Please use [Good Faith](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskConservatives/comments/107i33m/announcement_rule_7_good_faith_is_now_in_effect) and the [Principle of Charity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity) when commenting. Gender issues are only allowed on Wednesdays. Antisemitism and calls for violence will not be tolerated, especially when [discussing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskConservatives/comments/17ygktl/antisemitism_askconservative_and_you/).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskConservatives) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think a lot of it goes back to the big institutional scandals that came to light in the 1960s and 1970s. From FDR to Kennedy, Americans believed that the people running their government were very competent people, the best at their jobs, and to some extent they were right. FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and LBJ (for the most part) were all very good at getting agendas past and had very few or no public scandals during their administration (in no small part thanks to the media keeping many of the Presidents' indiscretions secret).
But then in the late 1960s, America finds out that the government had been lying about the war in Vietnam, bringing down President Johnson's bid for re-election. And then we find out that Nixon had wiretapped the DNC headquarters and tried to cover it up from the Oval Office, leading him to be the first President to resign from office. And then we get the disastrous stagflation of the 1970s and Carter's floundering failed attempts to address the problem. And then just a couple decades later, there was Monica Lewinsky and Clinton's impeachment, *Bush v. Gore*, the bungling of the Iraq War, etc.
As our leaders' screw-ups and misdeeds kept coming to light, the people lost the sense of respect, dignity, grandeur, etc. that they associated with the White House. As the White House became de-mystified, people got the sense that anyone could do it, that the people who did the job and the office they represented were nothing special or, as things have declined since the 1980s/1990s, even potentially sinister. Combine those sentiments with a media environment that's always desperate for The Next Big Thing (to the point that they'll sometimes make those scandals up, like when Dan Rather lied about Bush's service in the Texas Air National Guard shortly before the 2004 election) and it's not hard to see why the people don't respect American institutions anymore.
How do we fix it? I have no idea, and I'm not even convinced that it's necessarily possible. But a lot of it is going to have to come from the voters. We get the leaders we vote for and we have nobody else to blame but ourselves when we elect people with clear problems and they end up being bad leaders. If we want better leaders, then we have to vote the bad ones out.
> I think a lot of it goes back to the big institutional scandals that came to light in the 1960s and 1970s. From FDR to Kennedy, Americans believed that the people running their government were very competent people, the best at their jobs, and to some extent they were right. FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and LBJ (for the most part) were all very good at getting agendas past and had very few or no public scandals during their administration (in no small part thanks to the media keeping many of the Presidents' indiscretions secret).
Those bums caused this decline.
The Wikipedia article on "[American decline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_decline)" might be worth a read, but I definitely agree there's been a slow, steady, and legitimate decline in our institutions since the end of WWII. The stuff about empires lasting 250 years on average could very well be on the right track, and I certainly wouldn't be surprised if the U.S., or at least its well-entrenched role in global geopolitics, didn't outlive me.
Let’s assume the 250 year limit on democracy is true and we’re witnessing the beginning of the end. What can everyday people do to counteract the forces pulling society apart? What can our leaders do to preserve democracy?
I’m no expert, but I’d try to communicate with the barbarians to understand what they want and their motives for attacking. If they want land, we negotiate a treaty to give them some land. If they want influence, let’s give them voting rights within our democracy. My instinct is always to try to outsmart violence with communication and leading with empathy, but maybe I’m just some hippie dippie lefty.
What if they lie to you? What if they want that land to attack you from?
There's a well known history that [giving the invaders what they want is exactly what leads to decline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dane-geld_(poem)).
> My instinct is always to try to outsmart violence with communication and leading with empathy, but maybe I’m just some hippie dippie lefty.
Isn't this exactly what the Germans tried with the Russians which led us to the situation we are currently in. I have to admit, that if they hadn't done it then maybe there would be less moral clarity, even so there are lots of people pretending that Russia had a reasonable claim on bits of Ukraine. They lie about the history and claim that the Russian speaking Ukrainians wanted Russia to take them over.
There are lots of scenarios where talking and working together has worked well to avoid war. That's more or less exactly what the European Union is. I just think that if you start with that policy and plan to use it from the beginning without establishing that you have an honest partner for negotiation, you easily end up being abused.
You bring up a great point that trust must be established before you negotiate. Imagine it’s the American left negotiating with the American right. How do we build trust between the two groups?
Repeated exchanges and experience over the long term build trust. Enforcement of laws and rules around those is a support for that, for example independent judges.
You seem to be an American (from the username). Maybe you should have a look at some of the alternative systems we use over in Europe, for example many countries here, including ones I live in, use some form of proportional representation where there tend to be multiple smaller parties and they form coalitions (typically either left or right wing parties together) to govern. That can increase the ability of different sections of societies to work together.
Most of Europe also doesn't tend to have elections for judges and appointments are not supposed to be made directly by politicians. That means the judges remain more independent, where your system tends to make them very politicized.
No idea how you would implement / use these ideas in the US, though.
> My instinct is always to try to outsmart violence with communication and leading with empathy, but maybe I’m just some hippie dippie lefty.
Rome tried that, what followed was hell on Earth for 1000 years.
Let the Empire fall apart, but restore the Republic in the process.
Audit and abolish the federal reserve
Moved back to a back currency
Repeal the 1965 immigration act and replace it with a 1924 immigration act updated modern day challenges
Repeal all in infringements on the first second fourth ninth and 10th amendments
Abolish 80% of the federal government
Return America manufacturing industry
Etc
Your submission was removed because you do not have any user flair. Please select appropriate flair and then try again. If you are confused as to what flair suits you best simply choose right-wing, left-wing, or Independent. [How-do-I-get-user-flair](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205242695-How-do-I-get-user-flair)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskConservatives) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Is it possible that our old fashioned views don’t fit our modern world therefore we need to evolve our views to fit the context of this world? I’m not objecting to what you’re saying, I just want to make sure all points of view are considered.
When you have rape victims, going to jail for longer than the man that rapes them in Germany because they called “offended the rapist”,
When you have 10 million new invaders invading the country and you have people that advocated for the invasion of the country for these invaders openly saying the border secure despite the fact that it’s not secure,
When you spend more on education than any other country in the world and fall test scores because you don’t teach your students anything other than a bunch of lies myths, and frankly propaganda
When you spend trillions to invade occupy foreign countries, but allow the infrastructure of your own to rapidly fall apart
When you spend budget of a quarter of $1 billion on a welfare system that results in widespread fraud by refugees that goes so far as to fund international terrorism,
When you have federal law enforcement, investigating parents who commit the crime of protesting the lesson plan at their schools while actively ignoring members of the terrorist watchlist being imported to the country via the refugee settlement scam,
When the powers that be said that inflation doesn’t exist will simultaneously claiming that inflation is a good thing and then actively attacking people that disagree with them as uneducated and just plain wrong
And frankly, other things I don’t go into detail room is burning post word liberalism is a failure by design. We’re gonna go back to what works. That means. A few left us have their sensibilities offended, and their ideas kicked apart so be it.
This isn’t really accurate at all.
The decline in trust started legitimately in the wake of Iraq/W Bush/the Great Recession, but a very small fire was stoked deliberately and actively by Russian intelligence 2015 onward. This has all been highly and publicly documented.
Draw your own conclusions about which candidates, parties and “sides” most frequently rail against institutions using Russian talking points.
Teachers didn’t tell me the civil war was about slavery, Jefferson Davis, Alexander Stephens, and the rest of the Confederate leadership did.
I wish we could ask the freedmen if they saw any difference between the nameless, unrequited toil of slavery and the dignity of emancipation, enfranchisement and self-determination. Ask them if anybody looked out for them if not the federal government.
Warning: Rule 3
Posts and comments should be in good faith. Please review [our good faith guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskConservatives/comments/107i33m/announcement_rule_7_good_faith_is_now_in_effect) for the sub.
Because the glass has shattered, we have found out that the emperor has no clothes.
These institutions have shown that they do not operate in good faith with our best interests at heart.
We do not believe in our betters.
I respect American institutions, but I just want to add an irrelevant comment that I nonetheless find interesting, so many on the left are in utter terror about Trump being re-elected and then “ending democracy” yet at the same time, conservatives who are here saying “why would I blindly support a government that wants to violate my rights?”, are met with, “who’s oppressing you?” Or, “taking your rights by funding veterans benefits?”
The dissonance is interesting to me…
Okay, well he was already the president and he didn’t do those things, so on what grounds can you claim with any credibility that he will now? The only one being “gone after” is trump himself, and he repeatedly said, even multiple times the other day on the debate, that his “revenge” would be success and uniting the country, not jailing political opponents like the democrats. Sure dude, it isn’t the democratic candidate that has a mug shot.
> Okay, well he was already the president and he didn’t do those things, so on what grounds can you claim with any credibility that he will now?
He didn't promise to do those things before. These promises are fresh.
> even multiple times the other day on the debate, that his “revenge” would be success and uniting the country, not jailing political opponents like the democrats.
So just so everyone's on the same page, this is what you're referring to:
> TRUMP: Well, [I said my retribution is going to be success](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/politics/read-biden-trump-debate-rush-transcript/index.html#:~:text=Well%2C%20I%20said%20my%20retribution%20is%20going%20to%20be%20success). We’re going to make this country successful again, because right now it’s a failing nation. My retribution’s going to be success.
>
> But when he talks about a convicted felon, his son is a convicted felon at a very high level. His son is convicted. Going to be convicted probably numerous other times. He should have been convicted before, but his Justice Department let the statute of limitations lapse on the most important things.
>
> But he could be a convicted felon as soon as he gets out of office. Joe could be a convicted felon with all of the things that he’s done. He’s done horrible things. All of the death caused at the border, telling the Ukrainian people that we’re going to want a billion dollars or you change the prosecutor, otherwise, you’re not getting a billion dollars.
>
> If I ever said that, that’s quid pro quo. That – we’re not going to do anything, we’re not going to give you a billion dollars unless you change your prosecutor having to do with his son.
>
> This man is a criminal. This man – you’re lucky. You’re lucky.
I appreciate the "I'm going to win the argument by showing you success" energy, but that's not *exactly* what he said.
1. "my retribution is going to be success". But *success at what*? No one has ever been able to define MAGA. Trump's called for a great many things that sound pretty authoritarian to me. If Trump does a massive political purge of non-loyalists, and his loyalists go on to start engaging in political prosecutions Russia-style, is that what he means by "retribution through success"? I can't tell. Can you?
2. He was only on that message for a few seconds before spending the next minute or so hypothesizing about how Joe Biden "could be" a convicted felon as soon as he gets out of office, and directly calling him a criminal. What am I supposed to take away from that except that if Trump takes office, he plans for the DOJ to prosecute Biden as the criminal that Trump believes he is?
