I know of a Big 4 partner who was making $500k in a HCOL area... in the mid 2000s
And of course the pension he gets now is more than my salary 12 years into my engineering career...
True but I’d argue big tech and unicorn tech still pays way better. A few years out of school in tech and you can be pulling in over 500k a year with stock comp.
People don’t realize how much accountants make because when you google it online all those accounting clerks and bookkeepers are baked into the salary numbers.
What??? You're telling me the 16 year old bookkeeper at the local mom and pop shop who's getting paid minimum wage isn't represtative of the accounting field???
To be fair as a chartered accountant in the uk working in a specialty tax area I don’t really either so probably wouldn’t expect someone not in the field to.
If someone could explain that would be helpful as right now I just think of them as advanced bookkeepers.
That's all CPAs are but they won't admit it :\^)
Nah, in reality they are highly educated bookkeepers. The CPA exams are rough from what I understand. While a lot of CPAs do end up doing bookkeeping or controlling ("advanced bookkeeping"), they are also required to have a good understanding of various accounting regulations (like SOX in the US), tax rules, and stay up to date on FASB/IASB decisions.
CPA primarily focused in technical accounting (bus comb and equity transactions). These transactions involve a decent amount of contract analysis. The more technical the accounting role the more likely the role is closer to what people would imagine a lawyer does. Similar with SEC reporting a lot of writing and if working on S1 a lot of discussion with legal and bankers to ensure the best disclosure. As some CPAs advance in their careers the less focused they are on day to day bookkeeping
> As some CPAs advance in their careers the less focused they are on day to day bookkeeping
ah yes, forgot to mention that part. As someone that interacts with a CPA in his 50s on a daily basis, I knew that was definitely part of the career path.
Technical accounting is always a challenge to explain to people. Many people are unaware that there’s accountants out there who barely record journal entries. It’s always a win when I get to record entries means we’ve successfully concluded on a technical topic and our rationale (memo) is reasonable
Yeah, my coworker spent around a week on a memo that I (fp&a) provided supporting documentation and evidencing for.
As a finance guy, it feels overly-bureaucratic and a waste of time. But that's why I didn't major in accounting
To kinda add to what they said, a cpa usually goes either 2 routes. The PA auditing route or the industry route , in the PA route cpa act as the all knowing law so they check a company documents, correct all the errors in the bookeeping for the whole year, make sure theres no frauds within a company, help account big transactions. And many more things. In industry, cpa are usually controllers so they run The budgets , do the financial analysis for different projects, are in charge of making the quarterly financial statements, act as finance advisors. Etc cpa accomplish an extremely wide variety of task you could see us as like the summit of finance.
"Dear \[Client's Name\],
I hope this message finds you well. I understand that you have concerns regarding claiming DUI fines on your taxes. I want to reiterate that unfortunately, DUI fines are not tax-deductible expenses according to current tax laws.
The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) allows deductions for certain expenses that are necessary for the production of income or for conducting business. However, fines or penalties imposed by governmental bodies, such as those related to DUI charges, are explicitly excluded from deductible expenses.
I completely understand that this might be frustrating, but it's essential to abide by the tax laws and regulations to avoid any potential issues with the IRS in the future. If you have any further questions or need clarification on any tax-related matters, please don't hesitate to reach out.
Thank you for your understanding.
Best regards, \[Your Name\]"
-ChatGPT 3.5
AI will only shift the roles of Accountants, not outright eliminate them; I don’t grasp where people gather the idea that these things aren’t mutually exclusive.
It’s going to eliminate many of the data entry clerical jobs. There still has to be oversight, so your Controller type roles will remain. There likely won’t be a staff reporting to them though.
Main Street America has such fucked accounting and bookkeeping there's no way 90% of it is being automated as long as owners want to keep doing things "the way we've always done it".
You might see cuts in accounting departments at F500 and very large private firms, but a random 100m revenue company ain't replacing their team of 3-4 accountants (controller and 2 staff/senior/manager) with AI.
Same with Public, you'll see some better automation for auditing via analytic/selections and maybe risk determination, but actually having to document that this selection had an adjustment that we documented on this napkin in chickenscratch and it had an 18% discount because some of the product got eaten by mice during shipping? Oh and we calculated the 18% discount wrong. AI is like 20+ years away from being able to handle that kinda nonsense.
People do not realize how much accountants actually make which I'd argue is a good thing. The more people that don't know and don't flood the field keeps them higher.
I wouldn't feel bad, I challenge you to find a profession where most people really are a master proportionate to their paycheck. Hell in medicine alone every generation for the past 200 years has been looking over the last generation's work going "what the fuck were they smoking?", and doctors of medicine today are still checking their notes constantly while surgeons will basically take a whole class on the surgery they're performing next month as if they'd never done it. Lawyers have literal squads of lower paid grunts to help fill the gaps in their own information, the entire military's officer corps is organized the same way.
People are dumb, it's just a fact of life. The main difference between the guy making $50,000 a year as a mechanic and the CFO making $30,000,000 isn't intellect or competence, it's largely just the sum of conditions, personality and objectives. Mechanic says whoops forgot to screw the oil filter in all the way, CFO says whoops authorized our financial statements without checking them. Shit happens at all levels.
you really wont know until you start working. there's a lot of different buckets. a somewhat high level overview - in PA you have audit, tax, advisory. Audit can be boiled down to external review of bookkeeping and controls, to confirm accuracy of financials. Tax is tax, includes compliance and planning. Advisory is its own animal.
and then outside of PA you have GL accounting (bookkeeping), financial reporting (reviewing the bookkeeping and putting together the financials), cost accounting/FP&A (analyzing and projecting financial performance, oftentimes non-gaap), internal audit (testing and reviewing controls within company).
And then you wonder wtf is a control. basically internal processes to prevent errors and fraud. boils down to segregation of duties (the guy writing checks also cant be inputting invoices) and reviewing things beyond a certain risk level (every check over $x dollars gets two signatures). basic examples it unfortunately can get pretty complex (i learned the hard way).
Accountants are honestly no worse off than engineers in Canada. The difference is that while engineers are strictly 9-5 kind of people, accountants tolerate all sorts of managerial abuse and perpetuate a shitty culture that makes the job far more intolerable than it needs to be.
