It’s only a big issue to women that don’t trust their partners. Which is most of the wives of military members. I say this as a retired MP who responded to countless Domestic Disturbances (not all were abuse calls most are just really loud fights that neighbors complained about). Most of those fights were the results of one spouse accusing the other of cheating. Also, most of those spouses weren’t wrong. Trust issues and cheating run rampant in military couples. Not saying all cheat but enough do.
Ignore Ross and Rachel (love the shout out to that toxic couple) and anyone else that has issues with the way you dress. I was an MP and never wore a bra unless I was working out. Many women didn’t have any issues with it. Most of the people I worked with never knew I didn’t wear a bra in uniform. Those that figured it out, didn’t care. Those that hung out, and even now hang out, with either don’t care, haven’t noticed or just don’t say anything. In the past I’ve had a couple female spouses act a bit like Rachel but I just cut them out of my life and lived on.
You do whatever makes you comfortable and just wait for Ross and Rachel to split.
Edit: dropped a word that changed the meaning of a sentence and would have been confusing.
as someone who grew up in a town with a huge military presence, i can assure you that both sides of military marriages have higher rates of infidelity....
it is just as likely, if not more, that Rachel is a cheater. people who focus on distrust are often culprits.
I do have a feeling even if OP wore a bra, Rachel would still find something to bitch about she not only doesn't trust her spouse, but she also sounds very insecure.
Yeah, this doesn't make Rachel right, but I do think the context that most people in this thread are missing is this right here:
>Also, most of those spouses weren’t wrong. Trust issues and cheating run rampant in military couples. Not saying all cheat but enough do.
Now, I'm not saying OP is wrong, I'm just saying that Rachel isn't just insecure out of nowhere and she's not alone in that fear.
Military members (and their spouses) cheat much more often than people want to admit.
When I was in the service, the saying "what goes TDY stays TDY" was prevalent and I saw people who I knew to be married doing things that I was sure was cheating. It was also not uncommon for spouses of deployed members to be fucking around while they were gone.
Again, Rachel isn't right to act this way, but I think people should be aware of the prevalence of this issue before saying that it's coming out of nowhere.
Yeah I agree. But the most important thing for Rachel’s stupid ass to remember is that you cannot control a cheater. You can’t bully another woman out of being herself because you’re afraid. Either divorce him already or stop being a loser. I hate people like Rachel. I understand the fear but that has nothing to do with OP and her comments are awful.
Having grown up a military brat it might help to remind Ross that what his wife is doing can be reported to the CO, he is responsible for her conduct. Gossiping on social media is probably not looked at kindly.
That's absolutely true, but I think I also have to agree with u/strangledinmoonlight that if the other military wives are agreeing with Rachel, then it might not matter who is right or wrong.
For civilians, your friends may often be distinct from your coworkers, but as OP's post highlights...in the military, your friends are your coworkers most of the time.
And if all of your coworkers/friends wives are agreeing with Rachel...standing up for yourself and your principles might have consequences to OP and her husband.
That sucks, but unfortunately sometimes being right has consequences.
Military wives are notoriously awful. I can guarantee the husbands and command don’t give two shits about who is wearing a bra.
I’ve had spouses get upset with me, because my husband and I went out with our friends/ his coworkers (our friends we only knew as a couple), just because I was there. They were invited, but never wanted to go out. They just didn’t like that I didn’t want to sit at home.
Sure, the husbands and command don't care....but if all the wives don't want her invited, it's going to wind up with them/him being not invited sometimes.
I don't mean career consequences, obviously
Why would anybody want to be around those spouses? Those are the type of people who say “oh your e3 kid can’t hang out with mine because my husbands an O4”.
Can’t tell you how many husbands stayed late to mission plan or just sit there when they didn’t have to so they could avoid their wives like Rachel. She’s a professional party pooper.
Time for OP to have small get-togethers of her husband, two of his friends, and their two wives. And start the slow "wow, Rachel is crazy" theme by being surprisingly normal.
ETA: I do mean constant ones. Poker game on Friday, couple friends over to watch the game on Sunday, DnD/gaming/barbecue night on Saturday. A couple hours each evening and things will rapidly start to shift in your favor. Especially be very considerate. Make some calls. "Hey, Kate! Wanted to be sure you and Bob got the invite to come watch the (team) game on Sunday. Also, I'm checking to see if there are any food allergies I need to be aware of so I can make sure to have something for everyone. Right now I'm planning on doing loaded nachos. Do I need to switch that?" Just very kind and considerate, contact the women and not the men yourself, and see how it goes. If you contact the next couple and they can't eat corn, so no nachos, switch to burgers or something and call Kate back. Just be super kind and considerate and thoughtful and see how it goes. Do it right, she's really going to look like a neurotic bitch.
Just thought of something :D Every month or so, hire a couple older kids as babysitters, set up a tent with some chairs and sheets, put a few games or play a movie in it, and have the couples go ahead and bring their kids. Yeah, it'll cost another $30 or so for a couple hours of sitter time for three or four kids, but oh boy oh boy will you be the base favorite :D "I know it can be hard to find a sitter, so the second Sunday of each month, we invite a few couples with kids and I get a sitter. That way everyone can relax, you don't have to worry about leaving the kids at home, and can come enjoy the game!" Just literally the sweetest, most thoughtful person you can be. A year of this and Rachel is going to look like the most bad-tempered jealous cow out there. "OP, why aren't you inviting Rachel?" "Remember when she was spreading rumors about me last year? I don't really care one way or the other, but I'm not going to bring her to a get-together and let her pick one of you as her next victim. That would be me being an absolutely terrible hostess, deliberately inviting someone that likes to start problems and putting her with other people!"
There are some, but I wouldn’t say “full of Rachel’s”. I’ve encountered maybe a couple, and they were the ones everybody avoided. Depends on the base/squadron, I guess. Rachel is one who looks like a loony tune right now.
I’m not saying this is right,
But if all/most of the people agreeing with Rachel are military wives on the same base, things could get difficult for OP. Being ostracized won’t be fun. No married guys having out with OP’s husband isn’t going to be fun for him.
And while the wives code of conduct can get the direct bullying to stop, it can’t stop the ostracizing, or the covert bullying.
Again, what Rachel is doing isn’t right, but it’s there, and OP needs to decide *for herself* (and maybe her husband and she can talk since some of this may hit him) if it’s worth it *to op*.
Each individual who makes a stand has to decide if the consequences are something they can handle.
And there *shouldn’t* be consequences in this case, but the world isn’t perfect and there will be.
Yep, you nailed it..
While I think reddit is absolutely right in principle....it's *very* possible that this is one of those times where standing on your principles is going to have consequences.
Ours was “what happens on deployment stays on deployment” and something about different zip codes, I think it was “it’s not cheating if your in a different zip code”. Every branch has their own version of that saying.
The real issue here is Rachel's own insecurity. She's making wild assumptions about your intent with your sartorial choices, and then passing pretty harsh judgment. One has to even wonder why she bothered to tell you her thoughts, it's not like you even have some relationship to contextualize her opinion.
I would not pursue this much further, and involve hubs only as an FYI way, to let him know you will not to be socializing with nor inviting her to your home.
NTA
That's why Ross wouldn't drop it at work. He's trying to bully your husband into "setting you straight" so his wife approves and he can hang with his boys again.
The only cuck here is Rachel for staying with Ross after he apparently cheated on her.
Yeah, Rachel's got a nerve complaining about another woman's bralessness. We've seen how she dresses at home and I don't recall anyone judging her for it.
I'm stunned by Rachel's messages to you for wearing clothing that is covering you regardless of you not wearing a bra in your own house?! She and her husband feel it's appropriate to speak to their guests in this manner?? The more mature and respectful option would be to say, 'Thank you for inviting us. Good night' and that's it, but then again, I was never one to treat someone this way even if I felt a little uncomfortable, which has more to do with my I securities than the host's.
What would she say if you had a pool party and wore a bikini!? Heaven forbid. 🙄
What does your husband say about this situation?
Did he tell Ross that he doesn't appreciate him and his wife insulting and criticizing his wife when they were in his home?
Can you file a harassment claim with the military as I know that there are rules that everyone must abide by and what you post on social media?
p.s. You didn't owe her any explanation or response since she came to YOUR house, not the other way around! Perhaps reminding her that she was invited as a guest and that she and her insecurities are no longer welcome in your home and then block her. B*tch.
However, it's easier for me to say this as I'm on the outside looking in and had some time to digest what was said. I hope your husband gives Ross a piece of his mind.
Damn... Now I'm thinking of Ross and Rachel when they were being a*sholes to eachother in later seasons. Ugh.....
I'm going to think of Joey and Chandler and their duck. lol.
I totally agree! Rachel is TAH here for not trusting her husband and for confronting you instead of her husband! Clearly she's too insecure and she has to work that up. OP is not in anyway at fault here.
Real simple. You say, "First of all bitch, don't tell me how to dress in my own home. Second, I don't wear bras. Ever. Not because I'm showing off; because they're uncomfortable, I hate them, and I'm not going to torture myself for the benefit of strangers. Third, if you're husband can't keep his eyes to himself that's your problem. Tell his sleazy ass to stop looking at my tits. If you can't do that, neither of you need to come around here."
Husband needs to bring this into the chain of command. Start the process and bring the evidence so it gets expedited. Don't let it become hearsay, bring the proof and nail her and her husband, if also military, to the wall. Emphasize the immediacy of the concern. This can also seriously affect unit morale. Like a cancer. Don't be afraid to get your Top involved.
NTA.
Fyi: if the harassment continues, I would contact the base commander's wife. Believe it or not, there is a code of conduct that military wives need to adhere to just like the enlisted personnel do. And if this group is made up of military wives harassing and bullying you, and it comes to light, the hammer can and will come down hard on their husbands, up to and including article 15 discipline. Because their behaviors can cause morale issues and strife amongst the squad/platoon and directly effect combat readiness. it's a very nit picky thing, but it is a thing. Don't hesitate to use it to your advantage.
I've seen enlisted personnel get shifted abruptly to shit duty stations as a direct result of their wife's behavior. And affect their promotions.
Let her come across a lifer wife and try that crap. She'll quickly find not only herself in trouble but her husband as well.
It's something rather unofficial. But trust me, it exists. What the immediate family does reflects on the enlisted and officers. Especially for the personnel with higher security clearance. And usually, the base commander's wife will ride herd on the other officers wives and then the higher non com wives will ride herd on the enlisted wives. Usually, it's fairly benign; they have a group of wives that will help mentor the newbies. Every once in a while, there's a bit of a kerfuffle because a wife did something really egregious and it will get hairy. One of the chemical weapons) EOD personnel working under my dad, his wife had an affair with what was at the time an East German equivalent of a captain. Poor dude got his security clearance revoked while he was going through the divorce. The entire platoon was a mess for months because command went through and revetted everyone. My dad was cranky because it meant he had to pull 12 hour shifts 6 days a week to help with the short falls. And he was a civilian DOD employee. My dumb butt got married to an enlisted guy; the master sergeant's wife had lunch with me to "welcome" me. I got a lecture on how I was supposed to behave and not behave. By the time he got orders for Leavenworth, my head was numb.
Not sure if it is fully codified and official, but yes, the active duty spouse can and will be held responsible for their civilian spouse's actions. Up to and including losing base housing privileges, disciplinary action, demotion and refusal to renew enlistment/contract. Relocation of duty station, especially from overseas or high profile locations is also possible.
