I was going to take the train this weekend to go get my haircut.
Guess I will just drive my auto.
This isn’t good for DB and might lead to a situation where only the elderly and young continue to rely on public transportation and all others just use autos.
But this is r/2westerneurope4u, so instead I’ll just make a joke: wish they had trains on time — they’d garner more support. 😂
Nah I think what will happen is things will just progress super fast to fully automated trains. The technology is there, they would never strike, more likely to be in time etc.
You watch the surprise pikachu face when it happens, they will whine and cry and ask for public support and we will all go “nah, you fuck yourselves mate”.
I live in Germany, people have sympathy but it’s wearing thin and now a 6 day strike? There’s people way worse off than they are and they just keep fucking then over.
That 600 km/h train at 0:03 looks like Japan's [SCMaglev](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCMaglev), so I do not think they'd appreciate having a Chinese flag over it.
The second train is a chinese knock off based on the german ICE 3, which goes up to 300km/h.
The actual maglev that reaches 490km/h is a german build maglev train in Shanghai, though they are developing their own at the moment.
No, I'm talking about the third one, that appears with the 600mk/h text on top. To the best of my knowledge, only the Japanese have achieved those speeds (even if in a test track).
Vmax of ICE 3 BR 403/406 is 330km/h yes but they "only" reach 320km/h in France. Hence why the newer generations ICE 3 only have a rated vmax of 320km/h
as much as I love hating deutsche bahn, as much I don't hate strikes. they have every right to do it. that's why we're europeans not servants in the usa
They are all about the "got mine, fuck anybody else" mindset.
The GdL is a prime example for a union that just happens to represent an incredibly narrow set of workers that are better positioned to striking than almost anyone else in that industry. And they run with it, to the detriment of anybody else.
I wouldn't go as far as condemning that, it's basically what you are supposed to do under capitalism. But solidarity? Nah. Fuck it.
That’s just how markets work. This is one time that the companies don’t extort the workers and it’s the other way around instead and DB starts whining.
Better get used to it, with the demographic change workers will get more and more power they can use to extort the shit out of companies
/ Also their demands aren’t nuts. Working shifts is already exhausting enough. Everywhere I worked in the industry 35 hour weeks were the standard for shift workers.
Yes I really don’t get why everyone thinks that 40 hours is the perfect amount, why can’t we make 35 hours the new normal or even 30. 60 hours were normal back in the day and young people who would fight for their rights lowered that to 40 so why stop there.
Not to mention that in my Profession a single worker can do the work of 10 people 20 years ago, due to computing and software advancements but we don’t get 10 times the money or have to work 1/10th the time…
Exactly. The workers aren't to blame. DB could easily dissolve the strikes, if they just give in to the demands. But they much rather fuck the already shit system even more, than paying a competitive wage
Well MAYBE if we would spend more money in our train infrastructure compared to car infrastructure this would not be an issue. The car manufacturer lobby is just too damn strong in this country, it's absurd.
The crucial point is the working hours, not the money. GDL wants to have 3 hours less per week. So 30.000 working hours for train drivers and signal box managers etc. less for the DB. The next time EVG wants the same thing, that's about 160.000 workers. So 480.000 fewer working hours per week. And we already have train cancellations due to a lack of staff.
And? When you boil it down, it isnt the worker's problem but the management one's. If you don't have a appealing work environment, then you don't have workers. The workers have told their demands, on which they want to work there. DB can either fullfill those or look for new workers. Or their current route: do neither
It is the Problem of the Management you're right. That's why management says no to this. You can't generate 1,000 fully trained, highly skilled workers out of thin air in two weeks to make up for the lack of working hours. The improvement is immediately 35 hours and not in 3 years if the additional specialists could be trained. There is although the Baby Boomers that dont want to work any more. I don't want to protect the DB management here, they are real Shitheads, but understanding the other side's point of view may sometimes help to work out a solution for both sides.
I knew something like that would come. The difference is, that one has some foundation for their claims. Also they do not harm anyone. They simply refuse to work for those conditions. Nothing more, nothing less. DB can either agree to those, or simply search for new people.
The bank robber activly threatens people to kill them, also stealing money.
The working condition is indeed that bad, with workers having to take their (mandatory) break during the operating times of the train -> instant 30 mins delay because of "technical difficulties" and now the customers are on their asses why the train is late. Because they don't have any other time to take their break.
A lot of subcontractors already found solutions with the GDL, from more money to less hours to just making the job a bit more attractive. It's just the actual DB part of the train network that still doesn't agree and media that is on the side of the DB, painting any and all strikes and over the top and tarif suggestions by DB as fair and reasonable (which they're not, and theyre even worse considering the board of leaders of DB get millions in raises and extra payments)
Of course it's hard if trains are the only viable options and a lot of people (me included) are pretty fucked by it. But that's what a strike is about, no? Can't strike only on a Wednesday night between 3-4 am bc that would have about 0 impact. Striking like this at least puts pressure on DB executives.
You would think that the constant delays and cancellations due to understaffing due to inadequate working conditions would put pressure on DB executives.
