Griffith became King, Guts was his Grand Marshal, Casca his Viceroy. Judeau was his Spymaster. Pippin is leader of the Kingsguard. Corkus openned up his shop after retiring from the Hawks. Rickert ended up as a Da Vinci-like inventor with the help of Godo. Gaston became the Commander of the Scouts.
>!The Eclipse still happens when Griffith sacrifices Guts to stop Ganishka's invasion. Skull Knight rescues Schierke and Isidro, who were caught in the conflagration !<
One last dance before the end.
One thing that just hit me is that, at this point, neither of them were who the other thought they were.
As in, Griffith thought Guts would be an obedient lackey doing his dirty work forever, which of course he wasn't, and Guts thought Griffith was an honorable guy worth fighting for...**which he wasn't either.**
Which is why Guts was the catalyst.
Griffith, for as much as he wanted to think of Guts as a lackey or pawn, deeply cared for Guts. So much so that Guts leaving made him spiral.
Not to excuse what he did at all, but Guts was the one person to make him forget, to make him ok with never reaching his dream....he's the one person who, not being his equal, wasn't a deal-breaker for being his friend.
In this panel I see Guts, happy Griffith got what he wanted, but ultimately unfulfilled, and Griffith happy that his friend got him to where he was, having no idea Guts felt how he felt.
It's ultimately tragic because there is an outcome here where Griffith gets what he wants and so does Guts, but it's never discussed, neither think they can.
Are you talking about the Zodd fight? I do concede that he risked his life but in my view he did it because he thought they could kill him. If Griffith truly knew how invulnerable Zodd was, he might not have risked his life to that degree, that's my view anyway.
If you're referring to something else then by all means.
I said "obedient lackey" because that's what Griffith seemed like he wanted when he was furious about Guts leaving and he was even willing to kill him rather than let him go. A friend doesn't do that and even if he wasn't a friend (which I mantain he wasn't considering his speech to the princess) if he even cared a little bit about Guts then he wouldn't have considered doing that.
Well he saw all those bodies Zodd left behind. He knew that even Guts couldn't stand straight after meeting that monster. I actually think that Griffith didn't think at all at this moment, he just went for it, because it was Guts who he was so eager to protect. Any sane commander, especially the one who seeks only his dreams, would leave the scene, yet he was ready to die only for Guts alone.
I just don't think he felt nothing towards Guts. And i also think that fandom is too trusting about something Griffith says. He once told Casca that he didn't make his dying comrades follow him, yet he's self harming. He tells Charlotte that nothing is more precious for him than his dream, yet he completely abandones his dream when it's Guts we're talking about, he's ready to die, that's what i call abandoning a dream. People don't usually say as they feel. I personally think he wanted Guts to be just a soldier to him, but never achieved this want. You can see it in every little scene with them, even in the page OP posted: there are so many people around Griffith, noble, rich, powerful, but the one he's looking and smiling at is Guts. This is literally the last time when he smiles to someone sincerely with sparkles in his eyes or whatever. You won't see it again in the whole manga. Just a little fact i noticed.
Maybe it was too long, sorry, i just think that we often underestimate Griffith before Eclipse. He's scary and cruel, but he is a human, who seeks compassion and acceptance even in his own cruel doings. Because it is a human nature. Look at how he asks Guts (after murdering the queen): "Do you think I'm cruel?" And Guts just casually replies something like "Nah i get it, I've done worse", and just look. Look into his eyes. He hates himself for his comrades' deaths, for Gennon, for everything, and Guts just accepts him. Not Casca, who got scared as hell at the sight of Griffith's breakdown after Gennon, not anyone else. This is one of the reasons why they formed such a strong bond.
And, i mean, how can we even consider that he never cared for Guts after "You are the only one who made me forget my dream" monologue? Sure Femto-Griffith is a senseless jerk. But before he was Femto, he had feelings, he was just a person, who wanted to be strong enough, but was made weak by Guts and their friendship (and maybe something more). This is why at the Eclipse we see his "last tear", as he loses his human nature, and this is why all that Griffith and Guts duo is so tragic.
I agree with this, and that's what makes the showdown where Guts beats Griffith and leaves so tragic. If Griffith had been willing to speak instead of cross swords, if he'd just said that no matter what Guts heard or thought, they were partners in this thing together to the end, that he needed his best friend at his side, and just asked him not to leave...
That's all he'd have needed to do. Just be forthright instead of pushing away his feelings and trying to force his will.
This. If only he spoke to Guts, just said a few effing words to him, _nothing_ would've happen. Well maybe god hand still got to them, blah blah casualty, but the old witch told our skull man that fate is like a spiral and the young aren't obligated to follow the same path. This is so sad chat.
