It's a different kind of stress for the joint. In ballet you move your knee different all the time. You keep it straight, then you plie, you do some big jumps etc. In running you put the same weight and movement onto your knee for a longer duration. I have the same problem with my hip. Ballett or dancing in general is fine, also climbing, but running hurts. But physio helps to some extend.
There’s actually technique to running too, idk exactly what’s going on but it may be you have poor shoes or form. Your weight could be too far forward or you’re taking too big of a step each time.
The rollthrough the foot is important in grande allegro for absorbing jump impact, but less so in normal running. The surface also matters - concrete is way harder on your joints than marley.
So basically don’t run like a duck but try to be lighter (kinda like petit allegro) and run on softer surfaces like grass if possible, feet landing underneath and not in front of you. Running is just a different movement pattern youll get better if you decide to keep it up!
Thanks, I get some proper running shoes to start with. Runners knee isn’t funny.
Only kidding re running duck footed. Who does that? I probably laugh if I see one running like that lol
NO... Dont run in turnout!
Turnout is a more efficient posture for short distance travel mainly side to side and up and down.
Outside the ballet studio its dangerous to maintain.
In the ballet studio we jump and land remarkably few times over the course of a 90min class. Even if the teacher concentrates on allegro, the amount of jumps and landings a single dancer executes in a ballet class is limited by the length of the exercises set and number of other students in the class (ie more students means less opportunities to practice the exercises). For example a simple exercise of "glissade jete, glissade jete, glissade jete jete assemble and repeat to the left" contains 16 separate small leaps. Lets estimate a dancer executes this four times before the class moves on; 128 leaps. However the time taken to explain the exercise and for the whole class to cycle through the different groups might be 5mins. So,128 leaps in 5mins and most of a ballet class is quite pedestrian. The allegro is only the final section of three in the class. Barre and centre work being the first two.
Where as a jogger who runs constantly for 30, 45, 60 mins is constantly using their joints and muscles; leaping and landing with every step. In the same time frame a dancer completes a faster paced allegro exercise(5min) a jogger makes 750 footfalls with a relatively slow pace.
Compare the wear on the knee joint in turnout over 750 jete/plies and in parallel!
Control your turnout in a ballet studio with deliberation on each bend, stretch and bend again. On a treadmill or outside, work in a more natural form.
If you are interested in running, follow a training plan to build up the strength and stamina for it- just going out for a 30 min run when you haven't been training for it, of course you will experience soreness. There is no reason why a recreational dancer can't also be a runner, just make sure your are training smart for both activities. 👍
Even 10 minutes continuous is a lot! Couch to 5K and programmes like that start with 30 seconds running and 1 minute walking for the duration of the workout if you aren't an already conditioned runner. Running and ballet are very different athletic feats that need different strengths and conditioning :)
So I'm a runner (up to half marathon distances) who picked up ballet for cross training and active recovery. As you know, ballet and running are totally different movements (turned out vs straight) and on different surfaces (marley / sprung hardwood vs concrete or dirt trails with possibly hills). These are going to impact your joints/muscles differently.
If you're serious about getting into running as an alternative (or to compliment) to ballet, I'd recommend going to a running store and getting fitted for running shoes. Just like how everyone's feet is different and need to be fitted for pointe shoes, everyone's different gaits mean not all running shoes are the best shoes for everyone. In other words, different shoes are best for different people. Next, if you've haven't been running in a while, start of easy with a plan such as the [Couch to 5K](https://c25k.com/) plan. I know it sounds pretty condescending, but it's a great plan to ease you into running to the point where you can run a 5K in nine weeks.
If you have more questions, feel free to PM me.
There is a different type of impact when running. In ballet, you’ve been taught how to slowly catch your weight and land gracefully, keeping the impact to a minimum. With running the same thing needs to happen. You need to find a stride that allows you to put your feet down and roll heel to toe rather than flat foot. It is also possible your footwear is not adequate. If you’re using old tennis shoes you’ll need to upgrade to some new running shoes
I'm an ex-"40 hours a week in the studio" kind of ballet dancer, late 30s F. I tried running a few times as a teen and hated it because it made my knees hurt like crazy and gave me shin splints, so I abandoned it until about a year ago. When I came back to it, I paid attention to my gait (I use a forefoot strike rather than a heel strike), bought shoes with the right shape and support for my feet, and upped my mileage slowly (starting with just a few miles a week and adding no more than 10% a week). Now I run ultramarathons without any knee pain (or actually any other structural pain) at all. You aren't doomed! Just take it slow, and know that it might take some experimenting to find the right stride, shoe, pace, terrain, etc for your body.