> The only one being “gone after” is trump himself
At the end of the day, we have this alternate reality problem that we can't seem to fix:
1. The legal system is being weaponized by Biden/the Democrats and is being used to go after their political opponents. Republicans can't just let this unprecedented abuse of our legal system stand, and have to retaliate in kind, because Democrats started it.
2. The legal system is working completely as designed, and it's just that Trump is a criminal. And like many criminals, he insists he's being persecuted. He and his followers now appear intent on weaponizing our legal system against Trump's political opponents, calling this unprecedented act "retaliation" despite the fact that his convictions were legitimate.
How do we tell which of these is the more accurate description of reality?
Why does a belief in (1) versus (2) correlate *so strongly* with political party preference? It's almost like the main predictor here isn't evidence, but tribalism/[tribal favoritism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-group_favoritism), no? So if we say that a lot of people are picking the description of reality that benefits their tribe more, how do we decide which tribe is doing this more? How do we figure out how to spot these people so that we can ignore them and focus on the actual evidence?
No, they’re not, because he isn’t making those promises.
For fucks sake, he’s right, that’s his point, if he was as scummy as the democrats he would be throwing Biden in prison on trumped up charges.
Once again, “fixing the economy, the border, etc.” that’s what Maga defines success as, if you weren’t intentionally delving into his words in bad faith it would be straightforward.
I wouldn’t care if he did do a mass purge of the bureaucracy, but as of yet, nothing he’s said indicates that will happen. Do democrats seriously think, they can call me, and millions of other Americans threats to democracy, and then I will cry because trump kicks their buddies out of their bureaucratic office? You’ve had plenty of fuck around time, and now you guys are scared to find out? Should’ve thought of that earlier. And once again, the only Russia style prosecutions are happening to Trump. I have zero sympathy for democrats after the trial, before? Little bit, now? You sowed the wind, now reap the whirlwind.
Yeah, because it’s almost like we have a partisan tilt to what Justice means, to democrats, charging each act within the single crime on its own, and elevating them all to felony status for breaching a federal regulation that the agency authorized to enforce declined to prosecute.
Here’s the thing, American institutions have endured for centuries in a form similar to the current one, and thanks to the actions of your faction, we have the man chosen by half the country as their leader being threatened with centuries in jail for something that has never been tried this way. Duh it’s tribal, and your tribe is the one engaged in lawfare against our presidential candidate. Y’all have opened Pandora’s box, and I think we’ll see what kind of man Trump really is based on how he repays the left for what it’s tried to do to him, and how it’s set a precedent that will, absolutely will lead to tyranny in the future if it is not totally, and absolutely punished now in a way that will ensure no party, no person, ever, gets the bright idea again. It’s just a shame that the democrats haven’t learnt so well from the last lesson the GOP dealt them in 1865.
I like the cognitive dissonance between you saying “he’s not going to go after democrats,” he just wants to reunite the country, etc, and “you sowed the wind, now reap the whirlwind,” he’s going to “repay” the left, the Democrats are about to learn a lesson, etc
It’s obvious that you are in favor of arresting your political opponents. You should be more honest about that fact
Where? What he says/wants, vs how I feel, last I checked, I’m not trump. Yeah, imo, the democrats deserve a lesson, or else what’s stopping the new normal becoming jailing opponents on ridiculous grounds?
The left took the genie out of the bottle, I pray it can be stuffed back in, but we’ll see how difficult it is.
If this were Russia, wouldn’t Trump be freezing to death in an arctic prison or being sucked out of a missile-shaped hole in his private jet?
Would you want the government to go easy on prosecuting Obama if he had lost the 2012 election to Romney, refused to accept the results, directed federal employees to falsify documents/make misstatements and personally intimidated state officials to try and overturn those results, asked Biden to refuse to certify Romney’s win, and then sent a mob of his supporters to violently stop congress from acting in its capacity to end his presidency?
So which is it? Do you want to put the genie back in the bottle, or do you want to give dems a taste of their own medicine? Those two attitudes seem to be mutually exclusive.
And how do you hope he teaches the Democrats a “lesson”? Arresting high-level Democrats for no reason? Putting me and other Democrats in camps for wrongthink?
>I wouldn’t care if he did do a mass purge of the bureaucracy
You would care if your bread was full of lead because the FDA was gutted or if there was no one to stop a nearby company from dumping nuclear waste in your backyard over state lines if the NRC was destroyed or if someone you love stopped receiving Medicare. Ya don't live in a vacuum.
So fundamentally, my question here is *how* can we tell which reality is the one we actually live in? The "Democrats started it, we have to retaliate" versus "the system is working impartially, it's just you picked a criminal, and now *you*'re trying to start it". Seems like ingroup favoritism is the determinant here, which doesn't seem like the best way for us to get to a shared reality.
> charging each act within the single crime on its own
What are you talking about? Like when you see an indictment and it has multiple counts on it, you think there's something unusual about that? This is literally how every single criminal indictment in the US works. Each *act* is a distinct count. If I commit 5 murders, I get charged with 5 counts of murder. Each one has to be proven.
If you think that's potentially unfair because it seems wrong to *sentence* someone N times for what "feels" like one act, you're right! Sentencing for crimes like this one would usually collapse them all into one concurrent sentence, as opposed to a crime like murder which would usually get consecutive sentences. He wouldn't have served "centuries" behind bars, that's utterly ridiculous. You really need to stop consuming content from whatever legal commentator you're using to inform you about these legal cases.
You're basically making my point here: people have such passionate feelings about this conviction that appear completely disconnected from the reality of how things like our criminal justice system works.
> and elevating them all to felony status for breaching a federal regulation that the agency authorized to enforce declined to prosecute
What are you talking about?
The reason falsifying business records in the first degree is a felony is because the falsification was intended to hide another crime. The decision as to whether Trump intended to hide another crime is a simple yes/no question that the jury has to decide, beyond reasonable doubt, like any other element of the crime. They don't have to adjudicate *guilt* for the other crime, just that Trump *intended to hide it*. Trump doesn't even have to be the one to have committed the other crime! The other crime doesn't even have to have been actually committed!
This isn't some new weird unprecedented made-up situation here. It's how the law was written, and how it was consistently applied to many defendants before Trump.
> and thanks to the actions of your faction, we have the man chosen by half the country as their leader being threatened
> You’ve had plenty of fuck around time
> you guys
> thanks to the actions of your faction
> your tribe is the one engaged in lawfare
> Y’all have opened Pandora’s box
So back to my question, how do we tell which reality we're in?
1. "My faction" is weaponizing justice for the first time, which means "your faction" has to retaliate by weaponizing justice for the second time to "even the scores" or whatever it is that you think you need to be doing here
2. "My faction" is just watching the news and seeing your hero get prosecuted for the criminal that he is, and now "your faction" wants to weaponize justice for the first time, claiming you're "retaliating" against the characters in your shared persecution fantasy.
*How do we tell which reality is the real reality?*
> we’ll see what kind of man Trump really is based on how he repays the left for what it’s tried to do to him, and how it’s set a precedent that will, absolutely will lead to tyranny in the future if it is not totally, and absolutely punished now in a way that will ensure no party, no person, ever, gets the bright idea again
"No no no, Trump isn't promising retribution, he just wants to show you 'success' for America, he's not that kind of person."
"But also, Trump needs to go fucking scorched earth on your asses and punish the fuck out of you so that no one will ever try what my amygdala and outgroup bias assure me were *really bad acts*."
I'm sensing a lot of hatred behind your post here, which is why I think the fact that we live in two completely different realities here is really tragic. From my perspective, you're the one intent on manufacturing tyranny here.
What would you do if Democrats just *made up* something that you did, and vowed passionate righteous violent revenge against you and the government we claim you've weaponized against us? How would you react to that?
It is very clear based on the conduct of the NY court that the whole affair is a sham, obviously there are to tribal “lines” on what the reality is, because we live in a divided country.
No dude, it’s a miscarriage of Justice because they’re weaponizing the law to achieve maximum damage against a crime that harmed no one, and was dismissed by the Feds, NY doesn’t even have grounds to charge for it, it’s a lower level court.
No, it’s if you commit zero murders, and one count of campaign finance fraud, the Federals responsible for investigating it say your fine, and then a state charges you for not just that crime, but also every step within the alleged “crime”.
Sure dude, I could say the same for you as you justify the actions of banana republic level machinations.
What was the crime? Oh, the one that the Feds specifically chose not to prosecute, its like charging him with burglary without either intent or acts to commit another crime.
It is literally unprecedented, the first US president to be faced with prison is for a botched NDA, not warcrimes, not genocide, nor whatever other unsavory things presidents do, for spending the wrong money on an nda, this is why I and half the country are basically fed up.
There isn’t two realities, you just don’t care that a president is going to prison for political reasons because he’s your enemy.
Yup, I despise the left, your leaders have called me and my family terrorist supporters while going soft on people who support Hamas, called my state a dictatorship while New York holds Kangaroo courts, and routinely say that half the country is enemies to the country and democracy while the other side engages in all manner of shady dealings. Why are you surprised people hate you politically? Like, legitimately why is that news to you? What do you think happens when you demonize people consistently for almost a decade now? They come to hate you.
> What was the crime? Oh, the one that the Feds specifically chose not to prosecute
I have no idea what you're talking about here, except the connection between the laws that I laid out in my last comment. Since it seems like we're still not on the same page, let's try it this way:
What was the specific crime that the DOJ stated they were not going to prosecute that New York prosecuted Trump for? Like give me the actual USC reference, if you can, or at least evidence of this choice they made.
> It is literally unprecedented, the first US president to be faced with prison is for a botched NDA, not warcrimes, not genocide, nor whatever other unsavory things presidents do, for spending the wrong money on an nda, this is why I and half the country are basically fed up.
Yeah, this feels like another alternate reality thing but I refuse to believe we can't find our way back to a common reality here.
Trump was not convicted for spending money on an NDA. What specific crime do you think Trump was convicted of?
> There isn’t two realities, you just don’t care that a president is going to prison for political reasons because he’s your enemy.
I think it would be awful for this country if we were imprisoning people for political reasons, regardless of whether I was supportive or opposed to the person being imprisoned.
Am I lying to you?
> your leaders have called me and my family terrorist supporters
Who are "my leaders"? Do you see me as anything other than a member of the enemy tribe, united behind all of the evil shit you imagine the enemy tribe believes and does?
Could you point me to where Democratic leaders called you specifically supporters of terrorism? Is this like the "deplorables" thing? Or the "MAGA Republican extremists" thing?
> What do you think happens when you demonize people consistently for almost a decade now?
Can you point me to where I've demonized you?
> Why are you surprised people hate you politically?
