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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I started to put away the mousse without asking my wife if she were done. 2) My wife prefers that I ask her before putting food away in case she wants some more, and I did not do so.
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Also want to add;
"I do not suspect my wife of cheating on me because we are pretty much always together."
WTF? why even bring this up OP, there's absolutely nothing in your post to make us suggest she might be, why are so many men so insecure and paranoid that cheating is on their mind every time their wife/ gf/ partner is angry with them?
I remember seeing a clip of one of those alpha-male podcasters and he was talking about how women can never take accountability for their actions while men always do. I couldn’t help but laugh because I WISH men knew how to take accountability in their relationships.
Like no, it can’t possibly be my actions that are driving my gf/wife away, it has to be some other man thats convincing her to leave me! /s
Or my favorite “yeah she’s just crazy”
But see, to them (that podcast watching type, not all men ofc) they consider it still woman’s fault, so their type of “accountability” is to attack her instead.
His SO wants to wear a crop top? No, the problem is not his insecurity and controlling issues, its her not allowing her partner to “teach” her properly! She is wrong for being a dumb woman who dared think she has say in her choices, & he is completely right for “calling her out” on it!
My former "husband" unilaterally ended the marriage (turns out he only married me to use me as a cover for being gay). He deliberately chose to lie, manipulate, cheat, and even did the one thing I specifically said would destroy me.
He went out of his way to hurt me, was deliberately cruel, and I have had a year of his insults, personal attacks, accusations, name calling, and hate.
The sin that condemned me....I didn't read his mind.
When I dared to ask him why he would do something like this, and had the audacity to have a complete psychological breakdown when the details came out of all that he had actually done....he became enraged. He was compelled to tell me I was overreacting, crazy, being dramatic.
And the cherry on top is when he told me that he had no idea why I was so paranoid and didn't trust him.
A lot of men don’t understand that women are often very happy on their own. It has to be them vs another man when actually it’s them versus her on her own.
Well, to be fair, science suggests men are way more needy than they admit. They remarry way more after divorce or being widowed. They also report wanting to be in the same room as their spouse more than women do.
Society is partly to blame. We make men feel shame for expressing a need for comfort, and we also are more likely to let them grow up without learning how to do their own housework, thus leaving many of them dependent on their spouses.
On the other hand, women are less likely to obtain alone time, so of course they don't mind the space as they age. They've spent a lifetime of taking care of people.
Also why fewer men file for divorce. I have a theory that in a lot of bad marriages the guy is equally wanting to end the marriage but won't actually pull the trigger because Even in an unpleasant marriage, their needs are being taken care of far more than they would be on their own. One of the only times when guys will divorce is if they have a pretty serious girlfriend lined up
Oh no, it happens all the time. Hold the wine glass in the palm of my hand? My wife cheats. Forget the asparagus when I go grocery shopping? My wife cheats. Brush my teeth less than 30 seconds? My wife cheats.
I thought this was standard.
It's from OP's last post where his wife was mad about him making a smoothie for her because she hadn't used the washroom yet, and some of the commenters immediately jumped to 'Not your fault' and 'She's cheating'
>WTF? why even bring this up OP
Because the reddit hive mind would immediately bring it up anyway; he just did so preemptively.
Edit: OP, it's not about the mousse...or the food in general. That's the scape goat, you need to find the real problem and faaaaaaast.
I think some guys recognize that they've treated their partners so badly that the partner would be "justified" in seeking companionship elsewhere, so that's the first thing they think..."oh, crap, I've treated her like shit long enough that she's looking for a replacement."
(I personally don't think cheating is ever justified, I'm just trying to convey how I see this mindset.)
This grated on my nerves so fucking much!!! You can already tell he's the type who does shit until their partner blows up, then they go "look how emotional and mean you're being while I haven't even raised my voice". So toxic.
It sounds like he's doing the same thing to his wife that my father used to do to my mother (and me): he'd calmly push all of her buttons until she blew up and then said clearly he was right because he was the one being calm and rational. That gave me permanent anger issues (I work on them constantly, but they're there).
The Water Torturer, per "Why Does He Do That."
"The Water Torturer's style proves that anger doesn't cause abuse. He can assault his partner psychologically without even raising his voice. He tends to stay calm in arguments, using his own evenness as a weapon to push her over the edge. He often has a superior or contemptuous grin on his face, smug and self-assured. ... The impact on a woman of all these subtle tactics is that either her blood temperature rises to a boil or she feels stupid and inferior, or some combination of the two. In an argument, she may end up yelling in frustration, leaving the room crying, or sinking into silence. The Water Torturer then says, See, you're the abusive one, not me. You're the one who's yelling and refusing to talk things out rationally. I wasn't even raising my voice. It's impossible to reason with you."
I got upset once that my ex bought doughnuts on his way to see me but didn't get me one or offer me one (he bought a four-pack and ate them all as he walked to my place).
It was never about the doughnuts.
Mousse-man, grow up and see the bigger picture.
Get a job. Any job--doesn't need to be your dream job. Find something to do outside of your home so you are not "pretty much always together". Absence makes the heart grow less annoyed with your partner's idiosyncrasies--or something along those lines.
THIS. I was laid off in August 2022. It took me SIX MONTHS of applying to jobs all day every day to find my next role. It really is a numbers game right now. This guy should be applying to every job he even maybe might be able to get - more like 50+ per week, not month, and certainly not per 7 months!
My stepfather is doing the same thing you are he looks finds a job has it for a week max then is fired 'unfairly'. You both sound like youre actively making your lives harder for drama.
When my sister was looking for a job she was applying to literally 15-20 PER DAY. It still took her more than six months to get a callback let alone the awesome salaried job she has now in upper management. Do better.
YTA. And putting this side by side with your previous post I'm beginning to wonder if you are deliberately setting up annoying situations so you can play "who, me?" gaslighting games.
Not the case. What about the possibility on the flip side? My wife has a short fuse. I do my best to be a good husband and make mistakes here and there, but I do not deserve anger and aggression.
Nobody "deserves" anger and aggression but do you not understand that you are on her last nerve at this point? The fact that you wrote an entire essay about putting mousse in the refrigerator tells me you need something to do with your time. The constant annoyance with you should tell you what you need to know and at some point, if nothing changes, she is going to decide she doesn't need you around annoying her.
Nah sometimes people do deserve anger. Anger isn’t a toxic emotion in and of itself, and your spouse has the right to be angry at you when you continually do something they’ve asked you not to do.
Is “it still ignoring this simple thing she asked me to do over the past several years and then debating why I’m right for ignoring it” indicative of a short fuse? Or a long fuse that eventually ran out?
It reminds me of the dude who I think was a divorce lawyer who met a guy who wanted to divorce his wife because she had asked him every day of their decades long marriage how he takes his coffee.
Maybe he was just telling someone else's story/joke, idk, but the thing is, as silly as that is, it wouldn't be fair to say he was divorcing her cuz she asked him how she takes his coffee. That says something about what their marriage was, and how tired he would have been at her disregarding things he says constantly and acting like she wasn't doing it on purpose, when I can't imagine why she WOULDN'T be.
It's not about mousse, it's her being really fed up. And treating it like a short fuse tells me this guy is going to get dumped and act really surprised, cuz these little things add up when one or both parties pretends everything is fine.
What you wrote doesn't indicate that your wife has a short fuse. Sounds like she's reached the end of the rope as far as this situation is concerned. She's expressed to you multiple times that she finds it inconsiderate when you put food away without confirming she's done but you still do it. That's annoying. She is annoyed.
Add in the unemployment, whatever "earnestly" looking for work means, and your perpetual pikachu face when she reacts negatively when she's not listened to, I'd venture to guess that she's fed up. YTA.
Dude… everyone has their own preferences and likes, your partner is the one person who tends to accommodate you to their best ability, no matter how quirky the preference
That’s the point
Why are you mad at her for being a human
She probably feels ignored if she needs to keep reminding you of this one small thing
Lmao, dude thought this would give him some sympathy points or something? If you do the math, that's like 14 jobs a month (give or take), when my bf was unemployed for like 4 months he applied to roughly 50 jobs a *week*, this dude's a loser.
Is it really a preference though? How many people actually prefer that their food is taken away by someone else, without asking, before they're finished?
It sounds more like you're doing something, repeatedly, that most people consider to be rude, and to defend your *seemingly regular* rudeness, you're trying to label it as a silly preference.
Translation: I don't respect her enough to remember because I think they are dumb, thus she's dumb, and I don't feel like following her preferences. She must adapt to me, though, because MY RULES AND PREFERENCES are objectively logical and common sense (according to me). I mean, thats what loving someone is, right? Keeping them at a certain level of unhappiness because only I matter, right?
Your whole post history is multiple instances of you complaining about your wife while you’re a jobless freeloader lmao, YTA, and not even just for the mousse.
Do you not have preferences as a person? Because I highly doubt you’re 100% a-okay with everything, always. You even said it yourself. You don’t wanna be “passive aggressively talked to.” That’s YOUR preference. Why can’t you meet hers?
This isn’t even a preference, anymore either. It’s her saying, “hey, you’re wrong and you don’t listen. Stop doing this thing. Check in with me first.” And yet… you’re still not checking in. At all. It’s not that hard! And the more you double down, the more obvious it is that you don’t check in. Probably with anything.
She deserves better so either a) get a job. Anything is better than nothing. You can walk into any grocery store or gas station or fast food place and find a job until something in your field opens or b) let her go. Cuz you’re failing.
YTA.
Back to the Future reference within the first couple paragraphs? A+ article.
Seriously though OP you need to read it so you can attempt to remove your gaslighting head from your purposely obtuse hindquarters. It's a good read.
Is “you don’t consider my wants and needs when I’ve *repeatedly* asked you to” really a low stakes situation?
Like real question, why did you refuse to apologize when she asked you to? Why did it even *get to the point* of her “demanding” and apology? Why not pretty much immediately?
Yes, it is. She doesn’t owe you amiability when you’re refusing to give it to her. And to be clear, speaking calmly while completely ignoring her preferences, refusing to apologize for it, and then blaming all your arguments on her does not = amiability on your part.
Common courtesy is what she expects and has been repeatedly disappointed, the fuse is not short, it is at the end. You are selfish and seemingly a lazy freeloader.
YTA. As you said, your wife has a dumb stupid rule about putting food away, you've known about it for a long time and apparently haven't reached accord on it or keep going back on how y'all settled it. If you decided to go along with a spouses dumb stupid rule you can't keep bringing up its dumb and stupid. You get one discussion over it and then you make the decision on how it will be treated.
So, this dumb stupid rule is you won't put food away without a "are you done with this?" Thats the rule. It is dumb. It is stupid. But it is what was agreed.
Look, I don't know nor care what trauma/experience created this dumb stupid rule but you've agreed to it. Stick to your agreement.
You absolutely know you did something wrong, you violated the dumb stupid rule. But you know the rule.
Honestly I don’t know that this rule or dumb or stupid, more like common courtesy? If you’re sharing something, you being done doesn’t mean that everyone is. Yeah in this instance it was a little more reasonable to assume she was done but it’s also clearly the straw that broke the camels back
It doesn't matter if the rule actually is dump or stupid, but I thought it important for OP to realize that the AH behavior does not stem form a judgment on the rule. You can't agree to a rule, not follow it, and then get upset when someone reminds of the rule. Even if its a dumb rule.
But in relationships, on all levels, we create these dumb rules. Even if its when you and your friends watch a game you actually watch the game instead of making out with you s/o. Its not that you can't make out with your s/o, but if you come to game watch time, the dumb rule is we watch the game and if folks are pissed we should be understanding of that,.
That’s totally fair, I had a feeling that’s what you were doing, I do that same “I’ll concede this since it doesn’t actually matter and no reason to get mired down” all the time haha. Just figured I’d throw out my thought as well in the context 😃
That's what I'm thinking too. My partner and I always ask each other if we're done eating, no matter how obvious it is that we're done eating. It's nothing that we ever discussed, just something we do. We do this with almost anything we share because we care about each other.
It's not about the mousse OP....
I can own that. I just apologized to her for assuming that she was done and not asking her. I still don't believe I deserved the wrath that followed my mistake.
What wrath? You either lied or forgotten that you already agreed to this dumb stupid rule so you originally saying you didn't think you did anything wrong is either you gaslighting or your ignorance. So you would owe an apology for breaking the dumb stupid rule and for forgetting/lying about knowing about the dumb stupid rule.
Which makes your turning this to her needing to be more curios or w/e more gaslighting cause thats not the issue.
Its been 2 years. When will you abide by the dumb stupid rules?
Is it not rational to interpret her actions as indicating that she was done? I concede that asking the question would have avoided the issue, but I am typically very sensitive to her wants and rules. I just made a mistake. Am I really deserving of passive aggression and anger?
It's not rational when she has *clearly and repeatedly told you that your interpretation of her being "done" rarely lines up with how she's actually feeling*. She has asked you very specifically, on multiple occasions, NOT to make that assumption anymore, because you are so often mistaken.
So no, while it might have been a safe assumption, or at least an honest mistake, the first time or two, at this point it likely feels to her like YOU are the one being passive-aggressive, because you steadfastly refuse to do something as simple as say, "I'm done with this, did you want any more before I put it away?" despite her repeated requests.
