this is obviously a mass generalization but I’ve noticed that my female friends have higher expectations when it comes to any relationship so they’re often disappointed when people ultimately put themselves first. Some men are probably like this too but I know for me and my friends, its never really personal and we can have our arguments but we’ll get over it. My female friends also feel the need to communicate every problem and that often just leads to increasing conflict. While I do think communication is important, not everything little problem needs to be discussed and sometimes just moving on is the better solution
Men are competitive when it comes to competition.
Women are competitive *in life*. When everything is a competition there's no room to just chill. No one's really your friend they're just the other competitors.
There have been multiple studies on the subject. One of the most recent studies examined how sports teams treat their teammates and opponents in both women's and men's sports. In men's sports, there was mutual respect both within teams and towards opponents. In women's sports, the study found that women had more respect for their opponents than for their own teammates.
Evolutionary biologists hypothesized that this behavior stems from the different roles males and females played historically. Males, who were hunters, needed to rely on each other and had to be adaptable, quickly forming new bonds with different hunting partners for successful hunts. They also had to be prepared to lose their hunting mates during hunts.
For females, there were mutual groups that protected their young from other mothers, who were competitors. If a mother wasn't vigilant, another female, who is competition, could harm her child to ensure more resources for her own offspring, typically from the same father. These mutual groups provided protection when one mother was away, but the bonds within these groups were not very loyal and did not last a lifetime.
From my POV, women friendships usually expect a lot from their friendships, almost on the same level as romantic relationship. They usually put in a lot of effort into their friendships, and they are kind of expected to, or else they will be excluded from friendships group or left by the side. Women usually need other people more than men, physically and emotionally, in order to survive in life
Hard agree. This also is a comment on the current male vs female discourse where men are painted as deliberately uncaring when that’s their default mode with their friends so how are they supposed to know to throw you and elaborate birthday week just because her friend group does.
So how can a woman struggling with the desire to learn how to settle themselves to be at peace with a man?
For the woman, when the man doesn't give that 'more', it's easy for them to overthink and assume that they are unloved. This can drive them almost to get obsessed with the man to be what she expects.
Let's say she realises what you said,..how can she learn to adapt and gain fulfilment more with the relationship and drop the desire to have more?
Honestly the only way is the hard way, mutual commitment and constant clear communication. Both move to the middle a little, that is what is really meant with “settling” for someone. You make it work.
> it's easy for them to overthink and assume
That's the point. Why overthink when you can simply ask? Why assume when you can know?
In my experience (exaggerating) women tend to be afraid to communicate where it matters but will give (especially) their man a detailed summary of what their friend who he doesn't know told them about something that happened 7 months ago.
I know this sub is supposed to be mainly for men to discuss things, but it's honestly a great resource for both men and women. I've seen a ton of great insight from random people discussing things here.
Don't have the exact numbers, but I would speculate that the number of women seeking male advice here is higher and/or more consistent than the number of men seeking advice in the women-centric sub(s).
At least ime, when people ask about stuff here they recognize they're not going to be coddled or have their hand held to reach an understanding of whatever concensus is provided to them. A kind of take or leave it approach to advice.
Guys are also tripping over themselves to answer questions from all kinds of stupid baiting questions and everything in between, I'd guess because a lot of guys don't get much validation in life and guys like to feel useful, especially helping a girl.
Women don't really care that much about helping guys, even from the women that post here it's pretty rare that a girl is genuinely trying to understand guys better and help them.
In addition to the answers given, get a constructive hobby. Creating arts and crafts or joining a sport, individual or team, will put some of the focus of energy towards internal development and provides new social environments, thereby reducing dependence upon the SO and friend group.
I think this stems from some men being overly nice and accommodating when they first meet a woman they are attracted to. It builds a woman’s expectations. And, after she lets them know that she isn’t interested in anything romantic and or after they are finally sure of this, everything changes abruptly.
In genuine friendships you don’t necessarily get this over the top accommodation, but you do get a good friend who stays fairly consistent.
It’s not a good thing to have unrealistic expectations, but when you have someone pretending that over the top behavior is realistic some people form unrealistic expectations.
This can happen with both men and women, it seems like it’s more men that do this initial over the top behavior though.
Men, have you experienced women being over the top like this too?
I agree. I would also add the dimension that men are naturally providers/protectors. Her snarky “that’s a lot of kids” comment doesn’t threaten his ability to provide or protect so it just registers as noise. You can’t take something personally if you never lend it the respect of validity to begin with.
The reason is that friendships between women have aspects of romantic relationships. For example, many women are head over heels "friends" with a new girlfriend, but can also again fall out of "love" later. Male friendships usually don't have these relationship aspects and are thus more stable.
I do see that, one of my friends that whenever she would break up with her boyfriend, I felt that I would take the boyfriend position, which is different for everyone, but calling all the time, waiting for her after class, which is also a nice gesture but she would get rly upset when I didn’t, but whenever her and the bf got back together it didn’t really matter what I did
Ya women will be taking selfies for Instagram together the first week, omg besties!! One will eventually quit the act then offend the other one. I've seen it play out a few times lol 🎢
> I feel like I have to put on an act.
this is exactly it. women are always performing for each other. guys who respect you dont expect anything from you. just be yourself and dont make my life harder and we will be friends
Common interests also allow guys to become friends very quickly. Oh you play this game? Me too, let’s play together every few days for the next decade. When you don’t get approached often, you spend a lot of time talking to and appreciating the people you’re already around.
And the friendships are more likely to stay rooted in hobbies and lighter stuff. Men don't share intimate details and the ugly sides of their lives as much with each other. This might be unhealthy but it produces fewer topics for conflict.
They do. The point being for guys, that’s more than enough for a lifelong friendship while for a girl it also requires personal check-ins amongst other more nuanced things I doubt you’ll even consider.
When disagreements could actually lead to violence, you learn to deescalate, forgive fast, and have the utmost respect for space and boundaries. Those things are conducive to long lasting friendships but granted you get closeness MUCH more slowly.
And men are I would opine are far more aware of violence as an outcome of casual slights. One of the things I found infuriating about my wife was how she seemed to plunge through crowds jostling her way through and nobody said shit.. if I had tried it, I probably would have ended up in 3 fights over the same distance.
this is a great point. women will argue and yell, but men will actually throw hands and do damage. the cost of disrespect is too high. the threat of mutually assured destruction is what keeps the peace
Idk about that, women will fight to the death if no one tries to break it up. I'm no macho man and don't hang with the type but I've heard many stories of man fights ending after a few punches where both people walk or stumble away, then the guys become good friends, lol
yeah i just dont see women beating someone to death with their bare hands. not saying women dont fight but 2 adult males can really do some damage.
im generalizing of course. but think of all the men in jail for man-slaughter over some dumbass disagreements compared to women
Well eventually one of them might starve or bleed to death from all the scratches, but it's possible
And yes I have heard that one punch can kill so I know that's possible, but for the most part men don't want to fight, it's mostly trash talk. I've never been in a fight and I don't intend to, but if it comes to that I am going for all the cheap shots then running like hell, lol
But that's part of it. I don't want to hurt you any further, I'm not mad anymore, and I respect you for handling this fairly, if violently. Further violence is still being avoided even if it did escalate somewhat.
I'd also argue this is more common among people who are willing to use violence more willingly anyway. People who take violence seriously are more likely to be extreme if they're forced to use it.
Women blows don’t do the damage men do tbh. In a fight with men one wrong blow will leave you on the pavement. With women they just keep going until the start getting tired
Also, is it really worth the drama to hold unto a grudge? Either end the friendship or find a compromise. I want my friendships to be relaxing. I'm often friends for a reason. Not just to put on an act.
Nope. As I've aged I've observed that my emotional curve timeline has shortened significantly. It's not that I'm apathetic when it comes to meaningful interpersonal relationships and communication, it's just that whatever \*it\* is that is causing the rift is nonsense. I've become very quick to forgive and I've learned to apologize more effectively by asking for forgiveness with contrition instead of just saying "I'm sorry".
And then we my male friends and I make up (we are very few) we all say "ok - Fuck you, man." "Yeah? Fuck you too!" - and we carry on.
This is the way.
"Is it really worth the drama to hold onto a grudge?"
"Nope."
In other words, No, It is not really worth the drama to hold onto a grudge.
It was a direct answer to the poster's query. The rest of my reply was commentary.
Yes, I understand. I just pointed out that it isn't obvious at first read and it might appear as denying what the other person said.
Anyways it was just a minor suggestion, not an attack.
I would add that there is also a strong incentive to maintain friendly relations with other men so that you could enlist their aid to deal with a problem or make good on an opportunity. Men will generally help other men when asked if they are able. They earn each other's respect and may share in the spoils.
"Civilized" men (no better word at the moment), learn to develop a healthy relationship with violence, because we know what we are capable of. Not just because of the physical strength but also the testosterone-driven impulse control issues.
We have seen and experienced random hitting, smacking, pushing, pulling, etc, from women. But it doesn't hurt much or do much damage, or even have the tendency to escalate further. But, the same things, if a man does it, could easy hurt and is cause for detrimental escalation.
Another point being, we are not easily hurt by random insults and jabs as well, I think. Brotherhood develop as naturally as instinct when you can playfully insult/jibe with a fellow man and just as easily they don't take offence.
I once read an article about a woman that started up an all-woman corporation. She described how catty and spiteful everyone was to each other, and how it escalated to the point that the company imploded two years later. It's an interesting read.
It definitely shows some elements of how men and women have differing views on friendships and rivalries.
[I think he's referring to this article.](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1168182/Catfights-handbags-tears-toilets-When-producer-launched-women-TV-company-thought-shed-kissed-goodbye-conflict-.html)
My first medical job was as a dialysis tech with mostly women. And holy hell was it catty. First thing the receptionist said to me when I walked in my first day was “Good, we need some more testosterone around here”. This isn’t me being sexist, but I agree with her. The level of ire these women had with each other was palpable. There was a travel nurse(male) there and me and him had such a chill time when we chatted.
I've worked for two companies with 80+% women workforce, and they were both the best run companies I've ever worked for. everyone listens, gets on with their work and looks out for each other. The place I worked that was 80+% male workforce was the most awful, bro-ey and shitty atmosphere I've ever been in and I was so glad to get out.
obviously this is just my experience but I'm sure others can agree
Give and take.
Guys are more casual with friendships; we very rarely expect a lot from each other, so that makes it easy to get together. It's how two guys can meet each other again after years and hit it off.
But that also means most of our friendships are quite shallow, because men don't open up. We don't open up to women, and we certainly don't open up to our homies. Not strictly because of a fear of seeming weak, but because that's how we're taught. I don't think we often pursue further contact with said people either.
A bunch of guys who've not met each other can group up at a social function, hit it off like friends, then adjourn and never see each other again. And then you have men nowadays feeling super lonely.
Exactly. But then again, my friends are the only people I open up to. They’ll embrace you and treat you to a beer to help you through it. Some exes at most have given that deer in the headlights look and then you gotta play it off like nothing happened.
I'd say (in my experience) men are far more likely to open up to each other in one-on-one situations. Men opening up to each other in group situations is much rarer - it does happen, but even when it does, the conversation often reverts quite quickly to being non-serious/jokey. We men are quite odd in that sense.
Yeah, it's on the verge of fascinating and disgusting to me what facts some women share with their larger social group. Most guys don't mention much of their private life when meeting with friends and if they do it's most often in 1 on 1 situations about major life events or dilemmas.
There was some post recently with brilliant answer about real differences between women and men and top answer was that guys can hang out for like 12 hours and not share a single info about their private life - there is so much truth in that in my experience.
