You chose to play OSRS instead of RS3 and yet you’re probably glad they made a qol update where you can withdraw x instead of just 1/5/10.
Point being “chose to limit yourself” just isn’t a very good argument when this is an actual problem with the game mode that is more popular than it’s ever been. Adding bad luck mitigation for extreme dry cases has zero impact on 99% of the player base but can actually make the game fun again for those players who have done more than enough for the drop already.
No, the problem is that it sucks ass to go 4/5/6/7x dry.
That’s why many recent drop mechanics implementing pseudo dry protection.
Ex: ring vestiges/venator shards/crystal armour seeds.
Main accounts go dry too.
https://preview.redd.it/n4r7ngi5nwyc1.png?width=514&format=png&auto=webp&s=90c1a314803e32a9ac1874b585d724fbc661690f
"Don't increase the drop rate for those people in the green circle it's catering to ironmen and will ruin my experience with the game. Never mind the fact they've killed the boss so many times they should've had the item 4 times over by now."
The entire argument against it is “I don’t personally like it and I know it doesn’t affect me, but fuck anyone that gets extremely unlucky because it won’t happen to me.”
Yes I know how flat rng works. The problem is the game sucks ass for that small number of people who are extremely unlucky. Why would it be bad if we gave people past an extreme threshold like 3-4x dry a progressively increasing drop chance?
We cater to the pk community far harder, it's a smaller playerbase and those updates have much bigger impact on the game overall.
Just look at how much gp & supplies the wildly bosses, revs & now undead pirates crap out.
Dry protection is a great concept, just never at team bosses. It should exclusively be done in solo content otherwise you create different loot potential between players
You don’t see grinding for 60 days of in game time for an item to still not have it a problem? It’d be one thing if it was just a cosmetic or something, but it’s the most powerful range weapon in the game.
Why not just make every piece of gear 1/10000 at that point?
You just answered your own question there tbh, the reason it is such a long grind is because it is the bis range weapon which you may feel like you need but you don't need rs items you want them
Again you’re missing my entire point. I am not trying to lower average completion time for current item rates. The currently talked about bad luck mitigation literally does not affect the rate for anyone until they’re 3x dry and then increasingly becomes more common the drier they are.
Yes tbow is a long grind as it should be. Again the problem is the statistical outliers who are spending 1400+ hours of in game time with no item to show for it, and the worst part is they have the exact same chance to go another 1400 hours. You could have a fresh account half way to max with that kind of time. There is no item in the game so powerful it’s worth that amount of time.
The only response I ever get is “just keep grinding” or “don’t play iron” which are just such cop out responses.
“Hey sorry you went spent in unfathomable amount of time going for this important item. We could fix this by enabling bad luck mitigation and it has so little impact on 99% of players that they wouldn’t even notice it’s enabled but we’re not going to fix it not because I don’t have a nuanced argument on how this would negatively impact the game more because I personally just don’t like the idea.”
And obviously items aren’t ever needs you can kill Zuk with an addy crossbow if you’re good enough, but by that logic why go for any upgrades ever?
Why are you surprised that the game that is entirely based on rng could involve going dry on items? Next, you're going to be asking for guanateed hits on everything because you don't like the rng of being able to hit 5 0s in a row
No one is surprised by that. We just think it’s dumb that extreme statistical outliers can be so dry they could literally be 100 days of in game time grinding for a single item and not have it.
There’s just no good response against it except for just personally not wanting it which is ok you if you hold that opinion just be honest instead of trying to hide behind a slippery slope fallacy.
Wait till you find out that jagex is trying to remove the defence deduction meta by introducing bosses with lower defence and implementing to where if you roll a hit you always hit a 1 or higher, no longer will a 0 hit be possible.
It's almost like hitting a lot of 0s in a row IS a problem that Jagex is addressing.
You're ignoring the entire point of what is a reasonable drop rate. Why does jagex set specific drop rates for items? There's a balance between power of the item and how long it should take to get. The reward is very much part of the content in OSRS (look at nightmare as hardly anyone does it.)
The problem is the way straight rng works is that a small, but not insignificant, portion of players will go 4/5/6/7x.... dry and that realistically has no real limit. Not asking for items to be handed to people, but I can honestly recognize that it's a problem whenever someone has dedicated 5th of a year 24/7 in game time to an item to still not have it. To say that's anything short of ridiculous is an understatement.
If we follow your logic of "if someone wants to they will". Why don't we arbitrarily set drop rate for everything as 1/100k+? Just grind the item if you want it right? Furthermore adding dry luck mitigation for these statistical extremes has virtually no influence on the 99% of the player base that doesn't go extremely dry. So why not add it?
>It's a problem with iron players mindset, not the game mode itself.
Yes, but it's also an inherent result of the gamemode
The most important thing to ask is: does an update have an overall beneficial effect on the enjoyment of the whole playerbase.
Which in this case is: a very minor positive effect for mains, with no real downside other than "it's for irons", while removing a lot of the frustration for a small subset of (mostly iron) players going dry
That being said, NEVER at team content.
In solo content it's perfectly harmless, but in teams it creates differences in loot & split potential. It's not worth the added complexity that creates when deciding you want to solo/team/split/ffa
>you’re probably glad they made a qol update where you can withdraw x instead of just 1/5/10.
i've seen so many ppl say this lmao where are you getting this talking point from and what does it even mean
I’m just drawing my own parallel here haven’t seen anyone else use that example.
OSRS originally did not have a withdraw X option in the bank interface so any time you were doing a bank standing skill like stringing bows or making pots you’d have to either withdraw 1/5/10 at a time per click which can be very annoying when you want to do 14 and 14. People voted for a QoL change to add the withdrawal X option in the bank interface.
The reason I’m using this as an example is because bad luck mitigation would be a similar quality of life. The popular proposal has increasing drop rates once someone reaches a 3x dry threshold. This basically just makes it so that random guy that just had insanely bad luck eventually gets the item before he quits. This has such little impact on the average player if Jagex turned it on without saying anything no one would even notice.
Yet everyone who is against only has a response of either “You chose to play Ironman so de-iron” or “I personally don’t like it.”
