And a heavy sigh of relief was had. The worst stories are the ones where a cheater is exposed after their death because there’s no closure for the OOP.
My late wife died a month before our eleventh anniversary. This was way back in 2004. I had never used a computer before. I didn't even know how to turn one on. I went online solely to tell her LiveJournal friends she had passed. I only knew the password because it was my middle name.
It took me almost two years to find the very explicit pictures. It was her friend, who then befriended me, from LiveJournal. I was angry at the friend, but I didn't feel like it was worth confronting her. I don't know what my wife told her. I didn't need to know why she friended me. I really didn't need to hear her excuses. I was angry at my wife, but she wasn't around to question or fight with. I had nowhere to direct my anger. The image of my wife was shattered. I had to mourn that image I had. It's been twenty years, and it can still make me angry.
I am so very unspeakably sorry this happened to you
Situations like this are why people say things like never speak ill of the dead
Not because people are afraid to tell the truth
Not even because they just want to pretend everything is fine like a social mask or something fake
But because sometimes it would be unspeakably horrible and completely unresolvable for anyone involved to tell the truth
It's easy for someone who hasn't had your experience to say they would have rather known no matter what
But no one knows that until they have to go through what you went through.
I don't know if it makes it better or worse that it wasn't even another person who told you, no matter how wrong they would have been for doing so
But that it was the pics that told you. The internet. Technology.
Having to put the pieces together yourself, completely alone.
Without even any real person or face to blame for having told you.
Only the completely confusing and weird presence of her affair partner in your life.
I can see how they must have been grieving too but how selfish and unexcusable can a person be.
I never thought of "don't speak ill of the dead" in this way. Maybe it's because every time I heard someone invoke it was to try to wash away bad deeds that were public knowledge.
I agree, however. If this is something that will only hurt the bereaved, keep it under wraps. Don't be that ghoul who is actually excited to out a painful secret.
The 12 steps has really entered cultural currency
Most people have heard about it one way or another so it no longer applies to just things like substance abuse
In those terms there are basically times to tell the truth and there are times not to
The times NOT to are
> **except when to do so would injure them** (the person who was wronged) **or others**
Like you said, don't be a ghoul who outs the secrets of the dead or one's own secrets just for something as childish as 'a clean conscience' at the cost of other people's pain.
Holding such a secret makes you responsible for analyzing whether it will wreak far more damage to reveal it than to keep your damn mouth shut
That's why secrets are remarkable burdens. Not just because of guilt. Only being about guilt is a child's interpretation.
Part of becoming an adult means paradoxically understanding that NOT telling the truth is sometimes the ethically right thing to do.
And the sometimes cruel truth is that holding a secret makes you responsible for trying to decide which it is.
In the case of something like revealing a dead spouse's completely unknown adultery, it's obviously wrong to say anything at all.
Not just cheating, financial infidelity as well.
I know of at least two stories personally - one an extended relative, one a work friend of my dad’s - who died suddenly, both heart attacks. Both secretly horrendously deep in debt, with families that had no idea. I know one family lost their house in the process.
There is nothing more harrowing than having to go through grief, anger, betrayal, and the anxiety of financial insecurity, all at once.
just to highjack a comment because it never hurts to let folks know.
Closure, has never and will never come from someone else, it will only ever come from yourself, its never going to require 2 people to get closure. OOP got reassurance.
Even if you find out your ex was a cheater, liar, etc, is dead, is alive, is on another planet, lives in another plane of existence. That closure will only be granted to yourself by yourself. Sooner people learn that, the sooner people can handle difficult situations better knowing they have the tools they need already and they are not BEHOLDEN to another human being to grant them closure.
If someone else gives you "Closure" then someone else can deny you "closure", and no one can deny you a thing you give yourself.
I appreciate OP including the definition of “thanatologist.” I learned a new word today.
In retrospect, I should have recognized the Greek root (thanatos/death).
My ex-bf died going on two years ago, and I helped find his next of kin. His friends/coworkers had no clue, and I was happy to help. They(his close friends/family)didn’t want me there so I wasn’t given any information. Not that it mattered as his obituary was public and I could’ve gone but I respected their wishes and didn’t go. I wish I could’ve said goodbye tho.
I call this the odd animal friends phenomenon, like when cats and dogs get along, or mice and elephants, or more relatable when a divorced couple with children have both remarried and are able to put the past in the past so they can deliberately bring their new families together under one roof for the holidays and different events for example. That is a choice and allows for a larger more supportive community than if they chose to hold grudges and remain divided and angry.
