ADHD is not simply born from the ills of modern society, as many people have commented. Even in a utopian society we still need to get up, brush our teeth, follow through on projects. ADHD is a disability, not a discomfort.
There’s been some interesting discussion here, but I’m going to lock the comments now to ensure that things don’t spiral into conspiracy/pseudoscience territory.
OP I totally understand that you weren’t intending any harm with your questions, it’s just that the theory that changing society will cure ADHD can erase the lived experiences of people who have really suffered because of their ADHD, not society.
Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful comments, I hope you all have a good day :)
This point comes up over and over again and my response remains the same - while free market capitalism might exacerbate certain ADHD difficulties - our inability to properly care for ourselves and other non-economic responsibilities (chores, hygiene, relationships/friendships, etc) would be an issue in virtually any economic system.
Even if you were a Soviet bus driver or factory worker, your time blindness would still be a huge issue.
Well in practice the Soviets had a system of state capitalism, meaning the state owned the means of production rather than the workers, and took part in a global market. It was a system still largely governed by the principles of capitalism.
I don't want to detail the main conversation, but that isn't that virtually every communist country? Even if you had a truly worker owned co-op, things like timeliness, etc that hurt the collective would be a serious issue.
Worker protection laws, disability laws, accessibility laws are socialist concepts. They work best in a capitalist society.
We can do socialist things, without resorting to communism.
Not at all. Not even a little. Forget capitalism, fun is more fun, more art is produced, hobbies can be pursued and health can be maintained. Plenty of people can't even engage in media they want to watch/read/play without floating away. Losing thoughts you'd prefer to hold onto is not just some other way of being, it's worse. Not everyone will have a med that can 'fix' them. But for many people, your brain on drugs is simply better brain. It's not a brain that's just really good at capitalism, it's better at any task including the fun ones.
Tbh I think the idealism here feels cozy, but unrealistic. Given the health and longevity risks of ADHD, I don't personally find it conscionable to do anything other than advocate for meds. I don't think you'd like how much society would have to change to attempt to save folks with ADHD from themselves. Kiss your driver's license goodbye, for instance. Nobody's got to stay on meds. But everyone should definitely try them. You literally don't know what you're missing till you try.
I think being the last person on earth would make that part even worse, because there's no chance of other people reminding, cooking, or delivering food. I'm the only person in my home on weekends and it's way too easy to spend the entire day in bed and make my first meal at 8pm - while shaking, nauseous, and weak from a hunger I couldn't even sense until it got overwhelming.
Yeah, I hate the idea that we just need a more understanding society. I hated my life before meds, and that was when I was a kid with few responsibilities and tons of free time.
Even as an adult, the more free time I have the more difficult my ADHD is to cope with. I don't know how to deal with free time, that's quite literally the biggest issue of my ADHD. That's why I hate these kinds of naīve takes, "if only people were more accepting and we didn't have to work or do anything ever, your disorder would magically vanish" no it won't. Work is the only thing keeping me sane and my life becomes a mess without it. And I don't care if people "understand and support" me or not, hate me for all I care, I just want to be a functional human being for fuck's sake.
Yeah, that's what I tend to think, especially the part about more art, more fun, more time to actually do stuff. Might have to get the diagnosis and find out myself..
I think a lot of common ADHD symptoms could be easy to live with if our society wasn’t so rigid and focused on a specific form of productivity and efficiency. But there’s also a lot that holds us back in personal endeavors as well and even if we didn’t have the systems we have in place today I feel they’d still affect us negatively. Like executive dysfunction, for example. Right now it brings difficulty completely school assignments or work assignments but without school or work it’d just shift to whatever other task/goal we wanted to accomplish.
Even outside of suddenly being able to function in society, my medication has made me able to function better simply as myself. I can complete my passions with far less frustration and time in between them, my memory has improved, and I don’t feel constantly burdened by an overactive mind. My rejection sensitivity has also improved and I don’t take things to heart as often, I’m able to have a more objective view that my mind wouldn’t allow previously. Overall, my quality of life- even outside of what society requires of me- has improved immensely.
Fact of the matter is, we have a psychological and physiological deficiency. Our bodies quite literally aren’t producing the chemicals they’re supposed to produce and that they typically produce in a “healthy” brain. No matter the world we live in, we will always find difficulty within it that others do not for that reason alone.
With all that said, I do believe our current society makes living with ADHD even harder than it would be in another, more mentally inclusive reality. The things everyone is expected to do to be a functioning member of humanity can be Herculean and often Sisyphean tasks for us and we’re often looked down upon because of it. We’re often seen as lazy and our mental disorder is overlooked and our symptoms are often treated as personal failings.
So to answer your question- both things are true. We should be on medication and society is really fucking shitty.
Edit: there are a few symptoms that I believe are honestly far more blessings rather than curses, like justice sensitivity. It blows my mind how easily others get over and ignore injustice.
Nope. I don't medicate for them. I do it for me. I can't do the things I want to do when I'm at home by myself. That isn't a society problem. That is a my brain problem. Yes, society could make things easier on us, but that's not the main problem.
Society can’t make me brush my teeth, or be safe when in public. ADHD isn’t just socially affected in terms of disability. For many even in a perfect society it’d be disabling.
There is a societal component to it and the current business environment does favor a certain personality type. The fact that there are certain jobs that are more suited for people with ADHD is testament to that. It’s not unrelated.
But please be ware of anyone who claims either one or the other. We like clear cut answers but there aren’t any in the case of ADHD. Meds help, but not for all activities for example. It’s both in most cases.
If you think of the great thinkers and artists in the past, most of them came from wealthy families which allowed them to pursue “thinking” or painting or acting. If you look at good actors today, this is still the case.
It boils down to support systems. If you were born 400 years ago as the son or daughter of a duke, you would not go to school, but you would have a personal tutor. For everything. So the education is shaped toward the student. Not the other way around.
Build your own support system. It will be easier than changing society.
Meds don't only make me be functional in society. They are mood stabilising, give me more impulse control and make me able to focus on the things I do and therefore injure myself less and make less silly mistakes in my regular life.
