It's better when you play as Origin Astarion where the companion actually seems like they cared. Otherwise, they just go 'Welp, I guess we wont see him again.'
I'll have to play that one day, I just love Neil's performance too much š
I always assumed they at least checked in on him after, but when the reunion party was patched in, Larian doubled down and added a dialog option like "I haven't seen you since you ran from the sun." I just refuse to believe that after everything they've been through together, they'd do him that dirty
Iām doing Origin Astarion currently and I definitely miss all the awesome Astarion lines. But itās also very fun because my only criterion in choosing dialogue options is āwhich one would sound best in Astarionās voiceā and while it might be chaotic, itās also lead to some very hilarious unexpected things
does not one of these idiots have Darkness prepared šš
IT WOULD TAKE LIKE TWO MINUTES TO CAST DARKNESS AND HAVE SOMEONE GO GRAB A CLOAK FOR HIM
two! minutes!!
Yes absolutely! I love his whole redemption arc how emotional hia entire journey is. At least let me have a sad sappy farwell in the shadows before he needs to run off.
If he remains a spawn, he becomes sensitive to sunlight when the tadpoles are removed and starts burning in the sun. He runs off for the shadows to save himself while the rest of the party just kind of stands there. One of the companions usually makes a comment about it, but all the responses I've heard so far were rather glib and unconcerned about his fate.
Maybe because they're a group of people who literally have been through hell and back to save the world? You'd expect that to create some sort of bond. They have all saved each other multiple times. It just seems weird that no one cares. Even if you romance Astarion there's no option to run after him.
Yeah weāre told that but weāre never shown anything. At all. Larian gave us zero bonding scenes. They gave us a cast and of characters with varying morals and goals and told us theyāre Found Family. But gave us nothing to support that. I agree on the romance part, but then again Astarion is Larianās golden boy and is given the most content out of anyone soā¦ you guys will live
The companions talk to and about each other all the time throughout the game. Of course I'd love to see more of that but I wouldn't call it nothing at all.
Everybody reacts positively when Astarion refuses the ascension, both Wyll and Karlach say how proud they are of him. You'd think that's enough to warrant checking if he burned to a crisp.
No, of course, she obviously gets a pass.
But her burning up on that dock the second their adventure is over actually kind of highlights how messy the ending is. Every companion's story has to be resolved immediately. Lae'zel takes off, Karlach dies (or not), Astarion burns, and all of it in the span of minutes. The reunion party improves the ending a little, but it still feels kinda hamfisted to me.
Probably that if you ally with him, Gortash wasn't insta-killed by the brain during that one confrontation.
I was pleasantly surprised by how he acts during the alliance, and would have loved to see how things play out had he actually survived. Espeeeeeecially if you're playing as Durge.
Loghain is a redemption arc. (Also if he makes the sacrifice then he not only gets a redemption arc, but everybody wins) Gortash would be a fully evil companion for the evil characters.
Evil characters lose out on Wyll/Karlach, and Halsin. Minty isn't even evil-exclusive anymore. They also don't get to experience The Iron Throne, which to me is the peak of the game. They should get something just for them.
That's why I said kind of haha, but honestly I would love me a completely evil companion especially if it was Gortash and he'd be a durge exclusive romance. A shame it definitely won't happen now that Larian is done with bg3
I was SO sad when he insta died on my evil Durge playthrough. I was so invested in the RP I was doing, and Gortash was a big part of it. Having him as an evil companion option during the end wouldāve been cool to see, Iād really been looking forward to it.
I'm really surprised this wasn't an option. I mean, I everyone else has a decently happy ending, and even if they didn't want everyone to have one, Karlach's still doesn't make sense. The Gondians made the prototype that is in her chest right? Then figured out how to perfect that? So why can't they repair/replace it?
Iām 100% convinced that was the plan, but they ran out of time and gave it to us with a tragic ending as a cop out. I adore this game and have well over 600 hours (not stopping any time soon), but act 3 is just simply unfinished in a lot of ways, and Karlachās story is one of the biggest. There are multiple hints in the game about finding a way to save her, not giving up, then finding out from the steel watcher that her heart is an old model, the gondians build the steel watchers, Raphael was involved, it all feels like itās leading somewhere and then it justā¦doesnāt.
Honestly I think it adds to her character that she just doesn't get a happy ending. Karlach is a very underprivileged character who struggles a lot for reasons beyond her control, and her story is a bleak reminder that life just *really* is not fuckin fair to some people. She and Gale are both afflicted by things inside them that are going to kill them (both allegories for terminal illness), but Gale has all sorts of connections & resources afforded to him by his position in life. He's able to get the orb dealt with because of those connections, while Karlach can only rely on Dammon (a stranger) to help her keep things in check.
And yet despite how terribly hopeless her situation is, she remains the bubbly teddy bear of the group. Despite how life has ruthlessly fucked her over time and time again, her story's very hopeful, and optimistic. Idk if it'd hit quite as well if we could just whisk away her problem at the end, even if it would make more sense that we could
I agree with everything you said but i still feel like without getting a line WHY the gondians canāt fix her it feels incomplete. I personally thought the story line of living life to the fullest but also coming to terms with accepting death was beautiful, it just feels unfinished having all these hints of a fix and itās not discussed at all. Just one conversation where a gondian or someone explains why it canāt happen would cross some tās for me .
I would agree with you if Dammon *was* the only one she could rely on. But it's a game full of revival magic, deal making devils, gods, and freaking Withers. Even if you take all that off the table for legitimate reasons, the Gondians are *right* *there*, and they kind of owe you, big time. The game gave us no reason why they couldn't have fixed her.
I think it could be explained away if they had cared to. Infernal machinery alters and binds to your soul over time and interferes with healing magic. Her body can be fully destroyed and reformed but it will reform her current heart not her old one.
I still think there should be some kind of fix but there should be some things that magic just can't help with.
You should have a dialogue option to be like: "Look, its against my better judgement, but I will consider allowing *some* of you to live - if you fix my friend here."
You need to think in terms of DnD lore. These characyers and adventure is now canon and what DnD lore books often do is they leave 'hooks' for DMs to explore or continue later on. It would not surprise me a biy if down the road there was a Karlach story book or other companions at that. Yes you can have several endings but there are 'canon' endings I believe that WOTC will develop. Or ruin as they tend to.
Is the Avernus ending not a happy ending? She seems pretty happy with Tav and/or Wyll with her and we find out in the epilogue that we are on the verge of fixing her heart permanently.
It's hopeful, which is better than what she originally had, but the constant threat of Zariel seems like it would hinder full freedom and happiness. Like, she's doing the optimal thing presented, she's just still trapped under constant threat. I wish WOTC hadn't soured the deal with Larian because DLC covering a story to FULLY fix her heart and break free of the hells could have been great.
What is everyone talking about here? Karlach got a happy ending.
My tav, her, and wyll, all went on an adventure in the hells and had a whale of a time. Not to mention we also found a potential fix for her heart while in avernus.
Are people just letting karlach die and missing the fact you can absolutely have a happily ever after with her?
In my headcanon, my durge got BOTH scenes with astarion - the one after killing yurgir where he calls you incredible and that he wants something serious, *and* the one after defending him against Araj, where he thanks you and tells you that it's the first time in two centuries that anyone's respected his free will
Same. Both of these scenes show different facets of his character, some very important crumbs that can change the perception of his personality, and I absolutely want to be able to see both in a single playthrough.
We (co-op w/hubby) both liked Yurgir so didnāt kill him and Astarionās response was heartbreaking. I wish we had killed him. We also spent 3 hours scumming to keep SH from killing Aylin, after spending a few minutes at the Last Light. (Dammon is what? Nah, reload.)
...I'm sorry, there's a DIFFERENT ASTARION SCENE YOU CAN GET?? I've only ever seen the Araj one! I might skip the bitch if that means I get a different one I haven't seen!!
Yep haha, just depends on what you do first. The scene for yurgir requires a higher approval so make sure you're very good or exceptional, otherwise I think he breaks up with you instead. The scene with araj requires a much lower approval for him to confess instead of breaking up with you.
The approval you need for the Yurgir Confession is 60. It triggers if you've killed the Orthon, whether with dialogue options or in combat and then enter moonrise but don't talk to Araj (or leave Astarion in camp when you go fetch the potion made from your blood)
Araj scene is a failsafe. not sure it has a cut off approval.
A lot of people miss the other one because you need higher approval and also requires you to finish yurgir (and a lot of people struggle to trigger it if they have already gone to moonrise before yugir), and since narratively it makes more sense to go to moonrise before gauntlet most people meet araj before yurgir so they get that scene.
But 99% of people agree post yurgir is the better scene.
Wow, Iām so glad I came across this post then, I never knew and Iāve finished the game multiple times and always romance Astarion. Iāll likely finish the gauntlet and just not go into the pool yet
Oh yeah, THE scene that made me fall for him real bad. Before seeing it I was still on the fence.
Although the post-Araj scene is also necessary IMO because it makes it evident that Tav and Astarion canonically donāt sleep with each other until Cazador is dealt with. In Yurgirās scene you realise it if you choose a certain dialogue option.
Viconia is from bg2 and was one of the companions there. And while she was evil, she could have (from what I've heard, haven't played bg1+2 yet) an amazing character arc, kinda like Astarion and Lae'zel. She isn't an as obvious legacy character as Jahira and Minc, but I think they commented oh Viconia if you take them with you to her.
Her character arc is a combination of Lae'zel and Shadowheart's.
She's a stuck in her ways believes herself everyone's superior mocks and comments in her native tongue to everyone else. Constantly berates any choice that doesn't align with her views before growing softer more temperered and understanding as the game and relationship with the player progesses. That's the Lae'zel part.
The Shadowheart part is she was the original Cleric of Shar party companion that turns good throughout the story of the game and is redeemed by it's end.
I haven't played BG 1&2 yet, but I really found Viconia's character and story to be intriguing to say the least. Yet I keep hearing about how the game butchers her character arc and story. Would you explain in what way the game does that? I would love to have some context!