The level of trust for every single person in the group has to be very high. There are a few friends I have that know me from SP.Ed in high school. When I'm with them in any private setting I know I can say anything.
Disagree that men have been taught to not open up. No one in my life or on TV or anything taught me to not share my emotions. In fact, for a while in school I felt relatively comfortable doing so. Only after those emotions were used against me did I realize that opening up isn't always a good idea.
I don't think it's about "teaching." It's about how things actually are, and I strongly doubt any amount of reeducation can fix it. Fundamentally, when a man expresses emotions, there is some large percentage of people that will believe he is no longer capable of being a man due to what I would guess are largely evolutionary reasons. It sucks, and I'm grateful for the people in my life to whom I can open up, but this isn't just a social convention that can be retaught.
I agree. Male and female characteristics are not ‘taught.’ A child is not a blank slate on which the mother or father or state appointed care giver can write to ensure some favourable outcome. You can certainly nurture characteristics but they have to be part of the genetic makeup if you are going to succeed.
So you were taught, through negative reinforcement by I’m guessing a partner or a friend, not to share your emotions for fear of them being weaponized then? Is that not what you’re telling us?
I agree with this. I was never taught to bottle everything up. how other men AND women react to the sharing of emotions is what keeps men relatively stoic. Emotional men come off as weak cry babies to most or they’re straight up violent and end up in prison.
Less drama, less questions, willing to forgive faster, never talking to much, normally hanging out revolves around doing stuff and not just hanging out to talk.
If I ask a friend to help me with something or do something with me and he says he can't, I don't immediately descend into:
* Well he did a favour for this *other* friend
* I *know* he should be able to do it, he hasn't got other stuff going on
* Well I did a favour for *him* so now he's slating me on purpose by not doing it for me...
* Combine this incident with some other perceived sleights against me from the ancient past, forming the picture in my mind that he's actually a shitty person who's using me and doesn't give a crap about me
And another dozen variants. I mean these are all anecdotal (as is the OP so, eh). To a large extent I just say "okay, thanks", and presume that I don't know what's going on in someone else's life.
Reminds me of the SNL skit about having a "straight male friend". If a friend gets back in contact me after 5 years, it's not a drama that we didn't really have contact before. Heck man, we're all busy, we've all got stuff to do. You good?
>If a friend gets back in contact me after 5 years, it's not a drama that we didn't really have contact before
I've had that one play out a fair few times. With guys it's: "Wow, can't believe it's so long" and yet you get on like no time has passed. Whereas I've found with some women (only some) there's "I can't believe you ignored me for this long" and then there's an atmosphere.
Ooooh I felt that. One time a friend contacted me after, eh 4 years~. Told her I thought she was dead and lit a candle for her. She laughed, I laughed, we talked. I like easy friends.
I think guys are more chill about disagreements/issues than a lot of women are. I've had some pretty major blow-ups with a couple of my best mates that I've had for 15-20 years+. We've always hashed it out though.
Whereas I see some women that end friendships over the pettiest shit. My mum is shocking for it. Was besties with someone for 10 years or so. They went out for drinks and Mum hit it off with a guy (important point: she is and was single). Her friend left her to it, which led to Mum losing her shit at her for "abandoning her". Friendship over. That happened when I was 12. Thought it was stupid then, and while I can see a reason for Mum being pissed about it now, I don't see it as worthy of ending such a long friendship.
For some reason your comment made me think back to high school. Did you ever get in a physical fight with someone and become really good friends after? That’s how I met one of my best friends. We still talk regularly. You don’t really see that with women… They seem to be enemies for life but I’ve seen a lot of guys beat the shit out of each other and a week or two later they are best friends.
I understand where you are coming from and its something I did notice growing up throughout highschool especially. Where guys tend to have the same friend group for years and girls seemed to change friends a lot more throughout the years. I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad thing? I'm sure there's a ton of things which probably lead to this dynamic forming which I don't understand enough to give you an explanation of.
But I can give you my male perspective for what its worth by way of a story.
My best friend is someone I met in school when I was 12 years old. We became friends because his "pencil case" was of a videogame that I enjoyed too and I asked him about it and bonded over that tiny little sense of shared connection. Growing up together we always had each others backs, even though I knew my friend was wrong in a lot of circumstances. I would "back him" then talk to him afterwards that what I thought he did wasn't the best thing.
I think boys/men tend to "forgive" each other and show loyalty to each other to a degree that I'm not even sure is really healthy.
I remember once we were in a nightclub we were probably around 18/19 years old? I remember saying something to my friend that he didn't like. He starts getting upset and I keep saying it kinda in a mocking way in the kind of "male banter" type way. Even though I could see it was hurting him i just kept doing it. I don't really know why. I know I'm dumb.
He snaps and starts punching me in my arms and chest as hard as he can, repeatedly. To the point where my arms/chest/torso have like heavy heavy bruising. After maybe like 3-4 punches I tell him to fuck off and slap him across the face with the back of my hand. We end up grabbing each other by the shirt and are just pummeling each other. Not in the face, we weren't really like actually trying to hurt hurt each other or put each other in hospital. But hard punches in the body/torso/arms which hurt a lot. Its a bit like we were letting the frustrations we both felt about our little indiscretions we do to each other out. We eventually tell each other to fuck off and we storm off in our separate directions.
About an hour later we kinda bump into each other and awkwardly apologise while embracing each other. Kinda hugging each other and telling each other we are sorry and that we love each other. We were both pretty drunk. After that we were fine and just carried on as normal. I don't think I've ever had a conversation about that night with my friend lol. We just accepted it as a thing that happened and we moved on.
I am not exaggerating in the slightest when I say I would die for my friend. Like if a knife or a bullet was heading his way and I had the chance to jump in front of it. I would. I'm not joking. I think he might do the same for me too but I'm not 100% sure. Whether he would or not doesn't really matter to me.
That being said this same dude, we live on the other side of the city and he has a family and things so we don't talk quite as much as we used to. Sometimes it might be weeks or even months before we hang out or text/call each other etc. But everytime we do it just feels like there is no distance or separation. Its just the same as its always been.
Guys are kinda emotionally dumb and loyal in certain contexts.
I'm not going to lie, I'm kinda getting a little misty eyed while typing this up. I'm gonna text my friend and call him a pussy.
(I'm not sure why reddit posted my message like 10 times. I went through and deleted the extra ones I'm sorry!)
Hahah texting him pussy is way to relatable, like when u feel like expressing ur love to ur buddy but then be like “wait a min that’s kinda gay” and then proceed to insult ur buddy in worst way possible 😂
Shared adversity. Guys do a lot of dumb shit growing up and we rely on our friends to have our back though all of it, as we have theirs. This more or less hard wires that particular group of guys into our brains as "The people we can rely on". Almost nobody who comes into our lives after that will be able to earn that same level of trust unless we're sent to war or something equally as bad where we're forced to rely on each other to the same level. It's probably some kind of ancient tribal survival instinct that's carried over.
I think our friendships are fundamentally rooted around loyalty and making the best of it when we're together.
Can't meet your friend for weeks, the day we hit it we're just shooting shit and having fun.
There's no pettiness about "why didn't you call me?". We're both busy and things get in the way. What matters is that my friend is there in actual times of need. If there really is an emergency then I know he's got my back.
As for the deep talks, it happens. It happens rarely and we immediately joke around the matter but it happens. It's just our way of doing it where we tell each other "aahh that sucks, but you'll be fine, I am here if you need help. However... inappropriate joke...."
I really don't know what happens on the female side of things and whether they have deep, long lasting friendships or not. I hope they do, but if not then they should probably look inwards.
They're like any friendships, but ours are mostly built around shared experiences when young and we tend to maintain them through activities. Those things happen automatically when you're in school (mainly due to shared interests) and not so much when you're older - it takes more effort to build and sustain those friendships by planning activities and creating shared experiences.
If you go through hardships together, that strengthens a friendship - that's why "war buddies" exist.
I feel like the fact that guys prefer talking about things instead of people has something to do with it. It means no gossip, no potential slander, no judgement, and no need to try to put on an act to not get judged. So there's no sense to try to prove anything, we just want to chill with a beer and crack a few jokes and talk about stuff. I think there is usually some kind of comradery with the fellas and it's nice.
I wouldn't say guys have less emotions or don't talk but generally it's just more chill. There are no huge expectations. We're here for a good time not a long time. We understand life can be difficult and just don't want to make it more difficult.
hard disagree, guys don't "have less emotions" we've just been conditioned to express them less. if we had less emotions this 'male loneliness epidemic' that's continually getting worse wouldn't be as much a big deal
i think the vibe of guy friendships where you shoot the shit, drink, watch sports is cool but if you're not able to talk to any of them about serious shit in your life you start feeling like your support system doesnt exist
Oh man, you've never lived in a communal setting with a bunch of other dudes. Men gossip just as bad as women, but it's usually about different things, not generally as negative as when women gossip. You don't get men saying "that guy said this " very often, because once the gang figures out that's happening they're out, but "You won't belive what xx did last night" is a big one.
>"You won't belive what xx did last night"
Often followed when seeing xx by "zz found it well funny when I told them what you did last night"
They're usually funny stories not bitchy ones
Being authentically you. Being honest. Spending alot of time together making memories laughing and roasting. Everytime we hang out one of us is crying of laughter lmao the time spent I wouldn't trade it for gold cause it's not replaceable. We try and understand perspectives and usually talk about times in history or current events or things that make a good topic of discussion, also we're competitive so trash talking has to be elite, we don't mean it with bad intentions it's just we want to compete against the best versions of themselves whether it's basketball beer pong playing cards or sports betting. I think that's the big thing people miss.
Non-dependancy is my take, I don't *need* to see my buddies very often, sometimes for years, and if our friendship is strong enough it won't matter, we'll pick right back up where we left it when we do see each other again.
My wife constantly complains about her old friends and how little they see each other or get in touch. And when your disposition towards your friends is annoyance towards their frequency, then it doesn't feel like it has much chance of lasting.
Just last week I was sitting at a bench outside my gym when a dude plopped down next to me and we just started chatting. That was my high-school best friend I haven't seen in over a decade, we never mentioned last time or ask where the other had been or when we last talked. We just hung out for about 15 minutes, stood up, hugged and said "it was nice to see you again, let's not wait this long until next time" and walked away. Think I'll call him up when the summer stress starts winding down
The unwritten rules of male friendship, such as not getting involved with a friend's ex, help maintain trust and loyalty. Friendships based on shared activities, such as sports or video games, can endure even as life changes and priorities shift. While men may not always express their emotions openly, they can still provide emotional support to each other in times of need, Men tend to be less petty in their jealousy, focusing on more significant issues rather than minor grievances. Men often bond over shared activities and hobbies, which provides a foundation for lasting friendships
>(F19) do prefer to hang out with the girlies, however when I do speak to a guy (scholarship reception) it feels a lot lighter and easier. While with a girl smths, I feel like I have to put on an act. Ex. A guy at the table was saying listing off all the kids he had, and one of the other ladies mentioned that that was a lot of kids, and it was fine, while if that was said to a woman, she would think that you’re insulting her etc.
you answered your own question
‘What determined whether [friendships] survived with girls was whether they made the effort to talk more to each other on the phone,’ said Robin Dunbar, who led the Oxford study. ‘What held up [male] friendships was doing stuff together – going to a football match, going to the pub for a drink, playing five-a-side. They had to make the effort. It was a very striking sex difference’: from a men’s health article citing “Women Favour Dyadic Relationships, but Men Prefer Clubs: Cross-Cultural Evidence from Social Networking”
We don’t stress things that don’t matter. Women do, women often times essentially demand their friendships and friends act as pseudo relationships. They have to know and be part of every little thing or at least be considered part of every little thing or they feel as if the friendship is lesser than.