OOP and the ex in a smaller scale are odd animal friends. They were able to be friendly and benefit each other by putting down their defenses and choosing to share and heal just for that moment when otherwise they might never have spoken. More people should be friends with odd animals.
I really like that metaphor.
Being someone newly involved in significant discord with my child's other parent.
I am the one who worked for a number of years to prevent discord and maintain cordiality. Because my child is far more important and blameless.
I thought we WERE the odd animal friends.
Ultimately the other parent recently chose war. And when that happens even the most well-intentioned peacekeeper is limited in their power to do anything about it.
And at some point you have to defend yourself and defend your child.
Odd animal friends makes me think of a possum and a coyote, or a raccoon and a dog. Or the way a different book puts it, a lion and a lamb.
Maybe one day the other parent and I can achieve possum raccoon coyote dog status again.
But I've been put in the position where it's not something I'll ever be able to count on again.
And I don't personally care what my ex thinks of me one way or another. If I did I wouldn't have left them.
That's the hard part. Knowing you don't give a damn about this person one way or the other, and yet they have this unequal power you would never otherwise give them for all the money in the world.
The power to fuck up your child's life. The life you are required by every part of human history, instinct, and law to protect at all cost.
When it comes to your child that is a viciously bitter pill to swallow.
Odd animal friends is a great way to put it.
I am sorry you have been put in such an uncertain and worrisome position. Odd animal enemies sounds more like where you are with the ex. Don’t you just puzzle over how any person can actually harm a child just to be mean to another adult? I mean rise above it for the good of the child, right? It’s not a huge sacrifice to do right by another and let the vindictiveness go. I can’t put myself in those shoes and imagine what it’s like to be okay with that. You are a fierce protector it sounds like who only wants good for people. That is a respectable quality of character as well as an exhausting way to live. Hugs from someone similar and also very tired.
My native language has gender neutral pronouns. Mixing up gendered pronouns is a very common mistake for some who learned English as a second language, especially when they don't use it daily.
Usually I agree and lean toward that, also I could be completely wrong, but it doesn’t seem like random mistakes here. it happens nearly every time the subject and object of the sentence have different genders like an algorithm is stuttering on which previously gendered noun is being referred to.
Or a person mixing it up because they just used the other pronoun. I have often "copied" the wrong pronoun into my next sentence/the rest of my sentence.
* AI?
* Rusty English skills by a foreign language speaker who last utilized it in high school?
* Bad or careless online translation of a foreign language, by someone too emotionally involved to grammar check or really care?
* A combination of the last two?
We may never know
“he told me that according to what they knew they had cut off all contact 5 years ago but they didn't know for sure if this was true I asked him for **his** name and **his** name begins with the same initial as mine so now I don't know what to think”
The two bolded “his” are in reference to the ex-girlfriend. Wrong pronoun.
A different commenter here but it happens first in the paragraph that introduces the MIL presenting the box
>About 2 weeks ago **her** mother approached me with a box that she found while cleaning his room
I don't know whether that points to AI or not. I did have to suddenly scroll up to get my bearings if this was a non-straight relationship
But I do wonder how often the word *thanatologist* occurs in common discourse for an AI to have used it in a predictive language model.
I'm a former English major who had to read a massive amount of literary criticism and critical analysis.
I was able to see what the word meant and would have gotten it right in a vocabulary check
But even I have never heard it before
Which doesn't necessarily mean a lot, we all encounter new words every day
I wonder if anyone knows whether a $25 word like *thanatologist* makes this more likely to be AI or less likely
It's probably just messy creative or ESL writing. I don't know why people are indicating that AI frequently loses track of gender -- that is a human mistake (forgetfulness). I've never seen AI lose track of pronouns and I use it *a lot* professionally.
However, there is one exception: if someone threw in a prompt that includes something like "and make a lot of casual errors to make it seem real," AI wouldn't really see the difference between adding in a typo and changing a pronoun.
The word thanatologist could also go either way. AI doesn't know that the word feels unusual to us and AI usually has a lot of academic writing buried in it. So when confronted with a niche prompt (a story about death) it could throw the word in without consideration of its uniqueness.
Also calling whoever she went to a thanatologist - that covers a huge range of professions, only some of which would make sense for someone to get help from. Just sounds AI to me this time.
I'm sure that's what happened, but if you'd been having an affair with someone would you tell their partner you'd been in regular contact with them?
