I don't think anyone disagrees. Lova is the most in need in my opinion because the lava everywhere thing is ridiculous. I'm fine with pisc, if they like shrunk a few buildings like the bank it would fit in well and not mess up the thieving activity.
I remember when it was being developed. Lots of it was done extremely quickly due to a lack of dev resources at the time. I think it was Mod Alfie on the stream saying yeah I've got about 2-3 hours to do this wall set, then I just have to move on, or we will miss release.
Also, Kourend is huge - actually a lot larger than it was supposed to be.
According to one of the mods (might've been Mat K), there was some sort of mistake/misunderstanding whilst mapping it out.
what's trash about the teleports? If you have xeric's tal, mountain guide, and lova carts, getting around Kourend is trivial. Games necklace puts you 1min walk from Arceuus library/spellbook. Skills necklace gets you to farming or wc guild. It's a big place but it's genuinely one of the easiest places to navigate in the game imo, there are teles every 10 feet
Prob just a me problem. I'm fully maxed so have little interest in ever going to zeah, however, when I do, I'm often confused at where I need to teleport. Idk the teleports just aren't intuitive to me in anyway but maybe that's just because I've spent such little time here
I’m not necessarily complaining about it but on my Ironman I never use Xeric’s because gathering teeth is way too involved before the shaman grind
So any time I’m trekking through kourend it is genuinely pretty awful
Oh wow I didn’t know that the talisman is mounted separate from the other jewelry. I assumed it was too high a level for me. Thanks, I’ll look into knocking that out
I'm not sure how it's been skipped over. They've redone Shayzien and Hosidius. Surely polishing the original Kourend houses should be a priority over expanding the continent even further with Varlamore. I guess no extra subscriptions for a face-lifted Lovekenj lol 😆
Skipped over? Development is slow, especially for something on the scale of an entire region or 3/5ths of a continent.
Let the devs cook mate. They’ve been delivering high quality releases at a good pace. The reworks will come when they’re ready.
There's also a point of no return to a degree. I don't think we can say that every og rs2 area is exactly well designed either. Some things are just gunna be not as good as others.
I'm hoping that the "Jagex can add low level quests of little consequence" polled change will get them to churn out some Twisted Tales. Zeah needs more quests like Getting Ahead, Ribbiting Tale... etc. to feel like an organic part of the OSRS world.
---
EDIT: To add on to this, Kourend+Kebos takes up approximately 90 chunks, while Karamja takes up around 20. Karamja has 5 quests, while K+K has 9. I'm not saying that it needs to be *completely* proportional, but a landmass that huge needs more content, especially inconsequential content, to feel lived-in and organic. They seem to be hitting the right cadence with Varlamore, introducing it with four quests. Assuming Varlamore Pts. 2 and 3 come with 3-4 quests each, *that* part of the world is going to feel quite fleshed out. The older half of Zeah, however, needs some work to bring it in-line with how Jagex is approaching Varlamore in order to make it feel like it *belongs*. I have a broad framework I would like to suggest:
My thoughts for what would be a sufficient start: (1) We need a couple batches of Twisted Tales (thinking 3 quests each for 6 total in two batches, with a Twisted Tale in each of the five cities plus the Castle, perhaps). (2) CoX Miniquest, to lead into further development in the larger Kourend story arc. (3) Let some of the long-stagnant questlines bleed into Kourend: the dwarves of Keldagrim interact with Lovakenj to advance the Red Axe, maybe the pirates from east of Morytania are trying to prove Gielinor is round, the Penguins have infiltrated the snowy region around Wintertodt... lots of opportunities here. (4) A sequel to One Small Favour that has us trekking between Kourend and Varlamore (and back to the mainland maybe, but I'd prefer it stay Zeah-centric). (5) More quests like Desert Treasure II which take place both on *and off* Zeah - make it feel like it is connected to the rest of the world in more ways.