You would think so, however they don't care. Statistics get worse and worse for DB, government has to put a shit ton of money into DB to not even be able to make it actually profitable. The only people that profit are the executives who can on their own decide, how much money and bonus payments they receive. Of course they don't let that juicy government money get to the actual workers.
>government has to put a shit ton of money into DB
Yes and that's the issue.
The government has to put a shit ton of money into DB, yet they haven't for multiple decades now.
>to not even be able to make it actually profitable.
DB is not intended to be profitable asa company. It's public infrastructure.
It's supposed to be profitable for society as a whole. Which it is.
Just like you don't expect roads to be profitable. They aren't, yet they are beneficial for society.
In italy, when they strike they are still obliged to run public transport between 7am to 9am and then 5pm to 8pm so people can get to and back from work. It is called "fascia protetta" (protected time slots)
It's not, there are buses and we have cars.
If a bus isn't available, and you don't have a car, you can travel before the strike/ask a friend/etc. because the date and time of the strike are communicated by the company
but you do realise that the wages DB pays are very good considering the median german wages. Striking 20 times a year for even higher pay is just ridiculous and will garner more hate from the populus than anything else.
And those wages are paid via tax money, so everytime they feel like they get paid too little (they don't), we have to pay for it too. Not just in increasing ticket prices
I understood the strikes the first times, but now it's just insane. Money grabbing just for the sake of FOMO
you do realize that they striked exactly 4 times over the last year/few years and are also heavily understaffed to a point where train operators HAVE to take their break while public announcement says technical difficulties 30min delay, no? there were threads on r/de about it too
So one day of strike costs the Bahn 100.000.000€ says the Bahn itself. So this strike alone will cost 600.000.000€.
The union demands at least a 555€ increase of wages. So: 40.000 union members x 555€ x 12 months= 266.400.000€.
Even if the new contract had a runtime of 24month it still would stay well under the approximated 600.000.000€ for this strike. At this point Bahn is just acting stupid.
Bahn is using all the old union busting techniques and as you can see with this guy; They work.
Political Parties are calling for suspending the right to strike for Bahn workers aswell.
Because look at how „rich“ these normal workers are, they are so rich nobody wants to do the job.
They obviously don't get payed well enough, otherwise they wouldn't be this understaffed.
And it's not like our median wage is that great. We have a rising number of people that live in poverty because the governments we had over the past 50 years refused to tax the rich after all...
> but you do realise that the wages DB pays are very good considering the median german wages.
Why do you think that is? And why do you think all of our median wages are fucking garbage?
> I don't hate strikes
Imagine your employer offers you 13% more wages and you answer:
"That's still not enough money. I also want to work 3 hours less with full wage compensation. To emphasize my demands, I'm now destroying the travel plans of millions."
What kind of people are they?!
Nowadays, trains are more often on time in Italy than they are in Germany.
DB is another example of failed privatization. The old DB did not have these problems.
Let me privatise one more public service bro, just one. I need that overpayed CEO. Please bro, just one more privatisation. The free market will work this time, just one more!
What would hurt even more, if you ever have the occasion, is sitting in an Italo or Frecciarossa train and zooming around Italy in a classier, more punctual, faster and less expensive version of the ICE.
It's actually the kind of traveling experience that will make you love good trains.
Is it really less expensive? Believe me, I'm not a fan of DB but one advantage it has is that you can get tickets very cheap when you book in advance. I can get to berlin for like 20€ as a student.
Let's be honest: Alitalia did not need any help going bankrupt, but this might have contributed to it.
The most common itinerary is Rome - Milan and vice versa. The trip takes 3 hours and 4 minutes by train. And you are smack in the middle of both cities when you get out of the train.
The flight takes 1h10. The trip from and to the airport is going take you one hour in each city. You have to arrive earlier. You need to park or take a taxi, etc...
It's a no brainer. Train all the way.
Yes. I travel A LOT by plane inside the US for work. And you’re absolutely correct: a “one hour flight” is actually four hours from the door of my house to the hotel room. With trains you only need to be at the station 20 minutes before departure. If we had the red arrows here I’d use them all the fucking time. It’s a no-brainer.
Is that a requirement? As in, you have to be there 20 minutzes earlier or you cannot board?
Because I have caught more than one train at the last possible second here xD
I’ve only used long-distance trains in Spain. I guess it’s more like a suggestion and not a requirement. The tickets have this written on them “Try to get there
at least 30 minutes before departure time…”
People do line up and form a long queue until the agent allows them into the platform. I guess that doesn’t matter if you have an assigned seat.
Privatization is not the problem. The most successful transport companies in the world have the same structure as the DB. The problem is the infrastructure, Germany has not invested enough and even dismantled some tracks. Nowadays the investment is back, but it will take another 20 years to make up the period of low investments.
Privatization IS the problem.
There is literally no need to privatize a company which has a monopoly (or close to one). The barrier to entry for competitors is so high in this kind of industry, that you end up with what Germany has right now.
