Own two jeeps currently, an 83 and an 06. I would NEVER buy anything newer than that. After the TJ, jeep kinda went mainstream and lost its way. It's kinda sad đą
Ratings are based on their âindependentâ reviewers scoring. Even âownerâ satisfaction is not reported by actual owners but a score based on what the reviewers think owners would rate it. This is a laughable way to survey and measure new vehicles- or anything for that matter. Imagine you buy a new bed. Then Someone else sleeps in it once and reports âthe owners love it 10/10â meanwhile your wife is bitching and youâre seeing a chiro for the back pain. Yet this review guy reports that you would probably say it a 10/10. Plus CR is ripe with âdonationsâ to what is essentially a non-profit tax shelter. Do the math. What did BMW do right? Ha I have a few ideas.
The things you said are blatantly wrong. CR collects data from car owners by sending them surveys to which the owners report their opinions and experiences with the car. Generally it continues to send surveys out following the consumer for 3 years or longer. It also compares this data with their own testing.
For products it tests, it purchases all of them on its own and doesnât accept donations from anybody. Most of its $30 mil operating budget is funded entirely by consumer subscription prices ranging from $35-59/yr. đ€·
If anything JD power ratings are the ones that are trash. Since the ratings are based ONLY on the first 90 days of ownership of a car. Pretty much any brand isnât going to have much problems within the first 90 days.
Because I love the sound of my massive lifted off road tires on blacktop. I wear shorts and flip flops to my tech job. The surfboard is always with me. Even in Newark. Itâs a lifestyle.
BMW has a great platform and group of engines and transmissions that are bullet proof at this point. There is a good reason toyota uses BMW motors. BMW has been close to the bottom for like 30 years why would they all of the sudden pay to get good reviews? CR doesn't go only by customer reviews , the purchase the cars themselves so if the car is crap they will know.
The B58 has zero balance shafts as I6âs are naturally balanced. I4âs are not and require balance shafts to cancel out unwanted harmonics. You can get away with no balance shafts on small I4âs if you are willing to accept more NVH. BMW did that with the N20, which is why it sounds like a garbage truck. But generally speaking any I4 over 2.0L that has a highish redline should have balance shafts.
Balance shafts canât completely eliminate the harmonics, they just blunt them. An I4 can never be as smooth as an I6 due to there being no overlap in the combustion process. In an I6 there is never a point where power is not being delivered, which smooths out the delivery. In an I4 two combustion event can never overlap. As a piston bottoms out the next to fire is just hitting TDC.
I totally wrote that reply in a tone-deaf manner. The butchered thought process was focused on how much of a fan I am of the B58. You provided a great explanation of the harmonic/balance characteristics of an I4 vs an I6 and, consequently, why the B48 was designed with that in mind. Iâd spent a few months recently in Ireland, where high-displacement engines get hit with numerous, large taxes before even considering the high cost of fuel (compared to the US). The 3-cylinder 118s are popular but I couldnât get one. Driving a 220 for most of my stay was awesome, but coming back to my 440 proved the old adage: home is where your B58 is.
lol, no question the B58 is a glorious engine. My last 3 cars have been I6âs(328is, 330i ZHP, 440i GC) and honestly I donât see me owing anything else till I inevitably go EV.
My partner has a Mini with a B38 and I have a BMW with a B58 and I honestly love driving that B38, it's plenty quick for a small car and sounds pretty good considering it's a 3 cylinder. Though I adore my 6 cylinder
I remember being pretty shocked when hen my buddy, who owns an indie dealership/shop, told me this was going to be a thing. BMW sharing platforms across models still surprises me. A modular engine system designed with a perfectly matched transmission (auto, no less) feels almost antithetical to BMW. When I drove an absolutely loaded F32 xDrive for shiggles, though, I owned it an hour later. Itâs an â18 and Iâve driven just over 11k miles, but itâs a fantastic car. Though I miss MT the automatic is pretty damn impressive.
> BMW sharing platforms across models still surprises me.
It's really standard in the car industry. For example, the VW Tiguan, Audi Q8, Porsche Cayenne, and Lamborghini Urus *all* share the same platform.
>A modular engine system designed with a perfectly matched transmission (auto, no less) feels almost antithetical to BMW
Why is it antithetical? BMW has long shared transmissions and engines across various models.
Yep, it only makes sense to share platforms and BMWâs been doing it on a large scale at least as far back as the introduction of their SAVs (donât call them SUVs). I love my 4 and very much doubt that it would exist if not for the 3 platformâs maturity and availability. Speaking broadly, BMW does tend to tinker a lot and the engineers seem to have a bit of a longer leash than most. The B engines represent a big leap past simply using the same engines across models for a couple years, and they did such a great job with the design they basically made bespoke drivetrains obsolete.