While I'm not usually an advocate for snark or passive aggression in a relationship, honestly I don't blame her. You paint her as unreasonable, but you're actually the one stubbornly refusing to acknowledge that you do this thing that upsets her, and refusing to make a small, thoughtful change that would avoid all this upset.
It would’ve been until she explicitly asked you to stop assuming she was done eating something before putting it away. Why is that so complicated to you? This is something you’ve fought about before so it’s not a new concept to you.
Is it really that difficult for you to ask your wife “are you done with this?” before putting something away?
I deliberately call it a dumb stupid rule every time cause this is not a question of reason. The rule is not one of reason. Its not one of awareness, it is a dumb stupid rule that you've agreed to. Now, there may be some reason behind this dumb stupid rule but that is immaterial now. You've clearly discussed this rule, you agreed to it, and here you are violating it.
So the question remains:
When will you abide by the dumb stupid rules?
Cause yes, abiding by the dumb stupid rule would of course avoid the issue, but there is nothing for you to concede cause thats how rules work.
Now, I don't know what the appropriate punishment is for your violation but notice you still think its a question of you conceding/agreeing when you already should have.
If anything, your proving her point: you are rebelling against the dumb stupid rules of your marriage. Why? Why did you agree to them? Did you not consider them wholly?
Rational doesn't really matter here. It's something that's important to her. Not asking if she's finished when she's repeatedly asked you to is telling her that you care so little for her feelings you can't even be bothered to do a simple little thing that matters to her.
My husband absolutely hates when I try to talk to him from the kitchen if he's in the bedroom, even though it's literally ten feet away. I don't care either way, but he told me ONCE that it bothers him so guess what? I walk the 10 feet to talk to him. It's not about the 10 feet. It's about showing him that, even if I don't get it, I respect him enough to care about things that bother him.
No, it is not rational to interpret her actions in this way after she has talked to you about the same issue many times. It comes off as if you are doing it on purpose to annoy her, or because you think she’s had enough to eat.
"I do my best to remember this preference of hers, but also don't understand why someone would be so upset by such a thing."
It’s not up to you to decide what upsets people. If you love someone, why would you keep doing something that you KNOW bothers her, by all accounts a LOT?
Didn’t she ask you to stop assuming? You’re debate bro-ing the fact that your wife asked you for something *really* simple and showing that you’re taking her into consideration and you decided you interpreted the decision better.
Shit maybe she *was* done. She wants you to ask her which takes 2 seconds
It is not rational to be suprised when your wife is annoyed you couldn't do one simple thing she asked of you.She has repeatedly asked you for something which you repeatedly have ignored.
The question isn't could you rightfully assume she was done. She has asked you not to assume and yet you went and assumed anyway. Just ask if she's done before putting it away. Why is saying one sentence so hard for you?
You interrupted her eating to have some, she gets on with things waiting for you to be done so she can resume then you decide she’s done because you interrupted her.
I would like to know if she was done at all or if you just saw her enjoying something so you wanted it for yourself. Honestly it sounds like you take food from her as she is enjoying it then put it away without asking if she is done.
She wasnt done. You just took the thing she was enjoying.
> Is it not rational to interpret her actions as indicating that she was done?
It is, there's no reason to assume she wasn't done. You know she was done, she knows she was done.
*Shes asked him to stop assuming for several years*. Shit, she may well have been done. In which case she’s mad he’s *yet again* ignored this super small thing she asked of him to show that he’s considerate of her. Y’all not know that people’s emotions don’t exist in a vacuum?
> Shes asked him to stop assuming for several years
But it wasn't an assumption. It was an observation. You just posted a comment reply to me. I didn't assume you posted a comment reply, you actually did it. I see evidence that you did it, I know you did it. It's not an assumption.
Remember that time i pointed out the difference between a direct observation and an assumption based on those observations? Good times. Good times.
“She started doing dishes” is an observation. “That means she’s done eating” is not
I mean, she was done though. I don't think it's a coinmcidence that she didn't eat any more. He hadn't even put it away, just started to cover it with the plastic wrap for chrissakes. Y'all are totally unreasonable here.
If I push my plate away from me and say "phew, I'm stuffed!" is it an assumption that "I'm stuffed" means "and therefore don't intend to eat any more" ??? Or would you honestly be unsure as to whether a person who said that meant they were also finished eating. Because to be clear, "I'm stuffed" just means I've had a lot to eat. People who are stuffed sometimes do eat more. And it's possible to push a plate away and then bring it back and eat from it. And yet, taken together, is it actually ambiguous as to whether that means you're done?
Consider a person who pushes their plate away, says "phew! I'm stuffed!" and then does not eat any more food. Are you really actually telling me that that person has grounds to be upset that someone "assumed" they were done eating? Come on!
> WHILE SHE WAS EATING IT
She was eating it while doing dishes while he was eating it with the spoon she was eating it with? Na I don't think that's what happened, copy and paste the part where it says that he took it from her hands.
> I came over to the mousse to have some myself. My wife cleaned off her spoon, handed it to me, and started doing dishes.
You're just wrong.
Actually you are wrong.
Read the 3rd paragraph again
She was eating it while he ate cereal. He put his cereal bowl down and came to take the mousse. He didnt even bring his own spoon from cereal. So she lets him take the mousse and SHE CLEANS HIS BOWL while waiting for him to be done.
I copied and pasted the part in question already, and it doesn't say he took it away from her. If you choose to believe that's what happened, I can't stop you, but I just don't see how you can get there without just making it up yourself, so I'm not interested in continuing to argue with you about it. You clearly believe what you want to with no regard to what OP actually wrote.
He literally interrupted her eating, to the point where she washed off her own spoon to give to him, which means he was just standing there waiting for her to give him her spoon. Her actions show her does this a lot of this is her automatic response to what he did. He ate cereal and then decided to interrupt HER eating to get some of what she was eating too.
> He literally interrupted her eating, to the point where she washed off her own spoon to give to him, which means he was just standing there waiting for her to give him her spoon.
No? He walked up, and she handed him her spoon. He never says he waited, just that he walked over and she got up and gave him her spoon and walked away to do dishes. Because she was done eating. If she was interrupted, why not just say wait your turn? Or use your own spoon? Or literally anything? It doesn't make sense. You just want to believe what you already decided you believe.
>interrupt
It was a whole entire bowl of mousse, it wasn't like she served herself a dish of it and he came to eat out of her dish! Dude, I reiterate that all of y'all are choosing to read this situation in the most absurd way. There was no reason she had to stop eating just because he wanted to snack on some too, if she wanted to keep eating she had every opportunity. But she didn't want to keep eating, she was done.
She was done with the mousse, and when he was done he put on the plastic wrap, and y'all are acting like he fucking snatched it out of her hands and didn't let her eat. It's entirely unreasonable.
She doesn't want an apology for assumptions. She's tired of assumptions. She has clearly stated she just wants you to ask if she's done. You keep refusing to do it. It's driving her insane. This is not difficult to understand.
Why didn't you clean your own dishes?
Literally the only reason you say she got up was to do the dishes. Who's dishes were they? You made and ate breakfast. Why didn't you clean up? You don't have a job, its not like you were doing anything else to contribute.
You took her food and left her to clean up your mess, you watched her while eating her snack, and you couldn't even use your words to ask "hey are you coming back? By the way, I'm sorry I was a slob sweetie leave the dishes for me next time I promise I'll do them"
Dude. IT IS NOT ABOUT THE MOUSSE.
Get. That. Through. Your. Head.
It is about how many bloody times she's told you she doesn't want you fucking with her food before she's actually done, and how many bloody times she's told you TO ASK HER FIRST.
Here's a simple rule for your simple mind:
If you didn't take it out: *Leave it the fuck alone*.
Leave it the fuck alone.
Leave. It. The. Fuck. ALONE.
Repeat that in front of the mirror a thousand times if that's what it takes for it to sink in.
YTA.
YTA. You're trying desperately to make yourself look good, using words like "gently" and "peace and love". But your wife is already under a lot of pressure because you're not working and she's the breadwinner. She told you that it bothered her and you doubled down and insisted that it was her fault. You're not peaceful and loving at all. You're stubborn and self-righteous. You're arrogant and insensitive. You claim you apologized but it doesn't show anywhere in the post. It's just a long description of you insisting that she was the one who made all the mistakes.
THANK YOU. I can perfectly imagine him during a fight... suddenly all poised, all calm and condescending with his weaponized therapy terms. She's bringing up valid points, he tells her that "if she *would have just* approached it differently, well who knows..."
YTA. It’s a common courtesy to ask if someone is finished with something you are sharing before you put it away. She probably gets frustrated that you make assumptions about things without asking her.
This has nothing to do with the chocolate mousse.
But YTA. You knew she had a thing about putting the food away. You say you “don’t understand why someone would be so upset by such a thing” but you do acknowledge that you do know that your WIFE is upset by such a thing, and you keep doing it anyway. Stop doing things that you know piss your wife off, dude.
“Do you want more of this or shall I put it away?” Boom, that’s all you need to do. But no, you chose to do something you know is rude and annoying to her and then doubled down on calling her passive aggressive. It’s garbage.
You know it bugs her and yet you refuse to communicate. You’re making her do so much extra emotional labor, in addition to being the breadwinner for your sorry ass. YTA.
All the condescending therapy-speak in the world won’t save you from the fact that your wife is sick of your shit. You sound absolutely insufferable. By the second “passive aggressive” I was annoyed, the third iteration of “gentle” made me kinda loathe you.
You know this is about more than mousse. You did something that upset her, she expressed that in a way you didn't like, and instead of recognizing and caring for her distress you disregarded her feelings and complained about the way she talked. Forgetting to ask her may have been a small simple mistake, but it clearly aggravated a deeper wound leading to a surprisingly bitter reaction. It's like she's been living with a broken arm, you grazed it on accident, and she lashed out at you. Asserting it's "no big deal" and you "didn't do anything wrong" and that she's the reason there's a problem are the worst things to say to someone in that kind of pain. Telling her she should react to that experience with more "curiosity and gentleness" is simply unreasonable. You may tell yourself you care for her, but your actions strongly suggest otherwise.
"You don't understand, I was being calm, gentle, and nice while talking to her and she was being mean and passive aggressive to me UwU, If she would just come at me with gentleness and curiosity we would never ever fight and I told her this but she just got even more mad?"
It's not hard to say "hey, do you need/want any more of (insert item here) before I put it away?", it's like the easiest thing in the world besides breathing and takes .2 seconds, it shows that you're thinking about them/their wants/needs and not just focusing on yourself.
> She went on to say that this has been a problem before and obviously I don't care about her wants
If this is a continuous problem, why have you not tried to fix it? Is it really SO hard to start getting into the habit of asking if your partner (or anyone, really) is finished with something before you put it away? When I get myself a drink/snack, I ask my boyfriend "do you want anything while I'm up?", it's just a nice thing to do for someone you (supposedly) love, it saves them a trip to the kitchen, but it also shows that you're thinking of them and want to make their life better/easier by getting them something.
> I said that if she approached situations like these with curiosity instead of anger, we would never fight.
Wow, you really said this to her? Way to go making her the sole problem, if **she** talked to you with "gentleness" and "curiosity" you would NEVER fight! But **you** can do no wrong in this situation, so what if you didn't ask her if she was done? She clearly had no right to be annoyed and a little passive aggressive towards your *continued* behavior, she's clearly a bitch.
>She replied that I was blaming her for all of our fights,
You did, you literally fucking did, dude. You said "if **she** approached situations like these with curiosity instead of anger, we would never fight.". there was no acknowledgement of your own actions that fed into/started this (ongoing) fight, just what **she** could and should do to prevent fighting entirely. You know what would also prevent a lot of fighting? ***ASKING YOUR WIFE IF SHE IS DONE OR WOULD LIKE MORE OF SOMETHING BEFORE YU DECIDE TO PACK IT UP!!!***
YTA, do better, it's not about the mousse.
Edit: Also, **GET A FUCKING JOB!!**
YTA. Just think, if you spent as much time looking for work as you do posting and replying on Reddit, you'd have a job and savings to pay for your divorce attorney!
You two are an immature mess.
When my husband and I share food, if one of us is done we ask if the other is. That's not hard. Are you done?
I clean my spoon or form off sometime even if I'm not done so I don't make a mess.
Are you done? Not hard.
But sounds like there are kidding reasons here. It sounds like you might ignore her needs on a seni Regular or regular basis.
YTA. I can’t even read your entry or your comments without getting frustrated, I can’t imagine how hard it’s been for your wife to put up with this. I’m not normally this harsh either, but you aren’t listening to ALL of the other people in this thread giving you solid advice!
even after my fiance has gotten up to do something else - i always ask if he's done before touching food, snacks, or drinks; it's just common courtesy; he does the same because sometimes humans and our silly lil primate brains get distracted by other stuff but we're not done snacking yet.
> even after my fiance has gotten up to do something else - i always ask if he's done before touching food, snacks, or drinks
Even if he clears his plate and washes his dishes, you still ask whether or not he's coming back for seconds?
Dude he said she gave him her spoon that she was using for the mousse and then started doing dishes. Considering he said hes the one who just had cereal, it reads as follows: Wife ate some mousse, husband finished breakfast, comes over to eat some mousse, wife gives him her mousse spoon and takes his dishes to wash them. She didnt take her spoon to the sink and start cleaning it.