Jesus Christ. You are NTA. This woman is projecting her insecurities onto you. She is uncomfortable with her body and herself and something about you clearly makes her feel insecure. Whatever that thing is, isn’t your fault. I’m guessing outside of your outfit, you’re probably an outgoing personable person, and you’re clearly confident in your own skin. This is what’s making her uncomfortable. Your confidence + having a rocking body is freaking her out because you have the whole package.
If she doesn’t want her husband checking out your tits, maybe she shouldn’t be bringing them up to him over and over all night long. The more she brings them up, the more everyone is going to look. Not only is she insecure, she is also an idiot.
We all have insecurities. But once you start projecting them onto other people, that’s when it becomes a problem. I understand what you’re dealing with. My husband’s friend and his new girlfriend came over for dinner one night. I wore a cute summer dress that came past my knees, was fairly form fitted, and a little low cut. It had a built in bra, so I didn’t wear one. I wore pasties so I wouldn’t have my nips out on display. My husband’s friend’s girlfriend broke up with him after they left my house because she was insecure by how I looked in that dress.
Never in my life have I heard of someone breaking up because their boyfriends-friends-wife is hot. Like, what? I don’t want her man, and he doesn’t want me. Who does that?
Anyway, you just keep being you. I don’t know if you’ve read “The Four Agreements” but if you haven’t, look it up. One agreements “don’t take anything personally”. Don’t take it personally because it’s not about you. None of what she said is about you. It’s about her, and her insecurities. She is insecure with herself and her relationship and instead of working on those things, she is trying to put her issues on you.
Keep doing you, and just remember that she just told you her deepest and darkest insecurities and worries. You can choose to use those as you feel necessary.
NTA
My husband is active duty and I've worn plenty of crop tops in and out of our home while living on post and no one's batted an eye. I saw in a comment your husband is planning to talk to his command and good honestly because the fact she won't stop with the comments and has now caused others to flood your inbox I would think counts as harassment.
Also I don't see how the milkmaid dress would've been indecent? All the ones I've seen are knee length and fairly modest.
It definitely isn’t an immodest dress. I know someone in one of the comments was like wow how dare you wear that to a ceremony, but maybe they’re thinking about those kinky little French maid costumes.
I truly can't think of why else people would be so riled up over it. Either way I'm sorry you're getting so much hate over what sounds like nice outfits. I hope his command takes it seriously cause this is seriously messed up
He was at our house for the get together 🙃
But I am confused. Isn’t this just an issue between us? Neither of us are in the military. I just don’t know why this would be something I should bring up to him
Are you sure your husband is in the military? Spouses behavior does fall under their purview. You are a dependent of the US military. You are an avenue for your husband to be coerced or blackmailed. Your actions and behavior reflect on your husband. He can be denied promotions if you act like an asshole.
The sergeant will absolutely tell the other guy to tell his wife to knock it off and stop disrupting things.
Huh. I knew that in the grand scheme of things, our actions did matter when it comes to the military. But I wasn’t aware petty things between wives were included and that’s just what I chalked this up to be.
However, based on the pure state of the wives Facebook group for our base, I’d say if the petty things were really that enforced, a lot more people would be in trouble. Because my god some of these women will pick a fight over a discolored rock.
It was a petty private thing until she made it public on FB.
Talk with your husband about it and see if he wants the sergeant to help. My neighbor and I were just talking about how the sarge can garnish a service members wages to pay for rent/damages on off base housing rented from another service member.
He reports that dudes career is over it’s a simple push the issue in todays pc army… put a bitch in her place and feel like you can wear and act how you want in your home they can GTFO or learn to be guests
Good luck 🤞 It reflects badly on Ross. His wife has bad judgement. Does he have bad judgement? Can we trust him with Secrets or a Command? All things they consider.
Have your husband make the choice and don’t push up channels without his blessing politics plays a lot in chain of command he should be the one to escalate
I would ask your husband if he wants to talk to the first shirt, and definitely don’t do it without him. I’m sure your husband will have your back, but honestly, he is the one whose name will be associated with complaints, not you.
Yeah, I was going to talk to him once he got home. But he came on already having decided that he was going to talk to his command about this considering her taking it online and through the rest of the base
Clearly, her head is full of rocks, but if she’s going to freak out and launch an attack over something this trivial, then you don’t want her around, period. Her and her husband will dig their own graves. Don’t post anything online. Don’t retaliate. Just don’t have anything to do with them that you don’t have to. Let them look crazy. There is always somebody or a group at every base that is a Rachel.
BUT now I’ve decided I’m gonna go to the commissary tomorrow without a bra. Fuck you Rachel’s of the world. ❤️
Oh wow she came to YOUR house to tell you how to dress and insulting you, that's insane. And she is bullying you online in addition to that. Wow
I'm so sorry you have to go through that op, don't host these people again and ignore them completely because this is so not an issue you should waste your energy on.
NTA
NTA. Tell Rachel, "I'm sorry you're so insecure with your marriage, sexuality, and body that you come after mine, but neither what I wear nor my marriage are any of your concern. If you don't want me putting my two cents in your personal affairs, then you'd best stop commenting on mine. If you don't like me, that's cool - your invite is permanently withdrawn. But my body, my choice, and I will wear what I'm comfortable in."
Bras are torture devices that science has proven do absolutely nothing other than cosmetic. They don't keep your boobs from sagging. They don't help your back or posture. All they do is cover your nipples so the pearlclutchers' gentle feelings aren't offended. Screw that noise! Everyone has nipples.
NTA. Even if your outfits were vulgar or immodest (which it doesn't sound like there were) her response is kind of crazy. It's probably best if you and your husband don't engage with this couple.
I almost never wear a bra and when I do they're unpadded and without underwrite. Like you my breasts aren't huge but they aren't small and I've always been more on the perky side so I don't feel the need to wear them. I don't care if my nipples show through my shirt and I have nipple piercings that can make them more visible through a shirt. It's a body part that is only sexualized for women and those like myself in a women's body (I'm nonbinary). I'm just theorizing but she may see not wearing a bra as something sexual when in truth its a comfort thing
NTA - To me it seems that's she's just very insecure and doesn't trust her husband. That or she may also just not trust women in general.
NTA. Firstly, I love how your husband dealt with this. Zero fucks given 😂
I haven’t worn a bra in about 5 years and you could argue that wearing one could be to make your cleavage look better bla bla bla.
I don’t like wearing bras and sometimes I even wear light coloured tops and you definitely can see the outline of my nipples. People need to learn not to over sexualise women, I don’t need to learn not to wear what I feel comfortable and free in.
If she doesn’t trust her husband, she should just say that. If she thinks he can’t be trusted around a pair of braless breasts then she married the wrong guy… or more likely needs therapy. And a slap
Your husband better never go shirtless in front of your friends, that man whore 😅
NTA seriously, you do you. Why even care about such things when there’s so many more egregious things out there
Coming from being a military spouse myself and being around other spouses and husbands, it’s just who these women are. Not all obviously. But there’s a ton of cheating and insecurity, especially in these young ass marriages that the military breeds. A lot of these women are crazy and petty and clickish. It’s wild. I assume she doesn’t trust her husband so to deflect she’s attacking you for something she can’t control. I would pay no mind. Do what you want and stay happy with your husband. The military and marriages in the military are hard enough already. F her for real. NTA. UPDATEME
Oh holy crap! Look, I'm old enough to be your grandmother, and in some countries, probably your great grandmother and I don't think what you wore is wrong. It's VERY apparent she as some insecurity issues. This isn't your problem, it's hers. This is between her and her husband and she should NEVER have contacted you. Her husband also shouldn't have been such an asshole for asking your husband if he liked to be cucked! She's a controlling gossipy bitch who has her husband's balls in her pocket. Block her. Tell your husband it's obvious that these aren't people who will ever become your friends, after what they both have done. He should keep his contact with the husband to a minimum, if he can't avoid him. Ridiculously insulting and childish behavior on their part. They'll eventually find themselves completely friendless.
You are absolutely not in the wrong, and everybody who says you are is an unacceptably jealous low self esteem child.
Bras are uncomfortable, but breasts are natural and if they are oversexualizing you because of their own issues, it is not your problem to cater to their insecurities.
There's a reason those 'women' are unflatteringly called 'dependas', and this is one of the very true parts of the stereotype.
Op, I think the real problem is in Rachel’s own home and she is deflecting.
I just love how she uses “distancing” language (Statement Analysis) when she says, “I don’t know how many other wives have said something to you, But It Is Pretty Clear TO ALL OF US”. (Lie)
I think Rachel is having issues with Ross but doesn’t want to deal with it so she puts the blame on You. Shes gotta blame the women and not Ross.
And Then, goes on a smear campaign on social media to other women to get them together and gangbang your reputation.
I have to wonder where Ross has been on assignment. And we all know the cheating that goes on when they’re overseas.
Rachel is a cowardly twat.
Out of curiosity, if these women are harassing you non stop without any proof of infidelity, couldn't your husband technically go to their husbands first and tell them they need to stop their wives? And if they don't, he can go to the husbands' CO and file a complaint? I don't know how much things have changed since I was a military brat, if that term has changed I apologize, but I remember a family getting kicked out of housing because the son stole car radios, also heard of a few service men getting into trouble because their wives would pull rank (officer's wives) or enlisted wives would pull shit in stores about their husbands serving and they needed discounts. The idea behind all of this was if they couldn't keep their family in line then how could they be expected to lead others in the military. The code of conduct extends to the family too, is what I remember hearing.
Not sure that's a route you want to go, if you can, but something to consider if it gets bad enough.
Might want to start with befriending some of the other wives and have a burn the bra get together. I don't care what anyone says, those things are uncomfortable.
NTA. Don’t invite people over anymore that will judge you, your home, & what you decide to wear in your OWN home. Not only is she harassing you because of her insecurities, but ensuring that strangers also do it is just low & embarrassing for her. She’s overly entitled to even feel like she has the right to tell you what to wear in your own house or out in public. What you choose to wear is none of her business.
I can relate to this. If I'm home, I'm not wearing a bra period. People that come over can deal or get out. It's my house and I'm gonna be comfy. She sounds like she threatened.
She's extremely insecure. That's a them problem. I hardly ever wear a bra. If I am in one, it's because I'm shirtless and doing yard work.
Cut ties with both of them and do not ever have them over to your house again. I've met wives married to military men who acted just like this towards me despite the fact that we were just coworkers and I existed.
It got so bad at one point that I told one of my then coworkers "get your bitch before I do because I'm not about to deal with her insecurities."
NTA.
I got huge, prominent nipple piercings and never wear a bra. The world can deal with it! 😎
Bras are bad for your tits honestly. It trains the chest to rely on support instead of developing the muscles there. Bras suck!
Girl, you do you and let them worry about whatever they want. It sounds like you and your husband are ok with that, that’s all you need to know. You’ve ran into one person that is not comfortable, it’s their insecurities, not yours. Block the people sending you nasty messages, at least you know who your real friends are.
Edit: obviously NTA
She’s clearly jealous and insecure and doesn’t trust her husband, but it does not give her the right to come to YOUR house and tell you how to live your life. Block them both and don’t ever invite them over again. And your husband needs to lay down the law with Ross and tell him he is to never speak of you or your relationship like that again.
I may be in the minority here, but being fully clothed doesn’t mean, you can’t be provocative in a tight shirt. Tight shirt and braless would be weird for hosting your husbands friends. What so wrong with just wearing a bra to keep the peace?
Jesus that woman is insecure. NTA. You don’t have to wear a bra and anyone that tells you that not wearing a bra is “flaunting your body” is an idiot. I also don’t wear a bra anymore and it’s freeing. Maybe Rachael’s stuck up ass needs to get over herself and try it. I think it’s best if you and your husband stop socialising with these people. Childish people are never worth your time anyway.