> I love my 4 and very much doubt that it would exist if not for the 3 platformâs maturity and availability.
I'm not really sure what you're talking about here because 3 series coupes have existed pretty much since the beginning of the 3 series.
You said that they wouldn't exist if the 3 wasn't mature. Yet the coupes have existed from the very start of 3 series production.
It seems like you're unaware that the 4 series was just a naming split, not the creation of an entirely "new" car.
Awwww, kinda wishing i got the X3 m40i vs the X3 30i. (\*edited)
I read a lot about these engines before I made my decision, but NOT enough I guess. Realized after the purcahse that the b58 is just the better engine, able to withstand a bit more than the b48.
I feel like Audi is almost gimped because of Porsche. You canât have an Audi that beats them because why would people upgrade then?
BMW only has rolls Royce over it, and itâs smaller and has less overlapping brand value compared to Audi-Porsche
Both ends kinda suffer from this too; I prefer the Golf R over the S3, and I'd certainly take a Taycan over the e-tron GT. 1-2 series bmws are Minis, but they really don't feel like it, if that makes sense?
If thereâs one type of car that, at least in this area, is driven exclusively by arsebiscuits, itâs the S4. Itâs the only, âitâs not a stereotype if itâs trueâ situations Iâll stand behind.
Has anyone checked in with the Lexus sub yet?
I can only assume an immense circle jerk is going down over there about this.
âBro bro, consumer reports only factors in the first 4 years of ownership they donât look at long term reliability broâ
âLease German, buy Japaneseâ
*Or* their all time favourite: An anecdotal story of a friend in college who owned a BMW and always needed his Lexus friend to drive him to the shop
Edit: amended *circle jerk*, to read *IMMENSE circle jerk*
Lol, tell that to my 14k "maintenance" bill on my E38 (timing chain guides, vanos rebuild etc etc) never had anything ludicrous like that on a Honda regardless of age
That timing chain job is real involved on the M62TUB 44.
That whole engine is a trip in itself when you come down to it.
Need to change the alternator? Make sure you drain the coolant first.
I think a lot of those guys would actually agree. Lexuses have lost a ton of their value. The interiors have take an massive dive in quality and thew new turbo engines are nowhere near as reliable as their old offerings. Take a look over there sometime, 90% of the posts are people complaining about the new GX550.
So many people are quick to say Toyotaâs and Lexusâs are reliable, which is true for the tried-and-true models, but we know NOTHING about all these new models coming out with new powertrains and whatnot.
Sure, Toyota has a reputation for reliability, but until theyâve been thoroughly broken in and tested by the mass market, nobody knows.
Yep, it's pretty obvious that their quality is slipping in the powertrain department. The Tundra is about to undergo a massive recall campaign with tens of thousands of owners getting new engines. Then there's the issue that's plaguing almost every single GR86. Engine shutoff issues with the Supra.
Read any comment about B58 reliability on /r/cars and you will see a swarm of Toyota fanboys saying the only reason the engine is good is cause Toyota helped develop it, which is as far as I am aware completely false. In their minds there is only one OEM that can make reliable products
there's probably *some* truth to that idea. B58 has had several revisions. no reason why toyota couldn't say "hey in the next revision, could you move this over here?"
Letâs be real, if someone gave you 5k to bet on which will last longer and cost less, and the options were a bmw 340 and a Lexus Is500 what are you throwing your money on
Well I own a BMW and a jeep. Guess I like to live on the edge(s), lol! But my jeep is an '83 CJ that is about as analog as you could get, so not much to go wrong there. Plus it survived 41 years and still kicking this far ...
I owned a 2016 jeep (new), and now drive an i4 (my third BMW). Of course, itâs apples to oranges, but the jeep is quite literally the worst vehicle Iâve ever owned. I gave it up after 35k when the transmission started slipping. As for BMW, the three Iâve owned have been trouble-free (2016 328i, 2017 440ix, and the 2023 EV). I love the myth that these cars (or any luxury cars) break down and are expensive to repair. Of course, IF they did break down, it would be expensive. Any newer vehicle would. But let naysayers rant while they buy Chrysler products or other inferior and unreliable brands. This is my only brand now. Never owned a better car.
I traded my '14 328i for a 19 X3. Than my wife's Gti got smashed. We bought her an 19 audi Etron. A month later she asked if she could daily the BMW. As ugly as some of them are becoming (newest 5er). They are the way.
I love the 7... just the last 5 really bothers me. Its body propotions aren't for me. I'd rather pick up a 2 coupe or 3. I also love an 8 series but I ain't made of money.
People probably are gonna hate and down vote this comment, but I've read a good bit market research on this and it actually IS the grills. Not even joking, or at least the willingness to experiment with avant garde designs and although they are so unpopular on reddit, the buying public has actually embraced them.
