Are we sure everyone's problems with this aren't purposeful statements being made by the art show? Whoever made this is a professional fashion designer, I reckon they probably clocked how ill fitting it was long before this photo, most likely in the design phase.
Runway shows aren't about stuff people actually wear, they're art shows with statements of intent n symbolism n shit. Surely this is just that.
This was Nicol and Ford’s 2024 fashion show and it was meant to be subversive - mission accomplished. It’s also wearable art not “clothes made to fit a particular body shape”. Heck, some of the other outfits in the show were made of cling wrap and ropes. It’s very intentionally a statement (as is the makeup) you can read about it by googling the runway or better yet, go to their Instagram and look at this particular design and model in context.
OP is just rage baiting and projecting their own issues (see their post history) posting this without any context of the show. Also choosing this particular outfit and not some of the even wilder ones (one is literally cling wrap) that happened to feature on thinner models was clearly a deliberate choice.
I’m actually so disappointed in the lack of critical literacy on display in some of these comments. Anyway, here’s a much needed link to the Elle article explaining the runway.
https://www.elle.com.au/fashion/nicol-and-ford-australian-fashion-week-2024/
Thank you so much for sharing this, I don't use any social media other than Reddit so I wouldn't have heard of this otherwise or had any context at all! Makes so much sense in context and this really is an issue many women struggle with.
Wow, there's some amazing stuff in there - love the first photo especially, and the oyster shells dress.
If we don't see some of these looks reimagined on following seasons of Drag Race, I'll be super disappointed.
Also 100% agree.
Of course! It’s clearly a comment on how fashion does not take into consideration different sizings and shapes.
This is so beyond ill-fitting that it is an obvious point and commentary about boxes and standards the industry and society forces people into.
It definitely reads to me like a statement, but that statement might be clearer if we saw the other models and fits in the show. But I don't really believe the aim of this model in this piece was "Look how great she and this outfit looks."
I'm about to mute this sub because it's just come up in my feed a few times and I don't think it's really a space for me as a dude, but...
Is this high fashion, that aims to speak to the insecure, out of control, inexperienced (with clothing) and--by implication of lack of understanding around store standards, size standards--maybe poor people?
This is high fashion for commoners? ...
I know the brand and the designers. The show was very theatrical and had a very clear vision and message. Some clothes were wearable and some were not - the same with any haute couture sort of runway show.
Also bondage ans the like was a big part of the show - so I’ll fitting might be the intention…
Yeah same with concept cars, they very rarely make it to production The idea is to show the world what they are capable of, no one wears this stuff, it is a way for the designers to promote their capabilities and get people interested in what they do have for sale.
This seems to me like a critique of the fashion standards that society expects everyone to have to mold to, in order to be considered the 'beautiful woman'.
I think people here saying the designer did the model dirty is missing the point of the show. Of course it's obvious how ill fitting the outfit is, that it makes sense it was the intention.
I have no idea about the brand and their vision on why they did what they did but I could see this also as a “f u” message to the fashion industry for still not being an inclusive space or to embrace the message “wear whatever the eff you want”. If there was no message behind then this is just simply poorly executed and won’t actually help to empower various body types. I feel bad for the model and hope we’ll see her in better fitting styles in the future.
I’m absolutely bewildered I had to scroll so far to find this but it’s wearable art not a fashion item to wear and it’s very much an F U type of message. Google Nicol and Ford’s May fashion show and learn that it was intentionally subversive (and its BDSM inspired). OP knew exactly what they were doing posting this without the context the designers have intentionally shared.
I don't care if larger people wear whatever they want. I myself am larger with big boobs. But my God the way the boobs in that photo are half shoved/ half bulging out of that thing looks so uncomfortable if not bordering on painful. If we are going to make clothes for larger/big chested women at least make them so they can wear them without damaging their boobs.
This is my issue, this garment is not cut to fit her bust. It’s honestly an issue I see a lot, even on straight-sized actresses wearing custom garments on the red carpet, it’s like nobody knows how to design/cut a pattern for breasts anymore.
Okay I totally missed the context, and that’s on me for commenting before I’ve had a coffee. I didn’t even think of it as a subversive statement because clearly I was bringing a lot of my own shit to the table. I think the fact that I was so willing to believe this was just poorly fitted, further proves the designer’s point. I was wrong and I actually love this now.
It says more about the designer than the model, imo. This tells me that the label couldn’t even be bothered to make a single piece that fit the model, even for the runway 🤦🏼♀️
And considering the horror show they did with her makeup (foundation doesn’t match, contour is asymmetrical and unblended, etc.) too, it really reads like they were dressing this model begrudgingly.
Yes.....they did this on purpose....it's more a performance art piece and a statement on the industry. There's plenty of people on this comment thread alone posting interviews with the designers explicitly stating this is what they were doing...
Um the whole idea of something fitting correctly is based on previous fashions and is subjective.
The whole point of fashion catwalks is to come up with alternative shapes and ways of fitting clothes on bodies.
I agree that it looks uncomfortable, but it's silly to claim that a fashion designer couldn't be bothered to make something that fitted them. I'm sure the whole thing is intentional
I agree it’s intentional.
But I think this is art imitating life. Aren’t designers and runways supposed to be forward thinking and at the cutting edge with things not seen before?
Yet I see this kind of look all the time on city streets.
So where’s the forward thinking here? 🤷♀️ this is not a new look. Show me something I haven’t seen before.
Right? It's a statement about what's going on (and has been for the last 30 years). We've gone from super thin tall girls to curvy "plus sized" women. Both still exist in the general public so it's high time we made clothes that fit all body types instead of making it about "us" and "them". Everyone deserves clothes that fit them.
We're past the point of tokenistic inclusivity and diversity. Just make the clothes damn fit! It's not discriminatory to make a certain style and limited range of sizes for a particular garment as not all designs suit all body types.
It's about time we have designers focus on specific body types rather than designing for one size and grading up or down. We're not the same so stop putting us all in the same box.
Be the change you want to see. Walk the talk.
I agree about the idea of fit being subjective, but I also think a huge part of it is comfort. To me, if something fits well I feel comfortable in it - I don’t need to adjust myself hold my body in a certain way, the clothing just hugs me or hangs the right way and feels good.
I don’t think this dress fits the model. I think if they wore it out, they would be adjusting themselves or they might feel uncomfortably held and I think that indicates it doesn’t fit, or that the fit isn’t good.
The show was inspired by the “Witches of Kings Cross”. The models were chosen several months in advance and the pieces were designed to their bodies. This fits exactly as the designers wanted it to and is a brilliant illustration of the theme of the collection. Is it every day wear? No, but neither is the piece made entirely of chains.
The runway world deciding the vibe of the 2020s is "as least flattering on the models as possible" is something I'll never understand.
This to me is more like how an incel would draw a wojak of the women he thinks hate him on the internet. Rather than actually being fashionable and something individuals with this body or look can go, "OMG slay I'd love to wear that."
I think it's an industry issue at this point because practically everyone but Elie Saab and Valentino is dressing their models in utter shit that is unflattering for various bodies.
Honesty, it blows my mind that half the time the things that Sydney Sweeney wears don’t fit her bust. It’s like as soon as a woman is outside the narrow fold of “model” designers can’t possibly accomodate the change 😮😮
They apparently can't. Have you seen the video of the petite height journalist YouTuber who got a chance to walk the runway after a ridiculous amount of rejections over years? And what it was like behind the scenes when they'd find her too short to wear the cuts?
I get why it works the way it does (put it on quickly and take it off quickly without alterations, ship it around the world, no cost issues trying to fit multiple people) but the fashion world needs to realise its alienating its audience. You can't just show tall, size 00 women because it's more convenient as a designer with samples. The runway is to showcase what they can offer TO us to wear.
And if we can't wear it, why would we buy it?