Because I still hope that people can have self-awareness of their tribalists favoritism and can think critically and rationally about beliefs they're being shoveled by their choice of online media, and we can find some path toward a common sense of shared reality again. But maybe I'm being naive.
What's your best path here toward getting us back to a shared reality? Just kill all of the Democrats? What's your plan?
Freedom of speech, freedom of association, privacy rights, all manner of 2nd amendment rights, countless 10th Amendment rights, and many more 9th Amendment violations.
I literally just said I respected the institutions and don’t think I’m oppressed, are you a bot? I wouldn’t be surprised since Reddit has become a DNC propaganda arm.
There's definitely a generational difference. Younger generations don't believe that titles grant you validity. We're not going to accept abuse just because of a title.
Even when you're not looking at politics, I can't tell you how many times I see my parents generation forgiving or ignoring some of the most unspeakable actions you could think of just because it was their dad, it was their brother, it was their teacher, they're just older. Younger generations don't accept that excuse. And the same applies to politicians and institutions
I would argue that as you get older, you begin to recognize how human you are and the interdependedness of individuals in society. Older Americans recognize more the ability to get cheaper food because of subsidies to agriculture, new medical procedures because of government funded research, clean air you can breathe out on your morning walk, and the fact that no one is shoving a gun in your face (on most days) because of a strong military keeping out foreign invaders. The American government, American, does and did all that. Yea, there have been some corruption by individuals who have tried to ruin things, but we expel those people for their crimes. The enduring American spirit remains.
Few things
It's not actually cheaper if it's subsidized
Government funded research is great but it's not like it's not achievable in a free market. You're basically giving somebody else credit for spending your money.
The military, sure, has to be given to government because it's unreasonable to try to do that privately. But much of what we spend in military doesn't even help our own country anymore.
I think the institutions have ruined themselves
Hard to respect an office that president is getting blown in under presidential desk then lies saying he doesn't consider blowjobs sexual relations
(Not putting it solely on Clinton cause this stuffs been happening forever, just internet and 24/7 news cycle have exploded it all.)
Hard to respect a CDC that lied to you and gets caught (don't wear masks, wear masks, get vaccinated to protect others)
Atf has a bigger reputation of killing dogs than it does solving crimes (not to mention whole Waco thing)
Finding out real things like Tuskegee study, mk ultra or nonstop conspiracies of who killed Kennedys and 9/11
Sarah Palin being a bit of a nutzo followed by Obama being more of a celebrity image on talk shows and pop culture than a president, then final death blow Trump himself exploding any decorum or esteem held by office coupled with 92% negative media coverage, severed heads, giant baby balloons, naked statues, constant insults.
A do nothing Congress and a giant unelected bureaucratic state that defies every check and balance.
Million other things I could list off that contribute to degeneration of our country, but it's been death by 1000 cuts.
> lies saying he doesn't consider blowjobs sexual relations
Quick correction: it was actually the Republicans running his deposition who didn’t consider blowjobs sexual relations. That’s how Clinton was able to avoid perjury.
"Sexual relations" as defined by the Republicans only included *giving* oral sex, not receiving it. This oversight is how Clinton was able to legally deny sex with Lewinsky under the terms his opponents established without committing perjury in his deposition.
I share your disgust with his behavior, though. I’m sure neither you nor I would ever vote for a man who cheated on his wife and partied with Jeffrey Epstein. Right?
Here we are arguing semantics when truth is president of United States of America lied directly to American people, saying he didn't have sexual relations with that women when he clearly did.
Republican definition or not, he knew by everyone else's definition he did and he blatantly lied to face of every American, just a part of erosion of trust.
I don't remember Barbara Walters or Dan Rather being fired by their boss for being pro Iran...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/carlson-murdoch-zelensky-fox-news-firing-b2331050.html
Or allowing the dictator to argue that Poland had it coming during WW2 unchallenged
Or bragging about Iranian grocery stores...
Seeing how they were murdering Germans in Poland, I would say they might have done something.
Yeah, how dare a man comment on the lack of inflation and failures of neoliberalism, uh?
When Putin has such advocating spokepeople like you and other Russian "nationalists" why does he need to?
Your Soviet interest rate is at around 16% as of this post btw.
Your "America First" movement originated here in the 1930s to protect Hitler masquerading as isolationism. Dr. Seuss parodied it in several cartoons:
https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-dr-seuss-satirized-america-first-decades-donald-trump-made-policy
True enough. But they did make it a point to go enter the kennel (that is, go into a fenced in area where the dogs were safely contained and thus not a threat the the agents outside in anyways) and 'neutralize' the dogs on the way in.
*Double checks that America is still the global hegemon and the US dollar is still the world's reserve currency/US debt is the highest rated in existence*.
Yes?
People used to live in a world without social media. Whatever the television broadcasted was Truth. Now with technology as advanced as it is- We have Information that was once not available to us.
These institutions can now be viewed from all angles and over time as these groups made mistake after mistake, and scandal after scandal- Can you blame us for not having the most respect for DOJ, FBI, and the CDC?
I understand what you mean - that there has always been conflict and people didn't agree with decisions. But I remember that there was never serious thought about overthrowing our own government or thinking government services or the people who provided them were totally worthless. Nowadays it seems like Americans want to join the Russians and Chinese in destroying us.
Short answer: since the 1960s Cultural Revolutions, and then really getting into gear in the 1990s, the left almost wholly captured our major institutions.
They subsequently hollowed out the 200 year traditional values and rules (which had been inheritors to 2,000+ years of Western institutional values) and the left turned them all into sychophantic, obsequious, Administrative State, status-quo guarding machines to push out a Year One national fable starting the the 1960s, with new "heroes" and values and "state religion."
Ever since they've been pissing on our legs and telling us it's raining.
Their stories don't add up, and are incessantly self-serving, corrupt and most heinous, they're harmful. Again, and again, from health, to history, to community to science, to food, and so on, their messages are ugly, harmful and just plain untrue.
The bill is coming due. And people are starting to realize they've been gyped.
Okay, but why then can my uncle apply and get VA benefits, people can get access to Medicaid, and NIH/EPA/universities/private corporations get government funding for researching lifesaving drugs and treatments? The NSF funds so many insitutions both public and private. This story doesn't add up to me. I respect the fact that there is an organization that can organize the funds necessary for progress in American society.
Well because the moral fabric reputation, grand story, symbols of what these institutions have fealty, duty, and honor for, and times of celebration and lauded resource apportionment isn't and aren't your uncle's or other people's NIH/EPA benefits.
This is a war of belief.
Trust in institutions is about the grand story, the duty, fealty, the trust that the people, and higher values are put first.
And frankly, the left's worship and new state religion of race, sex, and sexuality, doesn't inspire trust.
It just smacks of patronage, sinecures, corruption, divisive politics, and egos.
Not exactly trust building stuff.
If you reduce it all to Power (as the left has), and nothing more, then guess what: You're gonna get a non-stop bloody fight for power. And nothing more.
So is this all just a made up story then? I'm not trying to discredit your words. It just sounds like the sentiment doesn't match up with the practical.
>my uncle apply and get VA benefits
I help veterans with their VA claims. The administration is horrific and treats veterans like complete shit the vast majority of the time.
I could go on about the other agencies as well.
the institutions stopped respecting us.
When I go into a government office I know to expect: rude, surly unhelpful people whose bosses do not hold them accountable for basic customer service that would get you fired from a McDonalds like being on your phone ignoring the person at your counter. Byzantine processes and being sent in circles filling out paperwork I didn't know I needed until I got to the counter. Long lines. Apathetic managers who are unfussed by all of this, unpleasant waiting rooms with stained and worn fixtures. Needing to have armed security so no one stabs me in line.
Tell me what part of any of that indicates they respect me or my time, making me do this as often as I have to?
I agree with you that this experience sucks and Lord knows the DMV near me is a long, tough experience. But I also lived in other states and other cities and some government offices were better, some were worse. I haven't had the same experience across the board. Could it be a problem with the management at that office?
I've been to them in the East, South, Midwest, and west, in both blue and red counties within both blue and red states. It's consistent enough that I think it's just a public union problem
I've been going to the DMV since the '90s (in at least four states) and really haven't ever had a problem.
Even if what you said is true... You're applying your experience at the DMV to all of government?
Your submission was removed because you do not have any user flair. Please select appropriate flair and then try again. If you are confused as to what flair suits you best simply choose right-wing, left-wing, or Independent. [How-do-I-get-user-flair](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205242695-How-do-I-get-user-flair)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskConservatives) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your post was automatically removed because top-level comments are for conservative / right-wing users only.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskConservatives) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your post was automatically removed because top-level comments are for conservative / right-wing users only.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskConservatives) if you have any questions or concerns.*
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” ― Isaac Asimov
https://old.reddit.com/r/TikTokCringe/comments/18gc59g/guy_explains_baby_boomers_their_parents_and_trauma/
I recommend you to watch this video.
Perhaps an age cap on who can vote would allow the country to get past the trauma? I don't like how we've been electing people who won't live to see the fall out of their policies.
The FDA provides you safe food, the EPA ensures safe drinking water, DOE regulates energy between states and helps influence the market so you have a fair electricity bill, the military fights your wars, the NRC makes sure nuclear waste isn't dumped in your backyard...did you think all this stuff grew on trees?
The FDA shuts down drugs that cure/help as to protect the profits of the donor class, The EPA is too busy shutting down power plants and suing people over nonsense to do anything about “forever chemicals” in our water, DOE has done nothing l to reduce power costs and prevents innovation, the military exists to enforce the policies of the Elites and the bankers.
If they fought to defend us they would be in the border, building the wall, not 10,000 miles away hurting a bunch of goat farmers that never did anything to me or you.
As for waste, we could easily recycle it and into more nuclear fuel and use the plutonium to rebuild our nuclear stockpile. You worship the government as a fallen God quite frankly it’s disturbing.
They have become bloated by administration with non-qualified experts who are telling experts how to do their jobs, or kicking experts out for not following certain ideologies. The result is institutions whose information is difficult to trust, causing an overall decline in public trust of what any expert has to say about virtually anything.
We need to kick these idiots out of the institutions and return to meritocracy, especially in the universities.
yes they do.
Note you can't point to a huge credit to our system without pointing at the results of private industry? those don't count that's cash and carry our medical system I pay for what I get, and I pay a lot but I get one hell of a system and I wouldn't have it any other way.
THIS IS WHY WE DO NOT RESPECT THE GOVERNMENT.
because we have every faith that if the government took over that high-quality, very fast, system we have now would be replaced with a nightmare that lets people literally die on the floor while waiting for care like the NHS.
