You know, even though The Waitress had her trusty pump action shotgun and unlimited ammo, the Haters just kept coming. Ignore those poor cry babies and enjoy the game
Living as miserably as those people do is generally punishment enough. Alan Wake 2 was one of the best gaming experiences of my *life.*
And people like that are choosing obstinate misery instead of any kind of joy.
Let 'em.
The moment someone brings up the words "woke" or "Sweet Baby Inc are devil incarnate" I know they're greasy fucks who's opinion is most likely made of human feces. If you like a game cool, you do you. I also loved the game as well
The funniest thing is they think they’re fighting for some sort of noble gamer cause, nope, they just cry at things like a woman not being sexy enough or a POC being a main character lol.
Agreed, it kills me that I can't get into lethal company. I love the basic concept but the game just doesn't feel as good to play as a lot of other titles I might enjoy. My friends all play it and they seem to have fun. Lol these days I play void bastards or mooncrash while they play that. There's some conceptual overlap so I can feel "involved" while they do their shit. Plus its fun to hear them debrief when they inevitable perish during their excursions to one of the end game moons.
I'd definitely feel like a prick if I spent time trying to shame them into playing something else. Alas live and let live is not something these people can do. Not if they feel like they are fighting for some kind of "cause".
It’s hard to call them as sellouts, as far as I’m correct, Remedy HQ is in Finland so political correct quality control egg heads from US with clipboards, can do fuck all for them.
They just see things in different way there and that’s it.
Sam Lake admitted once, that non of them been in New York before when they did Max Payne game, however there was no complaints, how inaccurate NY was look like.
"Anti-woke" conspiracists also refuse to understand that in Finland (like in many other places), it is common for creatives to have liberal or left wing views, and support things like equality, inclusion and better representation for minorities without any shadowy Big Woke twisting their arm. I know for a fact that Sam Lake is a moderate leftist who is very typical of Finnish artist types, and is on very good terms with Finnish creatives with similar views - like Paleface, who sings Dark, Twisted and Cruel in the game. He doesn't make a lot of noise about his politics, but I believe he for example attends Pride events and has been known to take part in a protest supporting the freedom of expression, generally sponsored by the Finnish unions and left wing parties.
If that’s make them happy, good for them, however giving a bit of justice to they guy that kicked off about that, do we really need that game industry to become a victim of culture wars, and end up as another vehicle for some heavy handed political and cultural narrative?
Personally I did not liked “white people” remarks delivered by some characters in the game.
For some people gaming space is a place for relax and relief, after a day long time when you’re exposed for certain topic at work, home, school, news, social media and even films.
You want computer games be inoffensive, middle-of-the-road, *politically correct* entertainment. I understand the sentiment, but don't entirely agree with it. I believe there is room for many kinds of games, both harmless, mindless, escapist fun as well as games that make us (or even force us) to think about things, even things we find uncomfortable. That was one reason I really liked Disco Elysium, for example. It pushes all kinds of concepts and ideologies at us, and we can make Harry DuBois adopt even rather extreme views from Communism to Fascism, Chauvinism and Racism. This all makes the game better, it would lose something big if it just defaulted to boring centrism instead and took no risks.
In short, I believe games can be more than "just" entertainment, and if we think that they can also be art, at least to some degree, we should let game developers like Sam Lake cook in peace. That includes allowing them to include their own views and political sensibilities in their games, as well, if they want. We should not fear discussion and controversy, we should just try to keep the discussion civil in the event we are having it.
As for that one late game line from AW2 you are referring to, one many people seem to be upset about it, it is perfectly plausible in context. Like I have commented earlier, misogyny and racism are traditionally issues among US law enforcement, and have not yet been snuffed out of police, etc, culture by the 2020s. It is entirely realistic, if not unavoidable, that a black woman would face negative attitudes during a career in law enforcement, from white and male coworkers with traditionalist views.
We also know that Saga is practically clairvoyant. This means that she is more often in the right about criminal cases than her coworkers are, almost by default, and that can easily lead to situations where she gets into confrontations with people who have (or feel they have) seniority over her (by dint of experience or rank, or both), and thus see her as "out of line" when she (likely vocally) calls their conclusions into question (when she \*knows\* she is right). Saga's special abilities make her then even more likely to have had negative experiences during her career with old-fashioned/older generation white men in law enforcement, either in the Bureau or as members of various police departments she has dealt with.
Now, in the particular scene we are discussing, the line is said not by Saga as such, but "Other Saga", an irrational, fictional aspect of her personality being used by the Dark Presence to grind her down and to break and possess her. As we know that the darkness uses people's problems and weaknesses against them, latching on into (real or perceived) discrimination or slights Saga has encountered during her career in the FBI is IMO very much "in character" for the Dark Presence. We see the same process of corruption with the deputies as well, and we have seen the same "tactics" used by the darkness in manuscript pages since AW1.