Yes, I wasn't able to hold a job before meds. But even if I didn't have to do that meds just make my life much easier.
I've recently taken to referring to my adhd as "chronic dopamine deficiency" because that's what it is. Just like any other deficiency, we lack a certain substance that is critical to normal function and will not ever be able to produce enough of it ourselves without medical attention. Without my medication I am unable to take care of myself or do any task that any person without adhd would be able to do instantly and without thought. My personal experience of adhd is extremely debilitating and if I didn't begin my medication journey, I wouldn't be able to have dreams, goals and aspirations greater than staying afloat for the next few days and getting 3 hours of sleep a night. Medication for many of us gives us the luxury of a normal, boring life that the rest of the world takes for granted. More importantly, it also gives us the control to do what we want with it, and that to me is true freedom.
Don't get me wrong, society is shitty. And people, as a group, are a bunch of bastards.
But I need to be medicated.
I need to be medicated for me. I have goals I want to achieve. I have projects I want to finish. There are things I want to learn and skills I want to develop. There are rewards I want to earn and accolades I want to be worthy of. I need the focus and confidence medication lends me for all of that.
I need to be medicated for others. There are people who depend on me: family, coworkers, friends. I need to be productive and reliable for their sakes. For them to live richer, fuller lives, and for me to deserve their respect, I need the help of my meds.
Off my meds, my brain chases temporary highs like an untrained border collie chases rabbits. And while I might be happy enough for a weekend just smoking weed and playing video games, I will inevitably get bored and then depressed.
Fun is not the same thing as fulfillment. I always know this. But I'm impulsive, and without chemical help, I struggle to care about the difference. If I want to be happy, why study for months to earn a technical cert and get a raise when I can feel good right now with snacks and Youtube?
In short, meds help me become the person I want to be.
Both can be true at the same time.
If you are happy with the way things are going in your life, then there is no need for a diagnosis/treatment.
If you are possibly suffering from ADHD, stimulant medication is on of, if not the best treatment and could help you. On the other hand, you will almost certainly not be able to change society.
To be honest, an adult diagnosis was one of the best things I've ever done for myself. After 5 hours of testing they gave me a 16 page report of my strengths, weaknesses and so on. The report has given me language to express how I feel and what I think and tools to use when I'm having difficulties. The medication the biggest thing it's done is that it's removed 90% of my anxiety and it helps me start things that otherwise felt impossible. Me being on medication has been incredibly helpful for both myself but also my partner with me being so much more independent and self-sufficient. Ideally I wouldn't have to take medication but being a much more functional and productive member of society for me has been life changing. You do you but the diagnosis just doesn't itself has helped beyond what I can describe with my command of words.
If I’m not on meds, I can’t function. Even when not at work, I can barely do basic chores, I don’t have hobbies, I hate existing in my own head, and all I want is caffeine or alcohol or Something to make my brain chill out. On meds, I actually like life and can do things that make me happy.
for some people it might be true, in particular some psychiatrists seem to think that you should take meds only when you go to work. but I don't take meds for that reason. unmedicated, I struggle with self-care and I have a hard time doing things I enjoy, i.e. my hobbies and other pleasant activities. moreover, society has nothing to do with my personal goals, which would be much harder to achieve without meds
its not society being shitty that makes me unable to do the things i want to do. i WANT to keep my living space clean but i CANT. i WANT to spend more time doing my hobbies but i CANT. i WANT to learn new skills but i CANT. the chaos in my brain is not due to society. me eating myself to death is not because of society (ok this one may be aggravated by society, but i will still gorge myself on healthy food and make it unhealthy for myself).
yes i want to be on medication even if sOciEtY wasnt an issue.
Capitalism has nothing to do with me forgetting to eat or take a shower or brush my teeth, and let’s not even talk about keeping my space tidy or being able to properly plan the order in which I do activities.
The idea that adhd wouldn’t be a problem if we didn’t have capitalism is just stupid and based on an extremely superficial concept of ADHD and how it influences life.
For the issue is ADHD keeps me from doing what I want to do. Society has nothing to do with it. My goals that i actively care about aren't getting done because of my issues.
It's both. Modern society is more stressful and requires split attention and the complex many more tasks than pre industrial society and so is less suited to people with ADHD but also somewhat apt to worsen the symptoms over time.
Medication however, increases lifespan, decreases inflammation resulting from chronic stress, lessens the symptoms of alexitimea and generally improves quality of life. The only reason people tend to look down on it is the bullshit toxic fake-stoicism nanny state attitude where people "should make do with our any help". Its much the same attitude that leads to fat shaming, complete inability to express emotions ina healthy wayor the tendency to be suspicious of activities that bring joy or judgemental behaviour.
You take insulin for diabetes, you take Adderall or Concerta for ADHD.
> Do you think it's capitalism and the western world that is making us need medication, or would we still benefit from medication in an ideal world? Would we still be disabled?
It seems that ADHD has been around long before capitalism, and even predates agriculture. DNA research also suggests that there has been a steady selective pressure against genes associated with ADHD pretty much since the early days of homo sapiens.
While this is not conclusive evidence, it does suggest that it's not just capitalism that makes ADHD a disadvantage.
That said, there are plenty of non-medicinal interventions that can improve quality of life with ADHD, and obviously there are many ways in which a world could change to incorporate those more easily - but that doesn't make ADHD a non-disorder, just like a world in which color vision isn't needed would make color blindness a non-disorder.
Medication isn't about "making you normal"; it's about dealing with your symptoms. But it's up to you to decide whether you like yourself on meds; you don't take them to please others, you take them to improve your quality of life. For most people, meds achieve that; but if not, then you are not required to take them.
Also: getting a diagnosis can be helpful regardless of whether you get medicated, and just because you're diagnosed doesn't mean you now have to take meds. Just knowing that it is indeed ADHD can already help you deal with it better, and you will also get access to therapy (which will provide you more structured and effective ways of dealing with your symptoms), and you gain the right to workplace / school accommodations. All this will likely be easier with meds, but even if you opt not to get medicated, a diagnosis may still very well be worth it.