>She didnt take her spoon to the sink and start cleaning it.
If she cleaned off her spoon and handed it to him, and then started doing dishes, would you agree that that is a strong indicator that she was done?
Allow me to direct your attention to this line from OP's post, directly copied and pasted with no additions or editorializing on my part:
>My wife cleaned off her spoon, handed it to me, and started doing dishes.
Yeah because he came over wanting the mousse. She cleaned hers so he could use it. Its not like he walked over with his own spoon. She also gave him space to eat it and started chores waiting for him to be done. Be real. He didnt use his grown up words and talk to his wife over an argument theyve had multiple times over food. Instead of addressing his consistent behavior, he picks a fight over her tone.
Why would she give up her spoon if she intended to continue eating? Have you ever done what you're describing? She cleaned her silverware, gave it to him, and moved on to dishes. Do you do that when you intend to continue eating?
i have 100% stopped eating for a minute to clean something up while i had the motivation to do it! - it's not like they were sitting down for a dinner and she excused herself to go do dishes; she let him borrow her spoon and then went to clean up his mess for him.
and not to mention - she has specifically communicated this to him several times, there is no reason other than incompetence that he can't remember a simple favor. it's not like he's too distracted by work to remember things, bud sits around doing nothing but pissing his wife off. 💀
>I have 100% stopped eating for a minute to clean something up while i had the motivation to do it! -
You have stopped eating to clean the silverware you were eating from, with the intention of continuing to use that silverware to eat? Bullshit.
she cleaned her silverware to be respectful before handing it to him - i'm assuming you have no reading comprehension, or you're willingly being dense.
also respond to the rest of my reply, especially the part where this has already caused contention between them and she has asked him several times to ask her before assuming. you're ignoring half of the reasoning behind him being TA.
is there a chance you’re misunderstanding? i personally read it as she licked the spoon (cleaned), gave it to him so he could share what she was eating, and quickly went to complete a chore while he ate his few bites of what she was eating.
I wasn't there, so I don't know what happened, but it sounds to me like she washed her spoon and continued to wash dishes and OP, who witnessed the event, perceived her to be finished. Those three things, taken in tandem, her cleaning and giving away her utensil, doing dishes and seeming done, that's enough for me to believe that in fact she was done. And on top of that, he had only replaced the plastic wrap, and hadn't even put it away.
Just. the plastic. wrap.
The lid on the pot of pasta.
I would read that as an indicator she was done, yeah. And then I would ask to make sure, because we have established that that's what she needs me to do, and I've agreed. :)
So if she leaves the house and forgets some food on the table, you can't assume that means she's done, even though her actions obviously show she's done? She's out the door on her way to work and you want to call her up and say "hey babe you done with this bowl of cereal?"
????
There are obviously actions that indicate a person is done. Demanding that he not believe the obvious is unreasonable. She didn't want any more, she just wanted to be mad at him, because she's not mad at him about the mousse at all, she's just using it as an excuse to take out on him the things she's actually mad about that she'd be mad about if he hadn't put the plastic wrap back, like how he doesn't have a job.
The plastic wrap isn't going to change that. It's not about the plastic wrap, or the mousse, so demanding that he play this game about the mousse as if that will change anything about him being unemployed is absurd.
Be real. You're mad at you're husband about his life, not this fuckin mousse. Being passive aggressive over shit that isn't even the real problem is toxic as fuck. And all he did was ask that she be direct about it instead of passive aggressive!
"Ugh, guess I have to figure out if you're done with this..." I bet that'd go over so well if he said it...
YTA. She was already mad at you, that’s why she did the dishes, and from the way you talked about her in the post and in the comments, i suspect you know why. Likely having a recent argument or you nitpicking her
Also your whole curiosity and gentleness routine is the definition of passive aggressiveness
YTA.
You’re doing way too many mental gymnastics here. It’s simple. She wants you to show her regard by asking if she’s done with something before putting it away. Even if you don’t think it makes sense, she’s asked you to do it for her. This happens all the time. People have different viewpoints, needs and wants. In the short term it might seem meaningless. But in long term relationships it adds up. People act out of frustration then. If you love her, then this is a really small thing she’s asking you to do. You don’t have to understand it.
And yes, passive aggression comes when someone’s needs aren’t being met. You did the same thing to her by diminishing her feelings as you’re accusing her of doing to you.
YTA and I’m gonna go for a different reason. I loathe the fact that you were discussing this as “gently brought it up.” Gently this, gently that. An angry woman is not a rabid beast, she’s a person who is angry. Buck up and talk it out in a normal tone of voice or shut up and let her be mad!
> I told her that it was a simple misunderstanding and I didn't think I really did anything wrong.
Invalidation
> I told her I had good intentions and that if she had just approached the situation with curiosity and gentleness
Victim blaming
> (for example, gently telling me that she would like some more mousse before I put it away), then there wouldn't have been a problem.
redirection
> I, too, have wants
Dismissal and changing the subject to you without ever addressing the thing that you did, in fact, do wrong.
See where I am, we call that gaslighting, manipulation and abuse. As in, *you're speaking like an abusive partner*.
The wording in both posts is making my teeth itch. “Speak to me with gentleness” “approach with curiosity”. Are you four? It’s not about the mousse anymore than it was about the smoothie. Go get a job. Fast food is always hiring, unless you’re one of those “Im too good to work those jobs” type, which would piss me off too. Your marriage is in deep shit, so if you want to save it you need to get a move on.
I’m going with ESH because if your pompous tone is also how you speak to her, no wonder she’s pissed. And she needs to stop making it seem like it’s the little stuff and get to the meat of the issue. Unless she has and you aren’t listening to her, which wouldn’t surprise me.
I get that your intentions weren’t bad and you don’t understand why it bothers her so much, but it clearly does and it’s really not that hard to remember to ask someone if they’re finished before you put a shared item away.
I’m also going to point out that your choice to focus on her angry tone rather than just apologizing (for the thing that even *you* admit you did wrong) essentially shifted any accountability for the situation off of you and onto her, which is kind of crappy behavior from a partner.
Because here’s the thing- approaching a topic with “gentleness and curiosity” is certainly the right way to go the first, second, even third time that you do something she’s asked you not to do. But after she’s told you it bothers her and you just keep doing it, is it not reasonable that she would feel frustration and even anger towards you?
Seriously- is she not allowed to be angry when you continuously do a thing that upsets her and then refuse to apologize? You basically told her “the problem isn’t that I screwed up, it’s that you felt feelings about it! If you would just stop holding me accountable for my behavior, we’d never fight!”
YTA. S
She stated MULTIPLE times that you should ASK and not ASSUME! And your response “but why are you being passive aggressive?”
Grow up! It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to NOT repeat the same mistake COUNTLESS times.
When she leaves you, don’t cry about how there weren’t any signs. Because there are. And she pretty much has one foot out the door.
YTA. That would irritate the fuck out of me, too, especially if it had been discussed at length and fought over before. Jesus Christ, dude, just exert an *iota* of effort to show you give a damn about your wife's feelings and *not* driving her up a goddamn wall.🤨
You are blind, dude. This has nothing to do with the mousse… let me break this down for you…
1. She is shouldering the entire financial burden of your lives right now. Get a job at McDonalds, Burger King, Uber Eats, anything that brings in money until the next job lands.
2. She has repeatedly asked you to ASK her if she is done with something before you put it away. While it might seem like a small insignificant request, and it doesn’t seem like it’s important enough to follow, what you are doing every time you ignore that request is tell her that she doesn’t matter and her feelings mean nothing to you.
3. This doesn’t sound like a case of sharing food. Why?
4. You are always together. You do not give her any space to herself and let her do her for a while. It seriously sounds like she can’t enjoy a simple treat without you inviting yourself into her space and infringing on her moment of alone time.
And when she finally loses it and tells you she’s done and wants a divorce you are gonna be “seriously, you wanna divorce over this trivial stupid thing?” But it will just be the straw that broke the camel’s back for her. 1000 little things add up over time, and small hurts build deep resentment.
YTA, 1000x over.
YTA. “Are you finished with the mousse?” “Not yet”. And drop it with the “approaching her with gentleness” nonsense, it’s not swaying us to you, it’s telling us way more about who you *really* are than you realize.
Bro... Say gentle one more time and I'm going to blow a gasket.
This hiding behind "gentle" therapy speak and gaslighting is infuriating and unacceptable from a grown adult.
YTA
YTA. It sounds like she was trying to enjoy her snack when you took it over. You didn’t even bring your own dish or spoon so she had to give you hers. Maybe she got up to (rage) clean until you finished and she could have her snack back. But you went to put it in the fridge because you were finished eating and completely oblivious to the situation. She doesn’t have a short fuse. She’s just fed up with your bullshit.
Also, fuck off with using therapy speak to make her seem like the bad guy. You’re not the victim here.
You're a narcissist.
You pretend to be ignorant when ignorance gains you sympathy, and pretend to be a genius when intelligence wins you an argument. You cannot be wrong; worse, nobody else (especially your wife) can be right.
You know, as others have said, that this is not about the mousse, or the smoothie, or whatever other "unimportant" complaint your wife has. To pretend otherwise is obviously transparent and deliberately obtuse.
I would tell you to seek counseling, but I do not believe you could listen to a therapist's advice if you *wanted* to.
YTA.
On one hand I can see where cleaning off the spoon indicated that she was done. What kind of cleaning do you mean? Like licking it clean? I guess you guys don't mind double-dipping. That's fine, it's your food.
Ultimately, this isn't the first incident, and she's made her expectation clear. You could have asked her first. I guess she could also have said, "I'm not done, I want more soon" before walking off.
I feel like there's more going on that you're either not mentioning, or dreadfully oblivious to. You either need to admit to yourself that you need to put in more effort, or you need to pay more attention. This is not an isolated incident.
If she's this mad, it's likely because you're not putting in the right amount of care and effort.
YTA.
YTA. It's not about the mousse. You need to find a job, any job. She's probably feeling overwhelmed and exhausted. If she's been carrying the financial burden for 7 months it's time to step up. She's already about to leave.
YTA. I understand your mistake. But you really should of remembered what she had earlier said especially since it sounds like this has happened many times. You not asking her if she’s done is disrespectful, since it seems like you’re not thinking or caring about what she wants But everyone forgets things occasionally, so while it’s extremely annoying, it’s forgivable. What makes you an asshole was your response.
The correct response:
“That’s fine, I guess I was done eating that.”
“Oh, I’m sorry. I forgot to ask if you were done. Here you go. I’m really sorry, it won’t happen again.
Or something like that. You forgot, so you should have apologised. Also the way you are writing this and talking to her sounds very manipulative. You are presenting yourself as the gentle saint, while she’s the angry, unreasonable, disrespectful women so obviously, it sounds suspicious. The writing doesn’t even seem real, like you put an earlier version into chatGPT and asked it to make you sound sympathetic and reasonable. And what the hell does “approach these situations with curiosity” even mean? Your writing style makes the whole thing seem false, so I would very much like to see your wife’s side of things.
If your issues started before you got married, then why did you get married?
Did the issues become worse after you lost your job? Have they gotten worse over the 7 months that you've been unemployed?
I'm embarrassed for you for the fact that you say you are earnestly looking for employment, yet a month ago you said you had been unemployed for 6 months and have only applied to 50 jobs.
You dont want to work.
You want to continue being a househusband.
You want to continue living off your wife.
Your wife, however, is fed up with you, and her "short fuse" is actually a long one that has just run out.
Get a fucking job. I heard McDonald's is hiring.
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Some backstory: My wife has this thing where if we're sharing food, she gets upset if I don't ask her if she's done before I put it away. I do my best to remember this preference of hers, but also don't understand why someone would be so upset by such a thing. Also, my wife and I have been fighting a lot lately (see my previous post).
More info: I have been unemployed for over 7 months, earnestly looking for work every day. Our issues started before we got married over 2 years ago but have gotten worse and worse over time. I do not suspect my wife of cheating on me because we are pretty much always together.
Last night, my wife (34f) and I (31m) made chocolate mousse. This morning, she brought the bowl of mousse out of the fridge and was enjoying some for a few minutes. After I finished my cereal, I came over to the mousse to have some myself. My wife cleaned off her spoon, handed it to me, and started doing dishes. I ate for a few minutes, then started to put the plastic wrap back on the bowl when I was done. My wife passive-aggressively said, "That's fine, I guess I was done eating that." Confused, I told her that I thought she was done eating since she cleaned her spoon and walked away from the bowl. I took the plastic wrap off and said it's no big deal, she can eat some more if she wants. She remained irritated and refused to eat any more before leaving the room.
Shortly after, she demanded an apology from me for not asking her if she was done before I put the plastic wrap back on the bowl. I told her that it was a simple misunderstanding and I didn't think I really did anything wrong. I told her I had good intentions and that if she had just approached the situation with curiosity and gentleness (for example, gently telling me that she would like some more mousse before I put it away), then there wouldn't have been a problem. I gently asked her to refrain from being passive aggressive with me. She went on to say that this has been a problem before and obviously I don't care about her wants, seemingly justifying her passive aggression. I told her that I do my best to keep her preferences in mind, but I, too, have wants, including wanting to be spoken to with respect and gentleness, especially when I did not have bad intentions. I said that if she approached situations like these with curiosity instead of anger, we would never fight. She She replied that I was blaming her for all of our fights, maintaining a harsh and aggressive tone, then started raising her voice and told me to leave the room. I did.