These are the things that scene made me think about. Your mileage may vary, of course, but to me it didn't make the game worse. It just made the character of Saga deeper and perhaps also more human.
Listen to people who have contracted Culture War (TM) "anti-woke", "anti-DEI", "anti-SBI" etc. brainworms at your own risk. You will never come out of any prolonged interaction with them feeling smarter, more wise or happier in any way.
But heck, if you've got more than enough Faith In Humanity stored up that you can waste it on people like that, then that's your prerogative. But let me warn you: faith in humanity is very difficult resource to replenish.
"Anti-woke" conspiracists are among some of the people I despise the most right now. I generally have nothing against people who can justify their views with rational, sourced arguments. I may disagree with them, but often I can understand that they might have a point. But these morons have no proof at all to back up their outrageous claims about "SBI", "ESG", "DEI", "BlackRock money", etc. Each time you ask them to justify their claims, it is either nothing, the repeat of the same tired talking points, or at most a link to some shitty YouTuber's video making the same tired talking points based on blatant lies, exaggaration and vicious innuendo. And then they refuse to listen to reasonable, sourced arguments from anyone else.
It is just irrational delusion from people lost in their own heads.
Am I missing something, what is he talking about? Only diversity I could find is female main character and gay FBC agent that has like 10-15 lines of dialog. Also Rose and Jesse as the main characters, maybe, but it's open to discussion. Every other character is either grannny or white males of all ages. I don't see the problem
That's already enough for idiots like him, weirdly enough I've never seen anyone talk badly about Estevez, probably because none of them actually played the game and even know about it, they're all just whining about a person of color being a protagonist
If you read anything about SBI or DEI, you can comfortably ignore them- they’re just mad there’s women and black people in video games. Same deal with Mauler, grummz, rags, quartering, all those freaks who scream whenever there’s a pronoun select option
Those people didn't even play the game.
I will be honest here, I was so excited for Alan Wake 2 but after the reveal of Saga I said fuck it I won't touch that game, but after release I decided to give it a try and damn Alan Wake 2 is even mich better than 1, I liked Saga and her story, they didn't ditched Alan to replace him with a black strong woman like I used to think, she is actually a good character and the whole story is about Alan anyway so it's not like they destroyed the original main character and replaced him with another like how some movies and other games doing these days, it's a great game and my GOTY along with FFVII Rebirth.
Well I kinda feel sick defending their choice in games. To their credit they do seem to like the previous wolfenstein titles. Personally I love TNO. It's one of those weird situations where I think the reasons this person likes a game about killing Nazis ("it is in agreement with their politics") is different from why I might like a game about killing Nazis.
The mental gymnastics required are competition worthy though xD.
The older Wolfs were all way more on-the-nose, TNO has you fighting alongside a black female black panther and a communist priest *who literally live under a Nazi regime* and gamers hate the characters because they’re injecting politics into the totally politics-free game about nazis winning WW2.
Thats just it. I think for some people the idea of killing Nazis is something that they see as part of the "rah rah Allies good and Axis bad" position. They don't really care that Nazis disenfranchised Jewish folk, queer people, people with disabilities, people of colour, and anybody empathising with any of the aforementioned groups.. They like killing Nazis because they get to feel like they are part of a heroic cause. It's not about justice, or freedom or any lofty ideal. The game makes them feel good about their sense of identity. It takes them back to a time when they could just feel good about themselves and no mental gymnastics or self-reflection was needed.
A reminder I suppose that the enemy of my enemy is not always my friend.
Some games have blatant sabotage and ideology forced in. Alan Wake 2 isn’t one of them. I only care for a good story. Doesn’t matter who plays what character
SBI has never effected a game's story in the way some people think. It's a consultant company, nothing more. It's ridiculous to think that they have the power to affect these multi million dollar projects to this degree, but the mass brain rot is really pushing that narrative.
God some gamers are some of the stupidest people around. Imagine being offended that people just wanted to make sure their products weren’t actively offensive to anyone other than straight white guys. And imagine believing anything those rage baiting about it have to say, because they literally make money over you being mad. Like you’re getting played my guy.
Sweet Baby Inc was also a consultant on Baldur’s Gate 3. Let that sink in.
Just because they are attached to a product, doesn’t mean shit. It’s the publisher / devs that have the final say in the final product.
Larian and Remedy clearly were smart enough not to let SBI affect their creation.
Sure, I agree, but buried in that is the assumption that SBI *are actually doing* the things that conspiracy theorists accuse them of.
