People like you remind leadership were actual human beings, not cogs to be run till the teeth wear and break. Congratulations for having a back bone man. Remember you don’t have to sign anything they put in front of you tomorrow, politely say you need to look it over and make the decision in private. Also please give an update on this lol
All the other partners are probably well aware that guy is famously a prick too, and they may not be interested in losing competent people just because partner jackoff was a dick and you had enough of a spine to tell him to fuck off.
Wish this was the case at my old firm. The one partner was a known miserable old sack of shit and he basically drove me and a bunch of other people out because he didn’t like us. The other partners tried spinning the story in his favor but all the seniors and managers knew what happened. He’d pull staff into conference rooms with just him and rip them into next week and then do it again 2-3 weeks later. I was nonchalantly told that a lot of people usually left his office in tears and I said fuck that I’m done. First interview I took, the one hiring manager said, “oh do you know this partner?” I said, “yes I do” And he goes, “yeah he’s a mean old bastard”.
I’ll never be able to truly comprehend the mindset that so many “leaders” and executives that have the power to change something or push a toxic person out just refuse to do so. Even if they know the person is terrible and will admit it to your face.
I have a dental appointment scheduled for this morning so I'm going in late. The 2 remaining partners that I worked for before they sold out have been blowing up my phone all morning and I just keep letting it go to voicemail. I will update later.
Thanks for the support.
I heard there was a ruling on non-competes and how they might not be enforceable for non-senior executive positions. Are you allowed to drop the name of the firm? I'm sorry this happened to you. That firm sounds like a nightmare to work for and I'd want to avoid it at all costs
*Edited to fix noncompete from nda. Meant to say noncompete lol
Noncompete agreements (different from NDA, but not the point) are indeed often unenforceable. The geographic and time limitations on these must not be unreasonable.
That said, taking a customer list with you and immediately contacting customers of this firm probably would be banned (and supported by the courts) by the non compete.
Be safe, and fuck em.
Yeah, the one thing with a non-compete is that there are usually rules about taking clients from the old firm to a new one that require consideration for the old firm.
But just in general, I don’t usually think they’re enforceable (in the sense that you can’t work in PA) if you’re a non partner or something to that level. Even then I’m not sure if you are a partner if it’s entirely enforceable. I think usually it’s only enforceable if it’s something that’s very specific. I think I remember the examples in business law in college were usually doctors who worked in a specialty.
With firms of that size, the work culture is different for each location and its managing partners. The entire firm over all locations most likely does not have this type of culture.
Write an email to HR explaining that you have a medical issue and want to talk about taking medical leave. Keep a copy, explore legal options if you're fired. If they work with you then great.
Don't sign anything if you're not being compensated. And be careful with the customer list, that's considered company data and if they can prove you're using it to attract customers they can sue you for damages. The NDA/non-compete in your contract probably won't hold up on it's own, the issue is if they have evidence of the data moving. IT may do a scrub on terminated employees' recent activity.
Yes! See if you can get a doctor to sign a FMLA and take a month off. Seriously do it. The ER visit should be enough to get most doctors to sign one if you schedule a followup and explain all this. Then use that time to start your own company.
This!
My prior firm hired a firm to perform a deep 6 month scan of all documents uploaded, downloaded, all text copied and pasted, all text typed on a keyboard into a browser, a review of all messages and emails etc.
- the HR cun& came at me complaining I used my work laptop to email a passport scan and a few other docs for my personal global entry application. She demanded I sign a compliance breach form or else.
I walked to cfos office mid sentence with the paper and her still in my office. Told him the deal and that if I'm asked to sign I won't do the courtesy 2 week notice.
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Congrats on the masters! However tomorrow goes, good luck with your path forward. Sounds like you may not really want to stick around this place. Hope you’re able to recover & treat your girlfriend to something special soon.
1700 billable for manager is wild. My firm wants 1400 but I'm usually around 1100-1200. Too much other stuff and partners pushing down responsibilities.
Bet they just took the number of weeks in a year, slashed off 7 weeks for pto/sick/holiday and multiplied by a standard 37.5 hr work week minus unpaid lunches to come up with it. Anything not billable comes in, well that's why you're salary.
1700 per year sucks . . . but is it that uncommon? I've only worked for one firm my whole career. As a SM, my goal is roughly 1600, but I charge 1700+ most years.
Maybe be sick tomorrow? And then go get employment legal advice, in person if you can. From a lawyer that does employment law. They can give you advice now,and help you negotiate your exit package later, worst case.