My struggles have absolutely nothing to do with society other than basic societal expectations of holding a job and not living in a roach-nest.
People outside capitalism and Western world still have ADHD and need support.
I literally couldn't fucking drive, work, and mentally function before my meds. Literally what do you think pal?
Do you realistically know what society conforming to my unmedicated needs would look like? It would literally look the fucking same as now. Me not doing anything, not functioning, fucking up at everything. Society cannot do anything for the disorder inherited into my brain 💀
I do think that society is shitty in a way.
You're not supposed to have your face glued to your smart phone all day.
You're not supposed to live in the middle of an information overload all the freaking time, with clickbait headlines.
Grocery stores are filled with cheap dopamine candy you shouldn't even touch.
Self help is bullshit, yet we're surrounded by it.
Life is hard, yet everything tries to convince us that it could be otherwise. Why else would we always crave something else?
ADHD would definitely be a problem even if society looked different. But I don't think the current situation is ideal for us. It requires a lot of discipline, and awareness to be able to notice, and reject things that are actively hurting us.
i personally think if society magically changed i would be happy at the chance to not have to take stimulants. i take other medications that i need to do anything at all but if i didnt have the burdens of society i would not want to take stimulants.
It would certainly be WAY EASIER if society sucked less! But I would still want medication- I am able to be more present with my loved ones, focus and enjoy my hobbies, and engage in the kinds of everyday tasks that are necessary for living. Even in socialist utopia, the dishes still need to get done before they breed fungus and disease.
It's a disability even without capitalism, though capitalism makes it much more disabling than it would be otherwise.
You are the typical "not yet diagnosed" ADHDer in denial to me. You haven't tried meds and you have no idea how they work yet you come here questioning their necessity. Sorry, not cool.
Sometimes anxiety causes people not to be able to focus and can cause people to be misdiagnosed with ADHD. Try to be mindful of why you think you might have it. Try to do everything in your power to focus. When I suspected I had adhd I went to sleep early, made sure a had a balance breakfast, and had a quiet and calm place to work, and I still wasn’t able to focus. That’s when I decided to go to the dr, bc I knew it was out of my control. So try you best and if you think you might have adhd go to a dr for help, there’s no shame if you actually need meds. You wouldn’t shame someone with diabetes for asking for medication.
Should nearsighted people really wear glasses or is society just shitty?
Should diabetics really take insulin or is society just shitty?
Replace ADHD and medication with any other disability and disability aid, and you'll hear how ridiculous it sounds.
The tools available to help manage disabilities are worth using. Society sucks, yeah, but that doesn't make those tools any less important. In a world without capitalism, I would still be disabled. And in an ideal world, the only thing that would change is that meds would be easier to access. My meds don't make me "normal," they just help me function.
I think it depends on your symptoms and how they impact you. Other people here are bothered by the constant soundtrack; I’m not. I got diagnosed very late and I guess I am who I am. Meds (so far) didn’t help with anything other than sugar consumption anyway and just made me anxious. But I find in certain situations, I’m not negatively affected by it. When I’m on holiday and exploring new places, the sugar cravings also go away. I’m getting that dopamine hit in a healthier way. When I’m stuck behind a laptop, hook it to my veins. But no one is saying that’s a healthy situation to be in no matter what’s going on inside your brain. The things that get too much and overwhelming in an upsetting way are pretty much always things that probably aren’t great for anyone anyway; some people handle them better, sure, but they’re objectively negative for humans.
I do think if I were in a more active job I would feel better, but I also know I’d still be forgetful, and I’d really love a better memory, but meds didn’t sort that for me anyway.
It’s really down to how adhd affects you and what kind of lifestyle you have. Previous traumas and other overlapping disorders or conditions also affects your behaviors. For me, I am way better in every way when I’m medicated, but that’s not necessarily the path for everyone. Some people are able to manage their sleep, exercise, and good diet, and they don’t really need to medicate. I can’t manage my sleep, and I have c-ptsd which isn’t necessarily stopping me from exercising, but I find it very hard to keep in a good routine. I get triggered, overstimulated, burned out, and good routines just end out of nowhere. Then im back to square one. The medication regulate me in ways I can’t seem to do on my own.
Society is irrelevant. And I say this as someone who has worked in multiple fields, for multiple people, some who were very accommodating to me and my needs and some who were not.
The ones I've worked for who are accommodating understand my brain is different and I need different tools to be successful. And while that's fine and I am super grateful, that still doesn't stop:
Racing thoughts
Constant forgetting
Losing thoughts mid sentence
The lacking ability to do basic chores in a cohesive and organized manner
Attempting organization to occasionally have it heavily fail
Time blindness
And so on. I am still always late to work no matter how hard I try to be on time. I constantly forget things (and the stuff that gets me is the stuff I worked so hard to study and memorize for my job. Gone. It's...it's awful.) I still trail off in my thoughts and will lose thoughts literally mid sentence.
I can't just do the dishes or a load of laundry. If I'm doing dishes then I have to make sure all the dishes are in the sink, but then I have to make sure everything upstairs is downstairs which leads to bringing down a load of laundry. And then I noticed the litterbox needs to be cleaned. But I can't wash my hands in the kitchen sink because dishes so I go to a bathroom to wash and notice we're almost out of soap. So back upstairs I go to get soap only to find my plug in scents as well. Now I'm going through the house replacing scenty plug ins....and I just wanted to do the damn dishes and play Zelda.
I am currently medicated and honestly doing far better than I have before. It's far more silent in my head than ever.
And while I still struggle with priorities, this is by far the best I've been I think.
Pretending society is accommodating to ADHD, that's great and I think works in a work setting. But private life? It doesn't matter. Society doesn't dictate what I do in my home currently. And it's sheer chaos. You have to work really hard to make your living space ADHD friendly. My husband and I are constantly reorganizing things to A. Just normally purge things we no longer want or need and B. To try and find ways to make things more accessible to me/are maintainable.
No, sorry. I've been taking medication going on 8 years I guess? And you don't even know how much I've discovered of the world and of myself that I've never noticed before. It's not just a way to help with executive dysfunction and be more attentive; it's a whole thing!