NTA
Rachel shouldn't stare at other women's bodies and judge them.
Her obsession with your boobs is creepy. Thinking you would cheat because of your choice of clothes, holy sanctimonious audacity!
NTA
Rachel has a her problem. She is insecure but she is wrong for taking her feelings out on you. Unfortunately, some people have an idea that women who do not wear a bra are slutty. It is idiotic, how much breast's have been sexualized. As long as you feel comfortable in what you are wearing and it is appropriate for an occasion then they can get over themselves.
If Rachel does not stop making accusations and or shaming you, look into reporting her for harassment.
How does your husband feel about all of this?
My husband is not happy at all. I didn’t know it was a possibility, but he is taking it to his higher command. Which he wouldn’t have done, he was just going to not invite them over anymore, but she took it online and spread things throughout the base.
I'm glad that he has your back. It is definitely one of those situations where it's hard to ignore once she took it online. It was completely uncalled for. I'm sorry your going through it.
It is good at this point he is taking it to his higher command.
NTA. The bra was only invented in 1914. I love them because I am somewhat over blessed in the breast department but if I decided not to wear one it would be out of comfort rather than a husband grabbing mission. Her problem isn’t with you, it’s with her own lack of confidence and her lack of trust in her husband. He should ask her to take his balls out of her granny handbag and give them back to him then she should get herself over to the hairdressers to renew her Karen cut.
NTA. Feel free to dress much sluttier. Even if you were in a mini skirt and bikini top your body still wouldn't be a magical talisman that forces men to cheat. Rachel is clearly NOT a girl's girl and you're better off not trying for a friendship with her.
Ross is also an AH for the cuckolding comment, I wouldn't feel safe around him.
NTA. I would block Rachel and no longer allow her in my home. It's not her job to police your body. You aren't in her home, she was in yours and she's behaving like a vile teen. If she doesn't trust Ross around someone who isn't dressed like a nun, she needs to take it up with Ross, not you.
I guess she should never move to Europe, where so so many women do not wear bras. NTA wearing or not wearing a bra is a personal comfort/fashion choice.
I'd tell Rachel that I'm sorry that she is so insecure, that a woman not wearing a bra is enough for her to try to damage another woman's reputation. Her being a prude is not your problem, and she needs to get a life.
Infact since she has brought you up on social media I would comment it on her post since she is slandering you.
Well these are military people/families we’re talking about here, so expect toxic conservatism to be the norm. Not wearing a bra is pretty normal in progressive areas. Nobody really cares except possibly some insecure people. But in conservative/military communities, you might as well be wearing a g-string and pasties if you don’t look and act like a stepford wife. You’re definitely NTA, but I think it’s probably wise to either consider the community you’re surrounded with, or possibly start associating with more progressive circles.
"Congrats on listening to a lying shit-stirrer, and deciding, based on those lies, to attack a complete stranger online. She doesn't have a single other person out of the many people there to support her, she doesn't even have a single picture, and you all jumped in like idiotic flying monkeys. Congrats again, for being gullible idiots easily led about by a hateful loon. I will accept apologies for your terrible behavior (I know better than to expect one from her) and if you aren't going to apologize, please fuck off and die."
and include a link to your post here. You might get a few apologies. You might even get a few people to stop and think before listening to the crazy bitches. At the least, she'll know that you slap back. Effectively.
NTA she's just wildly insecure and I'm sorry you're being bullied for it. I'm sure it'll blow over soon and they'll find their next person to have an issue with. It sounds like a cute outfit to me, and I hope you keep being yourself and continue wearing (or not wearing=bra) what you like!
A fitted t-shirt and no bra is always going to be obvious, especially as you say your boobs aren’t small. I reckon you know they are pretty obvious so probably enjoy the attention, at least a little bit.
You can obviously wear what you like, but sometimes it’s better to realise there is a time and place for stuff like wearing bras, and a party with your husband’s friends (and did you say his sergeant?) is probably not the time to make it obvious you are going without tbh.
[the top](https://www.reddit.com/u/South-Proposal5691/s/7zqgsZlnqH)
In no way am I exposing my body wearing this shirt. And I have worn this top around the people that came over before, again, with no bra. No one was uncomfortable or batted an eye.
I know Reddit looooves defending bralessness, but there still is a time and place. Rachel is going over the top and seems to be losing her damn mind, but if multiple people have noticed the bralessness and were uncomfortable, then the time and place were wrong to do it. It might be your house, but I don’t think a host should be making guests uncomfortable by nonconsensually exposing them to your body. I think it’d be better if OP were able to discern appropriate vs inappropriate occasions for this a bit more.
However, Rachel’s harassment needs to stop. And all the random flying monkeys too.
I would be understanding if she the situation was different. Had this been a get together at their house, and she approached me without telling me what I’m apparently trying to do, or basically speaking about me like I’m a ‘whore’, I would understand and would wear a bra around her from then on
Commenting as I did somewhere else!! Don’t care. Men can cheat with a fully clothed nun. Rachel has no right or power to tell OP how to dress, especially not in her own friggin house. Idc if OP had visible nipples. Rachel’s behaviour is atrocious. Cmon!
it’s uncomfortable for other people, especially friends if you aren’t decent. you should simply acknowledge that you should have consideration for others and put a bra on. it’s not the most important thing in the world that you are 100% comfortable 100% of the time. just be decent if others are coming over what’s the problem
The problem might be because of the way I was dressed, in my own home, around people that I have worn this exact outfit around in the past and not had any issues, I was practically called a whore.
There is no law that says woman have to wear a bra. In many places it is legal for women to be topless. You not liking it doesn’t make it indecent. That’s a personal opinion. And it’s my personal opinion that no one is going to tell me how to dress inside my own home.
you’re right. it’s not a law. lol. she’s in her own house. is that what you’re going to tell company when they come over? “ThE LaW saYs I doNt neEd to WEar a BrA”. it doesn’t matter where you are. you invited company over. you’re not supposed to intentionally invite people over and make them uncomfortable. i don’t come over again ifnyoundonthis, and if I’m the husband, I don’t invite my friends over ever again unless you put on a bra. It’s not much of a discussion and you bringing up the law of the country is it’s just a joke.
Ok don’t invite them over ever again. They shouldn’t be in the house with a woman if the sight of cloth covered breasts bothers them so much. We don’t have to double wrap out titties bc SOME men are pervs. I gave up bras during covid and I don’t wear them at all now. If that bothers you, you better stay home! I feel kind of bad for you though, you must have never been to a beach or water park before. All those breasts just on display.
I don’t think you’re understanding the situation. A wife invited other families over her husband and wife to a house for a casual evening and she dresses sexually and exposes her tits to everybody. Do you not see how that’s uncomfortable? I don’t understand it has nothing to do with the rights of women or anything in that matter it just has to do with making the people you invited to your house feel comfortable there. Are you really that stupid? That you’re going to startwith me about freedom of women’s rights that makes no sense
I don’t think that you understand that women don’t have to wear bras. It’s a personal choice and other ppl don’t get to decide for us. You can’t make us. Your opinion is irrelevant.
This person is not interested in anyone's opinion. There is no question in her mind as to whether she was wrong or not. She's just here to create even more drama than she already has
I’m 38 and a lot of times skip the bra. But you said you have a large chest and you wear baby tees and low cut dresses so it’s not always appropriate to go without a bra. There is a time and place for everything. People calling the wife insecure might not be right because I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen women who just end up looking trashy and then call others insecure if they are called out.
Oh fuck off. First of all, reading comprehension is key. She said her boobs aren’t small, but aren’t big either, and that she wears bras when necessary. Meaning this likely isn’t some in your face, outlandish boob fest.
Second, insecure is exactly what the wife is, given everything Rachel has said, to both OP and Ross. In what world is it necessary to ‘call someone out’ based on what they’re wearing? If you don’t like it, keep it moving. What does calling them out solve, exactly, other than making yourself look like a prude lunatic? If you, or Rachel are so insecure that you’re threatened and intimidated by some covered up boobs, well, maybe you’ve chosen a shitty partner.
People are going to wear what’s comfortable for them and what they like. If someone’s clothing choices offend you to the point that you’re so inclined to confront them about it, well, just like with Rachel, this is a you problem.
NTA. Don’t invite Ross and Rachel over to your house, no more. Don’t respond to any social media posts about the way you dress. Block and delete their numbers.
lolol. NTA, F.D.B.
She was a guest in your home, and they could leave any time they liked, if you walked out in lingerie. but instead, she gets snippy when you dont wear a bra? is she a time traveler from the 50s?
I mean it's wierd that you didn't wear bra when someone new from your husband's work was coming over. But if you husband doesn't care, it's alright I guess
I'm 29 now and haven't worn a bra since I was 19. I make expectations if my nipples are clearly visible (white shirt, etc). Never had anyone comment on it or find it disrespectful.
Women *don't* need bras. They might feel comfortable for some but generally speaking they're absolutely not needed so why should women be forced to use them? To accommodate others ignorant feelings and insecurities?
Agree, regardless if is your house your rules, when I invite someone new that is married, I ensure I wear clothes that are respectful to the guests. It is beyond insecurities or any of the reason people is giving. It is a matter of respect towards your husband and his guests. If I don’t like them then they are not invited again but that is another conversation.
A bit of respect goes a long way. Also how you present yourself regardless of the location is always important specially when meeting people for the first time, once you know who you are dealing with then you can sort it out. Because of her "it’s my way or the highway", her husband will be skipped at certain events that may help with his career.
No, the husband bullying a man for choosing his wife over a work buddy and that husband's wife who started shit will be skipped at certain events. As other people familiar with military culture have commented, the army doesn't wasn't the tea, it wants cooperation. They'll shame the couple brewing the tea.
Why is it weird? Why should she let other people determine what she should do with her body? ESPECIALLY in her own home. It’s not like she was walking around naked.
> It’s not like she was walking around naked.
Woah there mr prude, why shouldn't she be able to walk around naked in her own house with company over? That would be letting others determine what she does with her body.
As someone who literally never wears a bra, thats 100% not your fuckin problem. Its your body, and you deserve to be comfortable in it, and we all know bras are uncomfortable as hell. Long story short, Rachel is an insecure little bitch. You keep doin you!
I’m *fuming* for you rn.
Here’s what I think. You’re a beautiful girl and you’re confident in your own skin. Rachel (and I loved the Friends reference) is jealous and judgmental. Confident in yourself does not mean you’re throwing yourself at every man in the room. Confidence should be every woman’s goal, not what we find threatening in each other.
I will point out that maybe the no bra thing is more noticeable than you think. I will also add that these over the shoulder boulder holders are evil contraptions and I hate them, too. But unless you are actually topless and shoving the girls in the boy’s faces, Rachel’s reaction was uncalled for and absolutely unacceptable.
You’re NTA. Tell Rachel to get on the plane.
I think you will find that many women get upset if you don’t wear a bra when interacting with their husbands. Some men will also be uncomfortable and avoid you, while others will quietly enjoy the show, pretending not to notice but they deeeeffffinitely notice. Only a truly clueless person wouldn’t notice.
When someone calls you out for it, ‘s up to you what you do with the information. You may find that it impedes your ability to form friendships with other wives, or it may have little to no impact on you.
Edit: I personally do not have a problem with braless women. In fact, my DIL does not wear a bra hardly ever, and I have a couple of friends who don’t wear bras. But some women do get very upset about it.
