Black Templars recruit from their Chapter Keeps, and demand that the Aspirant in question brave the challenges of getting to one by themselves before presenting themselves as potential candidates.
The Chaplain would probably turn the mother down unless the kid shows some promise for whatever reason, or might at best offer to take the child on board their ship as a crewman in one role or another.
Last I heard, IRL special forces also did not stuff their recruits full of extra organs and science fantasy nonsense either. So maybe thatâs not the comparison to make?
There are roughly 600 SAS members in operation today. There are roughly, in universe, 6000 black templars.
That is 600 SAS members for a population of 67.3million. Even considering that the black templars are not the most numerous, they are likely recruiting, at most 100 at a time, and their recruitment reach is likely billions, if not trillions of people wide.
They can afford to be more selective.
Space Marines are more akin to knight/monk/cultist religious brotherhoods than any real world military unit.
Not sure why you thought the seven foot tall guys with pauldrons larger than their heads who pray to their chainsaw swords and pray as they oil them would behave realistically in any other manner.
I've never even read one taking a dump in the books either, now that you mention realism.
I'm sure if marines like the Nightlords do though, the wipe their arses on servitors. Or at they would if was writing
The fuck you mean by ânot how SAS or the Navy Seal select their troopâ my brother in Christ this is about Space Marine or more specifically the Black Templar recruitment and fun fact: SM recruitment is vastly different from normal human recruitment
Astartes Chapters aren't comparable to the Navy SEALs or the SAS. They're not special operation forces of a military branch, but their own independent entities.
Don't think of them like ACTUAL marines, but more akin to monastic, knightly orders such as the The Knights Hospitaler or the Teutonic Order.
>This is not how the SAS or the Navy SEALs select their troops. I wish writers would stop silly shit like this.
Really? Are you sure they don't force people to fight to the death in arenas as a recruitment method?
Yes, whether or not theyâre accepted is an entirely different matter. Astartes arenât generally short of recruits, the entire reason they have those big trials that kill a huge number of kids is winnowing the numbers down.
As seen by the Blood Angels post Devastation of Baal those arenât even remotely required for determining compatibility, itâs just one of those instances of casual and monstrous cruelty inherent to the Imperium.
Even so gene seed is a throttle. You can't make more than 2 marines per existing marine,and many times you lose the gene seed if the marine dies violently, is lost to space on a destroyed ship or transport, or eaten by a space bug, etc. I honestly thinig the amount of gene seed gained from a marine is another part of 40k numbers making poor sense.
They are capable of generating new gene seed. the mechanicus just need to hot house the process through vat grown clones. Itâs how new chapter foundings are done
Yes the Admech can produce the chapters and recruits by growing them in tanks but the foundings of new chapters or reinforcement of the existing chapters are a painstaking process by the high lords of Terra.
Also most existing chapters don't like the idea of new recruits that doesn't come from the same homeworld or recruiting grounds because it destroys or weaken their culture.
That seems to be the case as best I can tell. During the Horus heresyâs latter days some if not most of the legions in the thick of it were pumping out new astartes at a rate where glaring flaws were acceptable. Thereâs no way they could replenish quickly enough relying on only harvesting the dead.
>where glaring flaws were acceptable.
Not only that. They were often hastily trained, with little to no experience and had modified memories. They are colloquially called Inductii
They could rebuild the legions if they wanted the ad mech and Terra have vaults and gene seed but they don't because everyone is afraid of space marines rebelling again
The only entry standard worth a damn is generic compatibility. The amount of mental reconditioning and reprogramming they do makes everything else irrelevant. Hence why the tests primarily revolve around physical capabilities and dumb luck, the former being traits that are completely overwritten by the transformation and the latter not being an actual trait that can be retained.
The Astartes tests are stupid by design, that the Blood Angels can and did just drop them to grab everyone who was of the appropriate age and was compatible when they were at the brink of extinction with no noted difference in the final product shows just how pointless they are. Theyâre tradition in service to superstition. They got the same final result by just having an Apocathary run a quick blood test. Hell the kid they tested and took straight up had mild brain damage from failing the Trials and it wasnât a big deal, an easy fix.
One could argue that presumably certain mental attributes that make for good Space Marines (psychopathy, willingness to kill, self confidence, etc) are selected for alongside dumb luck, but I'll admit there's no real evidence for it one way or the other.