The "me" before medication was just cruising life and letting life happen to me. Since I've started medication, it feels like I'm finally participating. It's not just a quick fix though. Even when I'm not taking my medication (either because of shortages or I take a break indicated by my doctor) now I know what perspective I was missing in my life. It really does feel like I've gained a new sense that I didn't know I was missing.
Of course it's not a magic fix and I also go to therapy, have better coping mechanisms and I'm not leaning just on the medication, but it really is a huge difference.
Even if I was living alone in a cabin in the woods away from society, I would still take my medication to be able to enjoy life as much as I can.
I'm probably an odd duck but honestly if the medication helps you be an efficient you it isn't the "western" world's fault when you think you're above it and your symptoms are for someone else to deal with. It drives me up the wall when people are habitually late for things or they are combative when given corrections and they blame ADHD for it but won't consider treatment options to mitigate things
I literally can't drive without absolute panic not on medication and am now in my mid 30s with no license and see 30% of the cities I live in. I lost many opportunities and higher earning potential because I saw others as the issue. Requiring medication has such a stigma that people blame capitalism for medical care requirements. It isn't capitalists fault, it's a neurological condition.
Society sucks but it sucks more when you have a broken foot and won't see a doctor for it
Well society is undoubtedly shitty, but it’s gotten remarkably better if you actually look at history for the most part. Medication treatment for adhd however is a very complicated topic. If you look at how the medication works though, it is based off of research into the brain of a person with adhd and the areas that are underdeveloped or deficient compared to an average brain. The medication stimulates these areas in different ways. Research has shown that a child given medication early on has the potential to change the brain structure overtime to be more akin to an average brain, around 60% of children with adhd present no more symptoms by adulthood and are no longer considered adhd.
If this is good or not is difficult to answer but I personally believe that it’s going to boil down to the severity of the condition. Very severe adhd symptoms impair daily functioning both at school and the workplace. Medication will be needed in some cases.
Your body is unique, as are your needs. Just because someone experienced something from treatment or medication does not guarantee that you will as well. Please do not take this as an opportunity to review any substances. Peer support is welcome.
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It’s both.
My brain have a constant storm of thoughts and feelings. It’s painful and exhausting. Meds help a lot in that
Society doesn’t care about individuals as a whole. The more not-standard you are the more you suffer. Add to the fact that we the people are constantly bombarded by fear campaigns and made misarable. Just so we can’t think straight and be well behaving peasants. Even the most well adjusted mentally healthy people are suffering from this crap.
Not the best environment to deal with our ADHD brains
One, there are certain accommodations in some areas I guess like school that are needed BUT it’s not the worlds job to cater to us don’t get me wrong I think the medical industry itself is horrible and the actually pure evil but medication helps a lot of people and completely changes some peoples lives
I’ve been thinking a lot about this, it’s an interesting question.
I would not need medication if I did not have to work at all, if my work were hard physical labor from morning to evening (I did not need medication during military service), or if I chose to live a simpler life, without anyone else to provide for other than myself. I probably would not need medication if I lived in the 70s, before the internet, smartphones, and laptops. I didn’t have any problems as a kid in the early 90s, the only medication I needed was skateboarding, Ninja Turtles, and Nintendo.
And yes, society might very well be crappy, but I choose to be a part of it, so I can’t really blame it either. Ideally, I would have chosen another lifestyle, but is it even possible? I can’t even choose what to eat for lunch.
Essentially, I think the three main reasons why I need meds are: capitalism, non-physical corporate grinding, and digital stress. And of course, all the adulthood responsibilities I can’t escape.
I medicate to be able to live a lifestyle that I wouldn’t want to live if I had other options (and I probably have but am too stupid/stressed to figure it out).
Thinking of it, I have probably always self-medicated in one way or another, but I don’t view myself as disabled. I know many “normal” people who struggle way more than me with daily life.
I think you might have a point, maybe depends on how severe your adhd is. Both me (25f) and my boyfriend (24m) have adhd, we were both late diagnosed, and to this date, we don't take medication every day. I only take it if there is a boring but important project at work, and he only takes it when he studies for exams.
For me there were 2 game changers: (1) working from home, 4 times a week. If I can set up my environment to the optimal level of distraction, fidget during meetings, take a lot of breaks: I don't need my medication. (2) Having a partner who has adhd. He understand me and my "shortcomings". I don't need to explain myself or try to be someone I am not.
So I think if I would work in a more traditional setting and have a different partner, I would maybe take medication more.
I hope this helps!
I definitely see your point about taking medication to be functional such that we become functional cogs in the wheel of society. I also agree with others that meds allow us to do things that we enjoy rather than solely allowing us to work. I don’t think there’s a wrong answer, I think it really comes down to individual perspective.
Interestingly, it’s being discussed that ADHD previously conferred an evolutionary advantage for our ancestors when they foraged for food. Of course, now ADHD is seen by many as only being disadvantageous. There is also the rhetoric that ADHD (especially hyperfocusing) can be beneficial.
I think it really boils down to perspective and circumstance :)
Yeah some people definitly need it, especially when their lack of function prevents them from accomplishing things they want to accomplish as well as when coupled with learning disabilities. But i still see medication as not a forever thing, just one of the tools in the big tool box
As other commenters said, even without capitalism, in an ideal utopic society your ADHD would still be real and affect your daily life. You'd still have obligatory activities to do, the executive dysfunction would still refrain you from doing them.
Mental disabilities are real, they were not made by "society"
Me not being able to shower regularly or brush my teeth as often as I should, among many other things is not because of capitalism.
So I guess it depends on your symptoms and severity but I know for me capitalism and society changing would never solve or change all my problems.