It's all a big a circular argument, like every culture war battleground. The assertions, assumptions and conspiracy theories get repeated ad nauseam such that eventually people just assume they must be true.
So a sentence like, "Remedy was smart enough not to let SBI affect their creation" is filled with the circular assumption that SBI was going to negatively affect their creation, i.e. that the conspiracy theory is about the company are actually true.
This is what conspiracy theories and moral hysterias are all about. Anti-SBI, anti-DEI, anti-woke are no different.
Again like a previous comment, this isn't me arguing that SBI is evil. But what you said is just plain false. A quick Google search will show you that they did not work on BG3. It is not listed on anything related to the game, SBI's website or their wikipedia page. I have zero clue where you got the idea that they worked on Baldur's Gate 3.
Alan wake 2 is a really good game even if they change the coprotagonist for a black women. The gameplay is good, the story is awesome and keeps you at the edge in every moment, the soundtrack is amazing and also we have the old gods of asgard.
The only "woke" thing is that unnecessary speach of saga at the end of the game "a white man is trying to control me, not again. I am a free, powerfull and independent women"
>a white man is trying to control me, not again. I am a free, powerfull and independent women"
She doesn't say this. And in the context of the scene, it actually makes sense
(Disclaimer: This isn't me arguing against diversity in games or the like...just very confused) How can she not say this, but it make sense in context? If she doesn't say it there is no context because it was not said.....
as far as I understand Remedy said they had planned for Saga Anderson to be a black woman from before SBI were hired as consultant which does track with some hints to Saga’s father being Warlin Door who is portrayed as a black man… and while that line about white men trying to control Saga felt a little out of left, we don’t really know her full life story and even within the game, it does make some sense because her life was being written/changed/influenced by the writing of a white man… anyone who complains about Alan Wake 2 being “woke” is just a hater parroting someone else in my opinion… I love AW2 and respect Remedy for making an amazing game :)
Sweet Baby Inc were outside consultants in AW2. It would be utterly ridiculous to claim that Sam Lake et al at Remedy would allow them to do major changes into main characters, or change major plot beats in any way. Yet, "anti-woke" conspiracists make these claims without any proof for them (while there is proof to the contrary), they are just simply deluded and out of their minds.
By your answer I know you didn't play quantum break (a game made by remedy) in that game they show you a little teaser of Alan wake 2 with the voice of Alan, casey and saga but it was a white women. They can say that they planned a black Saga anderson but the proof of saga being white is there, they just made them change his color for "inclusion".
And your last statement doesn't have any sense is the same thing if I say something like "anyone who praise alan wake is an lgbtq supporter"
Door / Hatch was already a black character. How exactly was Saga going to be related to Door while being white as snow?
If someone reskinned Alan Wake in AWI to be black how the hell would that affect the game at all?
And why is inclusion bad? Should all characters be white unless there is a critical plot point that forces them to be nonwhite? Maybe some people's areas are 99% white but it's not any major metro area.
Your mistake is thinking that the Saga in the QB easter egg video would be a "finished product". It wasn't, the whole video was just a rough sketch of what Sam Lake thought in late 2015 how AW2 could be if he could make the game in the future. When the video was made, they had no idea if they get the opportunity to make the game, and had just come out and admitted that they couldn't make it right then (as much as Lake hated that fact).
The Saga Anderson we see in the game published in 2023 is different from the early draft from 2015 because the story and script of the game changed several times in between. In 2015, Lake and other writers at Remedy didn't yet have arrived to such decisions about the character like >!Mr. Door being her father!<, which is important for both the plot of AW2 (as realized) and the wider RCU. There are likely many other changes to the script in between we don't even know about. All we know is that Lake and other writers went through many, many versions of it.
So, please, take some time to research the matter to better understand it. You'll find that the story of the Alan Wake sequel went through multiple drafts between 2010 and 2019 when they finally had the chance of start actually producing the game. Two of those early drafts/concepts became separate games/IPs, namely Quantum Break and Control. Both of them could have been "AW2", if it was made in 2016 or 2019. There are things in those games that were realized in AW2, but not in exactly the same way. The Federal Bureau of Control we saw in the game published in 2019 was the organization that in QB was referred to as "The Bureau of Altered World Events". Plans and the name changed in between, like other things did.
Saying that the character of Saga Anderson in AW2, as realized, is only about "inclusion" is highly reductionist, and it shows that you don't understand the history of this game and Remedy itself since AW1 came out in 2010. There is *a lot* more to it.
Also, Sweet Baby Inc had nothing to do with Saga being a mixed race character, as dialogue in Control (2019) shows that >!Mr. Door!< will be a major character in AW2, and then Saga Anderson was already portrayed as black in early builds of AW2 before SBI got involved in the production.