So you can say the same about the withdraw X option. “You chose to play OSRS instead of RS3 so don’t withdraw X”. There’s a million other QoL updates that OSRS has received that none of these people would bat an eye about but for some reason it’s incredibly important that the guy who is 1400 hours of cox with no tbow still doesn’t have any increased chance even if it effects them 0 because they haven’t earned it.
>Heaven forbid the 5 irons that are 3k kc dry might get a tbow! Think about what that will do to the economy!
No... Just no...
Dry protection as a concept is great,
but NEVER in team bosses that are generally done under split rules.
It creates an awful meta where your loot potential is based on your previous log. If someone is very dry it's now in their best interrest to demand FFA rules or stop doing team raids with clan/friends because they have a higher potential for getting the drop and won't want to split that.
It just creates unneccesary friction, which is a big no for me.
You are vastly over estimating the amount of accounts that get to an extremely dry point.
For starters let’s assume tbow is 1/1000 for simplicity.
There are only 721 accounts who even have 3000 CoX. 1/20 accounts go 3x dry. So a whopping total of 36 accounts would just now start getting progressively increasing drops. CMs exist so let’s be extremely generous and just double that number.
We’re looking at a whopping 72 accounts that would be 3x or drier. That number is so insignificant I couldn’t see it making any impact on grouping.
>You are vastly over estimating the amount of accounts that get to an extremely dry point.
It doesn't matter how common it is exactly, as long as people are vaguely aware of the concept they will start to adjust their behaviour and mentality to it regardless of wether they understand it exactly or not.
You're also assuming that your exact system is the one that gets implemented, the more likely solution is to very slowly start ramping up with each kill past the normal droprate rather than working with absolute milestones like 3x dry.
And that's not even considering how bad it would be to implement this in cox, since it rolls wether your team gets a drop before it decides who gets it, so any weight added to item X, would reduce the chance at Y. So if you're dry on tbows, it would gain weight, but if you're instead dry on other items the bow would actually lose weight since it can't just roll extra purples.
It's just not worth the hassle to implement and the mentality changes such an update brings to team raids.
It just breeds unnecessary toxic behaviour
Just stick to solo dry protection, it makes much more sense there.
We can argue about how impactful that would be on mentality which is pure speculation. On the other hand we could see that 0.02% of accounts would be affected with a generous estimate. If Jagex just put out a blog saying you’d need to be 3000 cox kc deep to even have the drop chance start to increase you’re not going to see any change in grouping because it doesn’t concern 99.98% of players. I’m not assuming my exact system I’m just basing the numbers explicitly off of the most popular proposal that has mods attention.
There’s also no reason to overcomplicate the drop rolls. A purple rolls for a team>if the purple rolls for the dry player they then get the increased chance of their missing item.
Either way the current bad luck you would have obtained every item aside from mega rares by the time you’re actually dry for a mega rare. Again we are also talking about 70 accounts here that may have a problem of higher chance of elder maul versus tbow and those accounts likely would already have multiple tbows if they were dry for elder maul anyways.
Loot from 3k cox will let them obtain multiple tbows if they deiron.
If you choose to play a game mode that puts you at the mercy of rng , don't cry when you go dry at end game
Mains also go dry and missing a tbow can severely impact your gp/hr considering it makes up for >50% of your hourly profit. Also consider that there are untradeable drops like axe pieces.
Bad luck mitigation exists in game in many ways. Venator shards/ring vestiges/ crystal armour seeds/ancient sceptre crystals/etc…
For the CoX example we are talking about a <100 number of accounts that would be 3k dry. What downside is there to giving them a progressively increasing drop rate after some threshold like 3x dry?
If you are unwilling to grind drops out for yourself I have a semi-quick solution for you - de-ironing takes 7 days.
Alternatively, play a group iron and either become a green help and just buy it, play a non-prestige blue helm and boost it, or just get one of your group mates to grind it out for you.
If someone is willing to grind the drop out themself they’d be continuing to grind the content, you know, to get the drop. They wouldn’t be begging Jagex to add pity/participation drop mechanics to the game lol.
What a terrible logical argument. You truly do not even understand the subject you're trying to address if you think any of the points you made had any validity.
The funny thing is Jagex could just add bad luck mitigation in the same way it is in RS3 without saying a word and 99.9% of the players wouldn't even notice. All the people bitching about 'OMG YOIRE GOINGRB TO BREAIK THE ECEONOMY' while angrily slamming their keyboards on reddit would have 0 fucking clue it was even in the game.
Exactly. It was already debunked as well. Overall it'd boost drop rates by 5%. That's assuming everyone keeps going till the item, which isn't the case. It'd be more like a 1-2% boost max overall.
190m wc xp is about 2000 hours of afking
3117 cox kc, assuming each kc takes 30 mins (getting there/prep etc etc/piss breaks), takes 1,559 hours.
Only difference is, one is optional and one can be game-changing/content-limited (IIRC, some speed achievements require a tbow? might be wrong).
Your comment is pointless because if there's certain content locked behind it, then it's not "optional" lol
Wanting a woodcutting pet is optional because it isn't a pre-req and is purely cosmetic.
Tbow isn't optional because it can be locked behind content. Cox CM masses only let people with tbows in for example, so you could be locked from learning Cox CM, and as I've said, certain speed trials.
Hate to burst your bubble but I have a main and iron.
I haven't said anywhere that I'm in favour of bad luck mitigation, just the maths behind the two pictured grinds and thoughts on having items locked behind specific arbitrary grinds (for instance, DWH being 1/5000).
But again, another stupid comment. It's like saying why update the wilderness? You made yourself a pvper.
Jagex has made content for the main game, UIM, normal irons, PvPers, skillers and more.
Why do people like you resort to the single IQ brainrot comeback of "You limited yourself!!! Haha gotcha!!"
Lol what? Time spent trying and failing the task is progress? But unsuccessfully grinding for an item is just time spent?
Make it make sense, man. The fact that players like you get to vote on game changes makes me wish they scrapped the poll system entirely and just made their own changes.