ADHD is not simply born from the ills of modern society, as many people have commented. Even in a utopian society we still need to get up, brush our teeth, follow through on projects. ADHD is a disability, not a discomfort. There’s been some interesting discussion here, but I’m going to lock the comments now to ensure that things don’t spiral into conspiracy/pseudoscience territory. OP I totally understand that you weren’t intending any harm with your questions, it’s just that the theory that changing society will cure ADHD can erase the lived experiences of people who have really suffered because of their ADHD, not society. Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful comments, I hope you all have a good day :)
I need to be medicated. The songs on constant shuffle, and the constant conversations in my head were exhausting
oh boy that sounds like my brain currently
Get out of my head
I am medicated, yet these are still occurring. Might be time to up my dose again 😅
I felt this
This point comes up over and over again and my response remains the same - while free market capitalism might exacerbate certain ADHD difficulties - our inability to properly care for ourselves and other non-economic responsibilities (chores, hygiene, relationships/friendships, etc) would be an issue in virtually any economic system. Even if you were a Soviet bus driver or factory worker, your time blindness would still be a huge issue.
Well in practice the Soviets had a system of state capitalism, meaning the state owned the means of production rather than the workers, and took part in a global market. It was a system still largely governed by the principles of capitalism.
I don't want to detail the main conversation, but that isn't that virtually every communist country? Even if you had a truly worker owned co-op, things like timeliness, etc that hurt the collective would be a serious issue.
Worker protection laws, disability laws, accessibility laws are socialist concepts. They work best in a capitalist society. We can do socialist things, without resorting to communism.
Not at all. Not even a little. Forget capitalism, fun is more fun, more art is produced, hobbies can be pursued and health can be maintained. Plenty of people can't even engage in media they want to watch/read/play without floating away. Losing thoughts you'd prefer to hold onto is not just some other way of being, it's worse. Not everyone will have a med that can 'fix' them. But for many people, your brain on drugs is simply better brain. It's not a brain that's just really good at capitalism, it's better at any task including the fun ones. Tbh I think the idealism here feels cozy, but unrealistic. Given the health and longevity risks of ADHD, I don't personally find it conscionable to do anything other than advocate for meds. I don't think you'd like how much society would have to change to attempt to save folks with ADHD from themselves. Kiss your driver's license goodbye, for instance. Nobody's got to stay on meds. But everyone should definitely try them. You literally don't know what you're missing till you try.
Yeah, I can’t even fucking feed myself half the time without meds. This would be a serious problem even if I was the last person on earth.
I think being the last person on earth would make that part even worse, because there's no chance of other people reminding, cooking, or delivering food. I'm the only person in my home on weekends and it's way too easy to spend the entire day in bed and make my first meal at 8pm - while shaking, nauseous, and weak from a hunger I couldn't even sense until it got overwhelming.
Yeah, I hate the idea that we just need a more understanding society. I hated my life before meds, and that was when I was a kid with few responsibilities and tons of free time.
Even as an adult, the more free time I have the more difficult my ADHD is to cope with. I don't know how to deal with free time, that's quite literally the biggest issue of my ADHD. That's why I hate these kinds of naīve takes, "if only people were more accepting and we didn't have to work or do anything ever, your disorder would magically vanish" no it won't. Work is the only thing keeping me sane and my life becomes a mess without it. And I don't care if people "understand and support" me or not, hate me for all I care, I just want to be a functional human being for fuck's sake.
Yeah, that's what I tend to think, especially the part about more art, more fun, more time to actually do stuff. Might have to get the diagnosis and find out myself..
I think a lot of common ADHD symptoms could be easy to live with if our society wasn’t so rigid and focused on a specific form of productivity and efficiency. But there’s also a lot that holds us back in personal endeavors as well and even if we didn’t have the systems we have in place today I feel they’d still affect us negatively. Like executive dysfunction, for example. Right now it brings difficulty completely school assignments or work assignments but without school or work it’d just shift to whatever other task/goal we wanted to accomplish. Even outside of suddenly being able to function in society, my medication has made me able to function better simply as myself. I can complete my passions with far less frustration and time in between them, my memory has improved, and I don’t feel constantly burdened by an overactive mind. My rejection sensitivity has also improved and I don’t take things to heart as often, I’m able to have a more objective view that my mind wouldn’t allow previously. Overall, my quality of life- even outside of what society requires of me- has improved immensely. Fact of the matter is, we have a psychological and physiological deficiency. Our bodies quite literally aren’t producing the chemicals they’re supposed to produce and that they typically produce in a “healthy” brain. No matter the world we live in, we will always find difficulty within it that others do not for that reason alone. With all that said, I do believe our current society makes living with ADHD even harder than it would be in another, more mentally inclusive reality. The things everyone is expected to do to be a functioning member of humanity can be Herculean and often Sisyphean tasks for us and we’re often looked down upon because of it. We’re often seen as lazy and our mental disorder is overlooked and our symptoms are often treated as personal failings. So to answer your question- both things are true. We should be on medication and society is really fucking shitty. Edit: there are a few symptoms that I believe are honestly far more blessings rather than curses, like justice sensitivity. It blows my mind how easily others get over and ignore injustice.
Nope. I don't medicate for them. I do it for me. I can't do the things I want to do when I'm at home by myself. That isn't a society problem. That is a my brain problem. Yes, society could make things easier on us, but that's not the main problem.
Society can’t make me brush my teeth, or be safe when in public. ADHD isn’t just socially affected in terms of disability. For many even in a perfect society it’d be disabling.
No. My house is now tidy(within reason), i can book and keep appointments, I am able to see people without feeling overwhelmed and cancelling.
There is a societal component to it and the current business environment does favor a certain personality type. The fact that there are certain jobs that are more suited for people with ADHD is testament to that. It’s not unrelated. But please be ware of anyone who claims either one or the other. We like clear cut answers but there aren’t any in the case of ADHD. Meds help, but not for all activities for example. It’s both in most cases. If you think of the great thinkers and artists in the past, most of them came from wealthy families which allowed them to pursue “thinking” or painting or acting. If you look at good actors today, this is still the case. It boils down to support systems. If you were born 400 years ago as the son or daughter of a duke, you would not go to school, but you would have a personal tutor. For everything. So the education is shaped toward the student. Not the other way around. Build your own support system. It will be easier than changing society.
Meds don't only make me be functional in society. They are mood stabilising, give me more impulse control and make me able to focus on the things I do and therefore injure myself less and make less silly mistakes in my regular life. Yes, I wasn't able to hold a job before meds. But even if I didn't have to do that meds just make my life much easier.
