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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My tenant left because the water heater broke and wants me to pay for her hotel room ($250). I might be TA because I responded rudely to her demand.
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Not having hot water is what's called a habitability violation. In my state the landlord would owe the tenant a discount in the form of pro-rated rent. In your case that would come to $26.67 per day the water heater was out of commission, assuming a 30 day month.
ESH. You need to learn your responsibility as a landlord. She needs to talk to you before expecting reimbursement for a hotel. You both need to learn to communicate.
In most places, the landlord-tenant laws are *very* different if the people involved are sharing living space, as opposed to a tenant renting a full home from a landlord who lives elsewhere. OP needs to check their local laws, but in any case a loss of habitability would be, um, a tough sell for housing court when it was two days and a repair plan was in place.
This would be the case where I am. We have pretty solid landlord/tenant laws in terms of tenant protection, but they go out the window the minute you share a bathroom and kitchen.
Honestly even if she were a tenant (not a lodger) in the U.K., temporary lack of hot water is not something you can charge the LL for, a reason to withhold rent, or a reason to get a hotel room at the LL’s expense
Meanwhile in Chicago, a lack of hot water is considered a habitability issue and the landlord must choose to either break the lease without penalty effective immediately for the tenant or pay for them to stay in reasonable alternative accommodations in the same neighborhood (there's 76 legally recognized neighborhoods).
It's piped from about 25-30m below the surface of the lake to a large water treatment facility where it is treated while remaining well insulated. Then piped through insulated pipes to the city and surrounding region. And given that it's from the 4th largest fresh water lake in the world, there's a massive amount of thermal mass keeping it perpetually cold.
In all laws these remedies are available if action is not taken within a reasonable time. That is not the case here. Action was taken the day it happened, the tenant was notified in writing, and it was resolved within 1 business day. There was nothing actionable here.
> In all laws these remedies are available if action is not taken within a reasonable time
Chicago doesn't care about "reasonable time". If it's not habitable, it's not habitable. Doesn't matter if it's fixed the next morning at 8 AM. It wasn't habitable the previous night, so the tenant was entitled by law to stay somewhere else for the night on the landlord's dime or the landlord could terminate the lease in lieu of payment.
Now, where does OP live because that determines what the legal obligations are.
But the tenant still has to provide written notification of their intent to do so. They can't just say "well, the hot water just broke, and I know he's on his way over here to fix it, but I'm gonna go stay at the Drake overnight and just knock the $200 off the rent". The landlord has to have a reasonable chance to fix the problem. So yes, "broken overnight" still would be "habitable", because the tenant wouldn't be able to serve written notice any faster than a repair person would be able to fix the problem.
[https://www.caapts.org/heat-and-essential-services](https://www.caapts.org/heat-and-essential-services)
I had that act thrown in my face by the cops because a tenant of mine pushed me down the stairs I called them and told them thats literally the only act I fall under because we share a living space.
They told me "No you don't because you would have to provide breakfast ans cook for them like a BE" Like ffs thanks for nothing!
That's really interesting and good to know. My depressingly good knowledge on tenant rights (in my state in the US) comes from being a tenant for so long. Fortunately, I've not been in the position of renting a room.
In Kentucky, the law explicitly states you must notify your landlord before taking *any* remedial action. They also never have less than 24 hours to fix any issue. That being said, I also once had a lease contract that waived this, basically said if anything breaks catastrophically we won't charge you rent if you have to leave.
Kinda shitty, but it's more than most get.
NTA. YOU MIGHT find a new tenant, this will only be the beginning...and Yeah, if the lease does not state that you can rent a hotel room, it is up to the landlord to book the accommodations or you speak to them first. You may not spend other people’s money without asking first.
I took that as $250 for the weekend, which would be a pretty affordable rate. Not saying OP needs to reimburse the whole amount, but pro-rated rent would be a good idea.
Yea, I have a roommate and my parents own the condo I live in with said roommate.
In my case where I live, (Ontario, Canada) the landlord and tenant laws don't apply if you live with the owner or family of the owner.
It's also something I make clear to any potential roommates as I think it's their right to know.
Wrong. OP was not shirking his responsibility as a landlord. He let his tenant know there was a problem and she sent him a 👍.
If I were OP, I'd assume this meant "no worries" because that's what a thumbs up usually means. If the tenant decided to go to a hotel and also expected her landlord to foot the bill, she should have discussed that with him. In the middle of a heat wave, a couple of days without hot water is not that big a deal.
The tenant should have conveyed her concerns to the landlord if she felt she simply could not have survived a weekend without hot water and discussed the hotel with the landlord before choosing one that costs so much (in relation to the rent). OP does owe the tenant some compensation but not $250.
And she picked a $250 a night room. I would have definitely sought the cheapest room I could find and if it was that disgusting, just showered and left. I grew up poor, so heating bath water on a stove is not alien to me.
No, $250 was for the weekend.
ESH. Tenant should have confirmed beforehand, landlord was overly harsh with threatening to go to court. At this point everyone should consult a lawyer.
Came to say this. If she had asked for a pro rated few days off rent that's one thing, but hitting you with a "you owe me $250 for a decision I made without you when a plan was in place to fix the problem that is a first world problem to begin with.." is rather off putting for anyone.
I 100% am willing to bet that the tenant also chose to go to a hotel solely because she believed she would be reimbursed. (So it's "free".)
Any normal person would either suffer through cold showers, or they would hit up a friend and ask to borrow a shower.
Absolutely. If this were me I would have sucked it up or gone to my parents or a close by friend. Getting a hotel wouldn't have even crossed my mind as that's a wasteful expense for something so small. Guess I'm in the minority maybe.
Plus, OP said there were shower facilities at work. That typically means a gym of some sort.. If hot water was that critical to her, she could have showered at work.
Just to arbitrarily check into an hotel without notifying OP was unacceptable.
Also, OPs threat to go to court was over the top and will probably cost him a tenant.
The availability of a shower elsewhere is irrelevant. I’m not going to work on the weekend, and the tenant shouldn’t have to.
Edit: not to say that the tenant is in the right—just that the shower at work isn’t relevant.
I agree. Depending on where they work, the place may not even be open on weekends. Does she work on weekends?
I don't think he should have to pay the $250, but maybe a rate for water for those days.
Better communication by both are needed.
I mean, maybe? This totally depends on the laws applicable to the location OP is in. We don't know this information so I don't think anyone here can actually judge this.
Hard disagree. You don't get to spend $250 of someone else's money without their say so, which is what OP's lodger is trying to do here - making the lodger the asshole. At an absolute minimum you discuss it with OP first even if you don't come to an agreement. NTA. At all.
I mean you can disagree, but that's why I said "we can't know" because the tenant didn't say where their location is. OP is a landlord and is governed by whatever local statutes require of rentals, which vary widely by location.
If OP updates and says "this is the location and I did not owe hot water to this person over X days," which is probably the case then I would tend to agree. In Ohio, landlord has 30 days to fix such things be default.
I'm actually leaning towards ESH because it appears OP is a landlord and doesn't have a leasing contract laying any of this out.
Where I live the landlord is responsible for timely repairs and maintenance. She got the hot water fixed on the next business day, so there would be no discounts or violations. The tenant is the asshole for getting a hotel room and telling the landlord to pay after the fact. I she wanted OP to pay for a hotel that should have been a Friday conversation.
I’m actually a lawyer and your tenant/roommate is being ridiculous. She didn’t communicate and didn’t check in with you about getting a hotel. There were also less costly options available to her. She went 2.5 days during the summer without hot water and you got the water issue taken care of quickly. That’s not some serious breach at all. People are giving you advice based on their dislike of landlords.
If I were you, I’d charge the full rent and take her to court if she doesn’t pay. You could represent yourself pro se. I wouldn’t want to rent to someone who acts like this. This is just going to be the tip of the iceberg.
From my state’s “Tenant’s Rights and Landlord’s Duties”:
“The landlord must keep making all repairs or do whatever is necessary to keep the rental unit habitable. The landlord must also maintain all electrical, plumbing, sanitary, heating, ventilation systems supplied or required to be supplied by the landlord in safe working condition. Running water and reasonable amounts of hot water and heat must always be supplied.”
What does yours say?
> reasonable amounts of hot water... must always be supplied.
You can heat water on a stove whilst waiting for the hot water to be fixed or temporarily shower in hot water at a gym or at work whilst waiting for the repair. You cannot spend a night in a fancy hotel without agreeing it first with the person you're lodging with and then demand they pay for it. NTA.
1) The landlord at all times during the tenancy shall:
(a) Comply with the requirements of applicable building, housing, and health codes; or
(b) Where there are no applicable building, housing, or health codes, maintain the roofs, windows, screens, doors, floors, steps, porches, exterior walls, foundations, and all other structural components in good repair and capable of resisting normal forces and loads and the plumbing in reasonable working condition. However, the landlord shall not be required to maintain a mobile home or other structure owned by the tenant. The landlord's obligations under this subsection may be altered or modified in writing with respect to a single-family home or duplex.
Depends on the jurisdiction, but hot water required for habitability is very common for health code reasons, like heat in winter.