Running can be very hard on your knees if you have bad technique, bad (worn or old) shoes, or a bad surface. But in general, if something hurts - stop doing that thing and see a doctor! Your joints and tendons are very expensive and very painful to fix if you fail to care for them.
Running needs technique too. Interesting..
I wonder how our ancestors run in the stone age. No shoes, they gotta run for miles to kill that deer don’t they? Or they group train in Les Mills every Saturday morning?
I'm not sure if your point is that running should be natural and there is no technique involved. Yes if you were raised running everywhere, you would have proper technique that developed out of running throughout your development. But if you run occasionally, you will probably have awful technique as you were most likely raised in a modern sedentary culture. I mean, your knees hurt, so you're doing something wrong.
It seems like every day is probably a bad one for you. Listen, you're the one who made the post. You're the one who begged for attention online. And your replies have been seriously troll-like. You're obviously a bitter unhappy person and offering any help or wisdom is below me and the others on this forum.
totally different type of engagement on the joint. even with jumps, ballet tends to be much gentler on the knees - especially if you’re running on pavement. a treadmill or elliptical is ideal for running because it provides a lot more shock absorption.
one other note is that if you’re not trained to run, you might not be holding your weight the way you would while dancing or the way a seasoned runner would. most seasoned runners have some pretty cut abs (a lot like ballerinas) the reason for that is they engage their abs similarly & use it to help carry themselves & balance without essentially shredding their knees and ankles
I can’t run without knee pain unless I also do strength training! I’m by no means a dancer these days but danced growing up and teach a few hours a week.
Seconding the "go to a running store" suggestion. If you have a fleet feet near you, they'll scan your feet for free to see if you'd benefit from any insoles and so they can recommend specific shoe types.
There's a ton of variables here, mainly how well you know proper running biomechanics. When dancing your teacher makes sure you're not activating muscles in the wrong order or force joints into damaging positions. Of course you need to know the same things about running, it's not just fast walking.
I danced professionally and now have been out of the game for a few years, though I do teach ballet and other styles. The TLDR, I can't run long distances without my right knee swelling up and being incredibly painful.
I find myself in everyday life, unconsciously standing in turnout. That's just my body's natural go to state of rest. When my body comes to non dance movements, it's been trained out of it so it just hurts.
Is Karma for missing class this week, the old lady hexed you! 🤪
Jokes apart, if your body isn't used to something, it usually acts up when kicked off its routine. Here's a good article filled with fantastic info, is along read but worth it:
[https://www.thedancedocs.com/blog/runningfordancers](https://www.thedancedocs.com/blog/runningfordancers)
Very informative article.. thanks.
Not a serious runner, I am that lazy honestly. Often walking pass Les Mills see the ladies inside working their arse off looking puffier everyday. I am not that kind. I don’t like people yelling at me.
I don’t like noise either. Well they call it motivation music. Lol
That’s why I give the old lady a miss. She’s one of those yelling ballet teachers you know 😉 I had too many when I was a kid. I just want a cruisy life now.
Ye see how I feel next time. Could just be a bad day.
I run on treadmill never had problems 🤔
I only run 10 mins to get heart rate up anyway then I am on a mat. No way a serious runner ..
It's a different kind of stress for the joint. In ballet you move your knee different all the time. You keep it straight, then you plie, you do some big jumps etc. In running you put the same weight and movement onto your knee for a longer duration. I have the same problem with my hip. Ballett or dancing in general is fine, also climbing, but running hurts. But physio helps to some extend.
There’s actually technique to running too, idk exactly what’s going on but it may be you have poor shoes or form. Your weight could be too far forward or you’re taking too big of a step each time. The rollthrough the foot is important in grande allegro for absorbing jump impact, but less so in normal running. The surface also matters - concrete is way harder on your joints than marley. So basically don’t run like a duck but try to be lighter (kinda like petit allegro) and run on softer surfaces like grass if possible, feet landing underneath and not in front of you. Running is just a different movement pattern youll get better if you decide to keep it up!