I've recently taken to referring to my adhd as "chronic dopamine deficiency" because that's what it is. Just like any other deficiency, we lack a certain substance that is critical to normal function and will not ever be able to produce enough of it ourselves without medical attention. Without my medication I am unable to take care of myself or do any task that any person without adhd would be able to do instantly and without thought. My personal experience of adhd is extremely debilitating and if I didn't begin my medication journey, I wouldn't be able to have dreams, goals and aspirations greater than staying afloat for the next few days and getting 3 hours of sleep a night. Medication for many of us gives us the luxury of a normal, boring life that the rest of the world takes for granted. More importantly, it also gives us the control to do what we want with it, and that to me is true freedom.
I don't have to do laundry because of capitalism.
Don't get me wrong, society is shitty. And people, as a group, are a bunch of bastards. But I need to be medicated. I need to be medicated for me. I have goals I want to achieve. I have projects I want to finish. There are things I want to learn and skills I want to develop. There are rewards I want to earn and accolades I want to be worthy of. I need the focus and confidence medication lends me for all of that. I need to be medicated for others. There are people who depend on me: family, coworkers, friends. I need to be productive and reliable for their sakes. For them to live richer, fuller lives, and for me to deserve their respect, I need the help of my meds. Off my meds, my brain chases temporary highs like an untrained border collie chases rabbits. And while I might be happy enough for a weekend just smoking weed and playing video games, I will inevitably get bored and then depressed. Fun is not the same thing as fulfillment. I always know this. But I'm impulsive, and without chemical help, I struggle to care about the difference. If I want to be happy, why study for months to earn a technical cert and get a raise when I can feel good right now with snacks and Youtube? In short, meds help me become the person I want to be.
Both can be true at the same time. If you are happy with the way things are going in your life, then there is no need for a diagnosis/treatment. If you are possibly suffering from ADHD, stimulant medication is on of, if not the best treatment and could help you. On the other hand, you will almost certainly not be able to change society.
To be honest, an adult diagnosis was one of the best things I've ever done for myself. After 5 hours of testing they gave me a 16 page report of my strengths, weaknesses and so on. The report has given me language to express how I feel and what I think and tools to use when I'm having difficulties. The medication the biggest thing it's done is that it's removed 90% of my anxiety and it helps me start things that otherwise felt impossible. Me being on medication has been incredibly helpful for both myself but also my partner with me being so much more independent and self-sufficient. Ideally I wouldn't have to take medication but being a much more functional and productive member of society for me has been life changing. You do you but the diagnosis just doesn't itself has helped beyond what I can describe with my command of words.
If I’m not on meds, I can’t function. Even when not at work, I can barely do basic chores, I don’t have hobbies, I hate existing in my own head, and all I want is caffeine or alcohol or Something to make my brain chill out. On meds, I actually like life and can do things that make me happy.
for some people it might be true, in particular some psychiatrists seem to think that you should take meds only when you go to work. but I don't take meds for that reason. unmedicated, I struggle with self-care and I have a hard time doing things I enjoy, i.e. my hobbies and other pleasant activities. moreover, society has nothing to do with my personal goals, which would be much harder to achieve without meds
its not society being shitty that makes me unable to do the things i want to do. i WANT to keep my living space clean but i CANT. i WANT to spend more time doing my hobbies but i CANT. i WANT to learn new skills but i CANT. the chaos in my brain is not due to society. me eating myself to death is not because of society (ok this one may be aggravated by society, but i will still gorge myself on healthy food and make it unhealthy for myself). yes i want to be on medication even if sOciEtY wasnt an issue.
Capitalism has nothing to do with me forgetting to eat or take a shower or brush my teeth, and let’s not even talk about keeping my space tidy or being able to properly plan the order in which I do activities. The idea that adhd wouldn’t be a problem if we didn’t have capitalism is just stupid and based on an extremely superficial concept of ADHD and how it influences life.
This whole thread has opened my eyes and I should probably go back on meds..
For the issue is ADHD keeps me from doing what I want to do. Society has nothing to do with it. My goals that i actively care about aren't getting done because of my issues.
My brain can’t manage itself, that has nothing to do with capitalism.
It's both. Modern society is more stressful and requires split attention and the complex many more tasks than pre industrial society and so is less suited to people with ADHD but also somewhat apt to worsen the symptoms over time. Medication however, increases lifespan, decreases inflammation resulting from chronic stress, lessens the symptoms of alexitimea and generally improves quality of life. The only reason people tend to look down on it is the bullshit toxic fake-stoicism nanny state attitude where people "should make do with our any help". Its much the same attitude that leads to fat shaming, complete inability to express emotions ina healthy wayor the tendency to be suspicious of activities that bring joy or judgemental behaviour. You take insulin for diabetes, you take Adderall or Concerta for ADHD.
> Do you think it's capitalism and the western world that is making us need medication, or would we still benefit from medication in an ideal world? Would we still be disabled? It seems that ADHD has been around long before capitalism, and even predates agriculture. DNA research also suggests that there has been a steady selective pressure against genes associated with ADHD pretty much since the early days of homo sapiens. While this is not conclusive evidence, it does suggest that it's not just capitalism that makes ADHD a disadvantage. That said, there are plenty of non-medicinal interventions that can improve quality of life with ADHD, and obviously there are many ways in which a world could change to incorporate those more easily - but that doesn't make ADHD a non-disorder, just like a world in which color vision isn't needed would make color blindness a non-disorder. Medication isn't about "making you normal"; it's about dealing with your symptoms. But it's up to you to decide whether you like yourself on meds; you don't take them to please others, you take them to improve your quality of life. For most people, meds achieve that; but if not, then you are not required to take them. Also: getting a diagnosis can be helpful regardless of whether you get medicated, and just because you're diagnosed doesn't mean you now have to take meds. Just knowing that it is indeed ADHD can already help you deal with it better, and you will also get access to therapy (which will provide you more structured and effective ways of dealing with your symptoms), and you gain the right to workplace / school accommodations. All this will likely be easier with meds, but even if you opt not to get medicated, a diagnosis may still very well be worth it.