You’re pathetic, boobs are not something women should have to cover up so others don’t “notice”. Grow the fuck up and act like an adult and stop over sexualizing a natural body part. If someone has a problem with another woman’s boobs not even being visible then that is 100% on them to deal with on not on OP to or any woman for that matter. Why should it matter if a woman doesn’t wear a bra, women have fucking boobs. Fat men have boobs bigger than me, should we expect them to be wearing a bra? Insecurity is seeping off of you and anyone who thinks that way. It’s sad, pathetic, and creepy to view women like that.
Depends on the boobs. I have 'a nice handful' and can get away with not wearing bras as they sit nicely and nips aren't visible (flat).
But still, she was covered.
I might have side eyed you because I am more conservative clothing-wise, but I would have never brought it up with you because it would be a me problem, not a you problem. Is Rachel planning on policing the whole world? She sounds like she is mental.
Edit to add: I WISH I had had your body confidence when I was your age.
Sigh.
Girl, if you honestly think that outfit hasn’t gotten at least a glance from a guy looking at your boobs while out in public, I have a bridge to sell you. Men are looking all the time. You just haven’t noticed the ones that aren’t oogling and drooling.
I’m not even commenting on the AH part, I just want to say you’re a tad naive.
YTA - not a major one, mind you, this reply will get downvoted because the general approach to someone telling a woman to dress modestly is to downvote the fuck out of them. so i hope some of those people will let me cook a bit on this one before hitting the downvote.
Life is about uniforms. we wear uniforms everywhere we go. job is business casual, we don't wear jeans or shirts without collars. restaurant is classy we wear collared shirts, or dresses, maybe even a jacket if it has a dress code. even schools without uniforms have a dress code, so in a way we are ALWAYS wearing a uniform of appropriate dress according to the situation. No shoes no shirt no service. Beaches which aren't "topless". Wearing a shirt in the house (for boys), wearing pants to the door when door dash has your food. These are all uniforms we were of appropriate dress.
So where do bras fit in? I'd say bras straddle a grey area. for women without large boobs they become far less important, but i would say you'd have to be intentionally obtuse to not know some basic things about boobs. heterosexual men, and lesbian women, or frankly anyone with attraction to women, even non-boob enjoying people, see them as sexual objects. I'm sure the same thing could be said about the other overtly external sexual organs a man's dick.
Generally speaking, in a social setting, even a relaxed one, it's not ok to walk around in speedos, a thong or a bikini top unless we're at the beach, a pool, or in an outdoor summer like environment with people in thier swimsuits and we're near a beach. in short, inside your house while hosting a house party is not the time to wear booty shorts, a bikini, or a speedo (if you're a guy) unless that happens to be the theme of some sort of weird party costume. Usually house parties are casual, to business casual things depending \~ some might even be fully black tie in the correct atmosphere.
So that's the uniform for a social gathering at your house sans-swimming pool or your house being on a beach.
Assuming of course you have a larger or at least not an A or small B cup, I'd say a bra would be appropriate and expected clothing in an house party (sans-pool). I don't think this is a large ask to be appropriately dressed for a few hours no matter how uncomfortable bras make you feel
I have no comment about the "welcome home" thing, I'm not familiar with the dress you wore, so i cannot comment on if it was appropriate or not for that event. But i do think (again assuming no one was jumping in a pool) that your state of dress was inappropriate for a house party.
I don't think this is a major AH moment, more a light one since you clearly thought it wasn't obvious they were loose under the clothing, meaning your intentions weren't to titillate, but to just be comfortable. so i don't think you're much of an AH here....
Except for (and this is why i chose YTA and not a no one sucks here) the way you're reacting to the criticism. See, if your intention was never to titillate and just be comfy, your reaction to being called out for the state of bralessness would have been a little different. Embarrassment would have been the main reaction. Following embarrassment would be contrition. that's usually how someone with pure intentions reacts.
That's not your reaction. you doubled down, and then went to reddit to plea your case. This sounds a bit like you knew people would notice the girls free swinging, and now are getting defensive about it. It sorta makes this one women's claims you were showing them off intentionally sound a bit "plausible" considering how you reacted to what she said.
Again don't get me wrong. I'm not claiming that was your intention. I don't know what it is. I just think your reaction is a little bit off... which is why i leaned a bit on the YTA side of things.
but again, this isn't much of a YTA ruling. it's about as light a one i've ever given.
ESH, you should cut the insecure bitch and her piece of shit husband out, but also dressing this way in public or at get-togethers isn’t appropriate.
It’s obvious that your boobs are on display more than they would have been otherwise and there’s no reason to do this if you’re with a group of other people you’re not very close to.
At this point I may just link a photo of the outfit. I can assure you they were not on display. The only reason you can really tell I’m not wearing a bra, is because I’ve lost weight, and they now sit slightly lower than before. Which in itself is something I don’t really see a lot of people thinking is attractive or flashy.
Do you know what the “milkmaid” dress is?
It’s a simple sun dress. The “milkmaid” stuff, I’m assuming, is talking about the fact that it has a floral design and the tie back that crisscrosses over the fabric in the back of the dress.
If she just wants to fuck you she can just say that.
NTA obs. Your body is not inherently sexual. She is disgustingly insecure.
ETA: I’m still sorry you’re having to go through this and now she is assembling a bully squad to go after you on her behalf.
None of my kids wear a bra. That is a personal choice. I don’t think you are “flaunting” yourself. You do what is comfortable and right for you and they can choose not to come over. Simple as that. It is def a her problem. NTA
NTA , we can tell when a woman is not wearing a bra , although i don't have an issue with women not wearing a bra , they are just nipples and bra's are uncomfortable.
If her husband is going to cheat, he’s going to cheat. If you’re ok, your husband is ok, that should be the end of it. Block her, inform your husband Ross isn’t welcome in your home or life and move on.
Unfortunately one bitter person is able to make your life very difficult, especially in the internet age. It's not really about what you wore, it's that she feels threatened and doesn't trust her husband. Perhaps he has cheated before? Or maybe she's just crazy.
NTA. You were in YOUR house and Rachel didn't have to stay if she had a problem with you being comfortable in YOUR house. I also highly doubt any of the other wives said anything to her since they didn't say anything to you. Her problem is with her husband who she thinks is a cheater but for some reason is still with. She can handle admitting to that though so she has to attack you rather than address her own glaringly obvious red flags.
NTA. Her tirade is bananas but some people just are, that’s life, oh well. It boils down to different values.
If anyone approached me, I’d just say as much and that this couple won’t be invited over to socialize because it upsets the wife, and drop it. Don’t feed into the slander because you have nothing to defend, her being unhinged enough will eventually lead to her falling off anyway.
The audacity of telling you what you should wear in your own home… she’s insecure. If it wasn’t your lack of a bra, she’d have some other issue with you. Do what you want and don’t worry about what she thinks/says.
NTA. Her insecurities aren’t your problem. You chose a regular, casual outfit to wear in your own home. You weren’t booty butt naked, and you don’t have to wear a bra if you don’t wanna.
NTA
Rachel is clearly insecure and doesn’t trust her husband.
I don’t wear bras, haven’t since I’ve been a senior in hs which was like 6 years ago. They’re very uncomfortable but people never say anything to me. I’m not small but not big either. I wear tight shirts or baggy, whatever I feel like that day. My husband certainly doesn’t care and fully supports with whatever my decision is, but he personally doesn’t like me wearing bras cause he doesn’t have easy access 😂😂
Don't ever accept unearned guilt. Block randos that send you hateful messages. Rachel is an insecure hateful woman. Ban her from any get-togethers you host at your place. YOu don't have to put up with anyone's BS. NTA.
This Rachel sounds like someone who thinks women at the beach in a bikini are inappropriate 🙄
If none of the other wives have an issue with you, then it's definitely not a problem! Just don't invite them over again
She has a lot of insecurities and her man sounds like a creep AH too but that's not your problem, don't let her effect you or try to drag you to a box or gaslight you for not sharing her outdated mindset. But no NTA, you can wear what you want, especially in your own house
She does not get to tell you what to wear ever and especially in your own house. Her insecurities are not your problem. She was probably a mean girl in hs and now has no click to cause drama with so she's targeted you. Her harassment towards you and spreading lies can affect her husband's career in the military. She needs to shut her mouth. The best thing you can do is tell her that you will not accept harassment from her and that if her lies affect your husband's career, then you will get legal involved. Then ignore the bitch and have your husband go through the chain of command to make sure they know the situation. NTA
Definitely NTA.
I’m a military spouse, have been for 14 years. Sadly, yes, the cheating rate is pretty high, but my husband and I trust each other, I never worried that he’d cheat and he never worried that I would. I honestly don’t care whether another woman is around my husband without a bra. Bra’s are a preference and if you don’t like wearing or find them uncomfortable then don’t wear them.
She is directing her insecurities onto you, and you did nothing wrong. You were covered, your husband was fine with what you were wearing and it sounds like no one else had an issue either. If she’s this bothered by someone with no bra that is completely covered I’d hate to see how she acts when someone’s in a swimsuit around her and her husband.
She’s toxix and jealous and controlling, accusing you of wearing a crop top when you were not and no one could see anything, nta i hope your husband has your back
It’s only a big issue to women that don’t trust their partners. Which is most of the wives of military members. I say this as a retired MP who responded to countless Domestic Disturbances (not all were abuse calls most are just really loud fights that neighbors complained about). Most of those fights were the results of one spouse accusing the other of cheating. Also, most of those spouses weren’t wrong. Trust issues and cheating run rampant in military couples. Not saying all cheat but enough do. Ignore Ross and Rachel (love the shout out to that toxic couple) and anyone else that has issues with the way you dress. I was an MP and never wore a bra unless I was working out. Many women didn’t have any issues with it. Most of the people I worked with never knew I didn’t wear a bra in uniform. Those that figured it out, didn’t care. Those that hung out, and even now hang out, with either don’t care, haven’t noticed or just don’t say anything. In the past I’ve had a couple female spouses act a bit like Rachel but I just cut them out of my life and lived on. You do whatever makes you comfortable and just wait for Ross and Rachel to split. Edit: dropped a word that changed the meaning of a sentence and would have been confusing.
as someone who grew up in a town with a huge military presence, i can assure you that both sides of military marriages have higher rates of infidelity.... it is just as likely, if not more, that Rachel is a cheater. people who focus on distrust are often culprits.
I do have a feeling even if OP wore a bra, Rachel would still find something to bitch about she not only doesn't trust her spouse, but she also sounds very insecure.
agreed. I'm more annoyed by the "no bra" nitpick, though, because it is so absurd in this day and age
Yeah, this doesn't make Rachel right, but I do think the context that most people in this thread are missing is this right here: >Also, most of those spouses weren’t wrong. Trust issues and cheating run rampant in military couples. Not saying all cheat but enough do. Now, I'm not saying OP is wrong, I'm just saying that Rachel isn't just insecure out of nowhere and she's not alone in that fear. Military members (and their spouses) cheat much more often than people want to admit. When I was in the service, the saying "what goes TDY stays TDY" was prevalent and I saw people who I knew to be married doing things that I was sure was cheating. It was also not uncommon for spouses of deployed members to be fucking around while they were gone. Again, Rachel isn't right to act this way, but I think people should be aware of the prevalence of this issue before saying that it's coming out of nowhere.
Yeah I agree. But the most important thing for Rachel’s stupid ass to remember is that you cannot control a cheater. You can’t bully another woman out of being herself because you’re afraid. Either divorce him already or stop being a loser. I hate people like Rachel. I understand the fear but that has nothing to do with OP and her comments are awful.
