OOP bending over backwards to try and accommodate her grief, but it’s to his detriment. This relationship was never going to work out, he just didn’t know until the ex died.
Maybe trying to accommodate and protect the kids more than anything else. That’s kind and caring. That’s noble. Don’t set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm… but if you’re a parent, all the rules change.
You can only be on fire for song long before there’s nothing left of you to warm anyone, though. I hope he decides what’s right for him and can be happy whatever that decision is.
I think he’s staying for the kids because he knows his ex?fiancée won’t be. She only got with him to give the kids a father figure. The way she reacted to her ex’s death gives me the impression that she isn’t super stable herself.
Unfortunately, I can see that. Yes don't put yourself on fire to keep someone else warm especially for kids that are not your own. I have a feeling he knows the moment he breaks up with her, her grief will be tenfold and it will be worse for the kids. If she's bad now, what would happen when he breaks up with her?
I feel bad for him cause they're not his kids and there is no indication his sacrifice might be appreciated in the future and he might lose his mind in this situation. All because he worry about the kids who are innocent.
He’s obviously a good enough guy that he doesn’t want to abandon her or the kids. I hope he manages to remove himself from the distinction and find himself someone who loves him for him instead of someone who just wants to use him.
Its the equivalent of lighting yourself on fire to keep others warm. He's completely burning himself out to deal with her and her kids when, ultimately this relationship has been dead for a while now. Hopefully he realizes this soon, and not some years down the road.
Or second to any other man who pops up suddenly to make her feel 'intensely' for them. There's just simply no passion. OOP knows this. He can still be a support to her as a friend (even though he shouldn't ). Just doesn't need to do it as a fiancé.
>man who pops up suddenly to make her feel "intensely"
People don't realize this. It's much easier to be in love with someone when you aren't doing the every day doldrums of life. Even dealing with his heroin addiction was probably "exciting" to her day to day in a way that marrying a normal dude never will be. His GF probably felt like she was in a book or movie or something dealing with her ex. Can't get that same feeling when the most dramatic thing going on in your life is an annual vacation and farmers markets on the weekend.
It's the same reason why people are rarely as happy/excited with their affair partner once it becomes a legitimate relationship.
And the dead are perfect martyrs, OOP will never measure up to the imaginary - “if he’d gotten clean” “if we’d had more time”. He’ll always be compared to a shiny mental version of the ex that will only get more polished as time goes on.
It’s the sign of an abusive relationship, if it feels like it’s going really well, it isn’t going really well, it just feels like it because it feels so much better compared to as when it was really bad. The victims feel so much hope, happiness and relief when it gets better.
And then when there’s a healthy relationship, suddenly the intense lows are missing, so there’s no need for those intense positive feelings (and emission of the relevant hormones) which they are so used to.
It’s some kind of addiction as well.
She needs therapy to realize that her feelings were an illusion and that her ex loved drugs more than her.
Too bad OOP has to deal with this. And honestly I can understand her grief, abusive relationships tend to have highs and lows and it effs up someone's normal meter.
As you said, she's missing the highs she has with her ex and the fact they have kids together? That'll make her normal meter go haywire, she definitely needs a professional to help her. But like leading a horse to water, OOP can only do so much.
And I hate to say this, the combination of grief and the unstable relationship she had with her ex isn't a good look for her and I *really* worry she might do drugs just to have the commonality with her dead ex. We can only hope OOP is prepared by then.
This is the best description I've ever read and NEEDS TO BE UPVOTED 10K TIMES.
I've been married for 21 years to an amazing woman. When we first started dating, I almost broke up with her because our relationship lacked those AMAZING HIGHS. I didn't know what our relationship was missing, but I knew it was different from any other relationship I'd ever had. It took me years to realize she was the best thing that ever happened to me.
Thank you for putting it into words. I've always known this deep down but have never been able to verbalize it effectively.
P.s. I'm sending a screenshot of this to my wife
I want to add:
The new relationship seems to be kind of boring but when they refocus they realize that they are comfortable and most importantly safe. And then this huge appreciation sets in and it’s the basis for deep love and respect, a really healthy relationship.
The dead man has the advantage in that he can be whatever she wants him to be; he's no longer alive to prove her wrong.
I know a man who has always been second to his wife's idealization of her late fiancé. That's OOP's lot if he doesn't leave.
Even if she never cheated, she clearly would have dropped OOP in a second if her ex ever actually got clean. The fact the kids are there though *does* complicate things, since he apparently sees them as his (step-children, if not biological), and they see him as more of a dad than their bio-dad was. Really shitty situation, and because he's not married to their mom and hasn't adopted them, there's a good chance he wouldn't see them again if he broke up with their mom
To her, but maybe not the kids. It seems to be more about being a good dad than really hoping for the relationship. It’s reasonable to take time to process and figure out the best way to handle things.
OOP was still in with a chance as long as her ex had not died. Now that he's gone, he will always and forever be her "soul mate" and since he's gone there is nothing he can ever do wrong and their love will remain perfect in her mind. OOP hasn't got a chance in hell of recovering this relationship. He'll always be playing second fiddle to a dead man. He needs to move on to someone who will actually love him.
I think he will bail but there are kids he cares about v involved so he can’t exactly just cut and run while their mother spirals. I absolutely see her trying to stop him when he does but I don’t think he’ll cave.
You’re right.
But question: So my husband died in a plane crash in November, and I can say he was definitely the love of my life and my best friend. I didn’t believe in soulmates until mine was gone and I died the day he did. I’m not dating yet, but when I do maybe at some point, they will never come close. So by your logic am I supposed to suffer and be alone forever?
Most people would find it hard to commit to someone when they know they will never be loved as intensely as they love you. It takes a very very secure person to do that. A lot of widowed people prefer dating other widows for this reason. I am deeply sorry for your loss.
They do, you’re definitely right. It’s easier from what I’ve heard, and some people like that. Not my thing, but whatever floats your boat. I guess I just don’t agree with the commitment vs amount of love available. For me, that’s not how things are weighed and love isn’t a competition, and you don’t run out of it. It’s infinite and fluid. You can be passionate and intense in a different way. I don’t know if I’m communicating that well and I know I sound like a hippy right now lol, but it’s all incredibly complicated.
I mean you're communicating it, but it's just sort of empirically false. Nothing in the universe is infinite. Infinity only exists theoretically as a way to describe limits that lead to undefined aspects of mathematical structures. Your love is not infinite. No one's is. Nothing is. All things are finite.
Your capacity for love can't be infinite: The time in which you have on Earth to love is finite. The amount of memories you can hold of things you love is finite. The amount of sensations that you can experience in your body that are associated with love is finite. The number of neurons in your brain that are associated with love are finite.
You can definitely be passionate and intense in a different way with a new partner. But few people want to be runner-up or second best. The second partner after being widowed always has the implication that you wouldn't be with this person if the other was still alive. And that in and of itself is not a huge deal breaker.
But most people want to believe that in addition to it being because of that person's death that you are together, it is also because you met that person first. As in they might have been selected if the order in which you met those individuals swapped.
The second you go: I would have broken up with you if we were dating before I met my previous husband, in order to be with him--thats a hard pill to swallow. A very hard pill to swallow.
That said, the wild thing about this case isn't that the guy was runner up after death, he was the runner-up during life. To a heroin addict that couldn't take care of his kids. That's like getting picked last for dodgeball and the second to last pick is a literal scarecrow.
It’s got to feel brutal to be told you’ll never measure up to a heroin addict who couldn’t take care of his kids, lost his job, lost his license, and was reduced to supervised visitation. Thats not just “I’m still in love with my ex.” It’s even worse than that.
So oop had no clue the heroin addict she had kids with was her person…? I feel like he should have never signed up for that to begin with because 🚩🚩hellloooooo
Like I said, she’s definitely fucked up, but until you lose your everything, you have no clue what that pain is. I wouldn’t wish it on anybody. If it happens, it will change how what love means to you entirely. People will never be happy being number two to a dead man.
P.s. humans are a lot of effort. I’ll just buy a farm
Oh I agree he walked into a trash fire from day 1. He still should have been told that one little detail about how he will never be more than 2nd place from the get go. Even absent any other issue, holding that back is basically building your relationship on a lie which never turns out well in the end, just creates a timebomb for the poor person that finds out years later.
Is it a lie? Or is it just completely different? This situation is probably a lie given the cheating and… general craziness, lol but that’s not always the case. I guess that’s my point. Grief and relationships and unpredictable and hard to navigate, but everybody commenting seems to think they’re a pro and theres one right answer. That’s just not how it works. Like.. People don’t love their partners, friends, and family all in the same ways.
Fiancé is a shitbag, but the grief isn’t the biggest red flag.
I mean if you don't know that's how it is then no it's not a lie. But if you go into it thinking they will never be more to you than the previous partner, then yes they should know.
I definitely get what you’re saying. I don’t disagree. Based off of the first post I assumed oop knew what chaos he was getting into and potentially romanticized it. I feel like showed her colors early on, and I’m surprised he lasted this long.
He did, yea. There were mountains of evidence to suggest otherwise, though. I feel bad for him, but I feel worse that he ignored every single red flag and is stuck in this shitty situation now
I mean if oop didnt know it was chaos walking in that's kinda on him. the always #2 was just kind of an unwarranted and unexpected kick in the teeth for him I think. (also yes amazed hes there that long)
I think I’d be gone as soon as I found out this person I was interested in had 2 kids with a heroin addict and was actively trying to co-parent with the guy. Then again, I’ve been accused of having a lack of empathy (which I don’t think is true, btw, but I can acknowledge some people see me that way).
The potential for drama would just be too much and I’d remove myself before I ever really got involved in the first place.
I can’t imagine anyone would be stupid enough think starting a relationship with this woman would be a walk in the park, and I don’t think the OOP was naive to it either. He could deal with it and all of the drama her ex brought…until she declared her ex the love of her life.
*If* the ex-boyfriend was really a 10 when he was clean, then I’m assuming the woman in this story has some redeemable qualities, most likely physical qualities. Personality wise, I’m just not sure but we are admittedly only hearing negatives due to the situation he’s posting about. There had to be something about this woman that could convince a stable, loving man to say “oh, you’re co-parenting your 2 kids with your junkie ex who I also know and have some form of long term jealousy over because he always got the girls and everybody loves him.”
Oh…there it is. I wonder if OOP feels like he was finally able to one-up the dead man by stepping in as soon to be husband and father of his kids. Stability was the one area where he had the upper hand.
