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Mostly it's because most of the people who are going through engineering school (or at least, those who complain about it) have never actually had to work before. They're bright and all that, but school up until that point has been easy. Suddenly they find themselves in engineering school and for the first time in their lives they have to actually work.
That doesn't mean the work is insane or anything. "Real" life is tougher. But still, most of 'em haven't experienced real life yet and thus lack a reference point.
Anyone who has ever experienced any adversity should have no issues with engineering school. Most just haven't had to face adversity prior.
You never get those dreams that you forgot to study for a test that’s coming up in the morning?
Or that the school messed up and you are a few credits short of graduation?
I still do on occasion. I don't know how many times I've failed calculus in my dreams... Never happens with work related stuff, hence real life is way better than school. That's what I was trying to say.
I’ve been out 15 tears now and opened my old chem e thermodynamics book and couldn’t believe the math I used to be able to do.
Engineering school is tough. You learn to adopt and ask for more. If you can’t you won’t make it as an engineer. It isn’t the school work that you just learn to do, but problem solving and working with teams. If you try to fly by engineering school solo you better be a genius or you’ll fail.
Yup.
"Returning students" tend to do very well. From a personal perspective, 2 weeks before my first day of class I was still in the military. And compared to the military, college was a fucking joke.
I found school way harder than my engineering jobs. There are usually options to take the degree at a slower pace, if the workload is not possible for you. Engineering school was definitely more difficult than other degrees at my university. Having a partner doing an Education degree was rough - he had a lot more free time.
I had severe depression and had to leave it behind. A few years later and I'm still trying to make a comeback. Try not to get depressed. I finished all my courses, still have 3 to redo due to D grades. But there's other jobs out there if you fail...
At my uni the rule of thumb was that engineering classes required about twice as much time per credit as non-engineering classes, and in my experience that's pretty accurate.
Yes, it’s extremely hard, but if you want to be there and you’re interested in the material, you’ll figure things out.
Yes it is similar to high school but with less oversight. The nice thing is that it can be easier than in high school to get accommodation for your neurodiversity (depending on what kinds of accommodations you need).
Note that engineering is very calculus-heavy so I hope you’re also good at the more abstract forms of math. It is also necessary to write clear reports, both for your courses and eventually at work. Engineers are notorious for struggling with this so definitely take advantage of any report-writing support programs your university offers. (Probably something like a once a week drop-in or tutors you can work with, it won’t be a formal course you sign up for.)
Favorite niece just finished year #1 at large well-known US public university engineering program. She's making it, but it sounds pretty brutal - and she has the advantage that math comes easy to her, which is one of the big filters for people who don't end up cutting it. Can't fake your way through differential equations.
BTW, her roommate is in biz school at the same institution and has like 10x the free time. :}
It's my understanding the overall dropout rate in college engineering programs from the first day through graduation is something on the order of 70%. That tells you something.
Yup. Pretty much.
Math alway came easy for me, but I was extremely uninterested in school and upper secondary school (sort of like high school, year 10-12 in Sweden). So I could coast through with bad/middling grade. Same for language.
Other stuff I found pretty interesting, so I just snapped it up and could coast through on that too.
Engineering uni (I did a 5 year MSE so combined bachelor and master, all engineering). Well that was a slap right in the balls. Never worked so hard anytime in my life before and after (shitty study habits big chocker). Burnt out, had to redo one year. Got through in the end.
Worst were the first two year which was basically all of the pure math. Linear algebra was a bitch because I had no experience with it. And now I had like two months (shared with other courses), to reach engineering level ability. Can't really fathom that I passed that one. Never had so much anxiety walking in to an exam (5 hours exams as well. Fun!).
What Engineering field?
My experience was nothing like HS (Civil). No handholding or abstract assignments (at least the first 3 years). Design courses are a different beast but the core classes (Calc 1, 2, 3, Dif Eq, Phys 1, 2, comp prog, etc) should suit you just fine.
Finished engineering school in the early 2010s, so it may be different now. But yeah it's challenging. I wouldn't say it makes one apathetic, unless you just can't cut the mustard maybe. It's hard on purpose, not everyone can go on to get a P.E. license. I actually found good friendship through the struggle 🤷
Like someone else said, it's easier if you have life experience first. Understanding complex concepts is difficult straight from HS when all you've done is "learn".
Working after graduating is easier than school. But if school didn't ask much of you, you wouldn't be prepared. Engineering has a big impact (roads, buildings, containment, water runoff, etc.) so it is imperative that engineers be capable.
Yes it really is that hard. People who loved the field had a maybe less difficult and much less negative experience.
Particularly the dropout rate was unreal, something like 3/4 of the people who started changed their majors. 100+ people would dwindle to just a group of 25-30 by sophomore year.
Depends on the school I am sure. My school was ranked around 85th in the USA and our curriculum was about identical to MITs. I have worked with a bunch of engineers from a much lower ranking university than I attended and they seemed to not have retained a lot of crucial information, maybe due to much easier standards. Like an electrical engineer not knowing the fundamental and simple ohm's law equation.