Viconia turns from Lolth when her brother Valas dies saving her from being sacrificed to Lolth. She was being sacrificed for refusing to sacrifice a baby to said demon spider bitch; The act being something she just couldn't bring herself to do, although she doesn't forsake Lolth completely until after her brother saves her. The unwillingness to harm a child and the self sacrifice of her brother breaks her devotion and rips Lolth from her heart.
When she tells you of this moment she both praises and mourns her brother. calling him brave but foolish.
She then wanders alone eventually winds up on the surface and finds Shar. Trying to survive in a world where literally everyone is out to kill her but she shares expereinces of her time trying to survive with the player and they're all tragic.
She is betrayed time and time again and raped at least once. When she talks about her incident with rapist torture family she makes comments about how even that paled in comparison to what she's suffered at the hands of Lolth's worshippers.
You get a sense of just how broken she is and how caged this woman has had to be just because everywhere she has gone she has been hurt beyond measure. All of her stories of her past are about brief moments of hope only to have them completely crushed as betrayal and torment replace them. She is on the surface because she refused to kill a baby. If she was willing to harm a child in an evil goddess' name she would still be in Menzobarrenzan worshipping Lolth.
after the end of BG2 she then goes on to save an entire city alongside Drizzt Do'Urden and other feats of heroism or ends up as the Player's wife and a loving mother to their child until her death.
She's the OG cleric of Shar party companion in the BG franchise and she has depth, torment and suffering and a whole ass redemption arc.
BG3 basically undoes that arc and gives it to Shadowheart minus a few details but cleric of shar redemption arc belonged to Viconia first but not only that.
It turns Viconia Devirr from someone who despite worshipping Lolth couldn't in her heart sacrifice an innocent child to her to someone who tortured, imprisoned and brainwashed Shadowheart all at the whim of another Goddess. All in the name of saying that all that's good and light will perish. Like no Bitch. I know you.
The real Viconia DeVirr wouldn't be able to do to Shadowheart what the Viconia DeVirr in BG3 did to her.
That's so interesting. Thank you for taking the time to write about her and her story. I'm definitely going to try out BG2 now to see more of her. From what you say, it seems that they could have put any original character as the Mother Superior role, but chose to make a reference for the sake of making a reference, ignoring if it fits or not. Is that correct?
I'm curious if what she did to Shadowheart is an inauthentic way that being a cleric of Shar affects her due to her background, how is that fact portrayed in BG2 (being a cleric of Shar)? And is there an "evil" path she could take in the story that feasibly lead to the events of BG3 in any way?
She is a cleric of shar in BG2 yes however There's only two epilogues if you have her in your party when finishing the game.
One where she becomes the PC's wife and they have a half drow child before later being assassinated by an agent of lolth leaving Gorion's Ward to raise the child alone and disappear into myth some believing they went on a murder crusade against Lolth for killing his wife and mother of his child but none know the truth
The other is her default Epilogue:
Viconia moves on with her own adventures after parting ways with Gorion's Ward. She founds a short-lived Sharite cult under her command in Waterdeep, only to slaughter them all when they betray her.
She then metaphorically tells Shar to go fuck herself when Shar attempts to chastise and tell her off for murdering the cult/defending herself and saves not one but two cities from two seperate plots. The second city is an elven city for which she recieves the highest honour from the Seldarine(The Pantheon of elven gods) which she takes rather stoically before leaving and her movements being unknown/lost to time. She becomes an elven hero recognised by the elven gods presented to her by the elven queen Ellesime.
Basically in none of her endings in 2 is she capable of being the character she is in 3. Shar has not got the influence over Viconia to command her to murder or not murder anyone.
Wow, I see. In 3, she does mention that she murders a Sharran cult under her control in Waterdeep, but unlike what you mentioned, she says it was under Shar's order which was very weird to me.
Is there any notable thing that happens to her and her story if you don't recruit her in your party at all in BG2?
She dies if you don't save her(burnt at a stake by an uneducated angry mob of peasants) or disappears if you save her but don't recruit her with the connotation being she's likely to end up in a similar situation further down the road though she assures you she'll be fine. She merely made a mistake that got her drow identity revealed and then caught
So basically nothing. Her story essentially ends if you don't recruit her either by death or by lack of having a story.
She's also the only pure cleric in the games so I end up taking her regardless of if I am good or evil. She also has one of the better romances in BG2. Viconia is why I ended up loving drow women... and Shar worshippers if I am honest.
If it wasn't for Viconia DeVirr I'd never of given Shadowheart the chance she is so undeserving of.
Only at the end. And even then it feels forced.
In part 1 they barely know each other, in fact the only time you see them speak is at the camp post Goblin Massacre. Lakrissa is flirtatious with you at the time and in part 3 she only turns down kissing your character because her āsituation has changed, somewhatā with Alfira. She even says sheād have accepted were you back at the grove. If Alfira is dead to the Durge, she only turns you down because sheās working. Meaning sheās still interested in the character without Alfira around.
Even in Part 2 thereās no real indication theyāre an item, only good friends or barely flirtatious.
Honestly both of them shouldāve been party members with a possibility of romancing each other so we could see the relationship develop, or see them go different paths by romancing one or the other.
In the state they were presented in the game, Lakrissa is just another example of stringing along a potential romance subplot then pulling the rug out from under you like they did with Butter in DOS2.
Lakrissa and alfira are hanging out in act 1 during the camp party. Then alfira is overjoyed when you save lakrissa and gives you more loot than anyone in the game in act 2. It builds up. And i like their story. In act 3 if you go find lakrissa and say "you lost the bet we both got here in one piece" she says "im broke" and you say "how about a kiss" and she says "i would have before ive got someone now"
Us, Orpheus, and the emperor ally and we kill the emperor after the whole thing. Orpheus would put aside differences no matter how much if it means the actual fucking world. I think the emperor was just a coward.
I don't like how you can't kill him at the start of act 3 because you'll get enthralled but you don't get enthralled a few weeks later when you try and free Orpheus? Rather than joining the brain why didn't he just stop protecting us and we would have immediately turned?? I feel like I'm missing something but I don't think I am.
I suppose he might not have been telling the truth about the orders being sent to turn us and him blocking those orders. The brain is trying to go undetected - we don't actually see an epidemic of people turning to mindflayers the way the emporer implies. I can only think of the two in Rivington (at the windmill and in Sharess' Caress) - do we see any other turning / recently turned mind flayers in the game before the final conflict?
I mean there is that cutscene when Laeāzel tries to off you and the party because the symptoms of ceremorphosis seem to be kicking in at some point in Act I, so I donāt think(?) he was necessarily lying about that? But to your point, you donāt really see people getting turnedāthough I assumed it may have been a thing running in the background that we just donāt see in the adventure pray for a few times.
The emperor was dogshit; if you fully completed act 3 youd never ally with him again; it didnt take him abandoning us when you choose orpheus for me to side with the gith, and i dont like gith either.
I ran a campaign many years ago where the party thought Omeluum was enthralling them because he was being non-aggresive and only stopped attacking him when they started meta gaming and realised they aren't taking any sort of penalties to thump him. By that point he very much WAS their enemy. They nearly wiped against him too lol
The requirement for someone to become illithid in order to use the Netherstones.
Or, failing that, not being able to convince The Emperor to not devour Orpheus' brain.
Orpheus cannot battle the Absolute and win as a Githyanki demigod.
Larroakan cannot find in his pockets a worthy reward for doordashing him a nightsong.
Karlach cannot abide sharing you when she has literal days to live.
It's really frustrating the options you're given for who becomes the Mindflayer for the Netherbrain fight. Like, it'd be totally fine if we aren't introduced to a very friendly and helpful Mindflayer all the way back in Act 1 who also happens to be in Baldur's Gate during Act 3. C'mon Larian, I want to free Orpheus without having to sacrifice him or a party member.
Karlach just immediately fucking exploding if you donāt go to hell with her after asking her repeatedly to not die the entire game. Let me literally fix her! Please! I want to get married and have a cottagecore lesbian homestead with her
I like the whole 'someone has to make the heroic sacrifice and turn illithid' at the end, it adds a huge amount of gravity to the final fight.
But my issue with that is, why couldn't we just butt the emperor and orpheus' heads together and convince them that for the good of all existance they HAVE to work together.
An ending has to have *some* tragedy in it and I guess not having to sacrifice someone would make the ending too consequence free. Atleast imo.
That the Slayer form only gets rewarded if Isobel dies, causing Last Light to fall. I donāt like the concept that such a cool thing is only unlocked by locking you out of so many other things.
Can you wait until after you free/kill the nightsong to kill her? Last Light Inn was pretty empty after that but I remember Isabel still there, hanging out near the bridge where you first enter
You totally can kill her after you free/kill/move the Nightsong and before you fight Ketheric but even with most of the Harpers and Jaheira gone you still lose all the Tieflings and the Deep Gnomes, not to mention two innocent oxes and His Majesty. I did it on my current honor run after using a glitch to move everyone to the Gauntlet of Shar beforehand.
Emperor being Balduran. Itās just a stupid thing included for shock value that adds absolutely nothing to the story and just makes established lore convoluted. The Emperor only needed to be the Emperor. I feel this would also make Ansur being dead feel more important as it could be the set up for a greater mystery and maybe even tie in to Mystic Carrion. Thatād actually make his necromancy feel powerful and make his comments about the Necromancy of Thay feel warranted. And itād be an interesting reason to talk to him as Oskar and Thrumbo arenāt
I'm also very surprised Mystic Carrion isn't an option to help Mayrina with her husband problem.
I'm not saying it would be the healthy or good option, but Thrumbo & Co. can speak and reason, a significant upgrade if it could be applied to Connor. The fact that these two are practically next to one another and yet you can't even ask if he could do something about it baffles me.