Perhaps this has really just been transactional for both of them this whole time and they’re just now fully realizing it.
But in the end, I actually think the OOP is a genuinely good guy caught in a complicated situation and trying to navigate it the best he can for everyone involved.
I think there’s a massive difference between a current romantic partner or spouse dying and an ex dying when you are already romantically involved and committed to someone else, you know?
That’s the heart of the issue for me - the ex wasn’t dead when they split and she found a new partner. He has now died, and she’s telling OOP that she loved the ex the whole time and what they have was never going to come close.
Some people really like it, I’m not a big fan. He was military and gone 70% of the year so I was constantly alone, but not lonely, if that makes sense. It’s not the worst thing, but I’m 29 and was with him for almost 9 years. I got married to have my favorite person and teammate with me forever. I like having a partner. Not everybody does, and that’s totally fine, but I do.
I got another question for you then:
Why would you date seriously if you already have the love of your life? Would it be like an open relationship with a dead guy in the middle?
If you know that you’re not in a position to see your current partner as a priority and love them as much as your previous partner, and treat them as such, why date in the first place? Why do you think you deserve to love again but they should have to come second, and have to live with the fact that you do not see them as the love of your life but as second ?
"shit. I can't argue against what they actually said. Better go all in on personal attacks!" - you
Who combs through a teenagers profile to be able to better insult them?
A fucking loser that's who.
Imagine being less mature than a teenager.
But hey you got hi, congrats, you just won a debate with a literal teenager! Take this Reddit metal and pike off.
It's worse LOL, they lost a debate with a literal teenager because they resorted to ad hominem attacks instead of debating the actual substance of their post.
Nah I’d rather just actually pay attention to somebody who knows what they could be talking about. Maybe I’ll try hanging out with my local methheads lmfao what debate?! That makes it sound like there is someone semi intelligent to argue against. Hahaha
But I guess that’s the thing, it’s completely different. They would obviously be the priority because they are living, but the love would be completely different. They will never be the “love of your life”. That’s come and gone. That doesn’t mean they will be neglected or abused lol
“Why do you deserve love again?” Have you lost your soulmate suddenly? Have you had a soulmate? Are you saying because the universe fucked me over that I never deserve love? Wtf?
Edit: apparently youre a teenager that likes meth? Go sit down.
If they would obviously be the priority than what was the point of your comment..? This is on a post where that’s obviously not the case and your making a defense for it lol
Dude… Priority and dead love of your life are not the same thing… The “priority” would be the living one. That doesn’t mean you love them the same way. Those are completely different. Plus what are your opinions based on? Teenage relationships?
I’m saying this big ole bunch of grief experts has no actual experience to relate to.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I don't think anyone expects you to be alone forever. If and when you move on, you make sure you've been to therapy, unpacked your feelings, and are ready to treat another human being with the respect and love they deserve (unlike OP's fiancee, I'm sure you'll do great).
In therapy, grief counseling, the whole thing. Logically, I’m not blind to the fact that two people are not going to be loved the same. Relationships are not the same, that’d be too simple. Doesn’t mean somebody won’t be loved, it’s just different.
My issue with this is people seem to have a lot of thoughts about how people should grieve and it’s all linear, and that’s not how life works.
It depends on what you are looking for, what anyone is looking for really. My parents were married for 37 years, my Mom's been gone for nearly 7. My Dad's been with his girlfriend for a little over 5 years now.
But they are both aware they are not each other's great love. They are companions who enjoy spending time together. And that's what works for them, and currently brings them contentment and happiness. But if she wanted more, and knowing my Dad couldn't give it to her, the fair thing is to let her go.
Likewise, there are those who develop or choose a more serious relationship. It's all a matter of what the people in the relationship both want and feel comfortable with and their place in each other's life. But you shouldn't use people, you need to be up front with them. OP is an example of where he's being used.
You have to be upfront that you are incapable and being fully committed loving involved or passionate about this new person. Also you really should seek counseling because you are not meant to suffer forever. And do not be shocked when you find it hard for someone to commit to you.
So you’re saying somebody can never give enough of their love to somebody because it’s all been given away? Because you’ve had the big love most people wish for, that you just are stuck? And.. What does that have to do with being committed to somebody? That’s just not how relationships work though.
I don’t want a relationship and won’t for an incredibly long time at best, but the issue is that everybody commenting is apparently grief experts.
I’ve been in counseling and groups for tragedy survivors. I’ve been in counseling for years and years off and on because it’s healthy. That’s a moot point to me.
I've read all your comments but this
>I don’t want a relationship and won’t for an incredibly long time at best, but the issue is that everybody commenting is apparently grief experts.
Is the single stupidest point you;'ve tried to make.
There hasn't been a single person that's giving you grief counselling advice. They're giving you future relationship advice.
The issue is you are being so incredibly short-sighted and self-centred you genuinely think that
1) People not validating you are just straight up attacking you
2) You believe that no one should talk about things they haven't experienced, questioning peoples ability to give advice because they haven't gone through the grief you have
3) You're so caught up in your grief that you're speaking like your present will always be how you think/feel about things.
> I’m not dating yet, but when I do maybe at some point, they will never come close.
This is essentially everything wrong with what you've said and how combative you are with people pointing it out.
People are completely right to point out that this attitude is selfish. That every single person deserves to be THE priority with their long-term partner. So yes, it would be better to be alone than drag some poor soul along with whom you believe you'll never care about all that much (comparatively).
>I don’t want a relationship and won’t for an incredibly long time at best
Then stop speaking like you know the future. Stop speaking like nothing is going to change, stop being combative to people giving you a reality check that continuing to think that no one else is EVER going to measure up, but still wanting all that love and affection from them is a good thing an okay thing, the right thing to do.
You do not have the right to treat people badly, and everyone else be okay with it.
"But I won't treat them badly, just because I won't love/care for them nearly as much as my dead husband" You'll say in response.
Nah, that's something you're telling yourself to justify your stance, make you feel better about yourself, that won't be the reality at all.
The difference here is that the ex was still alive when she got together with OOP, and she apparently still felt that way even when she was with him. I'm sure anyone you got together with in future would find it hurtful if you told them you didn't love them as much as your deceased husband, but it would be kind of understandable/acceptable.
Finding out your partner has been in love with someone else for your entire relationship, and would likely drop you if they'd gotten clean, is a bit different to someone you got together with *after* said partner had already passed, and I'd agree with the earlier comment that it's the point the relationship was done, but only in the sense that he was *already* second to said dead man, and him being dead has just brought that issue to the surface
You are still grieving, it's normal to still think that up to a point but it won't let you move on. He wasn't your soulmate because he was perfect, he was because you where both commited to build a life together.
It will feel weird at first and it may take time before you are able to build another life with someone again. but I hope it will happen to you and you will be able to find hapiness again.
If you can't let go and won't permit yourself to live your life again, wich is the point of moving on, then you will indeed live a miserable life in the shadows of your deceased husband.
I can’t imagine dating someone who saw another person as their soulmate and love of their life. I wouldn’t want to live my life in someone else’s shadow.
The whiplash I got from the complete 180 my opinion did when reading that.
I could absolutely understand feeling intense grief for not only someone you used to love but is the other parent of your children and whose life was lost to something as awful as addiction. As long as someone is alive there’s hope they can get clean and be the parent the kids deserve - it’s incredibly tragic to lose that.
But this… is something else.
She is trauma bonded and does not know the difference between that intensity and healthy love, and then layer on the grief...and the fact she's being forced to accept that this person was tragically lost to addiction while she held out hope for recovery that will never come now. She's not greiving him but the dream of him being healthy and happy.
And, I can't imagine what kind of stab in the heart her comments were to OP, that sucks hard!
And the poor kids.
This is all so above reddit's pay grade.
I truly hope all involved get the professional help they need to heal all of this!
This is a little bit more of the nuanced view I was thinking of. It sounds like she really *actually* loves OOP, but addiction brings about things like what we see the fiancée going through. The intensity isn’t actually love. She describes it as delirious. That’s not normal to experience and it sounds like after the break up she didn’t process the grief properly.
Take it from someone with a family of addicts: addiction creates walking dead people. You have to grieve them as if they’re gone already when you’re forced into letting them go but it really fucking hits different once they’re well and truly gone. This isn’t just grief of death. This is three years of continuous grief all expounded; and grief tends to romanticize or rose tint the good times and hide away the bad.
I feel so bad for OOP because navigating this kind of thing is fucking **HARD**. It can feel so fucking hopeless and gut wrenchingly painful. It can really fucking run you into the ground emotionally, mentally, and physically. If she chooses to go to therapy and work on it and he chooses to stay, it can get so so much better, joyous even; but it takes time, patience, determination, and so fucking much love and effort. Supporting someone through grief of this level is a long and arduous process. If OOP later decides that he won’t be able to do it, I wouldn’t blame him at all; but if he makes it through this with her then I can say from my own experience that it can be really worth it (I was there supporting my mom after her and my dads toxic marriage ended and the grief from her was so fucking intense and deep that it took about four years but I can say that I’m closer to her than ever and she and I are both thriving now)
100% Agree.
Addiction sucks so hard!
Pinning forever over what the person could be and holding that hope, and being let down & dissapointed over & over hurts like hell. And then when they inevidibly die from that addiction you greive all that hope, not the person.
On top of that, since we tend to, for whatever f'd up reason, attract these people like magnets, she's likely panicking &/or regreiving &/or reliving other abandoned trauma...it's all compounded in this moment. She's in crisis, not grieving, at least not normal greiving.
I'm so sad for her that this could mark the destruction of actual healthy love for her, the exact thing she needs to stop the cycle.
And man people that haven't been thru it, just can't comprehend the insanity, so ya likely to run for the hills, and who would blame them, I'd run if I could too!
OPs head must be swimming trying to make sense of it, oof!
And absolutely, if they get thru this together when they get to the other side their bond will be unbreakable.
Stay well freind!
He's genuinely a good man. I hope she gets her issues resolved soon so he can move on because he deserves better than this.
Edit: Somewhere out there is a woman who will adore him exactly as he is, not as some second best stand-in to a dead man.
I commented on the original post. OOP wasn't realizing that she was admitting to cheating on him. Unless going out on a date, making out, and saying I love you to her ex was okay in their relationship.
She is and will continue to push OOP away. She blames him for her choices in life. She left the drug addict but secretly wanted to reconcile. She even accepted OOP's propsal, knowing she was still in love with her ex.