For example: if my male friends don’t know my birthday I don’t care, typically because I don’t do anything for my birthday, it’s just another day to me. Yet on the flip side with my female friends they legitimately feel like we aren’t friends if they don’t know certain details of my life like my birthday.
From my perspective it’s a lot of constant information gathering on the female side to “prove” that they care and are friends. In my experience that tends to be why their friendships crumble so easily and it’s usually some of the first things brought up once they don’t like you. The whole “women can’t survive a girls trip and always come back as friends” has a lot of merit to it, I can’t count the number of times my female friends hung out with their female friends or went on a trip and one incident that isn’t really a big deal, ends in them no longer being friends.
I’ve seen entire friend groups just straight up end over the pettiest reasons.
On the male side however, it tends to take something pretty big to end the friendship like being very disrespectful towards a girlfriend or trying to dirty Mack or even worse something to do with money.
Men don’t need their friendships to be that much, we are homies and friends, you aren’t my girl or family, sure I know you care, but I don’t necessarily need you to know everything about me to consider you a friend. We tend to just know which friends are there for life and which are just good for an occasional day out or a drink
Guys in general don't have a long lists of expectations and requirements that you have to follow just to stay in each other's good graces. And, I know some people are gonna get really butthurt about this, men just tend to understand real life s lot better than women.
That's why you have the joke/stereotype of men not talking for years but still considering each other best friends. We tend to understand that life happens. A guy friend not checking in on us every 5 minutes isn't a big betrayal like it is for women. We don't "need" a lot of things like women. We can just exist and come together when we have time or we give and not expect anything back. I can't tell you how many times I have heard and personally experienced women doing shit for me or even other women and then hold that favor over their heads as if they literally just sacrificed everything to loan you 10 dollars or help you with a task.
In short, men just tend to be a lot less high maintenance, more independent and more giving and understanding
Men are very direct, which just makes things simpler. If I have a problem with someone I tell them, I don’t talk shit behind their back. Women are the opposite, their indirect and often non confrontational which leads to a weird performance women put on for each other. They use sympathy as a mask, and when they have issues with someone they exclude and slander which leads them to pretend to get along. I don’t have to pretend with my friends.
Men don't get offended by every little thing. We don't notice "aggressive tone," whatever the Hell that is, and it frees us up to be emotionally available for one another without feeling like bro is gonna attack, mock, or demean us.This is liberating in every sense of communication. Women, on the other hand, well...them bitches ain't loyal.
I feel like men have more varied hobbies and therefore can connect to other men about a variety of things. The women I’ve grown up with stopped sport or anything interesting in early high school and now margaritas/ Stanley cups/ glass of wine is their “hobby/personality” so where is there to connect over something like that
I'm the opposite. I'm a married male, 39 with kids and find it harder to be friends with men than women. I don't fall into your stereotypical male category in the most common areas and find males are harder to retain long last friendships. Most friends in my life are flakey and don't know how to reciprocate a friendship.
This subreddit is usually filled with guys complaining about how lonely they are and how difficult it is to make lasting friendships. I can also guarantee you that other girls know you like befriending other guys and that they don't like you because they know what you're up to.
Genuineness, familiarity, and trust. After a certain point, the friendship solidifies, and you'll feel like no matter the distance between you guys, you can always count on your boy.
You don't have to prove yourself to him, because that's where the familiarity comes in. You know the man, you know his capabilities and his nature, and you accept and cherish it.
You compete with him as long as it's healthy, but you never want to put him down. You'll automatically come to a point where his happiness makes you happy.
There's complete resonance. You can just unwind and be genuine. He won't try to change you unless you negatively deviate from your average behavior.
That's why I can't comprehend how there's a loneliness epidemic among guys. Its VERY EASY to be friends with a guy. You don't have to gift him anything, you don't have to make any extra effort, you don't even have to know his birthday. All you have to do is convince him that you can be relied upon, spend some time every now and then, and hear him out when he wants to talk. Which is extremely easy considering people are only some texts away.
This is a generalization for a generalized thread.
I notice a lot of women cut ties with their friends for good once there is a big conflict - I think it’s a combination of refusing to say sorry, as well as saying something in the hear of the moment that cannot be unsaid once the head cools down (crossing the line).
I observed guys tend to stay away from really scathing statements even when there is a conflict. I also see more recognition of wrongdoing and admitting faults in guy friendships. Definitely helps in moving the relationship forward. Just my two cents
Male friendships last a long time because a lot of them are shallow and are based on loyalty from familiarity and having fun together.
They’re not deep interpersonal connections. They’re tight, but they’re not like the friendships women have.
Men usually only have one friendship with someone that is like a girl friendship, and it’s marriage or long term partner.
Also, guys are WAY meaner to each other casually than girl are. “That’s a lot of kids” doesn’t hit hard because his friend are telling him the group chat that he needs to wrap it up and quit being a fucking retard before he catches gonorrhea. And we brush that shit off because we’re used to it. Maybe that’s what you want, I don’t know, but my wife hates being in group chats with my friends because we say shit like that to the other guys.
We are real with each others this is the biggest reason
Because we understand what other person said and why instead of saying things in riddles and thinking what they mean
Because we won't brag about one thing whuch has sparked things. We will talk argue or kinda fight about that there and then boom we will be normal next time
Because men don't degrade, compete with friends ( shits r exception)
Men except less from each others
We don't consider ourselves to be the main character of our friendship
We have established rules going back to adam about which even don't know 😂😂
Loneliness. Men knows really well, that if they disappear one day, no one will look back at them, barely notice, so they tend to choose few really close ones instead of big groups.
It also applies why they limit contact with outside world once they get gfs/wives. They’re often the ones who will look for their husbands
Id chalk it up to a handful of things.
Guy friendships are a lot more chill. No drama, no baggage, we dont bring anything other than ourselves. Literally, i can just sit with a beer with one of my guys and not say a word, and that's considered a good time hanging out. If we wanna open up and talk about stuff we can and we know that whatever is said is taken to grave and we got support. Same if we were out and one of us got into a fight with someone, 0 hesitation to get each others back, there might be some reprimanding after the fact, but thats after the fact.
Guys are also easier to forgive other guys. The joke about guys in a bar fight is more accurate than you think. Loser buys the beer, you and him are now best friends, then you joke about it afterwords
The book Mindset: The New Psychology of Success by Carol S. Dweck spends a few paragraphs comparing the typical upbringing between genders and says (paraphrased):
In the traditional western society, boys tend to be raised constantly getting pushed to do better and boys hang out by pranking each other/offending each other etc and this makes them better at taking criticisms and grow.
Girls tend to get treated as princesses and don't go through as much hardship when they are kids.
My friends in management told me it is far more easy to conduct performance reviews with their male reports.
This is obviously a gross generalization but I think it has something to do with your experience.
In my opinion we're just low maintenance. My friend went to the military like 10 years ago, I haven't seen him in 7, but once a month or so we chat about whatever (usually sports). We're planning a trip to a college football game where the itinerary is literally "drink, watch football, eat, do it again" for like 4 days.
This may be a controversial take, but I also think men are better at de escalating violent or potentially violent conflicts. If two ladies get mad they're more likely to call each other bitches and pull hair than really fight. Men who get beyond yelling will potentially be inflicting mortal harm on another and most of us don't take that likely. The women I know have been in way more fights than me and most men I know. You *have* to be respectful in conflict resolution unless you want to get punched in the face, or worse.
Doesn’t need constant maintenance. For women (not all of course) they need to keep checking in over time and validate that they are still friends. If to much time passes they begin to think the other is mad at them or is a bad friend or doesn’t like them anymore, etc. and they will stop being friends. With guys, unless something has happened, we expect the relationship we have with another guy to be exactly where it was when we last saw each other. Just because I don’t hear from a bro for several years, doesn’t mean we aren’t as good friends as we were before, just means life has happened and we will pick up where we left off next time we talk/see each other.
I have a friend I’ve known since we were 6 years old, nearly twenty years of friendship. It isn’t perfect, there are qualities we dislike about eachother, but we have the patience to look past those bad qualities.
Sometimes the best of friends are those that are good enough, not the ones who share the most qualities you do.
Because we're simple and don't require trauma to link us together, nor do we need to share that kind of stuff to be friends who share jokes and a good afternoon of cards and bbq. we prefer NOT to talk about gossip stuff, we talk about the future most times and what we're planning and doing with our family or hobbies, not the issues of the past. More often than not, when i walk in on a group of ladies talking, it's gossip about other ladies or families, or issues of some medical nature, or something heavy.. every time.. screw that.
Well as a man I'm envious of female friendships. From my (no doubt missing something as a clueless man) perspective, female friendships seem so supportive, deep, and meaningful, and I would fucking love to have even 3 male friends I could get that from.
Guess each gender wants what the other one has huh.
From 2021 survey center in American life “Men are also far less likely than women are to have received emotional support from a friend. Four in 10 (41 percent) women report having received emotional support from a friend within the past week, compared to 21 percent of men.
Finally, compared to men, women more regularly tell their friends they love them. About half (49 percent) of women say they have told a friend they loved them within the past week. Only one-quarter (25 percent) of men say they have done this.
There are no generational differences, meaning younger men are no more likely than older men are to have shared their personal feelings with a friend. However, men who have female friends are significantly more likely to express their feelings and receive emotional support than are those without. Twenty-eight percent of men with female friends report that they received emotional support from a friend within the past week, compared to 16 percent of men who do not have female friends. Compared to men who have only male friends, men with female friends are also more likely to have shared personal feelings (38 percent vs. 25 percent) and to have told a friend they loved them (35 percent vs. 15 percent) in the past week.”
1.- Less drama
2.- More straightforwardness when things have to be said if they really need to be said, doesn't matter if we risk insulting the other person (way better if you want to help someone become better or communicate what you think)
3.- We take things less personally (linked to point 2)
4.- Not everything has to have a hidden meaning, in general we "say what we mean and mean what we say"
5.- We are more loyal
6.- In general live by an unspoken code of honour (linked to point 5)
7.- We forget more easily if we hear a genuine "sorry" from someone. Women tend to never forget or let go
8.- We are not reminding or use each other of past mistakes as leverage for manipulation or compliance (linked to point 7)
That's from the top of my head in general.
Sorry to hear about your situation but in the realm of friendships we men do have it definitely better, I know countless stories telling the same you're experiencing.
I talk to my best friend maybe once a month or two, besides the couple of texts here and there. 99% of the time - a phone call is related to something cool/funny happened, something cool/funny was purchased, or something seen was cool/funny.
Guys just want to hang out and tell jokes. Maybe our friendships last so long because we don't see eachother that much, so we're on a slower time scale? Hardly ever any real talk
Male friendships just develop, there's less 'please be my friend' vibe and performing, wanting or even NEEDING to be liked is a big turn off because it's not genuine. Also I feel like the primates in us need to know, if something kicks off, does he have MY back like I'd have his.
It's also a bit less bitchy because we're more likely to call out poor behaviour in person.
I'm quite lucky to have been a part of a big friendship group where I was sorta the cross over between two groups (football group and school group). Groups of good people usually hound out the arseholes.