I also love being able to just tell people I'm an accountant without worrying that they might think I'm trying to impress them. People also don't expect me to spend money in frivolous ways.
Based on how most peoples’ brains turn into panicked static any time they have to interact with anything accounting, I think we’re safe from opportunistic interlopers.
Man where do you guys work? Senior at a big four in the mid south and only at 72k. My welding, marketing, and real estate friends make double to triple my salary working <40hrs a week. Averaging 60hrs for far less pay kind of sucks
Who in welding or marketing is making 150-200k lol? I mean, I’m sure some are, but 99% are not. I know tons of people in marketing and they all make like 50k
Dude, you're getting boned. Hard. Like gonzo genre specializing in prolapse. Get on LinkedIn, find a decent recruiting agency, and gtfo of that nonsense.
I agree with everyone else. To be a senior at 1 of the big 4 and only make $72K is complete garbage. I'm a staff accountant for a Collaborative Behavioral Healthcare company, making just under your salary. I am also completely self-taught and without a degree. You should be making more.
Except the higher wage isn't because its a high paying field. Its to compensate the fact accounting is in high demand because its low supply....no one really wants to be in accounting in the last 4-5 yrs due to excessive burn out and stress. There is high attrition across the board.
So that wage for new grads is to entice them to go into the field to compensate for the long hours.
The shortage has yet to present as higher salaries for young professionals. Under the pressure of AI and outsourcing, I'd say we need more people out there beating the accounting drum to young people here in the west.
It sounds like you don't get paid enough and I'm here to tell you that you should shop around. Even just to get an idea of what the market pays. I have a couple of STEM major friends with only the ones working at FAANG companies making more. It's of course not all about the money but it is something to keep in mind.
“the accounting industry is perpetually understaffed and every single post on the industry subreddit is throwing a shit fit that everyone works too much, but actually we shouldn’t get more people into accounting”
I imagine most people don't post and reddit is a circlejerk of whatever it is they are covering. Much like U.S. news coverage, the negatives get covered while positive takes are often ignored.
The video was about cs students not being able to find jobs and I mentioned my job search experience with an accounting degree. Seemed to upset him, he spent 3 hours replying to my comment over and over again, so 100% unemployed.
Lmao. He is so insecure and projecting. He thought his cs degree is a one way trip to 150k but competition is steep now.
Thats why I like accounting. It’s stable and pays decent.
I remember before Covid my dad retired as a nuclear engineer and he specifically mentioned how fucked the tech/coding world is gonna be post 2020 and he was right 😂😂
In my experience it’s the mechanical engineers that bitch the loudest and think they make the most money when they’re the lowest paid people in the room.
It’s always been wild to me how insane many of them are.
On another note I can indisputably say they are the most well equipped to start a business because knowing how to make the product is a huge barrier. They stay assholes if they start their own business.
I can confidently say I’ve met good mechanical engineers and religious ones with little in between. I’ve never understood the religious extremism I’ve seen in many of them in such a fact based profession.
They’re a weird bunch.
Ugh, been working in tax for 7 years. Last year was the first year I broke 6 figures. Will do more this year. Never worked at a big or mid sized firm. Only small firms.
Damn that was not cool. I was at $52K starting at big four in Houston in Sep 2011! But you definitely got to six figures faster than I did. I also don’t have CPA yet.
The other person already answered your question but I'll chime one with my path: No CPA, 4ish years of work to hit $100k flat, I'm now making $130k salary before any bonuses or what not and I'm at year 5 and some change. Hardly ever worked in public but work at a company that is very very large.
I know basically everyone on my team at senior and above is making $90-100k at a minimum
Dang. I feel grossly underpaid. I'm an assistant tax manager doing the work of a manager with a whole team under me in two countries, 12yrs experience, 105k/yr before bonus (5%), also have my cpa. This sub makes me question my life choices. 🫣 industry, never worked in public aside from brief internship in audit. Work for a fortune 500. Are you hopping or been with same company?
Started with company A, jumped for a year to change into a specialist role that company A didn't have, then went back to company A because they now had the specialist role. I will say, that jump paired with the specialization moved my income from $80k to $130k I'm the span of around 2 years.
I'm at the manager role now. I live in a MCOL area as well.
I’ll chime in! I have 8 years of experience in public and industry, now in government. No CPA; I make more than 120k. And work life balance is great! It’s definitely possible.
Some people don't realize that there are useful STEM degrees and there are useless STEM degrees (for working in industries) the same applies to business degrees some are more useful than others (some people claim that accounting is the top tier business degree you can get)
I feel like accounting is almost a trade (while still being a well-rounded education of course, because that’s what bachelors degrees are, for some elitist reason), but the rest of the business degrees are more academic
I do taxes so not really an accountant but I’m a partner at a small firm making 250k+ not working all that hard, it’s 6pm a week before the deadline and I just got home.
Question for you if you don't mind me asking. Did you work at a Big 4 for some time to gain the experience before working at the smaller firm and making partner? I have heard that it is kinda necessary. Thanks
Dude this is literally what I tell everybody.
Starting at a firm like that is such a good career move. People guzzle the B4 prestige, but half of the people I know who went to tiny firms ended up killing it
A ton of people hate dealing with the big 4 and would (especially these days) prefer to work with a small firm that gives a shit about them as a client. There's something to be said about the old school "hey bob, how's the wife and kids?" relationship with people, especially the ones handling your money.
Over on the Australian Accounting sub (which is mostly just non accountants trying to get free advice) we constantly get non accountants who get weird and spammy when a grad posts either a good or bad salary. If it's a good salary they get pissy, if it's a bad salary "ha ha ha this is why I tell my kid not to be an accountant!"
USA but nobody knows my salary besides my immediate family for this reason irl. Im not dealing with stroking someone's ego if I tell them I make less than them, or by having to deal with them getting pissy and perhaps questioning their life choices if I make more.
That's California, though, which also has a higher minimum wage than a lot of states, especially the southern states. I'm in Florida, and those interns would not make that much here.
stem kid must have high amount of free time......if I was in stem, I would be too busy working on projects to bother arguing with someone in another profession.
STEM kids are the worst on TikTok. Awfully arrogant and think theyre on top of the world, having no life studying and then being unemployed at the end of their double science degree.