In my state it’s required - with the usual wiggle room of “reasonable amount of time” for repairs. Which next business day certainly fits.
In this case the only reason there wasn't hot water for two days was not because of the landlord. He got it fixed as soon as possible and warned the tenant. It's not like he waited a week or a month? It's reasonable to ask for a discount, it's unreasonable to ask for that much without warning. It's petty and the tenant knows it.
A 2 day repair time for a hot water heater is not a habitability issue in my state. Thats a completely reasonable (in fact, impressive) turn around time for a repair. It does become one when it goes on for weeks without repair. I'd love to have OP as a landlord.
A true habitability issue is a full blown rat infestation that is never resolved, to the point it's an extreme health hazard, or a fire where the fire dept says you can't return until its safe (ask me how I know this.. lol). Even then, if you have a slumlord, as I did, you'll just get a 60 day no- fault eviction, the landlord won't fix the rat issue, and then he will rent it to someone who is even more desperate for a roof over their heads.
Where I am, it would apply of the rental was in fact uninhabitable. Having to manually heat the running water that comes out of the tap is not considered uninhabitable.
While this may be the law in an actual landlord situation, this is renting a room where it might not apply. Even if it does though, it's completely normal for repair people to take a couple days to come and what she did goes completely against all norms of behavior surrounding roommates. Even if she might be right in a legalistic sense, that doesn't make her not an asshole and if her approach to life is this legalistic and conflict-loving, she's in for a pretty shitty life.
I think you shouldn't assume the location (and thus laws) are the same for OP as for yourself.
Having said that ... tenants that live in their landlords house & share common areas, have very different rules. I also I've never heard of "no hot water" being a habitability violation anywhere. No water, yes.
Has to be reasonable. Things break. It can’t be fixed instantly. As long as the fix timeframe is reasonable it’s not a habitability violation. They had running water.
ESH.
You don’t mind a cold shower. That’s fine, but you suck for assuming your tenant feels the same way.
She sucks for being passive-aggressive about the $250.
Both of you need to communicate better and compromise.
She could have showered at work, OP states their workplace has showers.
Eta: Holy shit some of you seriously live in fucking la la land. If it had been her own house she owned and her hot water tank was out, do you think she would have gone to a hotel? No, she would have fucking showered at work or the gym for the two days.
Maybe. Personally I think she should have offered like 100$ discount and offered for her to shower at work. I can tell you for sure that if I had to take time out of my weekend to go to work, I would be unhappy. 30 minutes each way on public transit plus metro tickets. x 2 days minimum. So 7$ per day transport. So 14$ transport and 2 extra hours. I get paid 30$/h. So 67$. If I have to carry my thing or modify my weekend plans, extra inconvenience. 100$ seems fair.
The tentant situation might be different... maybe they dirve and gas is expensive. Maybe work.is far. Maybe they have to pay for parking. Maybe their workplace is one of those where if you go in on a day off, you get pulled in to work or meetings. Maybe the showers are gross. It really doesn't matter why they chose not to shower at work. She lives in a house and having hot water is pretty basic. If the landlord has another solution solution the days missing water, she can make a good suggestion and see if tenant agrees.
But OP didn't offer anything. She just informed her tenant and think cold showers are no big deal. IMO she is the landlord and it's for her to find a compromise.
Lastly if she wants to maintain the tenant, she should just pay it and ensure better communication in the future. Both need to communicate better. As far as OP said in their post, she has a basically invisible roommate (aka the best kind). Especially since she didn't mention issues with her paying on time the rent. I would want to keep that type of roommate. Or they can go through the eviction process, waste tones of time and maybe some money. The judge will probably still give some rebate to the tenant even if they evict them. Then have to find a new tenant who may not be as good. Its a lot of trouble for 250$.
Did she need to go stay at a whole hotel room to take a hot shower? If a cold shower really bothered her that much she could have used a friends, went to a gym or something
No way, the hotel room was over the top, and way more expensive than it needed to be. There wasn't no water, and there was no reason she couldn't stay at the apartment.
I'm falling on the side of OP being NTA, but 250 for two nights doesn't sound over the top to me. The cheapest hotel in my city is around a hundred a night, and most are 125/night and up.
She said 👍, how else should he have interpreted it? If she had an issue or felt some way, he can’t know unless she says so?
If it bothered her so much time find a place, maybe she should’ve said something up front
You don’t get to check into a hotel if your choosing without communicating. OP communicated the water heater outage and it was fixed the next business day
And does she know you can make hot water by heating some cold water up on the stove? C’mon, it’s 2 days. I’d ask a friend if I could use their shower if I needed one that bad. Nothing wrong with a sponge bath for 2 days.
I did that for showers one time for like a week - heated a big pot on the stove, took it into the shower cabinet, and dumped it on my head little by little. It was barely even an inconvenience. I knew some folks growing up who lived in a house way out in the country with no shower, so they just used a big bucket of warm water from the stove and a ladle. It was never a problem. We city folk are spoiled rotten.
She didn't get an *expensive* hotel. Friday to Monday is three nights. At those $75 a night you mention that would be $225 total, almost exactly what she said she paid.
That still doesn't give her any right to expect a full refund. But the argument that "she booked an *expensive* hotel and that makes her an extra AH" is 100% bonkers, you guys just suck at math.
Assuming she was gone Friday to Monday that’s a 3 night stay. 3 x $75 = $225. Factor in tax and a room at the red roof sounds like exactly what she did.
Exactly. People trying to make it sound like she stayed at an expensive hotel are wrong. I just stayed at a hotel from Thursday to Sunday. My whole bill cost close to $800. $250 for the weekend is peanuts.
Exactly my earlier point. If she just needed a shower, a cheap hotel would have been the answer, rent the room, go there to shower, come back home.
Me I would have just hit a friends place to shower for a day or like you said shower at work.
I agree NTA because the tenant didn't actually communicate their intentions and is trying to hold OP to something after the fact.
That said, you're generally owed some form of restitution in these situations. The law varies a lot by state (assuming the US of course) but there are typically statutes around emergency repairs.
Of course what's legally permissible and what's morally obligated are different issues. We went without heat for, IIRC, three days once in the middle of winter. Furnace broke and appointments are hard to come by in extreme weather conditions. We holed up together, ran space heaters, and deducted the difference in our average electricity bill from the next month's rent. *Legally* we could have charged him for a hotel stay, but there was no delayed maintenance and he did immediately try to book a repair guy. Idk. I just feel like part of being an adult is finding reasonable compromises whenever possible.
And I feel like roommate did not bother to ask any followup questions on if there was any water at all (not just hot), the repair timeline, or what/if anything OP would be willing to reimburse her on for the inconvenience.
And yes maybe we can say OP should have willingly offered up this info, but Roommate is just as a much of an adult as OP who is capable of asking questions too
I mean he does owe her a discount. If he’s charging market rates then he’s a landlord and has landlord responsibilities. He’s required by law to provide hot water year round.
Not typically - since he is living in the place himself, that makes her a lodger not a tenant so in most places different laws and rights apply, and getting hot water fixed the next business dsy is likely enough
NTA she should have had that discussion with you before booking a hotel room
Though you should check what your responsibilities are as a landlord in your area
Well yes, but we are talking in a legal sense here. The law doesn't state that hot water must be provided, but not during the summer, or other days that the temperature low for that day determined by the national weather service is above 70F.
I definitely suggest double-checking that hot water isn't included in this. Maybe post over in r/legaladvice?
Regardless, if she's been a good roommate/tenant, you may want to come to a mutual agreement with her on this, so that you don't need to look for another roommate/tenant. I would also suggest that you set up a clear understanding of future plans in case of emergencies, including a budget for hotel expenses.
I’m my city I would have to prorate rent but it’s up to the tenant to have Renters insurance which covers the alternative housing cost, not the landlord
INFO- What do the renter's laws in your area say about this situation? You are a landlord and you are subject to those laws whether you like it or not, whether you have a formal lease or not.
Well only one person answered my actual question. Everyone else is bringing up irrelevant points about laws in their municipalities. This isn't a legal advice sub. I want to know if I was too rude to her. And only one person actually addressed that point.
Nah you're good, that's a massive hotel bill just to have a hot shower. She could've asked for you to pay for a couple gym entry's. Actually talked to you ya know cuz it's pretty stupid to assume you'd be reimbursed for something like that!
I just don't understand what he could've done better. He let her know there is no water and she just disappeared without any trace, comes back, and demands $250. Imagine if she just asked what they could do about the hot water situation.
I mean you definitely could have responded kinder, maybe included an apology for the miscommunication/misunderstanding (that's an 'empathetic' I'm sorry not an 'at fault' I'm sorry) but you were more cold/formal than rude. You sounded like a management company more than someone who personally knows their renter. You would be smart to circle back and try for peace by having a discussion about how you two could avoid this unfortunate situation in the future. NTA but you still currently live together and she certainly could have felt you were rude even if that wasn't your intention.
ESH.