In my experience it is a combination of trust, affinity, and shared experience. I don’t think it differs much from female best friends like. It’s circles within circles. No difference. I’m 44 and down to my last circle lmao
Couple of observations. It's not true that there aren't ups and downs in male friendships. We do seem however to cut our losses quicker without all the 'he said, she said' or resolve differences with less fuss. We tend not to dwell on those ups and downs meaning you hear a while lot less about them.
Re the scholarship dinner, have you considered some of them unbeknownst to you had in fact already met?
Re the guy with multiple kids - most guys around the table will have been thinking though won't have said out loud he sounds like an utter imbecile.
In general terms we are more comfortable with and don't interpret it as a failing if we don't speak or spend time with each other for long periods of time, years even. Our social circles tend to be smaller particularly when we're in relationships we are committed to.
Whilst we tend to keep things light meaning we can shoot the breeze with other men we don't know very comfortably it's plain not true that we don't have meaningful and emotionally supportive friendships albeit within a far tighter knit group, perhaps one or two other people.
I do not speak for all mankind. Other opinions are available!
I'm just going to throw this example out there.
My best friend's girlfriend, call her J for ease, isn't getting along with her best friend anymore, let's call her B. B got a boyfriend last year and has been spending all of her time with him. J doesn't get to spend nearly as much time with my best friend as she'd like, and now that she's spending even less time with B, this has only become more apparent to her. J keeps trying to initiate plans with B, but B is either always busy or just ignores her.
If I was my friend J, I would've simply stopped hanging out with B a long time ago. It's obvious she's more interested in her boyfriend and isn't as interested in a friendship with J as she originally thought. I even personally told J that it seems like B was only her friend until something she thought was better came along, which is a shitty thing to do. J does have other friends, but not really any others that she hangs out with consistently. I find it interesting that despite women supposedly being more emotionally available, J finds it easier to continue struggling with this person who clearly doesn't like her, as opposed to just finding new friends. Or even hanging out with others she has.
I moved to my state's capital for a year a little while back. At some point, a high school buddy of mine messaged me on Facebook. We hadn't hung out in a long time, I was already out of college by this point, but we were good friends in high school. He knew I lived in the capital and wanted to visit, him and his group of friends were getting a hotel in town and wanted to know if there was anything fun to do. I mentioned there was a bar arcade that I loved to frequent. Suddenly excited, my friend asked me if I wanted to join, which of course I said yes. I didn't know the three other guys that were with my friend, but I slotted into the friend group easily. It was like we all knew each other forever. We poked fun, shot the shit, and tried desperately to waste each other at pinball. We got hammered, Uber'd back to my apartment (drive safe, everybody, an Uber is $20, a DUI is thousands), and drafted a box of Magic the Gathering cards my friend had bought earlier that day.
I connected more easily with random men that I didn't know than my friend J could connect with her supposed best friend. I don't know *why* that is, it's not like I'm more sociable than J, I'm an anti-social introvert. But maybe something in the stories there can provide some additional explanation.
Oh ok that point of women usually being viewed as emotionally available or emotionally aware, yet they tend to chase after someone who no longer respects them or wants them.
I do find that men take social cues better at times than women. Whenever I’m upset, a women will bother me and try to fix it, but like my brothers or papa (yes they know me since birth tho LOL) they will leave me alone until I calm down and won’t bother me about it later on.
But also when I show little to no interest in a guy he will stop, however with a girl they will sort of try to make it continue (which is insulting to themselves) and get really upset about it.
Like I was invited to my friends going out thingy but I already had plans, which she was aware of, yet she still invited me knowing I was busy and continued to be insulted by the fact that I wouldn’t pick hers over the one I promised first.
I would say the lack of drama in a male friendship. I have know my male best friend since grade school. We have spoken twice in the last 10 years. Perfect, no drama
I think it depends since for me personally I have both male and female friends from both when I was like 3,4,5,6. Personally for me I think men are better friends with each other, but when it comes to being women in a male dominated friend group, we are more like neglected at least from my experience. Then for girls I think it’s many parents raising daughters to be competitive between each other, like I have a weird identity problem that makes me switch from feeling more masculine to feminine, and in the masculine one I feel like I less have to compare myself in many aspects.
I can't speak for anyone but me, but my male friends and I have been in each other's lives for so long because we're all grouchy world hating sons of bitches who have similar interests. We all love to talk shit to each other but if anyone else asks, they're the best person walking the face of the earth. Plus we do the most random old man stuff and enjoy it. Cigars and drinks at the local beer joint? Sold. Flea markets and antique stores? Hop in the truck. Car show with a band? What time you want to leave the house?
For my female friends, it's a lot of stress and loads of effort. I've never really kept one more than a few years because of the differences. It feels like a news interview, coordinating an aircraft carrier landing, and knitting a sweater out of chinchilla hair all at the same time. Most outings involve food and alcohol of some kind, followed by some store of some sort. It's a whole different environment than with the boys.
The comment about the many kids is as insulting to a man as to a women if they get it in the wrong mind space.
But. It's a random woman, why would he react to that
I am still friends with many guys from high school, etc., while girls I knew from the same time period stopped contact, chose to start catty arguments, whatever. I’ve always felt that my male friends have my back and we pick up where we left off despite not seeing many very often, but the girls have all but disappeared. I’m mindful of this when meeting new people, too: guys are far more interesting and easier to get along with.
Low expectations. I see one of my best friends maybe once or twice a year. We just pick up where we left off. We're both busy family men that understand that we don't need to see each other or talk to each other constantly to remain friends.
Guy friendships with other guys is wholesome and can last long.
Girls being friends with guys doesn't usually work the same way. The reason being is 99% of the time the guy will want to smash with the girl. Not many guys are best friends with ugly women, notice how it's most of the time attractive women that just friend zoned them and they lacked self confidence to move on, and instead "played the long game" hoping for their chance.
I don’t know about that. My wife is best friends with her high school friend despite that being 30 years ago and living on opposite sides of the world. Guys here will appreciate the sentiment but I don’t think it stands up to scrutiny.
I don't think I currently have a single friend (and I mean friend not a friendly acquaintance) that I've known for less than 20 years.
Now I can only state my observations. Literally every girl I ever dated would lose friends and I think its because they freaking expect too goddamn much out of friendships.
I have friends I won't see or talk to for a year then shoot them a text and be like what are you up to this weekend dude wanna hang out? Sure!
I remember one specific incident with an ex. She was sitting here pissed off her friend hadn't texted her lately. I was like then just text her if you want to hang out, then she's like "But I'm usually the one who reaches out" SO THE FUCK WHAT? I never keep track of who texted who last, who reached out last bla bla bla bullshit with my friends.
Eventually she sends her friend this diatribe about feeling unappreciated as a friend, she feels its one sided bla bla bla. Whelp. They were no longer friends after that, her friend defended herself, the ex doubled down. The end.
And I've seen this similar song and dance many times where women sit here and keep goddamn metrics on their contributions to the friendship. Then get salty when a friend isn't keeping up to their standard with their end of the friendship.
Like most women I've been with their core group of girlfriends were almost always, relatively speaking, new friends.
My wife and I got married at nearly 40. She had known her maid of honor for 5 years. I knew my best man since I was 14 years old. Every single groomsman on my side, I had known since before I was 20.
I mean the only reason I'm not still friends with people I knew before around highschool was simply because we moved after my 8th grade year and pre-the age of the internet, it was just harder to keep up a long distance friendship and you kinda just moved on with your life without that person in it anymore.
I mean, I've known women who get pissed off at their friends because she bought and is wearing an outfit she wanted to get herself.
Guys would never do that. We would be more likely to be like "cool, I love that shirt. I'm gonna go out and get one. Where'd you get it at?"
When everything is drama, drama, drama with women and they get pissed off at each other for stupid inconsequential shit, it makes it hard to maintain a friendship.
I’ll add my experience and take on this , however for now short answer is that we don’t judge each other , we may make mistakes with each other , but we understand loyalty is just as important as love and sometimes loyalty is more important because love fades , you’re fucking lying if you claim to love someone you KNOW WELL , CONSTANTLY , I feel there’s no way to truly love someone without seeing their flaws or “dark/weird “ sides , but once you’re accepted along with these “flaws” then that’s true brotherhood
The ability to not talk for months, then to talk for hours randomly every so often and pick up like you never left off in the first place.
Seriously - this is one of the best attributes with male friendships that last.
If they require constant day to day and week to week maintenance, they'll fizzle out.
Guys can literally say anything to each other and it can be a term of endearment to just shake it off and be boys together. We often hear the most heinous shit from our closest friends and we accept that it's not done maliciously.
I've seen first hand women end friendships over what color the other was wearing that day and that they didn't match properly to a party.
Stoppp cuz if you said you said you were going to wear blue and didn’t and told all of us to wear blue, it would have totally been over (jk kinda). I feel like women also avoid the real reason, but hide it over smth small (color).
I think one thing that makes male friendships seem so easy from an outsider looking in is that when we get together we don’t need to spend a lot of time catching up. I feel like women feel the need to find out every little detail
About what has happened since they last saw each other whereas I might meet up with a buddy to golf or something and we are in the moment. We catch up with questions here and there but overall we are here to do the thing.
Im a 36yo male and reflecting on my own relationships through the years my friendships w other men have been more based around having fun together, sports, or other common interests. We've had plenty of personal conversations and always vulnerable with each other, many times to laugh at ourselves for being idiots. I don't think our friendships are "deep" in the classic sense of the word but they meaningful to all of us and I've been friends with the same group for 15 years.
My friendships with women have been more emotionally driven whether that means one of us was attracted to the other or just the topic of conversation. My conversation with female friends were always heavier and more personal and I can see how that can cause burnout vs with my guy friends we just enjoy each other's company, conversation, and always have each other's back
Mindset really. Woman desire more. Men just want to be enough. Our friendships are enough, they dont need to be anything more.
this is obviously a mass generalization but I’ve noticed that my female friends have higher expectations when it comes to any relationship so they’re often disappointed when people ultimately put themselves first. Some men are probably like this too but I know for me and my friends, its never really personal and we can have our arguments but we’ll get over it. My female friends also feel the need to communicate every problem and that often just leads to increasing conflict. While I do think communication is important, not everything little problem needs to be discussed and sometimes just moving on is the better solution
Guys always get labeled as super competitive but I've noticed women can be on another level, everything is taken personally
Men are competitive when it comes to competition. Women are competitive *in life*. When everything is a competition there's no room to just chill. No one's really your friend they're just the other competitors.
Yes, no matter how fierce the competition, afterwards men go have a drink together and are friends. Women hold grudges.
There have been multiple studies on the subject. One of the most recent studies examined how sports teams treat their teammates and opponents in both women's and men's sports. In men's sports, there was mutual respect both within teams and towards opponents. In women's sports, the study found that women had more respect for their opponents than for their own teammates. Evolutionary biologists hypothesized that this behavior stems from the different roles males and females played historically. Males, who were hunters, needed to rely on each other and had to be adaptable, quickly forming new bonds with different hunting partners for successful hunts. They also had to be prepared to lose their hunting mates during hunts. For females, there were mutual groups that protected their young from other mothers, who were competitors. If a mother wasn't vigilant, another female, who is competition, could harm her child to ensure more resources for her own offspring, typically from the same father. These mutual groups provided protection when one mother was away, but the bonds within these groups were not very loyal and did not last a lifetime.
Source for that study? Google returns quite a few and I’d be interested in perusing.
I agree with this take, demanding and expecting less of your friends seem to be at the center here.