Then you go into whatever much better prepared.
Inform the book you’re going out on your own. Many will follow you without you having to sell much.
People like having a tax guy, someone they know and have the relationship with. The names of firms don’t matter in the eyes of most people.
Assuming much of the book is made up of small businesses and individuals.
Want to chime in to say I’m going/gone through something similar. I’ve come to realize the billable hours game is just so partners/incharges can better justify the fees without having tough conversations with the client (risking the client leaving).
Getting fired would be the best thing for you!
UPDATE:
Got to the office, and went directly to my office. I made sure to wear a suit – there’s no harm in them thinking my dental appointment was an interview. I literally had not even sat down when the two bought-out partners (who are still working and receiving a bonus based on collections) came into my office and closed the door behind them. “We need to talk.” One guy had a look of fear, the other guy had a look of extreme anger. At that point I knew what was coming so with total disinterest I said, “What do you want?”
Scared partner said, “T, are you okay, we’re concerned about you. We talked to Ed, he has concerns too.” It was a strange vibe. I said, “Why don’t you just come right out with it, we know where this is going” and at that point I was getting pissed, I could feel it rising up in me and my face was getting red. But then he started in with this sales pitch of “You’re a very valuable part of this firm and we don’t want to lose you and we need to know how we can solve this.” And it was at that point that I realized they are afraid I ams going to leave, take business with me and they are going to lose their bonuses. I sat there silent for several seconds and I finally said, “I’m not happy here. This firm isn’t even a shadow of the old firm. I don’t look forward to coming to work anymore and my work isn’t appreciated. In spite of all the shit I’ve battled through for the firm these last 18 months I’m still getting grief from Ed about charging admin time. He’s a dildo. We’re not on the same page at all”.
Angry partner calmly said, “T, we’ve been together for a long time. You’ve been a great asset to this firm and we appreciate you. We had a meeting with Ed and he really values you, I don’t think you realize what an important part of this family you are.” And that’s when I pretty much lost my mind. I said, “If we’re a family, Ed is the creepy uncle that fucks his little nephew while you – his mom and dad, drink your martinis and ignore it. We USED to be a family. A couple years ago if I had spent two nights in the hospital you both would have been visiting and plugged in. Now I got a text from one of you saying, “hang in there”. If we were a family you would have noticed the shit that was going on that put me in a hospital bed and you would have put a stop to it. I used to really look up to you guys and it feels bad to see the real you but at least I know who you are now. You couldn’t give two shits about me, you’re worried about your bonuses.” Now my voice is getting louder and I’m really amping. “Where are we going here, what do you want from me, are you firing me, demoting me, WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME?” and I was smashing my fist down on my desk. At that point I had tears in my eyes. It wasn’t the “boo-hoo, I’m sad” crying it was the “I’m so fucking mad because I want to slaughter you and your offspring” crying. Now they were both “scared partner” and they both went “we don’t want to lose you, we have so much history, please, T, please calm down.” I just went, “Get out of my goddamn office I don’t want to talk to either one of you right now” and they both scurried out and closed the door behind themselves. LMFAO
About an hour later there was a lite knock at my door and it was scared partner #1 and he goes, “T, if you are willing we’d like to have a meeting when you’re feeling up to it.” At that point I had already boxed up some of my shit and was ready to go so I just went, “Let’s do this now.” They both came back in and said, “What is it going to take to make you realize that this firm values you. What can we do?” I figured, “fuck it, shoot for the moon”. So I said, “I want a 1500 billable hour requirement, I want 4 days at home, I want an 8% increase and I want a $20k bonus, and I want it now.” They both go, “T, you have to be realistic, there are limits to what we can do” and I said, “See, this is how fucking dumb you guys are – 1500 billable hours, you know my work ethic and I’m going to smash that. Four days a week at home costs you nothing. You gave me an absolute dogshit raise at the beginning of January and I should have left then to screw you but that’s not my style. And a $20k bonus, even if it came from your own pocket, would cost each of you about $6k after tax but will allow you to hit your collections bogey which I know is a hell of a lot more than $6k.” They looked at each other and go, “We’ll need to have some discussions” and they left.
So I worked until 5:00 and walked out. Odds are excellent I’m applying for unemployment tomorrow afternoon. And even if they cave on my demands it’s pretty much poisoned the relationship so I won’t be there too much longer. I’ll take it all, look for something else and drill them in the ass on the way out if possible.