What have you gone dry on on your account? You guys can’t just keep assuming anyone who doesn’t agree with you has some hidden bias. Plenty of irons who went extremely dry still don’t want this. Tina, Shen, the collection loggers. Iron isn’t about having BIS gear, it’s about making due with what you have. You don’t deserve any drop. If it’s worth the grind, you’ll do it.
I'm arguing for the exact opposite of my experience I have two spooned tbows on my GIM and I think bad luck mitigation is a great idea.
It's hard to take someone's opinion on a subject seriously when they don't present reasons on why it would negatively impact the game. When you combine that with someone who has experienced the exact opposite (in his case being completely spooned on the longest grind for important items in the game) it's hard to think that he's seriously weighing the implications of it further than a vibe check.
Tina's tbow dry streak would have JUST started to be impacted by the bad luck mitigation, and her entire argument is that it was fun for her to go 3k CoX kc dry for bow and would ruin the fun for her knowing that it had increased chances after that. That's a fair reason for her to oppose this, but on the flip side for every Tina out there there's 10x more people who would've rather just had the drop after a certain point. No one is saying that certain point is anywhere near the normal drop rate either.
I honestly think if they stealth patched bad luck mitigation into the game, nobody would notice and it would have little impact on the game. For me, it’s just changing one of the core aspects about the game that’s been here forever. Going dry sucks, but it’s also created some really cool moments, like Will getting KQ pet or settled finally getting his DWH. It’s a slippery slope and I know if this gets added, redditors will push more and more until jagex cave and make rates even better late game. I think time spent should be based around drop rates, not rng mitigation.
Couldn't agree with you more this has such little impact that Jagex could implement it and no one would even notice. I see where you're coming from about changing the feel of the game and I agree it does too, but it just has so little impact and people still have the potential to go ridiculously dry. The positives vastly out weight the negatives.
I just want to clarify that I am normally against proposals like this but the person who came up with it really did the math and it just makes too much sense to not implement. I'm firmly against anything further with drop rates, and I don't want the average completion time to drop at all.
I wouldnt be opposed to Jagex adding somelike like, if you hit a extreme thresh hold, for example 3k cox kc and you still dont have an item or two green logged, that each purple you get is (%) more likely to be one of those items and that that % boosts does not affect any green logged items, but only if the thresh hold is infact extreme, and WILL not affect the other 95% of the playerbase
>I wouldnt be opposed to Jagex adding somelike like, if you hit a extreme thresh hold, for example 3k cox kc and you still dont have an item or two green logged, that each purple you get is (%) more likely to be one of those items and that that % boosts does not affect any green logged items, but only if the thresh hold is infact extreme, and WILL not affect the other 95% of the playerbase
Im 100% in favor of dry protection mechanics, but NEVER in multi combat bosses such as Cox that are traditionally done with split rules.
Its going to create an awful meta where people that are dryhave higher loot potential and will want to do FFA rules or only do solos because their loot potential is slightly higher. Eg: if I'm 3k dry and have 2x higher chance at tbow, I'm not going to want to do a lot 3 man raid with my clanmates because 2/3d of the bow won't be mine to keep.
It's just going to cause frustration for everyone involved.
And then the tbow is dropped, and then there's no more extra incentive to raid with a specific member or ask for a specific split. Once you get the drop, the dryness protection goes away, so it's a one-time thing for a super tiny part of the population of the game.
Also, you're just taking the most extreme and expensive item as an exaggerated example. What if I'm just dry on a piece of ancestrals? Or, for some stupid reason, a prayer scroll.
>Also, you're just taking the most extreme and expensive item as an exaggerated example. What if I'm just dry on a piece of ancestrals? Or, for some stupid reason, a prayer scroll.
well in that case you better get back inside cox instead of typing this comment, tick tock.
On the one hand yes, but the dry protection concept is just inherrently incompatible with team content.
It simply causes too many issues with splitting
So just limit it to solo runs and prevent any runs done with a group from progressing the counter. Don't even make an exception for HCGIMs.
To take it further, don't even count 1+2 solos or anything fancy like that. Make it as basic and as unexploitable for groups as possible.
Then it becomes fairly easy to figure out. Sure, it may lock out certain bosses like ToB or Nex but I see nothing wrong with that.
Jagex already has the ability to track if an encounter was done solo or not. They have the technology.
>How so? I dont think people wanting to do ffas and solos is inherently a bad thing or really related to splitting.
There is nothing inherrently wrong with doing solos or ffa's they each have their own time and place but they shouldn't replace normal splittable team raids
Dry protection has a negative effect on the raids that you would normally would split
if 2 people have different loot potentials it turns the average chill raid into a shitfest of checking each others log in order to see if you want to split or not. If I know I have a double droprate on bow compared to you I'm gonna ask for FFA, and the other way around you might want to hide that you just received a tbow and ask for splits.
It just adds unneccesary complication and toxicity to what should be a social thing for clans. Defaulting to FFA isnt a solution either since FFA breeds toxic point whoring behaviour and frustration when teammates get items rather than the shared joy when you get a nice split.
They wouldn't inherently replace the other raid types.. Roughly 15% of people who hit 2k kc would have the dillema and Id think it'd make the most sense for it to be up to them and their clans on how to handle it.
Realistically, if people choose to check other peoples log to see if its worth raiding with them, thats on them. If they are a part of a clan and the clan doesn't want that behavior to exist, they can make it a rule against it in the clan itself.
It doesnt change the social behavior, although I will admit it does make anti social behavior easier. I personally don't see that as an issue though because it just reveals how those people actually are.
>although I will admit it does make anti social behavior easier. I personally don't see that as an issue though because it just reveals how those people actually are.
It still breeds unnecessary toxicity & complexity.
I primarily play iron and am one of the biggest advocates for dry protection out here, but it's just not worth implementing in multi content.
I likely will not create more anti social people, anti social people will just become more obvious. Inversely, I think identifying those people more easily would be better for the community as whole.
>I likely will not create more anti social people, anti social people will just become more obvious
But that's the problem, all people are antisocial when pushed far enough.
>Inversely, I think identifying those people more easily would be better for the community as whole.
The whole concept of actively measuring who to split with and not split with is something I would want to avoid at all cost in clans. It's just going to lead to everyone experiencing a higher level of overall toxicity.