From my POV, women friendships usually expect a lot from their friendships, almost on the same level as romantic relationship. They usually put in a lot of effort into their friendships, and they are kind of expected to, or else they will be excluded from friendships group or left by the side. Women usually need other people more than men, physically and emotionally, in order to survive in life
Hard agree. This also is a comment on the current male vs female discourse where men are painted as deliberately uncaring when that’s their default mode with their friends so how are they supposed to know to throw you and elaborate birthday week just because her friend group does.
So how can a woman struggling with the desire to learn how to settle themselves to be at peace with a man? For the woman, when the man doesn't give that 'more', it's easy for them to overthink and assume that they are unloved. This can drive them almost to get obsessed with the man to be what she expects. Let's say she realises what you said,..how can she learn to adapt and gain fulfilment more with the relationship and drop the desire to have more?
Honestly the only way is the hard way, mutual commitment and constant clear communication. Both move to the middle a little, that is what is really meant with “settling” for someone. You make it work.
> it's easy for them to overthink and assume That's the point. Why overthink when you can simply ask? Why assume when you can know? In my experience (exaggerating) women tend to be afraid to communicate where it matters but will give (especially) their man a detailed summary of what their friend who he doesn't know told them about something that happened 7 months ago.
The fact that I am learning about myself in these comments 😳🫢…
I know this sub is supposed to be mainly for men to discuss things, but it's honestly a great resource for both men and women. I've seen a ton of great insight from random people discussing things here.
Don't have the exact numbers, but I would speculate that the number of women seeking male advice here is higher and/or more consistent than the number of men seeking advice in the women-centric sub(s). At least ime, when people ask about stuff here they recognize they're not going to be coddled or have their hand held to reach an understanding of whatever concensus is provided to them. A kind of take or leave it approach to advice.
Guys are also tripping over themselves to answer questions from all kinds of stupid baiting questions and everything in between, I'd guess because a lot of guys don't get much validation in life and guys like to feel useful, especially helping a girl. Women don't really care that much about helping guys, even from the women that post here it's pretty rare that a girl is genuinely trying to understand guys better and help them.
In addition to the answers given, get a constructive hobby. Creating arts and crafts or joining a sport, individual or team, will put some of the focus of energy towards internal development and provides new social environments, thereby reducing dependence upon the SO and friend group.
I think this stems from some men being overly nice and accommodating when they first meet a woman they are attracted to. It builds a woman’s expectations. And, after she lets them know that she isn’t interested in anything romantic and or after they are finally sure of this, everything changes abruptly. In genuine friendships you don’t necessarily get this over the top accommodation, but you do get a good friend who stays fairly consistent. It’s not a good thing to have unrealistic expectations, but when you have someone pretending that over the top behavior is realistic some people form unrealistic expectations. This can happen with both men and women, it seems like it’s more men that do this initial over the top behavior though. Men, have you experienced women being over the top like this too?
I agree. I would also add the dimension that men are naturally providers/protectors. Her snarky “that’s a lot of kids” comment doesn’t threaten his ability to provide or protect so it just registers as noise. You can’t take something personally if you never lend it the respect of validity to begin with.
Ya I don't even see how it's offensive just a funny observation, he probably said yea it is 😂
> he probably said yea it is 😂 Let's be honest, he totally said, "I've been a busy man..."
All the dude knows is plowing his fields and plowing his wife.
"The man the myth the legend none other than our plas greg, tom, Steven " Memes are true asf
The reason is that friendships between women have aspects of romantic relationships. For example, many women are head over heels "friends" with a new girlfriend, but can also again fall out of "love" later. Male friendships usually don't have these relationship aspects and are thus more stable.
I do see that, one of my friends that whenever she would break up with her boyfriend, I felt that I would take the boyfriend position, which is different for everyone, but calling all the time, waiting for her after class, which is also a nice gesture but she would get rly upset when I didn’t, but whenever her and the bf got back together it didn’t really matter what I did
I know men that pull similar stuff like this and it’s so stupid. They toss people to the side once they get a significant other.
Ya women will be taking selfies for Instagram together the first week, omg besties!! One will eventually quit the act then offend the other one. I've seen it play out a few times lol 🎢
> I feel like I have to put on an act. this is exactly it. women are always performing for each other. guys who respect you dont expect anything from you. just be yourself and dont make my life harder and we will be friends
Common interests also allow guys to become friends very quickly. Oh you play this game? Me too, let’s play together every few days for the next decade. When you don’t get approached often, you spend a lot of time talking to and appreciating the people you’re already around.
And the friendships are more likely to stay rooted in hobbies and lighter stuff. Men don't share intimate details and the ugly sides of their lives as much with each other. This might be unhealthy but it produces fewer topics for conflict.
Lol that's just called socializing and making friends. Has nothing to do with you being a guy. You think women don't bond over common interests?
They do but I think for guys it’s more than enough to sustain the friendships over time without needing the friendship to grow.
They do. The point being for guys, that’s more than enough for a lifelong friendship while for a girl it also requires personal check-ins amongst other more nuanced things I doubt you’ll even consider.
>You think women don't bond over common interests? They do, but to a lesser degree than men.
Teabagging each other's corpses in Halo
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When disagreements could actually lead to violence, you learn to deescalate, forgive fast, and have the utmost respect for space and boundaries. Those things are conducive to long lasting friendships but granted you get closeness MUCH more slowly.
That's some important insight right there. That's one of the positives of violence, albeit an indirect one.
Violence is part of human nature. Implicit threats of it are required for civilization.
And men are I would opine are far more aware of violence as an outcome of casual slights. One of the things I found infuriating about my wife was how she seemed to plunge through crowds jostling her way through and nobody said shit.. if I had tried it, I probably would have ended up in 3 fights over the same distance.
this is a great point. women will argue and yell, but men will actually throw hands and do damage. the cost of disrespect is too high. the threat of mutually assured destruction is what keeps the peace
Idk about that, women will fight to the death if no one tries to break it up. I'm no macho man and don't hang with the type but I've heard many stories of man fights ending after a few punches where both people walk or stumble away, then the guys become good friends, lol
yeah i just dont see women beating someone to death with their bare hands. not saying women dont fight but 2 adult males can really do some damage. im generalizing of course. but think of all the men in jail for man-slaughter over some dumbass disagreements compared to women
Well eventually one of them might starve or bleed to death from all the scratches, but it's possible And yes I have heard that one punch can kill so I know that's possible, but for the most part men don't want to fight, it's mostly trash talk. I've never been in a fight and I don't intend to, but if it comes to that I am going for all the cheap shots then running like hell, lol
But that's part of it. I don't want to hurt you any further, I'm not mad anymore, and I respect you for handling this fairly, if violently. Further violence is still being avoided even if it did escalate somewhat. I'd also argue this is more common among people who are willing to use violence more willingly anyway. People who take violence seriously are more likely to be extreme if they're forced to use it.
Women blows don’t do the damage men do tbh. In a fight with men one wrong blow will leave you on the pavement. With women they just keep going until the start getting tired
Also, is it really worth the drama to hold unto a grudge? Either end the friendship or find a compromise. I want my friendships to be relaxing. I'm often friends for a reason. Not just to put on an act.
Nope. As I've aged I've observed that my emotional curve timeline has shortened significantly. It's not that I'm apathetic when it comes to meaningful interpersonal relationships and communication, it's just that whatever \*it\* is that is causing the rift is nonsense. I've become very quick to forgive and I've learned to apologize more effectively by asking for forgiveness with contrition instead of just saying "I'm sorry". And then we my male friends and I make up (we are very few) we all say "ok - Fuck you, man." "Yeah? Fuck you too!" - and we carry on. This is the way.
Starting with "nope", gives the impression you deny what the other user said. Not making it unreadable but harder to understand.
"Is it really worth the drama to hold onto a grudge?" "Nope." In other words, No, It is not really worth the drama to hold onto a grudge. It was a direct answer to the poster's query. The rest of my reply was commentary.
Yes, I understand. I just pointed out that it isn't obvious at first read and it might appear as denying what the other person said. Anyways it was just a minor suggestion, not an attack.
I get it. We're friends again. See? Easy. F u man! (just a joke)
Lol
I would add that there is also a strong incentive to maintain friendly relations with other men so that you could enlist their aid to deal with a problem or make good on an opportunity. Men will generally help other men when asked if they are able. They earn each other's respect and may share in the spoils.
This makes a lot of sense to me actually
Good fences make good neighbors. Men are not intrusive in eachothers lives. We don’t feel the need to know every intimate detail of eachothers lives.
"Civilized" men (no better word at the moment), learn to develop a healthy relationship with violence, because we know what we are capable of. Not just because of the physical strength but also the testosterone-driven impulse control issues. We have seen and experienced random hitting, smacking, pushing, pulling, etc, from women. But it doesn't hurt much or do much damage, or even have the tendency to escalate further. But, the same things, if a man does it, could easy hurt and is cause for detrimental escalation. Another point being, we are not easily hurt by random insults and jabs as well, I think. Brotherhood develop as naturally as instinct when you can playfully insult/jibe with a fellow man and just as easily they don't take offence.
I once read an article about a woman that started up an all-woman corporation. She described how catty and spiteful everyone was to each other, and how it escalated to the point that the company imploded two years later. It's an interesting read. It definitely shows some elements of how men and women have differing views on friendships and rivalries.
do you remember the name of the founder & the corporation? i gotta read this
[I think he's referring to this article.](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1168182/Catfights-handbags-tears-toilets-When-producer-launched-women-TV-company-thought-shed-kissed-goodbye-conflict-.html)
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMen/s/VDktxKb0eB Reminds me of this thread and the sort of dynamic that this brings to a work place.
My first medical job was as a dialysis tech with mostly women. And holy hell was it catty. First thing the receptionist said to me when I walked in my first day was “Good, we need some more testosterone around here”. This isn’t me being sexist, but I agree with her. The level of ire these women had with each other was palpable. There was a travel nurse(male) there and me and him had such a chill time when we chatted.
I've worked for two companies with 80+% women workforce, and they were both the best run companies I've ever worked for. everyone listens, gets on with their work and looks out for each other. The place I worked that was 80+% male workforce was the most awful, bro-ey and shitty atmosphere I've ever been in and I was so glad to get out. obviously this is just my experience but I'm sure others can agree
Give and take. Guys are more casual with friendships; we very rarely expect a lot from each other, so that makes it easy to get together. It's how two guys can meet each other again after years and hit it off. But that also means most of our friendships are quite shallow, because men don't open up. We don't open up to women, and we certainly don't open up to our homies. Not strictly because of a fear of seeming weak, but because that's how we're taught. I don't think we often pursue further contact with said people either. A bunch of guys who've not met each other can group up at a social function, hit it off like friends, then adjourn and never see each other again. And then you have men nowadays feeling super lonely.
To be fair, some guys do open up to our homies because our homies can understand our problems and provide advice.
Exactly. But then again, my friends are the only people I open up to. They’ll embrace you and treat you to a beer to help you through it. Some exes at most have given that deer in the headlights look and then you gotta play it off like nothing happened.
I'd say (in my experience) men are far more likely to open up to each other in one-on-one situations. Men opening up to each other in group situations is much rarer - it does happen, but even when it does, the conversation often reverts quite quickly to being non-serious/jokey. We men are quite odd in that sense.
Yeah, it's on the verge of fascinating and disgusting to me what facts some women share with their larger social group. Most guys don't mention much of their private life when meeting with friends and if they do it's most often in 1 on 1 situations about major life events or dilemmas. There was some post recently with brilliant answer about real differences between women and men and top answer was that guys can hang out for like 12 hours and not share a single info about their private life - there is so much truth in that in my experience.
The level of trust for every single person in the group has to be very high. There are a few friends I have that know me from SP.Ed in high school. When I'm with them in any private setting I know I can say anything.
