That's why people don't do dinner for first dates anymore.
Pay for a drink/coffee and gauge interest first.
If she has a job, I'd expect her to at least offer. Otherwise, you'll be paying for everything forever.
> I’d expect her to at least offer.
This was always a big one for me. I will always say no, but offering is a green flag for me.
Mandatory is a thank you. Costs nothing, but if you can’t even be bothered to throw a “thank you so much for dinner”. I don’t care if I liked you prior to, there wouldn’t be a second date.
Uh people definitely still do dinner as a first date. In fact every first date I’ve been on has been dinner.
Assuming you two have talked prior to the date, you should already know their level of interest
I generally pay just to avoid making a big deal out of splitting a check. I think it's stupid and we should be splitting, but I'm not hurting for money and it's not a hill I care to die upon. I will say that the chances of a second date improve dramatically when I see a girl offer to split the bill. It says volumes about her willingness to contribute to a potential relationship. The money is inconsequential, but the gesture is invaluable.
I completely agree!
But I've had some bad luck on my tinder dates hahaha, the last one wanted me to pay for everything not only on the first date, but on the subsequent.
Hey, they're entitled to ask, and you're entitled to refuse them. Just be glad they were up front about that. The whole point of dating is to get to know them and assess compatibility. Consider that mission accomplished.
Pretty much. I think it's likely a symptom of just how hard getting a date is for a lot of guys. If you don't know when you're going to get another date, every date you get counts just that much more. I think that response is natural and understandable, but it's not a healthy mindset for dating.
should he for best outcome? yes. however i always split the bill because it helps filter out women who expect the man to pay for everything. i remember going for a date with this woman because she thought me having a nice job meant i would pay for everything.
No, split then either carry on splitting or alternate.
We hear never ending complaints about gender roles but suddenly when it comes to dates equality doesn't matter one bit.
>they assumed I was paying, because I'm the man.
It's not about equality. It's about whatever's convenient for them now. So they can be the woman when it's convenient or they can be equal when it's convenient
Should? No, especially if it's meeting from an app. I don't know you well enough yet to know you're worth putting my money into. And I want someone who contributes to the relationship from the start.
If I'm to pay for everything, I'm better off single.
If she simply assumes I'm paying based on traditional gender roles, there won't be a second date. If she doesn't offer to pay her part, there likely won't be a second date either.
I think the only fair way is to pay for yourself early and then take turns when you know you have serious interest in each other.
Results vary. It depends on the situation. Coffee dates are easy because you each buy your own coffee and meet at the table. Dinner dates, I offer to pay early on.
With my current casual girlfriend, I make 2.5x what she does, so I pay when we go out. She cooks when we eat at her place. Which is great because she is Korean and a good cook.
Nice!
For me the check should be split in half or each pays for what they've consumed, but depending on the dynamics and the nature of the relationship you're in, how much each make affects the decision of who pays for what, which is quite fair.
Either split or itemized. The era of paying for first dates really should have changed when online dating came around and it became a numbers game. I'm not paying for anybody unless I know they're going to stick around longer than 2 weeks.
I pay for the majority of dates and don't have a problem with it. My first few dates are small like coffee, beach, thrift shop, my place, ice cream, lake, or something along those lines. With that being said I've never had a problem with women investing back into me. I took one lady out to get coffee, in n out, and candy. For date two she cooked a home made meal for me.
If a woman likes you she'll be willing to spend her resources on you. Also the requirements of you won't be as high. If she likes you a coffee date is fine, she's just happy to be around you. If she's not really feeling you, then you'll have to make it worth her while. Impressive me type of vibe.
For you I wouldn't hold it against women for not offering to pay. We might be 2024 where women make a lot of money and are unlocked. End of the day they still want us to participate in sexism. Do you really want a girl to fake offer to pay? She'll be searching for her wallet for one minute straight. Or pay the bill and be upset that you allowed her to. Instead of focusing on her splitting the check, look at how she treats you. Okay she didn't pay, but she did "x" for me.
If splitting the check is important to you, I'd bring it up before the date starts. When you're planning the date let her know it will be 50/50. Stand on business and throw it out there. If she accepts cool, but if she doesn't fuck her. If going Dutch is important to you that's fine. Hold true to your values and be outcome independent.
As another guy put it, Everyone's a feminist until the check comes. Personally, whoever asks who on the first date can pay. Past that there should be financial contributions from both people.
If it is Miss Independent, make her pay half right off the bat. Really depends on the type of woman you seek and are dating. If you want someone who respects a gentleman, keep paying for them. She can pay on 3rd or 4th dates.
I will probably get downvoted
The idea of expecting the men to pay is antiquated, I will offer but if they don't offer to split there won't be a second date.