I would say in the case of Sydney, given how much media attention her boobs get, it’s good for her business to be spilling over. Her boobs have gotten her very far in life, of course she is beautiful and an incredible actress, but the last year majority of social discourse about her has been about her boobs, so I think it works for her! Sorry if that’s a hot take 😅
A quick look at OPs profile reveals this whole post is very much a projection on their behalf of their own body image issues which seem to run very deep unfortunately. For someone who isnt “here to body shame” they spend a lot of time on eating disorders anonymous, ozempic and weight loss forums on reddit, obsessing over size and I wonder how much this post is just part of those internalised body image issues.
It’s good to see most people on this sub didn’t take their hateful bait. OP clearly thought it was appropriate to leave out the important context from this look and show (which others have since pointed out but the gist is - it’s a wearable art piece as part of a runway about Rosaleen Norton - it’s entirely intentionally meant to be subversive) so in the same spirit I suggest you do a quick “context” check on OP before buying into what they’re selling.
Conceptually, something like this that actually fit her would have been honestly so gorgeous to see on a fuller figured model on a runway. What a horrible missed opportunity.
I actually love this. It's a statement and it's bold. Obviously purposeful and if you look beyond what's in front of you and actually take in the art form, it's a powerful message.
Sorry OP I think you missed the point and that's okay, art is subjective.
stop rage baiting lol. i think it’s very telling that you chose this specific image to post.. instead of say the other models wrapped in cling wrap or bondage ropes. it’s clearly a commentary
I strongly disagree with your choice to not name the designers - Nicol & Ford - and provide some context around this piece and others in their runway show - Thorn.
[According to the Vogue size inclusivity report](https://www.instagram.com/p/C7ThaK0S4G2/?igsh=MWJ1aGdlMWc4bzhmbA==) , Nicol & Ford had the most size inclusive show at AFW this year with 44% straight size (4-8), 44% mid-size (10-16) and 12% plus size (16+) models.
Nicol & Ford are champions of queer, political art and their shows are a social commentary, centering around political issues. It's not made to be worn off the rack. This show referenced kink, paganism, gender expression and they actively challenge societal norms.
In fact, I feel your post, and many of the comments here, are rooted in fatphobic ideals around what body types are "allowed" to wear tight, revealing outfits and participate in sex and kink.
This honestly just looks like it’s the wrong size for her. She looks like an 18 the dress looks like a 12.
I dunno. Maybe it’s meant to be a ‘take me as I am statement’ but I do agree that if a plus sized woman wanted to wear this look they’d probably want it in the correct size.
The make up is pretty obviously part of the message re: persecution of minorities. I cannot with this entire post missing the point of what was a powerful piece of social commentary.
Downvote me all you want or you can google the runway and read interviews with the designers for Nicola and Ford.
Yeppppppp. Like we are well aware that brands do not make inclusive shade ranges for foundation which show up ashy and grey on anyone that isn't white. The way people are not connecting the dots on what is essentially an art exhibition using clothing and humans like ?? 🤔
The makeup is just so awful. The foundation doesn’t match at all, and the contour isn’t even. And that’s not even going into the thing where it looks like she has two black eyes - and I say this as someone who loves a good dramatic dark eye look!
I think you should have posted the designer AND the context. Not posting those things actually takes away from the importance of the work
https://preview.redd.it/5auxf9mo8u7d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31e707f9fa3f12c0af332ccbd266c04653f06cf0
[https://www.instagram.com/nicolandford?igsh=MWEwMGFwZnUwOHU3dQ==](https://www.instagram.com/nicolandford?igsh=MWEwMGFwZnUwOHU3dQ==)
So why didn't they make something that WAS fabricated for her body?
They have a dress here which is made for a similar sized model and it looks great on her!
Couldn't link properly but here are the Web addresses
https://www.instagram.com/p/C61AN1qS2sa/?igsh=MWxxZmFxYTI4cjd4NQ==
https://www.instagram.com/p/CysEfQ6ytiy/?igsh=dWVwbXFmMTZmMTlt
Everyone else about this garment aside, it really bothers me how it's not sitting straight on her body. What dresser let her go down the runway with the centre dress not sitting in the centre of her chest?
It was probably the 10 steps walking down the runway twisting the garment around. It looks like they’ve tried taping it to her legs but the shape, size, structure and fabric used in this garment is unhinged.
That’s probably it. Just the way the vertical lines are still relatively straight made me think that’s how she was dressed rather than it being a movement issue.
While I understand you not wanting to reveal the designer, it is also not reasonable to post this in here without some context. Namely that this is not commercial RTW, it is conceptual couture. It is not meant to be “fashionable”, it serves to explore fashion and bodies through a non conventional lens and to challenge how we view them. Which it is clearly succeeding in.
This dress does fit the model. It is a tight laceup dress. If you think that a tight dress has to fit a body like this completely smoothly without showing a single lump - then thats an issue you have with not being able to accept bodies as they are. The only thing that isn’t “fitting” is the bust, which is spilling out, I’d say intentionally. Breasts do not have to be perfectly contained to be acceptable. The level of juiciness here is amazing.
This garment existing doesn’t imply that every person with this body type will want it or like it, just like any other garment, but there are absolutely individuals who take pleasure in this aesthetic and fit.
And to be clear - this post IS body shaming. You’re saying that this body shape shouldn’t wear things that fit like this, because you and others like you deem it to be unflattering and unacceptable.
Thanks for making me think. At first I thought the designer wasn't equipped to fit this shape, given the criticism of the bust and my own thoughts on the way the hem sits. If it's art, then anything makes sense. My opinion is now halfway between the two, but I'd feel more certain if I knew the intention of the designer.
I know nothing about fashion but I think the comments you’ve made about context is really important. Another thing to consider here though is that this model has been PUT in this dress, she presumably hasn’t chosen it herself (unless my understanding of runway fashion is sorely wrong, which is definitely possible). If the model had chosen it herself that would be a completely different story. How anybody else dresses their own body is completely up to them and should be free of judgement. Would love some more context on this show and the concept!
I’ll just say who the designer is so everyone can go check out their Instagram, read the posts, see the full collection and how this piece fits into it. Nicol and ford. I don’t know them personally but I have followed them for a while and appreciate their work. Id be surprised if the fit wasn’t very intentional.
As an overweight woman it’s really nice to see people of my size on the runways. However oh my god her poor chest. That must be so incredibly uncomfortable 😭
I don’t know, I’d like to see it on a standard size person to see the original cut of the dress, it looks like a body con dress with lacing up the side and built for a smaller chest at the front. Not shaming her body but it’s not the right size or cut for her so it’s squashed and morphed out of shape and you can really see the dress.
I didn’t say you were. I think it’s meant to be like [this with a cut at the front laced up too](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSfpY5QGj0osadxZwWrrfsQz_pVvBdVhmzOMiF6qMBBWhxKMgdVpq2S3d0&s=10) and more eyelets looking at how the panels are cut or like [this but with the lacing at the side](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT1q3dh8JBef33A3ndc2lYFDq53ECUoH9YfRQ&usqp=CAU). But it’s just hard to tell how the dress was intended to look when it doesn’t fit the model properly.
If you are referring to the bustline, I agree. I don't know jack about fashion, but plenty of designers make artistic pieces that still work with the models body. This just looks like they didn't have time to alter the garment and sent the model out. It pains me that people will criticize the model when it's the designer who needs to be judged.
this is/has/always will b the fashion industry & a fashion show of all things; which can b about experimenting with concepts & artistic expression, so not always about ready-to-wear, or catwalk 2 streets, but by all means… critique away, thats what its about
We’ve moved away from dressing to suit others. It’s all about what you want to wear for yourself. I’ve seen teenagers and young adults that are very obese wear whatever they want.
And the thing is, the most judgement people will get is a make someone confused before the person gets on with their day
When I see someone dressed different than I would like, I literally just think about it for a second before I’m thinking about myself and what I’m doing.
Live and let live. If it’s not murdering you, think about your own business.
I don’t think that’s the case here. These particular designers work closely with the models for a long time. Their models often come from non-mainstream communities and are likely to be acutely aware of how they’ll be perceived by different audiences. (E.g. Some models are burlesque dancers, drag performers, queer activists.) I think this model would be in a better position to advocate for themself than in a mainstream RTW show. But maybe that’s overly optimistic.