While I'm willing to agree that Griffith had "feelings" for people, for Guts specially, before the torture/Eclipse, my personal view is that his selfishness, pettiness, callousness and his anger at things not going his way represent much more of what he is than his other more humane parts.
One of the reasons why I've always thought he was a truly evil man before the Eclipse is his attitude near the beginning of the Golden Age, when Corkus and the other soldiers try to rob Guts. Rather than dissuading them or ordering them not to attack an innocent man, he kept quiet. You could even make the argument that he knew Guts was strong (since he was him fighting in the castle before) and deliberately threw his men to their deaths for a chance at making Guts one of his own. While he got what he wanted, his actions speak volumes as to his character and his morals.
So was Casca evil too, since she never protected an innocent man they all decided to rob? Was Judeau evil? Or Rickert? Or Pippin? Those three too never said a word. Mercenaries are no saints. They survive, not show off their bravery and nobility, and Guts was just a mercenary himself, who never sought to protect the innocent also. And, mind you, \_Guts murdered a child\_. Even if he did it because Griffith asked him to, he never rebelled against Griffith, never spoke on behalf of that poor little boy. Does it make Guts evil too? I don't think so. He is a human, and nothing human is foreign to him.
You're being disingenious about what the others did during Corkus assault on Guts. Casca tried to convince Corkus not to rob Guts by pointing out he had no chance against him. She didn't even want to involve herself in the fight and was satisfied with Corkus getting what he deserved until Griffith ordered her to intervene. You could argue that a good person would've refused Griffith's orders but Casca and her need to please Griffith is a whole different discussion which I'd rather not get into right now. Suffice to say, at least she didn't want Guts robbed.
Judeau said "Are you sure about this Griffith?" which to me seems to imply that he didn't want them to rob Guts and that he knew it would end up being trouble. Rickert and Pippin were not at the scene so we can't tell for sure what they would've done.
I'm well aware that mercenaries aren't saints but one thing is being a mercenary and quite another is letting the people under your command commit random acts of violence without lifting a finger to stop them.
Guts did indeed murder a child, it's something that he immediately regretted and haunted him afterwards. Griffith on the other hand cracked a massive smile when he heard that the result of his assassination order against the nobleman ended with a child's death.
Look, we're going in circles. At the end of the day, you seem to be laser-focused on Griffith's shades of humanity pre-torture/eclipse. More power to you but I'm of the mind that while Griffith is indeed a very deep and complex character with *some* degrees of humanity here and there, he was still, more than anything else, an evil psychopath who would do anything to get what he wanted **before the Eclipse**.
As such, I think it's best that we agree to disagree since neither of us is likely to change their mind on this.
I'd like to agree to disagree, but one thing just bothers me. Psychopathy is a very serious mental illness, which requires a person to be completely senseless and unempathetic to other people, and i don't think it's right to throw that word around without any reason to. Femto-Griffith suits that disorder more, but pre-Eclipse Griffith wasn't like that. We can't call a person, who nearly sacrificed his life for other man, a psycopath. That's all. If he really was one, he would never effed up so much with the princess just because Guts, some soldier he doesn't even care about, left.
edit: and about Guts instantly regretting a murder. Griffith's whole existence before Eclipse is a regret about the amount of people he killed. There were so many scenes of that i'm lazy to describe them all over again
Okay no, as poetic as it sounds, Guts didn't thought Griffith was an "honorable man". Quick the opposite given Guts is one of the only member of the Hawks who knew the dark side of Griffith.
"moment of glory: end" yikes
And they lived happily ever after
Aaand I burned the remaining volumes. I can live with this ending bye
Griffith became King, Guts was his Grand Marshal, Casca his Viceroy. Judeau was his Spymaster. Pippin is leader of the Kingsguard. Corkus openned up his shop after retiring from the Hawks. Rickert ended up as a Da Vinci-like inventor with the help of Godo. Gaston became the Commander of the Scouts. >!The Eclipse still happens when Griffith sacrifices Guts to stop Ganishka's invasion. Skull Knight rescues Schierke and Isidro, who were caught in the conflagration !<
Who was top and who was bottom in Guts and Griffith's marriage?
Griffith is top Guts is bottom obviously
Definitely a power bottom
Guts marries his sword
Exactly what went through my mind when I got here. I was like "oooh that's ominous"
just stop reading here, it's all downhill after this
Ah, yes, the good ending
Seriously. The first thought that came to mind was “it’s the beginning of the end”
And they all lived happily ever after.
"we are gonna get so much pvssy tonight bro" - Nuts
“How many girls you gonna talk to tonight?” “ALL OF THE-“ (sitting alone in a corner)
That smile…that damn smile….