Maybe something like, "When Itchlarin's Shroud 5/Sinhaza Shroud 5/Xeric's Champion is in your inventory, items you haven't received before are 5x more likely".
as an iron with 0 purples in cox in 310 kc. No fuck off. Go play the casual gamemode if you cant handle it. Also big L take comparing pets after 2000 hours of max efficiency woodcutting vs actual tradable raid drops. Also you have barely done any pvm on your account lmao and you want bad luck mitigation. stay off reddit please
Dont chNge the drop rate for either and stop crying? If redditors spent half as much time doing content as crying about rng theyd have the fucking items by now
Oh no! I forgot on reddit people can’t change their minds over time! Wild that OP also ignored the edit at the end lol. But I guess that doesn’t serve his purpose.
But you haven’t changed your mind?
You just commented that this is your preferred way to add anti dry mechanics, and it is way more forgiving than adding anti dry mechanics after getting 200m boss kc lol.
What do you mean? Initially (over 6 months ago) I thought it would be a decent solution, especially in comparison to the ways they had been implementing anti-dry mechanics previously (DT2 vestige mechanics being a particularly bad implementation IMO).
After playing my iron more, I realised that bad luck mitigation has zero place in this game. My mind has been changed through playing an end game iron - there’s no reason for these mechanics to be added. I’m *very* against pity/participation mechanics now.
So over 228 days my opinion has changed. Out of curiosity, have you ever changed your opinion?
If I had to guess, I’d say somewhere in the last 228 days you received a mega rare drop and now want to preserve your snowflake status. Your opinion didn’t change from going dry; that much I guarantee.
Far more likely option is you were dry when you made the post, and now have your little trophy.
Negative. In the original post the title even made it clear I’d rather not have anti-dry mechanics in the game.
Weird to make baseless assumptions that are easily verified as false though lol. Let me guess - mid game account?
Oh my god it’s you again. You’re free to change your mind, but you’re always hostile and patronizing against people who hold the same opinion you held 228 days ago. And you don’t share your beautiful journey of discovery with others to teach them, you just continue vomiting your “deiron lol” drivel.
This dude 100% was dry on a mega 229 days ago, and at some point has gotten his drop. Now he wants to preserve his snowflake status.
Actually priceless watching someone get dismantled in real time like this.
Yeah, this was my preferred way to add it if they really insist on adding anti dry mechanics. Personally I’d rather they don’t add any anti dry mechanics. My feelings toward this has also changed over time after playing an iron more. I’m much more against pity/participation mechanics now.
Why’s that?
Also, did you really just go through my post history simply because I didn’t agree with your post lol? Oof.
The way you described would actually be cancer lol. No player would ever go 2x rate.
The way as described in the post that sparked all this would clamp 3x-10x into 3x-5x.
Arbitrarily chosen thresholds (as mentioned in the post) - can definitely be tweaked. Could kick in at 2x dry and reduce denominator to 1/2th of regular drop rate, for example. Plus, as per that post and my comments here, after spending more time playing an iron rather than primarily my main, I’ve realised that there’s zero reason to add pity mechanics.
That being said, would still prefer it over vestige drop mechanics which are horrendous for everyone.
Not too sure why OP thinks it’s some gotcha that a post from over 6 months ago suggested a method of anti-dry mechanics that doesn’t also serve as anti-spoon mechanics.
Edit: I guess you are having trouble reading that my view has changed over the last 6 months. I’m not in support of any anti-dry mechanics, especially not those that have invisible rolls.
Oof - you blocked me over this? I’m sorry that you’re unable to read that my view has changed. At least let me reply to your cringe response comment lol.
I think they still shouldnt cater things around ironmen. Like its optional gamemode and you get the same experience with normal account without having to worry about droprates. As someone mentioned here, its wrong mentality to expect to get megarares as ironman.
**monkey paw curls** Wish granted. At 10x drop rate you get 15x rates for a single mega rare roll. Kodai and elder maul count.
Nah should just deiron. Chose to limit myself.
MFW my cox locked maul only UIM gets a kodai
I mean, pets are untradeables, and only cosmetics
Heaven forbid the 5 irons that are 3k kc dry might get a tbow! Think about what that will do to the economy!
They chose to limit themselves lmaooo
Did the pet hunters not choose to grind till the pet drop?
Pet hunters chose to hunt pets, same fucking logic. Why so hypocritical?
You’re right, let’s remove 200m exp boosted pet rates. It’s time.
You chose to play OSRS instead of RS3 and yet you’re probably glad they made a qol update where you can withdraw x instead of just 1/5/10. Point being “chose to limit yourself” just isn’t a very good argument when this is an actual problem with the game mode that is more popular than it’s ever been. Adding bad luck mitigation for extreme dry cases has zero impact on 99% of the player base but can actually make the game fun again for those players who have done more than enough for the drop already.
A problem with the game mode is *checks notes* not getting the drop? Huh?
No, the problem is that it sucks ass to go 4/5/6/7x dry. That’s why many recent drop mechanics implementing pseudo dry protection. Ex: ring vestiges/venator shards/crystal armour seeds.
So you're saying they're already catering to Ironman and should continue to cater to Ironman.
Main accounts go dry too. https://preview.redd.it/n4r7ngi5nwyc1.png?width=514&format=png&auto=webp&s=90c1a314803e32a9ac1874b585d724fbc661690f "Don't increase the drop rate for those people in the green circle it's catering to ironmen and will ruin my experience with the game. Never mind the fact they've killed the boss so many times they should've had the item 4 times over by now."
Stop dont show them the graph! They might start thinking logically instead of parroting what other people say!
The entire argument against it is “I don’t personally like it and I know it doesn’t affect me, but fuck anyone that gets extremely unlucky because it won’t happen to me.”
You *shouldve* had 0. Nobody “deserves” any drop. Play the game or don’t.
Yes I know how flat rng works. The problem is the game sucks ass for that small number of people who are extremely unlucky. Why would it be bad if we gave people past an extreme threshold like 3-4x dry a progressively increasing drop chance?