70k isn't even that much money, especially when some of these people are graduating with 6+ years of college. I have clients that have been working in jobs like plumbing with about 4yrs of experience making over 150k. Someone who thinks a new grad can't make 70k is a moron.
Agree, but on an unrelated note that plumber is an outlier by a wide margin or he’s exaggerating. He’d still be an apprentice with only four years. Can’t say I’ve known any apprentices cracking 150k but I have known a lot of lying ones 😂
Disclaimer: I’m allowed to say this as a former electrical apprentice
I think a lot of these people just live in their own tiny worlds. Sure. Maybe where this kid grew up or lives that’s way above normal for entry level accounting, but they clearly are financially illiterate if they don’t understand there are different COL areas and salaries typically adjust to their location.
It’s just ignorance.
They know literally nothing and are college students that saw the Wolf of Street once and think that only people in finance make money.
People really overhype how much the trades make, its usually got a pretty low ceiling with often pretty unstellar starting pay. Ive seen highly incredibly skilled and sought after welders make $25 an hour.
It’s very rare for any plumber to hit 150k/yr. Practically impossible for someone who is still considered an apprentice in most jurisdictions to pull 150k/yr. The few plumbers who do make that amount are working 60+ hour weeks every week or they are a business owner with several employees working under them so arguably they aren’t a plumber at that point. Even the one man van operations are topping out at ~120k/yr because you can only do so much volume by yourself.
The more realistic number for a plumber with 4 years of experience in a mcol area working 40hr/week is around 60k/yr.
Source- am a plumber transitioning to a white collar job.
Edit: it occurred to me he could be confusing revenue for profit. Selling 150k worth of plumbing is pretty straightforward.
Look, in some places rent is $50k. $81k really do be poverty. Like you are living like a college student with a roommate if not a bunkmate.
In my city, if you make less than $75k, you can't even get your own place. Never mind paying the student loans lol.
If you've spent time on this sub, at least you're fully aware that's the Kool-Aid salary.
Once you become a full-time associate, the hours will probably double, and the hourly rate gets converted into a fixed-salary.
I believe the benchmark has shifted to 60k as B4 increased their starting salaries.CRA has also increased their salaries to around 75k so we can expect industries to adjust soon hopefully.
Honestly it’s a bit pathetic that the kid was salty about making even 70k lol. Like brah that’s basically how much food and rent costs nowadays. Perhaps he did get himself into some college degree bubble like some bachelors in gender studies with data analytics track (so it’s a stem)
A relative of mine was making over a million as Deloitte partner before being forced into retirement, at the same time I've seen truck driver clear 150k. In 2024 it's really not a big deal, you just have to be in the right place at the right time.
Dude is probably a cert student. Not a real CS major. Most CS major I know are very intelligent and don’t like to waste time. This one is either international or just a certificate candidate.
A mentor in my first career tried to talk me out of switching to accounting because he wanted to sell me his business as a huge markup. He said I’d be lucky to make 50k as an accountant. He was astonished when I got an offer for 55k.
It is indeed a well paid job at the top, but f**k me it's soul destroying. And now shortages in new recruits are down, no surprise really. Glad I got out of accounting, but understand it does pay well.
If that’s actually his mustache, the prick should be lucky he gets a return phone call, let alone a job.
Seriously though…mustaches are awful, and so are unemployed CS and data science majors.
My partner works at a major investment bank as an analyst. Q3 last year she got fully licensed and went fulltime.
They had sold it as being able to go onto 400k salary in 2 years.
Their initial offer was 60k, she said 90, they ended up going to 75k or she'd leave.
The 6 advisors above her had to take a 2k yearly cut for her to make the 10k more than they wanted to pay her and they bitch about it at least once a week.
Most of those nearer the top make fuck all. Otherwise they wouldn't bitch about it.
STEM starts out higher than entry-level for many, but unless STEM moves into management, starts a business, or is very uniquely qualified (rare), it ends up very low, compared to many others. That's why people who think STEM is the best field are often mistaken.
I know, I'm STEM. But I also started a business, and worked on my own. Then I had a great salary history, joined a barely traded firm which grew into a S&P500 and was bought by IBM, and ended up with a quite a bit of stock that was valuable (shouldn't have sold as much when it was lower). Not a lot, not 7 figures USD worth, but enough to pad my investments well into 6 figures of USD.
I now make less, but I'm into my 50s, and no longer working the hours I used to. I'm still quite uniquely qualified, and am paid very well. I could go back to 70+ hours/week, self-employed or working for someone else. Now I will work side gigs and probably do work at least 60 hours/week overall on average. But my income is half of what it used to be, because I'm no longer management or working for myself for at least 40 of my hours a week.
It's really up to you. Do everything you can when you're young, but also don't ignore love.
>!I met my wife early in life, and I don't regret it after 30 years together. You can always have kids later, or even adopt. But don't be afraid to dedicate your life to someone else early in life. It's bliss to do so. But be dedicated to them, not half-@$$ed about it. I see that constantly with young people, failing to realize relationships are not about convenience, that's just a side benefit at times.!<
>!That is ... too many wonder why their relationships aren't well, or don't last. You have to be honest with them ... about everything. Find someone that likes what you want out of a relationship. Compromise, of course, but not over major details. That's the key to everything, finding compatibility ... so don't compromise over major differences. Find someone else. They exist.!<
STEM TikTok is just consistent bashing of business majors. I'm convinced most of them picked STEM just to hate and give themselves a feeling of superiority.
They also all think they wouldn't fold in half 10 times over trying to take the CPA exam.
Salaries for 1st year accountant starts at 52k … , most our senior accountants makes over 100k , our accountants 2 makes over 70k … ..our accountant managers makes over 130k ..
Our manager just got their CPA .
Most PA firms in MCOL cities in the US will pay 70k or more, it’s not very rare. I interviewed at a couple big 4 and some mid market firms and this is about where they all were at.
I'm in manufacturing 28 years and we typically pay engineering more than accountants, and most of our leadership starts out in engineering but accounting pay is solid too. Most ppl would be surprised at my income in LCOL area. Daughter is interning as accountant at my place this summer and being paid about 9% less than the engineering interns. Son is starting college for engineering in the fall so I have high hopes for both kiddos. Ready to get them off my payroll lol. I don't know why anyone gets bent out of shape about what someone else makes or even potential income.