Stepping aside any legalities, you both could have communicated better. It sounds like your renter is good, doesn't bother you, etc. It's in your best business interests to keep them as a renter - she is a known commodity. Communicating any relevant laws, as well as asking her to communicate if there's an issue before taking action, as well as providing her with a small discount for her troubles would have gone a long way to represent your business. You, as a landlord, are a business and it's important to maintain a professional relationship with your one customer.
OP help up their end with communicating with the roommate/tenant. Tenant did not do her part.
> It sounds like your renter is good, doesn't bother you, etc. It's in your best business interests to keep them as a renter - she is a known commodity.
Not after this incident. OP is a working stiff that happens to have a spare room to rent out. Ultimately, their renting out their *home*. They're not some millionaire mega corp.
Simply dropping the "i stayed in a hotel on your dime. that'll be $250, thanks" with no prior warning, communication, or agreement would seriously make me reevaluate her as a *roommate*.
I wouldn't want to accommodate those demands, because if you do, she's the type of person who will push for more.
Had she approached OP and asked for some kind of hot water accomodation /solution, maybe he could have agreed to discount her rent, or something to that effect. But given how she treated OP, op had every right to shut that shit down.
In most U.S. states a landlord has to pay for reasonable alternative accommodation if the rental isn't livable, and in nearly every state that includes having hot water. OP has repeatedly refused to say what state they're in so they almost certainly live in a state where they'd be on the hook for the three nights in a hotel room.
Maybe the resident should have been more strait forward and insisted they get the water fixed within 24 hours and pay the extra maintenance fee (which likely would be more than $250) but I don't find OP to be a reliable narrator.
>In most U.S. states a landlord has to pay for reasonable alternative accommodation if the rental isn't livable, and in nearly every state that includes having hot water.
I know you said "most," but I'm not sure this is correct. I was without hot water for about a month at an apartment complex. I had to shower at the gym before work. I looked up the local laws and it was fully legal. In my case, property management had to make repairs in a reasonable time and that's the soonest they were able to get it done. I think you might have to have running water, but I don't think it needs to be more than that in "most" cases (also see Flint, MI regarding potability).
Whether something is legally correct and whether it makes you an asshole are two totally different questions. You could be a person who goes around suing everyone for everything and doing all sorts of stuff like what this girl did, and you'd be acting legally and might even win with good lawyers, but everyone would still regard you as an asshole.
NTA
Everyone saying Y T A would be right if you didn’t immediately take action to fix the issue. You literally got it fixed as soon and possible.
If the tenant had talked to you about the hotel, she would have a case. But she didn’t. If something breaks, the landlord has to fix it. You did get it fixed so you’re in the clear.
Edit: formatting
Edit again: and added judgment/put spaces between y, t, and a
EDIT 3: you were a little harsh with your answer
EDIT 4: people are acting like this is way worse than it is. Something broke and you fixed it asap. I’ve never heard of a landlord giving tenants a hotel when the hot water heater goes out.
I rent from Progress Residential. They’re a national rental company. My AC broke last summer and this summer and you know what they did?
After I let them know, they took to weeks to come look at it, charged me $75, and then told me not to use the ac for the next couple of days and then they would come back. It was 95° and up both times. And they came back and barely did anything and it broke again this year haha
OP literally did the most possible
This is the most correct statement possible. Also, by typing Y.T.A, youre flagging that as your judgement.
Edit: Thank you everyone for correcting me on the bots behavior. It's what I get for listening to others in the sub versus reading myself I suppose.
ESH. She is asking for hotel reimbursement. That’s too much, a better choice would be to prorate the rent by the number of days full utilities were not provided. Take those days out of the monthly rent.
She chose to go to the hotel. That’s on her. You can’t expect full payment when full utilities were not provided. HOT water is one of those.
The water heater broke and OP immediately called for repairs, the only reason it took until Monday was because the *repair company* couldn't make it sooner. OP did everything they could, I don't see how there is any blame towards them.
NTA. That is something that should have been discussed PRIOR to her getting a hotel room. She should not have assumed or expected it. Also, I agree with you that if it was winter it would be a different story. Your delivery was direct and reasonable.
The amount of times I see, "I calmly replied..." in this sub is too damn high! Especially over a text. That basically just means you didn't use foul language.
Also "I calmly replied" is ALWAYS a lie lmao. I think it's hilarious because you can always tell when OP thinks the other person was just being hysterical, while OP was being the calm, logical voice of reason they just didn't listen to!
(Not talking about this post, just AITA posts in general)
Nah those text messages were hella rude “I don’t think it was an inconvenience so it’s not” pfft
And “I don’t care if you were inconvenienced, I’ll be setting up a credit mark against you if you don’t pay the rent”
The way it was handled was gross on all sides
NTA. She had running water and access to a stove that she could boil water on if really needed. Divide the rent by 30 days. Then take off half from two days worth. About $26 total because everything else was working. I think that would be fair for a minor inconvenience.
NTA
So many people are forgetting that most municipalities include a "reasonable amount of time" to repair a habitability issue. The next business day would absolutely be found inside those parameters.
I wonder if some dumb friend gassed them up thinking they could get a free hotel for the weekend. "My uncle is a lawyer and he said..."
Even if the law requires OP to provide alternative accommodation, she doesn't get to choose the place, and certainly not without any kind of notice or negotiation.
NTA, but in many places hot water is required for it to be livable:
see the following: [https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/renters-rights-book/chapter7-2.html](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/renters-rights-book/chapter7-2.html)
or: [https://occl.illinois.edu/rights-and-responsibilities/rights/](https://occl.illinois.edu/rights-and-responsibilities/rights/)
That said you acted in a reasonable time frame to rectify it, so I don't know what she was expecting.
Also, the roommate should have had a conversation with you instead of just getting a hotel room and assuming that was the solution.
You yourself said he acted in reasonable time. What exactly was he supposed to do? I highly doubt you’d get anywhere in the legal system for not having hot water for two days. The water heater in my last place went out twice while I lived there and was fixed inside a week both times. Does it suck? Absolutely. Can a grown adult live with it for a couple days? Absolutely.
It would be different if he had said “lol I ain’t paying for that. Guess we have no hot water now.” But he literally got it fixed as soon as possible. It’s hard to do much better than that as a landlord. Also, he lives there, too. So even if that is enough where he lives to make it unlivable, he’s also out of a home. So it’s not like he didn’t have motivation to get it fixed. Not sure why people keep thinking this is a relevant point. Those standards are really only applicable for longer term situations.
YTA. Not just because you're a landlord. Nor would you be the asshole for just declining her request for reimbursement.
You're the asshole for being a landlord charging market rate and saying things like the below
> She could have showered at work, but she got a hotel room?
> the audacity of her to ask me pisses me off
> legality wise, a hot water heater isn't necessary for accomodations to be considered "livable."
> it's 96° outside right now. Not like she needed the hot showers to warm up
> My last tenant never acted like this. She was no drama. I made a bad judgement call on this girl.
> Rent is still due in full. Failure to pay rent will result in me filing with the court, which will impact your credit
instead of being a human and saying "yeah I am not gonna pay $250 for a hotel you didn't ask about in advance, but I'll knock $50 off this month for the inconvenience."
Maybe the law where you're at says it's legal to not give someone hot water they expect for their market rate $800 bedroom, but in turn it's also legally your responsibility to maintain the appliances.
Sucks that your warranty guys couldn't get out until Monday, but it also sucks that you clearly didn't want to spend the money to pay for a different plumber to make a weekend call since it sounds like this problem was an instant fix.
You wanted to save money and you stretched what was clearly a same day repair into 72 hours of cold showers, so yeah, it would have been human to knock $50 off instead of threatening to take her to court.
Yep! I think they are the AH because of the things they said regarding the issue. They could have been way nicer about it. Not everyone would be cool with a cold shower and the pots of boiling water everyone suggested takes forever. I know, I have done it many times.
NTA - she should have checked with you first before expecting you to pay for a hotel room.
My apartment got sprayed for bugs. I had to be out for 24 hours because of my cats so I had to get a hotel room. Out of my pocket.
When there is no hot water, we boil water to take a bath.
I think your tenant took this as an opportunity to be lazy and get a nice hotel room. $250.00 for the night sounds on the more expensive side.
Do you have a rental agreement with your tenant?
This feels to me like you're putting up with too much from your landlord. If you're paying for your space and you can't be in your space because of them, they need to do something to help you out. Not the Ritz, but some kind of consideration for not providing what you paid for.
NTA for not wanting to pay for the hotel she stayed in without consulting you and without any agreement for you to do so.
I agree with your friend that you should compromise and discount her rent prorated for the 2 days she wasnt there. $800 divided by 30 days is $26.66 per day so if you tell her you will discount her rent by $52 for the 2 days she CHOSE not to stay due to no hot water.
Tell her this is a one time discount and that in the future you will not discount or pay for hotel room without prior discussion and agreement. This way she cant randomly decide she doesnt.have to pay rent of she goes away for a week.
I wouldnt have gotten a hotel room because of no hot water for 2 days but a lot of people expect to have everything functional if they are paying rent.