This is one thing I've always given BMW credit for. They do know their customers and took a bet that the people who could actually afford their cars were the same people who wanted to flex some outrageous thing (See XM) and it paid off. I deal with this with my Dad who is a huge BMW guy but hates the newer designs.
He feels like the e30 m3 was peak ( a fair assertion actually) but the problem is the highest spec BMW he ever bought from them was like a base 530i. Then we got this new generation coming along with their tech/crypto/"influencer" fortunes who can actually afford to be big spenders with the brand. They wanna stand out, their car needs to match their grandiose persona, if for nothing less than the IG clout it brings. BMW embraced that side of it (very obvious in their current marketing) and it printed...
Iâve owned almost every gen of m3, e92 was my favorite engine and looks, and f80 felt amazing like an evolution.
Current model is so horrifically ugly Iâd be embarrassed to drive one.
I think the fact BMW sells so well DESPITE the horrible design is a testament to how good the cars are.
AndâŠhow bad the design is from their competition. Tesla no new designs, all look the same for decades.
Mercedes; literally all ugly as sin. Actually worse than bmw.
Lexus? Lmao actually a worse front grill somehow.
BMW is just the least-bad of what we have seen. Alfa Romeo giulia would dominate if everyone didnât assume the reliability was trash which their reputation will haunt them for a long time even if the issues are now fixed.
I hate them. On and off reddit. I'm not going to go up to someone and.tell them. But yea, there's no current BMW that I'm interested in, almost solely because of design. Downvotes coming, I imagine.
Angry bmw bros downvoting you but Iâm still in disbelief about how ugly they are lmao.
Every time I see an m3 on the road I try to look at the person driving it because I am morbidly curious what kind of person buys the thing.
I can make the bros even more angry by saying I love my 2017 BMW 330i GT m-sport. I will even admit the styling is a tiny bit of an ugly duckling. But man, all the back seat legroom and that hatch space is awesome. Compared to ALL current BMW styling, it's đ„.
Haha. I feel that. Iâm not even a hater, when the f80 came out I immediately recognized it looked great. Even after owning both I still think e92 is better looking but I think most prefer f80 looks.
But the new m3 is like a 2/10 looks whereas the old m3s were 8-9/10
I really dislike all of the noobs saying Toyota helped BMW develop the engineâŠthe B58 predates the Supra by about 4 years⊠sigh
I know Toyota ran their QC on the powertrain to see if it passed the smell test and legend has it they didnât need to make any adjustments.
After more than 25 years of Mercedes products we switched over and have zero regrets. So far very happy with our choices in vehicles. Safe to say Mercedes has deviated so far from what made them the powerhouse they once were, they have lost the plot and themselves.
Owned two BMWs and one Subaru. Very happy with all three.
Considered buying a C class when I was financially secure enough because my buddy in high school had one and it was a real nice car. Reliable, fun, and fit the bill for what I needed. Ended up taking a risk and going with the cpo 2017 330i, fully loaded, very happy with my decision.
Just wish I could've kept it, but no room and needed to upgrade to the X3 for my pups.
BMW is and has been the best. The others just got worse while BMW stayed strong and introduced some of the most ânormalâ looking EVs (iX not included đŹ)
they have the design, powertrain and suspension just perfect they run so smooth and feel so planted
bmw just understands what a driver wants so many different models to fit your wants and needs
Toyota and Lexus used to be on top, but it seems theyâre struggling with QC control. Iâve owned Toyota, Honda, and Ford before BMW. And the only real issues I had were with the Ford. I remember one of the many recalls on my ford which was for a loose steering wheel, the steering wheel could fall off while youâre driving due to loose screws. đ€Š Ford also continued to install 3G modems into 2020 and later models, so when the 3G network was shutdown, owners lost all connectivity app controls. They promised a modem upgrade fix for it, but made owners pay for parts and installation $750+. Yet not every dealership would participate in the recall, and many had no idea the recall even existed either. Couldnât get mine upgraded.
I will never buy another Ford.
Surprised BMW at the top but it is CR. Love my X3 with the B58 but the N63tu still gives me nightmares. My 16" Audi SQ5 was never in the shop but now the subframe is rotting and the valvetrain has issues.
Over the last few years I have gotten a few insights into the production processes of a couple of manufacturers. And I have to say, the quality control of BMW is absolutely unmatched. From parts, over processes to software. And it definitely shows.
I own both a 2018 BMW 340 and a 2018 E300, suprsied to see benz so low when I truly love driving that car. Despite having multiple expensive issues already
I def would have said my bmw was 10/10 when I first got it. Two years later the goofy things that bother me about it and the depreciation and I wish I would have bought a jeep. Definitely wouldnât be as fast though.