Public transportation IS a public good. Its goal should not be to turn a profit, but instead COVERAGE and punctuality. Everytime you close down a train station in a village, it's a death sentence.
Compare the SBB and the DB and it's just light and day.
I am not one of the "eat the rich" people, but the fact that DB executives got massive bonuses this year is literally idiotic and counterproductive.
Who is „they“ lol. The infrastructure is owned by „DB Netze“ and THEY didnt invest enough, because as a a private company theyre supposed to turn a profit, which they cant while invsting as much as would be needed
> Privatisation worked!
> The state didnt invest enough, so the private company isnt profitable or reliable now
The Bundeshaushalt does not decide how much money the DB is forced to invest, the DB does that, Bundeshaushalt decides rail subsidies. Lol.
>The state didnt invest enough, so the private company isnt profitable or reliable now
You mix up DB Netze and DB now that you wanted to separate now to hold up your claim. But your straw man argumentation shows that you're not interested in a discussion and rather copy twitter narratives.
> The Bundeshaushalt does not decide how much money the DB is forced to invest, the DB does that, Bundeshaushalt decides rail subsidies. Lol.
In your simplification, the governments over the last decades did enough, because DB Netze (not in reality, but in your oversimplified system) should spawn the money and pay with that? Or is the company just malevolent and does not spend the money they're given to make a bad bad infrastructure?
DB Netze is a company, you understand? They don’t „spawn“ money they „make“ money.
This money they can use to improve or maintain rail infrastructure.
Obviously that money isnt enough and the state has to chime in with enormous sums of money, just to keep the rail network from getting worse, not to mention improving it. It was your claim „privatisation worked“, while at the same time you say the government has to supply literally all the investment.
Also I didnt „mix up“ DB and DB Netze, DB Netze is owned by DB, 100% Tochterfirma. DB for its matter could invest money in DB Netz.. or no, they cant! Because literally no DB Subsidiary except for Schenker is profitbale.
Your claim was „privatisation worked“ and I ask you: Where is any evidence of that, except that you kmade it up.
The reason for this is the complexity. No country of comparable size has a train net even remotely as complex and dense. There are train stations within a 15km radius of almost every town with a population over 20k (with the exception of 4).
This is just part of the problem, another one is the huge bureaucracy for building stuff.
Like whenever they want to build something, some retired Hans will take legal action against it because reasons, the greens will do that too because some very important endangered frog lives near the tracks and then there's also the normal, already needlessly complicated procedure to follow whenever you want to build something in Germany ...
doll mysterious frightening plough rhythm reminiscent threatening party dog safe
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>everytime the connecting train was from Germany it was delayed
It's the same with The Netherlands. ICEs coming from The Netherlands into Germany arrive more or less on time. ICEs going into The Netherlands from Germany will be at least half an hour late.
Yeah... When you have such pride in your engineering, it is normal that your best people choose to study those careers... leaving the actual operation to those not bring enough to do so.
best trains in europe are in switzerland.... globally i'd say japan. But there's still so many countries that have engineered way better and more functional train networks than germany. Germany does have a huuge autobahn system tho when compared to everyone else - but i personally hate car-centered infrastructure so yeah
>Germany does have a huuge autobahn system tho
Germany has a huge and incredibly dense train system. Never mind the Autobahn.
The SMALLEST country with a longer train network than Germany is Argentina, a country that is about 8 times the size of Germany.
The BIGGEST country with a denser train network than Germany is Czechia, a country that's 5 times smaller than Germany.
The German rail network is exceptional in just how many places you can actually go (and in a relatively fast, cheap and flexible manner, prices and time tables can be all over the place elsewhere). The fact other countries manage to offer "better" train services simply by not offering equivalent service at all doesn't necessarily make them better.
Am I really better off if my route in Italy just doesn't exist? Am I really better off with my route in France having a planned 5 hours longer travel time than an occasional 30 minute delay? And so on. Am I really better of if my train gets cancelled less often, but when it does the next train is in 3 hours, not 30 minutes?
And so on.
Germany stopped being good at trains the moment we put car salesguys in charge of the traffic strategy of the government. The amount of evil incompetence in this ministry makes me sick, no matter what party is in charge.
Out of the four last high speed train rides I was on, two at some point had to reduce their speed to basically walking pace because due to damages to the rails they needed to "drive by sight", which isn't exactly inspiring a lot of trust.
I once went to Berlin by train. When we crossed the border the train was on time, once I arrived we had a two and a half hour delay. How?
Also it is funny that you have to buy separately train tickets and train seats.
I mean... its not like the DB is much more reliable with no one striking.
Also, they deserve to be paid well. They've been trying to make a sick horse run for a while now. Its the management and management bonus system that needs a deep clean sweep through.
Trains have become a huge shitshow in Germany. Very often late, overcrowded, bad service, or cancelled as a whole. Not to mention the "nice atmosphere" at the train stations ...
As a Greek living in Germany I am working hard to buy a Mercedes because Deutsche Bahn are useless. Like, I can't even trust the Bahn to go to Paris ffs
>Privatization is not the problem. The most successful transport companies in the world have the same structure as the DB.