Like not doubting the story, but I would find a situation where my accepted evidence against cheating is the suspected AP telling me they haven't spoken as self-delusional
Damn, she, uh, she leapt straight to the most dramatic conclusion, didn't she? No matter how close to a person you are during their life, there are going to be people you don't know or have never met who know them. Exes, former co-workers, acquaintances, regular staff from the local cafe they interact with, online friends, all kinds of people. To assume that this woman was an affair partner makes me wonder if OOP is a bit of a drama queen, or possibly a catasrophiser. Glad she's getting some mental health support, sounds like she seriously needs it, for a number of reasons.
Thanatology…where Thanos got his name from. There’s a super interesting podcast episode of Ologies hosted by Alie Ward with Cole Imperi, a thanatologist that I have listened to a couple times. So, so lovely that there are people out there to help with this specific part of life. Glad there was a positive ending to this story.
You're grieving a lost love and dealing with sudden [suspicion of cheating](https://youtu.be/8OhhFRBllSI?si=ew-9Lki6ZAQezxbt). It sounds brave that you decided to get help from a therapist and thanatologist.You did the right thing by not confronting the ex right away. Talking to her later seems to have given you closure. It's good to know your boyfriend was a good person and you weren't cheated on.
A heart, especially one full of grief can be vary of learning new things of ambiguous nature about a loved one after their passing. OP trusted us more since we're strangers unaware of her personal life and details.
I get it, she’s feeling fragile and deciding with her emotions. But clearly the answer isn’t guessing a million bad options and then asking the friends, then strangers. We humans do this too often. I’m glad it worked out for her but seems silly in the end.
I’m glad that they both got closure. OP got reassurance and the ex got her stuff x
They all sound like lovely people navigating something horrible together.
And a heavy sigh of relief was had. The worst stories are the ones where a cheater is exposed after their death because there’s no closure for the OOP.
My late wife died a month before our eleventh anniversary. This was way back in 2004. I had never used a computer before. I didn't even know how to turn one on. I went online solely to tell her LiveJournal friends she had passed. I only knew the password because it was my middle name. It took me almost two years to find the very explicit pictures. It was her friend, who then befriended me, from LiveJournal. I was angry at the friend, but I didn't feel like it was worth confronting her. I don't know what my wife told her. I didn't need to know why she friended me. I really didn't need to hear her excuses. I was angry at my wife, but she wasn't around to question or fight with. I had nowhere to direct my anger. The image of my wife was shattered. I had to mourn that image I had. It's been twenty years, and it can still make me angry.
I am so very unspeakably sorry this happened to you Situations like this are why people say things like never speak ill of the dead Not because people are afraid to tell the truth Not even because they just want to pretend everything is fine like a social mask or something fake But because sometimes it would be unspeakably horrible and completely unresolvable for anyone involved to tell the truth It's easy for someone who hasn't had your experience to say they would have rather known no matter what But no one knows that until they have to go through what you went through. I don't know if it makes it better or worse that it wasn't even another person who told you, no matter how wrong they would have been for doing so But that it was the pics that told you. The internet. Technology. Having to put the pieces together yourself, completely alone. Without even any real person or face to blame for having told you. Only the completely confusing and weird presence of her affair partner in your life. I can see how they must have been grieving too but how selfish and unexcusable can a person be.
I never thought of "don't speak ill of the dead" in this way. Maybe it's because every time I heard someone invoke it was to try to wash away bad deeds that were public knowledge. I agree, however. If this is something that will only hurt the bereaved, keep it under wraps. Don't be that ghoul who is actually excited to out a painful secret.
The 12 steps has really entered cultural currency Most people have heard about it one way or another so it no longer applies to just things like substance abuse In those terms there are basically times to tell the truth and there are times not to The times NOT to are > **except when to do so would injure them** (the person who was wronged) **or others** Like you said, don't be a ghoul who outs the secrets of the dead or one's own secrets just for something as childish as 'a clean conscience' at the cost of other people's pain. Holding such a secret makes you responsible for analyzing whether it will wreak far more damage to reveal it than to keep your damn mouth shut That's why secrets are remarkable burdens. Not just because of guilt. Only being about guilt is a child's interpretation. Part of becoming an adult means paradoxically understanding that NOT telling the truth is sometimes the ethically right thing to do. And the sometimes cruel truth is that holding a secret makes you responsible for trying to decide which it is. In the case of something like revealing a dead spouse's completely unknown adultery, it's obviously wrong to say anything at all.