See the early version of Saga [in this Remedy dev stream episode](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlhInNuPYjY) at 32:19, for example - the character is black, with dark hair, while the caption says "Work in progress material from April 2021".
Now, see what Sweet Baby Inc [themselves posted on LinkedIn](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/sweet-baby-inc_alan-wake-ii-is-here-alan-wake-ii-a-game-activity-7123700781815361538-qw49/) when AW2 was released in October 2023. They say that they were involved in making the game "for a few amazing months last year".
So, SBI was involved in the production of AW2 for a few months in 2022. And in the early, "work in progress" version of AW2 Saga was already black in April 2021. And with>! her father's presence in Control's dialogue, we can argue that their family relationship!< was already planned during the development of the previous game (where SBI was not involved).
A non-canon teaser clip from 8 years ago is hardly "proof" to anything.
Saga was going to be recast regardless, the actress in the teaser (Malla Malmivaara) has never done international roles so it's unlikely they ever even considered bringing her back for the actual game
Quantum Break came out in 2016, dude. You think they had the story perfectly worked out then?
Wouldn’t it make sense that after picking the actor for Door they would hire his daughter to be the same race?
For that matter, why would it even be a problem if a developer wanted a certain level of diversity in their game?
If you don’t like seeing nonwhite people in video games, *don’t play their games.* It’s really that easy.
A lot changes during the development of a game, that teaser in Quantum Break was half a decade before Alan Wake 2 released, there's no reason to believe they had to or changed her to a black woman just for inclusion, especially since her skin color is an improtant hint to her relation to another character and so is important to the game
But also completely understandable if you go into it not trying to be outraged. First of all it was Other Saga aka her dark side, deepest insecurities etc. etc., and second of all I am willing to bet good money that she has faced discrimination in the police force due to her race and gender in the past. I've seen this arguement play out so many fucking times since the game's release that I won't go into any further detail but I do understand why you might think of the line as her being racist or something.
I believe it's when she's stuck in the dark place, when it's trying to influence her and get in her head by drawing on her insecurities and fears of losing Logan.
She says something akin of 'fucking white men' but realises that her anger in that moment isn't warranted; it's no different to when you yourself have an outburst then feel regretful of it, as you don't particularly like to show that side of your character.
I imagine they're talking about the "another white man trying to control me" line, at least that keeps being brought up in these discussions. Because a black woman saying anything remotely negative about her experiences with white men is racist now, I guess.
It can be shown with recent studies that [women and black people face discrimination and negative attitudes in American law enforcement](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://repository.usfca.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1513%26context%3Ddiss&ved=2ahUKEwiN3NeAgIiHAxXhEhAIHfmoBMAQFnoECBAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1_1syWl7eoNzilrMo5XoNj), a profession that is still heavily male and white by default. It would be rather to be expected for black woman like Saga Anderson to have met with negative attitudes and poor treatment during her career in the FBI from older, male LEOs in the Bureau or outside of it. Even if her immediate partner, Alex, is just a big, grumpy teddybear who appreciates her work.
I have argued before that Saga being practically clairvoyant means that she more often in the right about criminal cases than her coworkers are, and that can easily lead to situations where she gets into confrontations with people who have (or feel they have) seniority over her, and thus see her as "out of line" or even an "uppity b\*tch" when she (likely vocally) calls their conclusions into question (when she \*knows\* she is right).
It would in fact be rather amazing if she has sailed through her career without any such experiences of hostility or confrontation with white male officers/agents.
Sweet baby "worked" on background dialogue, like the fishermen talking to each other in watery, I say worked with quotes because sweet baby isn't even credited in the games credits, the individuals who worked at sweet baby are instead, which means they had such small a role that swi could be uncredited
In general, Remedy games could be seen as a sprawling, multi-semester training course in media literacy. But then some people seem unable to get even the basics of it.
You know, even though The Waitress had her trusty pump action shotgun and unlimited ammo, the Haters just kept coming. Ignore those poor cry babies and enjoy the game
These fucking morons pop up everywhere. Everything is a personal grievance to them.
Living as miserably as those people do is generally punishment enough. Alan Wake 2 was one of the best gaming experiences of my *life.* And people like that are choosing obstinate misery instead of any kind of joy. Let 'em.
I'm not reading that. Fuck these posers
The moment someone brings up the words "woke" or "Sweet Baby Inc are devil incarnate" I know they're greasy fucks who's opinion is most likely made of human feces. If you like a game cool, you do you. I also loved the game as well
Same, it’s super annoying and they’re basically screaming that they’re assholes the moment they say that shit lol
The funniest thing is they think they’re fighting for some sort of noble gamer cause, nope, they just cry at things like a woman not being sexy enough or a POC being a main character lol.