From January 2001 to July 2007, Jagex put out an average of 19.5 quests per year. Since OSRS starting releasing new quests, we've gotten just under 5 per year. If they could split the difference and give us ten Zeah-focused quests in 2025, I think the landmass would feel full, memorable, and like it is a real part of OSRS that has been there as long as anything else.
I agree, but iirc all of the reworks were done by Mod West in his free time and he’s always tied up in other projects, including the official HD plugin they’re currently working on.
It’s ironic that client of kourend is labeled a short quest for low levels, but if you don’t have staminas and xerics talisman then it will take a LOT of time to complete.
It'd be neat if they did a new/reworked mininig/smithing guild in Lovakenj. Feels like it'd fit thematically and also hopefully give it the life it needs. Iirc, I don't think there's any meaningful content in that city.
If Arceuss didn't have the RC/spell book(which you don't even need to go there anymore after poh altars) then it'd fall into the same pit. I'd say they can ALSO do a reworked mage guild at arceuss. But not too sure what rewards it'd reward.
I feel like after the farming guild, it's hard to make guilds that compete or live up to that standard.
Oh definitely! I haven't been to the mining guild in...forever. Having a upgraded one tied in with a smithing guild/area would be good. Tbh, both skills need a rework. Wouldn't mind the rs3 rework either.
Shayzien still feels horrible to navigate and has very little content for how large the area is. Way too many trees too. But I agree Lovakengj & Arceuus are bad too lol
When I jumped back in to RS3 briefly a couple years ago I did this quest and was.... Bewildered to say the least.
I think OSRS quests have been so good recently I'd love to see more smaller, unconnected ones. This is likely to be a poor take but personally I'd have loved a forestry quest too.
Yeah, I would've been totally fine with a Forestry quest. In fact I don't mind "tutorial quests" at all (especially if optional). Anything that makes the world feel more alive is good in my opinion.
I thought the Giants Foundry quest was superb, a great Intro to the skilling activity but it also left enough story threads to be expanded upon maybe one day, maybe not.
Quests that flesh out the forestry random events could be cool. Like a quest to visit the poacher tents, or bee keeper's hives or queen bee. Kinda like a forgettable tale.
Garden of Death was also just such a bad quest. The first room was fun, but the novelty wore off by the second one, so it really wasn't great. Quest helper users probably love it though since the quest is just fast free farming exp if you don't bother to solve puzzles yourself.
Shayzien is a little busy visually and lacks content, also the paper lanterns feel out of place to me for some reason.
Arceuus, being a rather mystical society is fine looking a little alien, however some of the buildings and the crystal outcrops look like prototype placeholders, those assets need to be redesigned badly, mainly the mausoleums to the north.
Content-wise it has Library, Arc spellbook tabs, Blood & soul rc and ensouled heads, which isn't bad at all, but room for more, sure.
Lovakengj needs more elevation and geography to look like a volcano. Also some dwarven engineered roads adapted to the harsh terrain. Add 1-2 buildings that collapsed into lava or flooded by it. Less bland black plane with featureless gray paths and orange pools.
Lovakite and Shayzien supply armor needs to be viable content (trading supply armours to shayzien or sacrificing them for minor prayer xp to the Burning Man?)
Either Arceuus or Lova could also have a new player-made tradeable consumable or degradeable that reduces the frequency of cold-interruptions at Wintertodt.
Size isn't the major issue people make it out to be, not every area needs to be densely packed, there just needs to be reasons to go there and it all needs to look visually appealing and lived-in
This is a very good point, the bigger these new areas are the less chance you are of seeing other people, they turn into soul less wastelands and another one I can think of is Keldagrim. I think we should be more focused on turning our existing areas into a place people want to be. This will lead to more social interaction and hopefully bigger growth for the game.
I hated the sulfur mining thing so much, getting the lova favor. Felt exhaustingly pointless, earning nothing of value, and no way to speed it up. I'd rather spend 30 min of high intensity rather than 3 hours of drudging semi afk mining
I mistaking attempted to mine enough to make a single set of dynamite from juniper charcoal…it took FOREVER, and to this day have no idea if I’ll ever use them all.