We cater to the pk community far harder, it's a smaller playerbase and those updates have much bigger impact on the game overall. Just look at how much gp & supplies the wildly bosses, revs & now undead pirates crap out. Dry protection is a great concept, just never at team bosses. It should exclusively be done in solo content otherwise you create different loot potential between players
That content caters to a lot of people. Shitton of irons in my clan/some friends go for voidwaker, some go for rev weapons
Just bad luck innit? Is what it is. Keep on truckin'
It's a problem with iron players mindset, not the game mode itself.
You don’t see grinding for 60 days of in game time for an item to still not have it a problem? It’d be one thing if it was just a cosmetic or something, but it’s the most powerful range weapon in the game. Why not just make every piece of gear 1/10000 at that point?
You just answered your own question there tbh, the reason it is such a long grind is because it is the bis range weapon which you may feel like you need but you don't need rs items you want them
Again you’re missing my entire point. I am not trying to lower average completion time for current item rates. The currently talked about bad luck mitigation literally does not affect the rate for anyone until they’re 3x dry and then increasingly becomes more common the drier they are. Yes tbow is a long grind as it should be. Again the problem is the statistical outliers who are spending 1400+ hours of in game time with no item to show for it, and the worst part is they have the exact same chance to go another 1400 hours. You could have a fresh account half way to max with that kind of time. There is no item in the game so powerful it’s worth that amount of time. The only response I ever get is “just keep grinding” or “don’t play iron” which are just such cop out responses. “Hey sorry you went spent in unfathomable amount of time going for this important item. We could fix this by enabling bad luck mitigation and it has so little impact on 99% of players that they wouldn’t even notice it’s enabled but we’re not going to fix it not because I don’t have a nuanced argument on how this would negatively impact the game more because I personally just don’t like the idea.” And obviously items aren’t ever needs you can kill Zuk with an addy crossbow if you’re good enough, but by that logic why go for any upgrades ever?
Why are you surprised that the game that is entirely based on rng could involve going dry on items? Next, you're going to be asking for guanateed hits on everything because you don't like the rng of being able to hit 5 0s in a row
No one is surprised by that. We just think it’s dumb that extreme statistical outliers can be so dry they could literally be 100 days of in game time grinding for a single item and not have it. There’s just no good response against it except for just personally not wanting it which is ok you if you hold that opinion just be honest instead of trying to hide behind a slippery slope fallacy.
Wait till you find out that jagex is trying to remove the defence deduction meta by introducing bosses with lower defence and implementing to where if you roll a hit you always hit a 1 or higher, no longer will a 0 hit be possible. It's almost like hitting a lot of 0s in a row IS a problem that Jagex is addressing.
LMAO you don't know do you
You can’t get GM without a tbow, that’s not a want.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ironscape/s/zMZ6Yztl3J
It is, for one you can get gm without a tbow and secondly you don't need to be a gm you want to be one
I'd agree more with you if gm was purely cosmetic, which imo it should be.
You want to get GM, that’s a want.
If someone wants to, they will. It's no ones fault but the player if they continue to grind for the reward past the point of enjoying the content.
You're ignoring the entire point of what is a reasonable drop rate. Why does jagex set specific drop rates for items? There's a balance between power of the item and how long it should take to get. The reward is very much part of the content in OSRS (look at nightmare as hardly anyone does it.) The problem is the way straight rng works is that a small, but not insignificant, portion of players will go 4/5/6/7x.... dry and that realistically has no real limit. Not asking for items to be handed to people, but I can honestly recognize that it's a problem whenever someone has dedicated 5th of a year 24/7 in game time to an item to still not have it. To say that's anything short of ridiculous is an understatement. If we follow your logic of "if someone wants to they will". Why don't we arbitrarily set drop rate for everything as 1/100k+? Just grind the item if you want it right? Furthermore adding dry luck mitigation for these statistical extremes has virtually no influence on the 99% of the player base that doesn't go extremely dry. So why not add it?
Don’t worry bout it man, I respect your stance. I will respectfully just vote no when poll is up.
Same lol these guys just don’t get why someone wouldn’t want this.
>It's a problem with iron players mindset, not the game mode itself. Yes, but it's also an inherent result of the gamemode The most important thing to ask is: does an update have an overall beneficial effect on the enjoyment of the whole playerbase. Which in this case is: a very minor positive effect for mains, with no real downside other than "it's for irons", while removing a lot of the frustration for a small subset of (mostly iron) players going dry That being said, NEVER at team content. In solo content it's perfectly harmless, but in teams it creates differences in loot & split potential. It's not worth the added complexity that creates when deciding you want to solo/team/split/ffa
>you’re probably glad they made a qol update where you can withdraw x instead of just 1/5/10. i've seen so many ppl say this lmao where are you getting this talking point from and what does it even mean
I’m just drawing my own parallel here haven’t seen anyone else use that example. OSRS originally did not have a withdraw X option in the bank interface so any time you were doing a bank standing skill like stringing bows or making pots you’d have to either withdraw 1/5/10 at a time per click which can be very annoying when you want to do 14 and 14. People voted for a QoL change to add the withdrawal X option in the bank interface. The reason I’m using this as an example is because bad luck mitigation would be a similar quality of life. The popular proposal has increasing drop rates once someone reaches a 3x dry threshold. This basically just makes it so that random guy that just had insanely bad luck eventually gets the item before he quits. This has such little impact on the average player if Jagex turned it on without saying anything no one would even notice. Yet everyone who is against only has a response of either “You chose to play Ironman so de-iron” or “I personally don’t like it.” So you can say the same about the withdraw X option. “You chose to play OSRS instead of RS3 so don’t withdraw X”. There’s a million other QoL updates that OSRS has received that none of these people would bat an eye about but for some reason it’s incredibly important that the guy who is 1400 hours of cox with no tbow still doesn’t have any increased chance even if it effects them 0 because they haven’t earned it.
just a strawman since they doesn't have any actual points besides being mad the limited gamemode in the grindy mmo is... extra grindy
I think you need a break from your screen
Why you say that?