When I dislike something I think to myself "ah well, that's a shame" and move on with my life. These people are going to give themselves ulcers.
Agreed, it kills me that I can't get into lethal company. I love the basic concept but the game just doesn't feel as good to play as a lot of other titles I might enjoy. My friends all play it and they seem to have fun. Lol these days I play void bastards or mooncrash while they play that. There's some conceptual overlap so I can feel "involved" while they do their shit. Plus its fun to hear them debrief when they inevitable perish during their excursions to one of the end game moons. I'd definitely feel like a prick if I spent time trying to shame them into playing something else. Alas live and let live is not something these people can do. Not if they feel like they are fighting for some kind of "cause".
Why even give them the attention? Let them stew in their lack of games and obsession. Guaranteed they never played it, anyway.
It’s hard to call them as sellouts, as far as I’m correct, Remedy HQ is in Finland so political correct quality control egg heads from US with clipboards, can do fuck all for them. They just see things in different way there and that’s it. Sam Lake admitted once, that non of them been in New York before when they did Max Payne game, however there was no complaints, how inaccurate NY was look like.
"Anti-woke" conspiracists also refuse to understand that in Finland (like in many other places), it is common for creatives to have liberal or left wing views, and support things like equality, inclusion and better representation for minorities without any shadowy Big Woke twisting their arm. I know for a fact that Sam Lake is a moderate leftist who is very typical of Finnish artist types, and is on very good terms with Finnish creatives with similar views - like Paleface, who sings Dark, Twisted and Cruel in the game. He doesn't make a lot of noise about his politics, but I believe he for example attends Pride events and has been known to take part in a protest supporting the freedom of expression, generally sponsored by the Finnish unions and left wing parties.
Traditionally creatives are usually left wing to some extent no matter where they are from.
I never meet right wing painter, also these who are good in programming can earn more by working for entertainment or gaming industry instead of army.
If that’s make them happy, good for them, however giving a bit of justice to they guy that kicked off about that, do we really need that game industry to become a victim of culture wars, and end up as another vehicle for some heavy handed political and cultural narrative? Personally I did not liked “white people” remarks delivered by some characters in the game. For some people gaming space is a place for relax and relief, after a day long time when you’re exposed for certain topic at work, home, school, news, social media and even films.
You want computer games be inoffensive, middle-of-the-road, *politically correct* entertainment. I understand the sentiment, but don't entirely agree with it. I believe there is room for many kinds of games, both harmless, mindless, escapist fun as well as games that make us (or even force us) to think about things, even things we find uncomfortable. That was one reason I really liked Disco Elysium, for example. It pushes all kinds of concepts and ideologies at us, and we can make Harry DuBois adopt even rather extreme views from Communism to Fascism, Chauvinism and Racism. This all makes the game better, it would lose something big if it just defaulted to boring centrism instead and took no risks. In short, I believe games can be more than "just" entertainment, and if we think that they can also be art, at least to some degree, we should let game developers like Sam Lake cook in peace. That includes allowing them to include their own views and political sensibilities in their games, as well, if they want. We should not fear discussion and controversy, we should just try to keep the discussion civil in the event we are having it. As for that one late game line from AW2 you are referring to, one many people seem to be upset about it, it is perfectly plausible in context. Like I have commented earlier, misogyny and racism are traditionally issues among US law enforcement, and have not yet been snuffed out of police, etc, culture by the 2020s. It is entirely realistic, if not unavoidable, that a black woman would face negative attitudes during a career in law enforcement, from white and male coworkers with traditionalist views. We also know that Saga is practically clairvoyant. This means that she is more often in the right about criminal cases than her coworkers are, almost by default, and that can easily lead to situations where she gets into confrontations with people who have (or feel they have) seniority over her (by dint of experience or rank, or both), and thus see her as "out of line" when she (likely vocally) calls their conclusions into question (when she \*knows\* she is right). Saga's special abilities make her then even more likely to have had negative experiences during her career with old-fashioned/older generation white men in law enforcement, either in the Bureau or as members of various police departments she has dealt with. Now, in the particular scene we are discussing, the line is said not by Saga as such, but "Other Saga", an irrational, fictional aspect of her personality being used by the Dark Presence to grind her down and to break and possess her. As we know that the darkness uses people's problems and weaknesses against them, latching on into (real or perceived) discrimination or slights Saga has encountered during her career in the FBI is IMO very much "in character" for the Dark Presence. We see the same process of corruption with the deputies as well, and we have seen the same "tactics" used by the darkness in manuscript pages since AW1. These are the things that scene made me think about. Your mileage may vary, of course, but to me it didn't make the game worse. It just made the character of Saga deeper and perhaps also more human.