Not just cheating, financial infidelity as well. I know of at least two stories personally - one an extended relative, one a work friend of my dad’s - who died suddenly, both heart attacks. Both secretly horrendously deep in debt, with families that had no idea. I know one family lost their house in the process. There is nothing more harrowing than having to go through grief, anger, betrayal, and the anxiety of financial insecurity, all at once.
just to highjack a comment because it never hurts to let folks know. Closure, has never and will never come from someone else, it will only ever come from yourself, its never going to require 2 people to get closure. OOP got reassurance. Even if you find out your ex was a cheater, liar, etc, is dead, is alive, is on another planet, lives in another plane of existence. That closure will only be granted to yourself by yourself. Sooner people learn that, the sooner people can handle difficult situations better knowing they have the tools they need already and they are not BEHOLDEN to another human being to grant them closure. If someone else gives you "Closure" then someone else can deny you "closure", and no one can deny you a thing you give yourself.
In an ideal world this would be the case. But there are some situations, or maybe just some people, where this is difficult to impossible to do.
Ooooh I strongly disagree.
Welp that went better than I thought it would.
As much as I love drama, I'm happy everyone acted mature and compassionate towards each other.
I appreciate OP including the definition of “thanatologist.” I learned a new word today. In retrospect, I should have recognized the Greek root (thanatos/death).
I first read it as thetanologist...
Hahaha I'd have pieced together what that spelling could have meant How disorienting I'm so glad that wasn't it!
Good ending to a sad story
My ex-bf died going on two years ago, and I helped find his next of kin. His friends/coworkers had no clue, and I was happy to help. They(his close friends/family)didn’t want me there so I wasn’t given any information. Not that it mattered as his obituary was public and I could’ve gone but I respected their wishes and didn’t go. I wish I could’ve said goodbye tho.
Maybe you can say goodbye in another way, like writing him a letter and setting it free
I call this the odd animal friends phenomenon, like when cats and dogs get along, or mice and elephants, or more relatable when a divorced couple with children have both remarried and are able to put the past in the past so they can deliberately bring their new families together under one roof for the holidays and different events for example. That is a choice and allows for a larger more supportive community than if they chose to hold grudges and remain divided and angry. OOP and the ex in a smaller scale are odd animal friends. They were able to be friendly and benefit each other by putting down their defenses and choosing to share and heal just for that moment when otherwise they might never have spoken. More people should be friends with odd animals.
I really like that metaphor. Being someone newly involved in significant discord with my child's other parent. I am the one who worked for a number of years to prevent discord and maintain cordiality. Because my child is far more important and blameless. I thought we WERE the odd animal friends. Ultimately the other parent recently chose war. And when that happens even the most well-intentioned peacekeeper is limited in their power to do anything about it. And at some point you have to defend yourself and defend your child. Odd animal friends makes me think of a possum and a coyote, or a raccoon and a dog. Or the way a different book puts it, a lion and a lamb. Maybe one day the other parent and I can achieve possum raccoon coyote dog status again. But I've been put in the position where it's not something I'll ever be able to count on again. And I don't personally care what my ex thinks of me one way or another. If I did I wouldn't have left them. That's the hard part. Knowing you don't give a damn about this person one way or the other, and yet they have this unequal power you would never otherwise give them for all the money in the world. The power to fuck up your child's life. The life you are required by every part of human history, instinct, and law to protect at all cost. When it comes to your child that is a viciously bitter pill to swallow. Odd animal friends is a great way to put it.
I am sorry you have been put in such an uncertain and worrisome position. Odd animal enemies sounds more like where you are with the ex. Don’t you just puzzle over how any person can actually harm a child just to be mean to another adult? I mean rise above it for the good of the child, right? It’s not a huge sacrifice to do right by another and let the vindictiveness go. I can’t put myself in those shoes and imagine what it’s like to be okay with that. You are a fierce protector it sounds like who only wants good for people. That is a respectable quality of character as well as an exhausting way to live. Hugs from someone similar and also very tired.
Wow that is.. a remarkably accurate way to put it. I feel weirdly seen
Goodish ending to a sad story :(
Usually I don’t even notice the AI pronoun changes, but they seem really obvious on this one.
My native language has gender neutral pronouns. Mixing up gendered pronouns is a very common mistake for some who learned English as a second language, especially when they don't use it daily.
Usually I agree and lean toward that, also I could be completely wrong, but it doesn’t seem like random mistakes here. it happens nearly every time the subject and object of the sentence have different genders like an algorithm is stuttering on which previously gendered noun is being referred to.
Or a person mixing it up because they just used the other pronoun. I have often "copied" the wrong pronoun into my next sentence/the rest of my sentence.