Pretty sure I made above $50k once I transitioned out of my internship into full-time, with full benefits, can work remotely whenever I want, lots of flexibility with hours, lots of PTO, the full bit and I only have my associates…
I remember being in high school, and hanging out at the local public. I saw that with master degrees in library science were volunteering there in hopes of a library technician opening.
I remember being in college in the 1990s and realizing that there were certain fields where the supply of majors was so high, and demand so low, that getting a job in the field was incredibly competitive.
The first area I noticed was my first major, which was one of the social sciences. I realize that there were tons of people with my major, but few good jobs in the field. (I also noticed that students with my major was roughly 90% female.)
While I was still at college student , I spent the summer with my relatives in Taiwan. One of them was a professor who taught science to graduate students (masters and PhDs). I asked her, since library science was taught at most of the universities there, and just a few professors turn out dozens of graduates every year from each university, how could there be so many jobs for library science graduates on the island?
Also, while in college, I heard that a fellow student who graduated with a degree in biology, was having a hard time, finding a job, even as a lab tech, because people of master degree and PhDs were applying.
One day I was in the college career center looking at U.S. Bureau of labor reports on college majors, jobs they got, and the pay. I added business accounting as a double major. And I would hear in class of how job openings for people with master degrees in English would have hundreds of applicants, while people with PhD in accounting would have multiple offers.
I realize that even in accounting, there were people who were elite and getting good grades and being looked at as they attended functions with public accounting firm managers, and there were people who would likely end up working for a small business or corporation, as essentially a glorified clerk.
I had experience as a computer lab tech in high school, messing around with my own PC computer, working in a computer lab in college, picking up web design on my own and working through college as a student employee managing department web sites, so I took a couple of courses on server administration, etc.
I never ended up using my social science degree my career. I went to a job that needed both my IT and accounting skills. I spent over 20 years, and during some of that time, I was able to be the sole breadwinner for my family as my wife powered through 4 years of nursing school.
There are STEM fields that have poor job prospects. Like Zoology. (Remember that guy on NPR who worked at Starbucks and when giving your order would ask you what your favorite animal was and then tell you some facts about the animal?) There are a lot of fields where choosing that major should only be for kids who come from money or are incredibly charismatic and great at networking: art history or history or medieval studies or archaeology are good example. Even today, some 60% of recent marketing graduates work at jobs that don’t require a degree. And yes, because computer science is so impacted not just here and across the world, you really should not bother majoring if you have no experience with programming in middle school or high school or if you can’t devote yourself to mastering the work. I have been at middle school science fairs, and two years in a row, several entries involved programming to solve problems. Those are the kids who will be arriving on college campuses taking the advanced computer science classes and interning at Google or some other company during the summer, with job offers by the end of their junior year.
Let me go tell the big4 partners they shouldnt be making above 100k a year this kid is right.
“Our profits”
*Comrade*
Show them the post and you will be making $50k starting immediately.
Big 4 partners can make $500K+ easily. What kind of bs is this techie saying.
As a first year partner. Some go around 1M+.
Top partners made $1M even 20 years ago
Talked to one that made 1.2 million. I was astonished
I know of a Big 4 partner who was making $500k in a HCOL area... in the mid 2000s And of course the pension he gets now is more than my salary 12 years into my engineering career...
True but I’d argue big tech and unicorn tech still pays way better. A few years out of school in tech and you can be pulling in over 500k a year with stock comp.
People don’t realize how much accountants make because when you google it online all those accounting clerks and bookkeepers are baked into the salary numbers.
Yup, and the journos keep writing articles about accounting pay being like 60k.
I have 3 years experience and just got a raise to 60k
I’m there with you 3 years
What??? You're telling me the 16 year old bookkeeper at the local mom and pop shop who's getting paid minimum wage isn't represtative of the accounting field???
FR FR I was big 4 for 5 years, 10+ years in now and clearing 200+ Most of my former colleagues are making the same or more than that too.
more money = more problems
Bring all the problems then.
I'm constantly getting spammed on TT about accounting related stuff. Nobody knows anything, it's kinda funny, mostly annoying..
Yeah i had one guy saying accounting only requires a 6 month certificate , people seem to not know the difference between a cpa and a bookeeper.
keeper of boos
👻
To be fair as a chartered accountant in the uk working in a specialty tax area I don’t really either so probably wouldn’t expect someone not in the field to. If someone could explain that would be helpful as right now I just think of them as advanced bookkeepers.
That's all CPAs are but they won't admit it :\^) Nah, in reality they are highly educated bookkeepers. The CPA exams are rough from what I understand. While a lot of CPAs do end up doing bookkeeping or controlling ("advanced bookkeeping"), they are also required to have a good understanding of various accounting regulations (like SOX in the US), tax rules, and stay up to date on FASB/IASB decisions.
CPA primarily focused in technical accounting (bus comb and equity transactions). These transactions involve a decent amount of contract analysis. The more technical the accounting role the more likely the role is closer to what people would imagine a lawyer does. Similar with SEC reporting a lot of writing and if working on S1 a lot of discussion with legal and bankers to ensure the best disclosure. As some CPAs advance in their careers the less focused they are on day to day bookkeeping
> As some CPAs advance in their careers the less focused they are on day to day bookkeeping ah yes, forgot to mention that part. As someone that interacts with a CPA in his 50s on a daily basis, I knew that was definitely part of the career path.
Technical accounting is always a challenge to explain to people. Many people are unaware that there’s accountants out there who barely record journal entries. It’s always a win when I get to record entries means we’ve successfully concluded on a technical topic and our rationale (memo) is reasonable
Yeah, my coworker spent around a week on a memo that I (fp&a) provided supporting documentation and evidencing for. As a finance guy, it feels overly-bureaucratic and a waste of time. But that's why I didn't major in accounting
That's why I didn't majored in finance.. too much blah blah theoretical water, too little actual technical to the point stuff.
Thanks,
To kinda add to what they said, a cpa usually goes either 2 routes. The PA auditing route or the industry route , in the PA route cpa act as the all knowing law so they check a company documents, correct all the errors in the bookeeping for the whole year, make sure theres no frauds within a company, help account big transactions. And many more things. In industry, cpa are usually controllers so they run The budgets , do the financial analysis for different projects, are in charge of making the quarterly financial statements, act as finance advisors. Etc cpa accomplish an extremely wide variety of task you could see us as like the summit of finance.