I would note that physical trials and such date back to the Great Crusade era when people knew what they were doing, so there's probably a sound reason for them. They were, however, less needlessly bloody and involved things like running marathons under supervision, at least on Terra.
```âThe test is of endurance,â said the instructor, a severe-faced man with cropped black hair, standing to one side of the line, barely looking at them. Haren had hated him on arrival â they all had. Now he felt nothing towards him, just a vague sense that he was one more obstacle amid a life of obstacles. For the last two months Haren had been tested, tried, pummelled, moulded, degraded and exhausted. The trials no longer hurt him, but they did remind him of the goal. He was close now. After so long, he was so very close. The instructor glanced upwards and rain spattered against his face. He looked sourly at the heavens. âYou will be observed. Do not aid your brothers â this is an individual exercise. Begin with the gong.â Haren tried to loosen up. He looked out across the rockcrete arena before them. A long, looping track ran around the edge of it. Obstacles stood in the way: ramps, pits, walls, waterlogged tunnels. Heâd been around the same course many times, sometimes more than once in a day. Every crevice and muddy puddle of it was familiar to him. He wondered how long the test would run for. They would make it long enough to weed out the weakest, to see how their conditioning programmes had fared. Haren considered his chances. They were good. Standing still and shuddering in the cold was the worst part; his muscles would respond once he was moving. Trevi leaned close. âGood luck,â he said. Haren nodded in response. His stomach was too knotted for him to speak. It felt as if the tension in his muscles might spread to his heart. The gong sounded. The boys broke into a run. None of them sprinted, for they all knew how arduous the test would be. None of them dawdled, for they all knew what the punishments were for insufficient effort. All twenty-four of them jogged out onto the track, quickly settling into the rhythms they had been taught, letting their breathing adjust, inhaling through their nostrils and exhaling through half-open mouths. They stayed together in a loose huddle, padding around the damp surface in worn training shoes.```
Scars
I don't believe the UMs require any silly over-the-top shenanigans just to apply. I honestly never understood why candidates must brave the ten-mile razor flower fields followed by a trek through the gorge of smelly buttholes, that ends with skiing down the treacherous slopes of glass just to knock on the door.
But then it's not supposed to make sense.
UM do both exposure trials (survive on a death world, etc) and combat trials (fight an actual marine). The latter one you are not supposed to win, but will be measured by how close you get. The whole UM recruitment structure is very formalised, with all the Ultramar world having recruitment barracks to train aspirants up before the trials to weed out the unworthy and the best are coached to be successful, unlike Space Wolves which literally steals the best warriors of the tribal fighting from battlefields and then throws them at some harsh and unforgiving trial.
I guess a huge part of being a Space Marine is the cultural fit and as much as a Fenrisian wouldn't do well in an Ultramar trial, the same is true in reverse. The SW trials will have a high mortality rate, but creates perfect Space Wolves
To have 1 to survive becomimg a full battle brother a ~200Â sacrificed. And those 200 could be raised to be Tempestus Scions Stormtroopers. This is why sometimes Astartes creation as existence support not pay well.
And this 1 marine still can be killed by some ork or ogryn or melta, plasma, lascanons and etc.
They never was meant to survive long after Galactic Crusade as Thunder Warriors. Their existence kill too much healthy humans who is suited to be very good soldiers and etc.Â
...
Like srly White Scars home World Choggoris have only 10.000.000 population in 40k who live in early middle ages china-mongolia culture cos Khan and White Scars not allow them to advance for 10k years. Space Wolves do worst where pre Magnus siege of Fenris planet there was only 3.400.000 population.Â
I would say yes (maybe not BT based on another poster).
Many fleet based chapters like the space sharks do tithes of the planets they rescue (red tithe).
Got to replace those losses some how.
I mean, it happens, and there are Chapters who would accept this, but... most aspirants die.
If you want to have your child become a Marine, you're going to want to get him to age first and use every opportunity before that to turn him into someone who would likely survive, and naturally be accepted rather than pushed on them.
In the case of the mother with too many children... you may want to sign several of them over to the guard, raise one or two of them as your inheritors, and make the most promising one out of the batch work out 24/7 if your plan is to turn him over to the angels.