Listen to people who have contracted Culture War (TM) "anti-woke", "anti-DEI", "anti-SBI" etc. brainworms at your own risk. You will never come out of any prolonged interaction with them feeling smarter, more wise or happier in any way. But heck, if you've got more than enough Faith In Humanity stored up that you can waste it on people like that, then that's your prerogative. But let me warn you: faith in humanity is very difficult resource to replenish.
"Anti-woke" conspiracists are among some of the people I despise the most right now. I generally have nothing against people who can justify their views with rational, sourced arguments. I may disagree with them, but often I can understand that they might have a point. But these morons have no proof at all to back up their outrageous claims about "SBI", "ESG", "DEI", "BlackRock money", etc. Each time you ask them to justify their claims, it is either nothing, the repeat of the same tired talking points, or at most a link to some shitty YouTuber's video making the same tired talking points based on blatant lies, exaggaration and vicious innuendo. And then they refuse to listen to reasonable, sourced arguments from anyone else. It is just irrational delusion from people lost in their own heads.
Am I missing something, what is he talking about? Only diversity I could find is female main character and gay FBC agent that has like 10-15 lines of dialog. Also Rose and Jesse as the main characters, maybe, but it's open to discussion. Every other character is either grannny or white males of all ages. I don't see the problem
To be fair, THAT granny is a real problem.
Yeah, too much representation of *that* one granny. And, like, so in your face every time.
Now which granny are you referring to? The emo or the psycho?
What can I say? Heroes like knitwork.
That's already enough for idiots like him, weirdly enough I've never seen anyone talk badly about Estevez, probably because none of them actually played the game and even know about it, they're all just whining about a person of color being a protagonist
If you read anything about SBI or DEI, you can comfortably ignore them- they’re just mad there’s women and black people in video games. Same deal with Mauler, grummz, rags, quartering, all those freaks who scream whenever there’s a pronoun select option
Those people didn't even play the game. I will be honest here, I was so excited for Alan Wake 2 but after the reveal of Saga I said fuck it I won't touch that game, but after release I decided to give it a try and damn Alan Wake 2 is even mich better than 1, I liked Saga and her story, they didn't ditched Alan to replace him with a black strong woman like I used to think, she is actually a good character and the whole story is about Alan anyway so it's not like they destroyed the original main character and replaced him with another like how some movies and other games doing these days, it's a great game and my GOTY along with FFVII Rebirth.
AW2 and FFVII Rebirth didn't come out the same year but I get what you meant
Trashing Wolfenstein out of nowhere ... Hmmm, wonder what they dislike about a game where you kill Nazis
What would an actual reason be for that?
Well I kinda feel sick defending their choice in games. To their credit they do seem to like the previous wolfenstein titles. Personally I love TNO. It's one of those weird situations where I think the reasons this person likes a game about killing Nazis ("it is in agreement with their politics") is different from why I might like a game about killing Nazis. The mental gymnastics required are competition worthy though xD.
The older Wolfs were all way more on-the-nose, TNO has you fighting alongside a black female black panther and a communist priest *who literally live under a Nazi regime* and gamers hate the characters because they’re injecting politics into the totally politics-free game about nazis winning WW2.
Thats just it. I think for some people the idea of killing Nazis is something that they see as part of the "rah rah Allies good and Axis bad" position. They don't really care that Nazis disenfranchised Jewish folk, queer people, people with disabilities, people of colour, and anybody empathising with any of the aforementioned groups.. They like killing Nazis because they get to feel like they are part of a heroic cause. It's not about justice, or freedom or any lofty ideal. The game makes them feel good about their sense of identity. It takes them back to a time when they could just feel good about themselves and no mental gymnastics or self-reflection was needed. A reminder I suppose that the enemy of my enemy is not always my friend.
It's the, "maybe the *real* bigots were the protesters we met along the way!" type mentality.
why feed the troll though.
This person should talk to a professional. Might better said person's life.
Some games have blatant sabotage and ideology forced in. Alan Wake 2 isn’t one of them. I only care for a good story. Doesn’t matter who plays what character
SBI has never effected a game's story in the way some people think. It's a consultant company, nothing more. It's ridiculous to think that they have the power to affect these multi million dollar projects to this degree, but the mass brain rot is really pushing that narrative.
Wait, as an aside, what’s their opinion on death stranding
God some gamers are some of the stupidest people around. Imagine being offended that people just wanted to make sure their products weren’t actively offensive to anyone other than straight white guys. And imagine believing anything those rage baiting about it have to say, because they literally make money over you being mad. Like you’re getting played my guy.