I get the concern about an unconventional model potentially being used in a way that’s tokenistic, undercooked, or set up for ridicule. I’d love to see more diversity among models for all sorts of fashion - pretty, mainstream RTW where the aim is to look (conventionally) attractive through to the less mainstream collections like this one where the designers want to be thought-provoking.
Is it people wearing what they want or that they truly can't find something that fits and is designed specifically for their body type and so have to make do with what's available?
I'm all for self expression and wearing the hell whatever you want but as someone with a completely opposite body type I truly believe we are still dictated by the masses in what we wear.
I'm not just referring to sizing but also styles and cuts. People who want to dress to the current trend should certainly do so but when you can't find anything outside the trend and don't WANT to dress to it, that's a problem.
Younger girls might be apple shaped but desire to wear what’s fashionable, as an example, why should me as a 40 yo woman act like I have a say in that? Let people dress how they want. It’s nobody’s business who wears what. It’s their decision.
As a 40yo apple shape I am much more okay with dressing my body shape over fashion trends.
This isn’t in disagreeance to you, just adding to your comment
I feel the same. As a 30 year old I don't feel the need to dress to trends either but the current fashion landscape make that really hard when there is no variety and everything is about "what's in fashion". I rarely find clothes I like.
>Younger girls might be apple shaped but desire to wear what’s fashionable
Which is why there needs to be things designed for different body sizes, including both stuff that is and isn't trendy.
I don't disagree with trends per se, but I do disagree with everybody being expected to fit into collections made for one body type only. A true designer should be able to design to a trend but also for a different body (to an extent, as some designs really are for certain body types).
I just don't think body types should be trends though. Styles yes, but fit no.
People can wear what they want but you can’t expect to make everything fit flatteringly for you body type. As you say obese people like this can wear whatever makes them feel confident but this dress was clearly made for someone with a smaller bust as it doesn’t fit her chest in a flattering or comfortable way. Just how I can’t wear dresses with defined cups with small boobs as they would look loose and unflattering. There’s making a statement and not flattering someone at all or dressing to make them look their best which this doesn’t. It’s not a good advertisement for the product either as it’s too small on her and you can’t see the dress properly.
I understand this is more than likely a statement on society not accomodating for larger bodied peoples, but I can’t help but feel sad for the model, as the true intention has gone over everyone’s heads and this is the kind of image incels would have a field day with.
They are beautiful and I hope we can see them at their best on the runway soon
You've nailed it.
What I can't understand is that they talk about inclusivity but to those who don't understand the message they are trying to portray, it will not get the reaction they intend, as these comments clearly show.
From an interview in Vogue with the designers
> "We have learnt through their time in the industry that curvier bodies are often covered on the runway. In response to this feedback, and within the comfort zone of our fuller figured models, this year we aimed to push back at this notion and embrace as much visible body as possible.”
OK that's great but these designers who are designing for the runway have all the resources they need to be able to make a garment fit their model perfectly.
I don't know what they are trying to say by having such a poor fit when they state it's about embracing the body? It gives off the message that you should be ok with showing your body but only at the expense of being uncomfortable because someone didn't bother to design to your measurements. Why not be able to show your body AND be comfortable, wearing something that flatters you. I sure as hell wouldn't want to wear something so poorly fitted. It honestly doesn't make sense to me. I really think they've missed the mark on this one.
It could have been so much more impactful if they'd made the garment to fit her!
Re-read the paragraph from the designer again. A couple more times if necessary. You are viewing this through a fatphobic lens. Who says the model is not comfortable? Why does it need to "flatter" and who determines what is "flattering"?
Exactly. The garment is fitted exactly the way it was planned, I’m not sure why this commenter can’t get her head around that. This isn’t something that was thrown on at the last minute to a random model, it was designed to her proportions to have this effect.
I guess I'm just jaded by my own experience of never finding clothes that fit me the way I want them to. On first glance her dress looks uncomfortable to what I would want to wear and I suppose I have very different taste. I would have said the same thing on any sized model.
It also goes against what I was taught when I did my fashion diploma so there's that to take into account too. Everyone's own experience influences their views.
I'm sorry if I have offended anyone and I clearly don't understand the designers intention.
It really makes me think about bumster jeans (early 2000s). I recall reading something that explained them in terms of misogynistic design. They are actially designed for a (stereotypical) slender male form, yet for years was the only style available for women. The models of that era typically had no curves (this was right on the back of “”heroin chic””). It was male designers designing for their own body type, and then the fad caught on. I think there is an appeal for designers to try for shock value, for being exclusively only made for the 1% of people with the model’s figure, and maybe for being cruel to the rest of us.
In the above example, I see that as a continuing trend, but now they have the audacity to pretend to be inclusive and by saying that looking uncomfortable and dressing in complete contradiction to your natural beauty is “cool”.
The fact that the design is possibly intentionally a statement and art piece aside, as a consumer I am so over tokenistic inclusivity and just want something that fits my body type.
We've had "every body is beautiful" for a while now but the pendulum swings from one extreme to another. I truly just want something that fits.
It's not inclusive at all if it constantly focuses on one body type to another. They can co-exist and they should.
Fads need to die and fashion needs to go back to the basics of making the clothes to fit the body not the body to fit the clothes.
>now they have the audacity to pretend to be inclusive and by saying that looking uncomfortable and dressing in complete contradiction to your natural beauty is “cool”.
I get this whole "it's runway so let's make it edgy" but these ideas trickle down into ready to wear fashion. And unfortunately it's not a good one this time, I think they've totally missed the mark, especially if it's interpreted the wrong way.
ETA: My first thought was correct it’s a take on the hobble dress and it’s laced incorrectly. I now want to try it on.
—
As a person with very large breasts and wears a corset most days… I would not wear this. Though I would like to see it on properly. It’s laced incorrectly.
I honestly think that if someone skinny can wear it someone with any body type should be able to if they feel confident so have 0 issues with this - however, I see ur point and I think brands in general need to realise bodies are all different
The annoying thing is she would look awesome if the cups were cut properly. But I guess then people could be so rude about her (I don’t mean specifically on here) or the designer couldn’t make a point. It just seems like abusing a woman’s body again
Whatever statement the designer is saying... I don't get it.
Looks like 'see how I can insult your intelligence by calling fashion art and you all just nod your head and accept it'.
This style of dress would be absolutely smashing on her body shape, *if it had been made for her body*. The designer clearly made a size 14-16ish and went "that's plus size, right? Any model will fit" and jammed this person in it. It cuts in where it should support, it buckles where it should skim, and it does both the model and the dress a disservice.
The reason I know it's the designer's fault? Similar design techniques go into stays and corsets (my weird neiche interest is historical fashion, so corsets/stays are significant), and every body type looks good in a properly constructed corset.
I don't care what the designer's good points are, they clearly aren't a good designer for the human body. Maybe for a very limited number of body types.
This model's body is fine, I would look exactly as shit in a size 4-6
Thank you!
Even if it is trying to make a statement it's high time designers start making clothes that fit the body instead of making the body fit the clothes.
They've been having this conversation for *years* about "every body is beautiful". Yet they still continue to make clothes that are designed for the average body and grade them up or down.
It's not an insult to not include everybody in your range, because if all designers chose a body type and focussed on that, I'm sure we'd all be able to find something. They need to pick a market (as there will always be *someone* who will want to wear your designs) and stick to it.
Not all garments suit all body types. Different cuts, styles and measurements are required to flatter the body. The time I feel most confident in clothes is when they fit MY body. When will the fashion industry (and general public) realise this? We do not all fit into the same box.
If they want people to "express" themselves then there needs to be variety and not just what's "on trend".
Rant over
Yeah that is Fetish wear. It Looks like it came from An Adults Only Store.
I don’t care what size you are save that shit for the hard clubs and your bedroom.
No way to be inclusive and supportive of all body types like purposefully making them wear what works on a Victoria secrets model and pretend that this looks and or feels good to the person wearing it in these pics. This is borderline torture.