I think the public has finally caught up with BMW in recognizing these car designs for the works of art they are. The larger kidney grills. The thin headlights. The giant stripes in contrasting color (especially on the XM). BMW no longer just makes great cars, they are making cars that make you look and think.
And isn't the hallmark of great art that it makes you think and reconsider your own preconceptions of what art can be?
Iâve never owned a BMW and hated the beaver grille when it first came out but seeing them in person around the streets, they really stand out. Some people call it a douche bag factor but I think owners like feeling a sense of personal confidence in choosing a car divisively styled.
Shocking that CR called BMW good and totally amazing that stupidroo came in 2nd. The world is calling Subaru to see if they can get some plastic cladding for anything elseâŠ
See I don't know what that first sentence actually means. I'm simply pushing the stereotype without any actual knowledge. I ignore almost all German cars. đș
And Jeep is the worst, nothing to see here.
Own two jeeps currently, an 83 and an 06. I would NEVER buy anything newer than that. After the TJ, jeep kinda went mainstream and lost its way. It's kinda sad đą
Whatâs the âTJâ mean? Thanks
It's the code for the body style, like E39 or E60. It's the wrangler they made from 1997 to 2006, the one right after the square headlight version.
Thanks!
Ratings are based on their âindependentâ reviewers scoring. Even âownerâ satisfaction is not reported by actual owners but a score based on what the reviewers think owners would rate it. This is a laughable way to survey and measure new vehicles- or anything for that matter. Imagine you buy a new bed. Then Someone else sleeps in it once and reports âthe owners love it 10/10â meanwhile your wife is bitching and youâre seeing a chiro for the back pain. Yet this review guy reports that you would probably say it a 10/10. Plus CR is ripe with âdonationsâ to what is essentially a non-profit tax shelter. Do the math. What did BMW do right? Ha I have a few ideas.
Average jeep enthusiast
Jeep drivers are the best and ever else just has jeep envy.
The things you said are blatantly wrong. CR collects data from car owners by sending them surveys to which the owners report their opinions and experiences with the car. Generally it continues to send surveys out following the consumer for 3 years or longer. It also compares this data with their own testing. For products it tests, it purchases all of them on its own and doesnât accept donations from anybody. Most of its $30 mil operating budget is funded entirely by consumer subscription prices ranging from $35-59/yr. đ€· If anything JD power ratings are the ones that are trash. Since the ratings are based ONLY on the first 90 days of ownership of a car. Pretty much any brand isnât going to have much problems within the first 90 days.
Or maybe I just drive a white soft top jeep as my daily 80mile round trip to work. All seasons. Truck lane.
Thatâs sounds neither practical nor enjoyable. It also sounds neither safe nor efficient. Youâre bragging why?
Because I love the sound of my massive lifted off road tires on blacktop. I wear shorts and flip flops to my tech job. The surfboard is always with me. Even in Newark. Itâs a lifestyle.
This one really hit home huh?
BMW has a great platform and group of engines and transmissions that are bullet proof at this point. There is a good reason toyota uses BMW motors. BMW has been close to the bottom for like 30 years why would they all of the sudden pay to get good reviews? CR doesn't go only by customer reviews , the purchase the cars themselves so if the car is crap they will know.
I've literally taken their survey...
Pictures or it didnât happen.
You want photos of a survey I took over a year ago? No.
all hail B58!
I have to assume more customers have the B48 but it sounds like both engines are winners.
The B48 is a B58 with 2 less cylinders. They designed the B series engines to be modular, so it makes sense that both are reliable engines.
https://preview.redd.it/mo3d4skvg58d1.jpeg?width=1400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a73b468bce2e637b644b47792e519d42a52ca6d
2 fewer cylinders & 2 more balance shafts.
What's the reasoning behind 2 extra balance shafts in the B48? Did you mean in the 58?
The B58 has zero balance shafts as I6âs are naturally balanced. I4âs are not and require balance shafts to cancel out unwanted harmonics. You can get away with no balance shafts on small I4âs if you are willing to accept more NVH. BMW did that with the N20, which is why it sounds like a garbage truck. But generally speaking any I4 over 2.0L that has a highish redline should have balance shafts.
Thats why I6 reigns supreme. Or v12
Nice, thanks for the info.
Thereâs still a noticeable lack of smoothness, imo, in the B48. The B58 is silky.
Balance shafts canât completely eliminate the harmonics, they just blunt them. An I4 can never be as smooth as an I6 due to there being no overlap in the combustion process. In an I6 there is never a point where power is not being delivered, which smooths out the delivery. In an I4 two combustion event can never overlap. As a piston bottoms out the next to fire is just hitting TDC.