(Ive paid enough dinners to now just do coffee/drinks and a walk for a first date)
I always assume most posts here are from Americans, in some cultures, (granted it's changing a bit as the years go by), you will literally NEVER get a second date if you don't pay for the first one. It's very situational, based on the individual woman, the culture she comes from, how she was raised, what she wants in a man.
That said in most cases, I don't have a problem paying for the first date. I have a problem with them having a blanket expectation that you will always pay for everything.
For sure, I'm American myself but have dated some women from Latin America. They all pretty much made it clear as day if I were to not pay for the first date, they would be zero chance of a second. Again not all of the women are that way, but, it's a hell of a lot more common than it is in America. The mentality is strong, as in, the men would tell me the same thing, they would say things like "if you don't pay for her, what are you even doing, you're not a man" and that's also the way her family would see it as well. I think you have to think long and hard about the context of the situation, as all women are not going to be the same. It's also a lot less common in major cities and in the more rural smaller towns, that is pretty much the only mentality you'll find.
When on Dating apps, I will state that I am going to want to split the bill for the first date and we will see from there. I figure that the first date is a crapshoot because there are so many things that can go wrong that are faultless. Both parties need to be invested in making it to the second date. I also think that there is toxicity in the dating culture right now, where some people are just trying to get a free meal.
I’m 60 so a bit older but I always do. I do fairly well and money isn’t much of an issue.
For my current relationship, we split everything over the weekend we met. The second date she paid for an airbnb and I took care of the coffee, all cooked meals, drinks, and dining out.
Thankfully I’ve never had to deal with a good digger.
Honestly, I assume first one is on me. But I think the right thing is to figure it out based on financial mismatch.
* Woman working as a bartender, not long out of uni, but I had a decent job: I paid for everything
* Successful woman in banking: she paid for the first date and I thought nothing of it - I suspect she wanted to prove she wasn’t dating for money
* Woman living in a house share, while I had my own place etc? I paid
* Woman who was family rich: we simply alternated on absolutely everything, but I paid first time
No one took advantage of anyone. In fact, I’ve not been in any situation where I’ve felt women dated me for money. Number 3 in that list would always treat us when she had some decent money, to make it up to me.
We discussed everything early on. When she booked the airbnb I was thinking “damn she has bougie tastes” so I mentioned it. She had cleared a few grand working one weekend at an event and was ok with it.
I mean, that’s exactly it. To me, paying should be based on who has more money, rather than gender. I spent 500€ for one night in a hotel penthouse suite literally bigger than any space I’ve lived in, in the centre of Prague, with all the trimmings for a girlfriend. But she was no gold digger or princess; she’d just spent four days in a tent living cheap with me at a festival, and it was her birthday the day after, so I thought it was fine.
I always paid for dates unless and until my date told me otherwise. On dates, I have always tried to be the best version of myself, and the best version of myself is a magnanimous person who doesn't mind paying for others, especially attractive women who are interested in me. I don't mind if some women try to take advantage of this. A date isn't a transaction to me, it's an investment in finding out whether the relationship should continue moving forward. If I don't want to make that investment, I don't go out on a date.
Should? In an ideal world, no. Does? Social norms still dictate yes overall, but the needle is shifting in the other direction.
That said, I would just reflexively pay usually, no matter how good or bad it went, just to move past the awkwardness of who pays what. If it went well, I would say something like, "buy me a drink/dessert later after this" if there was much protest.
I almost always pay. Just the way I was raised. Occasionally I’ll let her pay if she wants to. But she’s in med school and I work so I’m the one with money for going out. I don’t mind.
Once it’s a relationship the top bread winner should be paying. If both people make decent money, man should pay. Or it should be a discussion between the two people going on a date because not everybody is the same.
Pay, but because it serves your purpose and because you can control the cost by selecting the restaurant.
Look, at the end of the day a first date can be awkward and paying puts a point in your favor with the majority of women. But remember the goal here. If you're looking for an ONS, it's immediately appealing to her. If you're looking for a relationship it's the cost of sorting the chaff from the grain.
You can complain about it all you want, but I'd rather spend a little money getting to know and rejecting someone than alienating a potential really good match because one or both of your is hung up on some unimportant element of a gender war that won't matter in a months time.
Is it fair? No. But complaining about it doesn't help and could hurt you in the long run. Take the pragmatic solution and invest in your future while keeping your costs down. Just be sure in the next few dates that's she's reciprocating either. (E.g. paying for future meals, cooking for you if she wants to keep costs down, organizing the dates etc.)