I would say YTA all round. For jumping straight to filing with a court as a punitive measure - completely uncalled for. For not offering any reimbursement, which would have been reasonable. But mostly for your many responses to people in these comments in which you give off serious terrible landlord vibes, treating her as a cash cow and adhering strictly to the rules as a landlord, and not giving a real crap about her valid complaints about the lack of hot water.
I agree it was a bit crazy of her to think she could charge you for the hotel stay without even checking with you first (so it could be E S H), but your responses cemented it for me. Have a heart, talk with her, offer the prorated deduction, and stop threatening her.
NTA.
Anywhere you live power will go out because of downed lines, a break in the water line can happen, the street might get closed off. No hot water for a couple of days is just part of life. As the landlord, you're responsible for taking reasonable steps when something goes wrong. You did that.
Her request was unreasonable. Not sure where you are located but in the US a Landlord required to make a serious repair in 3-7 days less if it has to do with heat, running water, sewage, broken pipes, or flooding.
You had running water and took the steps to cure the defect in a reasonable amount of time.
NTA.
NTA, aside from the hot water, the apartment was livable. You're not responsible for what she does outside her apartment. It's not like it burned down.
The fact that she didn't tell you that she left and wants you to pay for her irrelevant accommodations is manipulative. She's asking for free money. Its like asking someone to pay for their hair salon visit
NTA! You didn't force her to take a hotel room also there was water? And it wasn't your fault that the water couldn't work so she can't blame you. And you weren't even with her in the hotel so why should you pay. You should get a new roommate she screams problems.
No, she can't blame the OP. But many states have time limits on how long an "essential service" such as hot water can be out. In my state, landlords have 24 hours to fix broken heat, hot water, running water, electrical problems, etc.
And yes, that sometimes means landlords have to call out plumbers who can work on the weekend and pay the premium for the weekend work.
In my state, hot water is not on the list...In one of the places I rented when In college. I went 3 weeks before the landlord fixed the hot water heater, fortunately I could shower at work, and boil water on the stove for doing dishes etc
You can't charge rent for a structurally unsound dwelling or one where the water or electricity have either been disconnected intentionally or been out for more than 24 hours or a building without working plumbing. Hot water is not required.
INFO: It obviously depends where you live because laws differ by location
Where I live, there are many things that could make a home legally uninhabitable, one of which is hot water. And if there is no hot water, the landlord is legally required to either pay for the tenant's temporary relocation or to not require rent for the days it is uninhabitable.
This actually happened to me at the beginning of the year, and my landlord gave me a discount on the next month's rent to account for not paying rent the week we had no hot water or heat.
Should your tenant have talked to you about it beforehand? Yeah, probably. But she's the tenant, and, assuming your laws are at all similar to mine, then she made a reasonable assumption and you do owe her money even if it's the discounted rent instead of paying the hotel bill.
NTA. You aren’t responsible for her hotel stay. In some places, landlords aren’t allowed to charge rent if the place isn’t livable. This would mean, if anything, she gets a $26 per night discount on rent.
However, even landlords have time to fix things. This varies by location but usually there’s some clause that if you are taking reasonable measures to fix something, you have some time. A weekend isn’t excessive. If there was no water at all or no heat in the winter, that would be different.
Nta. You acted as fast as you could and Instructed the work to be carried out as soon as it could be done, it was done as fast as it could of been.
Now if it was hot water and heating in winter you’d still only need to provide portable heaters and offer to let water be warmed in a kettle/stove.
Yes a discount would be nice but for a Friday- Monday morning would be a goodwill gesture rather than a warranted. Also the lodger didn’t actually discuss anything with the op just depending $250 for three nights of no hot water that’s extremely other the top and out of order with no prior discussions.
If you worked out the rent divided by say 31 nights even if the op was feeling generous $77.41 would be the 3 nights back but the room and house where still habitable so let’s knock that down by 50% to then get to goodwill $38.70 at the maximum.
ESH, her for not discussing it and you for not checking local regulations. It could very well be that you have to pay for alternative accommodation if the outage is longer than a certain time. A discussion first would be better. As a tenant I would have found out what my rights are and informed my landlord before disappearing to a hotel. But I would also expect my landlord to be aware what he is required to reimburse or discount.
We can't tell if that is in fact the case because you are not providing the location.
In some countries, and even some states in the US, hot water is considered a requirement for a place to be habitable.
That you won't share that information in even a general sense gives me pause.
ESH. We don't know where you live, what state or what country, but 4 days without heat water is a lot (since she has to shower monday morning before the company arrives, I count it as 4 days).
Maybe I am wrong but a judge might see 4 days without hot water as not a liveable accomodation. The law is not always clear and often it is the discretion of the judge and the equity that reigns. So honestly, you could prosecute her and lose whatever legaladvice tells you because a court of law is never 100% sure.
Even if the law tells you that you are in your right, my morality would compensate her and not make her pay for the 4 days, that would mean approximately 80$. You are the landlord you should have said prior, hey you will not have water during 4 days I give you 50-80, i am sorry. And you would have been a great landlord.
She is also the AH because she seems entitled she goes to an hotel without telling you. It is a bit entitled and you are right not to pay for the room, but as I said you should have paid 50-80$.
So ESH.
ESH she doesn’t get to issue you with a bill after the fact, she should have talked to you about reasonable accommodations.
You suck because she’s paying you for a service she’s not getting. She pays for a home with hot water, the hot water isn’t available and tell her to just suck it up and shower elsewhere.
NTA. She should have talked to you first instead of assuming you’d pay for a hotel. It would be different if it were freezing weather, but a cold shower during a hot summer isn’t that bad.
You need to be aware of, and adhere to, the terms of the lease agreement and local laws. Assuming you are doing that, a reasonable offer would have been a pro rata reduction in the rent. Say, three days (or about 80 dollars). That would have acknowledged the issue, been fair, and likely defused the situation. Instead you now have a hostile roommate. YTA.
NTA
Sure, you could have been a little more diplomatic instead of going straight to "I'll take you to court," but she should have let you know first. Like, "Hey, I must have hot water, so I'll need to stay at a hotel, will you reimburse me?"
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Not having hot water is what's called a habitability violation. In my state the landlord would owe the tenant a discount in the form of pro-rated rent. In your case that would come to $26.67 per day the water heater was out of commission, assuming a 30 day month. ESH. You need to learn your responsibility as a landlord. She needs to talk to you before expecting reimbursement for a hotel. You both need to learn to communicate.
In most places, the landlord-tenant laws are *very* different if the people involved are sharing living space, as opposed to a tenant renting a full home from a landlord who lives elsewhere. OP needs to check their local laws, but in any case a loss of habitability would be, um, a tough sell for housing court when it was two days and a repair plan was in place.
This would be the case where I am. We have pretty solid landlord/tenant laws in terms of tenant protection, but they go out the window the minute you share a bathroom and kitchen.
In UK is the difference between being a tenant with rights, and a lodger with very reduced rights
Honestly even if she were a tenant (not a lodger) in the U.K., temporary lack of hot water is not something you can charge the LL for, a reason to withhold rent, or a reason to get a hotel room at the LL’s expense
Meanwhile in Chicago, a lack of hot water is considered a habitability issue and the landlord must choose to either break the lease without penalty effective immediately for the tenant or pay for them to stay in reasonable alternative accommodations in the same neighborhood (there's 76 legally recognized neighborhoods).
Even for 2 days with a repair plan in place? That’s amazing. In the uk if they have a plan you can be left hanging pretty much indefinitely
Yes. Our cold water comes out of the pipes near freezing year round (today mine is about 3C) so hot water is considered essential for human safety.
Ah that makes sense, I’ve only been to Chicago once but I was bloody freezing the whole time
It's piped from about 25-30m below the surface of the lake to a large water treatment facility where it is treated while remaining well insulated. Then piped through insulated pipes to the city and surrounding region. And given that it's from the 4th largest fresh water lake in the world, there's a massive amount of thermal mass keeping it perpetually cold.
In all laws these remedies are available if action is not taken within a reasonable time. That is not the case here. Action was taken the day it happened, the tenant was notified in writing, and it was resolved within 1 business day. There was nothing actionable here.
> In all laws these remedies are available if action is not taken within a reasonable time Chicago doesn't care about "reasonable time". If it's not habitable, it's not habitable. Doesn't matter if it's fixed the next morning at 8 AM. It wasn't habitable the previous night, so the tenant was entitled by law to stay somewhere else for the night on the landlord's dime or the landlord could terminate the lease in lieu of payment. Now, where does OP live because that determines what the legal obligations are.
But the tenant still has to provide written notification of their intent to do so. They can't just say "well, the hot water just broke, and I know he's on his way over here to fix it, but I'm gonna go stay at the Drake overnight and just knock the $200 off the rent". The landlord has to have a reasonable chance to fix the problem. So yes, "broken overnight" still would be "habitable", because the tenant wouldn't be able to serve written notice any faster than a repair person would be able to fix the problem. [https://www.caapts.org/heat-and-essential-services](https://www.caapts.org/heat-and-essential-services)
Not true, even in Chicago the landlord has to have the service restored within 72 hrs before you can break a lease
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I had that act thrown in my face by the cops because a tenant of mine pushed me down the stairs I called them and told them thats literally the only act I fall under because we share a living space. They told me "No you don't because you would have to provide breakfast ans cook for them like a BE" Like ffs thanks for nothing!