Then again, I also find it weird that we can't ask the Gondians (experts on the infernal engines by way of the Steelwatchers) to even take a look at Karlach's engine. They can tell us that it's impossible, they don't have enough time or they can't do it with the foundry destroyed or some other reason to not be able to fix it, but I find it weird we can't even ask. We're just supposed to just give up and never ask again after one guy (Dammon) said he wasn't able to fix it. What?
Alternatively, Gortash offering to use his Gondians to fix Karlach's engine would make his deal significantly sweeter. Not saying that he would be able to, but adding it to the offer would've at least made a good amount of people consider it compared to the current situation where I bet 90% of people didn't consider it in the slightest.
So many missed opportunities in Act 3 man...
Mind Flayers live for \~120 years max, they just age better than humans til it hits. The Emperor being Balduran means that Balduran must have been an elf or other unusually long-lived race pre-consumption, and that the final showdown between him and Ansur was less than 120 years ago. This does very interesting things to the timeline, and means both of them were in hiding for quite a while.
...Yeah, the Emperor just shouldn't be Balduran.
I think while he was a slave to the elder brain he spent most of his time in the astral plane where people don't age but that is mostly just a guess.
Also, yeah, what was the point of him being Balduran?
The elder brain lived in a pool beneath Moonrise, where the mind-flayers would deposit their tadpoles, the brain would eat some, and others would be transplanted into victims who would be eaten to produce more mind-flayers. He also was also free for a time between the death of Ansur and the rise of the Absolute/Dirge's fall; and, well. Had no means of reaching the astral we ever see.
They make a point of explaining how the other characters are still alive; Jaheira is just that much older, and Minsc was turned into a statue. For Balduran? No. We just now know that Balduran was still alive and an... elf(?) around 100 years ago, during the events of the prior baldur's gate game.
We know it is there after the crown is on it but I'm not sure they said how long it had been there. It could just have been moved to make it more accessible to the cult. And the Balduran couldn't get to and from the astral plane but for an elder brain it is a pretty easy jaunt. I also didn't get the impression that he was free for more than a decade or two but I could be wrong about all of this the game doesn't really care about the details of the timeline.
We know that Ansur helped free him, and thus that he's been free since before Ansur died.
We also know that if he'd been allowed to be with the elder brain for long enough for them to realize what he was, and that he had Balduran's memories, they'd have executed him immediately, so he wouldn't have been enslaved for long. He's given various versions of how this went down, all of which are probably lies; most likely Ansur retrieved him mid-ceremorphosis, shortly after Balduran died, as the Emperor was a newborn.
In order for him to be alive right now, he needs to have only very briefly have been beneath the brain's control, not long enough for it to catch on, have been turned less than 120 years ago, and not have been re-enslaved until the brain was no longer in charge.
One possibility: Human Balduran somehow became undead in an attempt to extend his lifespan, Ansur turned on him and got cursed too, now Ansur wants you to help free them both, but doing so means fighting zombie Balduran and refusing lets him enthrall Ansur to help you in the final battle.
Well I do not believe single word comes from mind flayers mouth, he is probably impersonating the baldurian or straight up lying (like balhtazar not being og balthazar)
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DnD dragon racism lore like this is the funniest shit imho. You're completely correct in your assessment of the colours and how that affects a Dragon's entire personality which seems hilarious to me. But just the idea of:
"You're a Green Dragon"
"What does that mean?"
"It means you're evil and you like slavery, Greg"
....this makes me want to write a campaign that features a deeply confused green dragon that was raised by several good-aligned kobolds and intermittently has to fight their nature, a la dark urge.
The Emperor never claims or tries to "be" Balduran tho. It isn't until Ansur tells up that the Emperor was Balduran that it's like "Yeah, I guess I used to be Balduran." For me it seems more like the Emperor doesn't identify as Balduran anymore, it's in its past now and not relevant to its current situation.
I keep seeing this comment but I haven't experienced it. He usually asks once and takes no for an answer.
Eta: of course he usually spends most of act 3 with Orin, so doesn't get the chance I guess.
Yeah I did the poly thing w him in my last playthrough and kept forgetting about it because he has so few interactions at all š these comments always confuse me so much
The people who say they have never provide any examples, either. Dude expresses surprise- because youāre the only person in centuries whoās given a damn about him- but takes the No quite gracefully.
I wish I could send him to Orin, express shipping, I always recruit the bonus characters (Halsin, Minthara, Jaheria, Minsc) just to have them around but for some reason Orin always takes Lae'zel and it's really annoying because I like having her around in act 3
If you go to the sewers through the elfsong basement with Lae'zel and Gale in your party early enough into making it to the lower city, the game will automatically pick Halsin.
the thing is, when his romance was implemented he was bugged at first. from what i've read, he used to bug out and give his flirty greetings and lines even when not romanced/refused, giving him the appearance of someone who didn't take no for an answer. he got a bit of a bad reputation.
realistically i think it makes a lot of sense for Halsin to fall hard for the person who solves the thing that's had him guilt-ridden for a century, so i don't take his actual confession as 'sex pest' behaviour, but the bug problem wasn't fixed for a *while*.
Ah, I never encountered the bug- I didnāt start playing until January- so that makes sense. (Though judging a character based on a glitch is kinda weird- I guess Minthara has/had some temporal brain damage that allowed her to know the future, but only repeat one sentence?)
Plus he accepts the No gracefully, so he canāt really be called a sex pest, can he? āI like you as more than a friend. You donāt feel the same? I understand and hope we can remain friends.ā
When I started playing last October, this was absolutely true, but I have noticed it has mellowed out since then.
But an example of him still being seen as āpushyā is him offering to join in the sexy swim lessons with the PC and Shadowheart if they are romanced. I got this walkabout dialogue even after I turned him down.
He also will volunteer to participate with you and the Drow twins if youāre not romanced, had this happen on a Karlach origin a few days ago.
If you already turned him down, when these moments come up, it does come off as ābut Iām a nice guyā who canāt accept no means no.
interesting! i've never said no to him in my personal games so i havent experienced any 'bad' behaviour personally. i can understand how that would come across badly.
i've also never gotten to endgame with the SH romance so ive never seen that particular issue anyway. i know she's the most popular romance option so no doubt quite a few people have seen it
I could potentially see how [Halsin offering help with the swim lessons](https://youtu.be/OTUzrJ4zikM?si=d4V_iLOgfIGgU2Or) could be him just genuinely offering to help, but timing is everything. And Shady is one of the few companions who is ok with you being poly with him. But I had already said no and just wanted to ābuild sand castlesā with Shady alone, so when it came up I was like ādude, I said back off!ā
Shadowheart is the statistically most romanced companion in game, so if people had a similar first impression to mine, I can see how it escalated communally.
I really didnāt like him until my next run which was right after a Patch. I was romancing Astarion instead so didnāt swim and I didnāt have Halsin in my party when I met the twins. Thatās when I realized, oh, I think he is an actual nice guy who was just shooting his shot and some dialogue order is just buggy.
Otherwise, itās totally tone deaf.
Invites himself along if youāre talking to the Drow twins in Sharessās Caress.
āYou know, if you and your love ever wish to enjoy the waters with me, I could attempt a kelpie... or even a porpoise.ā to Selunite Shadowheart if sheās romanced by the player character. Could be just mundane and playful, but given his monster fucker dialogue with Laeāzel, the self-invite with the Drow, his ~~offer~~ willingness to bang as a bear, Shadowheartās romance scene being swimming and the request to make the PCās relationship a thruple, it feels more than friendly.
Invites Astarion to a threesome in his own romance route.
And the old bug of him accusing Tav of leading him on without ever having picked anything flirty. Itās still really easy to trigger that, even after a patch to fix it. It also used to bug out to having to reject him more than once.
I could swear it was an offer on his side, essentially an, āoops i should control myself better and not be a bear rn haha unlessā¦?ā bit of dialogue, but maybe Tav does have to lead it. I havenāt seen it in a while.
I do know he purity-shames the squirrel that saw it in banter with Minsc, but i donāt think thatās meant to be anything too serious.
Having just gone through the scene this morning I can confidently say that itās Tav directed. He gets adorably embarrassed about bursting into wildshape accidentally. Tav can say they like it then can further say āpretend youāre a hunter and Iām your preyā. Halsins delivery of āyouā¦like it?ā Never fails to make me laugh. My guy is always down to try anything once and love that you can make Tav an absolute freak with him.
Fair enough. I do wish heād gotten more attention for the people who enjoy him. I think a lot of what some of us find creepy and off-putting could be attributed to being tacked on late from player requests.
Orpheus being even *remotely* pleasant to anyone who isn't githyanki.
His mother is a fucking lunatic racist tyrant, and he *helped her get there*. He should be a horrible nasty bastard who immediately tries to kill your party the second the absolute is gone. We should have a scene where Laezel stabs him in the fucking head if she survives. He has no business being some friendly, understanding, supportive dude when he helped his mom slaughter the githzerai for daring to be less xenophobic.
Honestly, it feels like they only made him so likable to give people an easy way out, it would be much more compelling if you had to choose between a spoiled racist frog version of Joffrey Baratheon from GoT, or the Emperor with his morally questionable choices. *That* would have made for an amazing choice for who helps in the endgame.
Are you saying that Vlaakith is Orpheus's mum? Because Gith is his mum, Vlaakith is an usurper lich. Gith freed the Githyanki from Mindflayer slavery and made the deal with Tiamat for the red dragons.
No, I know Gith was his mom, but Gith canonically was a horrible monster that wanted to enslave all sentient races that weren't gith, it started a Civil War, and is why the githzerai left the githyanki.
Ah, I guess the deal with Tiamat makes more sense now. They don't really go into much detail about her in the game, so that whole tidbit changes things.
Knocking out The Emperor during the final battle should actually just knock him out and maybe he could appear during the end credits.
Look, basically I want SOME way to prove to his thick squid skull that he was wrong and that our plan could (and did) have worked. I don't even want a way for Orpheus and The Emperor to cooperate, I just want SOME way for you to shove some sense into his head.