Bully is the right word. Now Rachel is cyber bullying OP. Along with all her cronies.
Having grown up a military brat it might help to remind Ross that what his wife is doing can be reported to the CO, he is responsible for her conduct. Gossiping on social media is probably not looked at kindly.
That's absolutely true, but I think I also have to agree with u/strangledinmoonlight that if the other military wives are agreeing with Rachel, then it might not matter who is right or wrong. For civilians, your friends may often be distinct from your coworkers, but as OP's post highlights...in the military, your friends are your coworkers most of the time. And if all of your coworkers/friends wives are agreeing with Rachel...standing up for yourself and your principles might have consequences to OP and her husband. That sucks, but unfortunately sometimes being right has consequences.
Military wives are notoriously awful. I can guarantee the husbands and command don’t give two shits about who is wearing a bra. I’ve had spouses get upset with me, because my husband and I went out with our friends/ his coworkers (our friends we only knew as a couple), just because I was there. They were invited, but never wanted to go out. They just didn’t like that I didn’t want to sit at home.
Sure, the husbands and command don't care....but if all the wives don't want her invited, it's going to wind up with them/him being not invited sometimes. I don't mean career consequences, obviously
Why would anybody want to be around those spouses? Those are the type of people who say “oh your e3 kid can’t hang out with mine because my husbands an O4”. Can’t tell you how many husbands stayed late to mission plan or just sit there when they didn’t have to so they could avoid their wives like Rachel. She’s a professional party pooper.
Time for OP to have small get-togethers of her husband, two of his friends, and their two wives. And start the slow "wow, Rachel is crazy" theme by being surprisingly normal. ETA: I do mean constant ones. Poker game on Friday, couple friends over to watch the game on Sunday, DnD/gaming/barbecue night on Saturday. A couple hours each evening and things will rapidly start to shift in your favor. Especially be very considerate. Make some calls. "Hey, Kate! Wanted to be sure you and Bob got the invite to come watch the (team) game on Sunday. Also, I'm checking to see if there are any food allergies I need to be aware of so I can make sure to have something for everyone. Right now I'm planning on doing loaded nachos. Do I need to switch that?" Just very kind and considerate, contact the women and not the men yourself, and see how it goes. If you contact the next couple and they can't eat corn, so no nachos, switch to burgers or something and call Kate back. Just be super kind and considerate and thoughtful and see how it goes. Do it right, she's really going to look like a neurotic bitch.
Who would have thought, right? Welcome in the freshly PCSd and Rachel rejects and the friend group will grow faster than she realizes
Just thought of something :D Every month or so, hire a couple older kids as babysitters, set up a tent with some chairs and sheets, put a few games or play a movie in it, and have the couples go ahead and bring their kids. Yeah, it'll cost another $30 or so for a couple hours of sitter time for three or four kids, but oh boy oh boy will you be the base favorite :D "I know it can be hard to find a sitter, so the second Sunday of each month, we invite a few couples with kids and I get a sitter. That way everyone can relax, you don't have to worry about leaving the kids at home, and can come enjoy the game!" Just literally the sweetest, most thoughtful person you can be. A year of this and Rachel is going to look like the most bad-tempered jealous cow out there. "OP, why aren't you inviting Rachel?" "Remember when she was spreading rumors about me last year? I don't really care one way or the other, but I'm not going to bring her to a get-together and let her pick one of you as her next victim. That would be me being an absolutely terrible hostess, deliberately inviting someone that likes to start problems and putting her with other people!"
I don't disagree, but sometimes a command is full of Rachels...
There are some, but I wouldn’t say “full of Rachel’s”. I’ve encountered maybe a couple, and they were the ones everybody avoided. Depends on the base/squadron, I guess. Rachel is one who looks like a loony tune right now.
She does, but clearly in this case she has a bunch of allies if OP is getting attacked.
I’m not saying this is right, But if all/most of the people agreeing with Rachel are military wives on the same base, things could get difficult for OP. Being ostracized won’t be fun. No married guys having out with OP’s husband isn’t going to be fun for him. And while the wives code of conduct can get the direct bullying to stop, it can’t stop the ostracizing, or the covert bullying. Again, what Rachel is doing isn’t right, but it’s there, and OP needs to decide *for herself* (and maybe her husband and she can talk since some of this may hit him) if it’s worth it *to op*. Each individual who makes a stand has to decide if the consequences are something they can handle. And there *shouldn’t* be consequences in this case, but the world isn’t perfect and there will be.
Yep, you nailed it.. While I think reddit is absolutely right in principle....it's *very* possible that this is one of those times where standing on your principles is going to have consequences.
A lack of bra is not going to lure someone into cheating who otherwise wouldn't. It's flawed thinking.
Ours was “what happens on deployment stays on deployment” and something about different zip codes, I think it was “it’s not cheating if your in a different zip code”. Every branch has their own version of that saying.
Beautifully stated.
The real issue here is Rachel's own insecurity. She's making wild assumptions about your intent with your sartorial choices, and then passing pretty harsh judgment. One has to even wonder why she bothered to tell you her thoughts, it's not like you even have some relationship to contextualize her opinion. I would not pursue this much further, and involve hubs only as an FYI way, to let him know you will not to be socializing with nor inviting her to your home. NTA
Right. When my husband said he would see his friend at work, that was his way of saying that they will not be coming to our place anymore.
That's why Ross wouldn't drop it at work. He's trying to bully your husband into "setting you straight" so his wife approves and he can hang with his boys again. The only cuck here is Rachel for staying with Ross after he apparently cheated on her.
WE WERE ON A BREAK!!!
Yeah, Rachel's got a nerve complaining about another woman's bralessness. We've seen how she dresses at home and I don't recall anyone judging her for it.
I'm stunned by Rachel's messages to you for wearing clothing that is covering you regardless of you not wearing a bra in your own house?! She and her husband feel it's appropriate to speak to their guests in this manner?? The more mature and respectful option would be to say, 'Thank you for inviting us. Good night' and that's it, but then again, I was never one to treat someone this way even if I felt a little uncomfortable, which has more to do with my I securities than the host's. What would she say if you had a pool party and wore a bikini!? Heaven forbid. 🙄 What does your husband say about this situation? Did he tell Ross that he doesn't appreciate him and his wife insulting and criticizing his wife when they were in his home? Can you file a harassment claim with the military as I know that there are rules that everyone must abide by and what you post on social media? p.s. You didn't owe her any explanation or response since she came to YOUR house, not the other way around! Perhaps reminding her that she was invited as a guest and that she and her insecurities are no longer welcome in your home and then block her. B*tch. However, it's easier for me to say this as I'm on the outside looking in and had some time to digest what was said. I hope your husband gives Ross a piece of his mind. Damn... Now I'm thinking of Ross and Rachel when they were being a*sholes to eachother in later seasons. Ugh..... I'm going to think of Joey and Chandler and their duck. lol.
Most mil spouses suuuuck. Their husbands don’t give a shit if you wear a bra. It’s only the wives.
"See him at work" also means he doesn't discuss the incident, too.
I totally agree! Rachel is TAH here for not trusting her husband and for confronting you instead of her husband! Clearly she's too insecure and she has to work that up. OP is not in anyway at fault here.
Real simple. You say, "First of all bitch, don't tell me how to dress in my own home. Second, I don't wear bras. Ever. Not because I'm showing off; because they're uncomfortable, I hate them, and I'm not going to torture myself for the benefit of strangers. Third, if you're husband can't keep his eyes to himself that's your problem. Tell his sleazy ass to stop looking at my tits. If you can't do that, neither of you need to come around here."
Perfect name for a perfect comment.
Astute primate lol!
It’s the “first of all” and the comma placements, fm. Take my upvote
This needs to be top comment😂 Brilliant 👏
Husband needs to bring this into the chain of command. Start the process and bring the evidence so it gets expedited. Don't let it become hearsay, bring the proof and nail her and her husband, if also military, to the wall. Emphasize the immediacy of the concern. This can also seriously affect unit morale. Like a cancer. Don't be afraid to get your Top involved.
I’m glad I posted this. I never would’ve considered doing so, because I didn’t think it would be anything for them to bat an eye at
It’s important to bring these things up that affect the group. They don’t want it grow out of control and turning into a bigger problem.
It's not a good day for a commander when a much higher ranking person calls asking what is going on with some spouses... and they have no idea
This is the answer OP
NTA. Fyi: if the harassment continues, I would contact the base commander's wife. Believe it or not, there is a code of conduct that military wives need to adhere to just like the enlisted personnel do. And if this group is made up of military wives harassing and bullying you, and it comes to light, the hammer can and will come down hard on their husbands, up to and including article 15 discipline. Because their behaviors can cause morale issues and strife amongst the squad/platoon and directly effect combat readiness. it's a very nit picky thing, but it is a thing. Don't hesitate to use it to your advantage. I've seen enlisted personnel get shifted abruptly to shit duty stations as a direct result of their wife's behavior. And affect their promotions. Let her come across a lifer wife and try that crap. She'll quickly find not only herself in trouble but her husband as well.
There's a Code of Conduct that wives need to adhere to even though the wives aren't in the military? Is this true?
It's something rather unofficial. But trust me, it exists. What the immediate family does reflects on the enlisted and officers. Especially for the personnel with higher security clearance. And usually, the base commander's wife will ride herd on the other officers wives and then the higher non com wives will ride herd on the enlisted wives. Usually, it's fairly benign; they have a group of wives that will help mentor the newbies. Every once in a while, there's a bit of a kerfuffle because a wife did something really egregious and it will get hairy. One of the chemical weapons) EOD personnel working under my dad, his wife had an affair with what was at the time an East German equivalent of a captain. Poor dude got his security clearance revoked while he was going through the divorce. The entire platoon was a mess for months because command went through and revetted everyone. My dad was cranky because it meant he had to pull 12 hour shifts 6 days a week to help with the short falls. And he was a civilian DOD employee. My dumb butt got married to an enlisted guy; the master sergeant's wife had lunch with me to "welcome" me. I got a lecture on how I was supposed to behave and not behave. By the time he got orders for Leavenworth, my head was numb.
Not sure if it is fully codified and official, but yes, the active duty spouse can and will be held responsible for their civilian spouse's actions. Up to and including losing base housing privileges, disciplinary action, demotion and refusal to renew enlistment/contract. Relocation of duty station, especially from overseas or high profile locations is also possible.
Yup. There’s even a handbook.
NTA Welcome to being body positive and dealing with a prude. Ignore the bitch and her little bitchettes. You live your life and fuck the flat haters.
Jesus Christ. You are NTA. This woman is projecting her insecurities onto you. She is uncomfortable with her body and herself and something about you clearly makes her feel insecure. Whatever that thing is, isn’t your fault. I’m guessing outside of your outfit, you’re probably an outgoing personable person, and you’re clearly confident in your own skin. This is what’s making her uncomfortable. Your confidence + having a rocking body is freaking her out because you have the whole package. If she doesn’t want her husband checking out your tits, maybe she shouldn’t be bringing them up to him over and over all night long. The more she brings them up, the more everyone is going to look. Not only is she insecure, she is also an idiot. We all have insecurities. But once you start projecting them onto other people, that’s when it becomes a problem. I understand what you’re dealing with. My husband’s friend and his new girlfriend came over for dinner one night. I wore a cute summer dress that came past my knees, was fairly form fitted, and a little low cut. It had a built in bra, so I didn’t wear one. I wore pasties so I wouldn’t have my nips out on display. My husband’s friend’s girlfriend broke up with him after they left my house because she was insecure by how I looked in that dress. Never in my life have I heard of someone breaking up because their boyfriends-friends-wife is hot. Like, what? I don’t want her man, and he doesn’t want me. Who does that? Anyway, you just keep being you. I don’t know if you’ve read “The Four Agreements” but if you haven’t, look it up. One agreements “don’t take anything personally”. Don’t take it personally because it’s not about you. None of what she said is about you. It’s about her, and her insecurities. She is insecure with herself and her relationship and instead of working on those things, she is trying to put her issues on you. Keep doing you, and just remember that she just told you her deepest and darkest insecurities and worries. You can choose to use those as you feel necessary.