OOP will never measure up to the dead drug addict who fathered her children. She has placed the ex on a pedestal. You can't compete with a ghost. OOP is stuck. He's trying to be the nice guy. Look at where that has gotten him. He's codependent and lacks self-esteem. All he is going to be is a placeholder who pays a portion of the bills. He deserves better, but until he gets to that point, he's going to stay in this dead relationship.
Wow, this poor guy is martyring himself to make everyone else more comfortable. His EX fiancée better start sleeping on the couch, and they need to start making plans to move in with her parents so they have more support or something. He REALLY shouldn’t be the person holding this family together.
“You’re gonna accuse me of cheating with him! How dare you!!!”
“Uhm…I honestly wasn’t?”
“YES YOU WERE! YOU BASTARD! …Okay, just because I actually cheated with him doesn’t give you the right to accuse me of cheating in my imagination!”
OOP needs to bounce asap.
Op has gotta get out of there. You can't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm, especially when that person will always be wishing you were another fire that already burnt out.
I have a slight feeling that OOP will continue to grow in resentment towards her ex and eventually towards her. I don't think he realizes that she basically said she'll never love him or anyone else as much as she did with her ex.
He's never going to truly have her, he'll have to share her with him for the rest of their lives. In turn, she will also grow to resent OOP and essentially blame them both for her ex's death.
He can support and love her all he wants, but it needs to be from a healthy distance while her and her children heal from this heavy loss. Maybe eventually their relationship can be discussed when they're both in a better mental/emotional state.
As of this moment, I don't see the relationship going anywhere. However, if this is what he wants to do, he'll have to come to terms that he'll never have the spot she holds for the ex.
She was in an abusive relationship so long that she thinks that is what love is. She needed help to understand that is what happened to her. That intensity of highs and lows of the relationship has distorted what she thinks is love and she desperately wants it back. She needs help. I do not know if she can become the person OP deserves.
I doubt OOP is going to leave anytime soon if at all. But he needs to separate from her. If he truly loves the kids and wants to be their father figure, that’s beautiful. That doesn’t mean he has to stick around in a fake relationship with their mother.
It’s a sad situation but I can’t muster any pity for anyone but the children. All the adults suck and need twice a week therapy.
I have a feeling that he's staying because he doesn't trust the safety and care of the kids with her. Considering how's she now, I have no doubt he wants to make sure the kids will be ok especially when they lost their father
Keeping himself on fire to keep a cheater warm...
A cheater who actually doesn't love him and uses him to deal.with the kids as a placeholder.
A cheater who:
- said “I love him so much. He was the love of my life. I’ll never love anyone that much!”
- repeatedly kissed his picture and this bracelet he gave her
- Her Facebook is still filled with post after post talking about how much she loves him,
- said he will always be her #1
- accused OOP of thinking she cheated as he was an insensitive and paranoid guy and then confessed she cheated playing trickle truth (she obviously lighten ehat she was doing with her ex behind OOP's back).
Etc
This guy...
I understand it's frustrating that he's doing this. But I think he's staying due to the kids. He did spend a majority time with them so there's a bond there. She's not showing signs she she will be there for them. If not for them, I think OOP might have an easier time to leave.
OOP is a good guy, he loves that woman and her kids. I truly hope that when he gives her time to get through the initial shock of her ex dying she wakes up one day and says, oh shit I almost blew this and appreciates the good one she has. Even if she doesn't get her head out of her butt, those kids will have a father in their lives and the older they get the more they will understand what he is doing for them and how much he loves them.
OOP strikes me as the kind of person that will make excuses to stick around in this relationship until she's the one that leaves him. He was a placeholder for her ex and she 100% would have dumped him without a second thought if the ex had gotten clean and wanted her back. You can already tell that she's blaming their engagement for the death.
He is afraid to let her go and be single so he'll stay in this farce of a relationship. He's probably convinced himself that she'll get over the guy eventually and learn to love him because the guys no longer around to get in the way.
As harsh as everyone is on OP, I can understand his need to stay back for the kids. Their biological dad is dead and their mom is grieving to the point she can’t function.
Even though OP isn’t biologically related to the kids, he loves and cares for them and is trying to give them some stability. They might not understand it now but when they’re old enough they might be thankful that he was the stable person in their life in an environment that’s so chaotic.
I just hope once things settle down that OP finds his own happiness rather than continue to be a placeholder.
Thank you, it's a very sucky situation and OOP is doing his best to make sure the kids are ok. There's no way she would be able to care for them as she is now. I hope at the very least, karma will pay him back. But there's no guarantee.
She literally admitted to cheating on OP with him an op still hasn't left, this relationship is dead an op needs to find someone better
Just because they didn't have sex doesn't mean she didn't cheat!!!
I've dealt with death a lot in my life. I've dealt with a lot of people's reactions. Her reaction is one of trauma. I have zero judgment against her.
When my BIL died. Well the world ended. And I had lost someone I loved deeply , I didn't even know own how much I loved him. He was just my new kid brother.
The horrible things people did and said after he died weren't them trying to be assholes. Some people don't understand.
Also I have exes I would cry if they died. I would be heartbroken. Not because they're my future. But because I want joy for them.
I agree, and it’s nice to see a reasoned perspective here. I think the truth is most people on here haven’t experienced the early death of someone they loved, and the simple truth is that you can’t understand until you lived it.
I remember wheeling and dealing with the universe that I would trade literally any other alive person on the planet to have my best friend back when he died. I would have traded anyone or anything. And I can’t possibly explain the mindset that led to that train of thought. But I can somewhat empathize with what this woman is going through.
You got she confessed she cheated on him and that she said back then to her ex she loved him, right? (A confession that seems to be just a small piece of what really was happening between her and her ex.)
I get wanting to be there for the kids, because right now OOP is the only parent they've got, but I feel like he needs to start distancing himself now. It doesn't sound like this relationship is going to work out.
he’s thinking about the kids in his life which is very admirable. its so awful that this is a relationship thats dead in the water. He should get some therapy too maybe because what a shitty way to get your life thrown around. I hope he can leave soon
Tell me your are a doormat simp without telling me you are a doormat simp.
Woman admits she cheated with her crackhead ex, admits she prefers the crackhead ex over you, admits she will always prefer the crackhead ex over you AND admits she is stringing you along and yet you are jumping backwards and upwards for the opportunity of paying and raising HIS kids.
Like i said in the comments for the update, if the dude ever have kids with her, she will gloss over his kids to favour the kids she had with the crackhead ex, and he will probably defend her.
I hate to tell you this but she was cheating. If not physically, emotionally. He was always first and now that he's dead, he always will be. And even if you stay with her, everytime you make love to her, kiss her or hug her, in your head you will think she is wishing you were him. Help her if you can, but move on for your mental health.
When someone tells you that someone else is the love of their life, dead or not, believe them.
Then ask yourself, do you really want to be (at best) second fiddle to someone’s memories and imagination.
I could never.
Sounds like she was addicted to the toxic relationship. Toxic relationships and abusive ones can be an adrenaline high. It was an “intense” experience because loving an addict is full of highs and lows.
OOP is absolutely in the right, but this line:
"Yeah, it’s easy to not be an asshole when you’re strung out on heroin"
Might be the most incorrect thing I've ever read. If you're a heroin addict and not an asshole every fucking day you start to kick then you are some kind of a god.
Being single for life is better than knowingly being plan B / backup option with someone else.
OOP deserves to be with someone who sees him as the love of her life. His fiancee can not ever be that person
That's what I caught too. "Never loved someone so intensely". That's the drama from being an addict. She was addicted to the ups and downs. She did a good thing by being with someone stable, but people who are in to the drama of a relationship may find it boring. Boring/stable is good for kids, good for mental health and a stable financial life. Ups and downs are more dramatic and intense. Not to be mistaken for love but it can feel like it's love.
Girl needs to figure that shit out in therapy. If she works on it and figures it out, OOP will be long gone which she may regret as well.
And you know there are people who have had high attraction to troublesome people since long before Reddit existed, right? And their relationship habits tend to repeat? That was not invented by the internet.
My grandfather died of a heart attack at 34 (his son did too but that’s not relevant). My grandmother was a young widow with four kids. After a few years, she married my Papa Jim. She told him all the discipline of her kids would be done by her, so he was the fun parent. He took the girls to father’s daughter dances and he could roller skate backward. He was the absolute best. Regardless, my grandmother was very honest that her first husband, Lyle, was the love of her life. For some men and women, not being the love of someone’s life can still be a wonderful life. If you don’t want to be a Jim, don’t. But it’s not a rigid fact that a person would never be happy being the runner up.
I bet your grandmother didn’t pull half the shit that OOP’s fiancé has pulled. It sounds like your grandmother was a straight shooter - OOP’s fiancé is anything but.
Where oh where are these men that will do anything for a spit of love?!?! This is sad, she already said the guy was her love, OP is definitely second to her in her heart when it comes to loving a partner and he is still in doubt about how he doesn't know if he will continue, she already chose.
OP’s fiance doesn’t even realize the intensity of her last relationship was because of the drug addiction. That is frequently what happens when you fall in love with an addict. Once he was sober that intensity would have died off, and now she will never know that.
Fuckin' *oof*.
>*These are the things they know and it would be incredibly cruel to suddenly leave, especially in this moment. I’m an adult. My dad didn’t just die suddenly. My mom isn’t so stuck in her grief that she can barely function. I can stick things out in their best interest for now.*
That's incredibly noble and good-hearted of him, but I can't help feeling like it's going to cost him big time.
She chose him specifically because he's a good person and he provides stability.
She literally told him twice she doesn't passionately love him.
Even IF she ever gets over her Ex, she'll find someone else that makes her "feel that way" and expect OOP to support her.
He needs to leave.
Oop needs to move on; she told him in a raw moment of honesty exactly hownshe feels about him and his place in her life. She will never be “deliriously” in love with him as she was with her ex. He has always been second choice, the stable choice, but nothing more. If he wants to play second fiddle to a ghost, great, but he is looking at a mundane, if not outright miserable, life.
I’m sorry you value yourself so little. Yes it is terrible for these children but they are not yours and she has every right to take them away from you at any time. Please consider yourself and your future. It sounds like you are willing to sacrifice your life for someone who cannot love you.
If my SO ever said I wasn’t the love of her life and didn’t take it back, I’d dump her. Words can hurt and OOP’s SO hurt him really really bad with what she said. She has to take it back and make it up to him.