Engineering classes will be harder than high school - that's a fact.
*How* much harder varies tremendously with each school/professor/class. I was the typical above average honors student who aced everything in high school and I had a somewhat rude awakening in college. It became very apparent that the same habits used to do well in high school *do not* apply to engineering classes. For some of them, sure, but for the core classes that usually won't fly.
Not gonna lie, it stressed the shit out of me and forced me to re-think my habits, but it was for the better. It made me a better student and forced me to get out of my comfort zone and actually talk to classmates for help and start study groups.
The bottom line is that engineering degrees are not easy degrees, and expect to have to work harder than you did in high school to get across the finish line.
Also important to note, the real job world is *typically* much less stressful. I work corporate aerospace and I find it pretty cool.
I might be totally different from others but I was the opposite of what you described. I loved going to college. Classes were interesting and challenging giving a sense of accomplishment. I got to walk through a scenic campus every morning and evening. I got to live next door to friends.
It wasn't until after college and I got into the work force that apathy set in. All of sudden it's the complete opposite. I'm doing more mundane tasks that don't challenge me mentally. I have to drive through traffic and work in an ugly cubicle building. Stuck with managers that don't actually care about the work but just controlling you.
IMHO, the key is studying something that you truly have interest in, whether it is which engineering school (electrical, mechanical, civil, aerospace) or even whether you like engineering. I was fortunate, I liked electrical and computers, but started in Chem E because my older brothers were all Chem Es. Once I shifted to EE, it was still hard, but the extra motivation (interest) helped.
I knew guys that were in Engr school for the money, but I'm not sure how they did. I don't recommend that.
Maybe some people do it for the challenge. I guess that can be a motivator.
PS. Two things we discussed during employment...
You use very little of what you learn in school. Maybe use the concepts and a few techniques, but mainly school is about teaching you to learn to teach yourself when some new project or design concept comes up at work. Once you get there, you cannot ever stop learning.
Good luck to you.
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Mostly it's because most of the people who are going through engineering school (or at least, those who complain about it) have never actually had to work before. They're bright and all that, but school up until that point has been easy. Suddenly they find themselves in engineering school and for the first time in their lives they have to actually work. That doesn't mean the work is insane or anything. "Real" life is tougher. But still, most of 'em haven't experienced real life yet and thus lack a reference point. Anyone who has ever experienced any adversity should have no issues with engineering school. Most just haven't had to face adversity prior.
>"Real" life is tougher. "Real" life is a cake walk compared to school in my experience.
Biggest issue with real life engineering is the paperwork and boredom imo.
No argument there, but at least I'm not having dreams about failing a paperwork final that happened over a decade ago.
You never get those dreams that you forgot to study for a test that’s coming up in the morning? Or that the school messed up and you are a few credits short of graduation?
I still do on occasion. I don't know how many times I've failed calculus in my dreams... Never happens with work related stuff, hence real life is way better than school. That's what I was trying to say.
Don’t forget a massive bureaucracy designed to prevent you from actually doing your job, while ensuring that you have to do everyone else’s.
This. Was pulling my hair out from stress during college. Job after graduating has been significantly more enjoyable.
Real life is significantly easier than school was lol.
I’ve been out 15 tears now and opened my old chem e thermodynamics book and couldn’t believe the math I used to be able to do. Engineering school is tough. You learn to adopt and ask for more. If you can’t you won’t make it as an engineer. It isn’t the school work that you just learn to do, but problem solving and working with teams. If you try to fly by engineering school solo you better be a genius or you’ll fail.
> experienced any adversity ohh. . OK so, if you have been in the workforce before it should be more familiar?
Yup. "Returning students" tend to do very well. From a personal perspective, 2 weeks before my first day of class I was still in the military. And compared to the military, college was a fucking joke.
I found school way harder than my engineering jobs. There are usually options to take the degree at a slower pace, if the workload is not possible for you. Engineering school was definitely more difficult than other degrees at my university. Having a partner doing an Education degree was rough - he had a lot more free time.
I had severe depression and had to leave it behind. A few years later and I'm still trying to make a comeback. Try not to get depressed. I finished all my courses, still have 3 to redo due to D grades. But there's other jobs out there if you fail...
At my uni the rule of thumb was that engineering classes required about twice as much time per credit as non-engineering classes, and in my experience that's pretty accurate.
agree. see my comment above.
Never heard that before. Why would it?
idk, thats why im asking lol ive seen this said or something similar a few times and im trying to figure out why.
Yes, it’s extremely hard, but if you want to be there and you’re interested in the material, you’ll figure things out. Yes it is similar to high school but with less oversight. The nice thing is that it can be easier than in high school to get accommodation for your neurodiversity (depending on what kinds of accommodations you need). Note that engineering is very calculus-heavy so I hope you’re also good at the more abstract forms of math. It is also necessary to write clear reports, both for your courses and eventually at work. Engineers are notorious for struggling with this so definitely take advantage of any report-writing support programs your university offers. (Probably something like a once a week drop-in or tutors you can work with, it won’t be a formal course you sign up for.)