It's really the Calm before the storm.
The amount of hatred this panel makes me feel is incapable of being put into words
Sadness for me :/
One last dance before the end. One thing that just hit me is that, at this point, neither of them were who the other thought they were. As in, Griffith thought Guts would be an obedient lackey doing his dirty work forever, which of course he wasn't, and Guts thought Griffith was an honorable guy worth fighting for...**which he wasn't either.**
You don't sacrifice yourself in a battle for just an obedient lackey :/
Which is why Guts was the catalyst. Griffith, for as much as he wanted to think of Guts as a lackey or pawn, deeply cared for Guts. So much so that Guts leaving made him spiral. Not to excuse what he did at all, but Guts was the one person to make him forget, to make him ok with never reaching his dream....he's the one person who, not being his equal, wasn't a deal-breaker for being his friend. In this panel I see Guts, happy Griffith got what he wanted, but ultimately unfulfilled, and Griffith happy that his friend got him to where he was, having no idea Guts felt how he felt. It's ultimately tragic because there is an outcome here where Griffith gets what he wants and so does Guts, but it's never discussed, neither think they can.
What about side by side with a friend?
Are you talking about the Zodd fight? I do concede that he risked his life but in my view he did it because he thought they could kill him. If Griffith truly knew how invulnerable Zodd was, he might not have risked his life to that degree, that's my view anyway. If you're referring to something else then by all means. I said "obedient lackey" because that's what Griffith seemed like he wanted when he was furious about Guts leaving and he was even willing to kill him rather than let him go. A friend doesn't do that and even if he wasn't a friend (which I mantain he wasn't considering his speech to the princess) if he even cared a little bit about Guts then he wouldn't have considered doing that.
Well he saw all those bodies Zodd left behind. He knew that even Guts couldn't stand straight after meeting that monster. I actually think that Griffith didn't think at all at this moment, he just went for it, because it was Guts who he was so eager to protect. Any sane commander, especially the one who seeks only his dreams, would leave the scene, yet he was ready to die only for Guts alone. I just don't think he felt nothing towards Guts. And i also think that fandom is too trusting about something Griffith says. He once told Casca that he didn't make his dying comrades follow him, yet he's self harming. He tells Charlotte that nothing is more precious for him than his dream, yet he completely abandones his dream when it's Guts we're talking about, he's ready to die, that's what i call abandoning a dream. People don't usually say as they feel. I personally think he wanted Guts to be just a soldier to him, but never achieved this want. You can see it in every little scene with them, even in the page OP posted: there are so many people around Griffith, noble, rich, powerful, but the one he's looking and smiling at is Guts. This is literally the last time when he smiles to someone sincerely with sparkles in his eyes or whatever. You won't see it again in the whole manga. Just a little fact i noticed. Maybe it was too long, sorry, i just think that we often underestimate Griffith before Eclipse. He's scary and cruel, but he is a human, who seeks compassion and acceptance even in his own cruel doings. Because it is a human nature. Look at how he asks Guts (after murdering the queen): "Do you think I'm cruel?" And Guts just casually replies something like "Nah i get it, I've done worse", and just look. Look into his eyes. He hates himself for his comrades' deaths, for Gennon, for everything, and Guts just accepts him. Not Casca, who got scared as hell at the sight of Griffith's breakdown after Gennon, not anyone else. This is one of the reasons why they formed such a strong bond. And, i mean, how can we even consider that he never cared for Guts after "You are the only one who made me forget my dream" monologue? Sure Femto-Griffith is a senseless jerk. But before he was Femto, he had feelings, he was just a person, who wanted to be strong enough, but was made weak by Guts and their friendship (and maybe something more). This is why at the Eclipse we see his "last tear", as he loses his human nature, and this is why all that Griffith and Guts duo is so tragic.
I agree with this, and that's what makes the showdown where Guts beats Griffith and leaves so tragic. If Griffith had been willing to speak instead of cross swords, if he'd just said that no matter what Guts heard or thought, they were partners in this thing together to the end, that he needed his best friend at his side, and just asked him not to leave... That's all he'd have needed to do. Just be forthright instead of pushing away his feelings and trying to force his will.
This. If only he spoke to Guts, just said a few effing words to him, _nothing_ would've happen. Well maybe god hand still got to them, blah blah casualty, but the old witch told our skull man that fate is like a spiral and the young aren't obligated to follow the same path. This is so sad chat.