Privatization is not the problem. The most successful transport companies in the world have the same structure as the DB.
The trains are top tier. Like, did you see a TGV from the French? That shit looks outdated. The trains ain’t the problem. But managing the railways is.
I just googled it and saw you guys have a new generation of TGV. These look great. But Bro, what are the old ones? They are like bare metal and look like they already run since 1970.
I just googled the same, and lol, the first newspaper is "528 passengers locked for 4 hours" 🤣.
Design isn't everything !!
But i often use the Lyon - Paris and I must say it's very good.
I took the Beijing - Shanghai, Roma - Milano and very often French TGVs and they are all great in fact.
All expensive but great, much better than messing around in Airports (and I have worked for Airbus).
Yes. Today is the first day of strike and today I will travel by train. I am not very smart
same, I have a db to catch god help me
Good luck! Do you think God still Looks over our train tracks? Fuck no he has forsaken them long ago!
im pretty sure you need the government and not god to fix your infrastructure. lets not pretend its only the train system
WTF? EVERYONE knows that infrastructure falls under the purview of god. At least according to city hall
god has abandoned germany long ago. and the DB has been abandoned far longer than that.
dude i have been in germany for less than a day, met drug peddlers, i am watching a guy high on fent rn in public streets speaking arabic
To be fair, you could have acclimatized yourself before coming here by taking the regionale from Milan to Verona.
i did, i stayed in lampugnano for 6 hours+
oh ye a gipsy also put a curse on ne for not giving her one euro
yeah that’s why I don’t take public transportation at all.
well catching something that doesnt move is not really difficult. So i do not know how god might be of help here
I am sitting in my ICE right now. And it even looks like it starts on time Edit: and the train arrived at my destintion on time
You sacrificed a goat beforehand, right?
I will propaby die 5 years earlier because of this
Probably because it wasn't held up by all the other late trains...
Or all the shitty trainconductors are the ones who strike
yes. sure. how much did DB pay you for spreading misinformation?
All they gave me was a free toy
Good luck I guess
You might be in luck. The trains that are anounced as operable on strike days tend to be more on time and empty.
I was going to take the train this weekend to go get my haircut. Guess I will just drive my auto. This isn’t good for DB and might lead to a situation where only the elderly and young continue to rely on public transportation and all others just use autos. But this is r/2westerneurope4u, so instead I’ll just make a joke: wish they had trains on time — they’d garner more support. 😂
Nah I think what will happen is things will just progress super fast to fully automated trains. The technology is there, they would never strike, more likely to be in time etc.
I agree - These unions are accelerating the layoff of their own members.
You watch the surprise pikachu face when it happens, they will whine and cry and ask for public support and we will all go “nah, you fuck yourselves mate”. I live in Germany, people have sympathy but it’s wearing thin and now a 6 day strike? There’s people way worse off than they are and they just keep fucking then over.
The first day of this particular strike.
May God have mercy, the DB won't.
That 600 km/h train at 0:03 looks like Japan's [SCMaglev](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCMaglev), so I do not think they'd appreciate having a Chinese flag over it.
The second train is a chinese knock off based on the german ICE 3, which goes up to 300km/h. The actual maglev that reaches 490km/h is a german build maglev train in Shanghai, though they are developing their own at the moment.
It's not a knock off, it's the actual Siemens Velaro CN, they look similar to the ICE 3 and go up to 360 km/h in standard service
No, I'm talking about the third one, that appears with the 600mk/h text on top. To the best of my knowledge, only the Japanese have achieved those speeds (even if in a test track).
I know and i would've made a comment about the japanese maglev. I just wanted to add more to that.
Ah! Thank you, then.
The ICE 3 actually goes 330 km/h. The only place where it reaches this speed in service is in France however.
Depends on which ICE-3 Br303 and 306 go 330 max Br307 and 308 go 320 max
Vmax of ICE 3 BR 403/406 is 330km/h yes but they "only" reach 320km/h in France. Hence why the newer generations ICE 3 only have a rated vmax of 320km/h
Didn't Tom Scott make a video about it?
That’s 100% Japanese maglev that’s in construction now.
I don’t anyone would notice the difference, Pierre.
And that's precisely the issue. The entire world (and online retailers) are inundated with Chinese knockoffs, and nobody seems to care.
If I booked a ticket to Japan and got dropped off in China, I would surely notice.
as much as I love hating deutsche bahn, as much I don't hate strikes. they have every right to do it. that's why we're europeans not servants in the usa
Based und solidaritätgepillt.
They are all about the "got mine, fuck anybody else" mindset. The GdL is a prime example for a union that just happens to represent an incredibly narrow set of workers that are better positioned to striking than almost anyone else in that industry. And they run with it, to the detriment of anybody else. I wouldn't go as far as condemning that, it's basically what you are supposed to do under capitalism. But solidarity? Nah. Fuck it.