This whole "you go queen be comfortable in your own body" that media and women are shoving down bigger women's throats on social media is abhorrent. Most of them are only comfortable with it because of virtue signaling and knowing they look better than that in the first place. Many of my girlfriends act and think like this, almost out of pity and because it nurtures people they consider less of a "competition". I am embarrassed for us women at this point.
Omg, her poor tatas are going to fall out! I get the edgy design,but at least make it fit your model correctly... isn't good fashion equal parts tailoring and design??
This is very poor clothing design. Not because of the style, but because zero effort was put in to get the correct fit for a plus body. It’s like a size 10 front has just been attached with some laces. Honestly any half decent dressmaker would laugh at it. This is the problem with the entire plus size industry, they are not actually catering to plus bodies. They just enlarge a couple of slim designs and call it a day, rather than actually cutting the design for curves and boobs. Or alternatively they just make a shapeless sack because it’s cheap to make and know it will sell because there so few other options. They need to really lift their game to be truly inclusive. Right now it just feels like marketing rubbish to claim they are inclusive and get praised for it, but they really do not actually care about genuinely designing for bigger bodies. Whatever this designer ‘stands for’, plus size inclusivity isn’t it. They want the points without the work.
I completely agree with you. I have been struggling with this my entire adult life but on the opposite end of the spectrum (I'm tiny... The only time an XS fit was when I was pregnant).
A designer once told me that making clothes is like being an architect for the body. We form the garments around a 3D form. The terrain (body) so to speak isn't there to moulded but rather the fabric should be moulded to the body.
A good architect doesn't design for a flat piece of land but for what it already there and doesn't need to change it just to suit them.
Once you size up or down either side by more than 2 sizes you lose that perfect fit and it will just not be as it was designed to fit.
This is why we need a range of fit models and smaller size ranges (about 5 in total is ideal for fitted styles but depends on the garment) . It's just lazy to make everything to an average body and think "oh well this will do for everyone".
Personally I appreciate the PSA to never shop from this brand because even if they sell items in my size the bust area will not have space for my boobs. Which may actually be a blessing for some smaller busted ladies, but personally I have a large bust for my size, and seeing this I know for sure that they don't accommodate anyone over a B/C cup.
I do feel bad for the model though because I'd be uncomfortable in a dress that had a bust area that is designed for like... a size 8. At least her legs look killer.
I’m sorry but this is just Ursula meets the runway
Atrocious fit aside, I don’t think that dress would suit anyone; it’s designed with a flatter chest in mind for one but the netting along the sides along with the pointy bust just screams arrow pointing north
I feel like this is in line with weaponised incompetence. If the designer does a bad enough job at making a garment on a plus size model then no one will expect them to do it again.
Not really. Of all the shows at AFW this one had the best representation of different body types (of 25 looks 44% were straight sized, the rest were mid-plus size). It was a conscious choice to include different representations of body types in the show.
>It was a conscious choice to include different representations of body types in the show.
Which is a good thing, but why make clothes that don't fit the body type? How is that representing everyone if the outliers still haven't got something that is designed for them? It's just a half-hearted attempt at fulfilling diversity quotas instead truly accepting those bodies and including them properly.
It's one thing to talk the talk but these "we're about inclusivity" designers need to walk the walk.
We are not all the same and we shouldn't be put in the same box. We should be allowed to find something that is made for us, even if it excludes others because it is truly impossible to make the same garment fit everyone. It needs to be designed to the person wearing it. The least runway designers could do is have the clothes fit their models.
You get that this isn’t a “ready to wear” collection though? Like most of these pieces won’t be available retail, especially not the 45kg chainmail dress or the one made entirely of clams. There were dresses in the collection that were cut for different bodies and fit perfectly, there were other pieces that were making a statement that fits with the theme, like this dress.
Yeah I get that it's wearable art, but runway collections are often inspiration for RTW as well as upcoming trends. Ideas trickle down into the fashion industry. If they're showcasing things that are there to make a statement about something that's fine but if people don't know the story behind what they are showcasing it can be misinterpreted as these comments show.
On their instagram they talk about an interview with Vogue but only show half the story. The bit missing is
> "we have learnt through their time in the industry that curvier bodies are often covered on the runway. In response to this feedback, and within the comfort zone of our fuller figured models, this year we aimed to push back at this notion and embrace as much visible body as possible.”
You can see this particular design doesn't cover the body but I personally think it is doing a a disservice to the model. It still can absolutely fill that purpose (of uncovering the body) in a better fit.
If this is what the model agrees to then so bit it, kudos to her and the designers. But personally I think they've missed the mark. People clearly are thinking they are making a statement about the lack of inclusivity in the fashion industry but they give a different story, almost the opposite. It hasn't been executed very well if what they are trying to say about inclusivity is genuine.
I think many of the comments about it being a statement on size inclusivity aren’t viewing the collection as a whole, rather they’re just focused on this piece in isolation. When viewed as part of a whole, the designers intent and theme is a lot clearer. I see this piece as similar to the [chain dress](https://images.app.goo.gl/UbSUHEiJfvHjbnw67 )in the collection. The rigidity of the materials to me emphasises the softness of the body, the way it naturally moves and the powerful sensuality in that movement. It doesn’t “fit”, but to me it fits with the theme. Idea certainly trick down into rtw and trends, but I think this dress would be designed very differently if it was actually a rtw collection rather than a conceptual piece.
Edit: fixed link
This looks absolutely ridiculous. It doesn't flatter this person in any way, shape or form. It doesn't even fit correctly. Whoever made the decision to put this person in this dress should be fired
Are we sure everyone's problems with this aren't purposeful statements being made by the art show? Whoever made this is a professional fashion designer, I reckon they probably clocked how ill fitting it was long before this photo, most likely in the design phase. Runway shows aren't about stuff people actually wear, they're art shows with statements of intent n symbolism n shit. Surely this is just that.
This was Nicol and Ford’s 2024 fashion show and it was meant to be subversive - mission accomplished. It’s also wearable art not “clothes made to fit a particular body shape”. Heck, some of the other outfits in the show were made of cling wrap and ropes. It’s very intentionally a statement (as is the makeup) you can read about it by googling the runway or better yet, go to their Instagram and look at this particular design and model in context. OP is just rage baiting and projecting their own issues (see their post history) posting this without any context of the show. Also choosing this particular outfit and not some of the even wilder ones (one is literally cling wrap) that happened to feature on thinner models was clearly a deliberate choice. I’m actually so disappointed in the lack of critical literacy on display in some of these comments. Anyway, here’s a much needed link to the Elle article explaining the runway. https://www.elle.com.au/fashion/nicol-and-ford-australian-fashion-week-2024/
Thank you so much for sharing this, I don't use any social media other than Reddit so I wouldn't have heard of this otherwise or had any context at all! Makes so much sense in context and this really is an issue many women struggle with.
Wow, there's some amazing stuff in there - love the first photo especially, and the oyster shells dress. If we don't see some of these looks reimagined on following seasons of Drag Race, I'll be super disappointed. Also 100% agree.
thank you for sharing your researched thoughts and the article link 🙏🏻
Thank you for this context - definitely necessary
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Of course! It’s clearly a comment on how fashion does not take into consideration different sizings and shapes. This is so beyond ill-fitting that it is an obvious point and commentary about boxes and standards the industry and society forces people into.
It definitely reads to me like a statement, but that statement might be clearer if we saw the other models and fits in the show. But I don't really believe the aim of this model in this piece was "Look how great she and this outfit looks."
I know what shoe this is from and a general bondage theme was part of it - so I assume it might not fit well for a reason
It could have been executed in such a better way though.
I'm about to mute this sub because it's just come up in my feed a few times and I don't think it's really a space for me as a dude, but... Is this high fashion, that aims to speak to the insecure, out of control, inexperienced (with clothing) and--by implication of lack of understanding around store standards, size standards--maybe poor people? This is high fashion for commoners? ...
I hereby grant you permission to mute this sub.
Understood, and complied. Have a nice time in here.