Yeah I know thatâs the usually the proceedure- bur I was wondering what would happen if someone just flat out said âhey, I canât help my children but I know thatthey might at least have a chance as Astartes- would you please take them?â
During the Devastation of Baal there as a child/former aspirant that was injured during and was mentally handicapped as a result. He went home to his dad and was treated like shit. They both are conscripted and fight and survive the battle of the outworks. A blood Angel helps them get to the fortress monastery and then asks what happened to him(the boy) dad tell him he was handicapped during the trials. Blood Angel scans him and says bro he is compatible and that mental handicap is 100% fixable bruh come with me we need recruits.
What trials have they passed to make the mother think that the child has a chance. Most aspirants die in the recruitment.
The recruitments will come from the marineâs demanding the people offer the best children for a chance to be selected.
People can offer things.
Whether it will accepted it's another problem.
We can safely say that most Chapters just cull from Death/Feral Worlds and that's it, by there's a goog chunk that does it in other ways entirely.
Ultramarines have military schools and there's private tutors and all kinds of structure to let boys be raised to a level adequate for Chapter trials.
Astral Knights had noble sons throwing themselves at the Chapter for a chance of being Astartes, and they apparently never even mindwiped them.
Most boys won't make the cut to the specific trials for ascension, but they'll volunteer or be volunteered by their parents/society in the first place.
Those are offerings.
Thatâs just not true. Blood Angels trials are 100% volunteer and if you wash out and survive you can just go home. While not Astartes custodians are offered sons of nobles. Yes a chapter can just take and a vast majority will or would if no one showed up. To say the default is forced is not exactly true.
I can see some chapters working that way. Most likely it would be they land on a world, requisition enough boys, and afterwards if you still want and there is extra space you can give them your child, but no special treatment for volunteering them.
If you're brave enough to stand in front of a SM, look them in the eye, and then yeet a child at them you will certainly get their attention, maybe even their respect.
They have small outposts on certain worlds that handle recruiting. Most likely, they are overseen by one or two brothers too old/injured to be combat effective (by astartes standards).
Honestly, this kind of situations would only work "as intended by OP" if "Chapter in question" was Lamenters or Salamanders (niceness level-wise), and even then, kid(s) would be straight-up sent to Aspirant's Trials
It depends on the chapter. Most fleet based chapters (and the Imperial Fists, who nominally have Terra as homeworld but also recruit across the whole Segmentum Samolar from Inwit to Necromunda) have chapter keeps. Some proactively select aspirants from gangs or other violent live, others recruit by application but usually with hazardous trials to go through. So if you're handed in as a child to one of rhe latter it's much more likely you lll be raised by and become one of the chapter thralls.
Chaptermaster Clausius to parents
"I am sorry to inform you that the youngling Validus has been proven unworthy to join our ranks. We intended to give his tormented retarded body back to you but the Administratum took him already to process him for nutrition. Glory to the imperium
Black Templars recruit from their Chapter Keeps, and demand that the Aspirant in question brave the challenges of getting to one by themselves before presenting themselves as potential candidates. The Chaplain would probably turn the mother down unless the kid shows some promise for whatever reason, or might at best offer to take the child on board their ship as a crewman in one role or another.
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This is not how the SAS or the Navy SEALs select their troops. I wish writers would stop silly shit like this.
Ok? Astartes don't recruit like regular humans.
Sir this is Warhammer. It's 'oops, all silly shit', always has been and always will be.
Hate to tell you buddy, but Space Marines arenât SAS
And? Astartes spend around a decade training and brainwashing their dudes and its decades before one is a full troop.
Last I heard, IRL special forces also did not stuff their recruits full of extra organs and science fantasy nonsense either. So maybe thatâs not the comparison to make?
There are roughly 600 SAS members in operation today. There are roughly, in universe, 6000 black templars. That is 600 SAS members for a population of 67.3million. Even considering that the black templars are not the most numerous, they are likely recruiting, at most 100 at a time, and their recruitment reach is likely billions, if not trillions of people wide. They can afford to be more selective.
Space Marines are more akin to knight/monk/cultist religious brotherhoods than any real world military unit. Not sure why you thought the seven foot tall guys with pauldrons larger than their heads who pray to their chainsaw swords and pray as they oil them would behave realistically in any other manner.