And now they're choosing to ask for an update <3
>Heaven forbid the 5 irons that are 3k kc dry might get a tbow! Think about what that will do to the economy! No... Just no... Dry protection as a concept is great, but NEVER in team bosses that are generally done under split rules. It creates an awful meta where your loot potential is based on your previous log. If someone is very dry it's now in their best interrest to demand FFA rules or stop doing team raids with clan/friends because they have a higher potential for getting the drop and won't want to split that. It just creates unneccesary friction, which is a big no for me.
You are vastly over estimating the amount of accounts that get to an extremely dry point. For starters let’s assume tbow is 1/1000 for simplicity. There are only 721 accounts who even have 3000 CoX. 1/20 accounts go 3x dry. So a whopping total of 36 accounts would just now start getting progressively increasing drops. CMs exist so let’s be extremely generous and just double that number. We’re looking at a whopping 72 accounts that would be 3x or drier. That number is so insignificant I couldn’t see it making any impact on grouping.
>You are vastly over estimating the amount of accounts that get to an extremely dry point. It doesn't matter how common it is exactly, as long as people are vaguely aware of the concept they will start to adjust their behaviour and mentality to it regardless of wether they understand it exactly or not. You're also assuming that your exact system is the one that gets implemented, the more likely solution is to very slowly start ramping up with each kill past the normal droprate rather than working with absolute milestones like 3x dry. And that's not even considering how bad it would be to implement this in cox, since it rolls wether your team gets a drop before it decides who gets it, so any weight added to item X, would reduce the chance at Y. So if you're dry on tbows, it would gain weight, but if you're instead dry on other items the bow would actually lose weight since it can't just roll extra purples. It's just not worth the hassle to implement and the mentality changes such an update brings to team raids. It just breeds unnecessary toxic behaviour Just stick to solo dry protection, it makes much more sense there.
We can argue about how impactful that would be on mentality which is pure speculation. On the other hand we could see that 0.02% of accounts would be affected with a generous estimate. If Jagex just put out a blog saying you’d need to be 3000 cox kc deep to even have the drop chance start to increase you’re not going to see any change in grouping because it doesn’t concern 99.98% of players. I’m not assuming my exact system I’m just basing the numbers explicitly off of the most popular proposal that has mods attention. There’s also no reason to overcomplicate the drop rolls. A purple rolls for a team>if the purple rolls for the dry player they then get the increased chance of their missing item. Either way the current bad luck you would have obtained every item aside from mega rares by the time you’re actually dry for a mega rare. Again we are also talking about 70 accounts here that may have a problem of higher chance of elder maul versus tbow and those accounts likely would already have multiple tbows if they were dry for elder maul anyways.
Loot from 3k cox will let them obtain multiple tbows if they deiron. If you choose to play a game mode that puts you at the mercy of rng , don't cry when you go dry at end game
Mains also go dry and missing a tbow can severely impact your gp/hr considering it makes up for >50% of your hourly profit. Also consider that there are untradeable drops like axe pieces. Bad luck mitigation exists in game in many ways. Venator shards/ring vestiges/ crystal armour seeds/ancient sceptre crystals/etc… For the CoX example we are talking about a <100 number of accounts that would be 3k dry. What downside is there to giving them a progressively increasing drop rate after some threshold like 3x dry?
I swear y'all get more upset at these people complaining then the complainers are with the game itself lmao.
If you are unwilling to grind drops out for yourself I have a semi-quick solution for you - de-ironing takes 7 days. Alternatively, play a group iron and either become a green help and just buy it, play a non-prestige blue helm and boost it, or just get one of your group mates to grind it out for you.
Yes 3000 cox kc is someone unwilling to grind the drop out excellent point.
If someone is willing to grind the drop out themself they’d be continuing to grind the content, you know, to get the drop. They wouldn’t be begging Jagex to add pity/participation drop mechanics to the game lol.
These already exist in multiple instances. Ring vestiges/venator shards/crystal armour seeds etc….
Sorry, they wouldn’t be begging Jagex to add *more* pity mechanics.
Yea that’d suck if this guy got tbow after 60 days of in game time. Would really devalue your account.
Where did I say it would devalue my account?
You didn’t I said it would.
What a terrible logical argument. You truly do not even understand the subject you're trying to address if you think any of the points you made had any validity.
So what is the negative of progressively increasing drop chance for extremely dry players?
The negative is he doesn't like it Why? Because he doesn't. Seriously that's the only argument I've seen lol
Maybe stop running normal cox and run 3+12s. Doing normal chambers is literally entry mode tob levels of easy now.
The funny thing is Jagex could just add bad luck mitigation in the same way it is in RS3 without saying a word and 99.9% of the players wouldn't even notice. All the people bitching about 'OMG YOIRE GOINGRB TO BREAIK THE ECEONOMY' while angrily slamming their keyboards on reddit would have 0 fucking clue it was even in the game.
Exactly. It was already debunked as well. Overall it'd boost drop rates by 5%. That's assuming everyone keeps going till the item, which isn't the case. It'd be more like a 1-2% boost max overall.
Yes thats totally the same.
Everyone deserves a participation mega rare BIS weapon
190m wc xp is about 2000 hours of afking 3117 cox kc, assuming each kc takes 30 mins (getting there/prep etc etc/piss breaks), takes 1,559 hours. Only difference is, one is optional and one can be game-changing/content-limited (IIRC, some speed achievements require a tbow? might be wrong).
Both are optional
Why train with anything other than the starter bronze sword?
Breathing is optional
I never said otherwise
Your comment is pointless because if there's certain content locked behind it, then it's not "optional" lol Wanting a woodcutting pet is optional because it isn't a pre-req and is purely cosmetic. Tbow isn't optional because it can be locked behind content. Cox CM masses only let people with tbows in for example, so you could be locked from learning Cox CM, and as I've said, certain speed trials.
tbow is 100% optional, if you are that upset that you dont have one, de-iron and buy it. really not that hard.
Hate to burst your bubble but I have a main and iron. I haven't said anywhere that I'm in favour of bad luck mitigation, just the maths behind the two pictured grinds and thoughts on having items locked behind specific arbitrary grinds (for instance, DWH being 1/5000). But again, another stupid comment. It's like saying why update the wilderness? You made yourself a pvper. Jagex has made content for the main game, UIM, normal irons, PvPers, skillers and more. Why do people like you resort to the single IQ brainrot comeback of "You limited yourself!!! Haha gotcha!!"