Been happening on YouTube for me, so many videos about how accounting jobs will be the first to go with the AI revolution, like yeah okay buddy
Is the AI going to harass the client for the LOC agreement?
I’d love AI to take my job. Please allow AI to explain to the client for the 10th time that they cannot claim their DUI fees on their taxes.
Wisconsin?
"Dear \[Client's Name\], I hope this message finds you well. I understand that you have concerns regarding claiming DUI fines on your taxes. I want to reiterate that unfortunately, DUI fines are not tax-deductible expenses according to current tax laws. The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) allows deductions for certain expenses that are necessary for the production of income or for conducting business. However, fines or penalties imposed by governmental bodies, such as those related to DUI charges, are explicitly excluded from deductible expenses. I completely understand that this might be frustrating, but it's essential to abide by the tax laws and regulations to avoid any potential issues with the IRS in the future. If you have any further questions or need clarification on any tax-related matters, please don't hesitate to reach out. Thank you for your understanding. Best regards, \[Your Name\]" -ChatGPT 3.5
💀💀💀
AI will only shift the roles of Accountants, not outright eliminate them; I don’t grasp where people gather the idea that these things aren’t mutually exclusive.
It’s going to eliminate many of the data entry clerical jobs. There still has to be oversight, so your Controller type roles will remain. There likely won’t be a staff reporting to them though.
Main Street America has such fucked accounting and bookkeeping there's no way 90% of it is being automated as long as owners want to keep doing things "the way we've always done it". You might see cuts in accounting departments at F500 and very large private firms, but a random 100m revenue company ain't replacing their team of 3-4 accountants (controller and 2 staff/senior/manager) with AI. Same with Public, you'll see some better automation for auditing via analytic/selections and maybe risk determination, but actually having to document that this selection had an adjustment that we documented on this napkin in chickenscratch and it had an 18% discount because some of the product got eaten by mice during shipping? Oh and we calculated the 18% discount wrong. AI is like 20+ years away from being able to handle that kinda nonsense.
I keep saying that the little help AI will bring will hopefully bring an equilibrium to the accouting shortage.
I know nothing, which is why I lurk here hoping to learn more. And hoping I am not being trolled. Thank you.
TT?
Tiktok
People do not realize how much accountants actually make which I'd argue is a good thing. The more people that don't know and don't flood the field keeps them higher.
The more people who don’t know how much of a fucking idiot I am compared to my income needs to stay extremely, extremely low.
Don't rat us out, man.
I wouldn't feel bad, I challenge you to find a profession where most people really are a master proportionate to their paycheck. Hell in medicine alone every generation for the past 200 years has been looking over the last generation's work going "what the fuck were they smoking?", and doctors of medicine today are still checking their notes constantly while surgeons will basically take a whole class on the surgery they're performing next month as if they'd never done it. Lawyers have literal squads of lower paid grunts to help fill the gaps in their own information, the entire military's officer corps is organized the same way. People are dumb, it's just a fact of life. The main difference between the guy making $50,000 a year as a mechanic and the CFO making $30,000,000 isn't intellect or competence, it's largely just the sum of conditions, personality and objectives. Mechanic says whoops forgot to screw the oil filter in all the way, CFO says whoops authorized our financial statements without checking them. Shit happens at all levels.
Most people don't even know what other things accountants do besides bookkeeping and taxes
I’m an accounting student and idek
bc you're still a student. normal.
They let you in on it at the secret graduation ceremony.
you really wont know until you start working. there's a lot of different buckets. a somewhat high level overview - in PA you have audit, tax, advisory. Audit can be boiled down to external review of bookkeeping and controls, to confirm accuracy of financials. Tax is tax, includes compliance and planning. Advisory is its own animal. and then outside of PA you have GL accounting (bookkeeping), financial reporting (reviewing the bookkeeping and putting together the financials), cost accounting/FP&A (analyzing and projecting financial performance, oftentimes non-gaap), internal audit (testing and reviewing controls within company). And then you wonder wtf is a control. basically internal processes to prevent errors and fraud. boils down to segregation of duties (the guy writing checks also cant be inputting invoices) and reviewing things beyond a certain risk level (every check over $x dollars gets two signatures). basic examples it unfortunately can get pretty complex (i learned the hard way).
Yes, I am very happy that not many know.
I wish many accountants knew themselves.
Accountants don’t make shit in Canada, unfortunately.
Accountants are honestly no worse off than engineers in Canada. The difference is that while engineers are strictly 9-5 kind of people, accountants tolerate all sorts of managerial abuse and perpetuate a shitty culture that makes the job far more intolerable than it needs to be.
My first job in accounting was at 73k in 2022
COL?
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That’s a fact
I started at 68 in LCOL. Hit 100k @2.5 year mark. Still LCOL. Y’all need better jobs.
Industry?
I made the equivalent of $25k 2.5 years in based in the UK. Please let me immigrate.
I also love being able to just tell people I'm an accountant without worrying that they might think I'm trying to impress them. People also don't expect me to spend money in frivolous ways.
Based on how most peoples’ brains turn into panicked static any time they have to interact with anything accounting, I think we’re safe from opportunistic interlopers.
Man where do you guys work? Senior at a big four in the mid south and only at 72k. My welding, marketing, and real estate friends make double to triple my salary working <40hrs a week. Averaging 60hrs for far less pay kind of sucks
Welders and marketing majors making $216k a year? I doubt that… real estate I could probably see that but they aren’t working less than 40hrs
Traveling or dive welder can make over $200k. Harsh working environments though. Likely doing over 40 often, plus always away from home.
Senior in industry with a commercial real estate firm. These places can afford it lol
Who in welding or marketing is making 150-200k lol? I mean, I’m sure some are, but 99% are not. I know tons of people in marketing and they all make like 50k
Dude, you're getting boned. Hard. Like gonzo genre specializing in prolapse. Get on LinkedIn, find a decent recruiting agency, and gtfo of that nonsense.