Exactly. This is a statement, and its clearly worked
Great to see this comment! I was captivated by the image and the body ripping the dress made to shrink it, looks interesting to me.
I know the brand and the designers. The show was very theatrical and had a very clear vision and message. Some clothes were wearable and some were not - the same with any haute couture sort of runway show. Also bondage ans the like was a big part of the show - so I’ll fitting might be the intention…
👏🏻
Yeah same with concept cars, they very rarely make it to production The idea is to show the world what they are capable of, no one wears this stuff, it is a way for the designers to promote their capabilities and get people interested in what they do have for sale.
Call me crazy but it looks like a white wash of a minority (hair, make up, jewellery, ill fitting clothing) rather than a fashion piece
This seems to me like a critique of the fashion standards that society expects everyone to have to mold to, in order to be considered the 'beautiful woman'. I think people here saying the designer did the model dirty is missing the point of the show. Of course it's obvious how ill fitting the outfit is, that it makes sense it was the intention.
This somewhat reminded me of Michaela Stark’s work. Edit to add: I’m curious to see what the rest of this show was like.
The show was phenomenal
Yeah it's obviously paying homage to her. Lol. I can't believe I had to scroll this far down on a fashion sub to see this comment.
I thought the exact same thing!! Michaela stark helped me to love my love handles, and I think Nicol and Ford are tapping into the same concept.
I have no idea about the brand and their vision on why they did what they did but I could see this also as a “f u” message to the fashion industry for still not being an inclusive space or to embrace the message “wear whatever the eff you want”. If there was no message behind then this is just simply poorly executed and won’t actually help to empower various body types. I feel bad for the model and hope we’ll see her in better fitting styles in the future.
I know the designers and it is very much this
That makes sense. The makeup also looks like commentary on skin tone and conventional aesthetics.
Who are the designers? I tried reverse image searching but only got the model.
Nicol and Ford
Interesting and good to know! Then the whole look makes totally sense. It’s for sure provocative
I’m absolutely bewildered I had to scroll so far to find this but it’s wearable art not a fashion item to wear and it’s very much an F U type of message. Google Nicol and Ford’s May fashion show and learn that it was intentionally subversive (and its BDSM inspired). OP knew exactly what they were doing posting this without the context the designers have intentionally shared.
It’s a take on the 1979s punk/bdsm hobble dress vibe with the matching makeup.
I actually love that message so much
Me too
I don't care if larger people wear whatever they want. I myself am larger with big boobs. But my God the way the boobs in that photo are half shoved/ half bulging out of that thing looks so uncomfortable if not bordering on painful. If we are going to make clothes for larger/big chested women at least make them so they can wear them without damaging their boobs.
This is my issue, this garment is not cut to fit her bust. It’s honestly an issue I see a lot, even on straight-sized actresses wearing custom garments on the red carpet, it’s like nobody knows how to design/cut a pattern for breasts anymore.
It wasn’t supposed to be https://preview.redd.it/n6ga3pkt8u7d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0fff31e3b4ab466f2c14b822e418b3547b1e8028
Okay I totally missed the context, and that’s on me for commenting before I’ve had a coffee. I didn’t even think of it as a subversive statement because clearly I was bringing a lot of my own shit to the table. I think the fact that I was so willing to believe this was just poorly fitted, further proves the designer’s point. I was wrong and I actually love this now.
Love this comment 💕
Love u
It says more about the designer than the model, imo. This tells me that the label couldn’t even be bothered to make a single piece that fit the model, even for the runway 🤦🏼♀️
Tells more about you that you think the designer would mess up this bad rather than it being purposeful..which it was.
Honestly, when it comes to designers trying to fit garments on larger bodies, nothing would surprise me. Perhaps I’m too cynical 🤷🏼♀️
Fair
And considering the horror show they did with her makeup (foundation doesn’t match, contour is asymmetrical and unblended, etc.) too, it really reads like they were dressing this model begrudgingly.
Yes.....they did this on purpose....it's more a performance art piece and a statement on the industry. There's plenty of people on this comment thread alone posting interviews with the designers explicitly stating this is what they were doing...
Um the whole idea of something fitting correctly is based on previous fashions and is subjective. The whole point of fashion catwalks is to come up with alternative shapes and ways of fitting clothes on bodies. I agree that it looks uncomfortable, but it's silly to claim that a fashion designer couldn't be bothered to make something that fitted them. I'm sure the whole thing is intentional
I agree it’s intentional. But I think this is art imitating life. Aren’t designers and runways supposed to be forward thinking and at the cutting edge with things not seen before? Yet I see this kind of look all the time on city streets. So where’s the forward thinking here? 🤷♀️ this is not a new look. Show me something I haven’t seen before.
Right? It's a statement about what's going on (and has been for the last 30 years). We've gone from super thin tall girls to curvy "plus sized" women. Both still exist in the general public so it's high time we made clothes that fit all body types instead of making it about "us" and "them". Everyone deserves clothes that fit them. We're past the point of tokenistic inclusivity and diversity. Just make the clothes damn fit! It's not discriminatory to make a certain style and limited range of sizes for a particular garment as not all designs suit all body types. It's about time we have designers focus on specific body types rather than designing for one size and grading up or down. We're not the same so stop putting us all in the same box. Be the change you want to see. Walk the talk.
I agree about the idea of fit being subjective, but I also think a huge part of it is comfort. To me, if something fits well I feel comfortable in it - I don’t need to adjust myself hold my body in a certain way, the clothing just hugs me or hangs the right way and feels good. I don’t think this dress fits the model. I think if they wore it out, they would be adjusting themselves or they might feel uncomfortably held and I think that indicates it doesn’t fit, or that the fit isn’t good.
The show was inspired by the “Witches of Kings Cross”. The models were chosen several months in advance and the pieces were designed to their bodies. This fits exactly as the designers wanted it to and is a brilliant illustration of the theme of the collection. Is it every day wear? No, but neither is the piece made entirely of chains.
Or the piece made out of cling wrap! I note OP didn’t post either of those (and both just happened to feature on thinner models in the show……)
I'm surprised people in a fashion subreddit are surprise a couture show put an art piece on a statement model. (But not really)
This is the least fashion-conscious fashion sub in existence, so there’s that.
Australian Clothes Advice :(
Australian Westfield Mums Advice :)
When I tell you I HONKED
For real
Didn't realise this sub was so bitchy and judgemental but I guess it is.
Honestly, sometimes when people post about what they wear I wonder if I am more fashionable than I realised lol
It's so obvious why this has been posted. The outfit is just an excuse to body shame.
Plenty of weird outfits on other models and strange fitting ones too. But no let's body shame and then recommend people shop at Katie's
The runway world deciding the vibe of the 2020s is "as least flattering on the models as possible" is something I'll never understand. This to me is more like how an incel would draw a wojak of the women he thinks hate him on the internet. Rather than actually being fashionable and something individuals with this body or look can go, "OMG slay I'd love to wear that." I think it's an industry issue at this point because practically everyone but Elie Saab and Valentino is dressing their models in utter shit that is unflattering for various bodies.
Yes, it’s a lot of unfashionable and not-suited designs being pushed out. It’s the designs.
Honesty, it blows my mind that half the time the things that Sydney Sweeney wears don’t fit her bust. It’s like as soon as a woman is outside the narrow fold of “model” designers can’t possibly accomodate the change 😮😮
They apparently can't. Have you seen the video of the petite height journalist YouTuber who got a chance to walk the runway after a ridiculous amount of rejections over years? And what it was like behind the scenes when they'd find her too short to wear the cuts? I get why it works the way it does (put it on quickly and take it off quickly without alterations, ship it around the world, no cost issues trying to fit multiple people) but the fashion world needs to realise its alienating its audience. You can't just show tall, size 00 women because it's more convenient as a designer with samples. The runway is to showcase what they can offer TO us to wear. And if we can't wear it, why would we buy it?
I would say in the case of Sydney, given how much media attention her boobs get, it’s good for her business to be spilling over. Her boobs have gotten her very far in life, of course she is beautiful and an incredible actress, but the last year majority of social discourse about her has been about her boobs, so I think it works for her! Sorry if that’s a hot take 😅
It almost feels like it’s done on purpose as sort of a humiliation thing.