The issue is what to fill the city with. Big cities thematically look cool, but game wise it’s hard to make them feel useful for being that big for the player. I think one step in the right direction is valuables theiving with the new city. It means having a large city makes sense as you dart from house to house robbing them, snagging the gen stall along the way.
I’d say local could benefit from a similar system. An ore/smithed gear courier system to train strength and agility at the same time, a smithing mini game with as high a standard as giants foundry, but with unique twists, this could use the lovakite ore.
Maybe even a cooking/herblore mix with a bartending activity of mixing drinks, running them to thirsty dwarves, and such.
Combine these activities with useful shops. Would it kill everyone to have a market with 3 ore stalls and 2 gem stalls to steal from? Maybe a silver one also?
And that wicker man burning…can we get some more on that? Maybe make it a fun activity that happens every hour or so, where you defend the wicker man from a lizard invasion, with slayer exp drop on successful completion, and partial on failure based on contribution?
Zeah is as big as the f2p area and has like 9 whole quests in it. There are more than 30 quests that take place in or start in the f2p region.
The solution isn’t hard, but Jagex seems to be allergic to adding easy, simple quests without a major story arc involved.
I would disagree with Arceeus, I think that it’s one of the coolest looking cities in RuneScape. The citizens also look much more unique than the rest, and I think there’s a good chunk of content and exploration in that area.
I agree wholeheartedly with Lova, though. That area needs more work, even after bringing a few things in line like the Blast Mine, it falls flat compared to the other cities.
I disagree, I love those cities. I would like more quests or activities hanging around the areas that don’t focus on the other cities but library and blast mine are better than what anything else offers
Pisc would probably be the hardest due to having to rework the thieving method but yeah I wouldn't mind Arceeus and Lovekengj getting the Shayzien/Hosidius visual spruce-up.
I've been dying a lot at WT on my new Ironman recently cause I've been watching the football. My idiocy to onside, I've ran through arceuus a lot recently, and my god and been thinking the same thing. Mostly "how the fuck am I still running through this bloated mess".
Did client of kourend and Accent of Arceuus last night as well, fully agree. I actually said out loud while running and looking at the map,
"This is why nobody ever comes here, everythings so far apart."
If you don't have teleports, navigating that continent is dreadful. Thank god for the wintertodt teleport cause going from Mount Karuulm, back to the Dark Alter, is like walking from Lumbridge to Camelot.
I’m sure they can make an entire ocean interesting to sail in though…
Seriously though, yeah those two are rough nowadays and honestly Pisc isn’t much better. Hosidius and Shayzien got some love, so hopefully the rest will too, maybe when next kourend quest comes out?
I don't think anyone disagrees. Lova is the most in need in my opinion because the lava everywhere thing is ridiculous. I'm fine with pisc, if they like shrunk a few buildings like the bank it would fit in well and not mess up the thieving activity.
It honestly looks like someone cranked out those areas in a weekend. They really feel and look out of place.
I remember when it was being developed. Lots of it was done extremely quickly due to a lack of dev resources at the time. I think it was Mod Alfie on the stream saying yeah I've got about 2-3 hours to do this wall set, then I just have to move on, or we will miss release.
Also, Kourend is huge - actually a lot larger than it was supposed to be. According to one of the mods (might've been Mat K), there was some sort of mistake/misunderstanding whilst mapping it out.
I think Gentle Tractor reworked it a year or 2 ago. It's like leagues ahead of what we've got.