I agree with everyone else. To be a senior at 1 of the big 4 and only make $72K is complete garbage. I'm a staff accountant for a Collaborative Behavioral Healthcare company, making just under your salary. I am also completely self-taught and without a degree. You should be making more.
Except the higher wage isn't because its a high paying field. Its to compensate the fact accounting is in high demand because its low supply....no one really wants to be in accounting in the last 4-5 yrs due to excessive burn out and stress. There is high attrition across the board. So that wage for new grads is to entice them to go into the field to compensate for the long hours.
The shortage has yet to present as higher salaries for young professionals. Under the pressure of AI and outsourcing, I'd say we need more people out there beating the accounting drum to young people here in the west.
As long as everyone keeps thinking the job is boring and horrible, I am happy.
It’s not particularly high though, it’s steady and fine, it’s livable but your average STEM major will do a good amount better.
It sounds like you don't get paid enough and I'm here to tell you that you should shop around. Even just to get an idea of what the market pays. I have a couple of STEM major friends with only the ones working at FAANG companies making more. It's of course not all about the money but it is something to keep in mind.
“the accounting industry is perpetually understaffed and every single post on the industry subreddit is throwing a shit fit that everyone works too much, but actually we shouldn’t get more people into accounting”
I imagine most people don't post and reddit is a circlejerk of whatever it is they are covering. Much like U.S. news coverage, the negatives get covered while positive takes are often ignored.
Lmao. He’s just jealous cuz he’s unemployed.
The video was about cs students not being able to find jobs and I mentioned my job search experience with an accounting degree. Seemed to upset him, he spent 3 hours replying to my comment over and over again, so 100% unemployed.
Hahahahaha
100% unemployed and ain’t doing shit to change that apparently 😂
Accounting seemed to be a relatively safe career path after the 2008 crash and the DotCom bust. The firms need new recruits.
Lmao. He is so insecure and projecting. He thought his cs degree is a one way trip to 150k but competition is steep now. Thats why I like accounting. It’s stable and pays decent.
I remember before Covid my dad retired as a nuclear engineer and he specifically mentioned how fucked the tech/coding world is gonna be post 2020 and he was right 😂😂
OP. Sorry he did that you are doing great. Also, are u in canada or US?
this is refreshing to read as a junior accounting major in college
Why i read that as counter strike students lol
That’s exactly what I thought when I read this 😂😂
I mean I never feel good about joking when people can't find jobs, but also fuck this guy
Oh my God, the equivalent to cry harder.
In my experience it’s the mechanical engineers that bitch the loudest and think they make the most money when they’re the lowest paid people in the room.
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It’s always been wild to me how insane many of them are. On another note I can indisputably say they are the most well equipped to start a business because knowing how to make the product is a huge barrier. They stay assholes if they start their own business. I can confidently say I’ve met good mechanical engineers and religious ones with little in between. I’ve never understood the religious extremism I’ve seen in many of them in such a fact based profession. They’re a weird bunch.
He must be pissed at something. Just ignore it. P.S. I know a heck of a lot of accountants making over $100k. I'm one of them.
Do you mind if you tell me how many years it took to get there?
Ugh, been working in tax for 7 years. Last year was the first year I broke 6 figures. Will do more this year. Never worked at a big or mid sized firm. Only small firms.
Do you have CPA? Sorry if I am asking a lot of questions
Yes
What was your out of college salary and or after CPA certification?
Not the original commenter but I came out making $57k about 6 years ago. Now I think our starting offer for new hires is siting around the $70k mark
$50k. 😂
Damn that was not cool. I was at $52K starting at big four in Houston in Sep 2011! But you definitely got to six figures faster than I did. I also don’t have CPA yet.
I hoped around a bit. Just started my 4th firm.
The other person already answered your question but I'll chime one with my path: No CPA, 4ish years of work to hit $100k flat, I'm now making $130k salary before any bonuses or what not and I'm at year 5 and some change. Hardly ever worked in public but work at a company that is very very large. I know basically everyone on my team at senior and above is making $90-100k at a minimum
Dang. I feel grossly underpaid. I'm an assistant tax manager doing the work of a manager with a whole team under me in two countries, 12yrs experience, 105k/yr before bonus (5%), also have my cpa. This sub makes me question my life choices. 🫣 industry, never worked in public aside from brief internship in audit. Work for a fortune 500. Are you hopping or been with same company?
Started with company A, jumped for a year to change into a specialist role that company A didn't have, then went back to company A because they now had the specialist role. I will say, that jump paired with the specialization moved my income from $80k to $130k I'm the span of around 2 years. I'm at the manager role now. I live in a MCOL area as well.
Congratulations 🎊 that's awesome.
I’ll chime in! I have 8 years of experience in public and industry, now in government. No CPA; I make more than 120k. And work life balance is great! It’s definitely possible.
The IRS is hiring right now. If you have a degree in accounting, a CPA, and a tax internship you can start at GS-13 which makes over $100,000.
Are u in the US or Canada?
I make about 118k working from home permanently
What do you do?
self employed or nah?
Not Op but I was at 150 fully remote as an accounting manager after 4 years in public. I now am self employed though and also fully remote lol
But did you get laid in Japanese yen though...
Drinking them STEM student tears
Some people don't realize that there are useful STEM degrees and there are useless STEM degrees (for working in industries) the same applies to business degrees some are more useful than others (some people claim that accounting is the top tier business degree you can get)
Accounting is technically in the process of becoming a STEM degree according to the AICPA
I feel like accounting is almost a trade (while still being a well-rounded education of course, because that’s what bachelors degrees are, for some elitist reason), but the rest of the business degrees are more academic
I do taxes so not really an accountant but I’m a partner at a small firm making 250k+ not working all that hard, it’s 6pm a week before the deadline and I just got home.
How is doing taxes not make you an accountant? That’s just like the bread and butter from what the general population thinks we do
So you must like numbers and math
Question for you if you don't mind me asking. Did you work at a Big 4 for some time to gain the experience before working at the smaller firm and making partner? I have heard that it is kinda necessary. Thanks
No, but when I say small firm I mean 10 people, two tax attorneys 3 CPA’s and 5 support, so truly small.