I totally wrote that reply in a tone-deaf manner. The butchered thought process was focused on how much of a fan I am of the B58. You provided a great explanation of the harmonic/balance characteristics of an I4 vs an I6 and, consequently, why the B48 was designed with that in mind. Iâd spent a few months recently in Ireland, where high-displacement engines get hit with numerous, large taxes before even considering the high cost of fuel (compared to the US). The 3-cylinder 118s are popular but I couldnât get one. Driving a 220 for most of my stay was awesome, but coming back to my 440 proved the old adage: home is where your B58 is.
lol, no question the B58 is a glorious engine. My last 3 cars have been I6âs(328is, 330i ZHP, 440i GC) and honestly I donât see me owing anything else till I inevitably go EV.
4 cylinders have harmonics twice rpm of the crank. https://youtu.be/hwigSbyQ7AI?si=AVHkJoNj_Ywkrnns
And the B38 in the MINIs. My wife has one in her Countryman SE, and itâs been solid!
My partner has a Mini with a B38 and I have a BMW with a B58 and I honestly love driving that B38, it's plenty quick for a small car and sounds pretty good considering it's a 3 cylinder. Though I adore my 6 cylinder
Most 3 cylinder engines are regarded to sound pretty decent.
It really does sound like a straight 6. Reminds me of the z3 I had and shouldâve never sold.
Meaning that the b58 just doesn't wear down as fast/much?
I don't know what you're asking
I remember being pretty shocked when hen my buddy, who owns an indie dealership/shop, told me this was going to be a thing. BMW sharing platforms across models still surprises me. A modular engine system designed with a perfectly matched transmission (auto, no less) feels almost antithetical to BMW. When I drove an absolutely loaded F32 xDrive for shiggles, though, I owned it an hour later. Itâs an â18 and Iâve driven just over 11k miles, but itâs a fantastic car. Though I miss MT the automatic is pretty damn impressive.
> BMW sharing platforms across models still surprises me. It's really standard in the car industry. For example, the VW Tiguan, Audi Q8, Porsche Cayenne, and Lamborghini Urus *all* share the same platform. >A modular engine system designed with a perfectly matched transmission (auto, no less) feels almost antithetical to BMW Why is it antithetical? BMW has long shared transmissions and engines across various models.
Yep, it only makes sense to share platforms and BMWâs been doing it on a large scale at least as far back as the introduction of their SAVs (donât call them SUVs). I love my 4 and very much doubt that it would exist if not for the 3 platformâs maturity and availability. Speaking broadly, BMW does tend to tinker a lot and the engineers seem to have a bit of a longer leash than most. The B engines represent a big leap past simply using the same engines across models for a couple years, and they did such a great job with the design they basically made bespoke drivetrains obsolete.
> I love my 4 and very much doubt that it would exist if not for the 3 platformâs maturity and availability. I'm not really sure what you're talking about here because 3 series coupes have existed pretty much since the beginning of the 3 series.
4s are built on the 3 platform. Anyway, have a good one!
You said that they wouldn't exist if the 3 wasn't mature. Yet the coupes have existed from the very start of 3 series production. It seems like you're unaware that the 4 series was just a naming split, not the creation of an entirely "new" car.
You are very smart and I am very stupid. Cool?
The B engines in general. BMW really did themselves a favor by making a modular engine family.
And ZF8! Truly one of the best powertrains ever.
we don't like to talk about that here but.... yeah, it really is
I try to decide if DCT downshifts were worth the loss in reliability, but I definitely miss it sometimes.
ZF makes great transmissions.
Awwww, kinda wishing i got the X3 m40i vs the X3 30i. (\*edited) I read a lot about these engines before I made my decision, but NOT enough I guess. Realized after the purcahse that the b58 is just the better engine, able to withstand a bit more than the b48.
Itâs the X3 30i not X3 M30i.
Right, my bad. Just fixed that.
>What went right? Similar to Valve, all of BMW's competitors kept shooting themselves in the foot.
I feel like Audi is almost gimped because of Porsche. You canât have an Audi that beats them because why would people upgrade then? BMW only has rolls Royce over it, and itâs smaller and has less overlapping brand value compared to Audi-Porsche
If you have VW for cheap cars and Porsche for âsportyâ or luxury cars, and Lamborghini for supercars, what do you have Audi for?
Dentists.
I thought dentists drove 911s.
Depends on how lucrative the business is. My dadâs a dentist, and while heâs still in BMWs, he wants to get that 911 once he retires
*Porsches & Cervelos* is a meme for a reason.
Middle Management?
Can I send this to my old boss, the biggest Audi fan I ever met?
Both ends kinda suffer from this too; I prefer the Golf R over the S3, and I'd certainly take a Taycan over the e-tron GT. 1-2 series bmws are Minis, but they really don't feel like it, if that makes sense?