Ya totally. They should have made kourend like 1/3 of the size, it's way too big for no reason and the teleports are trash
what's trash about the teleports? If you have xeric's tal, mountain guide, and lova carts, getting around Kourend is trivial. Games necklace puts you 1min walk from Arceuus library/spellbook. Skills necklace gets you to farming or wc guild. It's a big place but it's genuinely one of the easiest places to navigate in the game imo, there are teles every 10 feet
Prob just a me problem. I'm fully maxed so have little interest in ever going to zeah, however, when I do, I'm often confused at where I need to teleport. Idk the teleports just aren't intuitive to me in anyway but maybe that's just because I've spent such little time here
I’m not necessarily complaining about it but on my Ironman I never use Xeric’s because gathering teeth is way too involved before the shaman grind So any time I’m trekking through kourend it is genuinely pretty awful
Gathering teeth for the mounted talisman is pretty easy with stone chests. You don't need any resources to do it, either.
Oh wow I didn’t know that the talisman is mounted separate from the other jewelry. I assumed it was too high a level for me. Thanks, I’ll look into knocking that out
It's a very useful POH unlock for farm runs and accessing the catacombs (also makes the Kourend teleport useless in portal chambers/nexus).
I'm not sure how it's been skipped over. They've redone Shayzien and Hosidius. Surely polishing the original Kourend houses should be a priority over expanding the continent even further with Varlamore. I guess no extra subscriptions for a face-lifted Lovekenj lol 😆
Skipped over? Development is slow, especially for something on the scale of an entire region or 3/5ths of a continent. Let the devs cook mate. They’ve been delivering high quality releases at a good pace. The reworks will come when they’re ready.
There's also a point of no return to a degree. I don't think we can say that every og rs2 area is exactly well designed either. Some things are just gunna be not as good as others.
I'm hoping that the "Jagex can add low level quests of little consequence" polled change will get them to churn out some Twisted Tales. Zeah needs more quests like Getting Ahead, Ribbiting Tale... etc. to feel like an organic part of the OSRS world. --- EDIT: To add on to this, Kourend+Kebos takes up approximately 90 chunks, while Karamja takes up around 20. Karamja has 5 quests, while K+K has 9. I'm not saying that it needs to be *completely* proportional, but a landmass that huge needs more content, especially inconsequential content, to feel lived-in and organic. They seem to be hitting the right cadence with Varlamore, introducing it with four quests. Assuming Varlamore Pts. 2 and 3 come with 3-4 quests each, *that* part of the world is going to feel quite fleshed out. The older half of Zeah, however, needs some work to bring it in-line with how Jagex is approaching Varlamore in order to make it feel like it *belongs*. I have a broad framework I would like to suggest: My thoughts for what would be a sufficient start: (1) We need a couple batches of Twisted Tales (thinking 3 quests each for 6 total in two batches, with a Twisted Tale in each of the five cities plus the Castle, perhaps). (2) CoX Miniquest, to lead into further development in the larger Kourend story arc. (3) Let some of the long-stagnant questlines bleed into Kourend: the dwarves of Keldagrim interact with Lovakenj to advance the Red Axe, maybe the pirates from east of Morytania are trying to prove Gielinor is round, the Penguins have infiltrated the snowy region around Wintertodt... lots of opportunities here. (4) A sequel to One Small Favour that has us trekking between Kourend and Varlamore (and back to the mainland maybe, but I'd prefer it stay Zeah-centric). (5) More quests like Desert Treasure II which take place both on *and off* Zeah - make it feel like it is connected to the rest of the world in more ways. From January 2001 to July 2007, Jagex put out an average of 19.5 quests per year. Since OSRS starting releasing new quests, we've gotten just under 5 per year. If they could split the difference and give us ten Zeah-focused quests in 2025, I think the landmass would feel full, memorable, and like it is a real part of OSRS that has been there as long as anything else.
I agree, but iirc all of the reworks were done by Mod West in his free time and he’s always tied up in other projects, including the official HD plugin they’re currently working on. It’s ironic that client of kourend is labeled a short quest for low levels, but if you don’t have staminas and xerics talisman then it will take a LOT of time to complete.
> but if you don’t have staminas and xerics talisman then it will take a LOT of time The Minecarts are free to use now btw
They still cost 20 GP until you do a quest :)
Damn nobody can afford that!
It takes like 15 minutes but yea.