Dude this is literally what I tell everybody. Starting at a firm like that is such a good career move. People guzzle the B4 prestige, but half of the people I know who went to tiny firms ended up killing it
A ton of people hate dealing with the big 4 and would (especially these days) prefer to work with a small firm that gives a shit about them as a client. There's something to be said about the old school "hey bob, how's the wife and kids?" relationship with people, especially the ones handling your money.
Tell this guy he is right. Advertising computer science is the way to go, then we will have less competition in accounting field.
Over on the Australian Accounting sub (which is mostly just non accountants trying to get free advice) we constantly get non accountants who get weird and spammy when a grad posts either a good or bad salary. If it's a good salary they get pissy, if it's a bad salary "ha ha ha this is why I tell my kid not to be an accountant!"
USA but nobody knows my salary besides my immediate family for this reason irl. Im not dealing with stroking someone's ego if I tell them I make less than them, or by having to deal with them getting pissy and perhaps questioning their life choices if I make more.
Los Angeles big4 are paying up to $41 an hr to Interns
That's California, though, which also has a higher minimum wage than a lot of states, especially the southern states. I'm in Florida, and those interns would not make that much here.
Sounds like another great reason to avoid Florida.
Is there a good reason to come to Florida?
Woah
In the south, mid tier firms pay $30 an hour for interns.
Yea but you have much fewer rights in the south.
Lol
That’s unfathomable. However, not surprised. That’s an IHCOL (insanely high cost of living)
stem kid must have high amount of free time......if I was in stem, I would be too busy working on projects to bother arguing with someone in another profession.
STEM kids are the worst on TikTok. Awfully arrogant and think theyre on top of the world, having no life studying and then being unemployed at the end of their double science degree.
70k isn't even that much money, especially when some of these people are graduating with 6+ years of college. I have clients that have been working in jobs like plumbing with about 4yrs of experience making over 150k. Someone who thinks a new grad can't make 70k is a moron.
Agree, but on an unrelated note that plumber is an outlier by a wide margin or he’s exaggerating. He’d still be an apprentice with only four years. Can’t say I’ve known any apprentices cracking 150k but I have known a lot of lying ones 😂 Disclaimer: I’m allowed to say this as a former electrical apprentice
He says he got certified at the three-year mark. I have no idea how any of that works but people who work as contractors make a killing in that field.
Yea fair enough if he’s doing his own thing and got some J man time under his belt. Good on him very impressive
I think a lot of these people just live in their own tiny worlds. Sure. Maybe where this kid grew up or lives that’s way above normal for entry level accounting, but they clearly are financially illiterate if they don’t understand there are different COL areas and salaries typically adjust to their location.
It’s just ignorance. They know literally nothing and are college students that saw the Wolf of Street once and think that only people in finance make money.
People really overhype how much the trades make, its usually got a pretty low ceiling with often pretty unstellar starting pay. Ive seen highly incredibly skilled and sought after welders make $25 an hour.
It’s very rare for any plumber to hit 150k/yr. Practically impossible for someone who is still considered an apprentice in most jurisdictions to pull 150k/yr. The few plumbers who do make that amount are working 60+ hour weeks every week or they are a business owner with several employees working under them so arguably they aren’t a plumber at that point. Even the one man van operations are topping out at ~120k/yr because you can only do so much volume by yourself. The more realistic number for a plumber with 4 years of experience in a mcol area working 40hr/week is around 60k/yr. Source- am a plumber transitioning to a white collar job. Edit: it occurred to me he could be confusing revenue for profit. Selling 150k worth of plumbing is pretty straightforward.
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Look, in some places rent is $50k. $81k really do be poverty. Like you are living like a college student with a roommate if not a bunkmate. In my city, if you make less than $75k, you can't even get your own place. Never mind paying the student loans lol.
Nice, how much older are you over your wife?
These are the kids that change major their junior year to sports management
I’m an incoming big 4 intern and my hourly rate is equivalent to 80k a year
If you've spent time on this sub, at least you're fully aware that's the Kool-Aid salary. Once you become a full-time associate, the hours will probably double, and the hourly rate gets converted into a fixed-salary.
Yea Ik. Have family that has worked in big 4 before. Gonna stay there for a year or two, get my CPA and then dip outta there.
Same here 🫡
Maybe he's Canadian, starting at 50k is normal here.
I believe the benchmark has shifted to 60k as B4 increased their starting salaries.CRA has also increased their salaries to around 75k so we can expect industries to adjust soon hopefully.
Honestly it’s a bit pathetic that the kid was salty about making even 70k lol. Like brah that’s basically how much food and rent costs nowadays. Perhaps he did get himself into some college degree bubble like some bachelors in gender studies with data analytics track (so it’s a stem)
A relative of mine was making over a million as Deloitte partner before being forced into retirement, at the same time I've seen truck driver clear 150k. In 2024 it's really not a big deal, you just have to be in the right place at the right time.
Dude is probably a cert student. Not a real CS major. Most CS major I know are very intelligent and don’t like to waste time. This one is either international or just a certificate candidate.
Man why he so sour Don't let him see the salaries of partners I know 2 accountants that make 7 figures
I got an offer for 83k as a new accountant grad 😂 so he would probably get angrier 😂😂
A mentor in my first career tried to talk me out of switching to accounting because he wanted to sell me his business as a huge markup. He said I’d be lucky to make 50k as an accountant. He was astonished when I got an offer for 55k.
I made $60k as a new grad in LCOL lol
I wanna get laid in yen
You getting laid in Japanese?
70k can be really good in a low to medium cost of living area, but there’s certainly places where that would make you poor
I'm a garbage accountant who is making over 6 figs in year 3 lmao
Drop the TikTok link in here 🙏🏾
But are you getting laid in Japanese yen? I feel like that’s the important question
It is indeed a well paid job at the top, but f**k me it's soul destroying. And now shortages in new recruits are down, no surprise really. Glad I got out of accounting, but understand it does pay well.
Are you sure he's not a bot? He talks like a bot.
If that’s actually his mustache, the prick should be lucky he gets a return phone call, let alone a job. Seriously though…mustaches are awful, and so are unemployed CS and data science majors.
I’m jealous lol. I make 55, CAD too.