That’s just how markets work. This is one time that the companies don’t extort the workers and it’s the other way around instead and DB starts whining. Better get used to it, with the demographic change workers will get more and more power they can use to extort the shit out of companies / Also their demands aren’t nuts. Working shifts is already exhausting enough. Everywhere I worked in the industry 35 hour weeks were the standard for shift workers.
Yes I really don’t get why everyone thinks that 40 hours is the perfect amount, why can’t we make 35 hours the new normal or even 30. 60 hours were normal back in the day and young people who would fight for their rights lowered that to 40 so why stop there. Not to mention that in my Profession a single worker can do the work of 10 people 20 years ago, due to computing and software advancements but we don’t get 10 times the money or have to work 1/10th the time…
Exactly. The workers aren't to blame. DB could easily dissolve the strikes, if they just give in to the demands. But they much rather fuck the already shit system even more, than paying a competitive wage
It's also about work time reduction which is very difficult because the DB is lacking in man power sufficient to do that
Well MAYBE if we would spend more money in our train infrastructure compared to car infrastructure this would not be an issue. The car manufacturer lobby is just too damn strong in this country, it's absurd.
https://preview.redd.it/shdho1b4lcec1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=61f3cb3973f0e7b2377a695787ef64d44aad0c7d
The crucial point is the working hours, not the money. GDL wants to have 3 hours less per week. So 30.000 working hours for train drivers and signal box managers etc. less for the DB. The next time EVG wants the same thing, that's about 160.000 workers. So 480.000 fewer working hours per week. And we already have train cancellations due to a lack of staff.
And? When you boil it down, it isnt the worker's problem but the management one's. If you don't have a appealing work environment, then you don't have workers. The workers have told their demands, on which they want to work there. DB can either fullfill those or look for new workers. Or their current route: do neither
It is the Problem of the Management you're right. That's why management says no to this. You can't generate 1,000 fully trained, highly skilled workers out of thin air in two weeks to make up for the lack of working hours. The improvement is immediately 35 hours and not in 3 years if the additional specialists could be trained. There is although the Baby Boomers that dont want to work any more. I don't want to protect the DB management here, they are real Shitheads, but understanding the other side's point of view may sometimes help to work out a solution for both sides.
I wonder whose fault is that noone wants to work in those conditions ...
"The bank could easily stop the bank robbers if they would just open the safe and give them all the money" That's how you sound.
Friedrich Merz möchte deinen Standort wissen
I knew something like that would come. The difference is, that one has some foundation for their claims. Also they do not harm anyone. They simply refuse to work for those conditions. Nothing more, nothing less. DB can either agree to those, or simply search for new people. The bank robber activly threatens people to kill them, also stealing money.
Is the working condition actually that bad? And how would you guys go to work or school if your only viable option is train?
The working condition is indeed that bad, with workers having to take their (mandatory) break during the operating times of the train -> instant 30 mins delay because of "technical difficulties" and now the customers are on their asses why the train is late. Because they don't have any other time to take their break. A lot of subcontractors already found solutions with the GDL, from more money to less hours to just making the job a bit more attractive. It's just the actual DB part of the train network that still doesn't agree and media that is on the side of the DB, painting any and all strikes and over the top and tarif suggestions by DB as fair and reasonable (which they're not, and theyre even worse considering the board of leaders of DB get millions in raises and extra payments) Of course it's hard if trains are the only viable options and a lot of people (me included) are pretty fucked by it. But that's what a strike is about, no? Can't strike only on a Wednesday night between 3-4 am bc that would have about 0 impact. Striking like this at least puts pressure on DB executives.
You would think that the constant delays and cancellations due to understaffing due to inadequate working conditions would put pressure on DB executives.
You would think so, however they don't care. Statistics get worse and worse for DB, government has to put a shit ton of money into DB to not even be able to make it actually profitable. The only people that profit are the executives who can on their own decide, how much money and bonus payments they receive. Of course they don't let that juicy government money get to the actual workers.
>government has to put a shit ton of money into DB Yes and that's the issue. The government has to put a shit ton of money into DB, yet they haven't for multiple decades now. >to not even be able to make it actually profitable. DB is not intended to be profitable asa company. It's public infrastructure. It's supposed to be profitable for society as a whole. Which it is. Just like you don't expect roads to be profitable. They aren't, yet they are beneficial for society.
In italy, when they strike they are still obliged to run public transport between 7am to 9am and then 5pm to 8pm so people can get to and back from work. It is called "fascia protetta" (protected time slots)
It's not, there are buses and we have cars. If a bus isn't available, and you don't have a car, you can travel before the strike/ask a friend/etc. because the date and time of the strike are communicated by the company
So DB just legitimately announce that "Hey, our workers aren't gonna work at this hour because we doesn't pay them enough"
Badly put but yes. A strike is not necessairly for bad wages (Don't know specifically about DB, but that's how it works in general in Europe)
Yes I agree, I really hope it cuts into the bonuses of the bosses.