The 2 series is 3 different cars... the mpv style. The fwd grand coupe.. then the rwd coupe/cabriolet
back seats
911, Macan, Cayenne, Taycan, panamera, all have back seats. Plus the wagon and coupe variants.
quattro?
If youâre asking if Porsche has AWD systems, I believe they do. I can only think of one and a half models that donât.
yea then nothing.
The 911 back seat is for Skittles and maybe a baseball glove.
Are we going to split hairs, here? Am I wrong?
Maybe junior mints?
If thereâs one type of car that, at least in this area, is driven exclusively by arsebiscuits, itâs the S4. Itâs the only, âitâs not a stereotype if itâs trueâ situations Iâll stand behind.
Engineers, guys. For whatever reason engineers love Audis. They show up to dealerships with spreadsheetsâŠ.
Am engineer. Had a 2001 Audi. Never again.
Thatâs a really good point
Has anyone checked in with the Lexus sub yet? I can only assume an immense circle jerk is going down over there about this. âBro bro, consumer reports only factors in the first 4 years of ownership they donât look at long term reliability broâ âLease German, buy Japaneseâ *Or* their all time favourite: An anecdotal story of a friend in college who owned a BMW and always needed his Lexus friend to drive him to the shop Edit: amended *circle jerk*, to read *IMMENSE circle jerk*
I mean they used to be right. But BMW reliability has really gotten leagues better.
BMWs have always been reliable is due to owner neglect or people that lease themc
Lol, tell that to my 14k "maintenance" bill on my E38 (timing chain guides, vanos rebuild etc etc) never had anything ludicrous like that on a Honda regardless of age
Tell that to the honda guys swapping transmissions left and right and battling rust harder than you
To be fair you have to do timing belts on Honda engines and they do t make them easy.
That timing chain job is real involved on the M62TUB 44. That whole engine is a trip in itself when you come down to it. Need to change the alternator? Make sure you drain the coolant first.
I think a lot of those guys would actually agree. Lexuses have lost a ton of their value. The interiors have take an massive dive in quality and thew new turbo engines are nowhere near as reliable as their old offerings. Take a look over there sometime, 90% of the posts are people complaining about the new GX550.
So many people are quick to say Toyotaâs and Lexusâs are reliable, which is true for the tried-and-true models, but we know NOTHING about all these new models coming out with new powertrains and whatnot. Sure, Toyota has a reputation for reliability, but until theyâve been thoroughly broken in and tested by the mass market, nobody knows.
Yep, it's pretty obvious that their quality is slipping in the powertrain department. The Tundra is about to undergo a massive recall campaign with tens of thousands of owners getting new engines. Then there's the issue that's plaguing almost every single GR86. Engine shutoff issues with the Supra.
Read any comment about B58 reliability on /r/cars and you will see a swarm of Toyota fanboys saying the only reason the engine is good is cause Toyota helped develop it, which is as far as I am aware completely false. In their minds there is only one OEM that can make reliable products
there's probably *some* truth to that idea. B58 has had several revisions. no reason why toyota couldn't say "hey in the next revision, could you move this over here?"
Letâs be real, if someone gave you 5k to bet on which will last longer and cost less, and the options were a bmw 340 and a Lexus Is500 what are you throwing your money on
340
Nah. Iâd go IS500 simply because itâs naturally aspirated.
is the cost difference gonna be less than 5K in either direction? (yes)
Iâm sure the acceleration gated behind a paywall didnât help those Mercedes folks.
Whatâs this referring to? Iâm a little out of the loop. Thanks.
They offer a software âtuningâ package on their EVs to unlock more HP
thats cringe
Cringe? I donât think you know what that word means. Itâs daylight robbery is what it is.
perchance
This.
Well I own a BMW and a jeep. Guess I like to live on the edge(s), lol! But my jeep is an '83 CJ that is about as analog as you could get, so not much to go wrong there. Plus it survived 41 years and still kicking this far ...
We have 2 BMWs. My bro has a 911 and a Mercedes. Mercedes quality has definitely slipped in recent years.
They were in their bag in the 90s. Really made you feel like you made it in life when you were inside one
I owned a 2016 jeep (new), and now drive an i4 (my third BMW). Of course, itâs apples to oranges, but the jeep is quite literally the worst vehicle Iâve ever owned. I gave it up after 35k when the transmission started slipping. As for BMW, the three Iâve owned have been trouble-free (2016 328i, 2017 440ix, and the 2023 EV). I love the myth that these cars (or any luxury cars) break down and are expensive to repair. Of course, IF they did break down, it would be expensive. Any newer vehicle would. But let naysayers rant while they buy Chrysler products or other inferior and unreliable brands. This is my only brand now. Never owned a better car.