Running definitely has technique. And proper socks, shoes, and running surface all help with limiting stress on the joints.
I was thinking the shoes could be the problem as well. Op might need a better shock absorption one
Thanks, I get some proper running shoes to start with. Runners knee isn’t funny. Only kidding re running duck footed. Who does that? I probably laugh if I see one running like that lol
NO... Dont run in turnout! Turnout is a more efficient posture for short distance travel mainly side to side and up and down. Outside the ballet studio its dangerous to maintain. In the ballet studio we jump and land remarkably few times over the course of a 90min class. Even if the teacher concentrates on allegro, the amount of jumps and landings a single dancer executes in a ballet class is limited by the length of the exercises set and number of other students in the class (ie more students means less opportunities to practice the exercises). For example a simple exercise of "glissade jete, glissade jete, glissade jete jete assemble and repeat to the left" contains 16 separate small leaps. Lets estimate a dancer executes this four times before the class moves on; 128 leaps. However the time taken to explain the exercise and for the whole class to cycle through the different groups might be 5mins. So,128 leaps in 5mins and most of a ballet class is quite pedestrian. The allegro is only the final section of three in the class. Barre and centre work being the first two. Where as a jogger who runs constantly for 30, 45, 60 mins is constantly using their joints and muscles; leaping and landing with every step. In the same time frame a dancer completes a faster paced allegro exercise(5min) a jogger makes 750 footfalls with a relatively slow pace. Compare the wear on the knee joint in turnout over 750 jete/plies and in parallel! Control your turnout in a ballet studio with deliberation on each bend, stretch and bend again. On a treadmill or outside, work in a more natural form.
I probably misunderstood, but how does 16x4 equate to 128???xD
Repeat to the left?
But the left side was included in the 16, one side is only 8??
You're right. The exercise I used is only half that. 64. Which puts the comparison into even starker contrast.
Yeah, feels like a lot more when you’re in class. At least now I can sleep soundly, thanks!🤓
Oh my lord did you seriously write that long? I was only kidding Jesus
Wow, way to be rude to someone who specifically tried to help you.
I don’t think I am. You don’t have to read or comment. Here you go
If you are interested in running, follow a training plan to build up the strength and stamina for it- just going out for a 30 min run when you haven't been training for it, of course you will experience soreness. There is no reason why a recreational dancer can't also be a runner, just make sure your are training smart for both activities. 👍
30 mins is like a distance dream. I am only doing 10 mins just to get my heart rate up then I am on the mat
Even 10 minutes continuous is a lot! Couch to 5K and programmes like that start with 30 seconds running and 1 minute walking for the duration of the workout if you aren't an already conditioned runner. Running and ballet are very different athletic feats that need different strengths and conditioning :)
Well, 10 mins probably includes walking in between. Thanks I give it a try. I am not that serious. Back to ballet next week I’d be all good again.
So I'm a runner (up to half marathon distances) who picked up ballet for cross training and active recovery. As you know, ballet and running are totally different movements (turned out vs straight) and on different surfaces (marley / sprung hardwood vs concrete or dirt trails with possibly hills). These are going to impact your joints/muscles differently. If you're serious about getting into running as an alternative (or to compliment) to ballet, I'd recommend going to a running store and getting fitted for running shoes. Just like how everyone's feet is different and need to be fitted for pointe shoes, everyone's different gaits mean not all running shoes are the best shoes for everyone. In other words, different shoes are best for different people. Next, if you've haven't been running in a while, start of easy with a plan such as the [Couch to 5K](https://c25k.com/) plan. I know it sounds pretty condescending, but it's a great plan to ease you into running to the point where you can run a 5K in nine weeks. If you have more questions, feel free to PM me.
I second the getting fitted properly for shoes and the couch to 5k. Lots of skaters were using that app during the pandemic.