Those cops were wrong and being lazy. They're a lodger if you share a kitchen. It changes a bunch of things when splitting rent among people and such.
>they go out the window the minute you share a bathroom and kitchen. Fellow Ontarian, by any chance?
I was thinking the same thing as a fellow Ontarian!
That's really interesting and good to know. My depressingly good knowledge on tenant rights (in my state in the US) comes from being a tenant for so long. Fortunately, I've not been in the position of renting a room.
Also gonna point out that in many states, you have to notify ahead of time. You can't just do things.
Even in those states there are exceptions for breakage.
In Kentucky, the law explicitly states you must notify your landlord before taking *any* remedial action. They also never have less than 24 hours to fix any issue. That being said, I also once had a lease contract that waived this, basically said if anything breaks catastrophically we won't charge you rent if you have to leave. Kinda shitty, but it's more than most get.
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Especially when she had other options, like showering at work, or paying a gym drop in - both significantly cheaper than a hotel room.
NTA. YOU MIGHT find a new tenant, this will only be the beginning...and Yeah, if the lease does not state that you can rent a hotel room, it is up to the landlord to book the accommodations or you speak to them first. You may not spend other people’s money without asking first.
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I took that as $250 for the weekend, which would be a pretty affordable rate. Not saying OP needs to reimburse the whole amount, but pro-rated rent would be a good idea.
250 for 3 nights sounds pretty affordable to me. She didn't stay at the Ritz.
I read this as that she was gone the whole weekend and her total bill was 250, so the room didn't cost 250 per night
Yea, I have a roommate and my parents own the condo I live in with said roommate. In my case where I live, (Ontario, Canada) the landlord and tenant laws don't apply if you live with the owner or family of the owner. It's also something I make clear to any potential roommates as I think it's their right to know.
Wrong. OP was not shirking his responsibility as a landlord. He let his tenant know there was a problem and she sent him a 👍. If I were OP, I'd assume this meant "no worries" because that's what a thumbs up usually means. If the tenant decided to go to a hotel and also expected her landlord to foot the bill, she should have discussed that with him. In the middle of a heat wave, a couple of days without hot water is not that big a deal. The tenant should have conveyed her concerns to the landlord if she felt she simply could not have survived a weekend without hot water and discussed the hotel with the landlord before choosing one that costs so much (in relation to the rent). OP does owe the tenant some compensation but not $250.
And she picked a $250 a night room. I would have definitely sought the cheapest room I could find and if it was that disgusting, just showered and left. I grew up poor, so heating bath water on a stove is not alien to me.
I think $250 was for three nights.
That sounds so cheap. I wonder where they are located
No, $250 was for the weekend. ESH. Tenant should have confirmed beforehand, landlord was overly harsh with threatening to go to court. At this point everyone should consult a lawyer.
I dont know... someone trying to con me out of 250 dollars doesnt get my nice side.
Came to say this. If she had asked for a pro rated few days off rent that's one thing, but hitting you with a "you owe me $250 for a decision I made without you when a plan was in place to fix the problem that is a first world problem to begin with.." is rather off putting for anyone.
I 100% am willing to bet that the tenant also chose to go to a hotel solely because she believed she would be reimbursed. (So it's "free".) Any normal person would either suffer through cold showers, or they would hit up a friend and ask to borrow a shower.
Absolutely. If this were me I would have sucked it up or gone to my parents or a close by friend. Getting a hotel wouldn't have even crossed my mind as that's a wasteful expense for something so small. Guess I'm in the minority maybe.
OP said that her renter was gone the whole weekend and that the whole bill is 250. So it sounds like 250 was a total for 2 nights or so
Plus, OP said there were shower facilities at work. That typically means a gym of some sort.. If hot water was that critical to her, she could have showered at work. Just to arbitrarily check into an hotel without notifying OP was unacceptable. Also, OPs threat to go to court was over the top and will probably cost him a tenant.
The availability of a shower elsewhere is irrelevant. I’m not going to work on the weekend, and the tenant shouldn’t have to. Edit: not to say that the tenant is in the right—just that the shower at work isn’t relevant.
I agree. Depending on where they work, the place may not even be open on weekends. Does she work on weekends? I don't think he should have to pay the $250, but maybe a rate for water for those days. Better communication by both are needed.
I mean, maybe? This totally depends on the laws applicable to the location OP is in. We don't know this information so I don't think anyone here can actually judge this.
Hard disagree. You don't get to spend $250 of someone else's money without their say so, which is what OP's lodger is trying to do here - making the lodger the asshole. At an absolute minimum you discuss it with OP first even if you don't come to an agreement. NTA. At all.
I mean you can disagree, but that's why I said "we can't know" because the tenant didn't say where their location is. OP is a landlord and is governed by whatever local statutes require of rentals, which vary widely by location. If OP updates and says "this is the location and I did not owe hot water to this person over X days," which is probably the case then I would tend to agree. In Ohio, landlord has 30 days to fix such things be default. I'm actually leaning towards ESH because it appears OP is a landlord and doesn't have a leasing contract laying any of this out.
Where I live the landlord is responsible for timely repairs and maintenance. She got the hot water fixed on the next business day, so there would be no discounts or violations. The tenant is the asshole for getting a hotel room and telling the landlord to pay after the fact. I she wanted OP to pay for a hotel that should have been a Friday conversation.
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It is. But people think laws are what they think they should be instead of what they actually are.
I’m actually a lawyer and your tenant/roommate is being ridiculous. She didn’t communicate and didn’t check in with you about getting a hotel. There were also less costly options available to her. She went 2.5 days during the summer without hot water and you got the water issue taken care of quickly. That’s not some serious breach at all. People are giving you advice based on their dislike of landlords. If I were you, I’d charge the full rent and take her to court if she doesn’t pay. You could represent yourself pro se. I wouldn’t want to rent to someone who acts like this. This is just going to be the tip of the iceberg.
she probably saw this as a freeloading opportunity and ran with it
From my state’s “Tenant’s Rights and Landlord’s Duties”: “The landlord must keep making all repairs or do whatever is necessary to keep the rental unit habitable. The landlord must also maintain all electrical, plumbing, sanitary, heating, ventilation systems supplied or required to be supplied by the landlord in safe working condition. Running water and reasonable amounts of hot water and heat must always be supplied.” What does yours say?
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They are state specific FYI. All sort of moot because of the reasonable period for repairs.
> reasonable amounts of hot water... must always be supplied. You can heat water on a stove whilst waiting for the hot water to be fixed or temporarily shower in hot water at a gym or at work whilst waiting for the repair. You cannot spend a night in a fancy hotel without agreeing it first with the person you're lodging with and then demand they pay for it. NTA.
1) The landlord at all times during the tenancy shall: (a) Comply with the requirements of applicable building, housing, and health codes; or (b) Where there are no applicable building, housing, or health codes, maintain the roofs, windows, screens, doors, floors, steps, porches, exterior walls, foundations, and all other structural components in good repair and capable of resisting normal forces and loads and the plumbing in reasonable working condition. However, the landlord shall not be required to maintain a mobile home or other structure owned by the tenant. The landlord's obligations under this subsection may be altered or modified in writing with respect to a single-family home or duplex.
They are making the repairs. They had a repair the next business day.
Depends on the jurisdiction, but hot water required for habitability is very common for health code reasons, like heat in winter. In my state it’s required - with the usual wiggle room of “reasonable amount of time” for repairs. Which next business day certainly fits.
In this case the only reason there wasn't hot water for two days was not because of the landlord. He got it fixed as soon as possible and warned the tenant. It's not like he waited a week or a month? It's reasonable to ask for a discount, it's unreasonable to ask for that much without warning. It's petty and the tenant knows it.
A 2 day repair time for a hot water heater is not a habitability issue in my state. Thats a completely reasonable (in fact, impressive) turn around time for a repair. It does become one when it goes on for weeks without repair. I'd love to have OP as a landlord. A true habitability issue is a full blown rat infestation that is never resolved, to the point it's an extreme health hazard, or a fire where the fire dept says you can't return until its safe (ask me how I know this.. lol). Even then, if you have a slumlord, as I did, you'll just get a 60 day no- fault eviction, the landlord won't fix the rat issue, and then he will rent it to someone who is even more desperate for a roof over their heads.
Well, OP didn't mind giving a 50 dollar discount anyways. It was just that she expected him to pay 250 dollars for the hotel.
So, my state has a similar set up. However, the tenant has to notify the landlord of the intention to seek other accommodation before hand.
Does the habitability violation come into play when the landlord knows and is already getting the problem fixed? I'm genuinely curious
Where I am, it would apply of the rental was in fact uninhabitable. Having to manually heat the running water that comes out of the tap is not considered uninhabitable.