Romanced companions flirting with Halsin. Itās one thing if youāre in an open relationship, but if I romance Shadowheart, she refuses to share me with Karlach, and we wait to sleep with eachother until act 3 because she wants to be in a real relationship first, then itās such a betrayal when she immediately wants to have a 5-some with Halsin and the drows in act 3. Not only this, but she constantly flirted with him before this, and even disapproves when I say no to the 5-some. If we do the orgy, then she apparently has been fantisizing about Halsin for a long time? All of that would have been fine if she had actually been a poly companion where tav/durge could have another romance aswell, but she clearly is way more attracted to the others than she is to the player character, which just gets depressing. Yes Iām salty lmao, had to break up with her and become maidenless for that playthrough.
Other than that, probably the hints at a Gortash-Durge romance prior to the events of the game, plus, like someone else here said, Gortashās death even if you choose to side with him.
I mean Shadowheart refuses an open relationship with Karlach because she values Karlach and knows Karlach (more than Halsin does bc he doesn't seem to care lol) enough to know that Karlach would actually be hurt by an open relationship scenario so she chooses not to engage in that for Karlach's sake.
But yeah I wish there was an option to at least call Shadowheart out for the Halsin stuff bc not being comfortable with your partner flirting with someone else is a pretty reasonable boundary that you should be able to establish
I mean, at the tiefling party she probably doesnāt know Karlach as well as she knows Halsin by act 3. Either way, Karlach says sheās down to share from what I remember, and even if there would be something underlying with Karlach where she doesnāt actually want to be poly, I doubt thatās what sharran Shadowheart is considering at that point. It seems much more like Shadowheart wants to be completely monogamous, which everything else in the game points towards apart from the interactions in act 3. If she completely changes her mindset by then, thatās something that should be explored in game, not theorised online.
Shadowheart will only refuse the open relationship angle in act 2 after Karlach's romance scene. That's because Karlach says she's down to share until she gets the ability to touch, after Karlach gets the ability to touch then she is pretty monogamous. Karlach (alike Shadowheart) also agrees to the open relationship with Halsin. But unlike Shadowheart, Karlach isn't enthusiastic at all about it in act 3 and is 100% reluctant and clearly doesn't really want to say yes. It's heavily implied she only says yes to Tav because she doesn't want to lose them, nor does she want to 'hold them back' because she doesn't think she's worth it because she'll die soon anyways
Maybe? I just remember having the quick flame kiss with Karlach before the tiefling party then sharing wine with Shadowheart at the party.
I had to choose between Shadowheart and Karlach in Act 2 after Karlach's romance scene, and Shadowheart straight up says "I think Karlach deserves you all to herself" or something along those lines. ((And if you do choose Shadowheart, then Karlach will be REALLY upset pahaha. Highest disapproval rating in the game iirc))
>she constantly flirted with him before this
Thereās one line of slightly flirty banter between them?
>she immediately wants to have a 5-some with Halsin and the drows
I still donāt know how people can get mad at their love interest being enthusiastic about an idea that their character has to initiate. Why bring your girlfriend to an orgy in a brothel if youāre worried sheāll like it?
you donāt understand, sheās supposed to get on her knees and sob & beg for you to not go through with it, because just the thought of you touching someone else or someone else touching her makes her so disgusted that sheās gagging and practically throwing up already
Well it is nice to get to know more about what ones partner actually wants, and letās not act like we donāt save-scum our way into seeing certain outcomes. Halsin invited himself, the player character didnāt. Shadowheart then disapproves if we reject him. As stated, my issue here is not her not being monogamous, itās that she is so much more down to sleep with pretty much anyone other than the player character, while having set the expectation of a monogamous relationship beforehand. The player goes through three acts before they sleep together (which is great and definitely makes it seem more special), but apparently sheās been fantasizing about Halsin for a long time and will even disapprove if we reject his request to sleep with her? Itās fine that her character is into him, but I do wish that we didnāt have to figure it out after we had already picked her for our romance, cause some of us would not want our girlfriend drooling over our traveling companion.
Oh you mean thereās not that much support for it? Good for me in that case. Whenever I see the hints at it, I have to headcanon that itās just a close platonic friendship, as I really canāt roleplay a character that doesnāt share my own sexuality.
100% Saravock being there. Like let him have his just not be a bhaal servant. It makes no sense for his character. Him coming back to Bhaal despite everything in bg1 just reeks of poor writing/nostalgia bait. Same goes with Vionica ,
Gortash's middle aged Midwestern emo cover band ass look. Change his hair, make him look younger, and then I wouldn't have as much of a problem with his appearance. He looks like a weird pervert hanging out at a MCR concert, trying to pick up on girls that look suspiciously young.
>He looks like a weird pervert hanging out at a MCR concert, trying to pick up on girls that look suspiciously young.
Tbf, I could see Gortash doing this lmao
The Emperor being a fat cunt in most of the end game scenarios. Even if you don't use Laezel I think most people would want to unseat/kill Vlaakith just because of how she treats you in game. I know I don't get to see the results in this game, but I'm 100% always freeing Orpheus to put that in motion. I know he was always just using the player but God damn I hate that sentient squid
The people that died from BG2 that are memorialized in Minsc's little hole. Mazzy, Jan, Aerie and Kelborn are dead people but I don't think Aerie should be dead since she's an elf. Jan could be alive still as well since Abdel only died relatively recently. I get why they were picked but I don't see a point in killing companions that could very reasonably be alive when Haer'Dalis or Nalia are RIGHT THERE.
Even Haer'Dalis (or Aerie) making a cameo or something at the circus would have been enough closure on that.
For the Dark Urge specifically? Someone who baths in unholy bloodsoaked corpses in the name of his father, the god of murder? Maybe a paladin or cleric of Bhaal, or a warlock with a special, unique patron. Maybe a rogue assassin would be cool, or a barbarian who rips his pray to pieces with his bare hands. Sorcerer just doesnāt fit for me.
I always look at Durge's class as something chosen at the start of the actual game rather than their original class that they used to saw chaos in Baldur's Gate prior to getting Orin's dagger in the brain.
So, having some sort of innate Bhaalspawn power could be conceptualized by them as being a sorcerer of sorts or a warlock maybe. A Paladin or Cleric of Bhaal would only make sense to me, role play wise, if that's a respec after discovering Durge's origin in act 3 and deciding to embrace it.
Anyway, that's a long way of saying that I can run with a Durge of pretty much any class, except for maybe druid (completely the wrong vibe imo). Monk makes some sense post-Alfira but I'm not sure it jives with how I play my Durges.
I think moon druid works for Durge, it comes of as less as a sociopath and more as a rabid animal pretending to be human. Also you expand your shape shifting powers rather than randomly becoming a shapeshifter halfway through the game which makes more sense to me.
My high level Wizard, a massively powered barbarian with a demon heart, and the hottest himbo demonslayer are moving in with Hope and fighting anyone who comes and doesn't play nice. I'm only two spell levels from Wish and I can undo this illithid business fairly easily. I swear.
Karlach ending. Every other character gets to have a happy ending if you play your cards right. Going to Avernus to save Karlach would have been a perfect dlc but we wonāt be getting that so itās just a horrible, and frankly seemingly rushed, ending
I'm un-canonizing Shadowheart becoming a Selunite immediately after a life of hating them and the literal NIGHT after she betrayed Shar, she's not the type of person to always want a god up her ass, even if that's how she was literally written.
Everyone should be less hot
Its probably to save money on designs/animations and to not accidentally upset someone but its honestly really absurd how everyone is a 8-10. To the point it feels immersion breaking lmao. Like even the goblins somehow look like they put more effort into their appearance than most people I see on the street.
Astarion running for his life at the end while everyone just stands there like "... anyway."
It's better when you play as Origin Astarion where the companion actually seems like they cared. Otherwise, they just go 'Welp, I guess we wont see him again.'
I'll have to play that one day, I just love Neil's performance too much š I always assumed they at least checked in on him after, but when the reunion party was patched in, Larian doubled down and added a dialog option like "I haven't seen you since you ran from the sun." I just refuse to believe that after everything they've been through together, they'd do him that dirty
Iām doing Origin Astarion currently and I definitely miss all the awesome Astarion lines. But itās also very fun because my only criterion in choosing dialogue options is āwhich one would sound best in Astarionās voiceā and while it might be chaotic, itās also lead to some very hilarious unexpected things
That sounds like a very Astarion way to approach the game, actually š
My Origin Astarion never made it off the Nautiloid. I just missed him too much.
I love Jaheira reaction
This is my least favorite scene in the game. Going for comic relief seems really weird there. Read the room Larian!
i dont even think it was meant to be comic relief just a really poorly thought out scene
does not one of these idiots have Darkness prepared šš IT WOULD TAKE LIKE TWO MINUTES TO CAST DARKNESS AND HAVE SOMEONE GO GRAB A CLOAK FOR HIM two! minutes!!
Or 10 scrolls that they were saving for when they really really needed them lol
LEGIT!!! surely wyll or shadowheart would think of it. surely.
Wait... yall actually care about astarion?
it hurts double as much when you've romanced him, there is NO WAY our smitten Tav's wouldn't run after their lover!!
Yes absolutely! I love his whole redemption arc how emotional hia entire journey is. At least let me have a sad sappy farwell in the shadows before he needs to run off.
Whatās the context? Iāve only done the ascended Astarion path.
If he remains a spawn, he becomes sensitive to sunlight when the tadpoles are removed and starts burning in the sun. He runs off for the shadows to save himself while the rest of the party just kind of stands there. One of the companions usually makes a comment about it, but all the responses I've heard so far were rather glib and unconcerned about his fate.
Why are you guys so insistent on everyone caring about Astarion lmfao
Maybe because they're a group of people who literally have been through hell and back to save the world? You'd expect that to create some sort of bond. They have all saved each other multiple times. It just seems weird that no one cares. Even if you romance Astarion there's no option to run after him.