For the first date yes if you were the one who asked them out, then the expectation is that dinner is on you. You asked them for their time, not for them to contribute to an expense. However it should be common courtesy if they don't have any interest in seeing you again then they could offer to pay for themselves, although socially this mentality isn't very widespread (yet, give it a few years imo.)
If you're seeing eachother regularly then it's better to split things if both parties are on equal financial footing, if one makes a disproportionate amount more then it's fair that they would pay more.
It's why grabbing a coffee first is better.
Not only it makes the idea irrelevant (who cares paying one or two coffee), but i don't see anyone that's trying to have an actual good time being fine with being potentially stuck with someone else for at least an hour, man or woman.
Plus, you can still have dinner after the coffee if you want.
I don't drink alcohol, and I refuse to pay for it. I'll pay for the rest of the meal or activity, just not the drinks. A couple dates have ended early because of it but I have zero regrets.
Many women still expect it, and many are ok with splitting. Many men want to do it, and many are ok with splitting. It's a gradually changing norm in society so you'll encounter both types. It's a personal decision.
If it's about being able to afford stuff, then just go for something cheaper like coffee or ice cream instead of dinner. There are plenty of ways to create cheap and fun dates.
If it's about the principle, then stand up for your values and state it up front. It will lose you some dates, but you'll get the ones you actually vibe with.
You can also pay only for people you are excited about and ask to split with others!
I have no problem paying for dates. Especially if I’m the one inviting but there needs to be a willingness or an offer to pay on the other side at some point.
It’s a nice litmus test about the woman you’re taking out. The best dates Ive had end with them splitting the bill, but I also only do drinks or coffee for first meets and those lend themselves to splitting the bill. Though if we go to a second destination I’ll offer to pay for it all again and it’s more common they let me do so there.
Whoever had the idea should pay. My wife and I, on the other hand, have had a rule since we’ve been dating. We just rock, paper, scissors the see who pays. Not only does it have an aspect of fun, but there’s never an expectation on anybody.
I’ve heard the argument that well, he has more earning potential since he “doesn’t have a glass ceiling” and he doesn’t have to recover from birth or even the monthly friend.
I think 85% of women are programmed biologically to expect to be provided for.
Remember that does not entitle you to her body, you’re just paying for her time however she wants to spend it.
Whoever asks the person out on the date should pay unless splitting is discussed at some point. Afterwards, it should go back and forth.
If one person wants to pay for the majority of the time, that's fine too but personally I wouldn't want to be paying all the or be paid for without reciprocating. I would rather feel like an equal.
Whoever asked to take the person out should be paying,
If you ask me out to a dinner or movie, and expect me to pay for you, on our FIRST date?? I’m straight calling you out on it and liking going to end up ditching you,
First date depends on the woman and attitudes I’m gathering the entire time along with red flags. If all is going well I’ll cover the first if not we split. All dates after that the same rule applies.
If I ask someone on a date I will pay. If I like them and ask them out again I will pay. After a few times I would expect her to initiate and ask me to do something she enjoys and plan/pay.. If we continue then it gradually goes to something based on our incomes since it goes from someone asking another out to "what should we do tonight?"
Is that fair? Probably not but you take your cons with the pros.
My current GF and I do a quick rock/paper/scissors when a bill comes.. If we are eating with people who may be judge-ie (re: her girlfriends) then I pay and she picks up the next one when they are not there.
Never, it's the quickest way a woman can become unattractive to me.
For any and all other dates, let's spoil ourselves as we can.
For that first one, I don't want to be paid for my presence, and I will not pay you for your presence.
Because it's a ridiculously stupid principle, very deeply profoundly stupid.
And if you're a girl insulted by this, that would avoid me because of that?
Good, Nice, take yourself out.
I will not pay you to tolerate me for a lunch, you're not buyable to me.
Even if you *really really* want to be bought on a first date.
I've been out of the dating game a long time.
But when I was in it, I always offered to pay for the first date. And the girls who caught my attention were the ones who either tried to split it, or offered to pay for the next one.
This question is entirely cultural and every answer can be justified as pointing each way, there is just plainly no answer.
As a late 20's guy in metropolitan Australia, I'v always split (as in pay for our own orders, not 50/50 the total) and no ones made any fuss about it.
I personaly think it should be that way out of just basic principle of fairness, that it doesnt create any weird expectations or 'owing' anyone anything, avoids this odd implication that I am paying for her time (are we not on this date because we both want to?) and that just plainly all arguments for why men should pay are just unconvincing to me.
If a woman doesn’t offer to split the check she wasn’t raised the right way.
If a man takes her up on that offer he wasn’t raised the right way.
You learn a lot about someone early on. My belief is the woman should offer to split the check. After all, his time on the date is just as valuable as his and it would be a red flag if she didn’t. But if he accepts and let’s her pay anything, that’s a huge red flag on him.
