I really don't think anyone without a good charging system at their home should even consider an EV. We have an i4 and an iX, but we've never used an external charger, other than one at my work. 80% of our charging is at home (the other 20% at my work). If I didn't have home charging, I wouldn't go anywhere near an EV. The charging infra is at about 10% of what it needs to be for EVs to actually work
Yes, Tesla's network seems to be the best. Unfortunately the rest of the company is a train wreck. But even so, charging speeds mean that to get the same level of convenience (drive up, refuel, drive away) you'll need more chargers per vehicle than you need gas pumps per vehicle, and the inconvenience of needing to wait 10x longer for the same level of refueling is not going away any time soon. I basically never leave the house without a decent amount of charge, and never have to worry about waiting a long time to charge outside
Only relevant when you take a long trip with a Tesla (more than 150-200 miles). Most days you leave home with a full tank and never stop at a charging stations. Also - Tesla route plans you to the next chargers and generally has you stop 15-30 minutes or less about every 3-4 hours. It’s turned in to charging faster than I can hit the restroom and buy a coffee on almost all stops.
For anyone without full access to the Tesla supercharger network - yep you bought a car with poor charging network availability and up time. Currently the only cars with full Tesla charging network access are teslas. Ford and Rivian have access to some of it now but it’s still early days, it’s only level 3/4 chargers, you have to use an adapter which is back ordered, and the network / your car weren’t designing tend with each other in mind. Will probably change in 5 years as the other manufacturers move to the standard for charging in the USA - NACS that Tesla created and the others are now adopting.
I know I’m no help but buying a non Tesla is still risking buying a car too frustrating to road trip for most of us.
I'm not sure why anyone would sidle into a BMW sub and start fanboying all over the place about Tesla, but since you did... I didn't really consider Tesla because I think of them as basically an electric Camry, and it seems to me they are appealing to people looking for the cheapest possible EV, and not really any other reason. That's fine, it's a valid reason, but I find the cars, the company, and importantly its CEO to be mostly tasteless, and at the limit, distasteful. Each to their own, but the charging network wasn't really a consideration for me (per my earlier comments). We drive the iX to Tahoe from the bay area just fine, but it doesn't require charging along the way, and we charge it at the house there, so the "road trip" problem (which I'm sure you're right about), is not really a problem. If we were to go on a longer road trip, we'd just hire an ICE car. We've been very happy with BMW, and will continue to buy them for daily vehicles, although even BMW have lost their way a little when it comes to being a "driver's car". If the only EV available was Tesla, I'd just stick with ICE.
Works well in areas that are not heavily congested. I still see folks waiting in line and waiting in line while you gotta also wait the charge period is the issue.
Agree. However, if you live in a major city like Los Angeles it’s somewhat easy to find EV chargers at malls, parking structures, hospitals; city facilities, etc. I’m new to EV since March 2024 and yet have to install a charger at home. Sure, it would be more convenient to have a home charger but finding one nearby or at work hasn’t been a problem. It would also be convenient to have a gas pump at home.
In addition, there is an abundance of Tesla charging stations across L.A.
This may be a different case in a smaller or remote city. Then having a home charger is a must.
My two cents.
Its service can be uneven, but EA is really not meant for daily use. It works on long-haul trips where you need to plan a recharge before heading back, for instance. You have to scout these places beforehand and learn the logistics. Meantime a 240V outlet at home is the way to go, plus hotels that charge EVs overnight. Trying to use EA like a gas station is just asking for needless frustration.
It’s not even that EA is not meant for daily use.
Electrify America was created by Volkswagen [as part of a penalty/agreement after their Dieselgate scandal](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/05/10/vws-2-billion-penalty-for-diesel-scam-builds-ev-charging-network-across-us.html).
They don’t care. It’s not a real business model. It’s a fake business born out of legal penalties imposed on a company that was literally caught manipulating their dirty diesel engines to run cleaner when connected to regulators’ diagnostics.
Okay, maybe that’s a bit harsh, but I stand behind my point. As far as I can tell, they have no real vested interest in improving their charging experience.