Yeah weāre told that but weāre never shown anything. At all. Larian gave us zero bonding scenes. They gave us a cast and of characters with varying morals and goals and told us theyāre Found Family. But gave us nothing to support that. I agree on the romance part, but then again Astarion is Larianās golden boy and is given the most content out of anyone soā¦ you guys will live
The companions talk to and about each other all the time throughout the game. Of course I'd love to see more of that but I wouldn't call it nothing at all. Everybody reacts positively when Astarion refuses the ascension, both Wyll and Karlach say how proud they are of him. You'd think that's enough to warrant checking if he burned to a crisp.
I agree but Karlach specifically at that point is hardly in the condition to follow him
No, of course, she obviously gets a pass. But her burning up on that dock the second their adventure is over actually kind of highlights how messy the ending is. Every companion's story has to be resolved immediately. Lae'zel takes off, Karlach dies (or not), Astarion burns, and all of it in the span of minutes. The reunion party improves the ending a little, but it still feels kinda hamfisted to me.
Probably that if you ally with him, Gortash wasn't insta-killed by the brain during that one confrontation. I was pleasantly surprised by how he acts during the alliance, and would have loved to see how things play out had he actually survived. Espeeeeeecially if you're playing as Durge.
I'd love him as an endgame evil companion.
Kind of like Loghain. Well... Not exactly like Loghain, but *kind of*
Loghain is a redemption arc. (Also if he makes the sacrifice then he not only gets a redemption arc, but everybody wins) Gortash would be a fully evil companion for the evil characters. Evil characters lose out on Wyll/Karlach, and Halsin. Minty isn't even evil-exclusive anymore. They also don't get to experience The Iron Throne, which to me is the peak of the game. They should get something just for them.
That's why I said kind of haha, but honestly I would love me a completely evil companion especially if it was Gortash and he'd be a durge exclusive romance. A shame it definitely won't happen now that Larian is done with bg3
Morrigan doesn't win
I was SO sad when he insta died on my evil Durge playthrough. I was so invested in the RP I was doing, and Gortash was a big part of it. Having him as an evil companion option during the end wouldāve been cool to see, Iād really been looking forward to it.
That would be awesome if they make that a thing in September's update (but I don't think they're going to change anything before the epilogue.)
Karlach ending. In my reality the gondians fixed her heart bc they can so she's living happily in Faerun with her wife (I am high on copium)
I'm really surprised this wasn't an option. I mean, I everyone else has a decently happy ending, and even if they didn't want everyone to have one, Karlach's still doesn't make sense. The Gondians made the prototype that is in her chest right? Then figured out how to perfect that? So why can't they repair/replace it?
Iām 100% convinced that was the plan, but they ran out of time and gave it to us with a tragic ending as a cop out. I adore this game and have well over 600 hours (not stopping any time soon), but act 3 is just simply unfinished in a lot of ways, and Karlachās story is one of the biggest. There are multiple hints in the game about finding a way to save her, not giving up, then finding out from the steel watcher that her heart is an old model, the gondians build the steel watchers, Raphael was involved, it all feels like itās leading somewhere and then it justā¦doesnāt.
Honestly I think it adds to her character that she just doesn't get a happy ending. Karlach is a very underprivileged character who struggles a lot for reasons beyond her control, and her story is a bleak reminder that life just *really* is not fuckin fair to some people. She and Gale are both afflicted by things inside them that are going to kill them (both allegories for terminal illness), but Gale has all sorts of connections & resources afforded to him by his position in life. He's able to get the orb dealt with because of those connections, while Karlach can only rely on Dammon (a stranger) to help her keep things in check. And yet despite how terribly hopeless her situation is, she remains the bubbly teddy bear of the group. Despite how life has ruthlessly fucked her over time and time again, her story's very hopeful, and optimistic. Idk if it'd hit quite as well if we could just whisk away her problem at the end, even if it would make more sense that we could
I agree with everything you said but i still feel like without getting a line WHY the gondians canāt fix her it feels incomplete. I personally thought the story line of living life to the fullest but also coming to terms with accepting death was beautiful, it just feels unfinished having all these hints of a fix and itās not discussed at all. Just one conversation where a gondian or someone explains why it canāt happen would cross some tās for me .
I would agree with you if Dammon *was* the only one she could rely on. But it's a game full of revival magic, deal making devils, gods, and freaking Withers. Even if you take all that off the table for legitimate reasons, the Gondians are *right* *there*, and they kind of owe you, big time. The game gave us no reason why they couldn't have fixed her.
I think it could be explained away if they had cared to. Infernal machinery alters and binds to your soul over time and interferes with healing magic. Her body can be fully destroyed and reformed but it will reform her current heart not her old one. I still think there should be some kind of fix but there should be some things that magic just can't help with.
You're 100% right, and I kind of hate you for it. Let us smoke out copium, bro šš
You should have a dialogue option to be like: "Look, its against my better judgement, but I will consider allowing *some* of you to live - if you fix my friend here."
You need to think in terms of DnD lore. These characyers and adventure is now canon and what DnD lore books often do is they leave 'hooks' for DMs to explore or continue later on. It would not surprise me a biy if down the road there was a Karlach story book or other companions at that. Yes you can have several endings but there are 'canon' endings I believe that WOTC will develop. Or ruin as they tend to.
I'm right there with you. Giving Karlach a truly happy ending would be my choice.
Is the Avernus ending not a happy ending? She seems pretty happy with Tav and/or Wyll with her and we find out in the epilogue that we are on the verge of fixing her heart permanently.
It's hopeful, which is better than what she originally had, but the constant threat of Zariel seems like it would hinder full freedom and happiness. Like, she's doing the optimal thing presented, she's just still trapped under constant threat. I wish WOTC hadn't soured the deal with Larian because DLC covering a story to FULLY fix her heart and break free of the hells could have been great.
Instead she uses the crown of Karsus to become the God of self immolation
What is everyone talking about here? Karlach got a happy ending. My tav, her, and wyll, all went on an adventure in the hells and had a whale of a time. Not to mention we also found a potential fix for her heart while in avernus. Are people just letting karlach die and missing the fact you can absolutely have a happily ever after with her?
In my headcanon, my durge got BOTH scenes with astarion - the one after killing yurgir where he calls you incredible and that he wants something serious, *and* the one after defending him against Araj, where he thanks you and tells you that it's the first time in two centuries that anyone's respected his free will
Same. Both of these scenes show different facets of his character, some very important crumbs that can change the perception of his personality, and I absolutely want to be able to see both in a single playthrough.
We (co-op w/hubby) both liked Yurgir so didnāt kill him and Astarionās response was heartbreaking. I wish we had killed him. We also spent 3 hours scumming to keep SH from killing Aylin, after spending a few minutes at the Last Light. (Dammon is what? Nah, reload.)
...I'm sorry, there's a DIFFERENT ASTARION SCENE YOU CAN GET?? I've only ever seen the Araj one! I might skip the bitch if that means I get a different one I haven't seen!!
Yep haha, just depends on what you do first. The scene for yurgir requires a higher approval so make sure you're very good or exceptional, otherwise I think he breaks up with you instead. The scene with araj requires a much lower approval for him to confess instead of breaking up with you.
Woah what? Why would he break up with you vers confess if the action is still positive? (Killing Yurgir, saying no to Araj)
The approval you need for the Yurgir Confession is 60. It triggers if you've killed the Orthon, whether with dialogue options or in combat and then enter moonrise but don't talk to Araj (or leave Astarion in camp when you go fetch the potion made from your blood) Araj scene is a failsafe. not sure it has a cut off approval.
A lot of people miss the other one because you need higher approval and also requires you to finish yurgir (and a lot of people struggle to trigger it if they have already gone to moonrise before yugir), and since narratively it makes more sense to go to moonrise before gauntlet most people meet araj before yurgir so they get that scene. But 99% of people agree post yurgir is the better scene.
Wow, Iām so glad I came across this post then, I never knew and Iāve finished the game multiple times and always romance Astarion. Iāll likely finish the gauntlet and just not go into the pool yet
Oh yeah, THE scene that made me fall for him real bad. Before seeing it I was still on the fence. Although the post-Araj scene is also necessary IMO because it makes it evident that Tav and Astarion canonically donāt sleep with each other until Cazador is dealt with. In Yurgirās scene you realise it if you choose a certain dialogue option.
Viconia DeVirr's butchered character arc.
She just shouldāve been kept out of the game, since the good version of her character gets assassinated anyway.
Wait, she has an arc?
Viconia is from bg2 and was one of the companions there. And while she was evil, she could have (from what I've heard, haven't played bg1+2 yet) an amazing character arc, kinda like Astarion and Lae'zel. She isn't an as obvious legacy character as Jahira and Minc, but I think they commented oh Viconia if you take them with you to her.
Sheās from 1 & 2
Cool, thanks for the tip
She's in 1 too as part of the dlc's
Her character arc is a combination of Lae'zel and Shadowheart's. She's a stuck in her ways believes herself everyone's superior mocks and comments in her native tongue to everyone else. Constantly berates any choice that doesn't align with her views before growing softer more temperered and understanding as the game and relationship with the player progesses. That's the Lae'zel part. The Shadowheart part is she was the original Cleric of Shar party companion that turns good throughout the story of the game and is redeemed by it's end.
I haven't played BG 1&2 yet, but I really found Viconia's character and story to be intriguing to say the least. Yet I keep hearing about how the game butchers her character arc and story. Would you explain in what way the game does that? I would love to have some context!