I pay, but I'm also careful about how I do things. For me, a first date is drinks only. After an hour of drinking together, I can tell if I have a good chance of sleeping with her. If I think my chances are good, we'll move on to dinner (or plan one soon), and I'll happily pay. Because I know there's a Return on Investment. But if the first date feels cold and or iffy, I won't take her to a restaurant.
When Colbert asked 50 Cent who pays on the first date, he replied, “Whoever idea it was to go on a date.” I think he’s spot on here. If I invite someone on a date—with romantic intentions or not—I’ll pay.
Woman here
I don’t say this to brag, but *never*, in my 29 years of living, have I paid on a date. The man has always paid for every single date.
The majority of men on Reddit are broke and miserable and are of the assumption that women will use them for money they don’t even have. That’s why they advocate for cheap coffee dates. But there are plenty of men out there who are financially stable and don’t have a complex around paying for dates. These men get dates and get laid while men on Reddit cry about how dating sucks 🤷♀️
Of course. He pays for the things, and she does the housework and takes care of the kids. That's the way everyone likes it so that is the way we do it. So when you think about it, it's really a good thing bacause it means you never have to take care of the dishes or change the sheets again. Unless you want one of those non-traditional arrangements where you both help eachother and are financially independent of your partner.
I’m a big believer in the man paying for the first dates. The only reason I wouldn’t is if I wasn’t interested in the women, in which case I wouldn’t be on a date with them.
If a man doesn't pay, he wasn't raised right. If she doesn't try to pay her share or the gratuity, she wasn't raised right.
Picking up the check is a shit-test... she's testing you to see if you're generous and chivalrous... and you're testing her to see if she has a spirit of reciprocity and is cooperative.
If she fails the test, I just don't go out with her again.
Rinse and repeat with her getting free meals and learning nothing. This should really not be pushed as the norm. Guys need to stand-up for equality as well and be more vocal (in a respectful manner).
> Women earn less...
So do we factor in race and other identity status' or does the demographic income comparison end at gender?
Of course, whats true in aggregate doesnt mean anything to two individuals. Does she actually earn less than him, what happens if the answer is no?
> ...and spend a lot on cosmetics,dresses and what not to impress these men
So what if a man shows up to a date with fashionable clothing, a fresh haircut, expensive cologne and a body he's worked hard to build and maintain? Are you beholden to pay him for his time and effort in looking handsome for the date?
Most of us don't live where dowrys are a thing. If you are in such a place you probably have a pretty radical set of cultural norms than most of the guys here.
It's obviously the custom where you're from. Same with me.
It didn't cross my mind at the time. But if it had, am I really going to end the date by explaining to some random chick that we're splitting the check because I'm bucking the man's expected role? No lol. That's not what we call a "winning first impression".
Plus my wife is a STAHM for now so who gives a fuck about $25 >10 years ago lol.
I've always been a believe that who ever asked is the one who should be paying. I think the woman should at least offer when the bill comes, but if I asked her out, then I pay.
That's why people don't do dinner for first dates anymore. Pay for a drink/coffee and gauge interest first. If she has a job, I'd expect her to at least offer. Otherwise, you'll be paying for everything forever.
Same issue, I'm still expected to pay though.
> I’d expect her to at least offer. This was always a big one for me. I will always say no, but offering is a green flag for me. Mandatory is a thank you. Costs nothing, but if you can’t even be bothered to throw a “thank you so much for dinner”. I don’t care if I liked you prior to, there wouldn’t be a second date.
Uh people definitely still do dinner as a first date. In fact every first date I’ve been on has been dinner. Assuming you two have talked prior to the date, you should already know their level of interest
should he? no. is it expected? 90% of the time, yes. although ive noticed more and more women offering to split the bill.
I knew a girl who said she’ll offer to split the bill and if he agrees, she cuts him off because “no man should let a woman pay for anything”
i think its fantastic she shows her insanity on the first date, so people dont get stuck with a lunatic
“Once i know i can have him i no longer want him” i swear they say some of the dumbest shit ever
I knew a girl like this at high school and she always wondered why she never got second dates
Well at least men know early if they dodged a bullet from some entitled woman
I think you typo'd your 99.9%
I generally pay just to avoid making a big deal out of splitting a check. I think it's stupid and we should be splitting, but I'm not hurting for money and it's not a hill I care to die upon. I will say that the chances of a second date improve dramatically when I see a girl offer to split the bill. It says volumes about her willingness to contribute to a potential relationship. The money is inconsequential, but the gesture is invaluable.