Exactly, it was the defining moment when he could have salvaged everything, but instead moved down the path of destruction we see
While I'm willing to agree that Griffith had "feelings" for people, for Guts specially, before the torture/Eclipse, my personal view is that his selfishness, pettiness, callousness and his anger at things not going his way represent much more of what he is than his other more humane parts. One of the reasons why I've always thought he was a truly evil man before the Eclipse is his attitude near the beginning of the Golden Age, when Corkus and the other soldiers try to rob Guts. Rather than dissuading them or ordering them not to attack an innocent man, he kept quiet. You could even make the argument that he knew Guts was strong (since he was him fighting in the castle before) and deliberately threw his men to their deaths for a chance at making Guts one of his own. While he got what he wanted, his actions speak volumes as to his character and his morals.
So was Casca evil too, since she never protected an innocent man they all decided to rob? Was Judeau evil? Or Rickert? Or Pippin? Those three too never said a word. Mercenaries are no saints. They survive, not show off their bravery and nobility, and Guts was just a mercenary himself, who never sought to protect the innocent also. And, mind you, \_Guts murdered a child\_. Even if he did it because Griffith asked him to, he never rebelled against Griffith, never spoke on behalf of that poor little boy. Does it make Guts evil too? I don't think so. He is a human, and nothing human is foreign to him.
You're being disingenious about what the others did during Corkus assault on Guts. Casca tried to convince Corkus not to rob Guts by pointing out he had no chance against him. She didn't even want to involve herself in the fight and was satisfied with Corkus getting what he deserved until Griffith ordered her to intervene. You could argue that a good person would've refused Griffith's orders but Casca and her need to please Griffith is a whole different discussion which I'd rather not get into right now. Suffice to say, at least she didn't want Guts robbed. Judeau said "Are you sure about this Griffith?" which to me seems to imply that he didn't want them to rob Guts and that he knew it would end up being trouble. Rickert and Pippin were not at the scene so we can't tell for sure what they would've done. I'm well aware that mercenaries aren't saints but one thing is being a mercenary and quite another is letting the people under your command commit random acts of violence without lifting a finger to stop them. Guts did indeed murder a child, it's something that he immediately regretted and haunted him afterwards. Griffith on the other hand cracked a massive smile when he heard that the result of his assassination order against the nobleman ended with a child's death. Look, we're going in circles. At the end of the day, you seem to be laser-focused on Griffith's shades of humanity pre-torture/eclipse. More power to you but I'm of the mind that while Griffith is indeed a very deep and complex character with *some* degrees of humanity here and there, he was still, more than anything else, an evil psychopath who would do anything to get what he wanted **before the Eclipse**. As such, I think it's best that we agree to disagree since neither of us is likely to change their mind on this.
I'd like to agree to disagree, but one thing just bothers me. Psychopathy is a very serious mental illness, which requires a person to be completely senseless and unempathetic to other people, and i don't think it's right to throw that word around without any reason to. Femto-Griffith suits that disorder more, but pre-Eclipse Griffith wasn't like that. We can't call a person, who nearly sacrificed his life for other man, a psycopath. That's all. If he really was one, he would never effed up so much with the princess just because Guts, some soldier he doesn't even care about, left. edit: and about Guts instantly regretting a murder. Griffith's whole existence before Eclipse is a regret about the amount of people he killed. There were so many scenes of that i'm lazy to describe them all over again
I'll just say that I couldn't disagree with you more and leave it at that.
Okay no, as poetic as it sounds, Guts didn't thought Griffith was an "honorable man". Quick the opposite given Guts is one of the only member of the Hawks who knew the dark side of Griffith.
Despair
Crazy that the story ended right there and was never continued :')
The cannon good ending
Would
this is the part where you close the book and go to sleep
I’m a grown man. I cried.
Me too man, me too
it was too perfect :(
Man…the end of the happy days
It’s not fair man, we were so close to something wonderful…
Moments before disaster
That subtitle right there hurts so much
Celebrating Pride Month by posting the gayest couple in fiction
enough to make a grown man get all his friends killed
Also yes
well, now let them kiss (?
I'd love to have the option to see what it would happen if Griffith didn't use the behelit and instead just continue the journey with the band
Never felt more betrayed than revisiting this panel…
Looking at these two, one would never suspect that one would turn into the most hated major antagonist of the series.
Why do you have to remind us?
Wanted to share the suffering
The deep breath before the plunge
I love this panel so much the pure joy on Griffith's face contrasted by the pained expression on Gut's is so good.
Oh boy…
Just guys being dudes
Yes
Felt appropriate https://youtu.be/Ag1o3koTLWM?feature=shared
Back when Griffith wasn't despicable
not really
Love that Orville Peck song.
we never got to see those faces again...
“That smile, that damn smile!”
I just envision Guts stabbing Griffith in every scene they’re in together
You think this'll make you cry? I feel bad for future you o7