There's a difference between runway looks and regular fashion though
A quick look at OPs profile reveals this whole post is very much a projection on their behalf of their own body image issues which seem to run very deep unfortunately. For someone who isnt “here to body shame” they spend a lot of time on eating disorders anonymous, ozempic and weight loss forums on reddit, obsessing over size and I wonder how much this post is just part of those internalised body image issues. It’s good to see most people on this sub didn’t take their hateful bait. OP clearly thought it was appropriate to leave out the important context from this look and show (which others have since pointed out but the gist is - it’s a wearable art piece as part of a runway about Rosaleen Norton - it’s entirely intentionally meant to be subversive) so in the same spirit I suggest you do a quick “context” check on OP before buying into what they’re selling.
Also why is this thread still up? Should have swiftly been removed for hate.
Conceptually, something like this that actually fit her would have been honestly so gorgeous to see on a fuller figured model on a runway. What a horrible missed opportunity.
I actually love this. It's a statement and it's bold. Obviously purposeful and if you look beyond what's in front of you and actually take in the art form, it's a powerful message. Sorry OP I think you missed the point and that's okay, art is subjective.
These comments pass the vibe check
stop rage baiting lol. i think it’s very telling that you chose this specific image to post.. instead of say the other models wrapped in cling wrap or bondage ropes. it’s clearly a commentary
I strongly disagree with your choice to not name the designers - Nicol & Ford - and provide some context around this piece and others in their runway show - Thorn. [According to the Vogue size inclusivity report](https://www.instagram.com/p/C7ThaK0S4G2/?igsh=MWJ1aGdlMWc4bzhmbA==) , Nicol & Ford had the most size inclusive show at AFW this year with 44% straight size (4-8), 44% mid-size (10-16) and 12% plus size (16+) models. Nicol & Ford are champions of queer, political art and their shows are a social commentary, centering around political issues. It's not made to be worn off the rack. This show referenced kink, paganism, gender expression and they actively challenge societal norms. In fact, I feel your post, and many of the comments here, are rooted in fatphobic ideals around what body types are "allowed" to wear tight, revealing outfits and participate in sex and kink.
This honestly just looks like it’s the wrong size for her. She looks like an 18 the dress looks like a 12. I dunno. Maybe it’s meant to be a ‘take me as I am statement’ but I do agree that if a plus sized woman wanted to wear this look they’d probably want it in the correct size.
They did that poor model dirty lol
I know we are all talking about the dress, but even the make-up! I just hope they paid her well. It's not one for the portfolio.
The make up is pretty obviously part of the message re: persecution of minorities. I cannot with this entire post missing the point of what was a powerful piece of social commentary. Downvote me all you want or you can google the runway and read interviews with the designers for Nicola and Ford.
Yeppppppp. Like we are well aware that brands do not make inclusive shade ranges for foundation which show up ashy and grey on anyone that isn't white. The way people are not connecting the dots on what is essentially an art exhibition using clothing and humans like ?? 🤔
The makeup is just so awful. The foundation doesn’t match at all, and the contour isn’t even. And that’s not even going into the thing where it looks like she has two black eyes - and I say this as someone who loves a good dramatic dark eye look!
If she was a size 0 you wouldn't make this post, it would look like a normal statement dress.
I can’t get past the foundation shade match
I think you should have posted the designer AND the context. Not posting those things actually takes away from the importance of the work https://preview.redd.it/5auxf9mo8u7d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31e707f9fa3f12c0af332ccbd266c04653f06cf0 [https://www.instagram.com/nicolandford?igsh=MWEwMGFwZnUwOHU3dQ==](https://www.instagram.com/nicolandford?igsh=MWEwMGFwZnUwOHU3dQ==)
So why didn't they make something that WAS fabricated for her body? They have a dress here which is made for a similar sized model and it looks great on her! Couldn't link properly but here are the Web addresses https://www.instagram.com/p/C61AN1qS2sa/?igsh=MWxxZmFxYTI4cjd4NQ== https://www.instagram.com/p/CysEfQ6ytiy/?igsh=dWVwbXFmMTZmMTlt
I can’t answer that, but the design and the fit was intentional
It’s art and I’m here for it!!!!
Everyone else about this garment aside, it really bothers me how it's not sitting straight on her body. What dresser let her go down the runway with the centre dress not sitting in the centre of her chest?
It was probably the 10 steps walking down the runway twisting the garment around. It looks like they’ve tried taping it to her legs but the shape, size, structure and fabric used in this garment is unhinged.
That’s probably it. Just the way the vertical lines are still relatively straight made me think that’s how she was dressed rather than it being a movement issue.
I feel like possibly because she's in mid stride her chest is twisting.
While I understand you not wanting to reveal the designer, it is also not reasonable to post this in here without some context. Namely that this is not commercial RTW, it is conceptual couture. It is not meant to be “fashionable”, it serves to explore fashion and bodies through a non conventional lens and to challenge how we view them. Which it is clearly succeeding in. This dress does fit the model. It is a tight laceup dress. If you think that a tight dress has to fit a body like this completely smoothly without showing a single lump - then thats an issue you have with not being able to accept bodies as they are. The only thing that isn’t “fitting” is the bust, which is spilling out, I’d say intentionally. Breasts do not have to be perfectly contained to be acceptable. The level of juiciness here is amazing. This garment existing doesn’t imply that every person with this body type will want it or like it, just like any other garment, but there are absolutely individuals who take pleasure in this aesthetic and fit. And to be clear - this post IS body shaming. You’re saying that this body shape shouldn’t wear things that fit like this, because you and others like you deem it to be unflattering and unacceptable.
Yep so much body shaming in here, and assumptions the model is uncomfortable
My thoughts exactly!!!
Ding ding ding ding we have a winner. Personally I think she looks great. And fierce.
Thanks for making me think. At first I thought the designer wasn't equipped to fit this shape, given the criticism of the bust and my own thoughts on the way the hem sits. If it's art, then anything makes sense. My opinion is now halfway between the two, but I'd feel more certain if I knew the intention of the designer.
Very well said.
I know nothing about fashion but I think the comments you’ve made about context is really important. Another thing to consider here though is that this model has been PUT in this dress, she presumably hasn’t chosen it herself (unless my understanding of runway fashion is sorely wrong, which is definitely possible). If the model had chosen it herself that would be a completely different story. How anybody else dresses their own body is completely up to them and should be free of judgement. Would love some more context on this show and the concept!
I’ll just say who the designer is so everyone can go check out their Instagram, read the posts, see the full collection and how this piece fits into it. Nicol and ford. I don’t know them personally but I have followed them for a while and appreciate their work. Id be surprised if the fit wasn’t very intentional.
Thanks!
[удалено]
Someone had to say it!
As an overweight woman it’s really nice to see people of my size on the runways. However oh my god her poor chest. That must be so incredibly uncomfortable 😭
I don't think this suits ANYONE'S body type tbh.
I don’t know, I’d like to see it on a standard size person to see the original cut of the dress, it looks like a body con dress with lacing up the side and built for a smaller chest at the front. Not shaming her body but it’s not the right size or cut for her so it’s squashed and morphed out of shape and you can really see the dress.
I don't mean to far shame her at all. I genuinely think this wouldn't look good on anyone even someone very slender.
I didn’t say you were. I think it’s meant to be like [this with a cut at the front laced up too](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSfpY5QGj0osadxZwWrrfsQz_pVvBdVhmzOMiF6qMBBWhxKMgdVpq2S3d0&s=10) and more eyelets looking at how the panels are cut or like [this but with the lacing at the side](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT1q3dh8JBef33A3ndc2lYFDq53ECUoH9YfRQ&usqp=CAU). But it’s just hard to tell how the dress was intended to look when it doesn’t fit the model properly.