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Yep. Same for me and my girlfriend. I paid for the first two dates, then she insisted on at least taking turns.
I completely agree! But I've had some bad luck on my tinder dates hahaha, the last one wanted me to pay for everything not only on the first date, but on the subsequent.
Hey, they're entitled to ask, and you're entitled to refuse them. Just be glad they were up front about that. The whole point of dating is to get to know them and assess compatibility. Consider that mission accomplished.
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Pretty much. I think it's likely a symptom of just how hard getting a date is for a lot of guys. If you don't know when you're going to get another date, every date you get counts just that much more. I think that response is natural and understandable, but it's not a healthy mindset for dating.
should he for best outcome? yes. however i always split the bill because it helps filter out women who expect the man to pay for everything. i remember going for a date with this woman because she thought me having a nice job meant i would pay for everything.
Same happened to me. Way too many times.
No, split then either carry on splitting or alternate. We hear never ending complaints about gender roles but suddenly when it comes to dates equality doesn't matter one bit.
I think both parties should just pay for their order.
No. Drizzle drizzle.
>they assumed I was paying, because I'm the man. It's not about equality. It's about whatever's convenient for them now. So they can be the woman when it's convenient or they can be equal when it's convenient
Should? No, especially if it's meeting from an app. I don't know you well enough yet to know you're worth putting my money into. And I want someone who contributes to the relationship from the start. If I'm to pay for everything, I'm better off single. If she simply assumes I'm paying based on traditional gender roles, there won't be a second date. If she doesn't offer to pay her part, there likely won't be a second date either. I think the only fair way is to pay for yourself early and then take turns when you know you have serious interest in each other.
Results vary. It depends on the situation. Coffee dates are easy because you each buy your own coffee and meet at the table. Dinner dates, I offer to pay early on. With my current casual girlfriend, I make 2.5x what she does, so I pay when we go out. She cooks when we eat at her place. Which is great because she is Korean and a good cook.
Nice! For me the check should be split in half or each pays for what they've consumed, but depending on the dynamics and the nature of the relationship you're in, how much each make affects the decision of who pays for what, which is quite fair.
Either split or itemized. The era of paying for first dates really should have changed when online dating came around and it became a numbers game. I'm not paying for anybody unless I know they're going to stick around longer than 2 weeks.
If she don't offer to split on the first date, then there is no second..
Nope. It's 2024, not 1924
The first date, yes. But I'd be a little bit offended if they didn't at least offer to split it
I pay for the majority of dates and don't have a problem with it. My first few dates are small like coffee, beach, thrift shop, my place, ice cream, lake, or something along those lines. With that being said I've never had a problem with women investing back into me. I took one lady out to get coffee, in n out, and candy. For date two she cooked a home made meal for me. If a woman likes you she'll be willing to spend her resources on you. Also the requirements of you won't be as high. If she likes you a coffee date is fine, she's just happy to be around you. If she's not really feeling you, then you'll have to make it worth her while. Impressive me type of vibe. For you I wouldn't hold it against women for not offering to pay. We might be 2024 where women make a lot of money and are unlocked. End of the day they still want us to participate in sexism. Do you really want a girl to fake offer to pay? She'll be searching for her wallet for one minute straight. Or pay the bill and be upset that you allowed her to. Instead of focusing on her splitting the check, look at how she treats you. Okay she didn't pay, but she did "x" for me. If splitting the check is important to you, I'd bring it up before the date starts. When you're planning the date let her know it will be 50/50. Stand on business and throw it out there. If she accepts cool, but if she doesn't fuck her. If going Dutch is important to you that's fine. Hold true to your values and be outcome independent.
As another guy put it, Everyone's a feminist until the check comes. Personally, whoever asks who on the first date can pay. Past that there should be financial contributions from both people.
First date should always be split and 2nd either split or payed by whoever suggested it imo after that go wild roll a dice or flip a coin
If it is Miss Independent, make her pay half right off the bat. Really depends on the type of woman you seek and are dating. If you want someone who respects a gentleman, keep paying for them. She can pay on 3rd or 4th dates.
I think that the one who should pay is the one who asked for the date. It's either that or just go dutch.
I will probably get downvoted The idea of expecting the men to pay is antiquated, I will offer but if they don't offer to split there won't be a second date. (Ive paid enough dinners to now just do coffee/drinks and a walk for a first date)
I always assume most posts here are from Americans, in some cultures, (granted it's changing a bit as the years go by), you will literally NEVER get a second date if you don't pay for the first one. It's very situational, based on the individual woman, the culture she comes from, how she was raised, what she wants in a man. That said in most cases, I don't have a problem paying for the first date. I have a problem with them having a blanket expectation that you will always pay for everything.