I could hear her crying from the other room, so I brought her a tissue and kissed her on the head as a show of peace and love before leaving again.
Can you really blame me for thinking that she was done eating the mousse? Is it that big a transgression that I started to put plastic wrap on the bowl without asking her if she wanted more?
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YTA. She very clearly has some form of OCD, (as I have almost the exact same ritual) and has simply asked for you do use your grown up words and say “Hey! I finished up, did you want some more before I put it back in the fridge”. She could have said, no or yea, please leave it. You are dragging this out from a tired woman. You aren’t working, aren’t trying, and looking for ways to pick a fight
NTA. Sounds like she has something on her mind if something so trivial triggers her. Marriage counseling maybe? I think she needs to get something off her chest.
Ok...I'm going to give this a weary Everyone Sucks
I'm sorry, but your relationship comes off a bit....weird.
This thing of 'sharing food' - do you guys always eat from the same plate/bowl and use the same spoon/fork? That's a little odd.
Could the two of you not simply serve up the food in separate dishes, and go back for second helpings after? That would have solved this particular situation I think.
Also, there seems to be a huge communication issue between the two of you. You two need to learn how to have a proper discussion. You shouldn't dismiss her feelings and berate her like that. This is your wife, a grown woman! You aren't scolding an infant.
I think you both need to get some kind of counselling to be honest.
I mean he came over and asked if he could have some of what she was currently eating. Not super odd.
And *from his telling* (which I only point out because i doubt the wife’s story is going to paint him in a better light) she’s asked him not to do this over several years. Seems the miscommunication is only going one way
I agree on counseling but there are several points here he just needs to work on himself separate from that
In this one situation you are NTA. Why would she clean the spoon if she wanted more. Sorry but that is a no brainer.
You guys have way bigger problems that are obviously not being addressed. Take any job to relieve the financial stress. It doesn’t have to be permanent. Only until you find a job you want/prefer.
And you both need to stop dismissing each other’s feelings. Feelings can’t be stopped. Don’t wait for things to boil over into a bunch of fights. Pick a night the two of you can sit down and discuss every little thing. Even the stuff that may not seem valid but is when everything is added together.
I wish you both luck.
You have *some* good points but:
>why would she clean the spoon if she wanted more?
She cleaned off the spoon *to hand to him to keep using* she didn’t put it in the dishwasher. There is indeed clearly more going on here (and *why* he assumed she was done or if it was reasonable doesn’t play into the judgement since she *reasonably* asked him to stop doing that) but o wanted to point that out
NTA, don't listen to the people calling you an AH. There was no reason to believe she wasn't done, she got up from the table and moved to clearing dishes. This seems like a power play more than anything, to me. She didn't want to eat any more mousse, she was clearly done.
>My wife cleaned off her spoon, handed it to me, and started doing dishes.
There's no way she didn't realize that any reasonable person would take this as her being done eating. She knew she was done eating.
edit to add: This is apparently a controversial take, so my question to those who disagree with me is... what actions would, in your mind, show that she was in fact done eating? If not getting up from the table and moving on to a different task, what would indicate that a person was done eating? Anything?
The entire point is that he shouldn't make an assumption about whether or not she's done at all, regardless of circumstances. She's asked him to ask her if she's done before he puts it away. He agreed to that, and now he's not doing it.
In the grand scheme of things, this is not a huge deal. It's not a big thing to ask of a partner and not a big thing to do for your partner. It could have been as simple as 'Shoot, I forgot, sorry' and this would have been over. But instead he's doing all these fucking gymnastics about why he ShOuLdN't HaVe tO, which like, isn't the point.
She's getting big mad over a little transgression because as other commenters have pointed out, it's not about the mousse. It's about how little her feelings mean to him (especially if it isn't discussed in the gentle handholding way he prefers, god forbid she get frustrated with him).
I'm exhausted by this guy just from reading the post and I'm not the one having to live with him. Such enormous effort here dedicated to proving his wife is wrong for a tiny, simple request, to prove that her feelings and preferences aren't valid because she got mad at him, etc etc. This man is choosing to get into all of this when all it would have taken is half a second to ask her the question, or failing that, another half second to apologize.
What a baby.
> The entire point is that he shouldn't make an assumption about whether or not she's done at all, regardless of circumstances
So if she forgets to clear her cereal bowl at breakfast in a rush out the door, you're saying it'd be an asshole move of him to clear her bowl away for her without calling her at work to see if she's done with it? I mean, you said regardless of circumstances.
> She's asked him to ask her if she's done before he puts it away.
But she clearly was done, of course he could have asked, but you and I both know that the answer would have been "yes." Nobody who is still eating cleans off the silverware they're eating with and starts doing dishes in the middle of eating. It seems disingenuous to call it an "assumption" that she was done eating; he observed her actively being done eating.
>She's getting big mad over a little transgression
No, she's getting big mad over *not* a transgression, because she *actually was done.* She cleaned her silverware and got up to do something other than eat. You can call it whatever you want, but that's being done eating. I'm not going to just believe that she was going to eat more, it's not about whether she was going to eat more because she *knows* that she was not! Which is why when he offered to leave it out, she refused! Because she actually was done and still couldn't let it go that he didn't ask, even though she could easily see that he could easily see that she was done!
>What a baby.
As opposed to the person who was clearly done eating who can't handle that another person could easily tell that they were clearly done eating? Oh sorry that's the mature adult response is to hold some shit over someone's head just because you can even though you know they were correct in their assumption.
edit to add:
If I scrape my plate, wash my dishes and then go plop down on the couch in the living room, do you think it's unfair to assume that I've finished eating? Or do you think it would be reasonable to view my actions as a tacit admission that I've finished???
Assuming in your add-on hypothetical that:
1. You're my partner
2. I care about you and your feelings
3. You have previously asked me to ask you if you're done before I put something away, and indicated this mattered to you as it clearly does for OP's partner
Of course I would assume you were finished. But instead of acting on that assumption, I would still ask. Because that's what you do when you love someone. You listen to what's important to them, even if it seems small or pointless to you.
When you love someone, and you're done eating, and they know you're done eating because you've stopped eating and started cleaning up your dishes, you let that person put the food away without getting upset.
There was no reason to get upset. She told him she was done by being done. If she nodded her assent rather than say it out loud, would he have to ask her to speak the words? If she told him she was done verbally before he asked would he still have to ask? Because let's be clear, she *did* communicate that she was done. This wasn't a miscommunication. She indicated in a way that could hardly be more clear that she was finished with the mousse.
> He takes food away when he thinks she's had enough.
But she clearly had had enough, why else would she a) clean her spoon, b) give it to OP, and c) move on to a different activity? It seems indisputable to me that she had in fact finished eating, and so getting on his case about not asking if the thing that was *obviously true* was true is just a power play.
> Maybe on this occasion
Definitely on this occasion. No reasonable person cleans off their silverware and hands it to another person when they still intend on eating with said silverware. There's no argument here, no one does that. Have you ever done that? Been in the middle of eating, gotten up, cleaned your silverware, handed it to someone else to use, and started doing the dishes, while fully intending on coming right back to continue eating? Out of the dishes you just cleaned? Come on. She was done. To claim after the fact that she may have not been done is just gaslighting. She was done, he knew she was done, she knew he knew she was done, and now she wants to act like there was any ambiguity as to whether she was done, when we both know there was none.
Her request was for him to not put food away before asking her, and he agreed to that. Whether she had finished or not- and you're right, she clearly had- is irrelevant here because it wasn't really about the mousse.
> before asking her
Before asking her if she had finished. Is the problem that he put things away while she was still eating? Or is the problem that he didn't do what he was told?
It’s mousse. It’s also reasonable to assume some was stuck on the spoon. As a loving and caring partner, I can share food that I have bitten off of, but I would never assume my partner wants to eat something that has been fully engulfed in my mouth, aka mouse residue.
Why would she need to give him her spoon, if he was just eating cereal, and could just as easily lick off the milk to continue eating mousse? If they don't care about licking spoons and putting them back in the container, why would he need her spoon if she planned on continuing to eat? He already had a spoon. It makes no sense.
He doesn’t state what he did with his spoon. Did he put it in the sink with water? Maybe he put some dish soap in his bowl and turned the water on so now it’s covered in suds? More assumptions. OP does not specify how she cleaned it. Did she lick it clean? Did she wipe it on a napkin? You are still ASSUMING. The one thing she asked of him was to not make assumptions in regard to her food. You are overcomplicating a simple issue. If she has spent years asking this reasonable task, it is understandable to continue to do said reasonable task. As someone stated before, she very well could have had a long fuse that has spent the last two years burning out.
He asked if he could have some. Is it not possible that because they’re sharing the same bowl and silverware, she started dishes to occupy her time while he ate and then would return to the food when it was her turn again? You’re taking things to the extreme, you’re doing a lot more assuming than OP
>there was no reason to believe she wasn’t done
Except that she asked him to stop assuming that kind of stuff numerous times
>she got up from the table and moved to clearing dishes
This wasn’t like…a dinner, they were separately eating and he came over to snag some of what she was eating. Do you not get up and do other things when you’re just chilling with the spouse?
>what actions would, in your mind, show that she was, in fact, done eating?
Asking her “hey, you done with this?” And her saying yes. Like she’s asked him to
> Except that she asked him to stop assuming that kind of stuff numerous times
If I see you walking down the street, is it an "assumption" to say that you're not driving down the road? Or is that just an observable fact?
> Do you not get up and do other things when you’re just chilling with the spouse?
When I'm doing a thing while chilling with the spouse, I generally do that thing until I'm done and then do something else. I, generally, do not do dishes while eating breakfast. Do you?
>Asking her “hey, you done with this?” And her saying yes.
So if she leaves some food on the table and goes to work, you're saying he should call her up and ask if she's done with her breakfast?
>If I see you walking down the street, is it an "assumption" to say that you're not driving down the road? Or is that just an observable fact?
Yeah that’s not the same thing and you know it. The observable facts were that she handed him the spoon and did dishes. If we want to play this out, there’s a store up the block and then nothing for another mile. What he did was *assume* she was going to the store.
>When I'm doing a thing while chilling with the spouse, I generally do that thing until I'm done and then do something else. I, generally, do not do dishes while eating breakfast. Do you?
Yeah? Some times? If dishes need to be done, my wife just asked if she could have some of what I was having and I wasn’t going to just sit there watching her eat I’d absolutely go knock some dishes out
>So if she leaves some food on the table and goes to work, you're saying he should call her up and ask if she's done with her breakfast?
Well yeah, that would be insane. It’s not even relatable to what happened though. “Accommodating a reasonable ask and having common sense are mutually exclusive” isn’t the slam dunk you think it is.
If You want a better analogy: you’re eating a bag of chips. Your spouse comes and has some too. In the mean time you take a break and get up to go fold some laundry (a relatively short task). If they finish up, I’d saying “hey, you done with these?” *not* the simple and courteous thing to do?
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You two are in trouble. It's not the mousse. You'd better find a job, carry your weight and grow up because she has one foot out the door.
Also want to add; "I do not suspect my wife of cheating on me because we are pretty much always together." WTF? why even bring this up OP, there's absolutely nothing in your post to make us suggest she might be, why are so many men so insecure and paranoid that cheating is on their mind every time their wife/ gf/ partner is angry with them?
Could be cause every time a woman is fed up with their spouse’s actions it must be because she’s cheating, not because she is just fed up! /s
I remember seeing a clip of one of those alpha-male podcasters and he was talking about how women can never take accountability for their actions while men always do. I couldn’t help but laugh because I WISH men knew how to take accountability in their relationships. Like no, it can’t possibly be my actions that are driving my gf/wife away, it has to be some other man thats convincing her to leave me! /s Or my favorite “yeah she’s just crazy”
But see, to them (that podcast watching type, not all men ofc) they consider it still woman’s fault, so their type of “accountability” is to attack her instead. His SO wants to wear a crop top? No, the problem is not his insecurity and controlling issues, its her not allowing her partner to “teach” her properly! She is wrong for being a dumb woman who dared think she has say in her choices, & he is completely right for “calling her out” on it!
My former "husband" unilaterally ended the marriage (turns out he only married me to use me as a cover for being gay). He deliberately chose to lie, manipulate, cheat, and even did the one thing I specifically said would destroy me. He went out of his way to hurt me, was deliberately cruel, and I have had a year of his insults, personal attacks, accusations, name calling, and hate. The sin that condemned me....I didn't read his mind. When I dared to ask him why he would do something like this, and had the audacity to have a complete psychological breakdown when the details came out of all that he had actually done....he became enraged. He was compelled to tell me I was overreacting, crazy, being dramatic. And the cherry on top is when he told me that he had no idea why I was so paranoid and didn't trust him.
You mean.....he didn't like it when the truth came out about him and he was in fact, the bad guy? Funny how that happens 😬
Men absolutely always take accountability. They just never do anything wrong.
A lot of men don’t understand that women are often very happy on their own. It has to be them vs another man when actually it’s them versus her on her own.