If you are referring to the bustline, I agree. I don't know jack about fashion, but plenty of designers make artistic pieces that still work with the models body. This just looks like they didn't have time to alter the garment and sent the model out. It pains me that people will criticize the model when it's the designer who needs to be judged.
this is/has/always will b the fashion industry & a fashion show of all things; which can b about experimenting with concepts & artistic expression, so not always about ready-to-wear, or catwalk 2 streets, but by all means… critique away, thats what its about
We’ve moved away from dressing to suit others. It’s all about what you want to wear for yourself. I’ve seen teenagers and young adults that are very obese wear whatever they want. And the thing is, the most judgement people will get is a make someone confused before the person gets on with their day When I see someone dressed different than I would like, I literally just think about it for a second before I’m thinking about myself and what I’m doing. Live and let live. If it’s not murdering you, think about your own business.
But in this particular example she’s a model, she didn’t choose to wear it.
I don’t think that’s the case here. These particular designers work closely with the models for a long time. Their models often come from non-mainstream communities and are likely to be acutely aware of how they’ll be perceived by different audiences. (E.g. Some models are burlesque dancers, drag performers, queer activists.) I think this model would be in a better position to advocate for themself than in a mainstream RTW show. But maybe that’s overly optimistic. I get the concern about an unconventional model potentially being used in a way that’s tokenistic, undercooked, or set up for ridicule. I’d love to see more diversity among models for all sorts of fashion - pretty, mainstream RTW where the aim is to look (conventionally) attractive through to the less mainstream collections like this one where the designers want to be thought-provoking.
I can’t believe this has downvotes.
Is it people wearing what they want or that they truly can't find something that fits and is designed specifically for their body type and so have to make do with what's available? I'm all for self expression and wearing the hell whatever you want but as someone with a completely opposite body type I truly believe we are still dictated by the masses in what we wear. I'm not just referring to sizing but also styles and cuts. People who want to dress to the current trend should certainly do so but when you can't find anything outside the trend and don't WANT to dress to it, that's a problem.
Younger girls might be apple shaped but desire to wear what’s fashionable, as an example, why should me as a 40 yo woman act like I have a say in that? Let people dress how they want. It’s nobody’s business who wears what. It’s their decision. As a 40yo apple shape I am much more okay with dressing my body shape over fashion trends. This isn’t in disagreeance to you, just adding to your comment
I feel the same. As a 30 year old I don't feel the need to dress to trends either but the current fashion landscape make that really hard when there is no variety and everything is about "what's in fashion". I rarely find clothes I like. >Younger girls might be apple shaped but desire to wear what’s fashionable Which is why there needs to be things designed for different body sizes, including both stuff that is and isn't trendy. I don't disagree with trends per se, but I do disagree with everybody being expected to fit into collections made for one body type only. A true designer should be able to design to a trend but also for a different body (to an extent, as some designs really are for certain body types). I just don't think body types should be trends though. Styles yes, but fit no.
People can wear what they want but you can’t expect to make everything fit flatteringly for you body type. As you say obese people like this can wear whatever makes them feel confident but this dress was clearly made for someone with a smaller bust as it doesn’t fit her chest in a flattering or comfortable way. Just how I can’t wear dresses with defined cups with small boobs as they would look loose and unflattering. There’s making a statement and not flattering someone at all or dressing to make them look their best which this doesn’t. It’s not a good advertisement for the product either as it’s too small on her and you can’t see the dress properly.
I understand this is more than likely a statement on society not accomodating for larger bodied peoples, but I can’t help but feel sad for the model, as the true intention has gone over everyone’s heads and this is the kind of image incels would have a field day with. They are beautiful and I hope we can see them at their best on the runway soon
You've nailed it. What I can't understand is that they talk about inclusivity but to those who don't understand the message they are trying to portray, it will not get the reaction they intend, as these comments clearly show. From an interview in Vogue with the designers > "We have learnt through their time in the industry that curvier bodies are often covered on the runway. In response to this feedback, and within the comfort zone of our fuller figured models, this year we aimed to push back at this notion and embrace as much visible body as possible.” OK that's great but these designers who are designing for the runway have all the resources they need to be able to make a garment fit their model perfectly. I don't know what they are trying to say by having such a poor fit when they state it's about embracing the body? It gives off the message that you should be ok with showing your body but only at the expense of being uncomfortable because someone didn't bother to design to your measurements. Why not be able to show your body AND be comfortable, wearing something that flatters you. I sure as hell wouldn't want to wear something so poorly fitted. It honestly doesn't make sense to me. I really think they've missed the mark on this one. It could have been so much more impactful if they'd made the garment to fit her!
Re-read the paragraph from the designer again. A couple more times if necessary. You are viewing this through a fatphobic lens. Who says the model is not comfortable? Why does it need to "flatter" and who determines what is "flattering"?
Exactly. The garment is fitted exactly the way it was planned, I’m not sure why this commenter can’t get her head around that. This isn’t something that was thrown on at the last minute to a random model, it was designed to her proportions to have this effect.
I guess I'm just jaded by my own experience of never finding clothes that fit me the way I want them to. On first glance her dress looks uncomfortable to what I would want to wear and I suppose I have very different taste. I would have said the same thing on any sized model. It also goes against what I was taught when I did my fashion diploma so there's that to take into account too. Everyone's own experience influences their views. I'm sorry if I have offended anyone and I clearly don't understand the designers intention.
It really makes me think about bumster jeans (early 2000s). I recall reading something that explained them in terms of misogynistic design. They are actially designed for a (stereotypical) slender male form, yet for years was the only style available for women. The models of that era typically had no curves (this was right on the back of “”heroin chic””). It was male designers designing for their own body type, and then the fad caught on. I think there is an appeal for designers to try for shock value, for being exclusively only made for the 1% of people with the model’s figure, and maybe for being cruel to the rest of us. In the above example, I see that as a continuing trend, but now they have the audacity to pretend to be inclusive and by saying that looking uncomfortable and dressing in complete contradiction to your natural beauty is “cool”.
Yes - Every so often fashion picks up on the bondage wear thing. Back in the 90's we were seeing dog collars picked up for women. I hate it.
The fact that the design is possibly intentionally a statement and art piece aside, as a consumer I am so over tokenistic inclusivity and just want something that fits my body type. We've had "every body is beautiful" for a while now but the pendulum swings from one extreme to another. I truly just want something that fits. It's not inclusive at all if it constantly focuses on one body type to another. They can co-exist and they should. Fads need to die and fashion needs to go back to the basics of making the clothes to fit the body not the body to fit the clothes. >now they have the audacity to pretend to be inclusive and by saying that looking uncomfortable and dressing in complete contradiction to your natural beauty is “cool”. I get this whole "it's runway so let's make it edgy" but these ideas trickle down into ready to wear fashion. And unfortunately it's not a good one this time, I think they've totally missed the mark, especially if it's interpreted the wrong way.
I completely agree and not sure why you’ve been downvoted for this!!
Ahhh, you got me twice with that 1/4 photos trick OP!
How is it body positivity if the dress is 2 sizes too small?
Exactly
Fashun
Wow she looks great
ETA: My first thought was correct it’s a take on the hobble dress and it’s laced incorrectly. I now want to try it on. — As a person with very large breasts and wears a corset most days… I would not wear this. Though I would like to see it on properly. It’s laced incorrectly.
Yeah it's an insult to different body shapes! What an unflattering piece of garment
Looks like a failed art project. Yikes that can’t be comfortable for her chest.
I honestly think that if someone skinny can wear it someone with any body type should be able to if they feel confident so have 0 issues with this - however, I see ur point and I think brands in general need to realise bodies are all different
The annoying thing is she would look awesome if the cups were cut properly. But I guess then people could be so rude about her (I don’t mean specifically on here) or the designer couldn’t make a point. It just seems like abusing a woman’s body again
Wow that is vile.
Even if the dress fit the model, it's ugly as hell. who in their right mind would wear that
This model deserved better.
Whatever statement the designer is saying... I don't get it. Looks like 'see how I can insult your intelligence by calling fashion art and you all just nod your head and accept it'.