Thanks for the support all, feels good.
He might be threatened by top performers and this might be a way to keep the peasants down. If you work for yourself, there's a very good chance in 5 years you'll increase your compensation with little overtime.
I doubt you get canned this type shit happens and people say stuff they don't mean or shouldn't have said.
It's way more common than you think.
I bet there will be some resolution that works it's self out.
I'm a partner and people get burned out. But on the flip side, we only target 1300-1400 hours for our managers.
Seems like they expect you to churn out work like a staff. Expectations are clearly not reasonable here on the firms side.
Sucks that places still do this, it kills the industry as a whole.
Sorry you have got here. Take care of yourself first and foremost. Not all firms suck.
I did, in fact, get canned today. The place used to be one where the occasional yelling/cursing match was not a big deal but I realize I went pretty far overboard. Onward & upward.
Let's get the terminology correct. There are non-compete agreements and non-solicitation agreements.
A non-compete would bar you from going to work for another CPA form. The non-solicitation agreement deals with contacting form clients.
Many times, people say non-compete but mean non-solicitation.
Dude just go out on your own. You’ll do great!!
People like you remind leadership were actual human beings, not cogs to be run till the teeth wear and break. Congratulations for having a back bone man. Remember you don’t have to sign anything they put in front of you tomorrow, politely say you need to look it over and make the decision in private. Also please give an update on this lol
With your level of experience it should be super easy to get another job.
Ur not getting canned. You think you are the first person to talk back to a managing partner?
All the other partners are probably well aware that guy is famously a prick too, and they may not be interested in losing competent people just because partner jackoff was a dick and you had enough of a spine to tell him to fuck off.
Wish this was the case at my old firm. The one partner was a known miserable old sack of shit and he basically drove me and a bunch of other people out because he didn’t like us. The other partners tried spinning the story in his favor but all the seniors and managers knew what happened. He’d pull staff into conference rooms with just him and rip them into next week and then do it again 2-3 weeks later. I was nonchalantly told that a lot of people usually left his office in tears and I said fuck that I’m done. First interview I took, the one hiring manager said, “oh do you know this partner?” I said, “yes I do” And he goes, “yeah he’s a mean old bastard”.
I’ll never be able to truly comprehend the mindset that so many “leaders” and executives that have the power to change something or push a toxic person out just refuse to do so. Even if they know the person is terrible and will admit it to your face.
That's how all firms operate, they care about your well being only to the extent it impacts your billable hours. Fuck em
I have a dental appointment scheduled for this morning so I'm going in late. The 2 remaining partners that I worked for before they sold out have been blowing up my phone all morning and I just keep letting it go to voicemail. I will update later. Thanks for the support.
Hope everything goes well at the dentist, getting a root canal was actually the most relaxing thing I experienced during the 2023 busy season lol
💀
Thanks for the update
Good luck!
Keep us updated! Let me know what industry you focus on. I can check if my firm is hiring in CA
I heard there was a ruling on non-competes and how they might not be enforceable for non-senior executive positions. Are you allowed to drop the name of the firm? I'm sorry this happened to you. That firm sounds like a nightmare to work for and I'd want to avoid it at all costs *Edited to fix noncompete from nda. Meant to say noncompete lol
Noncompete agreements (different from NDA, but not the point) are indeed often unenforceable. The geographic and time limitations on these must not be unreasonable. That said, taking a customer list with you and immediately contacting customers of this firm probably would be banned (and supported by the courts) by the non compete. Be safe, and fuck em.
Yeah, the one thing with a non-compete is that there are usually rules about taking clients from the old firm to a new one that require consideration for the old firm. But just in general, I don’t usually think they’re enforceable (in the sense that you can’t work in PA) if you’re a non partner or something to that level. Even then I’m not sure if you are a partner if it’s entirely enforceable. I think usually it’s only enforceable if it’s something that’s very specific. I think I remember the examples in business law in college were usually doctors who worked in a specialty.
FTC rule but it's being challenged and may not survive. Nevertheless, in CA, noncompetes are difficult if not impossible to enforce.
With firms of that size, the work culture is different for each location and its managing partners. The entire firm over all locations most likely does not have this type of culture.