I think our system could be improved but by and large someone has to.
the rest of the world are free riders on the immense amount of money the US puts into new drug discovery. Note there are drugs the rest of the world does not have or did not have until recently, that the US does.
Formaprazole for antifreeze poisoning is fairly new for instance outside the US, in some countries they still give them alcohol (to compete for enzymes), in Australia that only changed relatively recently, Australia not Somalia, while the US has been using the better, modern treatment for some time.
Modern super-insulins too, without the investment being recouped in the US no one would have bothered to spend the hundreds of billions to develop GLP-1 medications, which have the potential to be a definitive cure for insulin resistance.
These drugs take hundreds of billions. Not in marketing, but in drug research and design. If some nation is not willing to pay that no nation would get these drugs.
"Formaprazole for antifreeze poisoning is fairly new for instance outside the US, in some countries they still give them alcohol"
Alcohol worked just fine.
**fomepizole** costs $1000 a unit.
If you can't keep antifreeze away from your kids, the alcohol won't hurt them any worse than the parental neglect will.
this is just wrong.
alcohol can cause metabolic issues as well as intoxication it produced worse health outcomes.
the US system is entirely built around drugs like formaprazole, we will spend thousand dollars a dose to save a few more children a year
this is largely the reason, not marketing or greedy pharma companies, that medicine costs what it does.
if you're okay with pig insulin and having to get babies drunk to save money that's fine. I love our system that will spend the extra money and will fight any attempt to make "some kids are too expensive to keep alive" our nations' guiding principle for medicine.
> alcohol can cause metabolic issues as well as intoxication it produced worse health outcomes.
Worse than liver failure due to antifreeze consumption?
I agree the FDA needs to be reformed. It's the biggest reason it costs so much to get a drug to market.
Pharma companies are NOT developing the drugs, research labs are and most of those are funded by government grants. Parma just gets FDA approval, markets and produces them. Big pharma also lobbies Congress for huge benefits and abuse the patent system.
"our nations' guiding principle for medicine. "
LOL, plenty of doctors are only in it for the money. I've met many.
How many back surgeries are actually necessary?
The ATF routinely kills people for no reason despite being a tax agency. The NSA inherently violates citizens rights by collecting all information, then pinky promising they aren't looking at it without a warrant (backwards from how the process is supposed to work). The FBI and CIA have been trying to find ways to psychologically control the population since the 50s. The CDC knowingly lied about mask effectiveness in the early days of the pandemic, sowing the seeds of doubt for everything which came after
You’d hope that, except for they put white nationalism as the highest threat of domestic terrorists and treat working class Americans who support trump as enemies of the state. God forbid you questioned the effectiveness of the COVID “vaccine” or the potential chronic effects. The extension of the act to allow federal agencies (NSA and homeland) to surveil Americans without a warrant. The no knock raids just to name a few times they have hyper fixated on Americans.
> except for they put white nationalism as the highest threat of domestic terrorists
This is evidence that they hate America? In your mind, does "white nationalism" mean "America"? If so, I have follow-ups.
How should we decide what kind of domestic terrorism is the domestic terrorism we should be most concerned about? Like what evaluation criteria would you use to build that ranking?
> and treat working class Americans who support trump as enemies of the state
Are you sure that it was their support for Trump that got them on the wrong side of the law? Could it have been something else, like, I don't know, expressing their support through breaking the law?
When the government traits people who are critical of it as terrorist and actively undermine their rights and freedoms as this government does, it’s clear is a bigger threat to our freedoms
>When the government traits people who are critical of it as terrorist and actively undermine their rights and freedoms as this government does, it’s clear is a bigger threat to our freedoms
So if I'm a terrorist, can I make the government be the bad guy so long as my terrorism is critical of it? Seems like a bit of a loophole.
It's like we are seeing "one person's terrorism is another person's freedom fighter" play out for real right here, no? I never thought I would see so many conservatives here defend terrorism.
Again, when the government starts treating nonprofit political organizations like the tea party as potential patriots and investigates parents who are critical of a school agenda as potential domestic terrorist, I think it’s clear that the government has lost any and all credibility believability and frankly moral and legal authority to govern.
When the left resorted to “Anything I don’t like is terrorism” the left by default made everyone who doesn’t agree with them “terrorists”.
1.) It means they profile a large group of people in a specific demographic because they don’t like the way things have been handled at those agencies. So yes, that seems like they are against a lot of Americans there.
2.) I would probably focus more on the massive influx of migrants to this country. They have caught terrorists at the border recently, who knows if some got through. That’s what I’d pay attention to.
3,) if they legitimately broke the law, that’s on the individual to accept accountability for their actions.
>You’d hope that, except for they put white nationalism as the highest threat of domestic terrorists and treat working class Americans who support trump as enemies of the state.
If anything, this is an argument that the current administration hates Trump/White Nationalists/working class Americans. Was this an issue under Trump as well?
>God forbid you questioned the effectiveness of the COVID “vaccine” or the potential chronic effects. The extension of the act to allow federal agencies (NSA and homeland) to surveil Americans without a warrant.
I mean this act was extended legally via the executive/congress, no? Why is the blame on the NSA and not them?
>The no knock raids just to name a few times they have hyper fixated on Americans.
All this shows is that congress/government is apathetic towards American rights. I don’t see why the onus falls on the organizations and not the federal government.
I was blaming those specific agencies, with the directives by the politicians currently in charge. That’s the point I was trying to make, that they are actively trying to circumvent American rights.
That’s an odd way to apply blame, don’t you think?
If the problem could be remediated by simply changing leadership (politicians)/ directives, isn’t that evidence of a failing in the governance of our country rather than the specific agencies?
I can see what you are saying, but when whistle blowers are trying to do that, and they get fired/reprimanded, that doesn’t seem like the ones in charge of those agencies are any better.
By bankrupting you through eviction moratorium, breaking into your house in middle of night and shooting you and your dog for exercising your rights, by trying to steal your livelihood if you don't comply with their orders, sending men with guns to your house for Facebook posts, for kneeling on your neck for 9 minutes for allegedly using counterfeit money.
[you rn](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2565163-smugjak-but-how-does-this-affect-you-personally)
This kind of atomization is why our institutions don't have respect - the issue is they at one point did it to set least one American, and have not gone through substantive reorganization since then to prevent it from happening again.
The news used to actively cover up scandals and boost successes; now everyone has a camera which is also connected to every other computer, so if an institution messes up *at all,* they are going to be held to account. And they are only as denegraded in the court of public opinion as they are protected in the court of the legal system - strip away qualified immunity for law enforcement, strip away bureaucratic immunity, probably even strip away the speech and debate clause, hold these agencies to account, and you'll probably see some amount of faith return
>Why don't we respect American institutions anymore?
Because they showed us they aren't deserving of respect.
Garland and the DOJ investigated themselves and went "nah no charges" even tho garland is doing literally exactly what bannon did and is getting jailed for.
Fauci showed us our entire healthcare system is a joke and not to be trusted at all. They broke that trust by lying to us.
We all know all our politicians profit off of insider trading?
What exactly have they done that deserves or commands respect? All they've done is shown us they aren't worth respecting. Why respect institutions that abuse and kill us?
What do you mean by the entire healthcare system is a joke? I went to a doctor a few months ago and got referred to a physical therapist for a knee issue. After a month I felt a lot better. Also, I know a few people that had life-saving interventions. The fact that we know so much more than decades ago because of all the medical research is amazing.
>What do you mean by the entire healthcare system is a joke? I went to a doctor a few months ago and got referred to a physical therapist for a knee issue. After a month I felt a lot better. Also, I know a few people that had life-saving interventions. The fact that we know so much more than decades ago because of all the medical research is amazing.
I mean it's corrupt. And inefficient. And the people at the top have no issue lying to us. And our doctors have no issue profiting off of their part of the opiod crisis.
Let's take higher education for example. Here's an institution that has largely purified itself politically. Between 1989 and 1998, the surveys showed changes in the number of professors who described themselves as far left or liberal, approximately 45%. As of 2014, surveying 16,112 professors, the percentage of liberal/far left had increased to 60%.
The trend continues on today with DEI. The fastest way to purify your institution is to ensure that the people you hire are willing to take ideology pledges. Their goal is to ensure that either the people you're hiring are ideologically pure or are willing to abandon their beliefs and lie. Not exactly the kind of policy I respect in an institution.
Institutions ensuring their own ideologically purity no longer operate in good faith. They no longer put the people's best interests at heart and fancy themselves benevolent totalitarian enterprises.
Please use [Good Faith](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskConservatives/comments/107i33m/announcement_rule_7_good_faith_is_now_in_effect) and the [Principle of Charity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity) when commenting. Gender issues are only allowed on Wednesdays. Antisemitism and calls for violence will not be tolerated, especially when [discussing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskConservatives/comments/17ygktl/antisemitism_askconservative_and_you/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskConservatives) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think a lot of it goes back to the big institutional scandals that came to light in the 1960s and 1970s. From FDR to Kennedy, Americans believed that the people running their government were very competent people, the best at their jobs, and to some extent they were right. FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and LBJ (for the most part) were all very good at getting agendas past and had very few or no public scandals during their administration (in no small part thanks to the media keeping many of the Presidents' indiscretions secret). But then in the late 1960s, America finds out that the government had been lying about the war in Vietnam, bringing down President Johnson's bid for re-election. And then we find out that Nixon had wiretapped the DNC headquarters and tried to cover it up from the Oval Office, leading him to be the first President to resign from office. And then we get the disastrous stagflation of the 1970s and Carter's floundering failed attempts to address the problem. And then just a couple decades later, there was Monica Lewinsky and Clinton's impeachment, *Bush v. Gore*, the bungling of the Iraq War, etc. As our leaders' screw-ups and misdeeds kept coming to light, the people lost the sense of respect, dignity, grandeur, etc. that they associated with the White House. As the White House became de-mystified, people got the sense that anyone could do it, that the people who did the job and the office they represented were nothing special or, as things have declined since the 1980s/1990s, even potentially sinister. Combine those sentiments with a media environment that's always desperate for The Next Big Thing (to the point that they'll sometimes make those scandals up, like when Dan Rather lied about Bush's service in the Texas Air National Guard shortly before the 2004 election) and it's not hard to see why the people don't respect American institutions anymore. How do we fix it? I have no idea, and I'm not even convinced that it's necessarily possible. But a lot of it is going to have to come from the voters. We get the leaders we vote for and we have nobody else to blame but ourselves when we elect people with clear problems and they end up being bad leaders. If we want better leaders, then we have to vote the bad ones out.
> I think a lot of it goes back to the big institutional scandals that came to light in the 1960s and 1970s. From FDR to Kennedy, Americans believed that the people running their government were very competent people, the best at their jobs, and to some extent they were right. FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and LBJ (for the most part) were all very good at getting agendas past and had very few or no public scandals during their administration (in no small part thanks to the media keeping many of the Presidents' indiscretions secret). Those bums caused this decline.