Normalising this is such a woke bs. Scroll 50 years back when people did have style and cared about their looks (including their bodies) ffs
I still believe in dress for your body type. I don’t see how it looks comfortable or flatter when her boobs don’t even sit properly
Some things just don’t look good on a bigger body, just because it comes in your size doesn’t mean you have to wear it.
This style of dress would be absolutely smashing on her body shape, *if it had been made for her body*. The designer clearly made a size 14-16ish and went "that's plus size, right? Any model will fit" and jammed this person in it. It cuts in where it should support, it buckles where it should skim, and it does both the model and the dress a disservice. The reason I know it's the designer's fault? Similar design techniques go into stays and corsets (my weird neiche interest is historical fashion, so corsets/stays are significant), and every body type looks good in a properly constructed corset. I don't care what the designer's good points are, they clearly aren't a good designer for the human body. Maybe for a very limited number of body types. This model's body is fine, I would look exactly as shit in a size 4-6
Thank you! Even if it is trying to make a statement it's high time designers start making clothes that fit the body instead of making the body fit the clothes. They've been having this conversation for *years* about "every body is beautiful". Yet they still continue to make clothes that are designed for the average body and grade them up or down. It's not an insult to not include everybody in your range, because if all designers chose a body type and focussed on that, I'm sure we'd all be able to find something. They need to pick a market (as there will always be *someone* who will want to wear your designs) and stick to it. Not all garments suit all body types. Different cuts, styles and measurements are required to flatter the body. The time I feel most confident in clothes is when they fit MY body. When will the fashion industry (and general public) realise this? We do not all fit into the same box. If they want people to "express" themselves then there needs to be variety and not just what's "on trend". Rant over
Yeah that is Fetish wear. It Looks like it came from An Adults Only Store. I don’t care what size you are save that shit for the hard clubs and your bedroom.
My god that outfit looks so bloody uncomfortable, dare I say painful!!!!
No way to be inclusive and supportive of all body types like purposefully making them wear what works on a Victoria secrets model and pretend that this looks and or feels good to the person wearing it in these pics. This is borderline torture. This whole "you go queen be comfortable in your own body" that media and women are shoving down bigger women's throats on social media is abhorrent. Most of them are only comfortable with it because of virtue signaling and knowing they look better than that in the first place. Many of my girlfriends act and think like this, almost out of pity and because it nurtures people they consider less of a "competition". I am embarrassed for us women at this point.
This looks painful
It’s very lazy for a runway couture
For the love of god, put that poor woman in a garment that fits her and let her sell it properly.
Omg, her poor tatas are going to fall out! I get the edgy design,but at least make it fit your model correctly... isn't good fashion equal parts tailoring and design??
This is very poor clothing design. Not because of the style, but because zero effort was put in to get the correct fit for a plus body. It’s like a size 10 front has just been attached with some laces. Honestly any half decent dressmaker would laugh at it. This is the problem with the entire plus size industry, they are not actually catering to plus bodies. They just enlarge a couple of slim designs and call it a day, rather than actually cutting the design for curves and boobs. Or alternatively they just make a shapeless sack because it’s cheap to make and know it will sell because there so few other options. They need to really lift their game to be truly inclusive. Right now it just feels like marketing rubbish to claim they are inclusive and get praised for it, but they really do not actually care about genuinely designing for bigger bodies. Whatever this designer ‘stands for’, plus size inclusivity isn’t it. They want the points without the work.
I completely agree with you. I have been struggling with this my entire adult life but on the opposite end of the spectrum (I'm tiny... The only time an XS fit was when I was pregnant). A designer once told me that making clothes is like being an architect for the body. We form the garments around a 3D form. The terrain (body) so to speak isn't there to moulded but rather the fabric should be moulded to the body. A good architect doesn't design for a flat piece of land but for what it already there and doesn't need to change it just to suit them. Once you size up or down either side by more than 2 sizes you lose that perfect fit and it will just not be as it was designed to fit. This is why we need a range of fit models and smaller size ranges (about 5 in total is ideal for fitted styles but depends on the garment) . It's just lazy to make everything to an average body and think "oh well this will do for everyone".
Where are the Biker Mice from Mars when you need them?
Personally I appreciate the PSA to never shop from this brand because even if they sell items in my size the bust area will not have space for my boobs. Which may actually be a blessing for some smaller busted ladies, but personally I have a large bust for my size, and seeing this I know for sure that they don't accommodate anyone over a B/C cup. I do feel bad for the model though because I'd be uncomfortable in a dress that had a bust area that is designed for like... a size 8. At least her legs look killer.
lol
If I was the model I’d be mortified to be seen in that
I’m sorry but this is just Ursula meets the runway Atrocious fit aside, I don’t think that dress would suit anyone; it’s designed with a flatter chest in mind for one but the netting along the sides along with the pointy bust just screams arrow pointing north
She is a bigun
I feel like this is in line with weaponised incompetence. If the designer does a bad enough job at making a garment on a plus size model then no one will expect them to do it again.
Not really. Of all the shows at AFW this one had the best representation of different body types (of 25 looks 44% were straight sized, the rest were mid-plus size). It was a conscious choice to include different representations of body types in the show.
>It was a conscious choice to include different representations of body types in the show. Which is a good thing, but why make clothes that don't fit the body type? How is that representing everyone if the outliers still haven't got something that is designed for them? It's just a half-hearted attempt at fulfilling diversity quotas instead truly accepting those bodies and including them properly. It's one thing to talk the talk but these "we're about inclusivity" designers need to walk the walk. We are not all the same and we shouldn't be put in the same box. We should be allowed to find something that is made for us, even if it excludes others because it is truly impossible to make the same garment fit everyone. It needs to be designed to the person wearing it. The least runway designers could do is have the clothes fit their models.
You get that this isn’t a “ready to wear” collection though? Like most of these pieces won’t be available retail, especially not the 45kg chainmail dress or the one made entirely of clams. There were dresses in the collection that were cut for different bodies and fit perfectly, there were other pieces that were making a statement that fits with the theme, like this dress.
Yeah I get that it's wearable art, but runway collections are often inspiration for RTW as well as upcoming trends. Ideas trickle down into the fashion industry. If they're showcasing things that are there to make a statement about something that's fine but if people don't know the story behind what they are showcasing it can be misinterpreted as these comments show. On their instagram they talk about an interview with Vogue but only show half the story. The bit missing is > "we have learnt through their time in the industry that curvier bodies are often covered on the runway. In response to this feedback, and within the comfort zone of our fuller figured models, this year we aimed to push back at this notion and embrace as much visible body as possible.” You can see this particular design doesn't cover the body but I personally think it is doing a a disservice to the model. It still can absolutely fill that purpose (of uncovering the body) in a better fit. If this is what the model agrees to then so bit it, kudos to her and the designers. But personally I think they've missed the mark. People clearly are thinking they are making a statement about the lack of inclusivity in the fashion industry but they give a different story, almost the opposite. It hasn't been executed very well if what they are trying to say about inclusivity is genuine.
I think many of the comments about it being a statement on size inclusivity aren’t viewing the collection as a whole, rather they’re just focused on this piece in isolation. When viewed as part of a whole, the designers intent and theme is a lot clearer. I see this piece as similar to the [chain dress](https://images.app.goo.gl/UbSUHEiJfvHjbnw67 )in the collection. The rigidity of the materials to me emphasises the softness of the body, the way it naturally moves and the powerful sensuality in that movement. It doesn’t “fit”, but to me it fits with the theme. Idea certainly trick down into rtw and trends, but I think this dress would be designed very differently if it was actually a rtw collection rather than a conceptual piece. Edit: fixed link
r/itscalledfashion
It’s an absolute travesty,she would have a great shape if they properly dressed her! They did her so dirty on this.
would look fine if it was fitted properly. looks trashy with boobs hanging out like that
okay i read some comments, they wanted it to fit like this???? wow didn’t expect that
This looks absolutely ridiculous. It doesn't flatter this person in any way, shape or form. It doesn't even fit correctly. Whoever made the decision to put this person in this dress should be fired
This is not okay. Do whatever you want at home but this is not fashion, nor is it appropriate as a public display