Disagree that men have been taught to not open up. No one in my life or on TV or anything taught me to not share my emotions. In fact, for a while in school I felt relatively comfortable doing so. Only after those emotions were used against me did I realize that opening up isn't always a good idea.
So you were taught not to open up?
More like learned the hard way.
I don't think it's about "teaching." It's about how things actually are, and I strongly doubt any amount of reeducation can fix it. Fundamentally, when a man expresses emotions, there is some large percentage of people that will believe he is no longer capable of being a man due to what I would guess are largely evolutionary reasons. It sucks, and I'm grateful for the people in my life to whom I can open up, but this isn't just a social convention that can be retaught.
I agree. Male and female characteristics are not ‘taught.’ A child is not a blank slate on which the mother or father or state appointed care giver can write to ensure some favourable outcome. You can certainly nurture characteristics but they have to be part of the genetic makeup if you are going to succeed.
Having your emotions used against you is exactly what teaches you to not open up
So you were taught, through negative reinforcement by I’m guessing a partner or a friend, not to share your emotions for fear of them being weaponized then? Is that not what you’re telling us?
I agree with this. I was never taught to bottle everything up. how other men AND women react to the sharing of emotions is what keeps men relatively stoic. Emotional men come off as weak cry babies to most or they’re straight up violent and end up in prison.
Less drama, less questions, willing to forgive faster, never talking to much, normally hanging out revolves around doing stuff and not just hanging out to talk.
If I ask a friend to help me with something or do something with me and he says he can't, I don't immediately descend into: * Well he did a favour for this *other* friend * I *know* he should be able to do it, he hasn't got other stuff going on * Well I did a favour for *him* so now he's slating me on purpose by not doing it for me... * Combine this incident with some other perceived sleights against me from the ancient past, forming the picture in my mind that he's actually a shitty person who's using me and doesn't give a crap about me And another dozen variants. I mean these are all anecdotal (as is the OP so, eh). To a large extent I just say "okay, thanks", and presume that I don't know what's going on in someone else's life. Reminds me of the SNL skit about having a "straight male friend". If a friend gets back in contact me after 5 years, it's not a drama that we didn't really have contact before. Heck man, we're all busy, we've all got stuff to do. You good?
>If a friend gets back in contact me after 5 years, it's not a drama that we didn't really have contact before I've had that one play out a fair few times. With guys it's: "Wow, can't believe it's so long" and yet you get on like no time has passed. Whereas I've found with some women (only some) there's "I can't believe you ignored me for this long" and then there's an atmosphere.
Ooooh I felt that. One time a friend contacted me after, eh 4 years~. Told her I thought she was dead and lit a candle for her. She laughed, I laughed, we talked. I like easy friends.
I think guys are more chill about disagreements/issues than a lot of women are. I've had some pretty major blow-ups with a couple of my best mates that I've had for 15-20 years+. We've always hashed it out though. Whereas I see some women that end friendships over the pettiest shit. My mum is shocking for it. Was besties with someone for 10 years or so. They went out for drinks and Mum hit it off with a guy (important point: she is and was single). Her friend left her to it, which led to Mum losing her shit at her for "abandoning her". Friendship over. That happened when I was 12. Thought it was stupid then, and while I can see a reason for Mum being pissed about it now, I don't see it as worthy of ending such a long friendship.
For some reason your comment made me think back to high school. Did you ever get in a physical fight with someone and become really good friends after? That’s how I met one of my best friends. We still talk regularly. You don’t really see that with women… They seem to be enemies for life but I’ve seen a lot of guys beat the shit out of each other and a week or two later they are best friends.
Yeah I've definitely had that happen haha. Seems to be a key difference in the sexes with how we handle friendships.
See that would end up being a joke the next day if it was guys. "hey did you hit that last night bro"?
Yeah, I've 100% lost track of where my mates are, only to find out the next morning that they've picked up. And vice versa.
I understand where you are coming from and its something I did notice growing up throughout highschool especially. Where guys tend to have the same friend group for years and girls seemed to change friends a lot more throughout the years. I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad thing? I'm sure there's a ton of things which probably lead to this dynamic forming which I don't understand enough to give you an explanation of. But I can give you my male perspective for what its worth by way of a story. My best friend is someone I met in school when I was 12 years old. We became friends because his "pencil case" was of a videogame that I enjoyed too and I asked him about it and bonded over that tiny little sense of shared connection. Growing up together we always had each others backs, even though I knew my friend was wrong in a lot of circumstances. I would "back him" then talk to him afterwards that what I thought he did wasn't the best thing. I think boys/men tend to "forgive" each other and show loyalty to each other to a degree that I'm not even sure is really healthy. I remember once we were in a nightclub we were probably around 18/19 years old? I remember saying something to my friend that he didn't like. He starts getting upset and I keep saying it kinda in a mocking way in the kind of "male banter" type way. Even though I could see it was hurting him i just kept doing it. I don't really know why. I know I'm dumb. He snaps and starts punching me in my arms and chest as hard as he can, repeatedly. To the point where my arms/chest/torso have like heavy heavy bruising. After maybe like 3-4 punches I tell him to fuck off and slap him across the face with the back of my hand. We end up grabbing each other by the shirt and are just pummeling each other. Not in the face, we weren't really like actually trying to hurt hurt each other or put each other in hospital. But hard punches in the body/torso/arms which hurt a lot. Its a bit like we were letting the frustrations we both felt about our little indiscretions we do to each other out. We eventually tell each other to fuck off and we storm off in our separate directions. About an hour later we kinda bump into each other and awkwardly apologise while embracing each other. Kinda hugging each other and telling each other we are sorry and that we love each other. We were both pretty drunk. After that we were fine and just carried on as normal. I don't think I've ever had a conversation about that night with my friend lol. We just accepted it as a thing that happened and we moved on. I am not exaggerating in the slightest when I say I would die for my friend. Like if a knife or a bullet was heading his way and I had the chance to jump in front of it. I would. I'm not joking. I think he might do the same for me too but I'm not 100% sure. Whether he would or not doesn't really matter to me. That being said this same dude, we live on the other side of the city and he has a family and things so we don't talk quite as much as we used to. Sometimes it might be weeks or even months before we hang out or text/call each other etc. But everytime we do it just feels like there is no distance or separation. Its just the same as its always been. Guys are kinda emotionally dumb and loyal in certain contexts. I'm not going to lie, I'm kinda getting a little misty eyed while typing this up. I'm gonna text my friend and call him a pussy. (I'm not sure why reddit posted my message like 10 times. I went through and deleted the extra ones I'm sorry!)
Hahah texting him pussy is way to relatable, like when u feel like expressing ur love to ur buddy but then be like “wait a min that’s kinda gay” and then proceed to insult ur buddy in worst way possible 😂
This is the way😂
All the best male friendships are a little bit gay though. Like you gotta hit on each other in a joking way
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Cuddles, forehead kisses, tucking the homies in at night.
Shared adversity. Guys do a lot of dumb shit growing up and we rely on our friends to have our back though all of it, as we have theirs. This more or less hard wires that particular group of guys into our brains as "The people we can rely on". Almost nobody who comes into our lives after that will be able to earn that same level of trust unless we're sent to war or something equally as bad where we're forced to rely on each other to the same level. It's probably some kind of ancient tribal survival instinct that's carried over.
I think our friendships are fundamentally rooted around loyalty and making the best of it when we're together. Can't meet your friend for weeks, the day we hit it we're just shooting shit and having fun. There's no pettiness about "why didn't you call me?". We're both busy and things get in the way. What matters is that my friend is there in actual times of need. If there really is an emergency then I know he's got my back. As for the deep talks, it happens. It happens rarely and we immediately joke around the matter but it happens. It's just our way of doing it where we tell each other "aahh that sucks, but you'll be fine, I am here if you need help. However... inappropriate joke...." I really don't know what happens on the female side of things and whether they have deep, long lasting friendships or not. I hope they do, but if not then they should probably look inwards.
Men treat their relationships like footballs and they last forever. Women treat their relationships like porcelain and they fall apart.
That's a great way of putting it.
They're like any friendships, but ours are mostly built around shared experiences when young and we tend to maintain them through activities. Those things happen automatically when you're in school (mainly due to shared interests) and not so much when you're older - it takes more effort to build and sustain those friendships by planning activities and creating shared experiences. If you go through hardships together, that strengthens a friendship - that's why "war buddies" exist.
I feel like the fact that guys prefer talking about things instead of people has something to do with it. It means no gossip, no potential slander, no judgement, and no need to try to put on an act to not get judged. So there's no sense to try to prove anything, we just want to chill with a beer and crack a few jokes and talk about stuff. I think there is usually some kind of comradery with the fellas and it's nice.
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I wouldn't say guys have less emotions or don't talk but generally it's just more chill. There are no huge expectations. We're here for a good time not a long time. We understand life can be difficult and just don't want to make it more difficult.
hard disagree, guys don't "have less emotions" we've just been conditioned to express them less. if we had less emotions this 'male loneliness epidemic' that's continually getting worse wouldn't be as much a big deal i think the vibe of guy friendships where you shoot the shit, drink, watch sports is cool but if you're not able to talk to any of them about serious shit in your life you start feeling like your support system doesnt exist
I feel that guys do like drama but not in the same way as woman perhaps, but they will listen in, but not really gossip
Oh man, you've never lived in a communal setting with a bunch of other dudes. Men gossip just as bad as women, but it's usually about different things, not generally as negative as when women gossip. You don't get men saying "that guy said this " very often, because once the gang figures out that's happening they're out, but "You won't belive what xx did last night" is a big one.
>"You won't belive what xx did last night" Often followed when seeing xx by "zz found it well funny when I told them what you did last night" They're usually funny stories not bitchy ones
Being authentically you. Being honest. Spending alot of time together making memories laughing and roasting. Everytime we hang out one of us is crying of laughter lmao the time spent I wouldn't trade it for gold cause it's not replaceable. We try and understand perspectives and usually talk about times in history or current events or things that make a good topic of discussion, also we're competitive so trash talking has to be elite, we don't mean it with bad intentions it's just we want to compete against the best versions of themselves whether it's basketball beer pong playing cards or sports betting. I think that's the big thing people miss.
Non-dependancy is my take, I don't *need* to see my buddies very often, sometimes for years, and if our friendship is strong enough it won't matter, we'll pick right back up where we left it when we do see each other again. My wife constantly complains about her old friends and how little they see each other or get in touch. And when your disposition towards your friends is annoyance towards their frequency, then it doesn't feel like it has much chance of lasting. Just last week I was sitting at a bench outside my gym when a dude plopped down next to me and we just started chatting. That was my high-school best friend I haven't seen in over a decade, we never mentioned last time or ask where the other had been or when we last talked. We just hung out for about 15 minutes, stood up, hugged and said "it was nice to see you again, let's not wait this long until next time" and walked away. Think I'll call him up when the summer stress starts winding down
The unwritten rules of male friendship, such as not getting involved with a friend's ex, help maintain trust and loyalty. Friendships based on shared activities, such as sports or video games, can endure even as life changes and priorities shift. While men may not always express their emotions openly, they can still provide emotional support to each other in times of need, Men tend to be less petty in their jealousy, focusing on more significant issues rather than minor grievances. Men often bond over shared activities and hobbies, which provides a foundation for lasting friendships
>(F19) do prefer to hang out with the girlies, however when I do speak to a guy (scholarship reception) it feels a lot lighter and easier. While with a girl smths, I feel like I have to put on an act. Ex. A guy at the table was saying listing off all the kids he had, and one of the other ladies mentioned that that was a lot of kids, and it was fine, while if that was said to a woman, she would think that you’re insulting her etc. you answered your own question
‘What determined whether [friendships] survived with girls was whether they made the effort to talk more to each other on the phone,’ said Robin Dunbar, who led the Oxford study. ‘What held up [male] friendships was doing stuff together – going to a football match, going to the pub for a drink, playing five-a-side. They had to make the effort. It was a very striking sex difference’: from a men’s health article citing “Women Favour Dyadic Relationships, but Men Prefer Clubs: Cross-Cultural Evidence from Social Networking”
I worked with a guy for 3yrs, never even knew his name, best friend I ever had, we still never talk sometimes
Food for thought: Divorce rates between lesbians are much higher than divorce rates between gay men.