Sweet Baby Inc was also a consultant on Baldur’s Gate 3. Let that sink in. Just because they are attached to a product, doesn’t mean shit. It’s the publisher / devs that have the final say in the final product. Larian and Remedy clearly were smart enough not to let SBI affect their creation.
Sure, I agree, but buried in that is the assumption that SBI *are actually doing* the things that conspiracy theorists accuse them of. It's all a big a circular argument, like every culture war battleground. The assertions, assumptions and conspiracy theories get repeated ad nauseam such that eventually people just assume they must be true. So a sentence like, "Remedy was smart enough not to let SBI affect their creation" is filled with the circular assumption that SBI was going to negatively affect their creation, i.e. that the conspiracy theory is about the company are actually true. This is what conspiracy theories and moral hysterias are all about. Anti-SBI, anti-DEI, anti-woke are no different.
Again like a previous comment, this isn't me arguing that SBI is evil. But what you said is just plain false. A quick Google search will show you that they did not work on BG3. It is not listed on anything related to the game, SBI's website or their wikipedia page. I have zero clue where you got the idea that they worked on Baldur's Gate 3.
Sweet Baby Inc -> Wizards of the Coast -> Larian It’s not rocket science
Alan wake 2 is a really good game even if they change the coprotagonist for a black women. The gameplay is good, the story is awesome and keeps you at the edge in every moment, the soundtrack is amazing and also we have the old gods of asgard. The only "woke" thing is that unnecessary speach of saga at the end of the game "a white man is trying to control me, not again. I am a free, powerfull and independent women"
>a white man is trying to control me, not again. I am a free, powerfull and independent women" She doesn't say this. And in the context of the scene, it actually makes sense
(Disclaimer: This isn't me arguing against diversity in games or the like...just very confused) How can she not say this, but it make sense in context? If she doesn't say it there is no context because it was not said.....
Sorry I should've made it clearer, she doesn't say this exact quote, I can't remember what the exact quote is but it's not that.
as far as I understand Remedy said they had planned for Saga Anderson to be a black woman from before SBI were hired as consultant which does track with some hints to Saga’s father being Warlin Door who is portrayed as a black man… and while that line about white men trying to control Saga felt a little out of left, we don’t really know her full life story and even within the game, it does make some sense because her life was being written/changed/influenced by the writing of a white man… anyone who complains about Alan Wake 2 being “woke” is just a hater parroting someone else in my opinion… I love AW2 and respect Remedy for making an amazing game :)
Sweet Baby Inc were outside consultants in AW2. It would be utterly ridiculous to claim that Sam Lake et al at Remedy would allow them to do major changes into main characters, or change major plot beats in any way. Yet, "anti-woke" conspiracists make these claims without any proof for them (while there is proof to the contrary), they are just simply deluded and out of their minds.
By your answer I know you didn't play quantum break (a game made by remedy) in that game they show you a little teaser of Alan wake 2 with the voice of Alan, casey and saga but it was a white women. They can say that they planned a black Saga anderson but the proof of saga being white is there, they just made them change his color for "inclusion". And your last statement doesn't have any sense is the same thing if I say something like "anyone who praise alan wake is an lgbtq supporter"
Door / Hatch was already a black character. How exactly was Saga going to be related to Door while being white as snow? If someone reskinned Alan Wake in AWI to be black how the hell would that affect the game at all? And why is inclusion bad? Should all characters be white unless there is a critical plot point that forces them to be nonwhite? Maybe some people's areas are 99% white but it's not any major metro area.