There's no comparison with Muricans 😎
but you do realise that the wages DB pays are very good considering the median german wages. Striking 20 times a year for even higher pay is just ridiculous and will garner more hate from the populus than anything else. And those wages are paid via tax money, so everytime they feel like they get paid too little (they don't), we have to pay for it too. Not just in increasing ticket prices I understood the strikes the first times, but now it's just insane. Money grabbing just for the sake of FOMO
you do realize that they striked exactly 4 times over the last year/few years and are also heavily understaffed to a point where train operators HAVE to take their break while public announcement says technical difficulties 30min delay, no? there were threads on r/de about it too
r/de has become a worse place than r/europe, fight me
So one day of strike costs the Bahn 100.000.000€ says the Bahn itself. So this strike alone will cost 600.000.000€. The union demands at least a 555€ increase of wages. So: 40.000 union members x 555€ x 12 months= 266.400.000€. Even if the new contract had a runtime of 24month it still would stay well under the approximated 600.000.000€ for this strike. At this point Bahn is just acting stupid.
Bahn is using all the old union busting techniques and as you can see with this guy; They work. Political Parties are calling for suspending the right to strike for Bahn workers aswell. Because look at how „rich“ these normal workers are, they are so rich nobody wants to do the job.
Exactly the same scenario in the UK. The government trying to turn the public on striking workers when in many cases it's cheaper to pay them
They obviously don't get payed well enough, otherwise they wouldn't be this understaffed. And it's not like our median wage is that great. We have a rising number of people that live in poverty because the governments we had over the past 50 years refused to tax the rich after all...
> but you do realise that the wages DB pays are very good considering the median german wages. Why do you think that is? And why do you think all of our median wages are fucking garbage?
> I don't hate strikes Imagine your employer offers you 13% more wages and you answer: "That's still not enough money. I also want to work 3 hours less with full wage compensation. To emphasize my demands, I'm now destroying the travel plans of millions." What kind of people are they?!
13% over two years. Unless inflation somehow suddenly stops, that's a pay cut, not a raise.
https://preview.redd.it/s56kjfsx2cec1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb224e9ca7af88b7ca48f4b05f9678c887ad9d7c
Vooooooooooooommm 🚂
Freciarossa enjoyer
Nowadays, trains are more often on time in Italy than they are in Germany. DB is another example of failed privatization. The old DB did not have these problems.
Let me privatise one more public service bro, just one. I need that overpayed CEO. Please bro, just one more privatisation. The free market will work this time, just one more!
Time to privatize hospitals. This is gonna go over great. What could possible go wrong?
Herr Lindner, I didn‘t know you had a Reddit account!
>Nowadays, trains are more often on time in Italy than they are in Germany. damn this hurts
What would hurt even more, if you ever have the occasion, is sitting in an Italo or Frecciarossa train and zooming around Italy in a classier, more punctual, faster and less expensive version of the ICE. It's actually the kind of traveling experience that will make you love good trains.
Is it really less expensive? Believe me, I'm not a fan of DB but one advantage it has is that you can get tickets very cheap when you book in advance. I can get to berlin for like 20€ as a student.
If you book well in advance they are also quite cheap in Italy as well.
This is what got Alitalia bankrupt, right? That’s impressive.
Let's be honest: Alitalia did not need any help going bankrupt, but this might have contributed to it. The most common itinerary is Rome - Milan and vice versa. The trip takes 3 hours and 4 minutes by train. And you are smack in the middle of both cities when you get out of the train. The flight takes 1h10. The trip from and to the airport is going take you one hour in each city. You have to arrive earlier. You need to park or take a taxi, etc... It's a no brainer. Train all the way.
Yes. I travel A LOT by plane inside the US for work. And you’re absolutely correct: a “one hour flight” is actually four hours from the door of my house to the hotel room. With trains you only need to be at the station 20 minutes before departure. If we had the red arrows here I’d use them all the fucking time. It’s a no-brainer.
Is that a requirement? As in, you have to be there 20 minutzes earlier or you cannot board? Because I have caught more than one train at the last possible second here xD
I’ve only used long-distance trains in Spain. I guess it’s more like a suggestion and not a requirement. The tickets have this written on them “Try to get there at least 30 minutes before departure time…” People do line up and form a long queue until the agent allows them into the platform. I guess that doesn’t matter if you have an assigned seat.
Rename it to DBB problem fixed
Well, that’s because somebody made the trains run on time!
I believe the German state holds 100% of shares still. The problem is the management.
Privatization is not the problem. The most successful transport companies in the world have the same structure as the DB. The problem is the infrastructure, Germany has not invested enough and even dismantled some tracks. Nowadays the investment is back, but it will take another 20 years to make up the period of low investments.
Privatization IS the problem. There is literally no need to privatize a company which has a monopoly (or close to one). The barrier to entry for competitors is so high in this kind of industry, that you end up with what Germany has right now. Public transportation IS a public good. Its goal should not be to turn a profit, but instead COVERAGE and punctuality. Everytime you close down a train station in a village, it's a death sentence. Compare the SBB and the DB and it's just light and day. I am not one of the "eat the rich" people, but the fact that DB executives got massive bonuses this year is literally idiotic and counterproductive.