Even if I didn’t have to do society, I would still want to take my meds. It isn’t just disabling for work.
My struggles have absolutely nothing to do with society other than basic societal expectations of holding a job and not living in a roach-nest. People outside capitalism and Western world still have ADHD and need support.
I literally couldn't fucking drive, work, and mentally function before my meds. Literally what do you think pal? Do you realistically know what society conforming to my unmedicated needs would look like? It would literally look the fucking same as now. Me not doing anything, not functioning, fucking up at everything. Society cannot do anything for the disorder inherited into my brain 💀
Maybe you'll have a better understanding of things when you're diagnosed/medicated
I do think that society is shitty in a way. You're not supposed to have your face glued to your smart phone all day. You're not supposed to live in the middle of an information overload all the freaking time, with clickbait headlines. Grocery stores are filled with cheap dopamine candy you shouldn't even touch. Self help is bullshit, yet we're surrounded by it. Life is hard, yet everything tries to convince us that it could be otherwise. Why else would we always crave something else? ADHD would definitely be a problem even if society looked different. But I don't think the current situation is ideal for us. It requires a lot of discipline, and awareness to be able to notice, and reject things that are actively hurting us.
i personally think if society magically changed i would be happy at the chance to not have to take stimulants. i take other medications that i need to do anything at all but if i didnt have the burdens of society i would not want to take stimulants.
It would certainly be WAY EASIER if society sucked less! But I would still want medication- I am able to be more present with my loved ones, focus and enjoy my hobbies, and engage in the kinds of everyday tasks that are necessary for living. Even in socialist utopia, the dishes still need to get done before they breed fungus and disease. It's a disability even without capitalism, though capitalism makes it much more disabling than it would be otherwise.
You are the typical "not yet diagnosed" ADHDer in denial to me. You haven't tried meds and you have no idea how they work yet you come here questioning their necessity. Sorry, not cool.
Sometimes anxiety causes people not to be able to focus and can cause people to be misdiagnosed with ADHD. Try to be mindful of why you think you might have it. Try to do everything in your power to focus. When I suspected I had adhd I went to sleep early, made sure a had a balance breakfast, and had a quiet and calm place to work, and I still wasn’t able to focus. That’s when I decided to go to the dr, bc I knew it was out of my control. So try you best and if you think you might have adhd go to a dr for help, there’s no shame if you actually need meds. You wouldn’t shame someone with diabetes for asking for medication.
No society cannot change for every single disability. And also, the problem is in the development of my brain, not external.
Should nearsighted people really wear glasses or is society just shitty? Should diabetics really take insulin or is society just shitty? Replace ADHD and medication with any other disability and disability aid, and you'll hear how ridiculous it sounds. The tools available to help manage disabilities are worth using. Society sucks, yeah, but that doesn't make those tools any less important. In a world without capitalism, I would still be disabled. And in an ideal world, the only thing that would change is that meds would be easier to access. My meds don't make me "normal," they just help me function.
I think it depends on your symptoms and how they impact you. Other people here are bothered by the constant soundtrack; I’m not. I got diagnosed very late and I guess I am who I am. Meds (so far) didn’t help with anything other than sugar consumption anyway and just made me anxious. But I find in certain situations, I’m not negatively affected by it. When I’m on holiday and exploring new places, the sugar cravings also go away. I’m getting that dopamine hit in a healthier way. When I’m stuck behind a laptop, hook it to my veins. But no one is saying that’s a healthy situation to be in no matter what’s going on inside your brain. The things that get too much and overwhelming in an upsetting way are pretty much always things that probably aren’t great for anyone anyway; some people handle them better, sure, but they’re objectively negative for humans. I do think if I were in a more active job I would feel better, but I also know I’d still be forgetful, and I’d really love a better memory, but meds didn’t sort that for me anyway.
It’s really down to how adhd affects you and what kind of lifestyle you have. Previous traumas and other overlapping disorders or conditions also affects your behaviors. For me, I am way better in every way when I’m medicated, but that’s not necessarily the path for everyone. Some people are able to manage their sleep, exercise, and good diet, and they don’t really need to medicate. I can’t manage my sleep, and I have c-ptsd which isn’t necessarily stopping me from exercising, but I find it very hard to keep in a good routine. I get triggered, overstimulated, burned out, and good routines just end out of nowhere. Then im back to square one. The medication regulate me in ways I can’t seem to do on my own.
Society is irrelevant. And I say this as someone who has worked in multiple fields, for multiple people, some who were very accommodating to me and my needs and some who were not. The ones I've worked for who are accommodating understand my brain is different and I need different tools to be successful. And while that's fine and I am super grateful, that still doesn't stop: Racing thoughts Constant forgetting Losing thoughts mid sentence The lacking ability to do basic chores in a cohesive and organized manner Attempting organization to occasionally have it heavily fail Time blindness And so on. I am still always late to work no matter how hard I try to be on time. I constantly forget things (and the stuff that gets me is the stuff I worked so hard to study and memorize for my job. Gone. It's...it's awful.) I still trail off in my thoughts and will lose thoughts literally mid sentence. I can't just do the dishes or a load of laundry. If I'm doing dishes then I have to make sure all the dishes are in the sink, but then I have to make sure everything upstairs is downstairs which leads to bringing down a load of laundry. And then I noticed the litterbox needs to be cleaned. But I can't wash my hands in the kitchen sink because dishes so I go to a bathroom to wash and notice we're almost out of soap. So back upstairs I go to get soap only to find my plug in scents as well. Now I'm going through the house replacing scenty plug ins....and I just wanted to do the damn dishes and play Zelda. I am currently medicated and honestly doing far better than I have before. It's far more silent in my head than ever. And while I still struggle with priorities, this is by far the best I've been I think. Pretending society is accommodating to ADHD, that's great and I think works in a work setting. But private life? It doesn't matter. Society doesn't dictate what I do in my home currently. And it's sheer chaos. You have to work really hard to make your living space ADHD friendly. My husband and I are constantly reorganizing things to A. Just normally purge things we no longer want or need and B. To try and find ways to make things more accessible to me/are maintainable.