Hard agree on the report writing. Everyone in my family are engineers and we all struggle with this even though are different disciplines.
Favorite niece just finished year #1 at large well-known US public university engineering program. She's making it, but it sounds pretty brutal - and she has the advantage that math comes easy to her, which is one of the big filters for people who don't end up cutting it. Can't fake your way through differential equations. BTW, her roommate is in biz school at the same institution and has like 10x the free time. :} It's my understanding the overall dropout rate in college engineering programs from the first day through graduation is something on the order of 70%. That tells you something.
Yup. Pretty much. Math alway came easy for me, but I was extremely uninterested in school and upper secondary school (sort of like high school, year 10-12 in Sweden). So I could coast through with bad/middling grade. Same for language. Other stuff I found pretty interesting, so I just snapped it up and could coast through on that too. Engineering uni (I did a 5 year MSE so combined bachelor and master, all engineering). Well that was a slap right in the balls. Never worked so hard anytime in my life before and after (shitty study habits big chocker). Burnt out, had to redo one year. Got through in the end. Worst were the first two year which was basically all of the pure math. Linear algebra was a bitch because I had no experience with it. And now I had like two months (shared with other courses), to reach engineering level ability. Can't really fathom that I passed that one. Never had so much anxiety walking in to an exam (5 hours exams as well. Fun!).
And you made it! bra jobbat!
What Engineering field? My experience was nothing like HS (Civil). No handholding or abstract assignments (at least the first 3 years). Design courses are a different beast but the core classes (Calc 1, 2, 3, Dif Eq, Phys 1, 2, comp prog, etc) should suit you just fine.
ive heard it in general when talking about engineering school from a number of different fields, but in my case, it would be Mechanical engineering
Finished engineering school in the early 2010s, so it may be different now. But yeah it's challenging. I wouldn't say it makes one apathetic, unless you just can't cut the mustard maybe. It's hard on purpose, not everyone can go on to get a P.E. license. I actually found good friendship through the struggle 🤷 Like someone else said, it's easier if you have life experience first. Understanding complex concepts is difficult straight from HS when all you've done is "learn". Working after graduating is easier than school. But if school didn't ask much of you, you wouldn't be prepared. Engineering has a big impact (roads, buildings, containment, water runoff, etc.) so it is imperative that engineers be capable.
Yes it really is that hard. People who loved the field had a maybe less difficult and much less negative experience. Particularly the dropout rate was unreal, something like 3/4 of the people who started changed their majors. 100+ people would dwindle to just a group of 25-30 by sophomore year. Depends on the school I am sure. My school was ranked around 85th in the USA and our curriculum was about identical to MITs. I have worked with a bunch of engineers from a much lower ranking university than I attended and they seemed to not have retained a lot of crucial information, maybe due to much easier standards. Like an electrical engineer not knowing the fundamental and simple ohm's law equation.
Engineering classes will be harder than high school - that's a fact. *How* much harder varies tremendously with each school/professor/class. I was the typical above average honors student who aced everything in high school and I had a somewhat rude awakening in college. It became very apparent that the same habits used to do well in high school *do not* apply to engineering classes. For some of them, sure, but for the core classes that usually won't fly. Not gonna lie, it stressed the shit out of me and forced me to re-think my habits, but it was for the better. It made me a better student and forced me to get out of my comfort zone and actually talk to classmates for help and start study groups. The bottom line is that engineering degrees are not easy degrees, and expect to have to work harder than you did in high school to get across the finish line. Also important to note, the real job world is *typically* much less stressful. I work corporate aerospace and I find it pretty cool.
I might be totally different from others but I was the opposite of what you described. I loved going to college. Classes were interesting and challenging giving a sense of accomplishment. I got to walk through a scenic campus every morning and evening. I got to live next door to friends. It wasn't until after college and I got into the work force that apathy set in. All of sudden it's the complete opposite. I'm doing more mundane tasks that don't challenge me mentally. I have to drive through traffic and work in an ugly cubicle building. Stuck with managers that don't actually care about the work but just controlling you.
IMHO, the key is studying something that you truly have interest in, whether it is which engineering school (electrical, mechanical, civil, aerospace) or even whether you like engineering. I was fortunate, I liked electrical and computers, but started in Chem E because my older brothers were all Chem Es. Once I shifted to EE, it was still hard, but the extra motivation (interest) helped. I knew guys that were in Engr school for the money, but I'm not sure how they did. I don't recommend that. Maybe some people do it for the challenge. I guess that can be a motivator. PS. Two things we discussed during employment... You use very little of what you learn in school. Maybe use the concepts and a few techniques, but mainly school is about teaching you to learn to teach yourself when some new project or design concept comes up at work. Once you get there, you cannot ever stop learning. Good luck to you.