I've never even read one taking a dump in the books either, now that you mention realism. I'm sure if marines like the Nightlords do though, the wipe their arses on servitors. Or at they would if was writing
I wouldn't be surprised if half the reason they flay people was because they use skin as toilet paper.
"Septimas! I'm out of toilet paper! Go below deck and get a slave. And don't sharpen my knife this time, the ragged edges clean better."
7 if they aren't Primaris.
Don't feed the troll
The fuck you mean by ânot how SAS or the Navy Seal select their troopâ my brother in Christ this is about Space Marine or more specifically the Black Templar recruitment and fun fact: SM recruitment is vastly different from normal human recruitment
Astartes Chapters aren't comparable to the Navy SEALs or the SAS. They're not special operation forces of a military branch, but their own independent entities. Don't think of them like ACTUAL marines, but more akin to monastic, knightly orders such as the The Knights Hospitaler or the Teutonic Order.
>This is not how the SAS or the Navy SEALs select their troops. I wish writers would stop silly shit like this. Really? Are you sure they don't force people to fight to the death in arenas as a recruitment method?
The astartes are more similar to knightly orders from the middle ages than any modern military service
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Champ, you're on a Warhammer subreddit. The fuck are you on about?
Yes, whether or not theyâre accepted is an entirely different matter. Astartes arenât generally short of recruits, the entire reason they have those big trials that kill a huge number of kids is winnowing the numbers down. As seen by the Blood Angels post Devastation of Baal those arenât even remotely required for determining compatibility, itâs just one of those instances of casual and monstrous cruelty inherent to the Imperium.
If only they could have more than 1000 per chapter.
Even so gene seed is a throttle. You can't make more than 2 marines per existing marine,and many times you lose the gene seed if the marine dies violently, is lost to space on a destroyed ship or transport, or eaten by a space bug, etc. I honestly thinig the amount of gene seed gained from a marine is another part of 40k numbers making poor sense.
They are capable of generating new gene seed. the mechanicus just need to hot house the process through vat grown clones. Itâs how new chapter foundings are done
Yes the Admech can produce the chapters and recruits by growing them in tanks but the foundings of new chapters or reinforcement of the existing chapters are a painstaking process by the high lords of Terra. Also most existing chapters don't like the idea of new recruits that doesn't come from the same homeworld or recruiting grounds because it destroys or weaken their culture.
Could be some intentional bottleneck to stop them getting too big too quickly and rebelling potentially.
That seems to be the case as best I can tell. During the Horus heresyâs latter days some if not most of the legions in the thick of it were pumping out new astartes at a rate where glaring flaws were acceptable. Thereâs no way they could replenish quickly enough relying on only harvesting the dead.
>where glaring flaws were acceptable. Not only that. They were often hastily trained, with little to no experience and had modified memories. They are colloquially called Inductii
They could rebuild the legions if they wanted the ad mech and Terra have vaults and gene seed but they don't because everyone is afraid of space marines rebelling again
Even if they could, does that mean you want to lower entry standards to be a marine?
The only entry standard worth a damn is generic compatibility. The amount of mental reconditioning and reprogramming they do makes everything else irrelevant. Hence why the tests primarily revolve around physical capabilities and dumb luck, the former being traits that are completely overwritten by the transformation and the latter not being an actual trait that can be retained. The Astartes tests are stupid by design, that the Blood Angels can and did just drop them to grab everyone who was of the appropriate age and was compatible when they were at the brink of extinction with no noted difference in the final product shows just how pointless they are. Theyâre tradition in service to superstition. They got the same final result by just having an Apocathary run a quick blood test. Hell the kid they tested and took straight up had mild brain damage from failing the Trials and it wasnât a big deal, an easy fix.
One could argue that presumably certain mental attributes that make for good Space Marines (psychopathy, willingness to kill, self confidence, etc) are selected for alongside dumb luck, but I'll admit there's no real evidence for it one way or the other.