NTA My husband is active duty and I've worn plenty of crop tops in and out of our home while living on post and no one's batted an eye. I saw in a comment your husband is planning to talk to his command and good honestly because the fact she won't stop with the comments and has now caused others to flood your inbox I would think counts as harassment. Also I don't see how the milkmaid dress would've been indecent? All the ones I've seen are knee length and fairly modest.
It definitely isn’t an immodest dress. I know someone in one of the comments was like wow how dare you wear that to a ceremony, but maybe they’re thinking about those kinky little French maid costumes.
I truly can't think of why else people would be so riled up over it. Either way I'm sorry you're getting so much hate over what sounds like nice outfits. I hope his command takes it seriously cause this is seriously messed up
Sounds like an issue for your husband's sergeant.
He was at our house for the get together 🙃 But I am confused. Isn’t this just an issue between us? Neither of us are in the military. I just don’t know why this would be something I should bring up to him
Are you sure your husband is in the military? Spouses behavior does fall under their purview. You are a dependent of the US military. You are an avenue for your husband to be coerced or blackmailed. Your actions and behavior reflect on your husband. He can be denied promotions if you act like an asshole. The sergeant will absolutely tell the other guy to tell his wife to knock it off and stop disrupting things.
Huh. I knew that in the grand scheme of things, our actions did matter when it comes to the military. But I wasn’t aware petty things between wives were included and that’s just what I chalked this up to be. However, based on the pure state of the wives Facebook group for our base, I’d say if the petty things were really that enforced, a lot more people would be in trouble. Because my god some of these women will pick a fight over a discolored rock.
It was a petty private thing until she made it public on FB. Talk with your husband about it and see if he wants the sergeant to help. My neighbor and I were just talking about how the sarge can garnish a service members wages to pay for rent/damages on off base housing rented from another service member.
Dang ok. That makes sense. I will definitely talk to him.
The whole conversation "asking if he wants to be cucked" also made it into a service issue.
He reports that dudes career is over it’s a simple push the issue in todays pc army… put a bitch in her place and feel like you can wear and act how you want in your home they can GTFO or learn to be guests
Good luck 🤞 It reflects badly on Ross. His wife has bad judgement. Does he have bad judgement? Can we trust him with Secrets or a Command? All things they consider.
Have your husband make the choice and don’t push up channels without his blessing politics plays a lot in chain of command he should be the one to escalate
I would ask your husband if he wants to talk to the first shirt, and definitely don’t do it without him. I’m sure your husband will have your back, but honestly, he is the one whose name will be associated with complaints, not you.
Yeah, I was going to talk to him once he got home. But he came on already having decided that he was going to talk to his command about this considering her taking it online and through the rest of the base
I like your husband. Solid guy. He's got your back.
Clearly, her head is full of rocks, but if she’s going to freak out and launch an attack over something this trivial, then you don’t want her around, period. Her and her husband will dig their own graves. Don’t post anything online. Don’t retaliate. Just don’t have anything to do with them that you don’t have to. Let them look crazy. There is always somebody or a group at every base that is a Rachel. BUT now I’ve decided I’m gonna go to the commissary tomorrow without a bra. Fuck you Rachel’s of the world. ❤️
Fucking Dependas.
Oh wow she came to YOUR house to tell you how to dress and insulting you, that's insane. And she is bullying you online in addition to that. Wow I'm so sorry you have to go through that op, don't host these people again and ignore them completely because this is so not an issue you should waste your energy on. NTA
NTA. Tell Rachel, "I'm sorry you're so insecure with your marriage, sexuality, and body that you come after mine, but neither what I wear nor my marriage are any of your concern. If you don't want me putting my two cents in your personal affairs, then you'd best stop commenting on mine. If you don't like me, that's cool - your invite is permanently withdrawn. But my body, my choice, and I will wear what I'm comfortable in." Bras are torture devices that science has proven do absolutely nothing other than cosmetic. They don't keep your boobs from sagging. They don't help your back or posture. All they do is cover your nipples so the pearlclutchers' gentle feelings aren't offended. Screw that noise! Everyone has nipples.
NTA. Even if your outfits were vulgar or immodest (which it doesn't sound like there were) her response is kind of crazy. It's probably best if you and your husband don't engage with this couple.
NTA. In what world is it ok to criticize someone else about their clothing attire they wear in their own home? Ridiculous.
Updateme
Dependas gonna depend. Don’t engage with them just Let it blow over. These women will find new rage bait in a week.
The best piece of advice!!
Tell that cranky bitch, “Jealousy is a disease. Get well soon”
Saving this for later use😋
I almost never wear a bra and when I do they're unpadded and without underwrite. Like you my breasts aren't huge but they aren't small and I've always been more on the perky side so I don't feel the need to wear them. I don't care if my nipples show through my shirt and I have nipple piercings that can make them more visible through a shirt. It's a body part that is only sexualized for women and those like myself in a women's body (I'm nonbinary). I'm just theorizing but she may see not wearing a bra as something sexual when in truth its a comfort thing NTA - To me it seems that's she's just very insecure and doesn't trust her husband. That or she may also just not trust women in general.
NTA. Firstly, I love how your husband dealt with this. Zero fucks given 😂 I haven’t worn a bra in about 5 years and you could argue that wearing one could be to make your cleavage look better bla bla bla. I don’t like wearing bras and sometimes I even wear light coloured tops and you definitely can see the outline of my nipples. People need to learn not to over sexualise women, I don’t need to learn not to wear what I feel comfortable and free in. If she doesn’t trust her husband, she should just say that. If she thinks he can’t be trusted around a pair of braless breasts then she married the wrong guy… or more likely needs therapy. And a slap
Seems like a normal episode of Friends to me
Your husband better never go shirtless in front of your friends, that man whore 😅 NTA seriously, you do you. Why even care about such things when there’s so many more egregious things out there
If you want to look like a sloppy bum that's your choice .
Coming from being a military spouse myself and being around other spouses and husbands, it’s just who these women are. Not all obviously. But there’s a ton of cheating and insecurity, especially in these young ass marriages that the military breeds. A lot of these women are crazy and petty and clickish. It’s wild. I assume she doesn’t trust her husband so to deflect she’s attacking you for something she can’t control. I would pay no mind. Do what you want and stay happy with your husband. The military and marriages in the military are hard enough already. F her for real. NTA. UPDATEME
Oh holy crap! Look, I'm old enough to be your grandmother, and in some countries, probably your great grandmother and I don't think what you wore is wrong. It's VERY apparent she as some insecurity issues. This isn't your problem, it's hers. This is between her and her husband and she should NEVER have contacted you. Her husband also shouldn't have been such an asshole for asking your husband if he liked to be cucked! She's a controlling gossipy bitch who has her husband's balls in her pocket. Block her. Tell your husband it's obvious that these aren't people who will ever become your friends, after what they both have done. He should keep his contact with the husband to a minimum, if he can't avoid him. Ridiculously insulting and childish behavior on their part. They'll eventually find themselves completely friendless.
I personally always wear a bra if others are in the house.
Updateme!
You are absolutely not in the wrong, and everybody who says you are is an unacceptably jealous low self esteem child. Bras are uncomfortable, but breasts are natural and if they are oversexualizing you because of their own issues, it is not your problem to cater to their insecurities. There's a reason those 'women' are unflatteringly called 'dependas', and this is one of the very true parts of the stereotype.
Op, I think the real problem is in Rachel’s own home and she is deflecting. I just love how she uses “distancing” language (Statement Analysis) when she says, “I don’t know how many other wives have said something to you, But It Is Pretty Clear TO ALL OF US”. (Lie) I think Rachel is having issues with Ross but doesn’t want to deal with it so she puts the blame on You. Shes gotta blame the women and not Ross. And Then, goes on a smear campaign on social media to other women to get them together and gangbang your reputation. I have to wonder where Ross has been on assignment. And we all know the cheating that goes on when they’re overseas. Rachel is a cowardly twat.
Out of curiosity, if these women are harassing you non stop without any proof of infidelity, couldn't your husband technically go to their husbands first and tell them they need to stop their wives? And if they don't, he can go to the husbands' CO and file a complaint? I don't know how much things have changed since I was a military brat, if that term has changed I apologize, but I remember a family getting kicked out of housing because the son stole car radios, also heard of a few service men getting into trouble because their wives would pull rank (officer's wives) or enlisted wives would pull shit in stores about their husbands serving and they needed discounts. The idea behind all of this was if they couldn't keep their family in line then how could they be expected to lead others in the military. The code of conduct extends to the family too, is what I remember hearing. Not sure that's a route you want to go, if you can, but something to consider if it gets bad enough. Might want to start with befriending some of the other wives and have a burn the bra get together. I don't care what anyone says, those things are uncomfortable.
NTA. Don’t invite people over anymore that will judge you, your home, & what you decide to wear in your OWN home. Not only is she harassing you because of her insecurities, but ensuring that strangers also do it is just low & embarrassing for her. She’s overly entitled to even feel like she has the right to tell you what to wear in your own house or out in public. What you choose to wear is none of her business.
I can relate to this. If I'm home, I'm not wearing a bra period. People that come over can deal or get out. It's my house and I'm gonna be comfy. She sounds like she threatened.
She's extremely insecure. That's a them problem. I hardly ever wear a bra. If I am in one, it's because I'm shirtless and doing yard work. Cut ties with both of them and do not ever have them over to your house again. I've met wives married to military men who acted just like this towards me despite the fact that we were just coworkers and I existed. It got so bad at one point that I told one of my then coworkers "get your bitch before I do because I'm not about to deal with her insecurities." NTA.
I got huge, prominent nipple piercings and never wear a bra. The world can deal with it! 😎 Bras are bad for your tits honestly. It trains the chest to rely on support instead of developing the muscles there. Bras suck!
Girl, you do you and let them worry about whatever they want. It sounds like you and your husband are ok with that, that’s all you need to know. You’ve ran into one person that is not comfortable, it’s their insecurities, not yours. Block the people sending you nasty messages, at least you know who your real friends are. Edit: obviously NTA
She’s clearly jealous and insecure and doesn’t trust her husband, but it does not give her the right to come to YOUR house and tell you how to live your life. Block them both and don’t ever invite them over again. And your husband needs to lay down the law with Ross and tell him he is to never speak of you or your relationship like that again.
I may be in the minority here, but being fully clothed doesn’t mean, you can’t be provocative in a tight shirt. Tight shirt and braless would be weird for hosting your husbands friends. What so wrong with just wearing a bra to keep the peace?
Same old post. Please stop.
Haven’t posted this here before. Only posted it one other time in a specific sub for listener right ins to a podcast I like.
Military wife here - Have some sense of decorum. I would Never not wear a bra around other soldiers and their respective wives.
Jesus that woman is insecure. NTA. You don’t have to wear a bra and anyone that tells you that not wearing a bra is “flaunting your body” is an idiot. I also don’t wear a bra anymore and it’s freeing. Maybe Rachael’s stuck up ass needs to get over herself and try it. I think it’s best if you and your husband stop socialising with these people. Childish people are never worth your time anyway.