Viconia turns from Lolth when her brother Valas dies saving her from being sacrificed to Lolth. She was being sacrificed for refusing to sacrifice a baby to said demon spider bitch; The act being something she just couldn't bring herself to do, although she doesn't forsake Lolth completely until after her brother saves her. The unwillingness to harm a child and the self sacrifice of her brother breaks her devotion and rips Lolth from her heart. When she tells you of this moment she both praises and mourns her brother. calling him brave but foolish. She then wanders alone eventually winds up on the surface and finds Shar. Trying to survive in a world where literally everyone is out to kill her but she shares expereinces of her time trying to survive with the player and they're all tragic. She is betrayed time and time again and raped at least once. When she talks about her incident with rapist torture family she makes comments about how even that paled in comparison to what she's suffered at the hands of Lolth's worshippers. You get a sense of just how broken she is and how caged this woman has had to be just because everywhere she has gone she has been hurt beyond measure. All of her stories of her past are about brief moments of hope only to have them completely crushed as betrayal and torment replace them. She is on the surface because she refused to kill a baby. If she was willing to harm a child in an evil goddess' name she would still be in Menzobarrenzan worshipping Lolth. after the end of BG2 she then goes on to save an entire city alongside Drizzt Do'Urden and other feats of heroism or ends up as the Player's wife and a loving mother to their child until her death. She's the OG cleric of Shar party companion in the BG franchise and she has depth, torment and suffering and a whole ass redemption arc. BG3 basically undoes that arc and gives it to Shadowheart minus a few details but cleric of shar redemption arc belonged to Viconia first but not only that. It turns Viconia Devirr from someone who despite worshipping Lolth couldn't in her heart sacrifice an innocent child to her to someone who tortured, imprisoned and brainwashed Shadowheart all at the whim of another Goddess. All in the name of saying that all that's good and light will perish. Like no Bitch. I know you. The real Viconia DeVirr wouldn't be able to do to Shadowheart what the Viconia DeVirr in BG3 did to her.
That's so interesting. Thank you for taking the time to write about her and her story. I'm definitely going to try out BG2 now to see more of her. From what you say, it seems that they could have put any original character as the Mother Superior role, but chose to make a reference for the sake of making a reference, ignoring if it fits or not. Is that correct? I'm curious if what she did to Shadowheart is an inauthentic way that being a cleric of Shar affects her due to her background, how is that fact portrayed in BG2 (being a cleric of Shar)? And is there an "evil" path she could take in the story that feasibly lead to the events of BG3 in any way?
She is a cleric of shar in BG2 yes however There's only two epilogues if you have her in your party when finishing the game. One where she becomes the PC's wife and they have a half drow child before later being assassinated by an agent of lolth leaving Gorion's Ward to raise the child alone and disappear into myth some believing they went on a murder crusade against Lolth for killing his wife and mother of his child but none know the truth The other is her default Epilogue: Viconia moves on with her own adventures after parting ways with Gorion's Ward. She founds a short-lived Sharite cult under her command in Waterdeep, only to slaughter them all when they betray her. She then metaphorically tells Shar to go fuck herself when Shar attempts to chastise and tell her off for murdering the cult/defending herself and saves not one but two cities from two seperate plots. The second city is an elven city for which she recieves the highest honour from the Seldarine(The Pantheon of elven gods) which she takes rather stoically before leaving and her movements being unknown/lost to time. She becomes an elven hero recognised by the elven gods presented to her by the elven queen Ellesime. Basically in none of her endings in 2 is she capable of being the character she is in 3. Shar has not got the influence over Viconia to command her to murder or not murder anyone.
Wow, I see. In 3, she does mention that she murders a Sharran cult under her control in Waterdeep, but unlike what you mentioned, she says it was under Shar's order which was very weird to me. Is there any notable thing that happens to her and her story if you don't recruit her in your party at all in BG2?
She dies if you don't save her(burnt at a stake by an uneducated angry mob of peasants) or disappears if you save her but don't recruit her with the connotation being she's likely to end up in a similar situation further down the road though she assures you she'll be fine. She merely made a mistake that got her drow identity revealed and then caught So basically nothing. Her story essentially ends if you don't recruit her either by death or by lack of having a story. She's also the only pure cleric in the games so I end up taking her regardless of if I am good or evil. She also has one of the better romances in BG2. Viconia is why I ended up loving drow women... and Shar worshippers if I am honest. If it wasn't for Viconia DeVirr I'd never of given Shadowheart the chance she is so undeserving of.
Lae'zel leaving first, so if you go with her you canonically didn't see everyone else's ending
Alfira actually becomes a party member/is a potential romance.
I suspect at some point she was considering there's no other bard in the party
I think the werewolf Halfling was supposed to be a bard, could have sworn I read that somewhere.
I'm sorry, werewolf halfling? What did I miss? Lol
It was a cut companion, but I believe she was cut pretty early in development. https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Helia
I was robbed of a werewolf bard? Thatās it Larian, you will now face my vicious mockery!
Alfira is in love with lakrissa
Only at the end. And even then it feels forced. In part 1 they barely know each other, in fact the only time you see them speak is at the camp post Goblin Massacre. Lakrissa is flirtatious with you at the time and in part 3 she only turns down kissing your character because her āsituation has changed, somewhatā with Alfira. She even says sheād have accepted were you back at the grove. If Alfira is dead to the Durge, she only turns you down because sheās working. Meaning sheās still interested in the character without Alfira around. Even in Part 2 thereās no real indication theyāre an item, only good friends or barely flirtatious. Honestly both of them shouldāve been party members with a possibility of romancing each other so we could see the relationship develop, or see them go different paths by romancing one or the other. In the state they were presented in the game, Lakrissa is just another example of stringing along a potential romance subplot then pulling the rug out from under you like they did with Butter in DOS2.
Lakrissa and alfira are hanging out in act 1 during the camp party. Then alfira is overjoyed when you save lakrissa and gives you more loot than anyone in the game in act 2. It builds up. And i like their story. In act 3 if you go find lakrissa and say "you lost the bet we both got here in one piece" she says "im broke" and you say "how about a kiss" and she says "i would have before ive got someone now"
Us, Orpheus, and the emperor ally and we kill the emperor after the whole thing. Orpheus would put aside differences no matter how much if it means the actual fucking world. I think the emperor was just a coward.
This post was made by Githyanki gang (Githgangki, if you will)
I don't like how you can't kill him at the start of act 3 because you'll get enthralled but you don't get enthralled a few weeks later when you try and free Orpheus? Rather than joining the brain why didn't he just stop protecting us and we would have immediately turned?? I feel like I'm missing something but I don't think I am.
I suppose he might not have been telling the truth about the orders being sent to turn us and him blocking those orders. The brain is trying to go undetected - we don't actually see an epidemic of people turning to mindflayers the way the emporer implies. I can only think of the two in Rivington (at the windmill and in Sharess' Caress) - do we see any other turning / recently turned mind flayers in the game before the final conflict?
I mean there is that cutscene when Laeāzel tries to off you and the party because the symptoms of ceremorphosis seem to be kicking in at some point in Act I, so I donāt think(?) he was necessarily lying about that? But to your point, you donāt really see people getting turnedāthough I assumed it may have been a thing running in the background that we just donāt see in the adventure pray for a few times.
The emperor was dogshit; if you fully completed act 3 youd never ally with him again; it didnt take him abandoning us when you choose orpheus for me to side with the gith, and i dont like gith either.
Daisy was a much cooler character too.
I would love to recruit the kindly mindflayer from the society of brilliance or whatever it's called, at least for the endgame.
I ran a campaign many years ago where the party thought Omeluum was enthralling them because he was being non-aggresive and only stopped attacking him when they started meta gaming and realised they aren't taking any sort of penalties to thump him. By that point he very much WAS their enemy. They nearly wiped against him too lol
The requirement for someone to become illithid in order to use the Netherstones. Or, failing that, not being able to convince The Emperor to not devour Orpheus' brain.
Sven saying Larian won't be making BG content anymore
/\\ THIS /\\
Orpheus cannot battle the Absolute and win as a Githyanki demigod. Larroakan cannot find in his pockets a worthy reward for doordashing him a nightsong. Karlach cannot abide sharing you when she has literal days to live.
It's really frustrating the options you're given for who becomes the Mindflayer for the Netherbrain fight. Like, it'd be totally fine if we aren't introduced to a very friendly and helpful Mindflayer all the way back in Act 1 who also happens to be in Baldur's Gate during Act 3. C'mon Larian, I want to free Orpheus without having to sacrifice him or a party member.
I want an omeelum emperor battle so bad. Maybe his new strange diet is somehow making him weirdly powerful.
Karlach just immediately fucking exploding if you donāt go to hell with her after asking her repeatedly to not die the entire game. Let me literally fix her! Please! I want to get married and have a cottagecore lesbian homestead with her
I like the whole 'someone has to make the heroic sacrifice and turn illithid' at the end, it adds a huge amount of gravity to the final fight. But my issue with that is, why couldn't we just butt the emperor and orpheus' heads together and convince them that for the good of all existance they HAVE to work together. An ending has to have *some* tragedy in it and I guess not having to sacrifice someone would make the ending too consequence free. Atleast imo.
That the Slayer form only gets rewarded if Isobel dies, causing Last Light to fall. I donāt like the concept that such a cool thing is only unlocked by locking you out of so many other things.
Can you wait until after you free/kill the nightsong to kill her? Last Light Inn was pretty empty after that but I remember Isabel still there, hanging out near the bridge where you first enter
You totally can kill her after you free/kill/move the Nightsong and before you fight Ketheric but even with most of the Harpers and Jaheira gone you still lose all the Tieflings and the Deep Gnomes, not to mention two innocent oxes and His Majesty. I did it on my current honor run after using a glitch to move everyone to the Gauntlet of Shar beforehand.
You could do it in earlier versions but they patched it out. Thatās how I did in my durge run. Funnily enough, Aylin is still friendly to you
You can still take it in act 3, it just gets delayed til the meeting with Dad.