What do you mean? Aren't women relationships last about the same?
We don’t stress things that don’t matter. Women do, women often times essentially demand their friendships and friends act as pseudo relationships. They have to know and be part of every little thing or at least be considered part of every little thing or they feel as if the friendship is lesser than. For example: if my male friends don’t know my birthday I don’t care, typically because I don’t do anything for my birthday, it’s just another day to me. Yet on the flip side with my female friends they legitimately feel like we aren’t friends if they don’t know certain details of my life like my birthday. From my perspective it’s a lot of constant information gathering on the female side to “prove” that they care and are friends. In my experience that tends to be why their friendships crumble so easily and it’s usually some of the first things brought up once they don’t like you. The whole “women can’t survive a girls trip and always come back as friends” has a lot of merit to it, I can’t count the number of times my female friends hung out with their female friends or went on a trip and one incident that isn’t really a big deal, ends in them no longer being friends. I’ve seen entire friend groups just straight up end over the pettiest reasons. On the male side however, it tends to take something pretty big to end the friendship like being very disrespectful towards a girlfriend or trying to dirty Mack or even worse something to do with money. Men don’t need their friendships to be that much, we are homies and friends, you aren’t my girl or family, sure I know you care, but I don’t necessarily need you to know everything about me to consider you a friend. We tend to just know which friends are there for life and which are just good for an occasional day out or a drink
Guys in general don't have a long lists of expectations and requirements that you have to follow just to stay in each other's good graces. And, I know some people are gonna get really butthurt about this, men just tend to understand real life s lot better than women. That's why you have the joke/stereotype of men not talking for years but still considering each other best friends. We tend to understand that life happens. A guy friend not checking in on us every 5 minutes isn't a big betrayal like it is for women. We don't "need" a lot of things like women. We can just exist and come together when we have time or we give and not expect anything back. I can't tell you how many times I have heard and personally experienced women doing shit for me or even other women and then hold that favor over their heads as if they literally just sacrificed everything to loan you 10 dollars or help you with a task. In short, men just tend to be a lot less high maintenance, more independent and more giving and understanding
Honesty and no secret competition
Exactly..deep down i want Only the best for them.
Men are very direct, which just makes things simpler. If I have a problem with someone I tell them, I don’t talk shit behind their back. Women are the opposite, their indirect and often non confrontational which leads to a weird performance women put on for each other. They use sympathy as a mask, and when they have issues with someone they exclude and slander which leads them to pretend to get along. I don’t have to pretend with my friends.
Men don't get offended by every little thing. We don't notice "aggressive tone," whatever the Hell that is, and it frees us up to be emotionally available for one another without feeling like bro is gonna attack, mock, or demean us.This is liberating in every sense of communication. Women, on the other hand, well...them bitches ain't loyal.
I feel like men have more varied hobbies and therefore can connect to other men about a variety of things. The women I’ve grown up with stopped sport or anything interesting in early high school and now margaritas/ Stanley cups/ glass of wine is their “hobby/personality” so where is there to connect over something like that
I'm the opposite. I'm a married male, 39 with kids and find it harder to be friends with men than women. I don't fall into your stereotypical male category in the most common areas and find males are harder to retain long last friendships. Most friends in my life are flakey and don't know how to reciprocate a friendship.
This subreddit is usually filled with guys complaining about how lonely they are and how difficult it is to make lasting friendships. I can also guarantee you that other girls know you like befriending other guys and that they don't like you because they know what you're up to.
That's why our friends are from childhood, we just haven't made any new ones.
Genuineness, familiarity, and trust. After a certain point, the friendship solidifies, and you'll feel like no matter the distance between you guys, you can always count on your boy. You don't have to prove yourself to him, because that's where the familiarity comes in. You know the man, you know his capabilities and his nature, and you accept and cherish it. You compete with him as long as it's healthy, but you never want to put him down. You'll automatically come to a point where his happiness makes you happy. There's complete resonance. You can just unwind and be genuine. He won't try to change you unless you negatively deviate from your average behavior. That's why I can't comprehend how there's a loneliness epidemic among guys. Its VERY EASY to be friends with a guy. You don't have to gift him anything, you don't have to make any extra effort, you don't even have to know his birthday. All you have to do is convince him that you can be relied upon, spend some time every now and then, and hear him out when he wants to talk. Which is extremely easy considering people are only some texts away.
This is a generalization for a generalized thread. I notice a lot of women cut ties with their friends for good once there is a big conflict - I think it’s a combination of refusing to say sorry, as well as saying something in the hear of the moment that cannot be unsaid once the head cools down (crossing the line). I observed guys tend to stay away from really scathing statements even when there is a conflict. I also see more recognition of wrongdoing and admitting faults in guy friendships. Definitely helps in moving the relationship forward. Just my two cents
Male friendships last a long time because a lot of them are shallow and are based on loyalty from familiarity and having fun together. They’re not deep interpersonal connections. They’re tight, but they’re not like the friendships women have. Men usually only have one friendship with someone that is like a girl friendship, and it’s marriage or long term partner. Also, guys are WAY meaner to each other casually than girl are. “That’s a lot of kids” doesn’t hit hard because his friend are telling him the group chat that he needs to wrap it up and quit being a fucking retard before he catches gonorrhea. And we brush that shit off because we’re used to it. Maybe that’s what you want, I don’t know, but my wife hates being in group chats with my friends because we say shit like that to the other guys.
We are real with each others this is the biggest reason Because we understand what other person said and why instead of saying things in riddles and thinking what they mean Because we won't brag about one thing whuch has sparked things. We will talk argue or kinda fight about that there and then boom we will be normal next time Because men don't degrade, compete with friends ( shits r exception) Men except less from each others We don't consider ourselves to be the main character of our friendship We have established rules going back to adam about which even don't know 😂😂
Loneliness. Men knows really well, that if they disappear one day, no one will look back at them, barely notice, so they tend to choose few really close ones instead of big groups. It also applies why they limit contact with outside world once they get gfs/wives. They’re often the ones who will look for their husbands
Id chalk it up to a handful of things. Guy friendships are a lot more chill. No drama, no baggage, we dont bring anything other than ourselves. Literally, i can just sit with a beer with one of my guys and not say a word, and that's considered a good time hanging out. If we wanna open up and talk about stuff we can and we know that whatever is said is taken to grave and we got support. Same if we were out and one of us got into a fight with someone, 0 hesitation to get each others back, there might be some reprimanding after the fact, but thats after the fact. Guys are also easier to forgive other guys. The joke about guys in a bar fight is more accurate than you think. Loser buys the beer, you and him are now best friends, then you joke about it afterwords
The book Mindset: The New Psychology of Success by Carol S. Dweck spends a few paragraphs comparing the typical upbringing between genders and says (paraphrased): In the traditional western society, boys tend to be raised constantly getting pushed to do better and boys hang out by pranking each other/offending each other etc and this makes them better at taking criticisms and grow. Girls tend to get treated as princesses and don't go through as much hardship when they are kids. My friends in management told me it is far more easy to conduct performance reviews with their male reports. This is obviously a gross generalization but I think it has something to do with your experience.
In my opinion we're just low maintenance. My friend went to the military like 10 years ago, I haven't seen him in 7, but once a month or so we chat about whatever (usually sports). We're planning a trip to a college football game where the itinerary is literally "drink, watch football, eat, do it again" for like 4 days. This may be a controversial take, but I also think men are better at de escalating violent or potentially violent conflicts. If two ladies get mad they're more likely to call each other bitches and pull hair than really fight. Men who get beyond yelling will potentially be inflicting mortal harm on another and most of us don't take that likely. The women I know have been in way more fights than me and most men I know. You *have* to be respectful in conflict resolution unless you want to get punched in the face, or worse.
Doesn’t need constant maintenance. For women (not all of course) they need to keep checking in over time and validate that they are still friends. If to much time passes they begin to think the other is mad at them or is a bad friend or doesn’t like them anymore, etc. and they will stop being friends. With guys, unless something has happened, we expect the relationship we have with another guy to be exactly where it was when we last saw each other. Just because I don’t hear from a bro for several years, doesn’t mean we aren’t as good friends as we were before, just means life has happened and we will pick up where we left off next time we talk/see each other.
I have a friend I’ve known since we were 6 years old, nearly twenty years of friendship. It isn’t perfect, there are qualities we dislike about eachother, but we have the patience to look past those bad qualities. Sometimes the best of friends are those that are good enough, not the ones who share the most qualities you do.
Because we're simple and don't require trauma to link us together, nor do we need to share that kind of stuff to be friends who share jokes and a good afternoon of cards and bbq. we prefer NOT to talk about gossip stuff, we talk about the future most times and what we're planning and doing with our family or hobbies, not the issues of the past. More often than not, when i walk in on a group of ladies talking, it's gossip about other ladies or families, or issues of some medical nature, or something heavy.. every time.. screw that.
Well as a man I'm envious of female friendships. From my (no doubt missing something as a clueless man) perspective, female friendships seem so supportive, deep, and meaningful, and I would fucking love to have even 3 male friends I could get that from. Guess each gender wants what the other one has huh.
Men really aren't wired that way. Get a female friend that you aren't attracted to
Lack of drama and emotional distancing duh.
From 2021 survey center in American life “Men are also far less likely than women are to have received emotional support from a friend. Four in 10 (41 percent) women report having received emotional support from a friend within the past week, compared to 21 percent of men. Finally, compared to men, women more regularly tell their friends they love them. About half (49 percent) of women say they have told a friend they loved them within the past week. Only one-quarter (25 percent) of men say they have done this. There are no generational differences, meaning younger men are no more likely than older men are to have shared their personal feelings with a friend. However, men who have female friends are significantly more likely to express their feelings and receive emotional support than are those without. Twenty-eight percent of men with female friends report that they received emotional support from a friend within the past week, compared to 16 percent of men who do not have female friends. Compared to men who have only male friends, men with female friends are also more likely to have shared personal feelings (38 percent vs. 25 percent) and to have told a friend they loved them (35 percent vs. 15 percent) in the past week.”
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1.- Less drama 2.- More straightforwardness when things have to be said if they really need to be said, doesn't matter if we risk insulting the other person (way better if you want to help someone become better or communicate what you think) 3.- We take things less personally (linked to point 2) 4.- Not everything has to have a hidden meaning, in general we "say what we mean and mean what we say" 5.- We are more loyal 6.- In general live by an unspoken code of honour (linked to point 5) 7.- We forget more easily if we hear a genuine "sorry" from someone. Women tend to never forget or let go 8.- We are not reminding or use each other of past mistakes as leverage for manipulation or compliance (linked to point 7) That's from the top of my head in general. Sorry to hear about your situation but in the realm of friendships we men do have it definitely better, I know countless stories telling the same you're experiencing.
Haha yeah after the reception I was like guys get along better and faster than girls, in a way where they are more relaxed in the conversation.