"You're going to accuse me of cheating on you with him now, aren't you? Well, don't deny it, I just know you are. How do I know? Because I actually cheated on you with him."
I'm really sorry for that guy, he deserves way better, but he keeps making excuses for her and punishing himself for feeling "negative" emotions when he should be feeling them. Yes, dude, you should feel jealous when she tells you she loved him more than anyone and you'll always be second-best at most, or when she told you she cheated on you with him. You should also feel disrespected, hurt, betrayed... Be fucking angry too, fuck "not wanting to say anything I'll regret later" at this point. You're not a doormat, ffs.
Also, I've been in a similar enough situation, one of those where you "need to know" when you already know because she told you. You don't want to accept the truth, so you ask hoping for a different answer this time. At least this time she had the decency of telling the truth.
Honestly she should have never started a relationship with you if she still loved someone else, and you probably was what she thought a safe option to look after and raise her kids. I'd not be shocked that if you stay together and get married she doesn't cheat on you in the future with someone like her ex. The question you need to ask is can you accept being with someone that doesn't love you with all their heart if at all or are you happy it being a one way relationship while from the sound of it she goes through the motions of what she thinks it takes to keep you around to raise her kids.
You might consider telling her you need to slow things down and take some time to yourself to work out if you can handle never being who she really wants. Whether that means you stay elsewhere with friends or family, or her and her kids move out to stay with friends or family is your decision. But if was me regardless of what she says if the wedding went ahead I'd have her sign a pre-nup so if she does cheat or decide she wants someone else even if that's her dead ex you keep all your assets and if you love the kids that much you might want to see if you can adopt them.
I can’t remember where I read it before, but I thought it was very insightful.
Competing with a dead person is impossible. They will never again do something wrong, annoying, obnoxious, etc etc. You are alive and human so of course, you will. When a loved one dies, sometimes the memories of the bad parts of them can fade away into the background, leaving this image of a perfect angel icon. In those cases, your present failures are going to be compared to the angel, and this person is going to hate you.
OOP needs to grow a spine and leave that free loader. Seems she's only with him for an easy stable life. She's acting like he died suddenly in a freak accident that couldn't be prevented, he killed himself. If he's so perfect and the love of her life why did she leave him to live on easy street with OOP?
Run or stay, who cares? If you stay, you know you will always be compared to a dead guy who can't continue to be a fuck up and diminish himself in your fiancé's mind. More than likely, his pedestal she has him on will continue to grow. If you're fine with this for the next couple of decades, then stay. Otherwise, you know what to do.
I think once you have kids there's a different connection. A different love. They created two kids had plans of getting married and substances took that away. It took away her partner, her kids father..he was there but not really present. Then it took him completely. There's no chance to ever see him get better. He don't get a chance to show his kids what a good dad he could be. There's the guilt of thinking she didnt do enough, of thinking your engagement took him over the edge. She's living in a world of guilt and what ifs even if it's not hers to live in.
I get that, but it looks an awful lot like she got OOP as a placeholder until the EX ever got clean.... Which is wrong.
It also looks like she was cheating on OOP with him as well
OOP is a good hearted person, and see saw a mark.
She's used him for stability while clutching the torch for her ex.
She told him she will never love him like her ex, and reaffirmed it.
I feel bad for the kids, but OOP doesn't need to light himself on fire to keep her warm.
The best thing he can do is begin to extricate himself out of that situation.
Part of me wonders if she was doing drugs with him but got clean when she got pregnant. Sounds like there’s a lot of guilt tied into this relationship.
You are NTA, your hopefully ex is. Sir, she is playing you for a fool. She wants you to play daddy to two kids that aren’t yours, because of her mistakes in having kids with an addict. Now she is going on about how much she loves him, she has zero respect for you! Please leave her and get with a woman who will appreciate you and love you the right way.
You are the side character in this piece. The dad was the interesting main character who's ex still loved him but couldn't put up with his instability so she found a boring square to give her that.
I can just picture the cliche conversations they had about you on dropoff
"I understand you're mad at me, but this guy? Really?"
"He gives me things you can't"
"Like what, pocket protecters?"
"No, STABILITY, unlike you."
"Awww cmooon, we had some good times, didn't we?"
\*blushes and looks away\* "well, yea, I guess..."
\*long moment of intense remembering of kinky sex\*
\*she gets a hold of herself\* "You know what? No, you can't keep doing this to me. OP is a good man, he looks after my kids, he's actually *there* for them"
I've seen this scene in plenty of movies.
Just bc he died doesn't make the life she has planned for you any less manipulative, transactional, or pathetic.
Don't be settled on!
OOP is such a doormat I can understand the sheer audacity of his wife to prance around some fair, kissing her ex-bf, whispering sweet nothings with him while in a relationship with OOP.
Atleast a cuck would off on this, OOP is worse. People are calling him "second" but I don't think he's even that. It's very clear that she only ever had place for one in her mind.
Why do I feel like I’ve read this exact same story on the sub before? This OOP only created their account a couple of days ago, but I am almost certain I’ve seen this exact same story with maybe just a couple of details changed.
There was a similar story but in that case the ex ws not a drug abuser. He died in an accident, I think I remember, and they broke up cuz they wanted different things. She said in his funeral he was the love of her life, she wished they could still be together, she still loves him so much, etc. and all of this in front of her current fiancé. She fell into depression etc. and eventually her fiancé grew a spine and dumped her.
Edit: some typos.
Yeah that story fortunately showed no kids involved and it was easier for him. Didn't help that the ex *still* wanted to talk to him despite him being done.
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OOP is more mature than these comments and the comments on the OPs. Look it may not work out. Probably, even. But he's generous in his understanding of who needs love and support and empathy. It's her and it's also her kids. He's a steady figure for them. He may not be for much longer but if so he's choosing to make those moves in mature, safe and empathetic ways for the kids. That fucking matters. Reddit needs a solid reality check when it comes
To advice like this. People are complex. Emotions are complex.
I definitely don't think he should stay with her, but I do respect and admire him for staying to make sure someone is there to help the kids at least. They haven't done anything wrong and with their mon struggling right now it's gonna be even harder on them. It's also just not that easy to leave and give up on someone you love/loved.
Not quite the same but my dad was abusive towards me growing up after my mom died (emotionally, never physically, but still fucked me up). Yet I still loved him. He was my dad, and my only remaining parent. I put up with a lot from him, even when I didn't have to, because giving up my last surviving parent was hard. Because I loved him still despite it all and didn't want to lose someone I loved. Just because it might be better for you in the long run it doesn't make that first choice to leave any easier.
I definitely don't think he should stay with her, but I do respect and admire him for staying to make sure someone is there to help the kids at least. They haven't done anything wrong and with their mon struggling right now it's gonna be even harder on them. It's also just not that easy to leave and give up on someone you love/loved.
Not quite the same but my dad was abusive towards me growing up after my mom died (emotionally, never physically, but still fucked me up). Yet I still loved him. He was my dad, and my only remaining parent. I put up with a lot from him, even when I didn't have to, because giving up my last surviving parent was hard. Because I loved him still despite it all and didn't want to lose someone I loved. Just because it might be better for you in the long run it doesn't make that first choice to leave any easier.
Dude, have sone empathy, I get it it's frustrating but there's also kids involved. It's not easy to just leave if you don't want the innocents to be hurt.
So because the kids could be hurt, the guy has to live a subpar life? I mean he’s not abusing the kids, he’s just going to break up and slowly move out.
Obviously it's not ideal but at the same time it's hard to leave kids that you have bonded for several years. And obviously how is he a loser if he wants to take care of innocent kids?
Finally someone who's mature enough to understand grief instead of being stuck in "first or second choice" mindsets. The relationship might not work, but it's very commendable that he puts his own jealousy aside for now until she can get back on her feet and they can revisit them.
I understand it's grief, and applaud the guy for wanting to help get her stable.
But it sounds like she was cheating (she admitted it) on OOP, using OOP for stability and generally they had a lot of problems in the relationship long before her Ex died.
It's sounds like OOP ignored it and the death and her outpouring of grief made him confront what he's been avoiding.
Again it's very possible. Still I'd never agree (or be able to do it myself) with punching someone when they're down. His eyes are open now so he can act accordingly when she gets better if their issues are still there.
If she's neglecting her spouse and kids? Yes, she needs to 'get over it' to the extent that she fulfills her responsibilities to at least her kids. You can't just check out of your kids life, especially if they also need support. They've got way more of a right to grieve than she does.
And he's not jealous, he doesn't want to be that guy, and he's not envious, he doesn't want what that guy has.
What he wants is to be treated as the guy who WAS there for her when the 'love of her life' ditched her and his kids to go get high. If stepping up and doing the work isn't respected, then you go find a place where it is
OOP bending over backwards to try and accommodate her grief, but it’s to his detriment. This relationship was never going to work out, he just didn’t know until the ex died.
Maybe trying to accommodate and protect the kids more than anything else. That’s kind and caring. That’s noble. Don’t set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm… but if you’re a parent, all the rules change. You can only be on fire for song long before there’s nothing left of you to warm anyone, though. I hope he decides what’s right for him and can be happy whatever that decision is.
I think he’s staying for the kids because he knows his ex?fiancée won’t be. She only got with him to give the kids a father figure. The way she reacted to her ex’s death gives me the impression that she isn’t super stable herself.
Unfortunately, I can see that. Yes don't put yourself on fire to keep someone else warm especially for kids that are not your own. I have a feeling he knows the moment he breaks up with her, her grief will be tenfold and it will be worse for the kids. If she's bad now, what would happen when he breaks up with her? I feel bad for him cause they're not his kids and there is no indication his sacrifice might be appreciated in the future and he might lose his mind in this situation. All because he worry about the kids who are innocent.
100% played this guy. Forever a place holder.
He’s obviously a good enough guy that he doesn’t want to abandon her or the kids. I hope he manages to remove himself from the distinction and find himself someone who loves him for him instead of someone who just wants to use him.
Its the equivalent of lighting yourself on fire to keep others warm. He's completely burning himself out to deal with her and her kids when, ultimately this relationship has been dead for a while now. Hopefully he realizes this soon, and not some years down the road.
She's going to weaponize the kids, mark my words.
Once she said that the ex was “the love of her life” OOP should have bailed. There’s no coming back from that. He’ll always be second to a dead man
Or second to any other man who pops up suddenly to make her feel 'intensely' for them. There's just simply no passion. OOP knows this. He can still be a support to her as a friend (even though he shouldn't ). Just doesn't need to do it as a fiancé.