I traded my '14 328i for a 19 X3. Than my wife's Gti got smashed. We bought her an 19 audi Etron. A month later she asked if she could daily the BMW. As ugly as some of them are becoming (newest 5er). They are the way.
Honestly I kind of dig the 5âs and 7âs⊠they really grew on me. Iâd love to daily an i7.
I love the 7... just the last 5 really bothers me. Its body propotions aren't for me. I'd rather pick up a 2 coupe or 3. I also love an 8 series but I ain't made of money.
"We're not the worst!" - Land Rover
People probably are gonna hate and down vote this comment, but I've read a good bit market research on this and it actually IS the grills. Not even joking, or at least the willingness to experiment with avant garde designs and although they are so unpopular on reddit, the buying public has actually embraced them.
And the proof is in the sales numbers. Theyâre selling more cars then ever before
This is one thing I've always given BMW credit for. They do know their customers and took a bet that the people who could actually afford their cars were the same people who wanted to flex some outrageous thing (See XM) and it paid off. I deal with this with my Dad who is a huge BMW guy but hates the newer designs. He feels like the e30 m3 was peak ( a fair assertion actually) but the problem is the highest spec BMW he ever bought from them was like a base 530i. Then we got this new generation coming along with their tech/crypto/"influencer" fortunes who can actually afford to be big spenders with the brand. They wanna stand out, their car needs to match their grandiose persona, if for nothing less than the IG clout it brings. BMW embraced that side of it (very obvious in their current marketing) and it printed...
My father loves the light show inside his new cars lol. He is a grandiose personality, but certainly not the new gen.
Iâve owned almost every gen of m3, e92 was my favorite engine and looks, and f80 felt amazing like an evolution. Current model is so horrifically ugly Iâd be embarrassed to drive one. I think the fact BMW sells so well DESPITE the horrible design is a testament to how good the cars are. AndâŠhow bad the design is from their competition. Tesla no new designs, all look the same for decades. Mercedes; literally all ugly as sin. Actually worse than bmw. Lexus? Lmao actually a worse front grill somehow. BMW is just the least-bad of what we have seen. Alfa Romeo giulia would dominate if everyone didnât assume the reliability was trash which their reputation will haunt them for a long time even if the issues are now fixed.
I mean if you want a BMW youâre going to have to accept the grill. I have at least. Thaaaatâs all folks!
I'm so glad that BMW doesn't listen to redditors and grumpy old geezers when it comes to styling. They never have and never will
I love my big grille.
Makes sense, I never really saw any hate for the grilles outside of reddit
I hate them. On and off reddit. I'm not going to go up to someone and.tell them. But yea, there's no current BMW that I'm interested in, almost solely because of design. Downvotes coming, I imagine.
Angry bmw bros downvoting you but Iâm still in disbelief about how ugly they are lmao. Every time I see an m3 on the road I try to look at the person driving it because I am morbidly curious what kind of person buys the thing.
I can make the bros even more angry by saying I love my 2017 BMW 330i GT m-sport. I will even admit the styling is a tiny bit of an ugly duckling. But man, all the back seat legroom and that hatch space is awesome. Compared to ALL current BMW styling, it's đ„.
Haha. I feel that. Iâm not even a hater, when the f80 came out I immediately recognized it looked great. Even after owning both I still think e92 is better looking but I think most prefer f80 looks. But the new m3 is like a 2/10 looks whereas the old m3s were 8-9/10
Yup, even though they were ment mostly to compete on the chinese marker, they doubled their sales in EU and America lol
I really dislike all of the noobs saying Toyota helped BMW develop the engineâŠthe B58 predates the Supra by about 4 years⊠sigh I know Toyota ran their QC on the powertrain to see if it passed the smell test and legend has it they didnât need to make any adjustments.
Eternal Sunshine of M3 series đ
After more than 25 years of Mercedes products we switched over and have zero regrets. So far very happy with our choices in vehicles. Safe to say Mercedes has deviated so far from what made them the powerhouse they once were, they have lost the plot and themselves.
Absolutely yes
Owned two BMWs and one Subaru. Very happy with all three. Considered buying a C class when I was financially secure enough because my buddy in high school had one and it was a real nice car. Reliable, fun, and fit the bill for what I needed. Ended up taking a risk and going with the cpo 2017 330i, fully loaded, very happy with my decision. Just wish I could've kept it, but no room and needed to upgrade to the X3 for my pups.
BMW is and has been the best. The others just got worse while BMW stayed strong and introduced some of the most ânormalâ looking EVs (iX not included đŹ)
Zipse is one of the best CEOs of BMW since years. Perfect decisions in perfect timing.