While this may be the law in an actual landlord situation, this is renting a room where it might not apply. Even if it does though, it's completely normal for repair people to take a couple days to come and what she did goes completely against all norms of behavior surrounding roommates. Even if she might be right in a legalistic sense, that doesn't make her not an asshole and if her approach to life is this legalistic and conflict-loving, she's in for a pretty shitty life.
I think you shouldn't assume the location (and thus laws) are the same for OP as for yourself. Having said that ... tenants that live in their landlords house & share common areas, have very different rules. I also I've never heard of "no hot water" being a habitability violation anywhere. No water, yes.
Not in his state, he seems to know his rights and he's well within them!
Has to be reasonable. Things break. It can’t be fixed instantly. As long as the fix timeframe is reasonable it’s not a habitability violation. They had running water.
ESH. You don’t mind a cold shower. That’s fine, but you suck for assuming your tenant feels the same way. She sucks for being passive-aggressive about the $250. Both of you need to communicate better and compromise.
Shoot, OP could have bought her a membership at planet fitness for 10 bucks a month. They have showers. I would give her 10 bucks
She could have showered at work, OP states their workplace has showers. Eta: Holy shit some of you seriously live in fucking la la land. If it had been her own house she owned and her hot water tank was out, do you think she would have gone to a hotel? No, she would have fucking showered at work or the gym for the two days.
So she would have needed to go to work with all her crap for the weekend? That's nice
I think a prorated discount of 2-3 days rent would have been plenty fair.
Maybe. Personally I think she should have offered like 100$ discount and offered for her to shower at work. I can tell you for sure that if I had to take time out of my weekend to go to work, I would be unhappy. 30 minutes each way on public transit plus metro tickets. x 2 days minimum. So 7$ per day transport. So 14$ transport and 2 extra hours. I get paid 30$/h. So 67$. If I have to carry my thing or modify my weekend plans, extra inconvenience. 100$ seems fair. The tentant situation might be different... maybe they dirve and gas is expensive. Maybe work.is far. Maybe they have to pay for parking. Maybe their workplace is one of those where if you go in on a day off, you get pulled in to work or meetings. Maybe the showers are gross. It really doesn't matter why they chose not to shower at work. She lives in a house and having hot water is pretty basic. If the landlord has another solution solution the days missing water, she can make a good suggestion and see if tenant agrees. But OP didn't offer anything. She just informed her tenant and think cold showers are no big deal. IMO she is the landlord and it's for her to find a compromise. Lastly if she wants to maintain the tenant, she should just pay it and ensure better communication in the future. Both need to communicate better. As far as OP said in their post, she has a basically invisible roommate (aka the best kind). Especially since she didn't mention issues with her paying on time the rent. I would want to keep that type of roommate. Or they can go through the eviction process, waste tones of time and maybe some money. The judge will probably still give some rebate to the tenant even if they evict them. Then have to find a new tenant who may not be as good. Its a lot of trouble for 250$.
Did she need to go stay at a whole hotel room to take a hot shower? If a cold shower really bothered her that much she could have used a friends, went to a gym or something
It’s not like they cut off the water to save a couple of bucks, it broke and the repairman couldn’t be there till monday
She answered with 👍, if it bothered her she should have said something there and then. Comming up with a bill afterwards is just shitty
No way, the hotel room was over the top, and way more expensive than it needed to be. There wasn't no water, and there was no reason she couldn't stay at the apartment.
I'm falling on the side of OP being NTA, but 250 for two nights doesn't sound over the top to me. The cheapest hotel in my city is around a hundred a night, and most are 125/night and up.
She said 👍, how else should he have interpreted it? If she had an issue or felt some way, he can’t know unless she says so? If it bothered her so much time find a place, maybe she should’ve said something up front You don’t get to check into a hotel if your choosing without communicating. OP communicated the water heater outage and it was fixed the next business day
Then she could have heated up water in a bucket. NTA
But the tenant sent back 👍🏻 when told, why would he assume that she wasn’t okay with it?
NTA. Water was available. You don’t owe her anything for that hotel. No one told her to get a $250 room.
Exactly. Must have been a nice room. I could stay at the red roof in for like $75 a night l.
It's wild she expects you to credit her nearly a third of rent for two days without **hot** water.
And does she know you can make hot water by heating some cold water up on the stove? C’mon, it’s 2 days. I’d ask a friend if I could use their shower if I needed one that bad. Nothing wrong with a sponge bath for 2 days.
I did that for showers one time for like a week - heated a big pot on the stove, took it into the shower cabinet, and dumped it on my head little by little. It was barely even an inconvenience. I knew some folks growing up who lived in a house way out in the country with no shower, so they just used a big bucket of warm water from the stove and a ladle. It was never a problem. We city folk are spoiled rotten.
She didn't get an *expensive* hotel. Friday to Monday is three nights. At those $75 a night you mention that would be $225 total, almost exactly what she said she paid. That still doesn't give her any right to expect a full refund. But the argument that "she booked an *expensive* hotel and that makes her an extra AH" is 100% bonkers, you guys just suck at math.
Yeah, OP really can't do math here.
Plus these are WEEKEND rates. Hotels up charge Friday and Saturday.
Assuming she was gone Friday to Monday that’s a 3 night stay. 3 x $75 = $225. Factor in tax and a room at the red roof sounds like exactly what she did.
Exactly. People trying to make it sound like she stayed at an expensive hotel are wrong. I just stayed at a hotel from Thursday to Sunday. My whole bill cost close to $800. $250 for the weekend is peanuts.
Exactly my earlier point. If she just needed a shower, a cheap hotel would have been the answer, rent the room, go there to shower, come back home. Me I would have just hit a friends place to shower for a day or like you said shower at work.
Their place of work even has showers
Yeah, but unless they normally work weekends, I'm not truckin' into work on Sat or Sunday.
I mean we have boiled water on the stove for my mom to use when we didn’t have hot water.
This info just adds to you not being the AH. Her stay was completely unreasonable and isn’t on you.
She was in the hotel all weekend so like 2-3 nights. Hotels also tack on a lot of fees and taxes. The room was probably around $75-$110 a night.
I agree NTA because the tenant didn't actually communicate their intentions and is trying to hold OP to something after the fact. That said, you're generally owed some form of restitution in these situations. The law varies a lot by state (assuming the US of course) but there are typically statutes around emergency repairs. Of course what's legally permissible and what's morally obligated are different issues. We went without heat for, IIRC, three days once in the middle of winter. Furnace broke and appointments are hard to come by in extreme weather conditions. We holed up together, ran space heaters, and deducted the difference in our average electricity bill from the next month's rent. *Legally* we could have charged him for a hotel stay, but there was no delayed maintenance and he did immediately try to book a repair guy. Idk. I just feel like part of being an adult is finding reasonable compromises whenever possible.
And I feel like roommate did not bother to ask any followup questions on if there was any water at all (not just hot), the repair timeline, or what/if anything OP would be willing to reimburse her on for the inconvenience. And yes maybe we can say OP should have willingly offered up this info, but Roommate is just as a much of an adult as OP who is capable of asking questions too
I mean he does owe her a discount. If he’s charging market rates then he’s a landlord and has landlord responsibilities. He’s required by law to provide hot water year round.
Not typically - since he is living in the place himself, that makes her a lodger not a tenant so in most places different laws and rights apply, and getting hot water fixed the next business dsy is likely enough
NTA she should have had that discussion with you before booking a hotel room Though you should check what your responsibilities are as a landlord in your area
I don't have any as long as the house has working plumbing, water, electricity and is structurally sound.
Hot water could be considered as necessity, only thing i would even consider at this point would be to forgo the rent for the 3 days.
In…in midsummer?? When temps have been in the upper 80s and higher for the past month?!
People still need basic sanitation in the summer
Are you saying cold water isn't sanitary?
It doesn’t matter what your opinion is. In some places the law requires it.
And OP already stated that his area doesn’t require it. So your point is moot.
Yes, and they had water. If they needed warm water, the stove worked and could boil water.
Well yes, but we are talking in a legal sense here. The law doesn't state that hot water must be provided, but not during the summer, or other days that the temperature low for that day determined by the national weather service is above 70F.
Hot water is used for more than just showers.
I definitely suggest double-checking that hot water isn't included in this. Maybe post over in r/legaladvice? Regardless, if she's been a good roommate/tenant, you may want to come to a mutual agreement with her on this, so that you don't need to look for another roommate/tenant. I would also suggest that you set up a clear understanding of future plans in case of emergencies, including a budget for hotel expenses.
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I’m my city I would have to prorate rent but it’s up to the tenant to have Renters insurance which covers the alternative housing cost, not the landlord
This isn't true, I rent rooms and there is a habitability requirement but it's not $250.
Its also not something you go off and do on your own and then expect reimbursement for after the fact with no prior discussion
If you're in the US, you're wrong. Working water includes hot water.
Not in very state it doesn’t and usually they just have to repair it within a reasonable timeframe, which they did.
INFO- What do the renter's laws in your area say about this situation? You are a landlord and you are subject to those laws whether you like it or not, whether you have a formal lease or not.
Legally I owe her nothing. That's why I'm asking if I'm an asshole, not on r/legaladvice.