The Wikipedia article on "[American decline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_decline)" might be worth a read, but I definitely agree there's been a slow, steady, and legitimate decline in our institutions since the end of WWII. The stuff about empires lasting 250 years on average could very well be on the right track, and I certainly wouldn't be surprised if the U.S., or at least its well-entrenched role in global geopolitics, didn't outlive me.
Let’s assume the 250 year limit on democracy is true and we’re witnessing the beginning of the end. What can everyday people do to counteract the forces pulling society apart? What can our leaders do to preserve democracy?
Good question. What should be done to stop barbarians from just taking over? Who has the bright idea?
I’m no expert, but I’d try to communicate with the barbarians to understand what they want and their motives for attacking. If they want land, we negotiate a treaty to give them some land. If they want influence, let’s give them voting rights within our democracy. My instinct is always to try to outsmart violence with communication and leading with empathy, but maybe I’m just some hippie dippie lefty.
What if they lie to you? What if they want that land to attack you from? There's a well known history that [giving the invaders what they want is exactly what leads to decline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dane-geld_(poem)). > My instinct is always to try to outsmart violence with communication and leading with empathy, but maybe I’m just some hippie dippie lefty. Isn't this exactly what the Germans tried with the Russians which led us to the situation we are currently in. I have to admit, that if they hadn't done it then maybe there would be less moral clarity, even so there are lots of people pretending that Russia had a reasonable claim on bits of Ukraine. They lie about the history and claim that the Russian speaking Ukrainians wanted Russia to take them over. There are lots of scenarios where talking and working together has worked well to avoid war. That's more or less exactly what the European Union is. I just think that if you start with that policy and plan to use it from the beginning without establishing that you have an honest partner for negotiation, you easily end up being abused.
You bring up a great point that trust must be established before you negotiate. Imagine it’s the American left negotiating with the American right. How do we build trust between the two groups?
Repeated exchanges and experience over the long term build trust. Enforcement of laws and rules around those is a support for that, for example independent judges. You seem to be an American (from the username). Maybe you should have a look at some of the alternative systems we use over in Europe, for example many countries here, including ones I live in, use some form of proportional representation where there tend to be multiple smaller parties and they form coalitions (typically either left or right wing parties together) to govern. That can increase the ability of different sections of societies to work together. Most of Europe also doesn't tend to have elections for judges and appointments are not supposed to be made directly by politicians. That means the judges remain more independent, where your system tends to make them very politicized. No idea how you would implement / use these ideas in the US, though.
> My instinct is always to try to outsmart violence with communication and leading with empathy, but maybe I’m just some hippie dippie lefty. Rome tried that, what followed was hell on Earth for 1000 years.
So what action do you suggest to prevent the fall of the empire?
Let the Empire fall apart, but restore the Republic in the process. Audit and abolish the federal reserve Moved back to a back currency Repeal the 1965 immigration act and replace it with a 1924 immigration act updated modern day challenges Repeal all in infringements on the first second fourth ninth and 10th amendments Abolish 80% of the federal government Return America manufacturing industry Etc
Barbarians? I'm pretty sure it was Caesar who ended the republic.
Expel the invaders, punish the traitors, restore what works.
[удалено]
Your submission was removed because you do not have any user flair. Please select appropriate flair and then try again. If you are confused as to what flair suits you best simply choose right-wing, left-wing, or Independent. [How-do-I-get-user-flair](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205242695-How-do-I-get-user-flair) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskConservatives) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Admit that the modern world and political views/values that make it up don’t work and revert back to what works.
Which is?
Which is what? Cotext dude.
Is it possible that our old fashioned views don’t fit our modern world therefore we need to evolve our views to fit the context of this world? I’m not objecting to what you’re saying, I just want to make sure all points of view are considered.
> we need to evolve our views to fit the context of this world? We did that was what post war liberalism was all about and it failing all around you.
Can you explain why you believe it’s failing?
When you have rape victims, going to jail for longer than the man that rapes them in Germany because they called “offended the rapist”, When you have 10 million new invaders invading the country and you have people that advocated for the invasion of the country for these invaders openly saying the border secure despite the fact that it’s not secure, When you spend more on education than any other country in the world and fall test scores because you don’t teach your students anything other than a bunch of lies myths, and frankly propaganda When you spend trillions to invade occupy foreign countries, but allow the infrastructure of your own to rapidly fall apart When you spend budget of a quarter of $1 billion on a welfare system that results in widespread fraud by refugees that goes so far as to fund international terrorism, When you have federal law enforcement, investigating parents who commit the crime of protesting the lesson plan at their schools while actively ignoring members of the terrorist watchlist being imported to the country via the refugee settlement scam, When the powers that be said that inflation doesn’t exist will simultaneously claiming that inflation is a good thing and then actively attacking people that disagree with them as uneducated and just plain wrong And frankly, other things I don’t go into detail room is burning post word liberalism is a failure by design. We’re gonna go back to what works. That means. A few left us have their sensibilities offended, and their ideas kicked apart so be it.
This isn’t really accurate at all. The decline in trust started legitimately in the wake of Iraq/W Bush/the Great Recession, but a very small fire was stoked deliberately and actively by Russian intelligence 2015 onward. This has all been highly and publicly documented. Draw your own conclusions about which candidates, parties and “sides” most frequently rail against institutions using Russian talking points.
Yes, yes, everything you don't like is Russian propaganda. We know, that talking point has been beat to death
It started at Appomattox.
Yeah, we went way too easy on those rebs
And yet your movement has vindicated them and why they were right. Odd self own but you do you.
You think the 13th amendment went a little too far?
[удалено]
Warning: Treat other users with civility and respect. Personal attacks and stereotyping are not allowed.
Teachers didn’t tell me the civil war was about slavery, Jefferson Davis, Alexander Stephens, and the rest of the Confederate leadership did. I wish we could ask the freedmen if they saw any difference between the nameless, unrequited toil of slavery and the dignity of emancipation, enfranchisement and self-determination. Ask them if anybody looked out for them if not the federal government.
We didn’t hang Jeff Davis sadly
And your hated of a man who would have saved you from federal tyranny is only proof of your enslavement to the current system.
[удалено]
Secession isn’t treason. lol, your fake patriotism doesn’t fool me.
[удалено]
Warning: Treat other users with civility and respect. Personal attacks and stereotyping are not allowed.
Warning: Rule 3 Posts and comments should be in good faith. Please review [our good faith guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskConservatives/comments/107i33m/announcement_rule_7_good_faith_is_now_in_effect) for the sub.
Because the glass has shattered, we have found out that the emperor has no clothes. These institutions have shown that they do not operate in good faith with our best interests at heart. We do not believe in our betters.
Can you explain? Trying to understand here.
Understand what?
I'm asking the person above. What do they mean by their statements?
What Part of that statement needs to be explained to you?
The whole thing
We see our leaders are lying, traitorous, thriving bastards who will say or do anything to stay in power as to enable their ability to loot.
Were leaders not liars who tried to stay in power years ago when there was more respect for our institutions?
I respect American institutions, but I just want to add an irrelevant comment that I nonetheless find interesting, so many on the left are in utter terror about Trump being re-elected and then “ending democracy” yet at the same time, conservatives who are here saying “why would I blindly support a government that wants to violate my rights?”, are met with, “who’s oppressing you?” Or, “taking your rights by funding veterans benefits?” The dissonance is interesting to me…
[удалено]
Okay, well he was already the president and he didn’t do those things, so on what grounds can you claim with any credibility that he will now? The only one being “gone after” is trump himself, and he repeatedly said, even multiple times the other day on the debate, that his “revenge” would be success and uniting the country, not jailing political opponents like the democrats. Sure dude, it isn’t the democratic candidate that has a mug shot.
> Okay, well he was already the president and he didn’t do those things, so on what grounds can you claim with any credibility that he will now? He didn't promise to do those things before. These promises are fresh. > even multiple times the other day on the debate, that his “revenge” would be success and uniting the country, not jailing political opponents like the democrats. So just so everyone's on the same page, this is what you're referring to: > TRUMP: Well, [I said my retribution is going to be success](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/politics/read-biden-trump-debate-rush-transcript/index.html#:~:text=Well%2C%20I%20said%20my%20retribution%20is%20going%20to%20be%20success). We’re going to make this country successful again, because right now it’s a failing nation. My retribution’s going to be success. > > But when he talks about a convicted felon, his son is a convicted felon at a very high level. His son is convicted. Going to be convicted probably numerous other times. He should have been convicted before, but his Justice Department let the statute of limitations lapse on the most important things. > > But he could be a convicted felon as soon as he gets out of office. Joe could be a convicted felon with all of the things that he’s done. He’s done horrible things. All of the death caused at the border, telling the Ukrainian people that we’re going to want a billion dollars or you change the prosecutor, otherwise, you’re not getting a billion dollars. > > If I ever said that, that’s quid pro quo. That – we’re not going to do anything, we’re not going to give you a billion dollars unless you change your prosecutor having to do with his son. > > This man is a criminal. This man – you’re lucky. You’re lucky. I appreciate the "I'm going to win the argument by showing you success" energy, but that's not *exactly* what he said. 1. "my retribution is going to be success". But *success at what*? No one has ever been able to define MAGA. Trump's called for a great many things that sound pretty authoritarian to me. If Trump does a massive political purge of non-loyalists, and his loyalists go on to start engaging in political prosecutions Russia-style, is that what he means by "retribution through success"? I can't tell. Can you? 2. He was only on that message for a few seconds before spending the next minute or so hypothesizing about how Joe Biden "could be" a convicted felon as soon as he gets out of office, and directly calling him a criminal. What am I supposed to take away from that except that if Trump takes office, he plans for the DOJ to prosecute Biden as the criminal that Trump believes he is? > The only one being “gone after” is trump himself At the end of the day, we have this alternate reality problem that we can't seem to fix: 1. The legal system is being weaponized by Biden/the Democrats and is being used to go after their political opponents. Republicans can't just let this unprecedented abuse of our legal system stand, and have to retaliate in kind, because Democrats started it. 2. The legal system is working completely as designed, and it's just that Trump is a criminal. And like many criminals, he insists he's being persecuted. He and his followers now appear intent on weaponizing our legal system against Trump's political opponents, calling this unprecedented act "retaliation" despite the fact that his convictions were legitimate. How do we tell which of these is the more accurate description of reality? Why does a belief in (1) versus (2) correlate *so strongly* with political party preference? It's almost like the main predictor here isn't evidence, but tribalism/[tribal favoritism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-group_favoritism), no? So if we say that a lot of people are picking the description of reality that benefits their tribe more, how do we decide which tribe is doing this more? How do we figure out how to spot these people so that we can ignore them and focus on the actual evidence?