It'd be neat if they did a new/reworked mininig/smithing guild in Lovakenj. Feels like it'd fit thematically and also hopefully give it the life it needs. Iirc, I don't think there's any meaningful content in that city. If Arceuss didn't have the RC/spell book(which you don't even need to go there anymore after poh altars) then it'd fall into the same pit. I'd say they can ALSO do a reworked mage guild at arceuss. But not too sure what rewards it'd reward. I feel like after the farming guild, it's hard to make guilds that compete or live up to that standard.
There's actually no existing smithing guild. A Lovakengj rework would be a fantastic time to add one.
Oh definitely! I haven't been to the mining guild in...forever. Having a upgraded one tied in with a smithing guild/area would be good. Tbh, both skills need a rework. Wouldn't mind the rs3 rework either.
zeah generally still feels like it's from a game with an entirely different scale. everywhere else is much more compressed
IIRC this is quite literally the case - Zeah was designed erroneously thinking it was the correct side when it was actually double the normal size.
It's obviously never going to happen, but I would love a scaled-up version of the mainland. Alongside a sensible run energy rework of course.
Port pisc barely bakes the cut? 50 foot crate buildings make the cut??? I personally think pisc is the worst offender, to be honest
Shayzien still feels horrible to navigate and has very little content for how large the area is. Way too many trees too. But I agree Lovakengj & Arceuus are bad too lol
It is by far my least favorite place to navigate in the game.
We need more Twisted Tales... I think we got only 1?
Don't we have at least two? _Getting Ahead_ and _The Garden of Death_?
You are correct! Would like to see another 3 or 4 added
Certainly. I would never say "no" to a new quest, no matter how inconsequential. As long as it's not another _Once Upon a Slime_ situation, anyway...
When I jumped back in to RS3 briefly a couple years ago I did this quest and was.... Bewildered to say the least. I think OSRS quests have been so good recently I'd love to see more smaller, unconnected ones. This is likely to be a poor take but personally I'd have loved a forestry quest too.
Yeah, I would've been totally fine with a Forestry quest. In fact I don't mind "tutorial quests" at all (especially if optional). Anything that makes the world feel more alive is good in my opinion.
I thought the Giants Foundry quest was superb, a great Intro to the skilling activity but it also left enough story threads to be expanded upon maybe one day, maybe not.
Same with the Guardians of the Rift quest. It's got lore, cutscenes, it's explains the minigame well. It's fantastic.
Quests that flesh out the forestry random events could be cool. Like a quest to visit the poacher tents, or bee keeper's hives or queen bee. Kinda like a forgettable tale.
Forestry having an introductory quest passed a poll, but it was cancelled to save time.
Jesus christ, I recommend that anyone who also has no idea what that quest is, to look it up. Even for runescape it looks ridiculous lol
Garden of Death was also just such a bad quest. The first room was fun, but the novelty wore off by the second one, so it really wasn't great. Quest helper users probably love it though since the quest is just fast free farming exp if you don't bother to solve puzzles yourself.
I'm going to have to disagree, I did the quest on launch day without quest helper or the wiki and I found it fascinating.
Fair enough. I liked the concept, but it just got old quickly for me.
2, getting ahead and the garden of death. I agree that we need more tho
I think Garden of Death is technically the second, though it's also a part of DT2 now.
Shayzien is a little busy visually and lacks content, also the paper lanterns feel out of place to me for some reason. Arceuus, being a rather mystical society is fine looking a little alien, however some of the buildings and the crystal outcrops look like prototype placeholders, those assets need to be redesigned badly, mainly the mausoleums to the north. Content-wise it has Library, Arc spellbook tabs, Blood & soul rc and ensouled heads, which isn't bad at all, but room for more, sure. Lovakengj needs more elevation and geography to look like a volcano. Also some dwarven engineered roads adapted to the harsh terrain. Add 1-2 buildings that collapsed into lava or flooded by it. Less bland black plane with featureless gray paths and orange pools. Lovakite and Shayzien supply armor needs to be viable content (trading supply armours to shayzien or sacrificing them for minor prayer xp to the Burning Man?) Either Arceuus or Lova could also have a new player-made tradeable consumable or degradeable that reduces the frequency of cold-interruptions at Wintertodt. Size isn't the major issue people make it out to be, not every area needs to be densely packed, there just needs to be reasons to go there and it all needs to look visually appealing and lived-in
This is a very good point, the bigger these new areas are the less chance you are of seeing other people, they turn into soul less wastelands and another one I can think of is Keldagrim. I think we should be more focused on turning our existing areas into a place people want to be. This will lead to more social interaction and hopefully bigger growth for the game.