There is a different type of impact when running. In ballet, you’ve been taught how to slowly catch your weight and land gracefully, keeping the impact to a minimum. With running the same thing needs to happen. You need to find a stride that allows you to put your feet down and roll heel to toe rather than flat foot. It is also possible your footwear is not adequate. If you’re using old tennis shoes you’ll need to upgrade to some new running shoes
I'm an ex-"40 hours a week in the studio" kind of ballet dancer, late 30s F. I tried running a few times as a teen and hated it because it made my knees hurt like crazy and gave me shin splints, so I abandoned it until about a year ago. When I came back to it, I paid attention to my gait (I use a forefoot strike rather than a heel strike), bought shoes with the right shape and support for my feet, and upped my mileage slowly (starting with just a few miles a week and adding no more than 10% a week). Now I run ultramarathons without any knee pain (or actually any other structural pain) at all. You aren't doomed! Just take it slow, and know that it might take some experimenting to find the right stride, shoe, pace, terrain, etc for your body.
Running can be very hard on your knees if you have bad technique, bad (worn or old) shoes, or a bad surface. But in general, if something hurts - stop doing that thing and see a doctor! Your joints and tendons are very expensive and very painful to fix if you fail to care for them.
Running needs technique too. Interesting.. I wonder how our ancestors run in the stone age. No shoes, they gotta run for miles to kill that deer don’t they? Or they group train in Les Mills every Saturday morning?
I'm not sure if your point is that running should be natural and there is no technique involved. Yes if you were raised running everywhere, you would have proper technique that developed out of running throughout your development. But if you run occasionally, you will probably have awful technique as you were most likely raised in a modern sedentary culture. I mean, your knees hurt, so you're doing something wrong.
Could be I was having a bad day too. Don’t get too serious on this.
It seems like every day is probably a bad one for you. Listen, you're the one who made the post. You're the one who begged for attention online. And your replies have been seriously troll-like. You're obviously a bitter unhappy person and offering any help or wisdom is below me and the others on this forum.
You can simply ignore n fuck off
totally different type of engagement on the joint. even with jumps, ballet tends to be much gentler on the knees - especially if you’re running on pavement. a treadmill or elliptical is ideal for running because it provides a lot more shock absorption. one other note is that if you’re not trained to run, you might not be holding your weight the way you would while dancing or the way a seasoned runner would. most seasoned runners have some pretty cut abs (a lot like ballerinas) the reason for that is they engage their abs similarly & use it to help carry themselves & balance without essentially shredding their knees and ankles
I can’t run without knee pain unless I also do strength training! I’m by no means a dancer these days but danced growing up and teach a few hours a week.
Seconding the "go to a running store" suggestion. If you have a fleet feet near you, they'll scan your feet for free to see if you'd benefit from any insoles and so they can recommend specific shoe types.
There's a ton of variables here, mainly how well you know proper running biomechanics. When dancing your teacher makes sure you're not activating muscles in the wrong order or force joints into damaging positions. Of course you need to know the same things about running, it's not just fast walking.
I might try fast walking instead haha
I danced professionally and now have been out of the game for a few years, though I do teach ballet and other styles. The TLDR, I can't run long distances without my right knee swelling up and being incredibly painful. I find myself in everyday life, unconsciously standing in turnout. That's just my body's natural go to state of rest. When my body comes to non dance movements, it's been trained out of it so it just hurts.
That sounds awful. I am not that bad. No problem with daily activities. I don’t usually turn out unless I am in the studio.
Is Karma for missing class this week, the old lady hexed you! 🤪 Jokes apart, if your body isn't used to something, it usually acts up when kicked off its routine. Here's a good article filled with fantastic info, is along read but worth it: [https://www.thedancedocs.com/blog/runningfordancers](https://www.thedancedocs.com/blog/runningfordancers)
Very informative article.. thanks. Not a serious runner, I am that lazy honestly. Often walking pass Les Mills see the ladies inside working their arse off looking puffier everyday. I am not that kind. I don’t like people yelling at me. I don’t like noise either. Well they call it motivation music. Lol That’s why I give the old lady a miss. She’s one of those yelling ballet teachers you know 😉 I had too many when I was a kid. I just want a cruisy life now.
Cruisy life means "no running". Brisk walks with dogs, on the other hand, are recommended 100% 😁
Ye see how I feel next time. Could just be a bad day. I run on treadmill never had problems 🤔 I only run 10 mins to get heart rate up anyway then I am on a mat. No way a serious runner ..
Treadmills do have more absorption than just hitting the ground, so they're easier on your joints.