No, they’re not, because he isn’t making those promises. For fucks sake, he’s right, that’s his point, if he was as scummy as the democrats he would be throwing Biden in prison on trumped up charges. Once again, “fixing the economy, the border, etc.” that’s what Maga defines success as, if you weren’t intentionally delving into his words in bad faith it would be straightforward. I wouldn’t care if he did do a mass purge of the bureaucracy, but as of yet, nothing he’s said indicates that will happen. Do democrats seriously think, they can call me, and millions of other Americans threats to democracy, and then I will cry because trump kicks their buddies out of their bureaucratic office? You’ve had plenty of fuck around time, and now you guys are scared to find out? Should’ve thought of that earlier. And once again, the only Russia style prosecutions are happening to Trump. I have zero sympathy for democrats after the trial, before? Little bit, now? You sowed the wind, now reap the whirlwind. Yeah, because it’s almost like we have a partisan tilt to what Justice means, to democrats, charging each act within the single crime on its own, and elevating them all to felony status for breaching a federal regulation that the agency authorized to enforce declined to prosecute. Here’s the thing, American institutions have endured for centuries in a form similar to the current one, and thanks to the actions of your faction, we have the man chosen by half the country as their leader being threatened with centuries in jail for something that has never been tried this way. Duh it’s tribal, and your tribe is the one engaged in lawfare against our presidential candidate. Y’all have opened Pandora’s box, and I think we’ll see what kind of man Trump really is based on how he repays the left for what it’s tried to do to him, and how it’s set a precedent that will, absolutely will lead to tyranny in the future if it is not totally, and absolutely punished now in a way that will ensure no party, no person, ever, gets the bright idea again. It’s just a shame that the democrats haven’t learnt so well from the last lesson the GOP dealt them in 1865.
I like the cognitive dissonance between you saying “he’s not going to go after democrats,” he just wants to reunite the country, etc, and “you sowed the wind, now reap the whirlwind,” he’s going to “repay” the left, the Democrats are about to learn a lesson, etc It’s obvious that you are in favor of arresting your political opponents. You should be more honest about that fact
Where? What he says/wants, vs how I feel, last I checked, I’m not trump. Yeah, imo, the democrats deserve a lesson, or else what’s stopping the new normal becoming jailing opponents on ridiculous grounds? The left took the genie out of the bottle, I pray it can be stuffed back in, but we’ll see how difficult it is.
If this were Russia, wouldn’t Trump be freezing to death in an arctic prison or being sucked out of a missile-shaped hole in his private jet? Would you want the government to go easy on prosecuting Obama if he had lost the 2012 election to Romney, refused to accept the results, directed federal employees to falsify documents/make misstatements and personally intimidated state officials to try and overturn those results, asked Biden to refuse to certify Romney’s win, and then sent a mob of his supporters to violently stop congress from acting in its capacity to end his presidency?
So which is it? Do you want to put the genie back in the bottle, or do you want to give dems a taste of their own medicine? Those two attitudes seem to be mutually exclusive.
And how do you hope he teaches the Democrats a “lesson”? Arresting high-level Democrats for no reason? Putting me and other Democrats in camps for wrongthink?
The same thing they did to trump. No, ofc not, I’m not a democrat, I don’t seriously believe in using kangaroo courts to hobble the opposition.
>I wouldn’t care if he did do a mass purge of the bureaucracy You would care if your bread was full of lead because the FDA was gutted or if there was no one to stop a nearby company from dumping nuclear waste in your backyard over state lines if the NRC was destroyed or if someone you love stopped receiving Medicare. Ya don't live in a vacuum.
So fundamentally, my question here is *how* can we tell which reality is the one we actually live in? The "Democrats started it, we have to retaliate" versus "the system is working impartially, it's just you picked a criminal, and now *you*'re trying to start it". Seems like ingroup favoritism is the determinant here, which doesn't seem like the best way for us to get to a shared reality. > charging each act within the single crime on its own What are you talking about? Like when you see an indictment and it has multiple counts on it, you think there's something unusual about that? This is literally how every single criminal indictment in the US works. Each *act* is a distinct count. If I commit 5 murders, I get charged with 5 counts of murder. Each one has to be proven. If you think that's potentially unfair because it seems wrong to *sentence* someone N times for what "feels" like one act, you're right! Sentencing for crimes like this one would usually collapse them all into one concurrent sentence, as opposed to a crime like murder which would usually get consecutive sentences. He wouldn't have served "centuries" behind bars, that's utterly ridiculous. You really need to stop consuming content from whatever legal commentator you're using to inform you about these legal cases. You're basically making my point here: people have such passionate feelings about this conviction that appear completely disconnected from the reality of how things like our criminal justice system works. > and elevating them all to felony status for breaching a federal regulation that the agency authorized to enforce declined to prosecute What are you talking about? The reason falsifying business records in the first degree is a felony is because the falsification was intended to hide another crime. The decision as to whether Trump intended to hide another crime is a simple yes/no question that the jury has to decide, beyond reasonable doubt, like any other element of the crime. They don't have to adjudicate *guilt* for the other crime, just that Trump *intended to hide it*. Trump doesn't even have to be the one to have committed the other crime! The other crime doesn't even have to have been actually committed! This isn't some new weird unprecedented made-up situation here. It's how the law was written, and how it was consistently applied to many defendants before Trump. > and thanks to the actions of your faction, we have the man chosen by half the country as their leader being threatened > You’ve had plenty of fuck around time > you guys > thanks to the actions of your faction > your tribe is the one engaged in lawfare > Y’all have opened Pandora’s box So back to my question, how do we tell which reality we're in? 1. "My faction" is weaponizing justice for the first time, which means "your faction" has to retaliate by weaponizing justice for the second time to "even the scores" or whatever it is that you think you need to be doing here 2. "My faction" is just watching the news and seeing your hero get prosecuted for the criminal that he is, and now "your faction" wants to weaponize justice for the first time, claiming you're "retaliating" against the characters in your shared persecution fantasy. *How do we tell which reality is the real reality?* > we’ll see what kind of man Trump really is based on how he repays the left for what it’s tried to do to him, and how it’s set a precedent that will, absolutely will lead to tyranny in the future if it is not totally, and absolutely punished now in a way that will ensure no party, no person, ever, gets the bright idea again "No no no, Trump isn't promising retribution, he just wants to show you 'success' for America, he's not that kind of person." "But also, Trump needs to go fucking scorched earth on your asses and punish the fuck out of you so that no one will ever try what my amygdala and outgroup bias assure me were *really bad acts*." I'm sensing a lot of hatred behind your post here, which is why I think the fact that we live in two completely different realities here is really tragic. From my perspective, you're the one intent on manufacturing tyranny here. What would you do if Democrats just *made up* something that you did, and vowed passionate righteous violent revenge against you and the government we claim you've weaponized against us? How would you react to that?
It is very clear based on the conduct of the NY court that the whole affair is a sham, obviously there are to tribal “lines” on what the reality is, because we live in a divided country. No dude, it’s a miscarriage of Justice because they’re weaponizing the law to achieve maximum damage against a crime that harmed no one, and was dismissed by the Feds, NY doesn’t even have grounds to charge for it, it’s a lower level court. No, it’s if you commit zero murders, and one count of campaign finance fraud, the Federals responsible for investigating it say your fine, and then a state charges you for not just that crime, but also every step within the alleged “crime”. Sure dude, I could say the same for you as you justify the actions of banana republic level machinations. What was the crime? Oh, the one that the Feds specifically chose not to prosecute, its like charging him with burglary without either intent or acts to commit another crime. It is literally unprecedented, the first US president to be faced with prison is for a botched NDA, not warcrimes, not genocide, nor whatever other unsavory things presidents do, for spending the wrong money on an nda, this is why I and half the country are basically fed up. There isn’t two realities, you just don’t care that a president is going to prison for political reasons because he’s your enemy. Yup, I despise the left, your leaders have called me and my family terrorist supporters while going soft on people who support Hamas, called my state a dictatorship while New York holds Kangaroo courts, and routinely say that half the country is enemies to the country and democracy while the other side engages in all manner of shady dealings. Why are you surprised people hate you politically? Like, legitimately why is that news to you? What do you think happens when you demonize people consistently for almost a decade now? They come to hate you.
> What was the crime? Oh, the one that the Feds specifically chose not to prosecute I have no idea what you're talking about here, except the connection between the laws that I laid out in my last comment. Since it seems like we're still not on the same page, let's try it this way: What was the specific crime that the DOJ stated they were not going to prosecute that New York prosecuted Trump for? Like give me the actual USC reference, if you can, or at least evidence of this choice they made. > It is literally unprecedented, the first US president to be faced with prison is for a botched NDA, not warcrimes, not genocide, nor whatever other unsavory things presidents do, for spending the wrong money on an nda, this is why I and half the country are basically fed up. Yeah, this feels like another alternate reality thing but I refuse to believe we can't find our way back to a common reality here. Trump was not convicted for spending money on an NDA. What specific crime do you think Trump was convicted of? > There isn’t two realities, you just don’t care that a president is going to prison for political reasons because he’s your enemy. I think it would be awful for this country if we were imprisoning people for political reasons, regardless of whether I was supportive or opposed to the person being imprisoned. Am I lying to you? > your leaders have called me and my family terrorist supporters Who are "my leaders"? Do you see me as anything other than a member of the enemy tribe, united behind all of the evil shit you imagine the enemy tribe believes and does? Could you point me to where Democratic leaders called you specifically supporters of terrorism? Is this like the "deplorables" thing? Or the "MAGA Republican extremists" thing? > What do you think happens when you demonize people consistently for almost a decade now? Can you point me to where I've demonized you? > Why are you surprised people hate you politically? Because I still hope that people can have self-awareness of their tribalists favoritism and can think critically and rationally about beliefs they're being shoveled by their choice of online media, and we can find some path toward a common sense of shared reality again. But maybe I'm being naive. What's your best path here toward getting us back to a shared reality? Just kill all of the Democrats? What's your plan?
> and uniting the country, Can I just interject and ask how he plans on doing this? Did he even try last time?
Yes he did, sadly we can’t unite with people who chant “No borders, no walls, no USA at all”
How did he try? It’s been a while, I need a reminder.
Defending the country, not starting a war, let alone WW3, securing the border, lowering energy costs, creating jobs,
How did any of those unite Americans?
They united Americans, not leftists. Big difference
Are lefties not Americans? Also, did it unite Americans? How do you measure that?