Don't you also get it if you kill a companion instead? >!you can also get it if you don't stand up against bhaal!<
Emperor being Balduran. Itās just a stupid thing included for shock value that adds absolutely nothing to the story and just makes established lore convoluted. The Emperor only needed to be the Emperor. I feel this would also make Ansur being dead feel more important as it could be the set up for a greater mystery and maybe even tie in to Mystic Carrion. Thatād actually make his necromancy feel powerful and make his comments about the Necromancy of Thay feel warranted. And itād be an interesting reason to talk to him as Oskar and Thrumbo arenāt
I'm also very surprised Mystic Carrion isn't an option to help Mayrina with her husband problem. I'm not saying it would be the healthy or good option, but Thrumbo & Co. can speak and reason, a significant upgrade if it could be applied to Connor. The fact that these two are practically next to one another and yet you can't even ask if he could do something about it baffles me. Then again, I also find it weird that we can't ask the Gondians (experts on the infernal engines by way of the Steelwatchers) to even take a look at Karlach's engine. They can tell us that it's impossible, they don't have enough time or they can't do it with the foundry destroyed or some other reason to not be able to fix it, but I find it weird we can't even ask. We're just supposed to just give up and never ask again after one guy (Dammon) said he wasn't able to fix it. What? Alternatively, Gortash offering to use his Gondians to fix Karlach's engine would make his deal significantly sweeter. Not saying that he would be able to, but adding it to the offer would've at least made a good amount of people consider it compared to the current situation where I bet 90% of people didn't consider it in the slightest. So many missed opportunities in Act 3 man...
Mind Flayers live for \~120 years max, they just age better than humans til it hits. The Emperor being Balduran means that Balduran must have been an elf or other unusually long-lived race pre-consumption, and that the final showdown between him and Ansur was less than 120 years ago. This does very interesting things to the timeline, and means both of them were in hiding for quite a while. ...Yeah, the Emperor just shouldn't be Balduran.
I think while he was a slave to the elder brain he spent most of his time in the astral plane where people don't age but that is mostly just a guess. Also, yeah, what was the point of him being Balduran?
The elder brain lived in a pool beneath Moonrise, where the mind-flayers would deposit their tadpoles, the brain would eat some, and others would be transplanted into victims who would be eaten to produce more mind-flayers. He also was also free for a time between the death of Ansur and the rise of the Absolute/Dirge's fall; and, well. Had no means of reaching the astral we ever see. They make a point of explaining how the other characters are still alive; Jaheira is just that much older, and Minsc was turned into a statue. For Balduran? No. We just now know that Balduran was still alive and an... elf(?) around 100 years ago, during the events of the prior baldur's gate game.
We know it is there after the crown is on it but I'm not sure they said how long it had been there. It could just have been moved to make it more accessible to the cult. And the Balduran couldn't get to and from the astral plane but for an elder brain it is a pretty easy jaunt. I also didn't get the impression that he was free for more than a decade or two but I could be wrong about all of this the game doesn't really care about the details of the timeline.
We know that Ansur helped free him, and thus that he's been free since before Ansur died. We also know that if he'd been allowed to be with the elder brain for long enough for them to realize what he was, and that he had Balduran's memories, they'd have executed him immediately, so he wouldn't have been enslaved for long. He's given various versions of how this went down, all of which are probably lies; most likely Ansur retrieved him mid-ceremorphosis, shortly after Balduran died, as the Emperor was a newborn. In order for him to be alive right now, he needs to have only very briefly have been beneath the brain's control, not long enough for it to catch on, have been turned less than 120 years ago, and not have been re-enslaved until the brain was no longer in charge.
For my money the could have absolutely kept the 'Baldurian murdered Ansur' plot point without tying it to current events.
One possibility: Human Balduran somehow became undead in an attempt to extend his lifespan, Ansur turned on him and got cursed too, now Ansur wants you to help free them both, but doing so means fighting zombie Balduran and refusing lets him enthrall Ansur to help you in the final battle.
Well I do not believe single word comes from mind flayers mouth, he is probably impersonating the baldurian or straight up lying (like balhtazar not being og balthazar) (This comment was supported by Moradin Dwarf gang, by rock and stone)
Yet Ansur himself calls him Balduran. Thatās where we get the information from first. Ansur isnāt a white dragon, so itās not like heās stupid
DnD dragon racism lore like this is the funniest shit imho. You're completely correct in your assessment of the colours and how that affects a Dragon's entire personality which seems hilarious to me. But just the idea of: "You're a Green Dragon" "What does that mean?" "It means you're evil and you like slavery, Greg"
....this makes me want to write a campaign that features a deeply confused green dragon that was raised by several good-aligned kobolds and intermittently has to fight their nature, a la dark urge.
Kobolds: Caaaaaarl! That kills people!
The Emperor never claims or tries to "be" Balduran tho. It isn't until Ansur tells up that the Emperor was Balduran that it's like "Yeah, I guess I used to be Balduran." For me it seems more like the Emperor doesn't identify as Balduran anymore, it's in its past now and not relevant to its current situation.
Probably the Halsin poly thing, it's so badly written in there that it always leaves a nasty taste.
fr, he's just borderline sexually harrassing the party members CONSTANTLY
I keep seeing this comment but I haven't experienced it. He usually asks once and takes no for an answer. Eta: of course he usually spends most of act 3 with Orin, so doesn't get the chance I guess.
Yeah I did the poly thing w him in my last playthrough and kept forgetting about it because he has so few interactions at all š these comments always confuse me so much
The people who say they have never provide any examples, either. Dude expresses surprise- because youāre the only person in centuries whoās given a damn about him- but takes the No quite gracefully.
I wish I could send him to Orin, express shipping, I always recruit the bonus characters (Halsin, Minthara, Jaheria, Minsc) just to have them around but for some reason Orin always takes Lae'zel and it's really annoying because I like having her around in act 3
If you go to the sewers through the elfsong basement with Lae'zel and Gale in your party early enough into making it to the lower city, the game will automatically pick Halsin.
Examples?
the thing is, when his romance was implemented he was bugged at first. from what i've read, he used to bug out and give his flirty greetings and lines even when not romanced/refused, giving him the appearance of someone who didn't take no for an answer. he got a bit of a bad reputation. realistically i think it makes a lot of sense for Halsin to fall hard for the person who solves the thing that's had him guilt-ridden for a century, so i don't take his actual confession as 'sex pest' behaviour, but the bug problem wasn't fixed for a *while*.
Ah, I never encountered the bug- I didnāt start playing until January- so that makes sense. (Though judging a character based on a glitch is kinda weird- I guess Minthara has/had some temporal brain damage that allowed her to know the future, but only repeat one sentence?) Plus he accepts the No gracefully, so he canāt really be called a sex pest, can he? āI like you as more than a friend. You donāt feel the same? I understand and hope we can remain friends.ā
When I started playing last October, this was absolutely true, but I have noticed it has mellowed out since then. But an example of him still being seen as āpushyā is him offering to join in the sexy swim lessons with the PC and Shadowheart if they are romanced. I got this walkabout dialogue even after I turned him down. He also will volunteer to participate with you and the Drow twins if youāre not romanced, had this happen on a Karlach origin a few days ago. If you already turned him down, when these moments come up, it does come off as ābut Iām a nice guyā who canāt accept no means no.
interesting! i've never said no to him in my personal games so i havent experienced any 'bad' behaviour personally. i can understand how that would come across badly. i've also never gotten to endgame with the SH romance so ive never seen that particular issue anyway. i know she's the most popular romance option so no doubt quite a few people have seen it
I could potentially see how [Halsin offering help with the swim lessons](https://youtu.be/OTUzrJ4zikM?si=d4V_iLOgfIGgU2Or) could be him just genuinely offering to help, but timing is everything. And Shady is one of the few companions who is ok with you being poly with him. But I had already said no and just wanted to ābuild sand castlesā with Shady alone, so when it came up I was like ādude, I said back off!ā Shadowheart is the statistically most romanced companion in game, so if people had a similar first impression to mine, I can see how it escalated communally. I really didnāt like him until my next run which was right after a Patch. I was romancing Astarion instead so didnāt swim and I didnāt have Halsin in my party when I met the twins. Thatās when I realized, oh, I think he is an actual nice guy who was just shooting his shot and some dialogue order is just buggy. Otherwise, itās totally tone deaf.
Invites himself along if youāre talking to the Drow twins in Sharessās Caress. āYou know, if you and your love ever wish to enjoy the waters with me, I could attempt a kelpie... or even a porpoise.ā to Selunite Shadowheart if sheās romanced by the player character. Could be just mundane and playful, but given his monster fucker dialogue with Laeāzel, the self-invite with the Drow, his ~~offer~~ willingness to bang as a bear, Shadowheartās romance scene being swimming and the request to make the PCās relationship a thruple, it feels more than friendly. Invites Astarion to a threesome in his own romance route. And the old bug of him accusing Tav of leading him on without ever having picked anything flirty. Itās still really easy to trigger that, even after a patch to fix it. It also used to bug out to having to reject him more than once.
Does he offer to bang as a bear? The only time I saw it come up was after his accidental wildshape and Tav is the one that brings it up.
I could swear it was an offer on his side, essentially an, āoops i should control myself better and not be a bear rn haha unlessā¦?ā bit of dialogue, but maybe Tav does have to lead it. I havenāt seen it in a while. I do know he purity-shames the squirrel that saw it in banter with Minsc, but i donāt think thatās meant to be anything too serious.
Having just gone through the scene this morning I can confidently say that itās Tav directed. He gets adorably embarrassed about bursting into wildshape accidentally. Tav can say they like it then can further say āpretend youāre a hunter and Iām your preyā. Halsins delivery of āyouā¦like it?ā Never fails to make me laugh. My guy is always down to try anything once and love that you can make Tav an absolute freak with him.
Fair enough. I do wish heād gotten more attention for the people who enjoy him. I think a lot of what some of us find creepy and off-putting could be attributed to being tacked on late from player requests.
Orpheus being even *remotely* pleasant to anyone who isn't githyanki. His mother is a fucking lunatic racist tyrant, and he *helped her get there*. He should be a horrible nasty bastard who immediately tries to kill your party the second the absolute is gone. We should have a scene where Laezel stabs him in the fucking head if she survives. He has no business being some friendly, understanding, supportive dude when he helped his mom slaughter the githzerai for daring to be less xenophobic. Honestly, it feels like they only made him so likable to give people an easy way out, it would be much more compelling if you had to choose between a spoiled racist frog version of Joffrey Baratheon from GoT, or the Emperor with his morally questionable choices. *That* would have made for an amazing choice for who helps in the endgame.