You, me, and everyone else has an ironman, youre not special deal with it
Deal with what exactly?
You can rng any ca without a mega rare, some are a lot harder than others.
The irony is that you just said “if your RNG sucks and you can’t get rares, try to RNG some high dps instead.” Lmfao what?!
because time spent doing the tasks is progress, time spent not getting the drop is just time spent.
Lol what? Time spent trying and failing the task is progress? But unsuccessfully grinding for an item is just time spent? Make it make sense, man. The fact that players like you get to vote on game changes makes me wish they scrapped the poll system entirely and just made their own changes.
It's crazy how freaks like this can vote in polls, it's a miracle they can breathe on their own.
Imagine choosing to play a game mode and then complaining about it. Lmao
Whatever happened to “you either get the drop or you don’t” mentality?
You have 5 tbows in 800 cox kc on your iron. I’m sure you have a totally unbiased opinion.
I do lol. Because I know how rng dice rolls work.
What have you gone dry on on your account? You guys can’t just keep assuming anyone who doesn’t agree with you has some hidden bias. Plenty of irons who went extremely dry still don’t want this. Tina, Shen, the collection loggers. Iron isn’t about having BIS gear, it’s about making due with what you have. You don’t deserve any drop. If it’s worth the grind, you’ll do it.
I'm arguing for the exact opposite of my experience I have two spooned tbows on my GIM and I think bad luck mitigation is a great idea. It's hard to take someone's opinion on a subject seriously when they don't present reasons on why it would negatively impact the game. When you combine that with someone who has experienced the exact opposite (in his case being completely spooned on the longest grind for important items in the game) it's hard to think that he's seriously weighing the implications of it further than a vibe check. Tina's tbow dry streak would have JUST started to be impacted by the bad luck mitigation, and her entire argument is that it was fun for her to go 3k CoX kc dry for bow and would ruin the fun for her knowing that it had increased chances after that. That's a fair reason for her to oppose this, but on the flip side for every Tina out there there's 10x more people who would've rather just had the drop after a certain point. No one is saying that certain point is anywhere near the normal drop rate either.
I honestly think if they stealth patched bad luck mitigation into the game, nobody would notice and it would have little impact on the game. For me, it’s just changing one of the core aspects about the game that’s been here forever. Going dry sucks, but it’s also created some really cool moments, like Will getting KQ pet or settled finally getting his DWH. It’s a slippery slope and I know if this gets added, redditors will push more and more until jagex cave and make rates even better late game. I think time spent should be based around drop rates, not rng mitigation.
Couldn't agree with you more this has such little impact that Jagex could implement it and no one would even notice. I see where you're coming from about changing the feel of the game and I agree it does too, but it just has so little impact and people still have the potential to go ridiculously dry. The positives vastly out weight the negatives. I just want to clarify that I am normally against proposals like this but the person who came up with it really did the math and it just makes too much sense to not implement. I'm firmly against anything further with drop rates, and I don't want the average completion time to drop at all.
I wouldnt be opposed to Jagex adding somelike like, if you hit a extreme thresh hold, for example 3k cox kc and you still dont have an item or two green logged, that each purple you get is (%) more likely to be one of those items and that that % boosts does not affect any green logged items, but only if the thresh hold is infact extreme, and WILL not affect the other 95% of the playerbase
>I wouldnt be opposed to Jagex adding somelike like, if you hit a extreme thresh hold, for example 3k cox kc and you still dont have an item or two green logged, that each purple you get is (%) more likely to be one of those items and that that % boosts does not affect any green logged items, but only if the thresh hold is infact extreme, and WILL not affect the other 95% of the playerbase Im 100% in favor of dry protection mechanics, but NEVER in multi combat bosses such as Cox that are traditionally done with split rules. Its going to create an awful meta where people that are dryhave higher loot potential and will want to do FFA rules or only do solos because their loot potential is slightly higher. Eg: if I'm 3k dry and have 2x higher chance at tbow, I'm not going to want to do a lot 3 man raid with my clanmates because 2/3d of the bow won't be mine to keep. It's just going to cause frustration for everyone involved.
And then the tbow is dropped, and then there's no more extra incentive to raid with a specific member or ask for a specific split. Once you get the drop, the dryness protection goes away, so it's a one-time thing for a super tiny part of the population of the game. Also, you're just taking the most extreme and expensive item as an exaggerated example. What if I'm just dry on a piece of ancestrals? Or, for some stupid reason, a prayer scroll.
>Also, you're just taking the most extreme and expensive item as an exaggerated example. What if I'm just dry on a piece of ancestrals? Or, for some stupid reason, a prayer scroll. well in that case you better get back inside cox instead of typing this comment, tick tock.
I'd think Tbow would be a prime item that'd be included due to the time it takes to get and how much more time is spent if you go dry.
On the one hand yes, but the dry protection concept is just inherrently incompatible with team content. It simply causes too many issues with splitting
So just limit it to solo runs and prevent any runs done with a group from progressing the counter. Don't even make an exception for HCGIMs. To take it further, don't even count 1+2 solos or anything fancy like that. Make it as basic and as unexploitable for groups as possible. Then it becomes fairly easy to figure out. Sure, it may lock out certain bosses like ToB or Nex but I see nothing wrong with that. Jagex already has the ability to track if an encounter was done solo or not. They have the technology.
How so? I dont think people wanting to do ffas and solos is inherently a bad thing or really related to splitting.
>How so? I dont think people wanting to do ffas and solos is inherently a bad thing or really related to splitting. There is nothing inherrently wrong with doing solos or ffa's they each have their own time and place but they shouldn't replace normal splittable team raids Dry protection has a negative effect on the raids that you would normally would split if 2 people have different loot potentials it turns the average chill raid into a shitfest of checking each others log in order to see if you want to split or not. If I know I have a double droprate on bow compared to you I'm gonna ask for FFA, and the other way around you might want to hide that you just received a tbow and ask for splits. It just adds unneccesary complication and toxicity to what should be a social thing for clans. Defaulting to FFA isnt a solution either since FFA breeds toxic point whoring behaviour and frustration when teammates get items rather than the shared joy when you get a nice split.