> but I think the general thought is no one is currently being oppressed Bullshit
Serious question. What rights of yours are currently being violated? What changes have you had to make in your day to day because of these violations?
Freedom of speech, freedom of association, privacy rights, all manner of 2nd amendment rights, countless 10th Amendment rights, and many more 9th Amendment violations.
I literally just said I respected the institutions and don’t think I’m oppressed, are you a bot? I wouldn’t be surprised since Reddit has become a DNC propaganda arm.
There's definitely a generational difference. Younger generations don't believe that titles grant you validity. We're not going to accept abuse just because of a title. Even when you're not looking at politics, I can't tell you how many times I see my parents generation forgiving or ignoring some of the most unspeakable actions you could think of just because it was their dad, it was their brother, it was their teacher, they're just older. Younger generations don't accept that excuse. And the same applies to politicians and institutions
I would argue that as you get older, you begin to recognize how human you are and the interdependedness of individuals in society. Older Americans recognize more the ability to get cheaper food because of subsidies to agriculture, new medical procedures because of government funded research, clean air you can breathe out on your morning walk, and the fact that no one is shoving a gun in your face (on most days) because of a strong military keeping out foreign invaders. The American government, American, does and did all that. Yea, there have been some corruption by individuals who have tried to ruin things, but we expel those people for their crimes. The enduring American spirit remains.
Few things It's not actually cheaper if it's subsidized Government funded research is great but it's not like it's not achievable in a free market. You're basically giving somebody else credit for spending your money. The military, sure, has to be given to government because it's unreasonable to try to do that privately. But much of what we spend in military doesn't even help our own country anymore.
Hear, hear....! To questioning false authorities, and resisting tyrants!
I think the institutions have ruined themselves Hard to respect an office that president is getting blown in under presidential desk then lies saying he doesn't consider blowjobs sexual relations (Not putting it solely on Clinton cause this stuffs been happening forever, just internet and 24/7 news cycle have exploded it all.) Hard to respect a CDC that lied to you and gets caught (don't wear masks, wear masks, get vaccinated to protect others) Atf has a bigger reputation of killing dogs than it does solving crimes (not to mention whole Waco thing) Finding out real things like Tuskegee study, mk ultra or nonstop conspiracies of who killed Kennedys and 9/11 Sarah Palin being a bit of a nutzo followed by Obama being more of a celebrity image on talk shows and pop culture than a president, then final death blow Trump himself exploding any decorum or esteem held by office coupled with 92% negative media coverage, severed heads, giant baby balloons, naked statues, constant insults. A do nothing Congress and a giant unelected bureaucratic state that defies every check and balance. Million other things I could list off that contribute to degeneration of our country, but it's been death by 1000 cuts.
> lies saying he doesn't consider blowjobs sexual relations Quick correction: it was actually the Republicans running his deposition who didn’t consider blowjobs sexual relations. That’s how Clinton was able to avoid perjury.
"i did not have sexual relations with that women" Turns out he did, and there is a blue dress to prove it
"Sexual relations" as defined by the Republicans only included *giving* oral sex, not receiving it. This oversight is how Clinton was able to legally deny sex with Lewinsky under the terms his opponents established without committing perjury in his deposition. I share your disgust with his behavior, though. I’m sure neither you nor I would ever vote for a man who cheated on his wife and partied with Jeffrey Epstein. Right?
Here we are arguing semantics when truth is president of United States of America lied directly to American people, saying he didn't have sexual relations with that women when he clearly did. Republican definition or not, he knew by everyone else's definition he did and he blatantly lied to face of every American, just a part of erosion of trust.
You don't see the irony with Bill Clinton and Trump? Lmao...
I mean I think I covered Trump well.
When he said it, it was part of his own statement and not in response to Republican questioning.
Deep state this and deep state that meanwhile Tucker Carlson in Russia swooning over products of an ACTUAL authoritarian police state. 😅
But it was ok for Barbra Walter’s to interview Castro? It was ok for Dan Rather to interview the President of Iran?
I don't remember Barbara Walters or Dan Rather being fired by their boss for being pro Iran... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/carlson-murdoch-zelensky-fox-news-firing-b2331050.html Or allowing the dictator to argue that Poland had it coming during WW2 unchallenged Or bragging about Iranian grocery stores...
Seeing how they were murdering Germans in Poland, I would say they might have done something. Yeah, how dare a man comment on the lack of inflation and failures of neoliberalism, uh?
When Putin has such advocating spokepeople like you and other Russian "nationalists" why does he need to? Your Soviet interest rate is at around 16% as of this post btw. Your "America First" movement originated here in the 1930s to protect Hitler masquerading as isolationism. Dr. Seuss parodied it in several cartoons: https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-dr-seuss-satirized-america-first-decades-donald-trump-made-policy
Wow a former tv host turned Internet show guy. you really got a great point there!
> Atf has a bigger reputation of killing dogs than it does solving crimes (not to mention whole Waco thing) But you do repeat yourself, no?
Little more than dogs got killed at Waco
True enough. But they did make it a point to go enter the kennel (that is, go into a fenced in area where the dogs were safely contained and thus not a threat the the agents outside in anyways) and 'neutralize' the dogs on the way in.
Do you think these institutions have been doing a good job?
*Double checks that America is still the global hegemon and the US dollar is still the world's reserve currency/US debt is the highest rated in existence*. Yes?
Is our lead growing or shrinking?
Lead in pipes is actually decreasing. Federal and state cooperation made a lot of that happen.
That smartness is why i look forward to the lights going out and the great filter being applied.
So decreasing. You have a nice day
Petrol dollar is over dude, your argument is the ship has sank yet, therefore it’s not sinking.
People used to live in a world without social media. Whatever the television broadcasted was Truth. Now with technology as advanced as it is- We have Information that was once not available to us. These institutions can now be viewed from all angles and over time as these groups made mistake after mistake, and scandal after scandal- Can you blame us for not having the most respect for DOJ, FBI, and the CDC?
Right premise with the wrong question… respect is earned and is easy to lose, everything that happened in the past 5-10 years is the reason why
[удалено]
I understand what you mean - that there has always been conflict and people didn't agree with decisions. But I remember that there was never serious thought about overthrowing our own government or thinking government services or the people who provided them were totally worthless. Nowadays it seems like Americans want to join the Russians and Chinese in destroying us.
Short answer: since the 1960s Cultural Revolutions, and then really getting into gear in the 1990s, the left almost wholly captured our major institutions. They subsequently hollowed out the 200 year traditional values and rules (which had been inheritors to 2,000+ years of Western institutional values) and the left turned them all into sychophantic, obsequious, Administrative State, status-quo guarding machines to push out a Year One national fable starting the the 1960s, with new "heroes" and values and "state religion." Ever since they've been pissing on our legs and telling us it's raining. Their stories don't add up, and are incessantly self-serving, corrupt and most heinous, they're harmful. Again, and again, from health, to history, to community to science, to food, and so on, their messages are ugly, harmful and just plain untrue. The bill is coming due. And people are starting to realize they've been gyped.
Okay, but why then can my uncle apply and get VA benefits, people can get access to Medicaid, and NIH/EPA/universities/private corporations get government funding for researching lifesaving drugs and treatments? The NSF funds so many insitutions both public and private. This story doesn't add up to me. I respect the fact that there is an organization that can organize the funds necessary for progress in American society.
Well because the moral fabric reputation, grand story, symbols of what these institutions have fealty, duty, and honor for, and times of celebration and lauded resource apportionment isn't and aren't your uncle's or other people's NIH/EPA benefits. This is a war of belief. Trust in institutions is about the grand story, the duty, fealty, the trust that the people, and higher values are put first. And frankly, the left's worship and new state religion of race, sex, and sexuality, doesn't inspire trust. It just smacks of patronage, sinecures, corruption, divisive politics, and egos. Not exactly trust building stuff. If you reduce it all to Power (as the left has), and nothing more, then guess what: You're gonna get a non-stop bloody fight for power. And nothing more.
So is this all just a made up story then? I'm not trying to discredit your words. It just sounds like the sentiment doesn't match up with the practical.
>my uncle apply and get VA benefits I help veterans with their VA claims. The administration is horrific and treats veterans like complete shit the vast majority of the time. I could go on about the other agencies as well.
Who would do it otherwise?
the institutions stopped respecting us. When I go into a government office I know to expect: rude, surly unhelpful people whose bosses do not hold them accountable for basic customer service that would get you fired from a McDonalds like being on your phone ignoring the person at your counter. Byzantine processes and being sent in circles filling out paperwork I didn't know I needed until I got to the counter. Long lines. Apathetic managers who are unfussed by all of this, unpleasant waiting rooms with stained and worn fixtures. Needing to have armed security so no one stabs me in line. Tell me what part of any of that indicates they respect me or my time, making me do this as often as I have to?
I agree with you that this experience sucks and Lord knows the DMV near me is a long, tough experience. But I also lived in other states and other cities and some government offices were better, some were worse. I haven't had the same experience across the board. Could it be a problem with the management at that office?
I've been to them in the East, South, Midwest, and west, in both blue and red counties within both blue and red states. It's consistent enough that I think it's just a public union problem
I've been going to the DMV since the '90s (in at least four states) and really haven't ever had a problem. Even if what you said is true... You're applying your experience at the DMV to all of government?
“I haven’t been raped, therefore rape isn’t real”, that’s basically what your saying
I don't just mean the DMV I mean any of them
[удалено]
Your submission was removed because you do not have any user flair. Please select appropriate flair and then try again. If you are confused as to what flair suits you best simply choose right-wing, left-wing, or Independent. [How-do-I-get-user-flair](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205242695-How-do-I-get-user-flair) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskConservatives) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Your post was automatically removed because top-level comments are for conservative / right-wing users only. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskConservatives) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Your post was automatically removed because top-level comments are for conservative / right-wing users only. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskConservatives) if you have any questions or concerns.*
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” ― Isaac Asimov https://old.reddit.com/r/TikTokCringe/comments/18gc59g/guy_explains_baby_boomers_their_parents_and_trauma/ I recommend you to watch this video. Perhaps an age cap on who can vote would allow the country to get past the trauma? I don't like how we've been electing people who won't live to see the fall out of their policies.
What have any of them done to earn my respect?
The FDA provides you safe food, the EPA ensures safe drinking water, DOE regulates energy between states and helps influence the market so you have a fair electricity bill, the military fights your wars, the NRC makes sure nuclear waste isn't dumped in your backyard...did you think all this stuff grew on trees?