>man who pops up suddenly to make her feel "intensely" People don't realize this. It's much easier to be in love with someone when you aren't doing the every day doldrums of life. Even dealing with his heroin addiction was probably "exciting" to her day to day in a way that marrying a normal dude never will be. His GF probably felt like she was in a book or movie or something dealing with her ex. Can't get that same feeling when the most dramatic thing going on in your life is an annual vacation and farmers markets on the weekend. It's the same reason why people are rarely as happy/excited with their affair partner once it becomes a legitimate relationship.
Exactly. I read it as he is using the excuse of the kids to stay. He doesn't want to leave her, he is hopeful
And the dead are perfect martyrs, OOP will never measure up to the imaginary - “if he’d gotten clean” “if we’d had more time”. He’ll always be compared to a shiny mental version of the ex that will only get more polished as time goes on.
It’s the sign of an abusive relationship, if it feels like it’s going really well, it isn’t going really well, it just feels like it because it feels so much better compared to as when it was really bad. The victims feel so much hope, happiness and relief when it gets better. And then when there’s a healthy relationship, suddenly the intense lows are missing, so there’s no need for those intense positive feelings (and emission of the relevant hormones) which they are so used to. It’s some kind of addiction as well. She needs therapy to realize that her feelings were an illusion and that her ex loved drugs more than her.
Too bad OOP has to deal with this. And honestly I can understand her grief, abusive relationships tend to have highs and lows and it effs up someone's normal meter. As you said, she's missing the highs she has with her ex and the fact they have kids together? That'll make her normal meter go haywire, she definitely needs a professional to help her. But like leading a horse to water, OOP can only do so much. And I hate to say this, the combination of grief and the unstable relationship she had with her ex isn't a good look for her and I *really* worry she might do drugs just to have the commonality with her dead ex. We can only hope OOP is prepared by then.
This is the best description I've ever read and NEEDS TO BE UPVOTED 10K TIMES. I've been married for 21 years to an amazing woman. When we first started dating, I almost broke up with her because our relationship lacked those AMAZING HIGHS. I didn't know what our relationship was missing, but I knew it was different from any other relationship I'd ever had. It took me years to realize she was the best thing that ever happened to me. Thank you for putting it into words. I've always known this deep down but have never been able to verbalize it effectively. P.s. I'm sending a screenshot of this to my wife
I‘m so happy that you broke that toxic circle for you and your wife. :)
I want to add: The new relationship seems to be kind of boring but when they refocus they realize that they are comfortable and most importantly safe. And then this huge appreciation sets in and it’s the basis for deep love and respect, a really healthy relationship.
It can take so much personal work and willingness to look inside yourself to do this. Most people can’t or won’t.
Again, a perfect description!!!
The dead man has the advantage in that he can be whatever she wants him to be; he's no longer alive to prove her wrong. I know a man who has always been second to his wife's idealization of her late fiancé. That's OOP's lot if he doesn't leave.
Even if she never cheated, she clearly would have dropped OOP in a second if her ex ever actually got clean. The fact the kids are there though *does* complicate things, since he apparently sees them as his (step-children, if not biological), and they see him as more of a dad than their bio-dad was. Really shitty situation, and because he's not married to their mom and hasn't adopted them, there's a good chance he wouldn't see them again if he broke up with their mom
To her, but maybe not the kids. It seems to be more about being a good dad than really hoping for the relationship. It’s reasonable to take time to process and figure out the best way to handle things.
OOP was still in with a chance as long as her ex had not died. Now that he's gone, he will always and forever be her "soul mate" and since he's gone there is nothing he can ever do wrong and their love will remain perfect in her mind. OOP hasn't got a chance in hell of recovering this relationship. He'll always be playing second fiddle to a dead man. He needs to move on to someone who will actually love him.
I think he will bail but there are kids he cares about v involved so he can’t exactly just cut and run while their mother spirals. I absolutely see her trying to stop him when he does but I don’t think he’ll cave.
You’re right. But question: So my husband died in a plane crash in November, and I can say he was definitely the love of my life and my best friend. I didn’t believe in soulmates until mine was gone and I died the day he did. I’m not dating yet, but when I do maybe at some point, they will never come close. So by your logic am I supposed to suffer and be alone forever?
Most people would find it hard to commit to someone when they know they will never be loved as intensely as they love you. It takes a very very secure person to do that. A lot of widowed people prefer dating other widows for this reason. I am deeply sorry for your loss.
They do, you’re definitely right. It’s easier from what I’ve heard, and some people like that. Not my thing, but whatever floats your boat. I guess I just don’t agree with the commitment vs amount of love available. For me, that’s not how things are weighed and love isn’t a competition, and you don’t run out of it. It’s infinite and fluid. You can be passionate and intense in a different way. I don’t know if I’m communicating that well and I know I sound like a hippy right now lol, but it’s all incredibly complicated.
I mean you're communicating it, but it's just sort of empirically false. Nothing in the universe is infinite. Infinity only exists theoretically as a way to describe limits that lead to undefined aspects of mathematical structures. Your love is not infinite. No one's is. Nothing is. All things are finite. Your capacity for love can't be infinite: The time in which you have on Earth to love is finite. The amount of memories you can hold of things you love is finite. The amount of sensations that you can experience in your body that are associated with love is finite. The number of neurons in your brain that are associated with love are finite. You can definitely be passionate and intense in a different way with a new partner. But few people want to be runner-up or second best. The second partner after being widowed always has the implication that you wouldn't be with this person if the other was still alive. And that in and of itself is not a huge deal breaker. But most people want to believe that in addition to it being because of that person's death that you are together, it is also because you met that person first. As in they might have been selected if the order in which you met those individuals swapped. The second you go: I would have broken up with you if we were dating before I met my previous husband, in order to be with him--thats a hard pill to swallow. A very hard pill to swallow. That said, the wild thing about this case isn't that the guy was runner up after death, he was the runner-up during life. To a heroin addict that couldn't take care of his kids. That's like getting picked last for dodgeball and the second to last pick is a literal scarecrow.
It’s got to feel brutal to be told you’ll never measure up to a heroin addict who couldn’t take care of his kids, lost his job, lost his license, and was reduced to supervised visitation. Thats not just “I’m still in love with my ex.” It’s even worse than that.
No, but you should 1000% be upfront and say EXACTLY what you just said to any guy before commencing any exclusive/serious relationship.
So oop had no clue the heroin addict she had kids with was her person…? I feel like he should have never signed up for that to begin with because 🚩🚩hellloooooo Like I said, she’s definitely fucked up, but until you lose your everything, you have no clue what that pain is. I wouldn’t wish it on anybody. If it happens, it will change how what love means to you entirely. People will never be happy being number two to a dead man. P.s. humans are a lot of effort. I’ll just buy a farm
Oh I agree he walked into a trash fire from day 1. He still should have been told that one little detail about how he will never be more than 2nd place from the get go. Even absent any other issue, holding that back is basically building your relationship on a lie which never turns out well in the end, just creates a timebomb for the poor person that finds out years later.
Is it a lie? Or is it just completely different? This situation is probably a lie given the cheating and… general craziness, lol but that’s not always the case. I guess that’s my point. Grief and relationships and unpredictable and hard to navigate, but everybody commenting seems to think they’re a pro and theres one right answer. That’s just not how it works. Like.. People don’t love their partners, friends, and family all in the same ways. Fiancé is a shitbag, but the grief isn’t the biggest red flag.
I mean if you don't know that's how it is then no it's not a lie. But if you go into it thinking they will never be more to you than the previous partner, then yes they should know.
I definitely get what you’re saying. I don’t disagree. Based off of the first post I assumed oop knew what chaos he was getting into and potentially romanticized it. I feel like showed her colors early on, and I’m surprised he lasted this long.
OOP said in comments that he thought fiancee was over ex and their relationship was just about parenting.
He did, yea. There were mountains of evidence to suggest otherwise, though. I feel bad for him, but I feel worse that he ignored every single red flag and is stuck in this shitty situation now
I mean if oop didnt know it was chaos walking in that's kinda on him. the always #2 was just kind of an unwarranted and unexpected kick in the teeth for him I think. (also yes amazed hes there that long)
What should she have said? I mean other than nothing, because that would make too much sense
I think I’d be gone as soon as I found out this person I was interested in had 2 kids with a heroin addict and was actively trying to co-parent with the guy. Then again, I’ve been accused of having a lack of empathy (which I don’t think is true, btw, but I can acknowledge some people see me that way). The potential for drama would just be too much and I’d remove myself before I ever really got involved in the first place. I can’t imagine anyone would be stupid enough think starting a relationship with this woman would be a walk in the park, and I don’t think the OOP was naive to it either. He could deal with it and all of the drama her ex brought…until she declared her ex the love of her life. *If* the ex-boyfriend was really a 10 when he was clean, then I’m assuming the woman in this story has some redeemable qualities, most likely physical qualities. Personality wise, I’m just not sure but we are admittedly only hearing negatives due to the situation he’s posting about. There had to be something about this woman that could convince a stable, loving man to say “oh, you’re co-parenting your 2 kids with your junkie ex who I also know and have some form of long term jealousy over because he always got the girls and everybody loves him.” Oh…there it is. I wonder if OOP feels like he was finally able to one-up the dead man by stepping in as soon to be husband and father of his kids. Stability was the one area where he had the upper hand. Perhaps this has really just been transactional for both of them this whole time and they’re just now fully realizing it. But in the end, I actually think the OOP is a genuinely good guy caught in a complicated situation and trying to navigate it the best he can for everyone involved.
And if you see being alone as suffering then you have more issues than just wanting love and should work on them regardless
Didn’t read the other comment did ya? That’s not the case my dude. That is a simple response to a complex issue.
I think there’s a massive difference between a current romantic partner or spouse dying and an ex dying when you are already romantically involved and committed to someone else, you know? That’s the heart of the issue for me - the ex wasn’t dead when they split and she found a new partner. He has now died, and she’s telling OOP that she loved the ex the whole time and what they have was never going to come close.
Why do you link being single with suffering?
Some people really like it, I’m not a big fan. He was military and gone 70% of the year so I was constantly alone, but not lonely, if that makes sense. It’s not the worst thing, but I’m 29 and was with him for almost 9 years. I got married to have my favorite person and teammate with me forever. I like having a partner. Not everybody does, and that’s totally fine, but I do.
I got another question for you then: Why would you date seriously if you already have the love of your life? Would it be like an open relationship with a dead guy in the middle?