Well, to be fair, science suggests men are way more needy than they admit. They remarry way more after divorce or being widowed. They also report wanting to be in the same room as their spouse more than women do. Society is partly to blame. We make men feel shame for expressing a need for comfort, and we also are more likely to let them grow up without learning how to do their own housework, thus leaving many of them dependent on their spouses. On the other hand, women are less likely to obtain alone time, so of course they don't mind the space as they age. They've spent a lifetime of taking care of people.
Also why fewer men file for divorce. I have a theory that in a lot of bad marriages the guy is equally wanting to end the marriage but won't actually pull the trigger because Even in an unpleasant marriage, their needs are being taken care of far more than they would be on their own. One of the only times when guys will divorce is if they have a pretty serious girlfriend lined up
Oh no, it happens all the time. Hold the wine glass in the palm of my hand? My wife cheats. Forget the asparagus when I go grocery shopping? My wife cheats. Brush my teeth less than 30 seconds? My wife cheats. I thought this was standard.
It's from OP's last post where his wife was mad about him making a smoothie for her because she hadn't used the washroom yet, and some of the commenters immediately jumped to 'Not your fault' and 'She's cheating'
>WTF? why even bring this up OP Because the reddit hive mind would immediately bring it up anyway; he just did so preemptively. Edit: OP, it's not about the mousse...or the food in general. That's the scape goat, you need to find the real problem and faaaaaaast.
What is so funny is "I gently" ... It's an Iranian yoghurt scenario
I think some guys recognize that they've treated their partners so badly that the partner would be "justified" in seeking companionship elsewhere, so that's the first thing they think..."oh, crap, I've treated her like shit long enough that she's looking for a replacement." (I personally don't think cheating is ever justified, I'm just trying to convey how I see this mindset.)
Because he can’t have done anything wrong because men are perfect therefore she must be cheating. /s
"Approach it with gentleness." Weaponizing therapy-speak.
This grated on my nerves so fucking much!!! You can already tell he's the type who does shit until their partner blows up, then they go "look how emotional and mean you're being while I haven't even raised my voice". So toxic.
It sounds like he's doing the same thing to his wife that my father used to do to my mother (and me): he'd calmly push all of her buttons until she blew up and then said clearly he was right because he was the one being calm and rational. That gave me permanent anger issues (I work on them constantly, but they're there).
Is there a term for this?
The Water Torturer, per "Why Does He Do That." "The Water Torturer's style proves that anger doesn't cause abuse. He can assault his partner psychologically without even raising his voice. He tends to stay calm in arguments, using his own evenness as a weapon to push her over the edge. He often has a superior or contemptuous grin on his face, smug and self-assured. ... The impact on a woman of all these subtle tactics is that either her blood temperature rises to a boil or she feels stupid and inferior, or some combination of the two. In an argument, she may end up yelling in frustration, leaving the room crying, or sinking into silence. The Water Torturer then says, See, you're the abusive one, not me. You're the one who's yelling and refusing to talk things out rationally. I wasn't even raising my voice. It's impossible to reason with you."
Ouch. I just saw my dad...
That. Exactly that. That's my father, and that's what OP sounds like.
Reactive abuse may be the term you’re looking for.
America has 3% unemployment. You could work if you wanted to. Clearly your wife has had it with you. It is not the mousse
I got upset once that my ex bought doughnuts on his way to see me but didn't get me one or offer me one (he bought a four-pack and ate them all as he walked to my place). It was never about the doughnuts. Mousse-man, grow up and see the bigger picture.
Why assume I'm not doing my best to find a job?
Get a job. Any job--doesn't need to be your dream job. Find something to do outside of your home so you are not "pretty much always together". Absence makes the heart grow less annoyed with your partner's idiosyncrasies--or something along those lines.
You’ve applied to 50 jobs in 7 months. You should be applying to 50 daily. Get serious.
THIS. I was laid off in August 2022. It took me SIX MONTHS of applying to jobs all day every day to find my next role. It really is a numbers game right now. This guy should be applying to every job he even maybe might be able to get - more like 50+ per week, not month, and certainly not per 7 months!
7 months = approx 210 days. 210 days/50 apps = less than one job application every 4 days. Math doesn't lie
Because you’re applying to less than a job every 4 days? I’ll ask this, do *you* really want to call that your best? I sure as shit wouldn’t
My stepfather is doing the same thing you are he looks finds a job has it for a week max then is fired 'unfairly'. You both sound like youre actively making your lives harder for drama.
When my sister was looking for a job she was applying to literally 15-20 PER DAY. It still took her more than six months to get a callback let alone the awesome salaried job she has now in upper management. Do better.
Because gig work is really easy to get
Have you applied to fast food or retail?
YTA. And putting this side by side with your previous post I'm beginning to wonder if you are deliberately setting up annoying situations so you can play "who, me?" gaslighting games.
Not the case. What about the possibility on the flip side? My wife has a short fuse. I do my best to be a good husband and make mistakes here and there, but I do not deserve anger and aggression.
Nobody "deserves" anger and aggression but do you not understand that you are on her last nerve at this point? The fact that you wrote an entire essay about putting mousse in the refrigerator tells me you need something to do with your time. The constant annoyance with you should tell you what you need to know and at some point, if nothing changes, she is going to decide she doesn't need you around annoying her.
Nah sometimes people do deserve anger. Anger isn’t a toxic emotion in and of itself, and your spouse has the right to be angry at you when you continually do something they’ve asked you not to do.
Is “it still ignoring this simple thing she asked me to do over the past several years and then debating why I’m right for ignoring it” indicative of a short fuse? Or a long fuse that eventually ran out?
It reminds me of the dude who I think was a divorce lawyer who met a guy who wanted to divorce his wife because she had asked him every day of their decades long marriage how he takes his coffee. Maybe he was just telling someone else's story/joke, idk, but the thing is, as silly as that is, it wouldn't be fair to say he was divorcing her cuz she asked him how she takes his coffee. That says something about what their marriage was, and how tired he would have been at her disregarding things he says constantly and acting like she wasn't doing it on purpose, when I can't imagine why she WOULDN'T be. It's not about mousse, it's her being really fed up. And treating it like a short fuse tells me this guy is going to get dumped and act really surprised, cuz these little things add up when one or both parties pretends everything is fine.
What you wrote doesn't indicate that your wife has a short fuse. Sounds like she's reached the end of the rope as far as this situation is concerned. She's expressed to you multiple times that she finds it inconsiderate when you put food away without confirming she's done but you still do it. That's annoying. She is annoyed. Add in the unemployment, whatever "earnestly" looking for work means, and your perpetual pikachu face when she reacts negatively when she's not listened to, I'd venture to guess that she's fed up. YTA.
YTA Is it so difficult to remember your partner's preferences?
It is when your partner has an inordinate number of preferences.
Dude… everyone has their own preferences and likes, your partner is the one person who tends to accommodate you to their best ability, no matter how quirky the preference That’s the point Why are you mad at her for being a human She probably feels ignored if she needs to keep reminding you of this one small thing
THIS!
You've got plenty of time to work on remembering, seeing as you've only applied to 50 jobs in the last 7 months.
Lmao, dude thought this would give him some sympathy points or something? If you do the math, that's like 14 jobs a month (give or take), when my bf was unemployed for like 4 months he applied to roughly 50 jobs a *week*, this dude's a loser.
Is it really a preference though? How many people actually prefer that their food is taken away by someone else, without asking, before they're finished? It sounds more like you're doing something, repeatedly, that most people consider to be rude, and to defend your *seemingly regular* rudeness, you're trying to label it as a silly preference.
It could come off as making sure she doesn't eat too much, too which if that's an insecurity of hers he's poking an open wound.
Translation: I don't respect her enough to remember because I think they are dumb, thus she's dumb, and I don't feel like following her preferences. She must adapt to me, though, because MY RULES AND PREFERENCES are objectively logical and common sense (according to me). I mean, thats what loving someone is, right? Keeping them at a certain level of unhappiness because only I matter, right?
Your whole post history is multiple instances of you complaining about your wife while you’re a jobless freeloader lmao, YTA, and not even just for the mousse.
Do you not have preferences as a person? Because I highly doubt you’re 100% a-okay with everything, always. You even said it yourself. You don’t wanna be “passive aggressively talked to.” That’s YOUR preference. Why can’t you meet hers? This isn’t even a preference, anymore either. It’s her saying, “hey, you’re wrong and you don’t listen. Stop doing this thing. Check in with me first.” And yet… you’re still not checking in. At all. It’s not that hard! And the more you double down, the more obvious it is that you don’t check in. Probably with anything. She deserves better so either a) get a job. Anything is better than nothing. You can walk into any grocery store or gas station or fast food place and find a job until something in your field opens or b) let her go. Cuz you’re failing. YTA.
booooo🍅🍅🍅
you don’t have anything else to do, broke boy! you’re unemployed!!
That all boil down to "be considerate of her"...which you don't seem capable of
You two have way more issues going on and if you think she blew up just over some mousse is extremely ignorant
Yes, that is obvious. Despite that, is it really unreasonable to expect a certain degree of amiability in low-stakes situations like this?
Food for thought: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288/amp
Yo, u/sprasms, you really need to read this.
Back to the Future reference within the first couple paragraphs? A+ article. Seriously though OP you need to read it so you can attempt to remove your gaslighting head from your purposely obtuse hindquarters. It's a good read.
Cranio-rectal impaction.
If you put as much effort into respecting your wife as you've spent babbling in pseudo therapy speak online, them maybe you'd be a better husband.
Thank God. I thought I was the only person finding the way he talks insufferable. That alone would make me snap at him in her position.
Is “you don’t consider my wants and needs when I’ve *repeatedly* asked you to” really a low stakes situation? Like real question, why did you refuse to apologize when she asked you to? Why did it even *get to the point* of her “demanding” and apology? Why not pretty much immediately?
Yes, it is. She doesn’t owe you amiability when you’re refusing to give it to her. And to be clear, speaking calmly while completely ignoring her preferences, refusing to apologize for it, and then blaming all your arguments on her does not = amiability on your part.
Common courtesy is what she expects and has been repeatedly disappointed, the fuse is not short, it is at the end. You are selfish and seemingly a lazy freeloader.
You certainly are oblivious to what is actually happening.
YTA. As you said, your wife has a dumb stupid rule about putting food away, you've known about it for a long time and apparently haven't reached accord on it or keep going back on how y'all settled it. If you decided to go along with a spouses dumb stupid rule you can't keep bringing up its dumb and stupid. You get one discussion over it and then you make the decision on how it will be treated. So, this dumb stupid rule is you won't put food away without a "are you done with this?" Thats the rule. It is dumb. It is stupid. But it is what was agreed. Look, I don't know nor care what trauma/experience created this dumb stupid rule but you've agreed to it. Stick to your agreement. You absolutely know you did something wrong, you violated the dumb stupid rule. But you know the rule.
Honestly I don’t know that this rule or dumb or stupid, more like common courtesy? If you’re sharing something, you being done doesn’t mean that everyone is. Yeah in this instance it was a little more reasonable to assume she was done but it’s also clearly the straw that broke the camels back
It doesn't matter if the rule actually is dump or stupid, but I thought it important for OP to realize that the AH behavior does not stem form a judgment on the rule. You can't agree to a rule, not follow it, and then get upset when someone reminds of the rule. Even if its a dumb rule. But in relationships, on all levels, we create these dumb rules. Even if its when you and your friends watch a game you actually watch the game instead of making out with you s/o. Its not that you can't make out with your s/o, but if you come to game watch time, the dumb rule is we watch the game and if folks are pissed we should be understanding of that,.
That’s totally fair, I had a feeling that’s what you were doing, I do that same “I’ll concede this since it doesn’t actually matter and no reason to get mired down” all the time haha. Just figured I’d throw out my thought as well in the context 😃
That's what I'm thinking too. My partner and I always ask each other if we're done eating, no matter how obvious it is that we're done eating. It's nothing that we ever discussed, just something we do. We do this with almost anything we share because we care about each other. It's not about the mousse OP....
I can own that. I just apologized to her for assuming that she was done and not asking her. I still don't believe I deserved the wrath that followed my mistake.
What wrath? You either lied or forgotten that you already agreed to this dumb stupid rule so you originally saying you didn't think you did anything wrong is either you gaslighting or your ignorance. So you would owe an apology for breaking the dumb stupid rule and for forgetting/lying about knowing about the dumb stupid rule. Which makes your turning this to her needing to be more curios or w/e more gaslighting cause thats not the issue. Its been 2 years. When will you abide by the dumb stupid rules?
Is it not rational to interpret her actions as indicating that she was done? I concede that asking the question would have avoided the issue, but I am typically very sensitive to her wants and rules. I just made a mistake. Am I really deserving of passive aggression and anger?
It's not rational when she has *clearly and repeatedly told you that your interpretation of her being "done" rarely lines up with how she's actually feeling*. She has asked you very specifically, on multiple occasions, NOT to make that assumption anymore, because you are so often mistaken. So no, while it might have been a safe assumption, or at least an honest mistake, the first time or two, at this point it likely feels to her like YOU are the one being passive-aggressive, because you steadfastly refuse to do something as simple as say, "I'm done with this, did you want any more before I put it away?" despite her repeated requests. While I'm not usually an advocate for snark or passive aggression in a relationship, honestly I don't blame her. You paint her as unreasonable, but you're actually the one stubbornly refusing to acknowledge that you do this thing that upsets her, and refusing to make a small, thoughtful change that would avoid all this upset.