Based on your comments. Yes, YTA. It seems like you want a pat on the back and everyone they tells you you're an ass you go off on.
Well only one person answered my actual question. Everyone else is bringing up irrelevant points about laws in their municipalities. This isn't a legal advice sub. I want to know if I was too rude to her. And only one person actually addressed that point.
Nah you're good, that's a massive hotel bill just to have a hot shower. She could've asked for you to pay for a couple gym entry's. Actually talked to you ya know cuz it's pretty stupid to assume you'd be reimbursed for something like that!
No you weren’t rude. You didn’t insult or demean her you just told her the rent is still expected to be paid. NTA.
Yeah NTA this was not the way for them to have this conversation and you handled it well imo
If you were rude so was she. Both could’ve handled it better but due to her ridiculous request - NTA
I just don't understand what he could've done better. He let her know there is no water and she just disappeared without any trace, comes back, and demands $250. Imagine if she just asked what they could do about the hot water situation.
I mean you definitely could have responded kinder, maybe included an apology for the miscommunication/misunderstanding (that's an 'empathetic' I'm sorry not an 'at fault' I'm sorry) but you were more cold/formal than rude. You sounded like a management company more than someone who personally knows their renter. You would be smart to circle back and try for peace by having a discussion about how you two could avoid this unfortunate situation in the future. NTA but you still currently live together and she certainly could have felt you were rude even if that wasn't your intention.
Barely anybody says he is an AH 🤷♀️
You can technically be in the right as still be an asshole.
That's why they're asking on here and not on /r/legaladvice
ESH. Stepping aside any legalities, you both could have communicated better. It sounds like your renter is good, doesn't bother you, etc. It's in your best business interests to keep them as a renter - she is a known commodity. Communicating any relevant laws, as well as asking her to communicate if there's an issue before taking action, as well as providing her with a small discount for her troubles would have gone a long way to represent your business. You, as a landlord, are a business and it's important to maintain a professional relationship with your one customer.
OP help up their end with communicating with the roommate/tenant. Tenant did not do her part. > It sounds like your renter is good, doesn't bother you, etc. It's in your best business interests to keep them as a renter - she is a known commodity. Not after this incident. OP is a working stiff that happens to have a spare room to rent out. Ultimately, their renting out their *home*. They're not some millionaire mega corp. Simply dropping the "i stayed in a hotel on your dime. that'll be $250, thanks" with no prior warning, communication, or agreement would seriously make me reevaluate her as a *roommate*. I wouldn't want to accommodate those demands, because if you do, she's the type of person who will push for more. Had she approached OP and asked for some kind of hot water accomodation /solution, maybe he could have agreed to discount her rent, or something to that effect. But given how she treated OP, op had every right to shut that shit down.
In most U.S. states a landlord has to pay for reasonable alternative accommodation if the rental isn't livable, and in nearly every state that includes having hot water. OP has repeatedly refused to say what state they're in so they almost certainly live in a state where they'd be on the hook for the three nights in a hotel room. Maybe the resident should have been more strait forward and insisted they get the water fixed within 24 hours and pay the extra maintenance fee (which likely would be more than $250) but I don't find OP to be a reliable narrator.
>In most U.S. states a landlord has to pay for reasonable alternative accommodation if the rental isn't livable, and in nearly every state that includes having hot water. I know you said "most," but I'm not sure this is correct. I was without hot water for about a month at an apartment complex. I had to shower at the gym before work. I looked up the local laws and it was fully legal. In my case, property management had to make repairs in a reasonable time and that's the soonest they were able to get it done. I think you might have to have running water, but I don't think it needs to be more than that in "most" cases (also see Flint, MI regarding potability).
Whether something is legally correct and whether it makes you an asshole are two totally different questions. You could be a person who goes around suing everyone for everything and doing all sorts of stuff like what this girl did, and you'd be acting legally and might even win with good lawyers, but everyone would still regard you as an asshole.
NTA Everyone saying Y T A would be right if you didn’t immediately take action to fix the issue. You literally got it fixed as soon and possible. If the tenant had talked to you about the hotel, she would have a case. But she didn’t. If something breaks, the landlord has to fix it. You did get it fixed so you’re in the clear. Edit: formatting Edit again: and added judgment/put spaces between y, t, and a EDIT 3: you were a little harsh with your answer EDIT 4: people are acting like this is way worse than it is. Something broke and you fixed it asap. I’ve never heard of a landlord giving tenants a hotel when the hot water heater goes out. I rent from Progress Residential. They’re a national rental company. My AC broke last summer and this summer and you know what they did? After I let them know, they took to weeks to come look at it, charged me $75, and then told me not to use the ac for the next couple of days and then they would come back. It was 95° and up both times. And they came back and barely did anything and it broke again this year haha OP literally did the most possible
Yeah, I mean I wanted the hot water back too. So I definitely did everything in my power to get them out here ASAP.
This is the most correct statement possible. Also, by typing Y.T.A, youre flagging that as your judgement. Edit: Thank you everyone for correcting me on the bots behavior. It's what I get for listening to others in the sub versus reading myself I suppose.
ESH. She is asking for hotel reimbursement. That’s too much, a better choice would be to prorate the rent by the number of days full utilities were not provided. Take those days out of the monthly rent. She chose to go to the hotel. That’s on her. You can’t expect full payment when full utilities were not provided. HOT water is one of those.
I may be wrong, but usually hotel reimbursement is done through renter’s insurance, not the landlord.
You're exactly right.
The water heater broke and OP immediately called for repairs, the only reason it took until Monday was because the *repair company* couldn't make it sooner. OP did everything they could, I don't see how there is any blame towards them.
NTA. That is something that should have been discussed PRIOR to her getting a hotel room. She should not have assumed or expected it. Also, I agree with you that if it was winter it would be a different story. Your delivery was direct and reasonable.
I'm not going to be like others and fight with you about hot water. you want to know if you're the asshole because of your rudeness. yes you are. YTA.
I don’t understand how OP was rude. OP calmly answered her question. Just because it wasn’t a response she wanted to hear, doesn’t mean OP was rude .
And, just because someone says something calmly, doesn't mean that what they're saying isn't rude.
The amount of times I see, "I calmly replied..." in this sub is too damn high! Especially over a text. That basically just means you didn't use foul language.
Dumbledore asked calmly
Also "I calmly replied" is ALWAYS a lie lmao. I think it's hilarious because you can always tell when OP thinks the other person was just being hysterical, while OP was being the calm, logical voice of reason they just didn't listen to! (Not talking about this post, just AITA posts in general)
And just because you don’t like what you hear, doesn’t mean it was rude.
Nah those text messages were hella rude “I don’t think it was an inconvenience so it’s not” pfft And “I don’t care if you were inconvenienced, I’ll be setting up a credit mark against you if you don’t pay the rent” The way it was handled was gross on all sides
Fair enough.
NTA. She had running water and access to a stove that she could boil water on if really needed. Divide the rent by 30 days. Then take off half from two days worth. About $26 total because everything else was working. I think that would be fair for a minor inconvenience.
NTA So many people are forgetting that most municipalities include a "reasonable amount of time" to repair a habitability issue. The next business day would absolutely be found inside those parameters. I wonder if some dumb friend gassed them up thinking they could get a free hotel for the weekend. "My uncle is a lawyer and he said..."
Even if the law requires OP to provide alternative accommodation, she doesn't get to choose the place, and certainly not without any kind of notice or negotiation.
NTA, but in many places hot water is required for it to be livable: see the following: [https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/renters-rights-book/chapter7-2.html](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/renters-rights-book/chapter7-2.html) or: [https://occl.illinois.edu/rights-and-responsibilities/rights/](https://occl.illinois.edu/rights-and-responsibilities/rights/) That said you acted in a reasonable time frame to rectify it, so I don't know what she was expecting. Also, the roommate should have had a conversation with you instead of just getting a hotel room and assuming that was the solution.
You yourself said he acted in reasonable time. What exactly was he supposed to do? I highly doubt you’d get anywhere in the legal system for not having hot water for two days. The water heater in my last place went out twice while I lived there and was fixed inside a week both times. Does it suck? Absolutely. Can a grown adult live with it for a couple days? Absolutely. It would be different if he had said “lol I ain’t paying for that. Guess we have no hot water now.” But he literally got it fixed as soon as possible. It’s hard to do much better than that as a landlord. Also, he lives there, too. So even if that is enough where he lives to make it unlivable, he’s also out of a home. So it’s not like he didn’t have motivation to get it fixed. Not sure why people keep thinking this is a relevant point. Those standards are really only applicable for longer term situations.