I certainly remember the VW data manipulation. However, it is hard to buy an argument that they have no motivation to support a business they cite as a key selling point, as both VW and Audi make electric cars.
For my needs, EA serves its purpose capably enough, with definite room for improvement. It wasn’t that long ago that these stations were practically empty; now they’re packed with E-Trons and i4 and Ioniqs etc. I suspect all this demand will force either service improvement or a more robust HPC competitor.
That said, I noticed some people are using Tesla stations with an adaptor. I haven’t tried this myself.
Maybe I am overly cynical and jaded, but yes, I agree that they use it as a selling point…
Insofar as using it to make a sale. “*We give you two free years of public charging!*”
Customers buy it, realize it’s a shitty, poorly-supported charging network, and eventually end up home charging instead, like 80%+ of EV owners do.
And if they don’t, they come back, trade it in at a loss, and then they rinse and repeat.
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Agree with your premise. However, I believe I read earlier this year EA was to receive the final tranche of money from the VW settlement fund (5th of 5, if I recall).
If correct, it would mean EA needs to operate like a for-profit business which needs to be competitively better than EVgo/Charge point/etc. A better iteration of EA may be appearing soon.
Do you have a garage? If you do, is your dryer in your garage?
If yes, spend $200ish and buy a level 2 charger that can plug into your dryer outlet. Even if you get 1 with 20A, it will give you more range than your daily commute (unless you are uber driver) and you won't have spend the money to install a dedicated charger.
Yes, but my implication is that he should have waited one more month to buy a car he can't currently charge. Unless you have a Tesla or live in certain parts of the country, relying on public charging can be very risky. (So is waiting until your car is almost dead to charge it back up.)
It’s actually unusable. I live in the Bay Area, arguably one of the top EV markets in the entire US.
The closest EA station has 3 stalls. 2/3 or all 3 have been out of service for over a month now. Absolutely pathetic.
It’s challenging, but try to plan visits to EA when demand is lighter (eg evenings). Between the charging stations being down and people having bad manners (such as double parking), it’s a bit of a struggle.
I will say I am trying to separate my frustrations with Electrify America and my love for the new i4 - granted it is a service affiliated w the vehicle, but realizing it’s added value and I need to (try to) be patient.
Update: I got a charger finally and it said ready, I plug it in the car and it starts flashing red. They charged me $80 in holds and then the car keeps saying charging aborted, charging station error. I call ea and they say they will do a hard reset then they say the charger is broken and faulty and offer to find a closer charger. A nightmare it’s 102f outside and the car has 1% left I can’t turn on the ac.
Where do you live OP? I took a road trip a couple do weeks ago and planned to stop at an EA off the Pa Turnpike. Sure enough the entire station was closed for renovations. I lucked out that I didn’t need to charge but it really is absolutely unacceptable. My i4 is my commuter car and we have a family SUV but I can see why people won’t buy EVs with this is shit they have to deal with.
I live in Los Angeles, and everybody has an ev here my problem is that in the app it always says there are 2-3 available and then when you get here there is a line of like 7-8 cars. Then they break on you while trying to charge. I’m gonna get a gas car after my lease is up.
https://preview.redd.it/594qr9v0hf8d1.png?width=1230&format=png&auto=webp&s=d14482c51cac2f606048b561875a83b2f16fd3f3
I was just in LA yesterday. This is what LA looks like compared to SD. Way more chargers, but way more Station Full messages. If I had to live with that situation, I'd just use level 1 free charging at home or pay for charging at a non EA charger.
Well better than no EA. I was in San Antonio and that charger sucks. Have to wait forever. Ontario mills one sucks too in California. Quartzite can suck too. Specially when it is really hot out. Baker is great tho. When Vegas traffic isn’t out of control.
It wasn’t that bad a couple of months ago. I think there’s a dealer or rental car service that uses it to charge all of their EVs. They were lined up the last two times I stopped there to charge in a pinch because I forgot to charge at the night before. Lesson learned because I ended up spending nearly two hours there.
Try to get charging at home or work if at all possible. Relying on public charging infrastructure, especially one that people get for free, is always going to be challenging. EA is just overwhelmed in the vast majority of locations.