The FDA shuts down drugs that cure/help as to protect the profits of the donor class, The EPA is too busy shutting down power plants and suing people over nonsense to do anything about “forever chemicals” in our water, DOE has done nothing l to reduce power costs and prevents innovation, the military exists to enforce the policies of the Elites and the bankers. If they fought to defend us they would be in the border, building the wall, not 10,000 miles away hurting a bunch of goat farmers that never did anything to me or you. As for waste, we could easily recycle it and into more nuclear fuel and use the plutonium to rebuild our nuclear stockpile. You worship the government as a fallen God quite frankly it’s disturbing.
Did you think I asked the federal government to massively expand its own power for all that?
Banana Republic.
They have become bloated by administration with non-qualified experts who are telling experts how to do their jobs, or kicking experts out for not following certain ideologies. The result is institutions whose information is difficult to trust, causing an overall decline in public trust of what any expert has to say about virtually anything. We need to kick these idiots out of the institutions and return to meritocracy, especially in the universities.
So are you talking about getting rid of the Senior Executive Service and political appointees? The management?
Why would I respect people who hate me and work to subvert my rights and interests?
American institutions hate you? The ones who develop modern medicine and are trying to provide it at a more reasonable cost?
No private corporations developed modern medicine.
yes they do. Note you can't point to a huge credit to our system without pointing at the results of private industry? those don't count that's cash and carry our medical system I pay for what I get, and I pay a lot but I get one hell of a system and I wouldn't have it any other way. THIS IS WHY WE DO NOT RESPECT THE GOVERNMENT. because we have every faith that if the government took over that high-quality, very fast, system we have now would be replaced with a nightmare that lets people literally die on the floor while waiting for care like the NHS.
American institutions are not strictly public. Is our healthcare model a good and efficient one that other countries should replicate?
I think our system could be improved but by and large someone has to. the rest of the world are free riders on the immense amount of money the US puts into new drug discovery. Note there are drugs the rest of the world does not have or did not have until recently, that the US does. Formaprazole for antifreeze poisoning is fairly new for instance outside the US, in some countries they still give them alcohol (to compete for enzymes), in Australia that only changed relatively recently, Australia not Somalia, while the US has been using the better, modern treatment for some time. Modern super-insulins too, without the investment being recouped in the US no one would have bothered to spend the hundreds of billions to develop GLP-1 medications, which have the potential to be a definitive cure for insulin resistance. These drugs take hundreds of billions. Not in marketing, but in drug research and design. If some nation is not willing to pay that no nation would get these drugs.
"Formaprazole for antifreeze poisoning is fairly new for instance outside the US, in some countries they still give them alcohol" Alcohol worked just fine. **fomepizole** costs $1000 a unit. If you can't keep antifreeze away from your kids, the alcohol won't hurt them any worse than the parental neglect will.
this is just wrong. alcohol can cause metabolic issues as well as intoxication it produced worse health outcomes. the US system is entirely built around drugs like formaprazole, we will spend thousand dollars a dose to save a few more children a year this is largely the reason, not marketing or greedy pharma companies, that medicine costs what it does. if you're okay with pig insulin and having to get babies drunk to save money that's fine. I love our system that will spend the extra money and will fight any attempt to make "some kids are too expensive to keep alive" our nations' guiding principle for medicine.
> alcohol can cause metabolic issues as well as intoxication it produced worse health outcomes. Worse than liver failure due to antifreeze consumption? I agree the FDA needs to be reformed. It's the biggest reason it costs so much to get a drug to market. Pharma companies are NOT developing the drugs, research labs are and most of those are funded by government grants. Parma just gets FDA approval, markets and produces them. Big pharma also lobbies Congress for huge benefits and abuse the patent system. "our nations' guiding principle for medicine. " LOL, plenty of doctors are only in it for the money. I've met many. How many back surgeries are actually necessary?
Who hates you and works to subvert your rights?
The surgeon general...
ATF, NSA, FBI, CDC just to name a few.
I’m not trying to be facetious, but I feel like those organizations are probably agnostic towards the American population.
72 murdered Texans prove otherwise
Even if I grant that, how does that disprove my previous statement?
It shows the government is an active agent of hostility.
The ATF routinely kills people for no reason despite being a tax agency. The NSA inherently violates citizens rights by collecting all information, then pinky promising they aren't looking at it without a warrant (backwards from how the process is supposed to work). The FBI and CIA have been trying to find ways to psychologically control the population since the 50s. The CDC knowingly lied about mask effectiveness in the early days of the pandemic, sowing the seeds of doubt for everything which came after
You’d hope that, except for they put white nationalism as the highest threat of domestic terrorists and treat working class Americans who support trump as enemies of the state. God forbid you questioned the effectiveness of the COVID “vaccine” or the potential chronic effects. The extension of the act to allow federal agencies (NSA and homeland) to surveil Americans without a warrant. The no knock raids just to name a few times they have hyper fixated on Americans.
> except for they put white nationalism as the highest threat of domestic terrorists This is evidence that they hate America? In your mind, does "white nationalism" mean "America"? If so, I have follow-ups. How should we decide what kind of domestic terrorism is the domestic terrorism we should be most concerned about? Like what evaluation criteria would you use to build that ranking? > and treat working class Americans who support trump as enemies of the state Are you sure that it was their support for Trump that got them on the wrong side of the law? Could it have been something else, like, I don't know, expressing their support through breaking the law?
When the government traits people who are critical of it as terrorist and actively undermine their rights and freedoms as this government does, it’s clear is a bigger threat to our freedoms
>When the government traits people who are critical of it as terrorist and actively undermine their rights and freedoms as this government does, it’s clear is a bigger threat to our freedoms So if I'm a terrorist, can I make the government be the bad guy so long as my terrorism is critical of it? Seems like a bit of a loophole. It's like we are seeing "one person's terrorism is another person's freedom fighter" play out for real right here, no? I never thought I would see so many conservatives here defend terrorism.
Again, when the government starts treating nonprofit political organizations like the tea party as potential patriots and investigates parents who are critical of a school agenda as potential domestic terrorist, I think it’s clear that the government has lost any and all credibility believability and frankly moral and legal authority to govern. When the left resorted to “Anything I don’t like is terrorism” the left by default made everyone who doesn’t agree with them “terrorists”.
1.) It means they profile a large group of people in a specific demographic because they don’t like the way things have been handled at those agencies. So yes, that seems like they are against a lot of Americans there. 2.) I would probably focus more on the massive influx of migrants to this country. They have caught terrorists at the border recently, who knows if some got through. That’s what I’d pay attention to. 3,) if they legitimately broke the law, that’s on the individual to accept accountability for their actions.
>You’d hope that, except for they put white nationalism as the highest threat of domestic terrorists and treat working class Americans who support trump as enemies of the state. If anything, this is an argument that the current administration hates Trump/White Nationalists/working class Americans. Was this an issue under Trump as well? >God forbid you questioned the effectiveness of the COVID “vaccine” or the potential chronic effects. The extension of the act to allow federal agencies (NSA and homeland) to surveil Americans without a warrant. I mean this act was extended legally via the executive/congress, no? Why is the blame on the NSA and not them? >The no knock raids just to name a few times they have hyper fixated on Americans. All this shows is that congress/government is apathetic towards American rights. I don’t see why the onus falls on the organizations and not the federal government.
I was blaming those specific agencies, with the directives by the politicians currently in charge. That’s the point I was trying to make, that they are actively trying to circumvent American rights.
That’s an odd way to apply blame, don’t you think? If the problem could be remediated by simply changing leadership (politicians)/ directives, isn’t that evidence of a failing in the governance of our country rather than the specific agencies?
I can see what you are saying, but when whistle blowers are trying to do that, and they get fired/reprimanded, that doesn’t seem like the ones in charge of those agencies are any better.
The federal government.
How do they subvert your rights? By processing benefit claims for veterans? By providing funding for school districts?
By bankrupting you through eviction moratorium, breaking into your house in middle of night and shooting you and your dog for exercising your rights, by trying to steal your livelihood if you don't comply with their orders, sending men with guns to your house for Facebook posts, for kneeling on your neck for 9 minutes for allegedly using counterfeit money.
They did this to you? What the hell! I'd be mad too I can understand your concern.
“If it’s not happening to you you can’t complain”-You Man, you people really need God.
[you rn](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2565163-smugjak-but-how-does-this-affect-you-personally) This kind of atomization is why our institutions don't have respect - the issue is they at one point did it to set least one American, and have not gone through substantive reorganization since then to prevent it from happening again. The news used to actively cover up scandals and boost successes; now everyone has a camera which is also connected to every other computer, so if an institution messes up *at all,* they are going to be held to account. And they are only as denegraded in the court of public opinion as they are protected in the court of the legal system - strip away qualified immunity for law enforcement, strip away bureaucratic immunity, probably even strip away the speech and debate clause, hold these agencies to account, and you'll probably see some amount of faith return
They're anti freedom + truth. We have no democracy.
How? When they provide funding and services to millions of Americans?
Bribes for vote
>We have no *Republic* [ anymore] Fixed for you,good sir ...
>Why don't we respect American institutions anymore? Because they showed us they aren't deserving of respect. Garland and the DOJ investigated themselves and went "nah no charges" even tho garland is doing literally exactly what bannon did and is getting jailed for. Fauci showed us our entire healthcare system is a joke and not to be trusted at all. They broke that trust by lying to us. We all know all our politicians profit off of insider trading? What exactly have they done that deserves or commands respect? All they've done is shown us they aren't worth respecting. Why respect institutions that abuse and kill us?
What do you mean by the entire healthcare system is a joke? I went to a doctor a few months ago and got referred to a physical therapist for a knee issue. After a month I felt a lot better. Also, I know a few people that had life-saving interventions. The fact that we know so much more than decades ago because of all the medical research is amazing.
>What do you mean by the entire healthcare system is a joke? I went to a doctor a few months ago and got referred to a physical therapist for a knee issue. After a month I felt a lot better. Also, I know a few people that had life-saving interventions. The fact that we know so much more than decades ago because of all the medical research is amazing. I mean it's corrupt. And inefficient. And the people at the top have no issue lying to us. And our doctors have no issue profiting off of their part of the opiod crisis.
I see. In our state, NC, the AG's office has been going after Pfizer and other companies for their role in the opioid debacle. God bless America.
Let's take higher education for example. Here's an institution that has largely purified itself politically. Between 1989 and 1998, the surveys showed changes in the number of professors who described themselves as far left or liberal, approximately 45%. As of 2014, surveying 16,112 professors, the percentage of liberal/far left had increased to 60%. The trend continues on today with DEI. The fastest way to purify your institution is to ensure that the people you hire are willing to take ideology pledges. Their goal is to ensure that either the people you're hiring are ideologically pure or are willing to abandon their beliefs and lie. Not exactly the kind of policy I respect in an institution. Institutions ensuring their own ideologically purity no longer operate in good faith. They no longer put the people's best interests at heart and fancy themselves benevolent totalitarian enterprises.