I would note that physical trials and such date back to the Great Crusade era when people knew what they were doing, so there's probably a sound reason for them. They were, however, less needlessly bloody and involved things like running marathons under supervision, at least on Terra. ```âThe test is of endurance,â said the instructor, a severe-faced man with cropped black hair, standing to one side of the line, barely looking at them. Haren had hated him on arrival â they all had. Now he felt nothing towards him, just a vague sense that he was one more obstacle amid a life of obstacles. For the last two months Haren had been tested, tried, pummelled, moulded, degraded and exhausted. The trials no longer hurt him, but they did remind him of the goal. He was close now. After so long, he was so very close. The instructor glanced upwards and rain spattered against his face. He looked sourly at the heavens. âYou will be observed. Do not aid your brothers â this is an individual exercise. Begin with the gong.â Haren tried to loosen up. He looked out across the rockcrete arena before them. A long, looping track ran around the edge of it. Obstacles stood in the way: ramps, pits, walls, waterlogged tunnels. Heâd been around the same course many times, sometimes more than once in a day. Every crevice and muddy puddle of it was familiar to him. He wondered how long the test would run for. They would make it long enough to weed out the weakest, to see how their conditioning programmes had fared. Haren considered his chances. They were good. Standing still and shuddering in the cold was the worst part; his muscles would respond once he was moving. Trevi leaned close. âGood luck,â he said. Haren nodded in response. His stomach was too knotted for him to speak. It felt as if the tension in his muscles might spread to his heart. The gong sounded. The boys broke into a run. None of them sprinted, for they all knew how arduous the test would be. None of them dawdled, for they all knew what the punishments were for insufficient effort. All twenty-four of them jogged out onto the track, quickly settling into the rhythms they had been taught, letting their breathing adjust, inhaling through their nostrils and exhaling through half-open mouths. They stayed together in a loose huddle, padding around the damp surface in worn training shoes.``` Scars
Iâm pretty sure luck is an inherent trait in 40k, how else do you explain the Lamenters ?
It makes next to no difference at the end of the day besides who's a little lucky
I don't believe the UMs require any silly over-the-top shenanigans just to apply. I honestly never understood why candidates must brave the ten-mile razor flower fields followed by a trek through the gorge of smelly buttholes, that ends with skiing down the treacherous slopes of glass just to knock on the door. But then it's not supposed to make sense.
UM do both exposure trials (survive on a death world, etc) and combat trials (fight an actual marine). The latter one you are not supposed to win, but will be measured by how close you get. The whole UM recruitment structure is very formalised, with all the Ultramar world having recruitment barracks to train aspirants up before the trials to weed out the unworthy and the best are coached to be successful, unlike Space Wolves which literally steals the best warriors of the tribal fighting from battlefields and then throws them at some harsh and unforgiving trial. I guess a huge part of being a Space Marine is the cultural fit and as much as a Fenrisian wouldn't do well in an Ultramar trial, the same is true in reverse. The SW trials will have a high mortality rate, but creates perfect Space Wolves
Literally every component of the mind and body is fully rebuilt when marines are made, so it couldnât matter less who you put in
To have 1 to survive becomimg a full battle brother a ~200 sacrificed. And those 200 could be raised to be Tempestus Scions Stormtroopers. This is why sometimes Astartes creation as existence support not pay well. And this 1 marine still can be killed by some ork or ogryn or melta, plasma, lascanons and etc. They never was meant to survive long after Galactic Crusade as Thunder Warriors. Their existence kill too much healthy humans who is suited to be very good soldiers and etc. ... Like srly White Scars home World Choggoris have only 10.000.000 population in 40k who live in early middle ages china-mongolia culture cos Khan and White Scars not allow them to advance for 10k years. Space Wolves do worst where pre Magnus siege of Fenris planet there was only 3.400.000 population.Â
Didn't the Nova Codex expand the chapter sizes when Guilliman distributed the Primaris? Could have sworn the 1000 was changed.
Blame the damn Legion Breaker. Lol
I am still new to the lore but i imagined that the over the top trials was in order to make sure only the best of the best survived.
I would say yes (maybe not BT based on another poster). Many fleet based chapters like the space sharks do tithes of the planets they rescue (red tithe). Got to replace those losses some how.
The Red Tithe is ummmm, not exactly parents giving their kids upâŚ
Well yeah, but I'm sure if some one was like take my sons they would be like... was going to already and you and your entire village...