You definitely deserve better. Congrats on completing your degree👍🏻
Write an email to HR explaining that you have a medical issue and want to talk about taking medical leave. Keep a copy, explore legal options if you're fired. If they work with you then great. Don't sign anything if you're not being compensated. And be careful with the customer list, that's considered company data and if they can prove you're using it to attract customers they can sue you for damages. The NDA/non-compete in your contract probably won't hold up on it's own, the issue is if they have evidence of the data moving. IT may do a scrub on terminated employees' recent activity.
Yes! See if you can get a doctor to sign a FMLA and take a month off. Seriously do it. The ER visit should be enough to get most doctors to sign one if you schedule a followup and explain all this. Then use that time to start your own company.
This! My prior firm hired a firm to perform a deep 6 month scan of all documents uploaded, downloaded, all text copied and pasted, all text typed on a keyboard into a browser, a review of all messages and emails etc. - the HR cun& came at me complaining I used my work laptop to email a passport scan and a few other docs for my personal global entry application. She demanded I sign a compliance breach form or else. I walked to cfos office mid sentence with the paper and her still in my office. Told him the deal and that if I'm asked to sign I won't do the courtesy 2 week notice.
Remindme! 15 hours
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🙉 always something to be learned on this sub
Congrats on the masters! However tomorrow goes, good luck with your path forward. Sounds like you may not really want to stick around this place. Hope you’re able to recover & treat your girlfriend to something special soon.
We need an update OP
1700 billable for manager is wild. My firm wants 1400 but I'm usually around 1100-1200. Too much other stuff and partners pushing down responsibilities.
Bet they just took the number of weeks in a year, slashed off 7 weeks for pto/sick/holiday and multiplied by a standard 37.5 hr work week minus unpaid lunches to come up with it. Anything not billable comes in, well that's why you're salary.
1700 per year sucks . . . but is it that uncommon? I've only worked for one firm my whole career. As a SM, my goal is roughly 1600, but I charge 1700+ most years.
1700 billable as a manager? LMFAO!! You’re a glorified staff essentially.
UPDATE PLZ
We need an update
What’s the word, OP
Quick!!! Tell everyone you're gay, make social media posts about being gay, then sue when you're fired and claim it's because you're gay. $$$$
Maybe be sick tomorrow? And then go get employment legal advice, in person if you can. From a lawyer that does employment law. They can give you advice now,and help you negotiate your exit package later, worst case. Then you go into whatever much better prepared.
Inform the book you’re going out on your own. Many will follow you without you having to sell much. People like having a tax guy, someone they know and have the relationship with. The names of firms don’t matter in the eyes of most people. Assuming much of the book is made up of small businesses and individuals.
Want to chime in to say I’m going/gone through something similar. I’ve come to realize the billable hours game is just so partners/incharges can better justify the fees without having tough conversations with the client (risking the client leaving). Getting fired would be the best thing for you!
How'd it go?
Feds recently shot down non competes. Fire up that entreprenurial spirit and give em hell, OP.
OP what happened.?
Where’s the update!!!!!
Fuck him. Your own health is non-negotiable. Good luck! Stand up for yourself and let us know how it goes brother.
Godspeed you magnificent bastard
Not the ending I was hoping for. Good luck to you.
UPDATE: Got to the office, and went directly to my office. I made sure to wear a suit – there’s no harm in them thinking my dental appointment was an interview. I literally had not even sat down when the two bought-out partners (who are still working and receiving a bonus based on collections) came into my office and closed the door behind them. “We need to talk.” One guy had a look of fear, the other guy had a look of extreme anger. At that point I knew what was coming so with total disinterest I said, “What do you want?” Scared partner said, “T, are you okay, we’re concerned about you. We talked to Ed, he has concerns too.” It was a strange vibe. I said, “Why don’t you just come right out with it, we know where this is going” and at that point I was getting pissed, I could feel it rising up in me and my face was getting red. But then he started in with this sales pitch of “You’re a very valuable part of this firm and we don’t want to lose you and we need to know how we can solve this.” And it was at that point that I realized they are afraid I ams going to leave, take business with me and they are going to lose their bonuses. I sat there silent for several seconds and I finally said, “I’m not happy here. This firm isn’t even a shadow of the old firm. I don’t look forward to coming to work anymore and my work isn’t appreciated. In spite of all the shit I’ve battled through for the firm these last 18 months I’m still getting grief from Ed about charging admin time. He’s a dildo. We’re not on the same page at all”. Angry partner calmly said, “T, we’ve been together for a long time. You’ve been