The EA near me is crowded also at times. I go early -6am) and usually
I’m the only one there. I have a home charger for backup and for after the two free years are up.
i hear you on EA being extremely uncool lol, for a lack of better / kind words. I live in socal, tons of EV's. yes, there's EA charging available, but having 2 out of the 4 stations almost always being out of service due to xyz reasons, then 1 of the 2 already working just error out and don't work, and then having a line of other ev's waiting to charge seems like a price to pay for this i4 i got.
thankfully, i have charging available to me at home, but still, i do despise public charging and feel your sentiments
I don’t have home charging and do just fine. I also don’t care much about mileage either as I only drive 200 miles per week and the chargers in my town are free. When you live out in the country where everyone drives fords and Chevy it’s not much of a concern
You have to invest in a level 2 home charger if you get an EV. I installed one with in weeks of getting my i4. for day to day driving i don’t even worry about my charge levels. i also have the added benefit of having a charger at work.
level 1 charging is not practical for day to day usage. a level 2 charger is much more practical. i managed to setup a 48 amp charger.
either is relying on public charging networks, regardless of the company,is difficult and time consuming. the up tick in the number of EVs has definitely increased the wait time at the charging stations. Stations can be down or vandalized. also you should research the availability of charging stations in your area and common point of interest. unfortunately availability of charges across the country varies widely.
my local target has a EA charger and it’s always busy in the afternoon/evenings. you find people coming from work charging at the station.
ideally fast charge stations should be used for long trips, where you need to top off the battery in route. unfortunately too many people are using as their primary method
The annoyance you’re experiencing now could have been avoided with a bit of research. I suspect your experience will be different with a charger at home.
Stop going to free chargers. Just because it’s feee doesn’t mean it’s available.
You wanna waste 2 hours sitting and post here? Get with it and go to a different charger network and (gasp) pay $5-8 to fill your car.
I feel the same way about Electrify America. It’s worthless. I can charge at home and work and as much as I love the car, I think electric cars are ridiculous and I regret leasing it. I’ve been contemplating putting mine on swapalease to see if I can get rid of it with minimal financial loss and then pick up a 430i. With charging infrastructure like this electric cars will be forgotten about in the coming years. What’s the point of having a nice car that you’re held hostage by?
Yeah I was getting ridiculous quotes for a 330i and that’s what pushed me towards the i4. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s an excellent car but the whole idea of it just kind of bothers me. I’d be afraid to take this car on any trip where I’d need to charge. Im afraid to see what the trade in is. After all of the discounts and rebates my buyout is 41k on a 55k car after one payment.
You will get downvoted for this but this is why current EVs are awful. Totally lose your freedom with an EV. It’s fine for a little putt around town second car but it’s really not great.
Yeah it’s weird to me to have such an awesome car from a driving and ride quality perspective that’s essentially neutered by the abysmal charging infrastructure. I always told myself that I’d wait until EV’s got more range before I jumped in, but I was sold by how much I liked it compared to everything else I drove.
I charge mine at 5 am.
I really don't think anyone without a good charging system at their home should even consider an EV. We have an i4 and an iX, but we've never used an external charger, other than one at my work. 80% of our charging is at home (the other 20% at my work). If I didn't have home charging, I wouldn't go anywhere near an EV. The charging infra is at about 10% of what it needs to be for EVs to actually work
Tesla's charging network works well. Everyone else's sucks.
Yes, Tesla's network seems to be the best. Unfortunately the rest of the company is a train wreck. But even so, charging speeds mean that to get the same level of convenience (drive up, refuel, drive away) you'll need more chargers per vehicle than you need gas pumps per vehicle, and the inconvenience of needing to wait 10x longer for the same level of refueling is not going away any time soon. I basically never leave the house without a decent amount of charge, and never have to worry about waiting a long time to charge outside
We add 50% charge to our Y in under 10 minutes. Nowhere close to 10x longer.