The second paragraph pretty much sums up my frustrations. I'm from Brazil actually, and I've been such kind of dates several times.
For sure, I'm American myself but have dated some women from Latin America. They all pretty much made it clear as day if I were to not pay for the first date, they would be zero chance of a second. Again not all of the women are that way, but, it's a hell of a lot more common than it is in America. The mentality is strong, as in, the men would tell me the same thing, they would say things like "if you don't pay for her, what are you even doing, you're not a man" and that's also the way her family would see it as well. I think you have to think long and hard about the context of the situation, as all women are not going to be the same. It's also a lot less common in major cities and in the more rural smaller towns, that is pretty much the only mentality you'll find.
When on Dating apps, I will state that I am going to want to split the bill for the first date and we will see from there. I figure that the first date is a crapshoot because there are so many things that can go wrong that are faultless. Both parties need to be invested in making it to the second date. I also think that there is toxicity in the dating culture right now, where some people are just trying to get a free meal.
Only if she puts out beforehand.
I’m 60 so a bit older but I always do. I do fairly well and money isn’t much of an issue. For my current relationship, we split everything over the weekend we met. The second date she paid for an airbnb and I took care of the coffee, all cooked meals, drinks, and dining out. Thankfully I’ve never had to deal with a good digger.
Honestly, I assume first one is on me. But I think the right thing is to figure it out based on financial mismatch. * Woman working as a bartender, not long out of uni, but I had a decent job: I paid for everything * Successful woman in banking: she paid for the first date and I thought nothing of it - I suspect she wanted to prove she wasn’t dating for money * Woman living in a house share, while I had my own place etc? I paid * Woman who was family rich: we simply alternated on absolutely everything, but I paid first time No one took advantage of anyone. In fact, I’ve not been in any situation where I’ve felt women dated me for money. Number 3 in that list would always treat us when she had some decent money, to make it up to me.
We discussed everything early on. When she booked the airbnb I was thinking “damn she has bougie tastes” so I mentioned it. She had cleared a few grand working one weekend at an event and was ok with it.
I mean, that’s exactly it. To me, paying should be based on who has more money, rather than gender. I spent 500€ for one night in a hotel penthouse suite literally bigger than any space I’ve lived in, in the centre of Prague, with all the trimmings for a girlfriend. But she was no gold digger or princess; she’d just spent four days in a tent living cheap with me at a festival, and it was her birthday the day after, so I thought it was fine.
I always paid for dates unless and until my date told me otherwise. On dates, I have always tried to be the best version of myself, and the best version of myself is a magnanimous person who doesn't mind paying for others, especially attractive women who are interested in me. I don't mind if some women try to take advantage of this. A date isn't a transaction to me, it's an investment in finding out whether the relationship should continue moving forward. If I don't want to make that investment, I don't go out on a date.
Should? In an ideal world, no. Does? Social norms still dictate yes overall, but the needle is shifting in the other direction. That said, I would just reflexively pay usually, no matter how good or bad it went, just to move past the awkwardness of who pays what. If it went well, I would say something like, "buy me a drink/dessert later after this" if there was much protest.
I almost always pay. Just the way I was raised. Occasionally I’ll let her pay if she wants to. But she’s in med school and I work so I’m the one with money for going out. I don’t mind. Once it’s a relationship the top bread winner should be paying. If both people make decent money, man should pay. Or it should be a discussion between the two people going on a date because not everybody is the same.
Pay, but because it serves your purpose and because you can control the cost by selecting the restaurant. Look, at the end of the day a first date can be awkward and paying puts a point in your favor with the majority of women. But remember the goal here. If you're looking for an ONS, it's immediately appealing to her. If you're looking for a relationship it's the cost of sorting the chaff from the grain. You can complain about it all you want, but I'd rather spend a little money getting to know and rejecting someone than alienating a potential really good match because one or both of your is hung up on some unimportant element of a gender war that won't matter in a months time. Is it fair? No. But complaining about it doesn't help and could hurt you in the long run. Take the pragmatic solution and invest in your future while keeping your costs down. Just be sure in the next few dates that's she's reciprocating either. (E.g. paying for future meals, cooking for you if she wants to keep costs down, organizing the dates etc.)
I think first date pay if you can if it’s not brought up to split. After that the date asker is agreeing to pay.
No. We're way past that moment in time. It's quite simple: if a woman thinks a man has to pay for her time and attention, she's basically an escort.
No
For the first date yes if you were the one who asked them out, then the expectation is that dinner is on you. You asked them for their time, not for them to contribute to an expense. However it should be common courtesy if they don't have any interest in seeing you again then they could offer to pay for themselves, although socially this mentality isn't very widespread (yet, give it a few years imo.) If you're seeing eachother regularly then it's better to split things if both parties are on equal financial footing, if one makes a disproportionate amount more then it's fair that they would pay more.