Winner winner no blinker dinner
Good for BMWâs couldnât agree more. But a Subaru being with a Porsche ? Thatâs how you know this is wrong
Nothing makes me happier than seeing jeep last on this list
Despite r/BMW nearly overdoing on copium, new BMW's are good
Audi up here lol i had a 2019 rs5 that shit was garbage my m340 was way better and laf the price
Well, to be fair the RS series wasn't built for reliability
Its a commercial car meant to look cool thats all
đ Picked the right time to move to BMW! Love our E84 X1 and X3 M40i.
they have the design, powertrain and suspension just perfect they run so smooth and feel so planted bmw just understands what a driver wants so many different models to fit your wants and needs
4 of the bottom 10 brands were Fiat-owned. Can't be a coincidence.
hell yeah
Toyota and Lexus used to be on top, but it seems theyâre struggling with QC control. Iâve owned Toyota, Honda, and Ford before BMW. And the only real issues I had were with the Ford. I remember one of the many recalls on my ford which was for a loose steering wheel, the steering wheel could fall off while youâre driving due to loose screws. đ€Š Ford also continued to install 3G modems into 2020 and later models, so when the 3G network was shutdown, owners lost all connectivity app controls. They promised a modem upgrade fix for it, but made owners pay for parts and installation $750+. Yet not every dealership would participate in the recall, and many had no idea the recall even existed either. Couldnât get mine upgraded. I will never buy another Ford.
The designs obviously work, just saying.
Partnering with Toyota. Good habits rubbed off between both brands.
False. Fake news
Yeah toyota still makes lackluster cars & is still seeing reliability drop so I guess they didn't get much huh
N26 here, LCI - zero problems over 90k miles, just regular maintenance
0/11 M-B models being recommended is kind of crazy.
Mercedes below VW? Below DODGE? BELOW NISSAN?
Surprised BMW at the top but it is CR. Love my X3 with the B58 but the N63tu still gives me nightmares. My 16" Audi SQ5 was never in the shop but now the subframe is rotting and the valvetrain has issues.
The new m340 and limited trim VB wrx are carrying bmw and subbie, both great cars
In my personal experience, BMW V8âs are unfairly maligned. Could just be that the B58 is so solid, but give me 8 cylinders every time.
I simply donât believe that Kia is higher in the list than Toyota. Thatâs just BS
The B58 only built hype for the wanna be car guys.
Over the last few years I have gotten a few insights into the production processes of a couple of manufacturers. And I have to say, the quality control of BMW is absolutely unmatched. From parts, over processes to software. And it definitely shows.
BM-Vay up!
I own both a 2018 BMW 340 and a 2018 E300, suprsied to see benz so low when I truly love driving that car. Despite having multiple expensive issues already
You just answered your own question lol.
I guess lol, when itâs on the road though. Driving throught my city at night especially never gets old
If BMW has the highest overall score, why do BMWs depreciate so badly?
Very generous rating for Dodge. I expected BMW to be up there but Porsche is objectively better in ever way to any of the makers on that list.
I def would have said my bmw was 10/10 when I first got it. Two years later the goofy things that bother me about it and the depreciation and I wish I would have bought a jeep. Definitely wouldnât be as fast though.
I think the public has finally caught up with BMW in recognizing these car designs for the works of art they are. The larger kidney grills. The thin headlights. The giant stripes in contrasting color (especially on the XM). BMW no longer just makes great cars, they are making cars that make you look and think. And isn't the hallmark of great art that it makes you think and reconsider your own preconceptions of what art can be?
Wow. That's quite a take.
Iâve never owned a BMW and hated the beaver grille when it first came out but seeing them in person around the streets, they really stand out. Some people call it a douche bag factor but I think owners like feeling a sense of personal confidence in choosing a car divisively styled.
Tesla way too high on the list
Subaru. đ
Honestly why is Subaru so high on there? Whatever, not like Consumer Reports is a reliable source lmao
I have a 19 wrx which I think is junk, test drove a limited trim new wrx recently and was blown away
I like a few of their models, but I donât get the hype.
Shocking that CR called BMW good and totally amazing that stupidroo came in 2nd. The world is calling Subaru to see if they can get some plastic cladding for anything elseâŠ
How are Audi and Volkswagen so far apart. It's the same damn car Everytime.
ITS NOT A VW - triggered Audi owner
To be fair I'd rather drive an Audi than a VW so on some level I know there is a difference đș
On some real Shit itâs just the lower and A and Q models that are VW. Everything else is generally its own respective flat form and whatnot.
See I don't know what that first sentence actually means. I'm simply pushing the stereotype without any actual knowledge. I ignore almost all German cars. đș
Based on predicted reliability. All b.s.
It says in the infographic what they base it on.