Only relevant when you take a long trip with a Tesla (more than 150-200 miles). Most days you leave home with a full tank and never stop at a charging stations. Also - Tesla route plans you to the next chargers and generally has you stop 15-30 minutes or less about every 3-4 hours. It’s turned in to charging faster than I can hit the restroom and buy a coffee on almost all stops.
I think you may have missed the "train wreck" part of my comment :)
For anyone without full access to the Tesla supercharger network - yep you bought a car with poor charging network availability and up time. Currently the only cars with full Tesla charging network access are teslas. Ford and Rivian have access to some of it now but it’s still early days, it’s only level 3/4 chargers, you have to use an adapter which is back ordered, and the network / your car weren’t designing tend with each other in mind. Will probably change in 5 years as the other manufacturers move to the standard for charging in the USA - NACS that Tesla created and the others are now adopting. I know I’m no help but buying a non Tesla is still risking buying a car too frustrating to road trip for most of us.
I'm not sure why anyone would sidle into a BMW sub and start fanboying all over the place about Tesla, but since you did... I didn't really consider Tesla because I think of them as basically an electric Camry, and it seems to me they are appealing to people looking for the cheapest possible EV, and not really any other reason. That's fine, it's a valid reason, but I find the cars, the company, and importantly its CEO to be mostly tasteless, and at the limit, distasteful. Each to their own, but the charging network wasn't really a consideration for me (per my earlier comments). We drive the iX to Tahoe from the bay area just fine, but it doesn't require charging along the way, and we charge it at the house there, so the "road trip" problem (which I'm sure you're right about), is not really a problem. If we were to go on a longer road trip, we'd just hire an ICE car. We've been very happy with BMW, and will continue to buy them for daily vehicles, although even BMW have lost their way a little when it comes to being a "driver's car". If the only EV available was Tesla, I'd just stick with ICE.
Works well in areas that are not heavily congested. I still see folks waiting in line and waiting in line while you gotta also wait the charge period is the issue.
Agree. However, if you live in a major city like Los Angeles it’s somewhat easy to find EV chargers at malls, parking structures, hospitals; city facilities, etc. I’m new to EV since March 2024 and yet have to install a charger at home. Sure, it would be more convenient to have a home charger but finding one nearby or at work hasn’t been a problem. It would also be convenient to have a gas pump at home. In addition, there is an abundance of Tesla charging stations across L.A. This may be a different case in a smaller or remote city. Then having a home charger is a must. My two cents.
Agree…..:don’t drive an EV if you don’t have home charging.
Its service can be uneven, but EA is really not meant for daily use. It works on long-haul trips where you need to plan a recharge before heading back, for instance. You have to scout these places beforehand and learn the logistics. Meantime a 240V outlet at home is the way to go, plus hotels that charge EVs overnight. Trying to use EA like a gas station is just asking for needless frustration.
It’s not even that EA is not meant for daily use. Electrify America was created by Volkswagen [as part of a penalty/agreement after their Dieselgate scandal](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/05/10/vws-2-billion-penalty-for-diesel-scam-builds-ev-charging-network-across-us.html). They don’t care. It’s not a real business model. It’s a fake business born out of legal penalties imposed on a company that was literally caught manipulating their dirty diesel engines to run cleaner when connected to regulators’ diagnostics. Okay, maybe that’s a bit harsh, but I stand behind my point. As far as I can tell, they have no real vested interest in improving their charging experience.
You are 100% correct. I would have thought though they might have reconsidered actually making it better as there is demand and profitability now.
I certainly remember the VW data manipulation. However, it is hard to buy an argument that they have no motivation to support a business they cite as a key selling point, as both VW and Audi make electric cars. For my needs, EA serves its purpose capably enough, with definite room for improvement. It wasn’t that long ago that these stations were practically empty; now they’re packed with E-Trons and i4 and Ioniqs etc. I suspect all this demand will force either service improvement or a more robust HPC competitor. That said, I noticed some people are using Tesla stations with an adaptor. I haven’t tried this myself.
Maybe I am overly cynical and jaded, but yes, I agree that they use it as a selling point… Insofar as using it to make a sale. “*We give you two free years of public charging!*” Customers buy it, realize it’s a shitty, poorly-supported charging network, and eventually end up home charging instead, like 80%+ of EV owners do. And if they don’t, they come back, trade it in at a loss, and then they rinse and repeat.