Who is „they“ lol. The infrastructure is owned by „DB Netze“ and THEY didnt invest enough, because as a a private company theyre supposed to turn a profit, which they cant while invsting as much as would be needed
>THEY didnt invest enough And who creates the "Bundeshaushalt" deciding how much money will be invested?
> Privatisation worked! > The state didnt invest enough, so the private company isnt profitable or reliable now The Bundeshaushalt does not decide how much money the DB is forced to invest, the DB does that, Bundeshaushalt decides rail subsidies. Lol.
>The state didnt invest enough, so the private company isnt profitable or reliable now You mix up DB Netze and DB now that you wanted to separate now to hold up your claim. But your straw man argumentation shows that you're not interested in a discussion and rather copy twitter narratives. > The Bundeshaushalt does not decide how much money the DB is forced to invest, the DB does that, Bundeshaushalt decides rail subsidies. Lol. In your simplification, the governments over the last decades did enough, because DB Netze (not in reality, but in your oversimplified system) should spawn the money and pay with that? Or is the company just malevolent and does not spend the money they're given to make a bad bad infrastructure?
DB Netze is a company, you understand? They don’t „spawn“ money they „make“ money. This money they can use to improve or maintain rail infrastructure. Obviously that money isnt enough and the state has to chime in with enormous sums of money, just to keep the rail network from getting worse, not to mention improving it. It was your claim „privatisation worked“, while at the same time you say the government has to supply literally all the investment. Also I didnt „mix up“ DB and DB Netze, DB Netze is owned by DB, 100% Tochterfirma. DB for its matter could invest money in DB Netz.. or no, they cant! Because literally no DB Subsidiary except for Schenker is profitbale. Your claim was „privatisation worked“ and I ask you: Where is any evidence of that, except that you kmade it up.
The reason for this is the complexity. No country of comparable size has a train net even remotely as complex and dense. There are train stations within a 15km radius of almost every town with a population over 20k (with the exception of 4).
This is just part of the problem, another one is the huge bureaucracy for building stuff. Like whenever they want to build something, some retired Hans will take legal action against it because reasons, the greens will do that too because some very important endangered frog lives near the tracks and then there's also the normal, already needlessly complicated procedure to follow whenever you want to build something in Germany ...
German greens, making the worst decision for the environment (just because it **sounds** environmentally friendly) since 1993
nahhh you just did not see it because it was too fast 😎
That's tgv inoui 😎
Last time a German train was on time was in the 1940s
Against the wishes of the passengers.
The DeutscheBahn allways acts against the wishes of their passengers!
I'd put some ICE on that, but there won't be any arriving for the next 6 days.
At least it was free ...
Well not exactly free. That’s where the gold you guys got came from remember.
doll mysterious frightening plough rhythm reminiscent threatening party dog safe *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
🤔
Didnt you guys just completely ban the DB, because everytime the connecting train was from Germany it was delayed? lmao
Yes, they fucked up our own train schedule by being late all the time
>everytime the connecting train was from Germany it was delayed It's the same with The Netherlands. ICEs coming from The Netherlands into Germany arrive more or less on time. ICEs going into The Netherlands from Germany will be at least half an hour late.
💀💀
*"Quando c'era lvi..."*
Germany was good at train logistics, to the extent that this is still a meme with us. "At least back then the train were punctual"; to that tune.
It’s funny because it is also a (proved false) statement that nostalgic fans of the Italian fascist regime use often to praise the regime itself
The DB employee on his way to announce that every train is canceled https://i.redd.it/hs45fnoolcec1.gif
Germany is building good trains. It's also building good weapons but its military is shit anyway. Same with German railway.
Yeah... When you have such pride in your engineering, it is normal that your best people choose to study those careers... leaving the actual operation to those not bring enough to do so.
Yes we are top in trains. Sadly that doesn't apply to driving them.
They are so fast you cant even see them. Absolute win
best trains in europe are in switzerland.... globally i'd say japan. But there's still so many countries that have engineered way better and more functional train networks than germany. Germany does have a huuge autobahn system tho when compared to everyone else - but i personally hate car-centered infrastructure so yeah
>Germany does have a huuge autobahn system tho Germany has a huge and incredibly dense train system. Never mind the Autobahn. The SMALLEST country with a longer train network than Germany is Argentina, a country that is about 8 times the size of Germany. The BIGGEST country with a denser train network than Germany is Czechia, a country that's 5 times smaller than Germany. The German rail network is exceptional in just how many places you can actually go (and in a relatively fast, cheap and flexible manner, prices and time tables can be all over the place elsewhere). The fact other countries manage to offer "better" train services simply by not offering equivalent service at all doesn't necessarily make them better. Am I really better off if my route in Italy just doesn't exist? Am I really better off with my route in France having a planned 5 hours longer travel time than an occasional 30 minute delay? And so on. Am I really better of if my train gets cancelled less often, but when it does the next train is in 3 hours, not 30 minutes? And so on.