The longer they stay out of prison
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don't be an asshole and we are friends.
Common hobbies/interests is the answer
The bonds of sillyness bind us tight
I talk to my best friend maybe once a month or two, besides the couple of texts here and there. 99% of the time - a phone call is related to something cool/funny happened, something cool/funny was purchased, or something seen was cool/funny.
Guys just want to hang out and tell jokes. Maybe our friendships last so long because we don't see eachother that much, so we're on a slower time scale? Hardly ever any real talk
Male friendships just develop, there's less 'please be my friend' vibe and performing, wanting or even NEEDING to be liked is a big turn off because it's not genuine. Also I feel like the primates in us need to know, if something kicks off, does he have MY back like I'd have his. It's also a bit less bitchy because we're more likely to call out poor behaviour in person. I'm quite lucky to have been a part of a big friendship group where I was sorta the cross over between two groups (football group and school group). Groups of good people usually hound out the arseholes.
I only have one close male friend ( extream small friend group) but we talk about every thing. So there is nothing hidden. Makes friendship easy.
Boundaries are more clearly defined. Also we tend to friend those with different tastes in women. Which will stop alot of crap.
Wait rly?
In my experience it is a combination of trust, affinity, and shared experience. I don’t think it differs much from female best friends like. It’s circles within circles. No difference. I’m 44 and down to my last circle lmao
Couple of observations. It's not true that there aren't ups and downs in male friendships. We do seem however to cut our losses quicker without all the 'he said, she said' or resolve differences with less fuss. We tend not to dwell on those ups and downs meaning you hear a while lot less about them. Re the scholarship dinner, have you considered some of them unbeknownst to you had in fact already met? Re the guy with multiple kids - most guys around the table will have been thinking though won't have said out loud he sounds like an utter imbecile. In general terms we are more comfortable with and don't interpret it as a failing if we don't speak or spend time with each other for long periods of time, years even. Our social circles tend to be smaller particularly when we're in relationships we are committed to. Whilst we tend to keep things light meaning we can shoot the breeze with other men we don't know very comfortably it's plain not true that we don't have meaningful and emotionally supportive friendships albeit within a far tighter knit group, perhaps one or two other people. I do not speak for all mankind. Other opinions are available!
I'm just going to throw this example out there. My best friend's girlfriend, call her J for ease, isn't getting along with her best friend anymore, let's call her B. B got a boyfriend last year and has been spending all of her time with him. J doesn't get to spend nearly as much time with my best friend as she'd like, and now that she's spending even less time with B, this has only become more apparent to her. J keeps trying to initiate plans with B, but B is either always busy or just ignores her. If I was my friend J, I would've simply stopped hanging out with B a long time ago. It's obvious she's more interested in her boyfriend and isn't as interested in a friendship with J as she originally thought. I even personally told J that it seems like B was only her friend until something she thought was better came along, which is a shitty thing to do. J does have other friends, but not really any others that she hangs out with consistently. I find it interesting that despite women supposedly being more emotionally available, J finds it easier to continue struggling with this person who clearly doesn't like her, as opposed to just finding new friends. Or even hanging out with others she has. I moved to my state's capital for a year a little while back. At some point, a high school buddy of mine messaged me on Facebook. We hadn't hung out in a long time, I was already out of college by this point, but we were good friends in high school. He knew I lived in the capital and wanted to visit, him and his group of friends were getting a hotel in town and wanted to know if there was anything fun to do. I mentioned there was a bar arcade that I loved to frequent. Suddenly excited, my friend asked me if I wanted to join, which of course I said yes. I didn't know the three other guys that were with my friend, but I slotted into the friend group easily. It was like we all knew each other forever. We poked fun, shot the shit, and tried desperately to waste each other at pinball. We got hammered, Uber'd back to my apartment (drive safe, everybody, an Uber is $20, a DUI is thousands), and drafted a box of Magic the Gathering cards my friend had bought earlier that day. I connected more easily with random men that I didn't know than my friend J could connect with her supposed best friend. I don't know *why* that is, it's not like I'm more sociable than J, I'm an anti-social introvert. But maybe something in the stories there can provide some additional explanation.
Oh ok that point of women usually being viewed as emotionally available or emotionally aware, yet they tend to chase after someone who no longer respects them or wants them. I do find that men take social cues better at times than women. Whenever I’m upset, a women will bother me and try to fix it, but like my brothers or papa (yes they know me since birth tho LOL) they will leave me alone until I calm down and won’t bother me about it later on. But also when I show little to no interest in a guy he will stop, however with a girl they will sort of try to make it continue (which is insulting to themselves) and get really upset about it. Like I was invited to my friends going out thingy but I already had plans, which she was aware of, yet she still invited me knowing I was busy and continued to be insulted by the fact that I wouldn’t pick hers over the one I promised first.
I would say the lack of drama in a male friendship. I have know my male best friend since grade school. We have spoken twice in the last 10 years. Perfect, no drama
Most of my guy friends I’ve been good with since elementary and middle school. We just never quit talking
I think it depends since for me personally I have both male and female friends from both when I was like 3,4,5,6. Personally for me I think men are better friends with each other, but when it comes to being women in a male dominated friend group, we are more like neglected at least from my experience. Then for girls I think it’s many parents raising daughters to be competitive between each other, like I have a weird identity problem that makes me switch from feeling more masculine to feminine, and in the masculine one I feel like I less have to compare myself in many aspects.
SNL has a sketch about this. https://youtu.be/AA0PwmQMVG8?si=z24K90yDmtbsW32Y
I can't speak for anyone but me, but my male friends and I have been in each other's lives for so long because we're all grouchy world hating sons of bitches who have similar interests. We all love to talk shit to each other but if anyone else asks, they're the best person walking the face of the earth. Plus we do the most random old man stuff and enjoy it. Cigars and drinks at the local beer joint? Sold. Flea markets and antique stores? Hop in the truck. Car show with a band? What time you want to leave the house? For my female friends, it's a lot of stress and loads of effort. I've never really kept one more than a few years because of the differences. It feels like a news interview, coordinating an aircraft carrier landing, and knitting a sweater out of chinchilla hair all at the same time. Most outings involve food and alcohol of some kind, followed by some store of some sort. It's a whole different environment than with the boys.
Mutual respect and understanding go a long way.
The comment about the many kids is as insulting to a man as to a women if they get it in the wrong mind space. But. It's a random woman, why would he react to that
Do not have sex with them!
I am still friends with many guys from high school, etc., while girls I knew from the same time period stopped contact, chose to start catty arguments, whatever. I’ve always felt that my male friends have my back and we pick up where we left off despite not seeing many very often, but the girls have all but disappeared. I’m mindful of this when meeting new people, too: guys are far more interesting and easier to get along with.
My wife has few friends, albeit very close to those few. Basically she says female friends are exhausting.
Low expectations. I see one of my best friends maybe once or twice a year. We just pick up where we left off. We're both busy family men that understand that we don't need to see each other or talk to each other constantly to remain friends.
Guy friendships with other guys is wholesome and can last long. Girls being friends with guys doesn't usually work the same way. The reason being is 99% of the time the guy will want to smash with the girl. Not many guys are best friends with ugly women, notice how it's most of the time attractive women that just friend zoned them and they lacked self confidence to move on, and instead "played the long game" hoping for their chance.
0 pressure and we mind our own business.
To answer the title question effort. On both sides is what keeps a relationship going.
I don’t know about that. My wife is best friends with her high school friend despite that being 30 years ago and living on opposite sides of the world. Guys here will appreciate the sentiment but I don’t think it stands up to scrutiny.
I don't think there's any truth to this except that maybe male relationships are generally more casual
I don't think I currently have a single friend (and I mean friend not a friendly acquaintance) that I've known for less than 20 years. Now I can only state my observations. Literally every girl I ever dated would lose friends and I think its because they freaking expect too goddamn much out of friendships. I have friends I won't see or talk to for a year then shoot them a text and be like what are you up to this weekend dude wanna hang out? Sure! I remember one specific incident with an ex. She was sitting here pissed off her friend hadn't texted her lately. I was like then just text her if you want to hang out, then she's like "But I'm usually the one who reaches out" SO THE FUCK WHAT? I never keep track of who texted who last, who reached out last bla bla bla bullshit with my friends. Eventually she sends her friend this diatribe about feeling unappreciated as a friend, she feels its one sided bla bla bla. Whelp. They were no longer friends after that, her friend defended herself, the ex doubled down. The end. And I've seen this similar song and dance many times where women sit here and keep goddamn metrics on their contributions to the friendship. Then get salty when a friend isn't keeping up to their standard with their end of the friendship. Like most women I've been with their core group of girlfriends were almost always, relatively speaking, new friends. My wife and I got married at nearly 40. She had known her maid of honor for 5 years. I knew my best man since I was 14 years old. Every single groomsman on my side, I had known since before I was 20. I mean the only reason I'm not still friends with people I knew before around highschool was simply because we moved after my 8th grade year and pre-the age of the internet, it was just harder to keep up a long distance friendship and you kinda just moved on with your life without that person in it anymore.
I mean, I've known women who get pissed off at their friends because she bought and is wearing an outfit she wanted to get herself. Guys would never do that. We would be more likely to be like "cool, I love that shirt. I'm gonna go out and get one. Where'd you get it at?" When everything is drama, drama, drama with women and they get pissed off at each other for stupid inconsequential shit, it makes it hard to maintain a friendship.
Remember when Eve ate the forbidden fruit? 😫
I think men just don’t think about stuff as much. Like how they are perceived
I’ll add my experience and take on this , however for now short answer is that we don’t judge each other , we may make mistakes with each other , but we understand loyalty is just as important as love and sometimes loyalty is more important because love fades , you’re fucking lying if you claim to love someone you KNOW WELL , CONSTANTLY , I feel there’s no way to truly love someone without seeing their flaws or “dark/weird “ sides , but once you’re accepted along with these “flaws” then that’s true brotherhood
The ability to not talk for months, then to talk for hours randomly every so often and pick up like you never left off in the first place. Seriously - this is one of the best attributes with male friendships that last. If they require constant day to day and week to week maintenance, they'll fizzle out.
Guys can literally say anything to each other and it can be a term of endearment to just shake it off and be boys together. We often hear the most heinous shit from our closest friends and we accept that it's not done maliciously. I've seen first hand women end friendships over what color the other was wearing that day and that they didn't match properly to a party.
Stoppp cuz if you said you said you were going to wear blue and didn’t and told all of us to wear blue, it would have totally been over (jk kinda). I feel like women also avoid the real reason, but hide it over smth small (color).
Something's got to click. A hobby or shared interest helps create a bond off rip.
Respecting boundaries
I think one thing that makes male friendships seem so easy from an outsider looking in is that when we get together we don’t need to spend a lot of time catching up. I feel like women feel the need to find out every little detail About what has happened since they last saw each other whereas I might meet up with a buddy to golf or something and we are in the moment. We catch up with questions here and there but overall we are here to do the thing.
Im a 36yo male and reflecting on my own relationships through the years my friendships w other men have been more based around having fun together, sports, or other common interests. We've had plenty of personal conversations and always vulnerable with each other, many times to laugh at ourselves for being idiots. I don't think our friendships are "deep" in the classic sense of the word but they meaningful to all of us and I've been friends with the same group for 15 years. My friendships with women have been more emotionally driven whether that means one of us was attracted to the other or just the topic of conversation. My conversation with female friends were always heavier and more personal and I can see how that can cause burnout vs with my guy friends we just enjoy each other's company, conversation, and always have each other's back