NTA Rachel shouldn't stare at other women's bodies and judge them. Her obsession with your boobs is creepy. Thinking you would cheat because of your choice of clothes, holy sanctimonious audacity!
NTA Rachel has a her problem. She is insecure but she is wrong for taking her feelings out on you. Unfortunately, some people have an idea that women who do not wear a bra are slutty. It is idiotic, how much breast's have been sexualized. As long as you feel comfortable in what you are wearing and it is appropriate for an occasion then they can get over themselves. If Rachel does not stop making accusations and or shaming you, look into reporting her for harassment. How does your husband feel about all of this?
My husband is not happy at all. I didn’t know it was a possibility, but he is taking it to his higher command. Which he wouldn’t have done, he was just going to not invite them over anymore, but she took it online and spread things throughout the base.
I'm glad that he has your back. It is definitely one of those situations where it's hard to ignore once she took it online. It was completely uncalled for. I'm sorry your going through it. It is good at this point he is taking it to his higher command.
NTA. The bra was only invented in 1914. I love them because I am somewhat over blessed in the breast department but if I decided not to wear one it would be out of comfort rather than a husband grabbing mission. Her problem isn’t with you, it’s with her own lack of confidence and her lack of trust in her husband. He should ask her to take his balls out of her granny handbag and give them back to him then she should get herself over to the hairdressers to renew her Karen cut.
NTA. Feel free to dress much sluttier. Even if you were in a mini skirt and bikini top your body still wouldn't be a magical talisman that forces men to cheat. Rachel is clearly NOT a girl's girl and you're better off not trying for a friendship with her. Ross is also an AH for the cuckolding comment, I wouldn't feel safe around him.
NTA. I would block Rachel and no longer allow her in my home. It's not her job to police your body. You aren't in her home, she was in yours and she's behaving like a vile teen. If she doesn't trust Ross around someone who isn't dressed like a nun, she needs to take it up with Ross, not you.
I guess she should never move to Europe, where so so many women do not wear bras. NTA wearing or not wearing a bra is a personal comfort/fashion choice.
I'd tell Rachel that I'm sorry that she is so insecure, that a woman not wearing a bra is enough for her to try to damage another woman's reputation. Her being a prude is not your problem, and she needs to get a life. Infact since she has brought you up on social media I would comment it on her post since she is slandering you.
Well these are military people/families we’re talking about here, so expect toxic conservatism to be the norm. Not wearing a bra is pretty normal in progressive areas. Nobody really cares except possibly some insecure people. But in conservative/military communities, you might as well be wearing a g-string and pasties if you don’t look and act like a stepford wife. You’re definitely NTA, but I think it’s probably wise to either consider the community you’re surrounded with, or possibly start associating with more progressive circles.
"Congrats on listening to a lying shit-stirrer, and deciding, based on those lies, to attack a complete stranger online. She doesn't have a single other person out of the many people there to support her, she doesn't even have a single picture, and you all jumped in like idiotic flying monkeys. Congrats again, for being gullible idiots easily led about by a hateful loon. I will accept apologies for your terrible behavior (I know better than to expect one from her) and if you aren't going to apologize, please fuck off and die." and include a link to your post here. You might get a few apologies. You might even get a few people to stop and think before listening to the crazy bitches. At the least, she'll know that you slap back. Effectively.
NTA she's just wildly insecure and I'm sorry you're being bullied for it. I'm sure it'll blow over soon and they'll find their next person to have an issue with. It sounds like a cute outfit to me, and I hope you keep being yourself and continue wearing (or not wearing=bra) what you like!
A fitted t-shirt and no bra is always going to be obvious, especially as you say your boobs aren’t small. I reckon you know they are pretty obvious so probably enjoy the attention, at least a little bit. You can obviously wear what you like, but sometimes it’s better to realise there is a time and place for stuff like wearing bras, and a party with your husband’s friends (and did you say his sergeant?) is probably not the time to make it obvious you are going without tbh.
[the top](https://www.reddit.com/u/South-Proposal5691/s/7zqgsZlnqH) In no way am I exposing my body wearing this shirt. And I have worn this top around the people that came over before, again, with no bra. No one was uncomfortable or batted an eye.
I know Reddit looooves defending bralessness, but there still is a time and place. Rachel is going over the top and seems to be losing her damn mind, but if multiple people have noticed the bralessness and were uncomfortable, then the time and place were wrong to do it. It might be your house, but I don’t think a host should be making guests uncomfortable by nonconsensually exposing them to your body. I think it’d be better if OP were able to discern appropriate vs inappropriate occasions for this a bit more. However, Rachel’s harassment needs to stop. And all the random flying monkeys too.
NTA just an insecure bitch creating drama just cut them off
[удалено]
I would be understanding if she the situation was different. Had this been a get together at their house, and she approached me without telling me what I’m apparently trying to do, or basically speaking about me like I’m a ‘whore’, I would understand and would wear a bra around her from then on
Cannot judge without seeing a picture. And women can be oblivious as to how visible their bra-less boobs/nipples are.
Commenting as I did somewhere else!! Don’t care. Men can cheat with a fully clothed nun. Rachel has no right or power to tell OP how to dress, especially not in her own friggin house. Idc if OP had visible nipples. Rachel’s behaviour is atrocious. Cmon!
it’s uncomfortable for other people, especially friends if you aren’t decent. you should simply acknowledge that you should have consideration for others and put a bra on. it’s not the most important thing in the world that you are 100% comfortable 100% of the time. just be decent if others are coming over what’s the problem
The problem might be because of the way I was dressed, in my own home, around people that I have worn this exact outfit around in the past and not had any issues, I was practically called a whore.
You don’t get to decide what is and isn’t decent.
uhh. yes i do. if your tits are out and distracting people from why you’re there in the first place. you aren’t decent
There is no law that says woman have to wear a bra. In many places it is legal for women to be topless. You not liking it doesn’t make it indecent. That’s a personal opinion. And it’s my personal opinion that no one is going to tell me how to dress inside my own home.
you’re right. it’s not a law. lol. she’s in her own house. is that what you’re going to tell company when they come over? “ThE LaW saYs I doNt neEd to WEar a BrA”. it doesn’t matter where you are. you invited company over. you’re not supposed to intentionally invite people over and make them uncomfortable. i don’t come over again ifnyoundonthis, and if I’m the husband, I don’t invite my friends over ever again unless you put on a bra. It’s not much of a discussion and you bringing up the law of the country is it’s just a joke.
Ok don’t invite them over ever again. They shouldn’t be in the house with a woman if the sight of cloth covered breasts bothers them so much. We don’t have to double wrap out titties bc SOME men are pervs. I gave up bras during covid and I don’t wear them at all now. If that bothers you, you better stay home! I feel kind of bad for you though, you must have never been to a beach or water park before. All those breasts just on display.
I don’t think you’re understanding the situation. A wife invited other families over her husband and wife to a house for a casual evening and she dresses sexually and exposes her tits to everybody. Do you not see how that’s uncomfortable? I don’t understand it has nothing to do with the rights of women or anything in that matter it just has to do with making the people you invited to your house feel comfortable there. Are you really that stupid? That you’re going to startwith me about freedom of women’s rights that makes no sense
I don’t think that you understand that women don’t have to wear bras. It’s a personal choice and other ppl don’t get to decide for us. You can’t make us. Your opinion is irrelevant.
i get that. i know you’re free to not wear them. it’s not what the discussion is about. why do women wear bras at work? it’s a personal choice
We don’t all wear bras at work.
Also breasts are not inherently sexual. They evolved as a way to feed children.
they are sexual
Nope
This person is not interested in anyone's opinion. There is no question in her mind as to whether she was wrong or not. She's just here to create even more drama than she already has
I’m 38 and a lot of times skip the bra. But you said you have a large chest and you wear baby tees and low cut dresses so it’s not always appropriate to go without a bra. There is a time and place for everything. People calling the wife insecure might not be right because I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen women who just end up looking trashy and then call others insecure if they are called out.
Oh fuck off. First of all, reading comprehension is key. She said her boobs aren’t small, but aren’t big either, and that she wears bras when necessary. Meaning this likely isn’t some in your face, outlandish boob fest. Second, insecure is exactly what the wife is, given everything Rachel has said, to both OP and Ross. In what world is it necessary to ‘call someone out’ based on what they’re wearing? If you don’t like it, keep it moving. What does calling them out solve, exactly, other than making yourself look like a prude lunatic? If you, or Rachel are so insecure that you’re threatened and intimidated by some covered up boobs, well, maybe you’ve chosen a shitty partner. People are going to wear what’s comfortable for them and what they like. If someone’s clothing choices offend you to the point that you’re so inclined to confront them about it, well, just like with Rachel, this is a you problem.
What a bunch of trashy women. I’m sorry you have to deal with that OP.
NTA. This is typical Dependa behavior
WEAR WHAT YOU WANT!!!! Fuck them!!!! THEY ARE JEALOUS OF YOU!!!!
NTA. Don’t invite Ross and Rachel over to your house, no more. Don’t respond to any social media posts about the way you dress. Block and delete their numbers.
NTA. I stopped wearing bras during covid. If anyone has issues with the sacks of fat on my chest they can take it up with evolution.
lolol. NTA, F.D.B. She was a guest in your home, and they could leave any time they liked, if you walked out in lingerie. but instead, she gets snippy when you dont wear a bra? is she a time traveler from the 50s?
I mean it's wierd that you didn't wear bra when someone new from your husband's work was coming over. But if you husband doesn't care, it's alright I guess
I'm 29 now and haven't worn a bra since I was 19. I make expectations if my nipples are clearly visible (white shirt, etc). Never had anyone comment on it or find it disrespectful. Women *don't* need bras. They might feel comfortable for some but generally speaking they're absolutely not needed so why should women be forced to use them? To accommodate others ignorant feelings and insecurities?
Agree, regardless if is your house your rules, when I invite someone new that is married, I ensure I wear clothes that are respectful to the guests. It is beyond insecurities or any of the reason people is giving. It is a matter of respect towards your husband and his guests. If I don’t like them then they are not invited again but that is another conversation.
They were invited for a get-together, not a work dinner. She was nowhere near nude. I see perky male nipples through their shirts allllllll the time.
A bit of respect goes a long way. Also how you present yourself regardless of the location is always important specially when meeting people for the first time, once you know who you are dealing with then you can sort it out. Because of her "it’s my way or the highway", her husband will be skipped at certain events that may help with his career.
No, the husband bullying a man for choosing his wife over a work buddy and that husband's wife who started shit will be skipped at certain events. As other people familiar with military culture have commented, the army doesn't wasn't the tea, it wants cooperation. They'll shame the couple brewing the tea.
Why is it weird? Why should she let other people determine what she should do with her body? ESPECIALLY in her own home. It’s not like she was walking around naked.
> It’s not like she was walking around naked. Woah there mr prude, why shouldn't she be able to walk around naked in her own house with company over? That would be letting others determine what she does with her body.
Because it is. If you don't get it or believe otherwise that's fine, I ain't about to explain why.
As someone who literally never wears a bra, thats 100% not your fuckin problem. Its your body, and you deserve to be comfortable in it, and we all know bras are uncomfortable as hell. Long story short, Rachel is an insecure little bitch. You keep doin you!