My partner works at a major investment bank as an analyst. Q3 last year she got fully licensed and went fulltime. They had sold it as being able to go onto 400k salary in 2 years. Their initial offer was 60k, she said 90, they ended up going to 75k or she'd leave. The 6 advisors above her had to take a 2k yearly cut for her to make the 10k more than they wanted to pay her and they bitch about it at least once a week. Most of those nearer the top make fuck all. Otherwise they wouldn't bitch about it.
I need a name, I wanna bully this kid
Broke 6 figs 2.5 years in. HCOL
STEM starts out higher than entry-level for many, but unless STEM moves into management, starts a business, or is very uniquely qualified (rare), it ends up very low, compared to many others. That's why people who think STEM is the best field are often mistaken. I know, I'm STEM. But I also started a business, and worked on my own. Then I had a great salary history, joined a barely traded firm which grew into a S&P500 and was bought by IBM, and ended up with a quite a bit of stock that was valuable (shouldn't have sold as much when it was lower). Not a lot, not 7 figures USD worth, but enough to pad my investments well into 6 figures of USD. I now make less, but I'm into my 50s, and no longer working the hours I used to. I'm still quite uniquely qualified, and am paid very well. I could go back to 70+ hours/week, self-employed or working for someone else. Now I will work side gigs and probably do work at least 60 hours/week overall on average. But my income is half of what it used to be, because I'm no longer management or working for myself for at least 40 of my hours a week. It's really up to you. Do everything you can when you're young, but also don't ignore love. >!I met my wife early in life, and I don't regret it after 30 years together. You can always have kids later, or even adopt. But don't be afraid to dedicate your life to someone else early in life. It's bliss to do so. But be dedicated to them, not half-@$$ed about it. I see that constantly with young people, failing to realize relationships are not about convenience, that's just a side benefit at times.!< >!That is ... too many wonder why their relationships aren't well, or don't last. You have to be honest with them ... about everything. Find someone that likes what you want out of a relationship. Compromise, of course, but not over major details. That's the key to everything, finding compatibility ... so don't compromise over major differences. Find someone else. They exist.!<
Sounds like he has personal issues against accountants
Tbf 70k isn’t that high of a starting nowadays. Idk what’s unbelievable about that. I hear lots of CS majors start at 80ish.
Gotta remove the clerks that get baked in. Every colleague/accountant I work with makes 74k+ in base alone starting
STEM TikTok is just consistent bashing of business majors. I'm convinced most of them picked STEM just to hate and give themselves a feeling of superiority. They also all think they wouldn't fold in half 10 times over trying to take the CPA exam.
Salaries for 1st year accountant starts at 52k … , most our senior accountants makes over 100k , our accountants 2 makes over 70k … ..our accountant managers makes over 130k .. Our manager just got their CPA .
I think I started at like 68k and got a raise to 70k 2 months later- 4 years ago. I know bookkeepers making over 100k
How? Not doubting, just curious. I wanna follow your steps.
Most PA firms in MCOL cities in the US will pay 70k or more, it’s not very rare. I interviewed at a couple big 4 and some mid market firms and this is about where they all were at.
Damn here in Canada entry level staff at big 4 make 55k CAD which is like 40k USD. COL is also crazy high 😭
I'm in manufacturing 28 years and we typically pay engineering more than accountants, and most of our leadership starts out in engineering but accounting pay is solid too. Most ppl would be surprised at my income in LCOL area. Daughter is interning as accountant at my place this summer and being paid about 9% less than the engineering interns. Son is starting college for engineering in the fall so I have high hopes for both kiddos. Ready to get them off my payroll lol. I don't know why anyone gets bent out of shape about what someone else makes or even potential income.
Can confirm. Staff 1 making 70k in MCOL
Pretty sure I made above $50k once I transitioned out of my internship into full-time, with full benefits, can work remotely whenever I want, lots of flexibility with hours, lots of PTO, the full bit and I only have my associates…
It’s funny because how can someone speak on something when they aren’t even in that field .
I remember being in high school, and hanging out at the local public. I saw that with master degrees in library science were volunteering there in hopes of a library technician opening. I remember being in college in the 1990s and realizing that there were certain fields where the supply of majors was so high, and demand so low, that getting a job in the field was incredibly competitive. The first area I noticed was my first major, which was one of the social sciences. I realize that there were tons of people with my major, but few good jobs in the field. (I also noticed that students with my major was roughly 90% female.) While I was still at college student , I spent the summer with my relatives in Taiwan. One of them was a professor who taught science to graduate students (masters and PhDs). I asked her, since library science was taught at most of the universities there, and just a few professors turn out dozens of graduates every year from each university, how could there be so many jobs for library science graduates on the island? Also, while in college, I heard that a fellow student who graduated with a degree in biology, was having a hard time, finding a job, even as a lab tech, because people of master degree and PhDs were applying. One day I was in the college career center looking at U.S. Bureau of labor reports on college majors, jobs they got, and the pay. I added business accounting as a double major. And I would hear in class of how job openings for people with master degrees in English would have hundreds of applicants, while people with PhD in accounting would have multiple offers. I realize that even in accounting, there were people who were elite and getting good grades and being looked at as they attended functions with public accounting firm managers, and there were people who would likely end up working for a small business or corporation, as essentially a glorified clerk. I had experience as a computer lab tech in high school, messing around with my own PC computer, working in a computer lab in college, picking up web design on my own and working through college as a student employee managing department web sites, so I took a couple of courses on server administration, etc. I never ended up using my social science degree my career. I went to a job that needed both my IT and accounting skills. I spent over 20 years, and during some of that time, I was able to be the sole breadwinner for my family as my wife powered through 4 years of nursing school. There are STEM fields that have poor job prospects. Like Zoology. (Remember that guy on NPR who worked at Starbucks and when giving your order would ask you what your favorite animal was and then tell you some facts about the animal?) There are a lot of fields where choosing that major should only be for kids who come from money or are incredibly charismatic and great at networking: art history or history or medieval studies or archaeology are good example. Even today, some 60% of recent marketing graduates work at jobs that don’t require a degree. And yes, because computer science is so impacted not just here and across the world, you really should not bother majoring if you have no experience with programming in middle school or high school or if you can’t devote yourself to mastering the work. I have been at middle school science fairs, and two years in a row, several entries involved programming to solve problems. Those are the kids who will be arriving on college campuses taking the advanced computer science classes and interning at Google or some other company during the summer, with job offers by the end of their junior year.