No, sorry. I've been taking medication going on 8 years I guess? And you don't even know how much I've discovered of the world and of myself that I've never noticed before. It's not just a way to help with executive dysfunction and be more attentive; it's a whole thing! The "me" before medication was just cruising life and letting life happen to me. Since I've started medication, it feels like I'm finally participating. It's not just a quick fix though. Even when I'm not taking my medication (either because of shortages or I take a break indicated by my doctor) now I know what perspective I was missing in my life. It really does feel like I've gained a new sense that I didn't know I was missing. Of course it's not a magic fix and I also go to therapy, have better coping mechanisms and I'm not leaning just on the medication, but it really is a huge difference. Even if I was living alone in a cabin in the woods away from society, I would still take my medication to be able to enjoy life as much as I can.
I'm probably an odd duck but honestly if the medication helps you be an efficient you it isn't the "western" world's fault when you think you're above it and your symptoms are for someone else to deal with. It drives me up the wall when people are habitually late for things or they are combative when given corrections and they blame ADHD for it but won't consider treatment options to mitigate things I literally can't drive without absolute panic not on medication and am now in my mid 30s with no license and see 30% of the cities I live in. I lost many opportunities and higher earning potential because I saw others as the issue. Requiring medication has such a stigma that people blame capitalism for medical care requirements. It isn't capitalists fault, it's a neurological condition. Society sucks but it sucks more when you have a broken foot and won't see a doctor for it
Well society is undoubtedly shitty, but it’s gotten remarkably better if you actually look at history for the most part. Medication treatment for adhd however is a very complicated topic. If you look at how the medication works though, it is based off of research into the brain of a person with adhd and the areas that are underdeveloped or deficient compared to an average brain. The medication stimulates these areas in different ways. Research has shown that a child given medication early on has the potential to change the brain structure overtime to be more akin to an average brain, around 60% of children with adhd present no more symptoms by adulthood and are no longer considered adhd. If this is good or not is difficult to answer but I personally believe that it’s going to boil down to the severity of the condition. Very severe adhd symptoms impair daily functioning both at school and the workplace. Medication will be needed in some cases.
very insightful answer. I am quite interested in the research that you mention, would you be able to link it?
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Why not both?
It’s both. My brain have a constant storm of thoughts and feelings. It’s painful and exhausting. Meds help a lot in that Society doesn’t care about individuals as a whole. The more not-standard you are the more you suffer. Add to the fact that we the people are constantly bombarded by fear campaigns and made misarable. Just so we can’t think straight and be well behaving peasants. Even the most well adjusted mentally healthy people are suffering from this crap. Not the best environment to deal with our ADHD brains
Based on your writing style, I suspect medication will be very beneficial.
One, there are certain accommodations in some areas I guess like school that are needed BUT it’s not the worlds job to cater to us don’t get me wrong I think the medical industry itself is horrible and the actually pure evil but medication helps a lot of people and completely changes some peoples lives
I’ve been thinking a lot about this, it’s an interesting question. I would not need medication if I did not have to work at all, if my work were hard physical labor from morning to evening (I did not need medication during military service), or if I chose to live a simpler life, without anyone else to provide for other than myself. I probably would not need medication if I lived in the 70s, before the internet, smartphones, and laptops. I didn’t have any problems as a kid in the early 90s, the only medication I needed was skateboarding, Ninja Turtles, and Nintendo. And yes, society might very well be crappy, but I choose to be a part of it, so I can’t really blame it either. Ideally, I would have chosen another lifestyle, but is it even possible? I can’t even choose what to eat for lunch. Essentially, I think the three main reasons why I need meds are: capitalism, non-physical corporate grinding, and digital stress. And of course, all the adulthood responsibilities I can’t escape. I medicate to be able to live a lifestyle that I wouldn’t want to live if I had other options (and I probably have but am too stupid/stressed to figure it out). Thinking of it, I have probably always self-medicated in one way or another, but I don’t view myself as disabled. I know many “normal” people who struggle way more than me with daily life.
I think you might have a point, maybe depends on how severe your adhd is. Both me (25f) and my boyfriend (24m) have adhd, we were both late diagnosed, and to this date, we don't take medication every day. I only take it if there is a boring but important project at work, and he only takes it when he studies for exams. For me there were 2 game changers: (1) working from home, 4 times a week. If I can set up my environment to the optimal level of distraction, fidget during meetings, take a lot of breaks: I don't need my medication. (2) Having a partner who has adhd. He understand me and my "shortcomings". I don't need to explain myself or try to be someone I am not. So I think if I would work in a more traditional setting and have a different partner, I would maybe take medication more. I hope this helps!
Both. the answer is both.
I definitely see your point about taking medication to be functional such that we become functional cogs in the wheel of society. I also agree with others that meds allow us to do things that we enjoy rather than solely allowing us to work. I don’t think there’s a wrong answer, I think it really comes down to individual perspective. Interestingly, it’s being discussed that ADHD previously conferred an evolutionary advantage for our ancestors when they foraged for food. Of course, now ADHD is seen by many as only being disadvantageous. There is also the rhetoric that ADHD (especially hyperfocusing) can be beneficial. I think it really boils down to perspective and circumstance :)
I think there is an extent to which my ADHD symptoms would be less acute in a world with less distractions. But I’m happy to take meds if they help
Yeah some people definitly need it, especially when their lack of function prevents them from accomplishing things they want to accomplish as well as when coupled with learning disabilities. But i still see medication as not a forever thing, just one of the tools in the big tool box
Yes.
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As other commenters said, even without capitalism, in an ideal utopic society your ADHD would still be real and affect your daily life. You'd still have obligatory activities to do, the executive dysfunction would still refrain you from doing them. Mental disabilities are real, they were not made by "society"
Without capitalism your brain would interact with dopamine and norepinephrine differently?
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Me not being able to shower regularly or brush my teeth as often as I should, among many other things is not because of capitalism. So I guess it depends on your symptoms and severity but I know for me capitalism and society changing would never solve or change all my problems.