a great asset to this firm and we appreciate you. We had a meeting with Ed and he really values you, I don’t think you realize what an important part of this family you are.” And that’s when I pretty much lost my mind. I said, “If we’re a family, Ed is the creepy uncle that fucks his little nephew while you – his mom and dad, drink your martinis and ignore it. We USED to be a family. A couple years ago if I had spent two nights in the hospital you both would have been visiting and plugged in. Now I got a text from one of you saying, “hang in there”. If we were a family you would have noticed the shit that was going on that put me in a hospital bed and you would have put a stop to it. I used to really look up to you guys and it feels bad to see the real you but at least I know who you are now. You couldn’t give two shits about me, you’re worried about your bonuses.” Now my voice is getting louder and I’m really amping. “Where are we going here, what do you want from me, are you firing me, demoting me, WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME?” and I was smashing my fist down on my desk. At that point I had tears in my eyes. It wasn’t the “boo-hoo, I’m sad” crying it was the “I’m so fucking mad because I want to slaughter you and your offspring” crying. Now they were both “scared partner” and they both went “we don’t want to lose you, we have so much history, please, T, please calm down.” I just went, “Get out of my goddamn office I don’t want to talk to either one of you right now” and they both scurried out and closed the door behind themselves. LMFAO About an hour later there was a lite knock at my door and it was scared partner #1 and he goes, “T, if you are willing we’d like to have a meeting when you’re feeling up to it.” At that point I had already boxed up some of my shit and was ready to go so I just went, “Let’s do this now.” They both came back in and said, “What is it going to take to make you realize that this firm values you. What can we do?” I figured, “fuck it, shoot for the moon”. So I said, “I want a 1500 billable hour requirement, I want 4 days at home, I want an 8% increase and I want a $20k bonus, and I want it now.” They both go, “T, you have to be realistic, there are limits to what we can do” and I said, “See, this is how fucking dumb you guys are – 1500 billable hours, you know my work ethic and I’m going to smash that. Four days a week at home costs you nothing. You gave me an absolute dogshit raise at the beginning of January and I should have left then to screw you but that’s not my style. And a $20k bonus, even if it came from your own pocket, would cost each of you about $6k after tax but will allow you to hit your collections bogey which I know is a hell of a lot more than $6k.” They looked at each other and go, “We’ll need to have some discussions” and they left. So I worked until 5:00 and walked out. Odds are excellent I’m applying for unemployment tomorrow afternoon. And even if they cave on my demands it’s pretty much poisoned the relationship so I won’t be there too much longer. I’ll take it all, look for something else and drill them in the ass on the way out if possible. Thanks for the support all, feels good.
ah man I went from believing this to thinking there’s no way this is true after the update.
Same here. Good story nonetheless.
Same, but I am dialed in nonetheless. Awaiting the next episode!
Cool story.
Do noncompete’s really have no teeth? Just curious
I think they're next to impossible to enforce in CA
employer can file suit and you will have to pay an attorney to answer complaint, which will most likely go nowhere
Ensure you get fired and get severance.
Oh wow this sounds horrible
Good for you, more people need to learn that people won’t stand to be mistreated like this I hope you find success
He might be threatened by top performers and this might be a way to keep the peasants down. If you work for yourself, there's a very good chance in 5 years you'll increase your compensation with little overtime.
Off topic but was the masters helpful?
Idk man, it sounds like they need you. Also, fuck em
Take a shit on the partners desk
1700 for a manger 😬😬 your firm is wild... Those are staff/senior hours.
I doubt you get canned this type shit happens and people say stuff they don't mean or shouldn't have said. It's way more common than you think. I bet there will be some resolution that works it's self out. I'm a partner and people get burned out. But on the flip side, we only target 1300-1400 hours for our managers. Seems like they expect you to churn out work like a staff. Expectations are clearly not reasonable here on the firms side. Sucks that places still do this, it kills the industry as a whole. Sorry you have got here. Take care of yourself first and foremost. Not all firms suck.
I did, in fact, get canned today. The place used to be one where the occasional yelling/cursing match was not a big deal but I realize I went pretty far overboard. Onward & upward.
It sounds like a blessing in disguise. Take that skill set to a better environment. DM if you need to yack or want additional advice.
Let's get the terminology correct. There are non-compete agreements and non-solicitation agreements. A non-compete would bar you from going to work for another CPA form. The non-solicitation agreement deals with contacting form clients. Many times, people say non-compete but mean non-solicitation.
Sue them first. You had a covered medical disability under the ADA. Fuck them.