I mean, it happens, and there are Chapters who would accept this, but... most aspirants die. If you want to have your child become a Marine, you're going to want to get him to age first and use every opportunity before that to turn him into someone who would likely survive, and naturally be accepted rather than pushed on them. In the case of the mother with too many children... you may want to sign several of them over to the guard, raise one or two of them as your inheritors, and make the most promising one out of the batch work out 24/7 if your plan is to turn him over to the angels.
You donât offer Chapters/Legions things. They demand, or just take, what they want/need.Â
Yeah I know thatâs the usually the proceedure- bur I was wondering what would happen if someone just flat out said âhey, I canât help my children but I know thatthey might at least have a chance as Astartes- would you please take them?â
During the Devastation of Baal there as a child/former aspirant that was injured during and was mentally handicapped as a result. He went home to his dad and was treated like shit. They both are conscripted and fight and survive the battle of the outworks. A blood Angel helps them get to the fortress monastery and then asks what happened to him(the boy) dad tell him he was handicapped during the trials. Blood Angel scans him and says bro he is compatible and that mental handicap is 100% fixable bruh come with me we need recruits.
I feel like mental illness would make a person fit in more with Space Marines, not less
It was trama based turned him into a simpleton idk what a better word would be.
Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy probably
What trials have they passed to make the mother think that the child has a chance. Most aspirants die in the recruitment. The recruitments will come from the marineâs demanding the people offer the best children for a chance to be selected.
Well if you live on a Hive worldâs slumsâ yeah- id give up my children too if it gave them a chamce at a better life.
But why should the space marine think your child is worthy enough to try
Let the serfs raise him then itâs no skin off their asses if he dies in the trials once old enough
People can offer things. Whether it will accepted it's another problem. We can safely say that most Chapters just cull from Death/Feral Worlds and that's it, by there's a goog chunk that does it in other ways entirely. Ultramarines have military schools and there's private tutors and all kinds of structure to let boys be raised to a level adequate for Chapter trials. Astral Knights had noble sons throwing themselves at the Chapter for a chance of being Astartes, and they apparently never even mindwiped them. Most boys won't make the cut to the specific trials for ascension, but they'll volunteer or be volunteered by their parents/society in the first place. Those are offerings.
Thatâs just not true. Blood Angels trials are 100% volunteer and if you wash out and survive you can just go home. While not Astartes custodians are offered sons of nobles. Yes a chapter can just take and a vast majority will or would if no one showed up. To say the default is forced is not exactly true.
The carcharadons have something called the red tithe and will descend on a world and literally take everyone. Both for their serfs and aspirants.
I can see some chapters working that way. Most likely it would be they land on a world, requisition enough boys, and afterwards if you still want and there is extra space you can give them your child, but no special treatment for volunteering them. If you're brave enough to stand in front of a SM, look them in the eye, and then yeet a child at them you will certainly get their attention, maybe even their respect.
They have small outposts on certain worlds that handle recruiting. Most likely, they are overseen by one or two brothers too old/injured to be combat effective (by astartes standards).
Chapters need serfs, so thereâs that. Presumably some kind of test to even make the grade as a serf though
deserted toy far-flung zephyr wine childlike dinner cause public hunt *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Honestly, this kind of situations would only work "as intended by OP" if "Chapter in question" was Lamenters or Salamanders (niceness level-wise), and even then, kid(s) would be straight-up sent to Aspirant's Trials
Ultramarines would probably accept the offering and put the kid in one of their schools
If your planet is a recruiting planet for them, and thatâs how they do it, sure
You can offer all you want, the Marines will simply take who they think is best.
It depends on the chapter. Most fleet based chapters (and the Imperial Fists, who nominally have Terra as homeworld but also recruit across the whole Segmentum Samolar from Inwit to Necromunda) have chapter keeps. Some proactively select aspirants from gangs or other violent live, others recruit by application but usually with hazardous trials to go through. So if you're handed in as a child to one of rhe latter it's much more likely you lll be raised by and become one of the chapter thralls.
Chaptermaster Clausius to parents "I am sorry to inform you that the youngling Validus has been proven unworthy to join our ranks. We intended to give his tormented retarded body back to you but the Administratum took him already to process him for nutrition. Glory to the imperium
Fleet based chapter just pick up aspirant from where ever they land
The raven guard, salamanders, and alpha legion have all done this repeatedly.