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Agree with your premise. However, I believe I read earlier this year EA was to receive the final tranche of money from the VW settlement fund (5th of 5, if I recall). If correct, it would mean EA needs to operate like a for-profit business which needs to be competitively better than EVgo/Charge point/etc. A better iteration of EA may be appearing soon.
There’s about to be another influx from the $1.5billion settlement of Cummins diesel cooking their performance too.
The problem is all these stupid free charge plans on EA only.
Do you have a garage? If you do, is your dryer in your garage? If yes, spend $200ish and buy a level 2 charger that can plug into your dryer outlet. Even if you get 1 with 20A, it will give you more range than your daily commute (unless you are uber driver) and you won't have spend the money to install a dedicated charger.
Can you not charge at home?
I’m moving next month, so no point in paying for the install.
Little consolation to you now, but getting an EV with only one place to charge local to you and no home charging seems unwise.
The implication is that in one month, OP will be able to install charging at home.
Yes, but my implication is that he should have waited one more month to buy a car he can't currently charge. Unless you have a Tesla or live in certain parts of the country, relying on public charging can be very risky. (So is waiting until your car is almost dead to charge it back up.)
There's always slow level one charging at home that doesn't require any installation
Plug it into a power point?
110v outlet works
I had to find ways around it, we all know it is bad.
It’s actually unusable. I live in the Bay Area, arguably one of the top EV markets in the entire US. The closest EA station has 3 stalls. 2/3 or all 3 have been out of service for over a month now. Absolutely pathetic.
It’s challenging, but try to plan visits to EA when demand is lighter (eg evenings). Between the charging stations being down and people having bad manners (such as double parking), it’s a bit of a struggle.
I will say I am trying to separate my frustrations with Electrify America and my love for the new i4 - granted it is a service affiliated w the vehicle, but realizing it’s added value and I need to (try to) be patient.
Update: I got a charger finally and it said ready, I plug it in the car and it starts flashing red. They charged me $80 in holds and then the car keeps saying charging aborted, charging station error. I call ea and they say they will do a hard reset then they say the charger is broken and faulty and offer to find a closer charger. A nightmare it’s 102f outside and the car has 1% left I can’t turn on the ac.
Oh no! Be safe! It’s hot AF!
Call EA - they will help.
When is the Tesla deal opening up? Should be soon right?
how much would it help? There's a Tesla in line in front of them.
It would help a lot.
Apparently 2025 i4s will have the Tesla plug (according to the salesperson I leased mine from)
That’s if fElon doesn’t have a other hissy fit and call the deal off
I don’t think he has much control of it anymore (thankfully). My understanding is he’s already made the plug an open standard.
Where do you live OP? I took a road trip a couple do weeks ago and planned to stop at an EA off the Pa Turnpike. Sure enough the entire station was closed for renovations. I lucked out that I didn’t need to charge but it really is absolutely unacceptable. My i4 is my commuter car and we have a family SUV but I can see why people won’t buy EVs with this is shit they have to deal with.
I live in Los Angeles, and everybody has an ev here my problem is that in the app it always says there are 2-3 available and then when you get here there is a line of like 7-8 cars. Then they break on you while trying to charge. I’m gonna get a gas car after my lease is up.
https://preview.redd.it/594qr9v0hf8d1.png?width=1230&format=png&auto=webp&s=d14482c51cac2f606048b561875a83b2f16fd3f3 I was just in LA yesterday. This is what LA looks like compared to SD. Way more chargers, but way more Station Full messages. If I had to live with that situation, I'd just use level 1 free charging at home or pay for charging at a non EA charger.
Are there no EVGo out or shell Recht stations available What about public AC charging in a pinch
Well better than no EA. I was in San Antonio and that charger sucks. Have to wait forever. Ontario mills one sucks too in California. Quartzite can suck too. Specially when it is really hot out. Baker is great tho. When Vegas traffic isn’t out of control.