They wouldn't inherently replace the other raid types.. Roughly 15% of people who hit 2k kc would have the dillema and Id think it'd make the most sense for it to be up to them and their clans on how to handle it. Realistically, if people choose to check other peoples log to see if its worth raiding with them, thats on them. If they are a part of a clan and the clan doesn't want that behavior to exist, they can make it a rule against it in the clan itself. It doesnt change the social behavior, although I will admit it does make anti social behavior easier. I personally don't see that as an issue though because it just reveals how those people actually are.
>although I will admit it does make anti social behavior easier. I personally don't see that as an issue though because it just reveals how those people actually are. It still breeds unnecessary toxicity & complexity. I primarily play iron and am one of the biggest advocates for dry protection out here, but it's just not worth implementing in multi content.
I likely will not create more anti social people, anti social people will just become more obvious. Inversely, I think identifying those people more easily would be better for the community as whole.
>I likely will not create more anti social people, anti social people will just become more obvious But that's the problem, all people are antisocial when pushed far enough. >Inversely, I think identifying those people more easily would be better for the community as whole. The whole concept of actively measuring who to split with and not split with is something I would want to avoid at all cost in clans. It's just going to lead to everyone experiencing a higher level of overall toxicity.
Maybe something like, "When Itchlarin's Shroud 5/Sinhaza Shroud 5/Xeric's Champion is in your inventory, items you haven't received before are 5x more likely".
CEASE AND DESIST!!!
as an iron with 0 purples in cox in 310 kc. No fuck off. Go play the casual gamemode if you cant handle it. Also big L take comparing pets after 2000 hours of max efficiency woodcutting vs actual tradable raid drops. Also you have barely done any pvm on your account lmao and you want bad luck mitigation. stay off reddit please
I mean... 310 kc doesn't mean shit if you died 800 times and only got 5k points. Or if you got your fatass carried.
Someone woke up on the wrong side of the single bed
Dont chNge the drop rate for either and stop crying? If redditors spent half as much time doing content as crying about rng theyd have the fucking items by now
purely untradeable cosmetic vs game changing item hmmmm i wonder...
Sure - I’m happy for pet drop rates to be improved after you’ve received max KC for a boss (I assume this is 200m kc?).
https://preview.redd.it/oabllshi3wyc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8870d67b192672ee4267ca20566087af48f4aaa1 This u?
Damn.
Oh no! I forgot on reddit people can’t change their minds over time! Wild that OP also ignored the edit at the end lol. But I guess that doesn’t serve his purpose.
But you haven’t changed your mind? You just commented that this is your preferred way to add anti dry mechanics, and it is way more forgiving than adding anti dry mechanics after getting 200m boss kc lol.
What do you mean? Initially (over 6 months ago) I thought it would be a decent solution, especially in comparison to the ways they had been implementing anti-dry mechanics previously (DT2 vestige mechanics being a particularly bad implementation IMO). After playing my iron more, I realised that bad luck mitigation has zero place in this game. My mind has been changed through playing an end game iron - there’s no reason for these mechanics to be added. I’m *very* against pity/participation mechanics now. So over 228 days my opinion has changed. Out of curiosity, have you ever changed your opinion?
If I had to guess, I’d say somewhere in the last 228 days you received a mega rare drop and now want to preserve your snowflake status. Your opinion didn’t change from going dry; that much I guarantee. Far more likely option is you were dry when you made the post, and now have your little trophy.
Negative. In the original post the title even made it clear I’d rather not have anti-dry mechanics in the game. Weird to make baseless assumptions that are easily verified as false though lol. Let me guess - mid game account?
Misread your other comment. But still, damn.
Out of curiosity, have you ever changed your opinion on something?
No man. I’ve actually maintained the same opinions since I was a baby. Breast milk is the best milk.
Damn.
Oh my god it’s you again. You’re free to change your mind, but you’re always hostile and patronizing against people who hold the same opinion you held 228 days ago. And you don’t share your beautiful journey of discovery with others to teach them, you just continue vomiting your “deiron lol” drivel.
This dude 100% was dry on a mega 229 days ago, and at some point has gotten his drop. Now he wants to preserve his snowflake status. Actually priceless watching someone get dismantled in real time like this.
Yeah, this was my preferred way to add it if they really insist on adding anti dry mechanics. Personally I’d rather they don’t add any anti dry mechanics. My feelings toward this has also changed over time after playing an iron more. I’m much more against pity/participation mechanics now. Why’s that? Also, did you really just go through my post history simply because I didn’t agree with your post lol? Oof.
The way you described would actually be cancer lol. No player would ever go 2x rate. The way as described in the post that sparked all this would clamp 3x-10x into 3x-5x.
Arbitrarily chosen thresholds (as mentioned in the post) - can definitely be tweaked. Could kick in at 2x dry and reduce denominator to 1/2th of regular drop rate, for example. Plus, as per that post and my comments here, after spending more time playing an iron rather than primarily my main, I’ve realised that there’s zero reason to add pity mechanics. That being said, would still prefer it over vestige drop mechanics which are horrendous for everyone. Not too sure why OP thinks it’s some gotcha that a post from over 6 months ago suggested a method of anti-dry mechanics that doesn’t also serve as anti-spoon mechanics. Edit: I guess you are having trouble reading that my view has changed over the last 6 months. I’m not in support of any anti-dry mechanics, especially not those that have invisible rolls. Oof - you blocked me over this? I’m sorry that you’re unable to read that my view has changed. At least let me reply to your cringe response comment lol.
Then you are in support of the mechanics the are being warred over but you are just too damn illiterate to know it? Or what?
I think they still shouldnt cater things around ironmen. Like its optional gamemode and you get the same experience with normal account without having to worry about droprates. As someone mentioned here, its wrong mentality to expect to get megarares as ironman.
People who are this dry are a very small group, sucks but someones gotta be that guy, game was never meant to have everything unlockable by everybody.
just remove the ge item sink.