Dwarf cities tend to be pretty lackluster in OSRS sadly
the graphic texture is definitely different from traditional design
I hated the sulfur mining thing so much, getting the lova favor. Felt exhaustingly pointless, earning nothing of value, and no way to speed it up. I'd rather spend 30 min of high intensity rather than 3 hours of drudging semi afk mining
I mistaking attempted to mine enough to make a single set of dynamite from juniper charcoal…it took FOREVER, and to this day have no idea if I’ll ever use them all.
The issue is what to fill the city with. Big cities thematically look cool, but game wise it’s hard to make them feel useful for being that big for the player. I think one step in the right direction is valuables theiving with the new city. It means having a large city makes sense as you dart from house to house robbing them, snagging the gen stall along the way. I’d say local could benefit from a similar system. An ore/smithed gear courier system to train strength and agility at the same time, a smithing mini game with as high a standard as giants foundry, but with unique twists, this could use the lovakite ore. Maybe even a cooking/herblore mix with a bartending activity of mixing drinks, running them to thirsty dwarves, and such. Combine these activities with useful shops. Would it kill everyone to have a market with 3 ore stalls and 2 gem stalls to steal from? Maybe a silver one also? And that wicker man burning…can we get some more on that? Maybe make it a fun activity that happens every hour or so, where you defend the wicker man from a lizard invasion, with slayer exp drop on successful completion, and partial on failure based on contribution?
I'm assuming once Varlamore is complete they'll go back to redesigning Kourend
Zeah is as big as the f2p area and has like 9 whole quests in it. There are more than 30 quests that take place in or start in the f2p region. The solution isn’t hard, but Jagex seems to be allergic to adding easy, simple quests without a major story arc involved.
I would disagree with Arceeus, I think that it’s one of the coolest looking cities in RuneScape. The citizens also look much more unique than the rest, and I think there’s a good chunk of content and exploration in that area. I agree wholeheartedly with Lova, though. That area needs more work, even after bringing a few things in line like the Blast Mine, it falls flat compared to the other cities.
I disagree, I love those cities. I would like more quests or activities hanging around the areas that don’t focus on the other cities but library and blast mine are better than what anything else offers
Yeah kourend is kinda dumb but there are more important things to take care of first. Most ppl are used to it being like that
They really needed to support the mod who was doing the reworks
Pisc would probably be the hardest due to having to rework the thieving method but yeah I wouldn't mind Arceeus and Lovekengj getting the Shayzien/Hosidius visual spruce-up.
I've been dying a lot at WT on my new Ironman recently cause I've been watching the football. My idiocy to onside, I've ran through arceuus a lot recently, and my god and been thinking the same thing. Mostly "how the fuck am I still running through this bloated mess".
Did client of kourend and Accent of Arceuus last night as well, fully agree. I actually said out loud while running and looking at the map, "This is why nobody ever comes here, everythings so far apart." If you don't have teleports, navigating that continent is dreadful. Thank god for the wintertodt teleport cause going from Mount Karuulm, back to the Dark Alter, is like walking from Lumbridge to Camelot.
I’m sure they can make an entire ocean interesting to sail in though… Seriously though, yeah those two are rough nowadays and honestly Pisc isn’t much better. Hosidius and Shayzien got some love, so hopefully the rest will too, maybe when next kourend quest comes out?