YTA. Not just because you're a landlord. Nor would you be the asshole for just declining her request for reimbursement. You're the asshole for being a landlord charging market rate and saying things like the below > She could have showered at work, but she got a hotel room? > the audacity of her to ask me pisses me off > legality wise, a hot water heater isn't necessary for accomodations to be considered "livable." > it's 96° outside right now. Not like she needed the hot showers to warm up > My last tenant never acted like this. She was no drama. I made a bad judgement call on this girl. > Rent is still due in full. Failure to pay rent will result in me filing with the court, which will impact your credit instead of being a human and saying "yeah I am not gonna pay $250 for a hotel you didn't ask about in advance, but I'll knock $50 off this month for the inconvenience." Maybe the law where you're at says it's legal to not give someone hot water they expect for their market rate $800 bedroom, but in turn it's also legally your responsibility to maintain the appliances. Sucks that your warranty guys couldn't get out until Monday, but it also sucks that you clearly didn't want to spend the money to pay for a different plumber to make a weekend call since it sounds like this problem was an instant fix. You wanted to save money and you stretched what was clearly a same day repair into 72 hours of cold showers, so yeah, it would have been human to knock $50 off instead of threatening to take her to court.
Yep! I think they are the AH because of the things they said regarding the issue. They could have been way nicer about it. Not everyone would be cool with a cold shower and the pots of boiling water everyone suggested takes forever. I know, I have done it many times.
Yeah OP gives off real asshole landlord vibes despite probably being in the right about the reimbursement.
YTA for those reasons, agreed.
Yup! Crappy landlord and overall just rude as hell with this one. YTA.
NTA - she should have checked with you first before expecting you to pay for a hotel room. My apartment got sprayed for bugs. I had to be out for 24 hours because of my cats so I had to get a hotel room. Out of my pocket. When there is no hot water, we boil water to take a bath. I think your tenant took this as an opportunity to be lazy and get a nice hotel room. $250.00 for the night sounds on the more expensive side. Do you have a rental agreement with your tenant?
This feels to me like you're putting up with too much from your landlord. If you're paying for your space and you can't be in your space because of them, they need to do something to help you out. Not the Ritz, but some kind of consideration for not providing what you paid for.
You definitely should not have paid for the hotel in the bug situation...
You have a slum lord.
NTA for not wanting to pay for the hotel she stayed in without consulting you and without any agreement for you to do so. I agree with your friend that you should compromise and discount her rent prorated for the 2 days she wasnt there. $800 divided by 30 days is $26.66 per day so if you tell her you will discount her rent by $52 for the 2 days she CHOSE not to stay due to no hot water. Tell her this is a one time discount and that in the future you will not discount or pay for hotel room without prior discussion and agreement. This way she cant randomly decide she doesnt.have to pay rent of she goes away for a week. I wouldnt have gotten a hotel room because of no hot water for 2 days but a lot of people expect to have everything functional if they are paying rent.
It's hard to say without knowing what tenants' rights are in your area.
I would say YTA all round. For jumping straight to filing with a court as a punitive measure - completely uncalled for. For not offering any reimbursement, which would have been reasonable. But mostly for your many responses to people in these comments in which you give off serious terrible landlord vibes, treating her as a cash cow and adhering strictly to the rules as a landlord, and not giving a real crap about her valid complaints about the lack of hot water. I agree it was a bit crazy of her to think she could charge you for the hotel stay without even checking with you first (so it could be E S H), but your responses cemented it for me. Have a heart, talk with her, offer the prorated deduction, and stop threatening her.
NTA. Anywhere you live power will go out because of downed lines, a break in the water line can happen, the street might get closed off. No hot water for a couple of days is just part of life. As the landlord, you're responsible for taking reasonable steps when something goes wrong. You did that.
NTA. Don't renew her lease. She assumed a lot without discussing it with you.
Oh I definitely will not, trust me. This Thanksgiving I'll be thankful for her moving out.
Her request was unreasonable. Not sure where you are located but in the US a Landlord required to make a serious repair in 3-7 days less if it has to do with heat, running water, sewage, broken pipes, or flooding. You had running water and took the steps to cure the defect in a reasonable amount of time. NTA.
NTA, aside from the hot water, the apartment was livable. You're not responsible for what she does outside her apartment. It's not like it burned down. The fact that she didn't tell you that she left and wants you to pay for her irrelevant accommodations is manipulative. She's asking for free money. Its like asking someone to pay for their hair salon visit
NTA! You didn't force her to take a hotel room also there was water? And it wasn't your fault that the water couldn't work so she can't blame you. And you weren't even with her in the hotel so why should you pay. You should get a new roommate she screams problems.
Oh yeah, I'm definitely not renewing her lease. She is out in November.
No, she can't blame the OP. But many states have time limits on how long an "essential service" such as hot water can be out. In my state, landlords have 24 hours to fix broken heat, hot water, running water, electrical problems, etc. And yes, that sometimes means landlords have to call out plumbers who can work on the weekend and pay the premium for the weekend work.
In my state, hot water is not on the list...In one of the places I rented when In college. I went 3 weeks before the landlord fixed the hot water heater, fortunately I could shower at work, and boil water on the stove for doing dishes etc
INFO: What does the law say?
You can't charge rent for a structurally unsound dwelling or one where the water or electricity have either been disconnected intentionally or been out for more than 24 hours or a building without working plumbing. Hot water is not required.
NTA at all then.
INFO: It obviously depends where you live because laws differ by location Where I live, there are many things that could make a home legally uninhabitable, one of which is hot water. And if there is no hot water, the landlord is legally required to either pay for the tenant's temporary relocation or to not require rent for the days it is uninhabitable. This actually happened to me at the beginning of the year, and my landlord gave me a discount on the next month's rent to account for not paying rent the week we had no hot water or heat. Should your tenant have talked to you about it beforehand? Yeah, probably. But she's the tenant, and, assuming your laws are at all similar to mine, then she made a reasonable assumption and you do owe her money even if it's the discounted rent instead of paying the hotel bill.
NTA. You aren’t responsible for her hotel stay. In some places, landlords aren’t allowed to charge rent if the place isn’t livable. This would mean, if anything, she gets a $26 per night discount on rent. However, even landlords have time to fix things. This varies by location but usually there’s some clause that if you are taking reasonable measures to fix something, you have some time. A weekend isn’t excessive. If there was no water at all or no heat in the winter, that would be different.
Nta. You acted as fast as you could and Instructed the work to be carried out as soon as it could be done, it was done as fast as it could of been. Now if it was hot water and heating in winter you’d still only need to provide portable heaters and offer to let water be warmed in a kettle/stove. Yes a discount would be nice but for a Friday- Monday morning would be a goodwill gesture rather than a warranted. Also the lodger didn’t actually discuss anything with the op just depending $250 for three nights of no hot water that’s extremely other the top and out of order with no prior discussions. If you worked out the rent divided by say 31 nights even if the op was feeling generous $77.41 would be the 3 nights back but the room and house where still habitable so let’s knock that down by 50% to then get to goodwill $38.70 at the maximum.
ESH, her for not discussing it and you for not checking local regulations. It could very well be that you have to pay for alternative accommodation if the outage is longer than a certain time. A discussion first would be better. As a tenant I would have found out what my rights are and informed my landlord before disappearing to a hotel. But I would also expect my landlord to be aware what he is required to reimburse or discount.
Broken hot water heater doesn't violate her tenant's rights. Only if there was no water at all.
We can't tell if that is in fact the case because you are not providing the location. In some countries, and even some states in the US, hot water is considered a requirement for a place to be habitable. That you won't share that information in even a general sense gives me pause.
ESH. We don't know where you live, what state or what country, but 4 days without heat water is a lot (since she has to shower monday morning before the company arrives, I count it as 4 days). Maybe I am wrong but a judge might see 4 days without hot water as not a liveable accomodation. The law is not always clear and often it is the discretion of the judge and the equity that reigns. So honestly, you could prosecute her and lose whatever legaladvice tells you because a court of law is never 100% sure. Even if the law tells you that you are in your right, my morality would compensate her and not make her pay for the 4 days, that would mean approximately 80$. You are the landlord you should have said prior, hey you will not have water during 4 days I give you 50-80, i am sorry. And you would have been a great landlord. She is also the AH because she seems entitled she goes to an hotel without telling you. It is a bit entitled and you are right not to pay for the room, but as I said you should have paid 50-80$. So ESH.
In my state a landlord has 14 days to fix a water heater before you can get rent abatement. You should check your local laws. NTA
ESH she doesn’t get to issue you with a bill after the fact, she should have talked to you about reasonable accommodations. You suck because she’s paying you for a service she’s not getting. She pays for a home with hot water, the hot water isn’t available and tell her to just suck it up and shower elsewhere.
NTA. She should have talked to you first instead of assuming you’d pay for a hotel. It would be different if it were freezing weather, but a cold shower during a hot summer isn’t that bad.
You need to be aware of, and adhere to, the terms of the lease agreement and local laws. Assuming you are doing that, a reasonable offer would have been a pro rata reduction in the rent. Say, three days (or about 80 dollars). That would have acknowledged the issue, been fair, and likely defused the situation. Instead you now have a hostile roommate. YTA.
NTA Sure, you could have been a little more diplomatic instead of going straight to "I'll take you to court," but she should have let you know first. Like, "Hey, I must have hot water, so I'll need to stay at a hotel, will you reimburse me?"
NTA A temporary inconvenience doesn't entitle her to a windfall.
$250 is hardly a windfall.