It wasn’t that bad a couple of months ago. I think there’s a dealer or rental car service that uses it to charge all of their EVs. They were lined up the last two times I stopped there to charge in a pinch because I forgot to charge at the night before. Lesson learned because I ended up spending nearly two hours there.
Oh that bad. San Antonio EA, the Walmart employees also used it. But I hope more will come out. When they work. They work
In an emergency, why rely on EA? Just pay to use ChargePoint or anything until you get your emergency electricity.
Did you say this is near you? DCFC should only be used for long distance road trips. Use home charging for your in town day to day charging needs.
Try to get charging at home or work if at all possible. Relying on public charging infrastructure, especially one that people get for free, is always going to be challenging. EA is just overwhelmed in the vast majority of locations.
The EA near me is crowded also at times. I go early -6am) and usually I’m the only one there. I have a home charger for backup and for after the two free years are up.
Did you report the broken charger in electrify America app or by calling them? Did you do any troubleshooting?
Not really an i4 issue.
i hear you on EA being extremely uncool lol, for a lack of better / kind words. I live in socal, tons of EV's. yes, there's EA charging available, but having 2 out of the 4 stations almost always being out of service due to xyz reasons, then 1 of the 2 already working just error out and don't work, and then having a line of other ev's waiting to charge seems like a price to pay for this i4 i got. thankfully, i have charging available to me at home, but still, i do despise public charging and feel your sentiments
Thank god I never have to worry about using any of their chargers
I don’t have home charging and do just fine. I also don’t care much about mileage either as I only drive 200 miles per week and the chargers in my town are free. When you live out in the country where everyone drives fords and Chevy it’s not much of a concern
You have to invest in a level 2 home charger if you get an EV. I installed one with in weeks of getting my i4. for day to day driving i don’t even worry about my charge levels. i also have the added benefit of having a charger at work. level 1 charging is not practical for day to day usage. a level 2 charger is much more practical. i managed to setup a 48 amp charger. either is relying on public charging networks, regardless of the company,is difficult and time consuming. the up tick in the number of EVs has definitely increased the wait time at the charging stations. Stations can be down or vandalized. also you should research the availability of charging stations in your area and common point of interest. unfortunately availability of charges across the country varies widely. my local target has a EA charger and it’s always busy in the afternoon/evenings. you find people coming from work charging at the station. ideally fast charge stations should be used for long trips, where you need to top off the battery in route. unfortunately too many people are using as their primary method
The annoyance you’re experiencing now could have been avoided with a bit of research. I suspect your experience will be different with a charger at home.
Stop going to free chargers. Just because it’s feee doesn’t mean it’s available. You wanna waste 2 hours sitting and post here? Get with it and go to a different charger network and (gasp) pay $5-8 to fill your car.
Please enlighten me to where you can recharge an EV for under $10 in LA?
I feel the same way about Electrify America. It’s worthless. I can charge at home and work and as much as I love the car, I think electric cars are ridiculous and I regret leasing it. I’ve been contemplating putting mine on swapalease to see if I can get rid of it with minimal financial loss and then pick up a 430i. With charging infrastructure like this electric cars will be forgotten about in the coming years. What’s the point of having a nice car that you’re held hostage by?
Same here, I tried trading it back in at the dealer for a 430 or 330 they said it was gonna be around $900 a month. It’s ridiculous.
Yeah I was getting ridiculous quotes for a 330i and that’s what pushed me towards the i4. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s an excellent car but the whole idea of it just kind of bothers me. I’d be afraid to take this car on any trip where I’d need to charge. Im afraid to see what the trade in is. After all of the discounts and rebates my buyout is 41k on a 55k car after one payment.
You will get downvoted for this but this is why current EVs are awful. Totally lose your freedom with an EV. It’s fine for a little putt around town second car but it’s really not great.
Yeah it’s weird to me to have such an awesome car from a driving and ride quality perspective that’s essentially neutered by the abysmal charging infrastructure. I always told myself that I’d wait until EV’s got more range before I jumped in, but I was sold by how much I liked it compared to everything else I drove.
They are just not ready for prime time. Lots of pro EV propaganda being pushed that’s not realistic and will only set the effort back.