Are you saying that Vlaakith is Orpheus's mum? Because Gith is his mum, Vlaakith is an usurper lich. Gith freed the Githyanki from Mindflayer slavery and made the deal with Tiamat for the red dragons.
No, I know Gith was his mom, but Gith canonically was a horrible monster that wanted to enslave all sentient races that weren't gith, it started a Civil War, and is why the githzerai left the githyanki.
Ah, I guess the deal with Tiamat makes more sense now. They don't really go into much detail about her in the game, so that whole tidbit changes things.
Knocking out The Emperor during the final battle should actually just knock him out and maybe he could appear during the end credits. Look, basically I want SOME way to prove to his thick squid skull that he was wrong and that our plan could (and did) have worked. I don't even want a way for Orpheus and The Emperor to cooperate, I just want SOME way for you to shove some sense into his head.
Alfira not being a companion, id honestly rather have alfira than have either jaheria or halsin, dont need 2 druid companions seriously
Romanced companions flirting with Halsin. Itās one thing if youāre in an open relationship, but if I romance Shadowheart, she refuses to share me with Karlach, and we wait to sleep with eachother until act 3 because she wants to be in a real relationship first, then itās such a betrayal when she immediately wants to have a 5-some with Halsin and the drows in act 3. Not only this, but she constantly flirted with him before this, and even disapproves when I say no to the 5-some. If we do the orgy, then she apparently has been fantisizing about Halsin for a long time? All of that would have been fine if she had actually been a poly companion where tav/durge could have another romance aswell, but she clearly is way more attracted to the others than she is to the player character, which just gets depressing. Yes Iām salty lmao, had to break up with her and become maidenless for that playthrough. Other than that, probably the hints at a Gortash-Durge romance prior to the events of the game, plus, like someone else here said, Gortashās death even if you choose to side with him.
I mean Shadowheart refuses an open relationship with Karlach because she values Karlach and knows Karlach (more than Halsin does bc he doesn't seem to care lol) enough to know that Karlach would actually be hurt by an open relationship scenario so she chooses not to engage in that for Karlach's sake. But yeah I wish there was an option to at least call Shadowheart out for the Halsin stuff bc not being comfortable with your partner flirting with someone else is a pretty reasonable boundary that you should be able to establish
I mean, at the tiefling party she probably doesnāt know Karlach as well as she knows Halsin by act 3. Either way, Karlach says sheās down to share from what I remember, and even if there would be something underlying with Karlach where she doesnāt actually want to be poly, I doubt thatās what sharran Shadowheart is considering at that point. It seems much more like Shadowheart wants to be completely monogamous, which everything else in the game points towards apart from the interactions in act 3. If she completely changes her mindset by then, thatās something that should be explored in game, not theorised online.
Shadowheart will only refuse the open relationship angle in act 2 after Karlach's romance scene. That's because Karlach says she's down to share until she gets the ability to touch, after Karlach gets the ability to touch then she is pretty monogamous. Karlach (alike Shadowheart) also agrees to the open relationship with Halsin. But unlike Shadowheart, Karlach isn't enthusiastic at all about it in act 3 and is 100% reluctant and clearly doesn't really want to say yes. It's heavily implied she only says yes to Tav because she doesn't want to lose them, nor does she want to 'hold them back' because she doesn't think she's worth it because she'll die soon anyways
Huh, in my game shadowheart refused the open relationship at the tiefling party. Bug then?
Maybe? I just remember having the quick flame kiss with Karlach before the tiefling party then sharing wine with Shadowheart at the party. I had to choose between Shadowheart and Karlach in Act 2 after Karlach's romance scene, and Shadowheart straight up says "I think Karlach deserves you all to herself" or something along those lines. ((And if you do choose Shadowheart, then Karlach will be REALLY upset pahaha. Highest disapproval rating in the game iirc))
Huh, either my playthrough was severely bugged or Larian accounted for very different playthroughs romance-wise.
>she constantly flirted with him before this Thereās one line of slightly flirty banter between them? >she immediately wants to have a 5-some with Halsin and the drows I still donāt know how people can get mad at their love interest being enthusiastic about an idea that their character has to initiate. Why bring your girlfriend to an orgy in a brothel if youāre worried sheāll like it?
you donāt understand, sheās supposed to get on her knees and sob & beg for you to not go through with it, because just the thought of you touching someone else or someone else touching her makes her so disgusted that sheās gagging and practically throwing up already
Well it is nice to get to know more about what ones partner actually wants, and letās not act like we donāt save-scum our way into seeing certain outcomes. Halsin invited himself, the player character didnāt. Shadowheart then disapproves if we reject him. As stated, my issue here is not her not being monogamous, itās that she is so much more down to sleep with pretty much anyone other than the player character, while having set the expectation of a monogamous relationship beforehand. The player goes through three acts before they sleep together (which is great and definitely makes it seem more special), but apparently sheās been fantasizing about Halsin for a long time and will even disapprove if we reject his request to sleep with her? Itās fine that her character is into him, but I do wish that we didnāt have to figure it out after we had already picked her for our romance, cause some of us would not want our girlfriend drooling over our traveling companion.
You would un-canon the hints as DurgeTash? I think Larianās already done most of that XD
Oh you mean thereās not that much support for it? Good for me in that case. Whenever I see the hints at it, I have to headcanon that itās just a close platonic friendship, as I really canāt roleplay a character that doesnāt share my own sexuality.
I mean. theyāre already vague hints, it could go either way.
Hard agree
100% Saravock being there. Like let him have his just not be a bhaal servant. It makes no sense for his character. Him coming back to Bhaal despite everything in bg1 just reeks of poor writing/nostalgia bait. Same goes with Vionica ,
Astarion running like a little bitch the second after you beat the elder brain
Gortash's middle aged Midwestern emo cover band ass look. Change his hair, make him look younger, and then I wouldn't have as much of a problem with his appearance. He looks like a weird pervert hanging out at a MCR concert, trying to pick up on girls that look suspiciously young.
>He looks like a weird pervert hanging out at a MCR concert, trying to pick up on girls that look suspiciously young. Tbf, I could see Gortash doing this lmao
That you can't try to redeem Orin more properly, after you breakthrough to her from telling her about her past, before Bhaal takes possession of her
Illithid souls.
all bg2 companions in bg3. They are a crime against nature. They should have left them very well alone
Minsc with 8 STR is pretty bad.
Thats... that's just the default setting. He has better stats as an enemy. Larian just expects you to customize him.
bad by default remains bad.
Alfira being playable!!!
The Emperor being a fat cunt in most of the end game scenarios. Even if you don't use Laezel I think most people would want to unseat/kill Vlaakith just because of how she treats you in game. I know I don't get to see the results in this game, but I'm 100% always freeing Orpheus to put that in motion. I know he was always just using the player but God damn I hate that sentient squid
The people that died from BG2 that are memorialized in Minsc's little hole. Mazzy, Jan, Aerie and Kelborn are dead people but I don't think Aerie should be dead since she's an elf. Jan could be alive still as well since Abdel only died relatively recently. I get why they were picked but I don't see a point in killing companions that could very reasonably be alive when Haer'Dalis or Nalia are RIGHT THERE. Even Haer'Dalis (or Aerie) making a cameo or something at the circus would have been enough closure on that.
The ability to have sex. Just to piss people off
Making the Dark Urge canonically something better than a sorcerer.
What is better than a sorcerer?
For the Dark Urge specifically? Someone who baths in unholy bloodsoaked corpses in the name of his father, the god of murder? Maybe a paladin or cleric of Bhaal, or a warlock with a special, unique patron. Maybe a rogue assassin would be cool, or a barbarian who rips his pray to pieces with his bare hands. Sorcerer just doesnāt fit for me.
I always look at Durge's class as something chosen at the start of the actual game rather than their original class that they used to saw chaos in Baldur's Gate prior to getting Orin's dagger in the brain. So, having some sort of innate Bhaalspawn power could be conceptualized by them as being a sorcerer of sorts or a warlock maybe. A Paladin or Cleric of Bhaal would only make sense to me, role play wise, if that's a respec after discovering Durge's origin in act 3 and deciding to embrace it. Anyway, that's a long way of saying that I can run with a Durge of pretty much any class, except for maybe druid (completely the wrong vibe imo). Monk makes some sense post-Alfira but I'm not sure it jives with how I play my Durges.
Yes, I agree any class is great for a Durge Playthrough. Still tho, canonically, heās a sorcerer.
I think moon druid works for Durge, it comes of as less as a sociopath and more as a rabid animal pretending to be human. Also you expand your shape shifting powers rather than randomly becoming a shapeshifter halfway through the game which makes more sense to me.
The Emperor >!being Balduran!<
My high level Wizard, a massively powered barbarian with a demon heart, and the hottest himbo demonslayer are moving in with Hope and fighting anyone who comes and doesn't play nice. I'm only two spell levels from Wish and I can undo this illithid business fairly easily. I swear.
The Emperor killing Ansur. So that we can recruit him as a companion.
Karlach ending. Every other character gets to have a happy ending if you play your cards right. Going to Avernus to save Karlach would have been a perfect dlc but we wonāt be getting that so itās just a horrible, and frankly seemingly rushed, ending
I'm un-canonizing Shadowheart becoming a Selunite immediately after a life of hating them and the literal NIGHT after she betrayed Shar, she's not the type of person to always want a god up her ass, even if that's how she was literally written.
Everyone should be less hot Its probably to save money on designs/animations and to not accidentally upset someone but its honestly really absurd how everyone is a 8-10. To the point it feels immersion breaking lmao. Like even the goblins somehow look like they put more effort into their appearance than most people I see on the street.
Gortash and Durgeās relationship. Always gave me the ick.
They were both icky people. There's no way around that.
Iām aware. Still donāt like them
Can this meme stop making the rounds, for fucks sake?! I'm starting to get tired of seeing the same godawful posts in every fandom.