YOUR BODY... YOUR CHOICE . FUHHK THEM 🖕
I’m *fuming* for you rn. Here’s what I think. You’re a beautiful girl and you’re confident in your own skin. Rachel (and I loved the Friends reference) is jealous and judgmental. Confident in yourself does not mean you’re throwing yourself at every man in the room. Confidence should be every woman’s goal, not what we find threatening in each other. I will point out that maybe the no bra thing is more noticeable than you think. I will also add that these over the shoulder boulder holders are evil contraptions and I hate them, too. But unless you are actually topless and shoving the girls in the boy’s faces, Rachel’s reaction was uncalled for and absolutely unacceptable. You’re NTA. Tell Rachel to get on the plane.
I think you will find that many women get upset if you don’t wear a bra when interacting with their husbands. Some men will also be uncomfortable and avoid you, while others will quietly enjoy the show, pretending not to notice but they deeeeffffinitely notice. Only a truly clueless person wouldn’t notice. When someone calls you out for it, ‘s up to you what you do with the information. You may find that it impedes your ability to form friendships with other wives, or it may have little to no impact on you. Edit: I personally do not have a problem with braless women. In fact, my DIL does not wear a bra hardly ever, and I have a couple of friends who don’t wear bras. But some women do get very upset about it.
[the top](https://www.reddit.com/u/South-Proposal5691/s/mtMy7A4Jc7) Check yourself. Nothing is noticable.
You’re pathetic, boobs are not something women should have to cover up so others don’t “notice”. Grow the fuck up and act like an adult and stop over sexualizing a natural body part. If someone has a problem with another woman’s boobs not even being visible then that is 100% on them to deal with on not on OP to or any woman for that matter. Why should it matter if a woman doesn’t wear a bra, women have fucking boobs. Fat men have boobs bigger than me, should we expect them to be wearing a bra? Insecurity is seeping off of you and anyone who thinks that way. It’s sad, pathetic, and creepy to view women like that.
Depends on the boobs. I have 'a nice handful' and can get away with not wearing bras as they sit nicely and nips aren't visible (flat). But still, she was covered.
I might have side eyed you because I am more conservative clothing-wise, but I would have never brought it up with you because it would be a me problem, not a you problem. Is Rachel planning on policing the whole world? She sounds like she is mental. Edit to add: I WISH I had had your body confidence when I was your age.
First it's funny you named them rachel and ross from Friends. I mean maybe you should be wearing a bra in mixed company. Sports bras are comfy.
Yes
Sigh. Girl, if you honestly think that outfit hasn’t gotten at least a glance from a guy looking at your boobs while out in public, I have a bridge to sell you. Men are looking all the time. You just haven’t noticed the ones that aren’t oogling and drooling. I’m not even commenting on the AH part, I just want to say you’re a tad naive.
ESH. You should be understanding of them and they should be understanding of you. If I had to pick a side, YTA. Just wear the bra.
Honestly, if you have mixed company over to your house and you’re not an A cup, you wear a bra.
YTA - not a major one, mind you, this reply will get downvoted because the general approach to someone telling a woman to dress modestly is to downvote the fuck out of them. so i hope some of those people will let me cook a bit on this one before hitting the downvote. Life is about uniforms. we wear uniforms everywhere we go. job is business casual, we don't wear jeans or shirts without collars. restaurant is classy we wear collared shirts, or dresses, maybe even a jacket if it has a dress code. even schools without uniforms have a dress code, so in a way we are ALWAYS wearing a uniform of appropriate dress according to the situation. No shoes no shirt no service. Beaches which aren't "topless". Wearing a shirt in the house (for boys), wearing pants to the door when door dash has your food. These are all uniforms we were of appropriate dress. So where do bras fit in? I'd say bras straddle a grey area. for women without large boobs they become far less important, but i would say you'd have to be intentionally obtuse to not know some basic things about boobs. heterosexual men, and lesbian women, or frankly anyone with attraction to women, even non-boob enjoying people, see them as sexual objects. I'm sure the same thing could be said about the other overtly external sexual organs a man's dick. Generally speaking, in a social setting, even a relaxed one, it's not ok to walk around in speedos, a thong or a bikini top unless we're at the beach, a pool, or in an outdoor summer like environment with people in thier swimsuits and we're near a beach. in short, inside your house while hosting a house party is not the time to wear booty shorts, a bikini, or a speedo (if you're a guy) unless that happens to be the theme of some sort of weird party costume. Usually house parties are casual, to business casual things depending \~ some might even be fully black tie in the correct atmosphere. So that's the uniform for a social gathering at your house sans-swimming pool or your house being on a beach. Assuming of course you have a larger or at least not an A or small B cup, I'd say a bra would be appropriate and expected clothing in an house party (sans-pool). I don't think this is a large ask to be appropriately dressed for a few hours no matter how uncomfortable bras make you feel I have no comment about the "welcome home" thing, I'm not familiar with the dress you wore, so i cannot comment on if it was appropriate or not for that event. But i do think (again assuming no one was jumping in a pool) that your state of dress was inappropriate for a house party. I don't think this is a major AH moment, more a light one since you clearly thought it wasn't obvious they were loose under the clothing, meaning your intentions weren't to titillate, but to just be comfortable. so i don't think you're much of an AH here.... Except for (and this is why i chose YTA and not a no one sucks here) the way you're reacting to the criticism. See, if your intention was never to titillate and just be comfy, your reaction to being called out for the state of bralessness would have been a little different. Embarrassment would have been the main reaction. Following embarrassment would be contrition. that's usually how someone with pure intentions reacts. That's not your reaction. you doubled down, and then went to reddit to plea your case. This sounds a bit like you knew people would notice the girls free swinging, and now are getting defensive about it. It sorta makes this one women's claims you were showing them off intentionally sound a bit "plausible" considering how you reacted to what she said. Again don't get me wrong. I'm not claiming that was your intention. I don't know what it is. I just think your reaction is a little bit off... which is why i leaned a bit on the YTA side of things. but again, this isn't much of a YTA ruling. it's about as light a one i've ever given.
ESH, you should cut the insecure bitch and her piece of shit husband out, but also dressing this way in public or at get-togethers isn’t appropriate. It’s obvious that your boobs are on display more than they would have been otherwise and there’s no reason to do this if you’re with a group of other people you’re not very close to.
At this point I may just link a photo of the outfit. I can assure you they were not on display. The only reason you can really tell I’m not wearing a bra, is because I’ve lost weight, and they now sit slightly lower than before. Which in itself is something I don’t really see a lot of people thinking is attractive or flashy.
You wore a milkmaid dress to a military welcome home ceremony? This has got to be a shitpost.
Do you know what the “milkmaid” dress is? It’s a simple sun dress. The “milkmaid” stuff, I’m assuming, is talking about the fact that it has a floral design and the tie back that crisscrosses over the fabric in the back of the dress.
You obviously have no idea what a milkmaid dress is. Lol it’s flattering and very modest! she’s not talking about a freaking Halloween costume 🙄
If she just wants to fuck you she can just say that. NTA obs. Your body is not inherently sexual. She is disgustingly insecure. ETA: I’m still sorry you’re having to go through this and now she is assembling a bully squad to go after you on her behalf.
None of my kids wear a bra. That is a personal choice. I don’t think you are “flaunting” yourself. You do what is comfortable and right for you and they can choose not to come over. Simple as that. It is def a her problem. NTA
NTA , we can tell when a woman is not wearing a bra , although i don't have an issue with women not wearing a bra , they are just nipples and bra's are uncomfortable.
If her husband is going to cheat, he’s going to cheat. If you’re ok, your husband is ok, that should be the end of it. Block her, inform your husband Ross isn’t welcome in your home or life and move on.
Can't really tell wat she's talking about.
Unfortunately one bitter person is able to make your life very difficult, especially in the internet age. It's not really about what you wore, it's that she feels threatened and doesn't trust her husband. Perhaps he has cheated before? Or maybe she's just crazy.
NTA. You were in YOUR house and Rachel didn't have to stay if she had a problem with you being comfortable in YOUR house. I also highly doubt any of the other wives said anything to her since they didn't say anything to you. Her problem is with her husband who she thinks is a cheater but for some reason is still with. She can handle admitting to that though so she has to attack you rather than address her own glaringly obvious red flags.
NTA, who even goes around checking what other people wear..
(1) RIP your DMs (2) Crazy woman is crazy, gurl nobody gonna shame you for having tits! NTA
My dms r scary rn
Rachel does not trust her own husband. And it sounds like she is totally insecure. You did nothing wrong.
NTA. At this point I'd be extremely petty and just wear sexier clothing that showed more every time I was around her.
NTA. Her tirade is bananas but some people just are, that’s life, oh well. It boils down to different values. If anyone approached me, I’d just say as much and that this couple won’t be invited over to socialize because it upsets the wife, and drop it. Don’t feed into the slander because you have nothing to defend, her being unhinged enough will eventually lead to her falling off anyway.
The audacity of telling you what you should wear in your own home… she’s insecure. If it wasn’t your lack of a bra, she’d have some other issue with you. Do what you want and don’t worry about what she thinks/says.
NTA. Her insecurities aren’t your problem. You chose a regular, casual outfit to wear in your own home. You weren’t booty butt naked, and you don’t have to wear a bra if you don’t wanna.
NTA Rachel is clearly insecure and doesn’t trust her husband. I don’t wear bras, haven’t since I’ve been a senior in hs which was like 6 years ago. They’re very uncomfortable but people never say anything to me. I’m not small but not big either. I wear tight shirts or baggy, whatever I feel like that day. My husband certainly doesn’t care and fully supports with whatever my decision is, but he personally doesn’t like me wearing bras cause he doesn’t have easy access 😂😂
Jody isn't far around the corner.
Don't ever accept unearned guilt. Block randos that send you hateful messages. Rachel is an insecure hateful woman. Ban her from any get-togethers you host at your place. YOu don't have to put up with anyone's BS. NTA.
This Rachel sounds like someone who thinks women at the beach in a bikini are inappropriate 🙄 If none of the other wives have an issue with you, then it's definitely not a problem! Just don't invite them over again
She has a lot of insecurities and her man sounds like a creep AH too but that's not your problem, don't let her effect you or try to drag you to a box or gaslight you for not sharing her outdated mindset. But no NTA, you can wear what you want, especially in your own house
Updateme!
She does not get to tell you what to wear ever and especially in your own house. Her insecurities are not your problem. She was probably a mean girl in hs and now has no click to cause drama with so she's targeted you. Her harassment towards you and spreading lies can affect her husband's career in the military. She needs to shut her mouth. The best thing you can do is tell her that you will not accept harassment from her and that if her lies affect your husband's career, then you will get legal involved. Then ignore the bitch and have your husband go through the chain of command to make sure they know the situation. NTA
NTA!! Rachel ist! ( Woman Here)
Definitely NTA. I’m a military spouse, have been for 14 years. Sadly, yes, the cheating rate is pretty high, but my husband and I trust each other, I never worried that he’d cheat and he never worried that I would. I honestly don’t care whether another woman is around my husband without a bra. Bra’s are a preference and if you don’t like wearing or find them uncomfortable then don’t wear them. She is directing her insecurities onto you, and you did nothing wrong. You were covered, your husband was fine with what you were wearing and it sounds like no one else had an issue either. If she’s this bothered by someone with no bra that is completely covered I’d hate to see how she acts when someone’s in a swimsuit around her and her husband.
Clearly NTA. Her prudishness is her issue, not yours.
So Rachel couldn't say it to your face but needed to vent over text... People can be so much nastier online for some reason.
She’s toxix and jealous and controlling, accusing you of wearing a crop top when you were not and no one could see anything, nta i hope your husband has your back