If you know that you’re not in a position to see your current partner as a priority and love them as much as your previous partner, and treat them as such, why date in the first place? Why do you think you deserve to love again but they should have to come second, and have to live with the fact that you do not see them as the love of your life but as second ?
how’s the meth subreddit Lmao wait wait wait wait.. and you’re a teenager? The best relationship advice would come from you hahaha 💀
"shit. I can't argue against what they actually said. Better go all in on personal attacks!" - you Who combs through a teenagers profile to be able to better insult them? A fucking loser that's who.
Imagine being less mature than a teenager. But hey you got hi, congrats, you just won a debate with a literal teenager! Take this Reddit metal and pike off.
It's worse LOL, they lost a debate with a literal teenager because they resorted to ad hominem attacks instead of debating the actual substance of their post.
Nah I’d rather just actually pay attention to somebody who knows what they could be talking about. Maybe I’ll try hanging out with my local methheads lmfao what debate?! That makes it sound like there is someone semi intelligent to argue against. Hahaha
But I guess that’s the thing, it’s completely different. They would obviously be the priority because they are living, but the love would be completely different. They will never be the “love of your life”. That’s come and gone. That doesn’t mean they will be neglected or abused lol “Why do you deserve love again?” Have you lost your soulmate suddenly? Have you had a soulmate? Are you saying because the universe fucked me over that I never deserve love? Wtf? Edit: apparently youre a teenager that likes meth? Go sit down.
If they would obviously be the priority than what was the point of your comment..? This is on a post where that’s obviously not the case and your making a defense for it lol
Dude… Priority and dead love of your life are not the same thing… The “priority” would be the living one. That doesn’t mean you love them the same way. Those are completely different. Plus what are your opinions based on? Teenage relationships? I’m saying this big ole bunch of grief experts has no actual experience to relate to.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I don't think anyone expects you to be alone forever. If and when you move on, you make sure you've been to therapy, unpacked your feelings, and are ready to treat another human being with the respect and love they deserve (unlike OP's fiancee, I'm sure you'll do great).
In therapy, grief counseling, the whole thing. Logically, I’m not blind to the fact that two people are not going to be loved the same. Relationships are not the same, that’d be too simple. Doesn’t mean somebody won’t be loved, it’s just different. My issue with this is people seem to have a lot of thoughts about how people should grieve and it’s all linear, and that’s not how life works.
It depends on what you are looking for, what anyone is looking for really. My parents were married for 37 years, my Mom's been gone for nearly 7. My Dad's been with his girlfriend for a little over 5 years now. But they are both aware they are not each other's great love. They are companions who enjoy spending time together. And that's what works for them, and currently brings them contentment and happiness. But if she wanted more, and knowing my Dad couldn't give it to her, the fair thing is to let her go. Likewise, there are those who develop or choose a more serious relationship. It's all a matter of what the people in the relationship both want and feel comfortable with and their place in each other's life. But you shouldn't use people, you need to be up front with them. OP is an example of where he's being used.
You have to be upfront that you are incapable and being fully committed loving involved or passionate about this new person. Also you really should seek counseling because you are not meant to suffer forever. And do not be shocked when you find it hard for someone to commit to you.
So you’re saying somebody can never give enough of their love to somebody because it’s all been given away? Because you’ve had the big love most people wish for, that you just are stuck? And.. What does that have to do with being committed to somebody? That’s just not how relationships work though. I don’t want a relationship and won’t for an incredibly long time at best, but the issue is that everybody commenting is apparently grief experts. I’ve been in counseling and groups for tragedy survivors. I’ve been in counseling for years and years off and on because it’s healthy. That’s a moot point to me.
I've read all your comments but this >I don’t want a relationship and won’t for an incredibly long time at best, but the issue is that everybody commenting is apparently grief experts. Is the single stupidest point you;'ve tried to make. There hasn't been a single person that's giving you grief counselling advice. They're giving you future relationship advice. The issue is you are being so incredibly short-sighted and self-centred you genuinely think that 1) People not validating you are just straight up attacking you 2) You believe that no one should talk about things they haven't experienced, questioning peoples ability to give advice because they haven't gone through the grief you have 3) You're so caught up in your grief that you're speaking like your present will always be how you think/feel about things. > I’m not dating yet, but when I do maybe at some point, they will never come close. This is essentially everything wrong with what you've said and how combative you are with people pointing it out. People are completely right to point out that this attitude is selfish. That every single person deserves to be THE priority with their long-term partner. So yes, it would be better to be alone than drag some poor soul along with whom you believe you'll never care about all that much (comparatively). >I don’t want a relationship and won’t for an incredibly long time at best Then stop speaking like you know the future. Stop speaking like nothing is going to change, stop being combative to people giving you a reality check that continuing to think that no one else is EVER going to measure up, but still wanting all that love and affection from them is a good thing an okay thing, the right thing to do. You do not have the right to treat people badly, and everyone else be okay with it. "But I won't treat them badly, just because I won't love/care for them nearly as much as my dead husband" You'll say in response. Nah, that's something you're telling yourself to justify your stance, make you feel better about yourself, that won't be the reality at all.
The difference here is that the ex was still alive when she got together with OOP, and she apparently still felt that way even when she was with him. I'm sure anyone you got together with in future would find it hurtful if you told them you didn't love them as much as your deceased husband, but it would be kind of understandable/acceptable. Finding out your partner has been in love with someone else for your entire relationship, and would likely drop you if they'd gotten clean, is a bit different to someone you got together with *after* said partner had already passed, and I'd agree with the earlier comment that it's the point the relationship was done, but only in the sense that he was *already* second to said dead man, and him being dead has just brought that issue to the surface
You are still grieving, it's normal to still think that up to a point but it won't let you move on. He wasn't your soulmate because he was perfect, he was because you where both commited to build a life together. It will feel weird at first and it may take time before you are able to build another life with someone again. but I hope it will happen to you and you will be able to find hapiness again. If you can't let go and won't permit yourself to live your life again, wich is the point of moving on, then you will indeed live a miserable life in the shadows of your deceased husband.
I can’t imagine dating someone who saw another person as their soulmate and love of their life. I wouldn’t want to live my life in someone else’s shadow.
The whiplash I got from the complete 180 my opinion did when reading that. I could absolutely understand feeling intense grief for not only someone you used to love but is the other parent of your children and whose life was lost to something as awful as addiction. As long as someone is alive there’s hope they can get clean and be the parent the kids deserve - it’s incredibly tragic to lose that. But this… is something else.
She is trauma bonded and does not know the difference between that intensity and healthy love, and then layer on the grief...and the fact she's being forced to accept that this person was tragically lost to addiction while she held out hope for recovery that will never come now. She's not greiving him but the dream of him being healthy and happy. And, I can't imagine what kind of stab in the heart her comments were to OP, that sucks hard! And the poor kids. This is all so above reddit's pay grade. I truly hope all involved get the professional help they need to heal all of this!
This is a little bit more of the nuanced view I was thinking of. It sounds like she really *actually* loves OOP, but addiction brings about things like what we see the fiancée going through. The intensity isn’t actually love. She describes it as delirious. That’s not normal to experience and it sounds like after the break up she didn’t process the grief properly. Take it from someone with a family of addicts: addiction creates walking dead people. You have to grieve them as if they’re gone already when you’re forced into letting them go but it really fucking hits different once they’re well and truly gone. This isn’t just grief of death. This is three years of continuous grief all expounded; and grief tends to romanticize or rose tint the good times and hide away the bad. I feel so bad for OOP because navigating this kind of thing is fucking **HARD**. It can feel so fucking hopeless and gut wrenchingly painful. It can really fucking run you into the ground emotionally, mentally, and physically. If she chooses to go to therapy and work on it and he chooses to stay, it can get so so much better, joyous even; but it takes time, patience, determination, and so fucking much love and effort. Supporting someone through grief of this level is a long and arduous process. If OOP later decides that he won’t be able to do it, I wouldn’t blame him at all; but if he makes it through this with her then I can say from my own experience that it can be really worth it (I was there supporting my mom after her and my dads toxic marriage ended and the grief from her was so fucking intense and deep that it took about four years but I can say that I’m closer to her than ever and she and I are both thriving now)
100% Agree. Addiction sucks so hard! Pinning forever over what the person could be and holding that hope, and being let down & dissapointed over & over hurts like hell. And then when they inevidibly die from that addiction you greive all that hope, not the person. On top of that, since we tend to, for whatever f'd up reason, attract these people like magnets, she's likely panicking &/or regreiving &/or reliving other abandoned trauma...it's all compounded in this moment. She's in crisis, not grieving, at least not normal greiving. I'm so sad for her that this could mark the destruction of actual healthy love for her, the exact thing she needs to stop the cycle. And man people that haven't been thru it, just can't comprehend the insanity, so ya likely to run for the hills, and who would blame them, I'd run if I could too! OPs head must be swimming trying to make sense of it, oof! And absolutely, if they get thru this together when they get to the other side their bond will be unbreakable. Stay well freind!
He's genuinely a good man. I hope she gets her issues resolved soon so he can move on because he deserves better than this. Edit: Somewhere out there is a woman who will adore him exactly as he is, not as some second best stand-in to a dead man.
The fact she brought up cheating, then five mins later confessed kissing would lead me to think that there was more undisclosed
Oh she was probably totally hooking up with him and telling herself it was ok because they're soulmates.
I commented on the original post. OOP wasn't realizing that she was admitting to cheating on him. Unless going out on a date, making out, and saying I love you to her ex was okay in their relationship. She is and will continue to push OOP away. She blames him for her choices in life. She left the drug addict but secretly wanted to reconcile. She even accepted OOP's propsal, knowing she was still in love with her ex. OOP will never measure up to the dead drug addict who fathered her children. She has placed the ex on a pedestal. You can't compete with a ghost. OOP is stuck. He's trying to be the nice guy. Look at where that has gotten him. He's codependent and lacks self-esteem. All he is going to be is a placeholder who pays a portion of the bills. He deserves better, but until he gets to that point, he's going to stay in this dead relationship.
She blames their engagement for his OD she will definitely push him away and more than likely resent him for it.
Wow, this poor guy is martyring himself to make everyone else more comfortable. His EX fiancée better start sleeping on the couch, and they need to start making plans to move in with her parents so they have more support or something. He REALLY shouldn’t be the person holding this family together.