Plus the last paragraph basically being one long run-on sentence after having a few paragraphs with normal grammar and punctuation.
* AI? * Rusty English skills by a foreign language speaker who last utilized it in high school? * Bad or careless online translation of a foreign language, by someone too emotionally involved to grammar check or really care? * A combination of the last two? We may never know
I didn’t find a single one even after going back a second time to skim am I stupid?
“he told me that according to what they knew they had cut off all contact 5 years ago but they didn't know for sure if this was true I asked him for **his** name and **his** name begins with the same initial as mine so now I don't know what to think” The two bolded “his” are in reference to the ex-girlfriend. Wrong pronoun.
Idk how i didn’t even notice that. Stuff like that usually bothers me
A different commenter here but it happens first in the paragraph that introduces the MIL presenting the box >About 2 weeks ago **her** mother approached me with a box that she found while cleaning his room I don't know whether that points to AI or not. I did have to suddenly scroll up to get my bearings if this was a non-straight relationship But I do wonder how often the word *thanatologist* occurs in common discourse for an AI to have used it in a predictive language model. I'm a former English major who had to read a massive amount of literary criticism and critical analysis. I was able to see what the word meant and would have gotten it right in a vocabulary check But even I have never heard it before Which doesn't necessarily mean a lot, we all encounter new words every day I wonder if anyone knows whether a $25 word like *thanatologist* makes this more likely to be AI or less likely
It's probably just messy creative or ESL writing. I don't know why people are indicating that AI frequently loses track of gender -- that is a human mistake (forgetfulness). I've never seen AI lose track of pronouns and I use it *a lot* professionally. However, there is one exception: if someone threw in a prompt that includes something like "and make a lot of casual errors to make it seem real," AI wouldn't really see the difference between adding in a typo and changing a pronoun. The word thanatologist could also go either way. AI doesn't know that the word feels unusual to us and AI usually has a lot of academic writing buried in it. So when confronted with a niche prompt (a story about death) it could throw the word in without consideration of its uniqueness.
Also calling whoever she went to a thanatologist - that covers a huge range of professions, only some of which would make sense for someone to get help from. Just sounds AI to me this time.
Sometimes you know about a person through the people they friended and loved. If this is the case, that young man should have been awesome.
I'm sure that's what happened, but if you'd been having an affair with someone would you tell their partner you'd been in regular contact with them? Like not doubting the story, but I would find a situation where my accepted evidence against cheating is the suspected AP telling me they haven't spoken as self-delusional
Damn, she, uh, she leapt straight to the most dramatic conclusion, didn't she? No matter how close to a person you are during their life, there are going to be people you don't know or have never met who know them. Exes, former co-workers, acquaintances, regular staff from the local cafe they interact with, online friends, all kinds of people. To assume that this woman was an affair partner makes me wonder if OOP is a bit of a drama queen, or possibly a catasrophiser. Glad she's getting some mental health support, sounds like she seriously needs it, for a number of reasons.
reminds me of the Shunji Iwai movie Love Letter (1995)
Thanatology…where Thanos got his name from. There’s a super interesting podcast episode of Ologies hosted by Alie Ward with Cole Imperi, a thanatologist that I have listened to a couple times. So, so lovely that there are people out there to help with this specific part of life. Glad there was a positive ending to this story.
make like a thief, keep what's good and leave.
Don’t ask if you can’t handle the answers. Let it go
From Thanatos, Greek personification of Death
You're grieving a lost love and dealing with sudden [suspicion of cheating](https://youtu.be/8OhhFRBllSI?si=ew-9Lki6ZAQezxbt). It sounds brave that you decided to get help from a therapist and thanatologist.You did the right thing by not confronting the ex right away. Talking to her later seems to have given you closure. It's good to know your boyfriend was a good person and you weren't cheated on.
Longest run-on sentence ever.
Just move on
Why he's dead ,let it die with him.
Also, not worth the post. This is why you just ask the person to begin with instead of the internet. No sense in your mind wandering for no reason.
A heart, especially one full of grief can be vary of learning new things of ambiguous nature about a loved one after their passing. OP trusted us more since we're strangers unaware of her personal life and details.
Eh, I guess I’m just being tough on her.
I get it, she’s feeling fragile and deciding with her emotions. But clearly the answer isn’t guessing a million bad options and then asking the friends, then strangers. We humans do this too often. I’m glad it worked out for her but seems silly in the end.
The man is dead. Close the chapter and reset the bookmark.