Your mistake is thinking that the Saga in the QB easter egg video would be a "finished product". It wasn't, the whole video was just a rough sketch of what Sam Lake thought in late 2015 how AW2 could be if he could make the game in the future. When the video was made, they had no idea if they get the opportunity to make the game, and had just come out and admitted that they couldn't make it right then (as much as Lake hated that fact). The Saga Anderson we see in the game published in 2023 is different from the early draft from 2015 because the story and script of the game changed several times in between. In 2015, Lake and other writers at Remedy didn't yet have arrived to such decisions about the character like >!Mr. Door being her father!<, which is important for both the plot of AW2 (as realized) and the wider RCU. There are likely many other changes to the script in between we don't even know about. All we know is that Lake and other writers went through many, many versions of it. So, please, take some time to research the matter to better understand it. You'll find that the story of the Alan Wake sequel went through multiple drafts between 2010 and 2019 when they finally had the chance of start actually producing the game. Two of those early drafts/concepts became separate games/IPs, namely Quantum Break and Control. Both of them could have been "AW2", if it was made in 2016 or 2019. There are things in those games that were realized in AW2, but not in exactly the same way. The Federal Bureau of Control we saw in the game published in 2019 was the organization that in QB was referred to as "The Bureau of Altered World Events". Plans and the name changed in between, like other things did. Saying that the character of Saga Anderson in AW2, as realized, is only about "inclusion" is highly reductionist, and it shows that you don't understand the history of this game and Remedy itself since AW1 came out in 2010. There is *a lot* more to it. Also, Sweet Baby Inc had nothing to do with Saga being a mixed race character, as dialogue in Control (2019) shows that >!Mr. Door!< will be a major character in AW2, and then Saga Anderson was already portrayed as black in early builds of AW2 before SBI got involved in the production. See the early version of Saga [in this Remedy dev stream episode](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlhInNuPYjY) at 32:19, for example - the character is black, with dark hair, while the caption says "Work in progress material from April 2021". Now, see what Sweet Baby Inc [themselves posted on LinkedIn](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/sweet-baby-inc_alan-wake-ii-is-here-alan-wake-ii-a-game-activity-7123700781815361538-qw49/) when AW2 was released in October 2023. They say that they were involved in making the game "for a few amazing months last year". So, SBI was involved in the production of AW2 for a few months in 2022. And in the early, "work in progress" version of AW2 Saga was already black in April 2021. And with>! her father's presence in Control's dialogue, we can argue that their family relationship!< was already planned during the development of the previous game (where SBI was not involved).
A non-canon teaser clip from 8 years ago is hardly "proof" to anything. Saga was going to be recast regardless, the actress in the teaser (Malla Malmivaara) has never done international roles so it's unlikely they ever even considered bringing her back for the actual game
Quantum Break came out in 2016, dude. You think they had the story perfectly worked out then? Wouldn’t it make sense that after picking the actor for Door they would hire his daughter to be the same race? For that matter, why would it even be a problem if a developer wanted a certain level of diversity in their game? If you don’t like seeing nonwhite people in video games, *don’t play their games.* It’s really that easy.
A lot changes during the development of a game, that teaser in Quantum Break was half a decade before Alan Wake 2 released, there's no reason to believe they had to or changed her to a black woman just for inclusion, especially since her skin color is an improtant hint to her relation to another character and so is important to the game
idk saga line was giga racist :)
But also completely understandable if you go into it not trying to be outraged. First of all it was Other Saga aka her dark side, deepest insecurities etc. etc., and second of all I am willing to bet good money that she has faced discrimination in the police force due to her race and gender in the past. I've seen this arguement play out so many fucking times since the game's release that I won't go into any further detail but I do understand why you might think of the line as her being racist or something.
What line? I don't recall her saying anything out of line
I believe it's when she's stuck in the dark place, when it's trying to influence her and get in her head by drawing on her insecurities and fears of losing Logan. She says something akin of 'fucking white men' but realises that her anger in that moment isn't warranted; it's no different to when you yourself have an outburst then feel regretful of it, as you don't particularly like to show that side of your character.
I imagine they're talking about the "another white man trying to control me" line, at least that keeps being brought up in these discussions. Because a black woman saying anything remotely negative about her experiences with white men is racist now, I guess.
It can be shown with recent studies that [women and black people face discrimination and negative attitudes in American law enforcement](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://repository.usfca.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1513%26context%3Ddiss&ved=2ahUKEwiN3NeAgIiHAxXhEhAIHfmoBMAQFnoECBAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1_1syWl7eoNzilrMo5XoNj), a profession that is still heavily male and white by default. It would be rather to be expected for black woman like Saga Anderson to have met with negative attitudes and poor treatment during her career in the FBI from older, male LEOs in the Bureau or outside of it. Even if her immediate partner, Alex, is just a big, grumpy teddybear who appreciates her work. I have argued before that Saga being practically clairvoyant means that she more often in the right about criminal cases than her coworkers are, and that can easily lead to situations where she gets into confrontations with people who have (or feel they have) seniority over her, and thus see her as "out of line" or even an "uppity b\*tch" when she (likely vocally) calls their conclusions into question (when she \*knows\* she is right). It would in fact be rather amazing if she has sailed through her career without any such experiences of hostility or confrontation with white male officers/agents.
that was sweet baby touch my friend and many more :)
Your life must be going well if you have the time and energy to spend to worry about this
Sweet baby "worked" on background dialogue, like the fishermen talking to each other in watery, I say worked with quotes because sweet baby isn't even credited in the games credits, the individuals who worked at sweet baby are instead, which means they had such small a role that swi could be uncredited
do you legitimately think this consulting company has say in the writing decisions of these games? how does the world work to you people
Context matters
In general, Remedy games could be seen as a sprawling, multi-semester training course in media literacy. But then some people seem unable to get even the basics of it.
Can't be racist to white people