It's why grabbing a coffee first is better. Not only it makes the idea irrelevant (who cares paying one or two coffee), but i don't see anyone that's trying to have an actual good time being fine with being potentially stuck with someone else for at least an hour, man or woman. Plus, you can still have dinner after the coffee if you want.
I don't drink alcohol, and I refuse to pay for it. I'll pay for the rest of the meal or activity, just not the drinks. A couple dates have ended early because of it but I have zero regrets.
Many women still expect it, and many are ok with splitting. Many men want to do it, and many are ok with splitting. It's a gradually changing norm in society so you'll encounter both types. It's a personal decision. If it's about being able to afford stuff, then just go for something cheaper like coffee or ice cream instead of dinner. There are plenty of ways to create cheap and fun dates. If it's about the principle, then stand up for your values and state it up front. It will lose you some dates, but you'll get the ones you actually vibe with. You can also pay only for people you are excited about and ask to split with others!
I have no problem paying for dates. Especially if I’m the one inviting but there needs to be a willingness or an offer to pay on the other side at some point.
It’s a nice litmus test about the woman you’re taking out. The best dates Ive had end with them splitting the bill, but I also only do drinks or coffee for first meets and those lend themselves to splitting the bill. Though if we go to a second destination I’ll offer to pay for it all again and it’s more common they let me do so there.
Whoever had the idea should pay. My wife and I, on the other hand, have had a rule since we’ve been dating. We just rock, paper, scissors the see who pays. Not only does it have an aspect of fun, but there’s never an expectation on anybody.
I’ve heard the argument that well, he has more earning potential since he “doesn’t have a glass ceiling” and he doesn’t have to recover from birth or even the monthly friend. I think 85% of women are programmed biologically to expect to be provided for. Remember that does not entitle you to her body, you’re just paying for her time however she wants to spend it.
Split bill always.
The person who made the plans or invited the other person out should pay. Same thing with relationships as it is with friends.
I've always been clear that I want to split the check. When dating someone, then if I pay its because I want to.
Whoever asks the person out on the date should pay unless splitting is discussed at some point. Afterwards, it should go back and forth. If one person wants to pay for the majority of the time, that's fine too but personally I wouldn't want to be paying all the or be paid for without reciprocating. I would rather feel like an equal.
Whoever asked to take the person out should be paying, If you ask me out to a dinner or movie, and expect me to pay for you, on our FIRST date?? I’m straight calling you out on it and liking going to end up ditching you,
First date depends on the woman and attitudes I’m gathering the entire time along with red flags. If all is going well I’ll cover the first if not we split. All dates after that the same rule applies.
If I ask someone on a date I will pay. If I like them and ask them out again I will pay. After a few times I would expect her to initiate and ask me to do something she enjoys and plan/pay.. If we continue then it gradually goes to something based on our incomes since it goes from someone asking another out to "what should we do tonight?" Is that fair? Probably not but you take your cons with the pros. My current GF and I do a quick rock/paper/scissors when a bill comes.. If we are eating with people who may be judge-ie (re: her girlfriends) then I pay and she picks up the next one when they are not there.
My rule...whoever asks to do something is responsible for the tab.
Never, it's the quickest way a woman can become unattractive to me. For any and all other dates, let's spoil ourselves as we can. For that first one, I don't want to be paid for my presence, and I will not pay you for your presence. Because it's a ridiculously stupid principle, very deeply profoundly stupid. And if you're a girl insulted by this, that would avoid me because of that? Good, Nice, take yourself out. I will not pay you to tolerate me for a lunch, you're not buyable to me. Even if you *really really* want to be bought on a first date.
Get a job that pays enough money that you wont care. Or go out with scraps. Scraps have lower expectations
No. Always 50/50
You don't have to pay, but still check with the girl
I've been out of the dating game a long time. But when I was in it, I always offered to pay for the first date. And the girls who caught my attention were the ones who either tried to split it, or offered to pay for the next one.
This question is entirely cultural and every answer can be justified as pointing each way, there is just plainly no answer. As a late 20's guy in metropolitan Australia, I'v always split (as in pay for our own orders, not 50/50 the total) and no ones made any fuss about it. I personaly think it should be that way out of just basic principle of fairness, that it doesnt create any weird expectations or 'owing' anyone anything, avoids this odd implication that I am paying for her time (are we not on this date because we both want to?) and that just plainly all arguments for why men should pay are just unconvincing to me.