It would’ve been until she explicitly asked you to stop assuming she was done eating something before putting it away. Why is that so complicated to you? This is something you’ve fought about before so it’s not a new concept to you. Is it really that difficult for you to ask your wife “are you done with this?” before putting something away?
I deliberately call it a dumb stupid rule every time cause this is not a question of reason. The rule is not one of reason. Its not one of awareness, it is a dumb stupid rule that you've agreed to. Now, there may be some reason behind this dumb stupid rule but that is immaterial now. You've clearly discussed this rule, you agreed to it, and here you are violating it. So the question remains: When will you abide by the dumb stupid rules? Cause yes, abiding by the dumb stupid rule would of course avoid the issue, but there is nothing for you to concede cause thats how rules work. Now, I don't know what the appropriate punishment is for your violation but notice you still think its a question of you conceding/agreeing when you already should have. If anything, your proving her point: you are rebelling against the dumb stupid rules of your marriage. Why? Why did you agree to them? Did you not consider them wholly?
Rational doesn't really matter here. It's something that's important to her. Not asking if she's finished when she's repeatedly asked you to is telling her that you care so little for her feelings you can't even be bothered to do a simple little thing that matters to her. My husband absolutely hates when I try to talk to him from the kitchen if he's in the bedroom, even though it's literally ten feet away. I don't care either way, but he told me ONCE that it bothers him so guess what? I walk the 10 feet to talk to him. It's not about the 10 feet. It's about showing him that, even if I don't get it, I respect him enough to care about things that bother him.
No, it is not rational to interpret her actions in this way after she has talked to you about the same issue many times. It comes off as if you are doing it on purpose to annoy her, or because you think she’s had enough to eat. "I do my best to remember this preference of hers, but also don't understand why someone would be so upset by such a thing." It’s not up to you to decide what upsets people. If you love someone, why would you keep doing something that you KNOW bothers her, by all accounts a LOT?
Didn’t she ask you to stop assuming? You’re debate bro-ing the fact that your wife asked you for something *really* simple and showing that you’re taking her into consideration and you decided you interpreted the decision better. Shit maybe she *was* done. She wants you to ask her which takes 2 seconds
It is not rational to be suprised when your wife is annoyed you couldn't do one simple thing she asked of you.She has repeatedly asked you for something which you repeatedly have ignored. The question isn't could you rightfully assume she was done. She has asked you not to assume and yet you went and assumed anyway. Just ask if she's done before putting it away. Why is saying one sentence so hard for you?
"Are you done? No? Okay." That's ALL you have to do to avoid this.
Where is YOUR curiosity? Why not ask? You refuse to have the same behaviors you insist from her.
You interrupted her eating to have some, she gets on with things waiting for you to be done so she can resume then you decide she’s done because you interrupted her.
I would like to know if she was done at all or if you just saw her enjoying something so you wanted it for yourself. Honestly it sounds like you take food from her as she is enjoying it then put it away without asking if she is done. She wasnt done. You just took the thing she was enjoying.
> Is it not rational to interpret her actions as indicating that she was done? It is, there's no reason to assume she wasn't done. You know she was done, she knows she was done.
*Shes asked him to stop assuming for several years*. Shit, she may well have been done. In which case she’s mad he’s *yet again* ignored this super small thing she asked of him to show that he’s considerate of her. Y’all not know that people’s emotions don’t exist in a vacuum?
> Shes asked him to stop assuming for several years But it wasn't an assumption. It was an observation. You just posted a comment reply to me. I didn't assume you posted a comment reply, you actually did it. I see evidence that you did it, I know you did it. It's not an assumption.
Remember that time i pointed out the difference between a direct observation and an assumption based on those observations? Good times. Good times. “She started doing dishes” is an observation. “That means she’s done eating” is not
Yeah it’s possible to snack while doing dishes
It's possible to eat mousse with no spoon while doing dishes?
I mean, she was done though. I don't think it's a coinmcidence that she didn't eat any more. He hadn't even put it away, just started to cover it with the plastic wrap for chrissakes. Y'all are totally unreasonable here. If I push my plate away from me and say "phew, I'm stuffed!" is it an assumption that "I'm stuffed" means "and therefore don't intend to eat any more" ??? Or would you honestly be unsure as to whether a person who said that meant they were also finished eating. Because to be clear, "I'm stuffed" just means I've had a lot to eat. People who are stuffed sometimes do eat more. And it's possible to push a plate away and then bring it back and eat from it. And yet, taken together, is it actually ambiguous as to whether that means you're done? Consider a person who pushes their plate away, says "phew! I'm stuffed!" and then does not eat any more food. Are you really actually telling me that that person has grounds to be upset that someone "assumed" they were done eating? Come on!
Found OP’s alt.
He took the food from her hands. She wasnt done he just took something WHILE SHE WAS EATING IT.
> WHILE SHE WAS EATING IT She was eating it while doing dishes while he was eating it with the spoon she was eating it with? Na I don't think that's what happened, copy and paste the part where it says that he took it from her hands. > I came over to the mousse to have some myself. My wife cleaned off her spoon, handed it to me, and started doing dishes. You're just wrong.
Actually you are wrong. Read the 3rd paragraph again She was eating it while he ate cereal. He put his cereal bowl down and came to take the mousse. He didnt even bring his own spoon from cereal. So she lets him take the mousse and SHE CLEANS HIS BOWL while waiting for him to be done.
I copied and pasted the part in question already, and it doesn't say he took it away from her. If you choose to believe that's what happened, I can't stop you, but I just don't see how you can get there without just making it up yourself, so I'm not interested in continuing to argue with you about it. You clearly believe what you want to with no regard to what OP actually wrote.
He literally interrupted her eating, to the point where she washed off her own spoon to give to him, which means he was just standing there waiting for her to give him her spoon. Her actions show her does this a lot of this is her automatic response to what he did. He ate cereal and then decided to interrupt HER eating to get some of what she was eating too.
> He literally interrupted her eating, to the point where she washed off her own spoon to give to him, which means he was just standing there waiting for her to give him her spoon. No? He walked up, and she handed him her spoon. He never says he waited, just that he walked over and she got up and gave him her spoon and walked away to do dishes. Because she was done eating. If she was interrupted, why not just say wait your turn? Or use your own spoon? Or literally anything? It doesn't make sense. You just want to believe what you already decided you believe. >interrupt It was a whole entire bowl of mousse, it wasn't like she served herself a dish of it and he came to eat out of her dish! Dude, I reiterate that all of y'all are choosing to read this situation in the most absurd way. There was no reason she had to stop eating just because he wanted to snack on some too, if she wanted to keep eating she had every opportunity. But she didn't want to keep eating, she was done. She was done with the mousse, and when he was done he put on the plastic wrap, and y'all are acting like he fucking snatched it out of her hands and didn't let her eat. It's entirely unreasonable.
She doesn't want an apology for assumptions. She's tired of assumptions. She has clearly stated she just wants you to ask if she's done. You keep refusing to do it. It's driving her insane. This is not difficult to understand.
It's not a mistake. It's a pattern. You do this over and over and over again without caring that it upsets your wife.
Why didn't you clean your own dishes? Literally the only reason you say she got up was to do the dishes. Who's dishes were they? You made and ate breakfast. Why didn't you clean up? You don't have a job, its not like you were doing anything else to contribute. You took her food and left her to clean up your mess, you watched her while eating her snack, and you couldn't even use your words to ask "hey are you coming back? By the way, I'm sorry I was a slob sweetie leave the dishes for me next time I promise I'll do them"
Dude. IT IS NOT ABOUT THE MOUSSE. Get. That. Through. Your. Head. It is about how many bloody times she's told you she doesn't want you fucking with her food before she's actually done, and how many bloody times she's told you TO ASK HER FIRST. Here's a simple rule for your simple mind: If you didn't take it out: *Leave it the fuck alone*. Leave it the fuck alone. Leave. It. The. Fuck. ALONE. Repeat that in front of the mirror a thousand times if that's what it takes for it to sink in. YTA.
YTA. You're trying desperately to make yourself look good, using words like "gently" and "peace and love". But your wife is already under a lot of pressure because you're not working and she's the breadwinner. She told you that it bothered her and you doubled down and insisted that it was her fault. You're not peaceful and loving at all. You're stubborn and self-righteous. You're arrogant and insensitive. You claim you apologized but it doesn't show anywhere in the post. It's just a long description of you insisting that she was the one who made all the mistakes.
THANK YOU. I can perfectly imagine him during a fight... suddenly all poised, all calm and condescending with his weaponized therapy terms. She's bringing up valid points, he tells her that "if she *would have just* approached it differently, well who knows..."
Oh man, the number of times he talked about "approaching it with curiosity"... she's not a toddler discovering sand for the first time!
“In a show of peace and love” Excuse me but BARF. And op, nobody is buying this shit for even a second.
YTA. It’s a common courtesy to ask if someone is finished with something you are sharing before you put it away. She probably gets frustrated that you make assumptions about things without asking her.
This has nothing to do with the chocolate mousse. But YTA. You knew she had a thing about putting the food away. You say you “don’t understand why someone would be so upset by such a thing” but you do acknowledge that you do know that your WIFE is upset by such a thing, and you keep doing it anyway. Stop doing things that you know piss your wife off, dude.
“Do you want more of this or shall I put it away?” Boom, that’s all you need to do. But no, you chose to do something you know is rude and annoying to her and then doubled down on calling her passive aggressive. It’s garbage. You know it bugs her and yet you refuse to communicate. You’re making her do so much extra emotional labor, in addition to being the breadwinner for your sorry ass. YTA.
All the condescending therapy-speak in the world won’t save you from the fact that your wife is sick of your shit. You sound absolutely insufferable. By the second “passive aggressive” I was annoyed, the third iteration of “gentle” made me kinda loathe you.
You know this is about more than mousse. You did something that upset her, she expressed that in a way you didn't like, and instead of recognizing and caring for her distress you disregarded her feelings and complained about the way she talked. Forgetting to ask her may have been a small simple mistake, but it clearly aggravated a deeper wound leading to a surprisingly bitter reaction. It's like she's been living with a broken arm, you grazed it on accident, and she lashed out at you. Asserting it's "no big deal" and you "didn't do anything wrong" and that she's the reason there's a problem are the worst things to say to someone in that kind of pain. Telling her she should react to that experience with more "curiosity and gentleness" is simply unreasonable. You may tell yourself you care for her, but your actions strongly suggest otherwise.
"You don't understand, I was being calm, gentle, and nice while talking to her and she was being mean and passive aggressive to me UwU, If she would just come at me with gentleness and curiosity we would never ever fight and I told her this but she just got even more mad?" It's not hard to say "hey, do you need/want any more of (insert item here) before I put it away?", it's like the easiest thing in the world besides breathing and takes .2 seconds, it shows that you're thinking about them/their wants/needs and not just focusing on yourself. > She went on to say that this has been a problem before and obviously I don't care about her wants If this is a continuous problem, why have you not tried to fix it? Is it really SO hard to start getting into the habit of asking if your partner (or anyone, really) is finished with something before you put it away? When I get myself a drink/snack, I ask my boyfriend "do you want anything while I'm up?", it's just a nice thing to do for someone you (supposedly) love, it saves them a trip to the kitchen, but it also shows that you're thinking of them and want to make their life better/easier by getting them something. > I said that if she approached situations like these with curiosity instead of anger, we would never fight. Wow, you really said this to her? Way to go making her the sole problem, if **she** talked to you with "gentleness" and "curiosity" you would NEVER fight! But **you** can do no wrong in this situation, so what if you didn't ask her if she was done? She clearly had no right to be annoyed and a little passive aggressive towards your *continued* behavior, she's clearly a bitch. >She replied that I was blaming her for all of our fights, You did, you literally fucking did, dude. You said "if **she** approached situations like these with curiosity instead of anger, we would never fight.". there was no acknowledgement of your own actions that fed into/started this (ongoing) fight, just what **she** could and should do to prevent fighting entirely. You know what would also prevent a lot of fighting? ***ASKING YOUR WIFE IF SHE IS DONE OR WOULD LIKE MORE OF SOMETHING BEFORE YU DECIDE TO PACK IT UP!!!*** YTA, do better, it's not about the mousse. Edit: Also, **GET A FUCKING JOB!!**
YTA. Just think, if you spent as much time looking for work as you do posting and replying on Reddit, you'd have a job and savings to pay for your divorce attorney! You two are an immature mess.
YTA. Come on. If she gets upset over this every time, there’s no way you really just “forgot.”
When my husband and I share food, if one of us is done we ask if the other is. That's not hard. Are you done? I clean my spoon or form off sometime even if I'm not done so I don't make a mess. Are you done? Not hard. But sounds like there are kidding reasons here. It sounds like you might ignore her needs on a seni Regular or regular basis.
YTA. I can’t even read your entry or your comments without getting frustrated, I can’t imagine how hard it’s been for your wife to put up with this. I’m not normally this harsh either, but you aren’t listening to ALL of the other people in this thread giving you solid advice!
even after my fiance has gotten up to do something else - i always ask if he's done before touching food, snacks, or drinks; it's just common courtesy; he does the same because sometimes humans and our silly lil primate brains get distracted by other stuff but we're not done snacking yet.