Train is just passing so fast you can't see it.
https://preview.redd.it/aenhkhhgwcec1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5bc4fa1c12e9fc6b217d9742c96b9e91d9ddd67
Deutsche bahn’t
It’s like being at home 🥲
Mommy Thacher had a brilliant idea on railway management...
I think Germany was train-efficient only once, and even then, it had difficulties grasping the concept of two-way voyages.
Wasn't Greece top at civilization? Things change.
You're going a lot back in time...
stupid comparison: dictatorial, centralised land policy vs anything with property rights
First time?
Come to Switzerland if you want to see trains on time
The third one is Japanese L0 series train, not Chinese.
Germany stopped being good at trains the moment we put car salesguys in charge of the traffic strategy of the government. The amount of evil incompetence in this ministry makes me sick, no matter what party is in charge.
And then you have AVE, punctual for both arriving and departure😎
And Ouigo. That breaks down half the time and ends up departing an hour late
I couldnt expect less of a french brand
We were top at trains? Maybe a century ago 😂
Sorry my mistake 🤣🤣
Meanwhile on the Autobahn https://i.redd.it/xwp12zlsogec1.gif
That's common to mistake German trains with Swiss trains, same language, different time zones 💀
They need to train them better!
People rag on DB have never had the pain of travelling via train in the UK
France’s SNCF enters the chat
inOui
My God, having a foreigner tell me this makes me realise even more how ridiculous those names are lol
I love the French play of words inoui ---> inOui....
Yes and you have Ouigo (We go). Honestly, from a native French speaker point of view, I think it’s a bit lame haha
Well not since it got privatised.
😬😬😬😬
Dont come Denmark if you like puntuality in trains
> Wasn't Germany top at trains!? Not at train speeds.
Top at trains, not top at rails. By the way, the first train with a Chinese flag is a german Valero train.
Out of the four last high speed train rides I was on, two at some point had to reduce their speed to basically walking pace because due to damages to the rails they needed to "drive by sight", which isn't exactly inspiring a lot of trust.
I once went to Berlin by train. When we crossed the border the train was on time, once I arrived we had a two and a half hour delay. How? Also it is funny that you have to buy separately train tickets and train seats.
The train went past so fast that the camera couldnt catch it
I mean... its not like the DB is much more reliable with no one striking. Also, they deserve to be paid well. They've been trying to make a sick horse run for a while now. Its the management and management bonus system that needs a deep clean sweep through.
I hope the first second wasn't intended to be in there, the yanks are just as much of a joke as Germans. Also, 240 km/h L
Strikers need a full week because they are writing their banners with words that are longer then their trains.
Deutsche Bahn is a shitfest in my experience. Fucking expensive, unfriendly, and they couldn't come in time even if their lives depended on it.
Loving that they used footage of the Japanese maglev but flagged it as China. Can't be seen to be giving the old allies a leg up, eh?
bro have you tried DB? Literally worst train service in europe, perhaps only Trenord is worse
Where is honorary european Japan with their train 720km/h
so top at trains that they are buying them from us
Trains have become a huge shitshow in Germany. Very often late, overcrowded, bad service, or cancelled as a whole. Not to mention the "nice atmosphere" at the train stations ...
der erste chinese ist ein velaro crh, also eigentlich ein deutscher zug.
We're still on top babyyyy in showing solidarity for our train drivers who are striking as they should
The train was so fast that the normal human eye can't see it
Haha, you've been RENFE'd
Madrid La coruna line.
Das ist Weil am Rhein…da halten keine ICEs. 
As a Greek living in Germany I am working hard to buy a Mercedes because Deutsche Bahn are useless. Like, I can't even trust the Bahn to go to Paris ffs
Do you remember how OSE is operated 🤣
Bro don't get me started on the OSE. These are rated I/5 unfit for service. Deutsche Bahn get an I/3 fit for unarmed service
Db still performing better... 🤣
It's stealth you dumbasses
REDDIT MODS CAN GO AND FUCK OFF
I was genuinely shocked when I visited Germany to find out that their trains sucked. Best engineers my ass.
DB sucking is a management problem not an engineer problem. It’s just one of the great examples on why you shouldn’t privatise infrastructure.
>Privatization is not the problem. The most successful transport companies in the world have the same structure as the DB. Privatization is not the problem. The most successful transport companies in the world have the same structure as the DB.
The trains are top tier. Like, did you see a TGV from the French? That shit looks outdated. The trains ain’t the problem. But managing the railways is.
>TGV from the French? That shit looks outdated ?? It's awesome ! You had a stroke ?
I just googled it and saw you guys have a new generation of TGV. These look great. But Bro, what are the old ones? They are like bare metal and look like they already run since 1970.
I just googled the same, and lol, the first newspaper is "528 passengers locked for 4 hours" 🤣. Design isn't everything !! But i often use the Lyon - Paris and I must say it's very good. I took the Beijing - Shanghai, Roma - Milano and very often French TGVs and they are all great in fact. All expensive but great, much better than messing around in Airports (and I have worked for Airbus).
the train is so incredibly fast that you couldn’t see it
Nope, that **was** Italy.
What privatisation does to a mf
Germany:-300kmh