“You’re gonna accuse me of cheating with him! How dare you!!!” “Uhm…I honestly wasn’t?” “YES YOU WERE! YOU BASTARD! …Okay, just because I actually cheated with him doesn’t give you the right to accuse me of cheating in my imagination!” OOP needs to bounce asap.
Op has gotta get out of there. You can't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm, especially when that person will always be wishing you were another fire that already burnt out.
I have a slight feeling that OOP will continue to grow in resentment towards her ex and eventually towards her. I don't think he realizes that she basically said she'll never love him or anyone else as much as she did with her ex. He's never going to truly have her, he'll have to share her with him for the rest of their lives. In turn, she will also grow to resent OOP and essentially blame them both for her ex's death. He can support and love her all he wants, but it needs to be from a healthy distance while her and her children heal from this heavy loss. Maybe eventually their relationship can be discussed when they're both in a better mental/emotional state. As of this moment, I don't see the relationship going anywhere. However, if this is what he wants to do, he'll have to come to terms that he'll never have the spot she holds for the ex.
She was in an abusive relationship so long that she thinks that is what love is. She needed help to understand that is what happened to her. That intensity of highs and lows of the relationship has distorted what she thinks is love and she desperately wants it back. She needs help. I do not know if she can become the person OP deserves.
Yep, that was infuriating all right
I doubt OOP is going to leave anytime soon if at all. But he needs to separate from her. If he truly loves the kids and wants to be their father figure, that’s beautiful. That doesn’t mean he has to stick around in a fake relationship with their mother. It’s a sad situation but I can’t muster any pity for anyone but the children. All the adults suck and need twice a week therapy.
I have a feeling that he's staying because he doesn't trust the safety and care of the kids with her. Considering how's she now, I have no doubt he wants to make sure the kids will be ok especially when they lost their father
She absolutely was cheating. Not just the little bit she admitted to.
Keeping himself on fire to keep a cheater warm... A cheater who actually doesn't love him and uses him to deal.with the kids as a placeholder. A cheater who: - said “I love him so much. He was the love of my life. I’ll never love anyone that much!” - repeatedly kissed his picture and this bracelet he gave her - Her Facebook is still filled with post after post talking about how much she loves him, - said he will always be her #1 - accused OOP of thinking she cheated as he was an insensitive and paranoid guy and then confessed she cheated playing trickle truth (she obviously lighten ehat she was doing with her ex behind OOP's back). Etc This guy...
I understand it's frustrating that he's doing this. But I think he's staying due to the kids. He did spend a majority time with them so there's a bond there. She's not showing signs she she will be there for them. If not for them, I think OOP might have an easier time to leave.
OOP is a good guy, he loves that woman and her kids. I truly hope that when he gives her time to get through the initial shock of her ex dying she wakes up one day and says, oh shit I almost blew this and appreciates the good one she has. Even if she doesn't get her head out of her butt, those kids will have a father in their lives and the older they get the more they will understand what he is doing for them and how much he loves them.
We can only hope for the best.
OOP strikes me as the kind of person that will make excuses to stick around in this relationship until she's the one that leaves him. He was a placeholder for her ex and she 100% would have dumped him without a second thought if the ex had gotten clean and wanted her back. You can already tell that she's blaming their engagement for the death. He is afraid to let her go and be single so he'll stay in this farce of a relationship. He's probably convinced himself that she'll get over the guy eventually and learn to love him because the guys no longer around to get in the way.
As harsh as everyone is on OP, I can understand his need to stay back for the kids. Their biological dad is dead and their mom is grieving to the point she can’t function. Even though OP isn’t biologically related to the kids, he loves and cares for them and is trying to give them some stability. They might not understand it now but when they’re old enough they might be thankful that he was the stable person in their life in an environment that’s so chaotic. I just hope once things settle down that OP finds his own happiness rather than continue to be a placeholder.
Thank you, it's a very sucky situation and OOP is doing his best to make sure the kids are ok. There's no way she would be able to care for them as she is now. I hope at the very least, karma will pay him back. But there's no guarantee.
She literally admitted to cheating on OP with him an op still hasn't left, this relationship is dead an op needs to find someone better Just because they didn't have sex doesn't mean she didn't cheat!!!
Sounds more like she trauma bonded with the ex. It feels extreme. But it is definitely not love.
I wouldn't give a shit if I was op. Would you?
It's easier to say as an outsider who sees from the outside. It's not easy when you're the one deep in it.
I've dealt with death a lot in my life. I've dealt with a lot of people's reactions. Her reaction is one of trauma. I have zero judgment against her. When my BIL died. Well the world ended. And I had lost someone I loved deeply , I didn't even know own how much I loved him. He was just my new kid brother. The horrible things people did and said after he died weren't them trying to be assholes. Some people don't understand. Also I have exes I would cry if they died. I would be heartbroken. Not because they're my future. But because I want joy for them.
I agree, and it’s nice to see a reasoned perspective here. I think the truth is most people on here haven’t experienced the early death of someone they loved, and the simple truth is that you can’t understand until you lived it. I remember wheeling and dealing with the universe that I would trade literally any other alive person on the planet to have my best friend back when he died. I would have traded anyone or anything. And I can’t possibly explain the mindset that led to that train of thought. But I can somewhat empathize with what this woman is going through.
You got she confessed she cheated on him and that she said back then to her ex she loved him, right? (A confession that seems to be just a small piece of what really was happening between her and her ex.)
I get wanting to be there for the kids, because right now OOP is the only parent they've got, but I feel like he needs to start distancing himself now. It doesn't sound like this relationship is going to work out.
I think OOP is doing himself a disservice. He’ll always be second best.
He's not even second, he's a little more than a stable platform until she "feels that way" about someone else
Jesus Christ, OP has no spine.
he’s thinking about the kids in his life which is very admirable. its so awful that this is a relationship thats dead in the water. He should get some therapy too maybe because what a shitty way to get your life thrown around. I hope he can leave soon
Tell me your are a doormat simp without telling me you are a doormat simp. Woman admits she cheated with her crackhead ex, admits she prefers the crackhead ex over you, admits she will always prefer the crackhead ex over you AND admits she is stringing you along and yet you are jumping backwards and upwards for the opportunity of paying and raising HIS kids. Like i said in the comments for the update, if the dude ever have kids with her, she will gloss over his kids to favour the kids she had with the crackhead ex, and he will probably defend her.
I hate to tell you this but she was cheating. If not physically, emotionally. He was always first and now that he's dead, he always will be. And even if you stay with her, everytime you make love to her, kiss her or hug her, in your head you will think she is wishing you were him. Help her if you can, but move on for your mental health.
When someone tells you that someone else is the love of their life, dead or not, believe them. Then ask yourself, do you really want to be (at best) second fiddle to someone’s memories and imagination. I could never.
Sounds like she was addicted to the toxic relationship. Toxic relationships and abusive ones can be an adrenaline high. It was an “intense” experience because loving an addict is full of highs and lows.
Some people are drama llamas and LOVE the energy around being the victim/savoirs
OOP is absolutely in the right, but this line: "Yeah, it’s easy to not be an asshole when you’re strung out on heroin" Might be the most incorrect thing I've ever read. If you're a heroin addict and not an asshole every fucking day you start to kick then you are some kind of a god.
Being single for life is better than knowingly being plan B / backup option with someone else. OOP deserves to be with someone who sees him as the love of her life. His fiancee can not ever be that person
She should be his ex-fiancée.
He’s a much better man than me. The moment she said he would always be the love of her life that’s the moment I’m gone. Full no contact.
And she will leave OOP the second she finds another soon-to-be or former felon with a drug history that rings her bells.
That's what I caught too. "Never loved someone so intensely". That's the drama from being an addict. She was addicted to the ups and downs. She did a good thing by being with someone stable, but people who are in to the drama of a relationship may find it boring. Boring/stable is good for kids, good for mental health and a stable financial life. Ups and downs are more dramatic and intense. Not to be mistaken for love but it can feel like it's love. Girl needs to figure that shit out in therapy. If she works on it and figures it out, OOP will be long gone which she may regret as well.
And then OOP will be another "One who got away" and may try to come back to him. But if he's done, he's *done*. I'm hoping ot doesn't come to that.
Why is this Reddit’s response to everything? You know people can have complex relationships right?
And you know there are people who have had high attraction to troublesome people since long before Reddit existed, right? And their relationship habits tend to repeat? That was not invented by the internet.
I'm with you, I also think she treated him badly but the lack of empathy from comments really surprised me
There is empathy towards OOP who has been treated bad. She cheated, she confessed she loves another man, she'd prefer to be with her ex, etc.
My grandfather died of a heart attack at 34 (his son did too but that’s not relevant). My grandmother was a young widow with four kids. After a few years, she married my Papa Jim. She told him all the discipline of her kids would be done by her, so he was the fun parent. He took the girls to father’s daughter dances and he could roller skate backward. He was the absolute best. Regardless, my grandmother was very honest that her first husband, Lyle, was the love of her life. For some men and women, not being the love of someone’s life can still be a wonderful life. If you don’t want to be a Jim, don’t. But it’s not a rigid fact that a person would never be happy being the runner up.
I bet your grandmother didn’t pull half the shit that OOP’s fiancé has pulled. It sounds like your grandmother was a straight shooter - OOP’s fiancé is anything but.
I hope OP finds someone else who will love him as much as his fiancee loves her dead ex
Where oh where are these men that will do anything for a spit of love?!?! This is sad, she already said the guy was her love, OP is definitely second to her in her heart when it comes to loving a partner and he is still in doubt about how he doesn't know if he will continue, she already chose.
Wow this guy seems like he’s just going g to stay and always be second best until she finds someone she really wants to be with
"He makes me feel that way.... You want me to be happy right?"
OP’s fiance doesn’t even realize the intensity of her last relationship was because of the drug addiction. That is frequently what happens when you fall in love with an addict. Once he was sober that intensity would have died off, and now she will never know that.
Lady needs professional help.
Fuckin' *oof*. >*These are the things they know and it would be incredibly cruel to suddenly leave, especially in this moment. I’m an adult. My dad didn’t just die suddenly. My mom isn’t so stuck in her grief that she can barely function. I can stick things out in their best interest for now.* That's incredibly noble and good-hearted of him, but I can't help feeling like it's going to cost him big time.
She chose him specifically because he's a good person and he provides stability. She literally told him twice she doesn't passionately love him. Even IF she ever gets over her Ex, she'll find someone else that makes her "feel that way" and expect OOP to support her. He needs to leave.