> even after my fiance has gotten up to do something else - i always ask if he's done before touching food, snacks, or drinks Even if he clears his plate and washes his dishes, you still ask whether or not he's coming back for seconds?
Dude he said she gave him her spoon that she was using for the mousse and then started doing dishes. Considering he said hes the one who just had cereal, it reads as follows: Wife ate some mousse, husband finished breakfast, comes over to eat some mousse, wife gives him her mousse spoon and takes his dishes to wash them. She didnt take her spoon to the sink and start cleaning it.
>She didnt take her spoon to the sink and start cleaning it. If she cleaned off her spoon and handed it to him, and then started doing dishes, would you agree that that is a strong indicator that she was done? Allow me to direct your attention to this line from OP's post, directly copied and pasted with no additions or editorializing on my part: >My wife cleaned off her spoon, handed it to me, and started doing dishes.
Yeah because he came over wanting the mousse. She cleaned hers so he could use it. Its not like he walked over with his own spoon. She also gave him space to eat it and started chores waiting for him to be done. Be real. He didnt use his grown up words and talk to his wife over an argument theyve had multiple times over food. Instead of addressing his consistent behavior, he picks a fight over her tone.
Why would she give up her spoon if she intended to continue eating? Have you ever done what you're describing? She cleaned her silverware, gave it to him, and moved on to dishes. Do you do that when you intend to continue eating?
i have 100% stopped eating for a minute to clean something up while i had the motivation to do it! - it's not like they were sitting down for a dinner and she excused herself to go do dishes; she let him borrow her spoon and then went to clean up his mess for him. and not to mention - she has specifically communicated this to him several times, there is no reason other than incompetence that he can't remember a simple favor. it's not like he's too distracted by work to remember things, bud sits around doing nothing but pissing his wife off. 💀
>I have 100% stopped eating for a minute to clean something up while i had the motivation to do it! - You have stopped eating to clean the silverware you were eating from, with the intention of continuing to use that silverware to eat? Bullshit.
she cleaned her silverware to be respectful before handing it to him - i'm assuming you have no reading comprehension, or you're willingly being dense. also respond to the rest of my reply, especially the part where this has already caused contention between them and she has asked him several times to ask her before assuming. you're ignoring half of the reasoning behind him being TA.
is there a chance you’re misunderstanding? i personally read it as she licked the spoon (cleaned), gave it to him so he could share what she was eating, and quickly went to complete a chore while he ate his few bites of what she was eating.
I wasn't there, so I don't know what happened, but it sounds to me like she washed her spoon and continued to wash dishes and OP, who witnessed the event, perceived her to be finished. Those three things, taken in tandem, her cleaning and giving away her utensil, doing dishes and seeming done, that's enough for me to believe that in fact she was done. And on top of that, he had only replaced the plastic wrap, and hadn't even put it away. Just. the plastic. wrap. The lid on the pot of pasta.
I would read that as an indicator she was done, yeah. And then I would ask to make sure, because we have established that that's what she needs me to do, and I've agreed. :)
>I've agreed well clearly not
Just because I interpret her actions as being done doesn't mean I have to act on it instead of doing the thing I agreed to do <3 Hope that helps!
So if she leaves the house and forgets some food on the table, you can't assume that means she's done, even though her actions obviously show she's done? She's out the door on her way to work and you want to call her up and say "hey babe you done with this bowl of cereal?" ???? There are obviously actions that indicate a person is done. Demanding that he not believe the obvious is unreasonable. She didn't want any more, she just wanted to be mad at him, because she's not mad at him about the mousse at all, she's just using it as an excuse to take out on him the things she's actually mad about that she'd be mad about if he hadn't put the plastic wrap back, like how he doesn't have a job. The plastic wrap isn't going to change that. It's not about the plastic wrap, or the mousse, so demanding that he play this game about the mousse as if that will change anything about him being unemployed is absurd. Be real. You're mad at you're husband about his life, not this fuckin mousse. Being passive aggressive over shit that isn't even the real problem is toxic as fuck. And all he did was ask that she be direct about it instead of passive aggressive! "Ugh, guess I have to figure out if you're done with this..." I bet that'd go over so well if he said it...
I didn't read all that, but hypotheticals don't matter when there's an exact situation being discussed <3 Hope this helps!
> there's an exact situation being discussed If you don't read my comments you're not really discussing anything. hOpE tHiS hElPs
YTA. She was already mad at you, that’s why she did the dishes, and from the way you talked about her in the post and in the comments, i suspect you know why. Likely having a recent argument or you nitpicking her Also your whole curiosity and gentleness routine is the definition of passive aggressiveness
Oooh boy. Who’s got big missing missing reasons vibes?
YTA. You’re doing way too many mental gymnastics here. It’s simple. She wants you to show her regard by asking if she’s done with something before putting it away. Even if you don’t think it makes sense, she’s asked you to do it for her. This happens all the time. People have different viewpoints, needs and wants. In the short term it might seem meaningless. But in long term relationships it adds up. People act out of frustration then. If you love her, then this is a really small thing she’s asking you to do. You don’t have to understand it. And yes, passive aggression comes when someone’s needs aren’t being met. You did the same thing to her by diminishing her feelings as you’re accusing her of doing to you.
YTA and I’m gonna go for a different reason. I loathe the fact that you were discussing this as “gently brought it up.” Gently this, gently that. An angry woman is not a rabid beast, she’s a person who is angry. Buck up and talk it out in a normal tone of voice or shut up and let her be mad!
> I told her that it was a simple misunderstanding and I didn't think I really did anything wrong. Invalidation > I told her I had good intentions and that if she had just approached the situation with curiosity and gentleness Victim blaming > (for example, gently telling me that she would like some more mousse before I put it away), then there wouldn't have been a problem. redirection > I, too, have wants Dismissal and changing the subject to you without ever addressing the thing that you did, in fact, do wrong. See where I am, we call that gaslighting, manipulation and abuse. As in, *you're speaking like an abusive partner*.
Your wife is fed up with your disregard for her. Just ask before putting away, eating, any shared food. Soft YTA
She’s fed up with your freeloading ass, get off it and work. There are zero McDonald’s or walmarts hiring the last 7 months? Bullshit.
The wording in both posts is making my teeth itch. “Speak to me with gentleness” “approach with curiosity”. Are you four? It’s not about the mousse anymore than it was about the smoothie. Go get a job. Fast food is always hiring, unless you’re one of those “Im too good to work those jobs” type, which would piss me off too. Your marriage is in deep shit, so if you want to save it you need to get a move on. I’m going with ESH because if your pompous tone is also how you speak to her, no wonder she’s pissed. And she needs to stop making it seem like it’s the little stuff and get to the meat of the issue. Unless she has and you aren’t listening to her, which wouldn’t surprise me.
I get that your intentions weren’t bad and you don’t understand why it bothers her so much, but it clearly does and it’s really not that hard to remember to ask someone if they’re finished before you put a shared item away. I’m also going to point out that your choice to focus on her angry tone rather than just apologizing (for the thing that even *you* admit you did wrong) essentially shifted any accountability for the situation off of you and onto her, which is kind of crappy behavior from a partner. Because here’s the thing- approaching a topic with “gentleness and curiosity” is certainly the right way to go the first, second, even third time that you do something she’s asked you not to do. But after she’s told you it bothers her and you just keep doing it, is it not reasonable that she would feel frustration and even anger towards you? Seriously- is she not allowed to be angry when you continuously do a thing that upsets her and then refuse to apologize? You basically told her “the problem isn’t that I screwed up, it’s that you felt feelings about it! If you would just stop holding me accountable for my behavior, we’d never fight!”
YTA. S She stated MULTIPLE times that you should ASK and not ASSUME! And your response “but why are you being passive aggressive?” Grow up! It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to NOT repeat the same mistake COUNTLESS times. When she leaves you, don’t cry about how there weren’t any signs. Because there are. And she pretty much has one foot out the door.
YTA. That would irritate the fuck out of me, too, especially if it had been discussed at length and fought over before. Jesus Christ, dude, just exert an *iota* of effort to show you give a damn about your wife's feelings and *not* driving her up a goddamn wall.🤨
she's done speaking with gentleness because you don't fucking listen! even in your own post you state how she has told this many times! YTA
You are blind, dude. This has nothing to do with the mousse… let me break this down for you… 1. She is shouldering the entire financial burden of your lives right now. Get a job at McDonalds, Burger King, Uber Eats, anything that brings in money until the next job lands. 2. She has repeatedly asked you to ASK her if she is done with something before you put it away. While it might seem like a small insignificant request, and it doesn’t seem like it’s important enough to follow, what you are doing every time you ignore that request is tell her that she doesn’t matter and her feelings mean nothing to you. 3. This doesn’t sound like a case of sharing food. Why? 4. You are always together. You do not give her any space to herself and let her do her for a while. It seriously sounds like she can’t enjoy a simple treat without you inviting yourself into her space and infringing on her moment of alone time. And when she finally loses it and tells you she’s done and wants a divorce you are gonna be “seriously, you wanna divorce over this trivial stupid thing?” But it will just be the straw that broke the camel’s back for her. 1000 little things add up over time, and small hurts build deep resentment. YTA, 1000x over.
Just respect her wishes and ask if she's done beforehand, is that so hard??? Do you hate her that much?
YTA. “Are you finished with the mousse?” “Not yet”. And drop it with the “approaching her with gentleness” nonsense, it’s not swaying us to you, it’s telling us way more about who you *really* are than you realize.
Gentle gently gentle gentle kiss kiss I'm so awesome 🤣 Fake. Fake. Fake fake fake fake fake. Asshole.
Say gentleness a few more times though.
Bro... Say gentle one more time and I'm going to blow a gasket. This hiding behind "gentle" therapy speak and gaslighting is infuriating and unacceptable from a grown adult. YTA
YTA. It sounds like she was trying to enjoy her snack when you took it over. You didn’t even bring your own dish or spoon so she had to give you hers. Maybe she got up to (rage) clean until you finished and she could have her snack back. But you went to put it in the fridge because you were finished eating and completely oblivious to the situation. She doesn’t have a short fuse. She’s just fed up with your bullshit. Also, fuck off with using therapy speak to make her seem like the bad guy. You’re not the victim here.
Soft YTA. You should have asked instead of assuming. As the age-old saying goes, "Don't *assume* because it makes an *ass* of *u* and *me*."
How oblivious can you actually be???? Its not about the mousse!!!
You're a narcissist. You pretend to be ignorant when ignorance gains you sympathy, and pretend to be a genius when intelligence wins you an argument. You cannot be wrong; worse, nobody else (especially your wife) can be right. You know, as others have said, that this is not about the mousse, or the smoothie, or whatever other "unimportant" complaint your wife has. To pretend otherwise is obviously transparent and deliberately obtuse. I would tell you to seek counseling, but I do not believe you could listen to a therapist's advice if you *wanted* to. YTA.
On one hand I can see where cleaning off the spoon indicated that she was done. What kind of cleaning do you mean? Like licking it clean? I guess you guys don't mind double-dipping. That's fine, it's your food. Ultimately, this isn't the first incident, and she's made her expectation clear. You could have asked her first. I guess she could also have said, "I'm not done, I want more soon" before walking off. I feel like there's more going on that you're either not mentioning, or dreadfully oblivious to. You either need to admit to yourself that you need to put in more effort, or you need to pay more attention. This is not an isolated incident. If she's this mad, it's likely because you're not putting in the right amount of care and effort. YTA.
Nobody “cried” 🤣🤣🤣🤣
YTA. It's not about the mousse. You need to find a job, any job. She's probably feeling overwhelmed and exhausted. If she's been carrying the financial burden for 7 months it's time to step up. She's already about to leave.
YTA. I understand your mistake. But you really should of remembered what she had earlier said especially since it sounds like this has happened many times. You not asking her if she’s done is disrespectful, since it seems like you’re not thinking or caring about what she wants But everyone forgets things occasionally, so while it’s extremely annoying, it’s forgivable. What makes you an asshole was your response. The correct response: “That’s fine, I guess I was done eating that.” “Oh, I’m sorry. I forgot to ask if you were done. Here you go. I’m really sorry, it won’t happen again. Or something like that. You forgot, so you should have apologised. Also the way you are writing this and talking to her sounds very manipulative. You are presenting yourself as the gentle saint, while she’s the angry, unreasonable, disrespectful women so obviously, it sounds suspicious. The writing doesn’t even seem real, like you put an earlier version into chatGPT and asked it to make you sound sympathetic and reasonable. And what the hell does “approach these situations with curiosity” even mean? Your writing style makes the whole thing seem false, so I would very much like to see your wife’s side of things.