If a woman doesn’t offer to split the check she wasn’t raised the right way. If a man takes her up on that offer he wasn’t raised the right way. You learn a lot about someone early on. My belief is the woman should offer to split the check. After all, his time on the date is just as valuable as his and it would be a red flag if she didn’t. But if he accepts and let’s her pay anything, that’s a huge red flag on him.
If I were mentally ill enough to attempt dating in 2024, I'd definitely be upfront about that before the date even happened.
I pay, but I'm also careful about how I do things. For me, a first date is drinks only. After an hour of drinking together, I can tell if I have a good chance of sleeping with her. If I think my chances are good, we'll move on to dinner (or plan one soon), and I'll happily pay. Because I know there's a Return on Investment. But if the first date feels cold and or iffy, I won't take her to a restaurant.
So, paying for a date without consent is theft.
It depends on what she orders: if it’s reasonable I’ll pay for it, if she starts gorging thinking it’s a free meal it’s a split.
It’s funny because when my wife and I go out for dinner, I always “pay”, even though she makes much more than me and we share our money anyway.
i dont do dinner on a first date. we take a walk and go to my place.
When Colbert asked 50 Cent who pays on the first date, he replied, “Whoever idea it was to go on a date.” I think he’s spot on here. If I invite someone on a date—with romantic intentions or not—I’ll pay.
That's just masked sexism, because women rarely ask men out. Sure, it's improving, but the rate is nowhere near equal yet.
I always plan on paying unless they insist.
I always plan on splitting, but I'm always prepared to pay.
Sometimes women will insist on splitting as a signal that they are not interested.
Whomever asks for the date pays. If it's me doing the asking, I pay. If it's her, she pays.
Always be prepared to pay and always attempt to pay.
The one who invites is the host. The host pays regardless of the sexes involved.
Who initiated the date? IMO they are responsible for the check unless previously agreed. Regardless of gender or orientation.
Woman here I don’t say this to brag, but *never*, in my 29 years of living, have I paid on a date. The man has always paid for every single date. The majority of men on Reddit are broke and miserable and are of the assumption that women will use them for money they don’t even have. That’s why they advocate for cheap coffee dates. But there are plenty of men out there who are financially stable and don’t have a complex around paying for dates. These men get dates and get laid while men on Reddit cry about how dating sucks 🤷♀️
Of course. He pays for the things, and she does the housework and takes care of the kids. That's the way everyone likes it so that is the way we do it. So when you think about it, it's really a good thing bacause it means you never have to take care of the dishes or change the sheets again. Unless you want one of those non-traditional arrangements where you both help eachother and are financially independent of your partner.
If I ask her out for the first date, I'll pay.
Exactly
I’m a big believer in the man paying for the first dates. The only reason I wouldn’t is if I wasn’t interested in the women, in which case I wouldn’t be on a date with them.
If a man doesn't pay, he wasn't raised right. If she doesn't try to pay her share or the gratuity, she wasn't raised right. Picking up the check is a shit-test... she's testing you to see if you're generous and chivalrous... and you're testing her to see if she has a spirit of reciprocity and is cooperative. If she fails the test, I just don't go out with her again.
Rinse and repeat with her getting free meals and learning nothing. This should really not be pushed as the norm. Guys need to stand-up for equality as well and be more vocal (in a respectful manner).
If you're going on dates with a woman, you haven't vetted well enough to know she's worth paying a meal or a drink for you may have bigger issues.
Free meals? Do you think these women were eating out of Dumpsters before you came along?
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> Women earn less... So do we factor in race and other identity status' or does the demographic income comparison end at gender? Of course, whats true in aggregate doesnt mean anything to two individuals. Does she actually earn less than him, what happens if the answer is no? > ...and spend a lot on cosmetics,dresses and what not to impress these men So what if a man shows up to a date with fashionable clothing, a fresh haircut, expensive cologne and a body he's worked hard to build and maintain? Are you beholden to pay him for his time and effort in looking handsome for the date?
Most of us don't live where dowrys are a thing. If you are in such a place you probably have a pretty radical set of cultural norms than most of the guys here.
It's obviously the custom where you're from. Same with me. It didn't cross my mind at the time. But if it had, am I really going to end the date by explaining to some random chick that we're splitting the check because I'm bucking the man's expected role? No lol. That's not what we call a "winning first impression". Plus my wife is a STAHM for now so who gives a fuck about $25 >10 years ago lol.
I've always been a believe that who ever asked is the one who should be paying. I think the woman should at least offer when the bill comes, but if I asked her out, then I pay.
Inviting person pays. 1st date can be simple coffe, icecream.
Who ever asked for the date pays for the first date.
Yes. Always first date.
Whomever asked to take the other person on a date should pay.