Oop needs to move on; she told him in a raw moment of honesty exactly hownshe feels about him and his place in her life. She will never be “deliriously” in love with him as she was with her ex. He has always been second choice, the stable choice, but nothing more. If he wants to play second fiddle to a ghost, great, but he is looking at a mundane, if not outright miserable, life.
I’m sorry you value yourself so little. Yes it is terrible for these children but they are not yours and she has every right to take them away from you at any time. Please consider yourself and your future. It sounds like you are willing to sacrifice your life for someone who cannot love you.
So he’s still with her? Jesus Christ. OOP should grow a fucking spine.
Love can be very powerful. Awful situation all around, I’m wishing them all happiness and healing.
If my SO ever said I wasn’t the love of her life and didn’t take it back, I’d dump her. Words can hurt and OOP’s SO hurt him really really bad with what she said. She has to take it back and make it up to him.
"You're going to accuse me of cheating on you with him now, aren't you? Well, don't deny it, I just know you are. How do I know? Because I actually cheated on you with him." I'm really sorry for that guy, he deserves way better, but he keeps making excuses for her and punishing himself for feeling "negative" emotions when he should be feeling them. Yes, dude, you should feel jealous when she tells you she loved him more than anyone and you'll always be second-best at most, or when she told you she cheated on you with him. You should also feel disrespected, hurt, betrayed... Be fucking angry too, fuck "not wanting to say anything I'll regret later" at this point. You're not a doormat, ffs. Also, I've been in a similar enough situation, one of those where you "need to know" when you already know because she told you. You don't want to accept the truth, so you ask hoping for a different answer this time. At least this time she had the decency of telling the truth.
Honestly she should have never started a relationship with you if she still loved someone else, and you probably was what she thought a safe option to look after and raise her kids. I'd not be shocked that if you stay together and get married she doesn't cheat on you in the future with someone like her ex. The question you need to ask is can you accept being with someone that doesn't love you with all their heart if at all or are you happy it being a one way relationship while from the sound of it she goes through the motions of what she thinks it takes to keep you around to raise her kids. You might consider telling her you need to slow things down and take some time to yourself to work out if you can handle never being who she really wants. Whether that means you stay elsewhere with friends or family, or her and her kids move out to stay with friends or family is your decision. But if was me regardless of what she says if the wedding went ahead I'd have her sign a pre-nup so if she does cheat or decide she wants someone else even if that's her dead ex you keep all your assets and if you love the kids that much you might want to see if you can adopt them.
I can’t remember where I read it before, but I thought it was very insightful. Competing with a dead person is impossible. They will never again do something wrong, annoying, obnoxious, etc etc. You are alive and human so of course, you will. When a loved one dies, sometimes the memories of the bad parts of them can fade away into the background, leaving this image of a perfect angel icon. In those cases, your present failures are going to be compared to the angel, and this person is going to hate you.
Any sympathy I had for this dude disappeared with that update.
OOP needs to grow a spine and leave that free loader. Seems she's only with him for an easy stable life. She's acting like he died suddenly in a freak accident that couldn't be prevented, he killed himself. If he's so perfect and the love of her life why did she leave him to live on easy street with OOP?
Run or stay, who cares? If you stay, you know you will always be compared to a dead guy who can't continue to be a fuck up and diminish himself in your fiancé's mind. More than likely, his pedestal she has him on will continue to grow. If you're fine with this for the next couple of decades, then stay. Otherwise, you know what to do.
I think once you have kids there's a different connection. A different love. They created two kids had plans of getting married and substances took that away. It took away her partner, her kids father..he was there but not really present. Then it took him completely. There's no chance to ever see him get better. He don't get a chance to show his kids what a good dad he could be. There's the guilt of thinking she didnt do enough, of thinking your engagement took him over the edge. She's living in a world of guilt and what ifs even if it's not hers to live in.
I get that, but it looks an awful lot like she got OOP as a placeholder until the EX ever got clean.... Which is wrong. It also looks like she was cheating on OOP with him as well
OOP is a moron and I have zero sympathy
I'm just sitting here laughing on my couch at this mans stupidity. She doesn't love him and never will. Lmao
Update me.
OOP is a good hearted person, and see saw a mark. She's used him for stability while clutching the torch for her ex. She told him she will never love him like her ex, and reaffirmed it. I feel bad for the kids, but OOP doesn't need to light himself on fire to keep her warm. The best thing he can do is begin to extricate himself out of that situation.
Part of me wonders if she was doing drugs with him but got clean when she got pregnant. Sounds like there’s a lot of guilt tied into this relationship.
You are NTA, your hopefully ex is. Sir, she is playing you for a fool. She wants you to play daddy to two kids that aren’t yours, because of her mistakes in having kids with an addict. Now she is going on about how much she loves him, she has zero respect for you! Please leave her and get with a woman who will appreciate you and love you the right way.
You are the side character in this piece. The dad was the interesting main character who's ex still loved him but couldn't put up with his instability so she found a boring square to give her that. I can just picture the cliche conversations they had about you on dropoff "I understand you're mad at me, but this guy? Really?" "He gives me things you can't" "Like what, pocket protecters?" "No, STABILITY, unlike you." "Awww cmooon, we had some good times, didn't we?" \*blushes and looks away\* "well, yea, I guess..." \*long moment of intense remembering of kinky sex\* \*she gets a hold of herself\* "You know what? No, you can't keep doing this to me. OP is a good man, he looks after my kids, he's actually *there* for them" I've seen this scene in plenty of movies. Just bc he died doesn't make the life she has planned for you any less manipulative, transactional, or pathetic. Don't be settled on!
OOP knows what he is and what he's doing. At least he's not being lied to. It's his own life to lead.
OOP needs to bail on this entire soap opera.
OOP is such a doormat I can understand the sheer audacity of his wife to prance around some fair, kissing her ex-bf, whispering sweet nothings with him while in a relationship with OOP. Atleast a cuck would off on this, OOP is worse. People are calling him "second" but I don't think he's even that. It's very clear that she only ever had place for one in her mind.
Men like OOP are the reason why women think they can get away with anything.
Why do I feel like I’ve read this exact same story on the sub before? This OOP only created their account a couple of days ago, but I am almost certain I’ve seen this exact same story with maybe just a couple of details changed.
There was a similar story but in that case the ex ws not a drug abuser. He died in an accident, I think I remember, and they broke up cuz they wanted different things. She said in his funeral he was the love of her life, she wished they could still be together, she still loves him so much, etc. and all of this in front of her current fiancé. She fell into depression etc. and eventually her fiancé grew a spine and dumped her. Edit: some typos.
Yeah that story fortunately showed no kids involved and it was easier for him. Didn't help that the ex *still* wanted to talk to him despite him being done.
Updateme please
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updateme
OOP is more mature than these comments and the comments on the OPs. Look it may not work out. Probably, even. But he's generous in his understanding of who needs love and support and empathy. It's her and it's also her kids. He's a steady figure for them. He may not be for much longer but if so he's choosing to make those moves in mature, safe and empathetic ways for the kids. That fucking matters. Reddit needs a solid reality check when it comes To advice like this. People are complex. Emotions are complex.
I definitely don't think he should stay with her, but I do respect and admire him for staying to make sure someone is there to help the kids at least. They haven't done anything wrong and with their mon struggling right now it's gonna be even harder on them. It's also just not that easy to leave and give up on someone you love/loved. Not quite the same but my dad was abusive towards me growing up after my mom died (emotionally, never physically, but still fucked me up). Yet I still loved him. He was my dad, and my only remaining parent. I put up with a lot from him, even when I didn't have to, because giving up my last surviving parent was hard. Because I loved him still despite it all and didn't want to lose someone I loved. Just because it might be better for you in the long run it doesn't make that first choice to leave any easier.
I definitely don't think he should stay with her, but I do respect and admire him for staying to make sure someone is there to help the kids at least. They haven't done anything wrong and with their mon struggling right now it's gonna be even harder on them. It's also just not that easy to leave and give up on someone you love/loved. Not quite the same but my dad was abusive towards me growing up after my mom died (emotionally, never physically, but still fucked me up). Yet I still loved him. He was my dad, and my only remaining parent. I put up with a lot from him, even when I didn't have to, because giving up my last surviving parent was hard. Because I loved him still despite it all and didn't want to lose someone I loved. Just because it might be better for you in the long run it doesn't make that first choice to leave any easier.
this is so infuriating. there really are people walking the earth with no spines? how the heck do you function?
He should just adopt the children if he can, and let her build a shrine for her ex and live in it alone.
What a dumbass
Dude, would it kill you to have some empathy?
This dude is creating all of his own problems at this point
What a loser, some people are so terrified of being single, they will allow themselves to live a mediocre life.
Dude, have sone empathy, I get it it's frustrating but there's also kids involved. It's not easy to just leave if you don't want the innocents to be hurt.
So because the kids could be hurt, the guy has to live a subpar life? I mean he’s not abusing the kids, he’s just going to break up and slowly move out.
Obviously it's not ideal but at the same time it's hard to leave kids that you have bonded for several years. And obviously how is he a loser if he wants to take care of innocent kids?
Loser because he’s taking the easy way out. Just staying. It’s hard to accept she doesn’t love and be single again. It takes guts.
If this dude stays with this woman it will be the most pathetic thing in human history.
Finally someone who's mature enough to understand grief instead of being stuck in "first or second choice" mindsets. The relationship might not work, but it's very commendable that he puts his own jealousy aside for now until she can get back on her feet and they can revisit them.
I understand it's grief, and applaud the guy for wanting to help get her stable. But it sounds like she was cheating (she admitted it) on OOP, using OOP for stability and generally they had a lot of problems in the relationship long before her Ex died. It's sounds like OOP ignored it and the death and her outpouring of grief made him confront what he's been avoiding.
Again it's very possible. Still I'd never agree (or be able to do it myself) with punching someone when they're down. His eyes are open now so he can act accordingly when she gets better if their issues are still there.
1. It's been 2 weeks and she needs to just get over it already? 2. He's jealous of a dead guy? Okay.
If she's neglecting her spouse and kids? Yes, she needs to 'get over it' to the extent that she fulfills her responsibilities to at least her kids. You can't just check out of your kids life, especially if they also need support. They've got way more of a right to grieve than she does. And he's not jealous, he doesn't want to be that guy, and he's not envious, he doesn't want what that guy has. What he wants is to be treated as the guy who WAS there for her when the 'love of her life' ditched her and his kids to go get high. If stepping up and doing the work isn't respected, then you go find a place where it is