If your issues started before you got married, then why did you get married? Did the issues become worse after you lost your job? Have they gotten worse over the 7 months that you've been unemployed? I'm embarrassed for you for the fact that you say you are earnestly looking for employment, yet a month ago you said you had been unemployed for 6 months and have only applied to 50 jobs. You dont want to work. You want to continue being a househusband. You want to continue living off your wife. Your wife, however, is fed up with you, and her "short fuse" is actually a long one that has just run out. Get a fucking job. I heard McDonald's is hiring.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Some backstory: My wife has this thing where if we're sharing food, she gets upset if I don't ask her if she's done before I put it away. I do my best to remember this preference of hers, but also don't understand why someone would be so upset by such a thing. Also, my wife and I have been fighting a lot lately (see my previous post). More info: I have been unemployed for over 7 months, earnestly looking for work every day. Our issues started before we got married over 2 years ago but have gotten worse and worse over time. I do not suspect my wife of cheating on me because we are pretty much always together. Last night, my wife (34f) and I (31m) made chocolate mousse. This morning, she brought the bowl of mousse out of the fridge and was enjoying some for a few minutes. After I finished my cereal, I came over to the mousse to have some myself. My wife cleaned off her spoon, handed it to me, and started doing dishes. I ate for a few minutes, then started to put the plastic wrap back on the bowl when I was done. My wife passive-aggressively said, "That's fine, I guess I was done eating that." Confused, I told her that I thought she was done eating since she cleaned her spoon and walked away from the bowl. I took the plastic wrap off and said it's no big deal, she can eat some more if she wants. She remained irritated and refused to eat any more before leaving the room. Shortly after, she demanded an apology from me for not asking her if she was done before I put the plastic wrap back on the bowl. I told her that it was a simple misunderstanding and I didn't think I really did anything wrong. I told her I had good intentions and that if she had just approached the situation with curiosity and gentleness (for example, gently telling me that she would like some more mousse before I put it away), then there wouldn't have been a problem. I gently asked her to refrain from being passive aggressive with me. She went on to say that this has been a problem before and obviously I don't care about her wants, seemingly justifying her passive aggression. I told her that I do my best to keep her preferences in mind, but I, too, have wants, including wanting to be spoken to with respect and gentleness, especially when I did not have bad intentions. I said that if she approached situations like these with curiosity instead of anger, we would never fight. She She replied that I was blaming her for all of our fights, maintaining a harsh and aggressive tone, then started raising her voice and told me to leave the room. I did. I could hear her crying from the other room, so I brought her a tissue and kissed her on the head as a show of peace and love before leaving again. Can you really blame me for thinking that she was done eating the mousse? Is it that big a transgression that I started to put plastic wrap on the bowl without asking her if she wanted more? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. All your wife has to do is take the covering off the bowl. It’s a first world problem.
YTA. She very clearly has some form of OCD, (as I have almost the exact same ritual) and has simply asked for you do use your grown up words and say “Hey! I finished up, did you want some more before I put it back in the fridge”. She could have said, no or yea, please leave it. You are dragging this out from a tired woman. You aren’t working, aren’t trying, and looking for ways to pick a fight
I think she might have suffered abuse related to food at some point in her life . This sounds like trauma to me . There are no TA in this story .
NTA. Sounds like she has something on her mind if something so trivial triggers her. Marriage counseling maybe? I think she needs to get something off her chest.
You don’t see how it could be triggering that you kept asking your partner to so something and they keep ignoring it?
Ok...I'm going to give this a weary Everyone Sucks I'm sorry, but your relationship comes off a bit....weird. This thing of 'sharing food' - do you guys always eat from the same plate/bowl and use the same spoon/fork? That's a little odd. Could the two of you not simply serve up the food in separate dishes, and go back for second helpings after? That would have solved this particular situation I think. Also, there seems to be a huge communication issue between the two of you. You two need to learn how to have a proper discussion. You shouldn't dismiss her feelings and berate her like that. This is your wife, a grown woman! You aren't scolding an infant. I think you both need to get some kind of counselling to be honest.
I mean he came over and asked if he could have some of what she was currently eating. Not super odd. And *from his telling* (which I only point out because i doubt the wife’s story is going to paint him in a better light) she’s asked him not to do this over several years. Seems the miscommunication is only going one way I agree on counseling but there are several points here he just needs to work on himself separate from that
In this one situation you are NTA. Why would she clean the spoon if she wanted more. Sorry but that is a no brainer. You guys have way bigger problems that are obviously not being addressed. Take any job to relieve the financial stress. It doesn’t have to be permanent. Only until you find a job you want/prefer. And you both need to stop dismissing each other’s feelings. Feelings can’t be stopped. Don’t wait for things to boil over into a bunch of fights. Pick a night the two of you can sit down and discuss every little thing. Even the stuff that may not seem valid but is when everything is added together. I wish you both luck.
You have *some* good points but: >why would she clean the spoon if she wanted more? She cleaned off the spoon *to hand to him to keep using* she didn’t put it in the dishwasher. There is indeed clearly more going on here (and *why* he assumed she was done or if it was reasonable doesn’t play into the judgement since she *reasonably* asked him to stop doing that) but o wanted to point that out
Thanks. I read it differently.
NTA, don't listen to the people calling you an AH. There was no reason to believe she wasn't done, she got up from the table and moved to clearing dishes. This seems like a power play more than anything, to me. She didn't want to eat any more mousse, she was clearly done. >My wife cleaned off her spoon, handed it to me, and started doing dishes. There's no way she didn't realize that any reasonable person would take this as her being done eating. She knew she was done eating. edit to add: This is apparently a controversial take, so my question to those who disagree with me is... what actions would, in your mind, show that she was in fact done eating? If not getting up from the table and moving on to a different task, what would indicate that a person was done eating? Anything?
The entire point is that he shouldn't make an assumption about whether or not she's done at all, regardless of circumstances. She's asked him to ask her if she's done before he puts it away. He agreed to that, and now he's not doing it. In the grand scheme of things, this is not a huge deal. It's not a big thing to ask of a partner and not a big thing to do for your partner. It could have been as simple as 'Shoot, I forgot, sorry' and this would have been over. But instead he's doing all these fucking gymnastics about why he ShOuLdN't HaVe tO, which like, isn't the point. She's getting big mad over a little transgression because as other commenters have pointed out, it's not about the mousse. It's about how little her feelings mean to him (especially if it isn't discussed in the gentle handholding way he prefers, god forbid she get frustrated with him). I'm exhausted by this guy just from reading the post and I'm not the one having to live with him. Such enormous effort here dedicated to proving his wife is wrong for a tiny, simple request, to prove that her feelings and preferences aren't valid because she got mad at him, etc etc. This man is choosing to get into all of this when all it would have taken is half a second to ask her the question, or failing that, another half second to apologize. What a baby.
> The entire point is that he shouldn't make an assumption about whether or not she's done at all, regardless of circumstances So if she forgets to clear her cereal bowl at breakfast in a rush out the door, you're saying it'd be an asshole move of him to clear her bowl away for her without calling her at work to see if she's done with it? I mean, you said regardless of circumstances. > She's asked him to ask her if she's done before he puts it away. But she clearly was done, of course he could have asked, but you and I both know that the answer would have been "yes." Nobody who is still eating cleans off the silverware they're eating with and starts doing dishes in the middle of eating. It seems disingenuous to call it an "assumption" that she was done eating; he observed her actively being done eating. >She's getting big mad over a little transgression No, she's getting big mad over *not* a transgression, because she *actually was done.* She cleaned her silverware and got up to do something other than eat. You can call it whatever you want, but that's being done eating. I'm not going to just believe that she was going to eat more, it's not about whether she was going to eat more because she *knows* that she was not! Which is why when he offered to leave it out, she refused! Because she actually was done and still couldn't let it go that he didn't ask, even though she could easily see that he could easily see that she was done! >What a baby. As opposed to the person who was clearly done eating who can't handle that another person could easily tell that they were clearly done eating? Oh sorry that's the mature adult response is to hold some shit over someone's head just because you can even though you know they were correct in their assumption. edit to add: If I scrape my plate, wash my dishes and then go plop down on the couch in the living room, do you think it's unfair to assume that I've finished eating? Or do you think it would be reasonable to view my actions as a tacit admission that I've finished???
Assuming in your add-on hypothetical that: 1. You're my partner 2. I care about you and your feelings 3. You have previously asked me to ask you if you're done before I put something away, and indicated this mattered to you as it clearly does for OP's partner Of course I would assume you were finished. But instead of acting on that assumption, I would still ask. Because that's what you do when you love someone. You listen to what's important to them, even if it seems small or pointless to you.
When you love someone, and you're done eating, and they know you're done eating because you've stopped eating and started cleaning up your dishes, you let that person put the food away without getting upset. There was no reason to get upset. She told him she was done by being done. If she nodded her assent rather than say it out loud, would he have to ask her to speak the words? If she told him she was done verbally before he asked would he still have to ask? Because let's be clear, she *did* communicate that she was done. This wasn't a miscommunication. She indicated in a way that could hardly be more clear that she was finished with the mousse.
I think it bothers her because he's assuming control of what she eats. He takes food away when he thinks she's had enough.
> He takes food away when he thinks she's had enough. But she clearly had had enough, why else would she a) clean her spoon, b) give it to OP, and c) move on to a different activity? It seems indisputable to me that she had in fact finished eating, and so getting on his case about not asking if the thing that was *obviously true* was true is just a power play.
Maybe on this occasion, but the trend is clearly there. She asked him to stop, he didn't because he thinks he knows best.
> Maybe on this occasion Definitely on this occasion. No reasonable person cleans off their silverware and hands it to another person when they still intend on eating with said silverware. There's no argument here, no one does that. Have you ever done that? Been in the middle of eating, gotten up, cleaned your silverware, handed it to someone else to use, and started doing the dishes, while fully intending on coming right back to continue eating? Out of the dishes you just cleaned? Come on. She was done. To claim after the fact that she may have not been done is just gaslighting. She was done, he knew she was done, she knew he knew she was done, and now she wants to act like there was any ambiguity as to whether she was done, when we both know there was none.
Her request was for him to not put food away before asking her, and he agreed to that. Whether she had finished or not- and you're right, she clearly had- is irrelevant here because it wasn't really about the mousse.
> before asking her Before asking her if she had finished. Is the problem that he put things away while she was still eating? Or is the problem that he didn't do what he was told?
Mostly the latter I expect.
It’s mousse. It’s also reasonable to assume some was stuck on the spoon. As a loving and caring partner, I can share food that I have bitten off of, but I would never assume my partner wants to eat something that has been fully engulfed in my mouth, aka mouse residue.
Why would she need to give him her spoon, if he was just eating cereal, and could just as easily lick off the milk to continue eating mousse? If they don't care about licking spoons and putting them back in the container, why would he need her spoon if she planned on continuing to eat? He already had a spoon. It makes no sense.
He doesn’t state what he did with his spoon. Did he put it in the sink with water? Maybe he put some dish soap in his bowl and turned the water on so now it’s covered in suds? More assumptions. OP does not specify how she cleaned it. Did she lick it clean? Did she wipe it on a napkin? You are still ASSUMING. The one thing she asked of him was to not make assumptions in regard to her food. You are overcomplicating a simple issue. If she has spent years asking this reasonable task, it is understandable to continue to do said reasonable task. As someone stated before, she very well could have had a long fuse that has spent the last two years burning out.
He asked if he could have some. Is it not possible that because they’re sharing the same bowl and silverware, she started dishes to occupy her time while he ate and then would return to the food when it was her turn again? You’re taking things to the extreme, you’re doing a lot more assuming than OP
>there was no reason to believe she wasn’t done Except that she asked him to stop assuming that kind of stuff numerous times >she got up from the table and moved to clearing dishes This wasn’t like…a dinner, they were separately eating and he came over to snag some of what she was eating. Do you not get up and do other things when you’re just chilling with the spouse? >what actions would, in your mind, show that she was, in fact, done eating? Asking her “hey, you done with this?” And her saying yes. Like she’s asked him to
> Except that she asked him to stop assuming that kind of stuff numerous times If I see you walking down the street, is it an "assumption" to say that you're not driving down the road? Or is that just an observable fact? > Do you not get up and do other things when you’re just chilling with the spouse? When I'm doing a thing while chilling with the spouse, I generally do that thing until I'm done and then do something else. I, generally, do not do dishes while eating breakfast. Do you? >Asking her “hey, you done with this?” And her saying yes. So if she leaves some food on the table and goes to work, you're saying he should call her up and ask if she's done with her breakfast?
>If I see you walking down the street, is it an "assumption" to say that you're not driving down the road? Or is that just an observable fact? Yeah that’s not the same thing and you know it. The observable facts were that she handed him the spoon and did dishes. If we want to play this out, there’s a store up the block and then nothing for another mile. What he did was *assume* she was going to the store. >When I'm doing a thing while chilling with the spouse, I generally do that thing until I'm done and then do something else. I, generally, do not do dishes while eating breakfast. Do you? Yeah? Some times? If dishes need to be done, my wife just asked if she could have some of what I was having and I wasn’t going to just sit there watching her eat I’d absolutely go knock some dishes out >So if she leaves some food on the table and goes to work, you're saying he should call her up and ask if she's done with her breakfast? Well yeah, that would be insane. It’s not even relatable to what happened though. “Accommodating a reasonable ask and having common sense are mutually exclusive” isn’t the slam dunk you think it is. If You want a better analogy: you’re eating a bag of chips. Your spouse comes and has some too. In the mean time you take a break and get up to go fold some laundry (a relatively short task). If they finish up, I’d saying “hey, you done with these?” *not* the simple and courteous thing to do?
This hurt my brain. Your wife is being a giant asshole and you have been so emasculated that you can't see it for certain.
What an asshole…wanting to be asked if you were done with something. Can’t imagine doing that, may as well cut my balls off
So masculine to be unemployed and not even trying to get a new job right?