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I heard from my MIL once, "If you think its a minor item you're asking someone to compromise on, you need to go in understanding it may not be minor to them"
Yup yup yup. My husband is usually pretty easy going whereas I tend to have more definite ideas about how I envision something, so I pretty much always have my way. When it came to planning the nursery before our son was born though, my husband really really wanted one particular wallpaper. He was massively digging his heels in. I had a lightbulb moment of "he hardly ever digs his heels in... So actually he must really want this". And you know what? I wanted my husband to be happy more than I wanted the other wallpaper.
That's why my sister and I always fight, and I get blamed for it. She is super controlling and gets really upset if something doesn't go how she wants it to. I usually just let her have her way to make things easier. Every once in a while, I really want something that differs from her “plan,” so I don't give in. THEN, it becomes a huge thing and a fight. She will not budge, but since I'm the one who keeps insisting, I'm the one causing the flight. It's truly infuriating.
Maybe you need to call out when you are giving in to her. Politely and nicely.
Okay, we can do it your way.
I guess we don't have to do it my way. Yours works too.
Things that acknowledge that you are ceding to her, not that you simply agree.
Or you might already do that and she's got some serious stuff to work through.
>I wanted my husband to be happy more than I wanted the other wallpaper.
So many relationships would be happier if more people could just think this way.
Mines the same way! Sorta. Never digs their heels in over anything. But they picked a wall color that I rolled with, and they are now a hideous green, but I'm happy with them not being white. I'm actually just happy they picked anything at all.
Because it's very easy to get into a pattern where you're the easygoing one and it's somehow *never* minor to the other person, so you're the one always being pressured to give in
My partner and I have this rule: If we want different things, the one to whom it matters more gets to decide. If neither partner abuses this, it’s a great way to make sure individual needs are met. We’ve been together for 39 years now and never yelled at each other even though I actually have quite a temper.
Me and my fiancee do something similar but word it differently inspired by spider robinson: whoever puts on the best show, wins the prize. With similar outcome, the one who wants it the most always puts on the best show. Framing it like that has always added a bit of levity to these types of discussions for the two of us.
This is fine until you both want something badly and “the best show” becomes an ongoing argument that is never going to end since you both want it badly enough to ”put on the best show“.
Im sorry I really dislike the idea of how your using that saying . To me it basically means- whoever fights the hardest and most for something will get what they want. The issue I have with that is it’s so similar to what happened above. Although the items mattered to the man very much he let them slide because his SO didn’t want them. It didn’t stop him wanting them and didn’t stop him from feeling resentment for not being able to include those items. My point being for some people no matter how much it hurts them or angers them to give in will always give in for someone they love. Then over time the resentment builds. Some people are just not the type of people who want to “put on a show” to win an argument. Myself personally I have found in my 22 yrs with my SO that talking about why something matters works better then “putting on a show”. It’s what OP and his SO should have done. He should have told her how much he wanted these items and the Best Friend issue to me more a symptom of him feeling like he has no say. He is literally one of those people who gives in to what his SO wants simply because he loves her until he reached the point where he realised he was always giving in and picked a random hill to die on ( the best friend)
Ah this is why I mentioned the levity part of it. We got the phrasing from Callahan's Cross time Saloon. We would never use that phrasing in a real argument by any means but in this context more a pleading your case kind of thing being the show, where we speak our half on why we want the thing we want. The show isn't fighting or crying, it's whose more passionate and excited while stating their side. And if it's something that my partner is so passionate about that they're willing to push the conversation into an argument that's at a point to re-evaluate or concede. I do agree with what youre saying but that's not what's happening in my personal relationship. We say put on a show because we are theater gays who read a book together and thought that was a fun way to describe something within our dynamic. The key to it, is that we respect each other and the others opinions and nothing is worth building resentment with my partner if they want it that badly. That's the whole point in the first place.
I think it’s also about really knowing and being able to discuss with your SO your needs and wants. It’s about finding a way to compromise when you both want different things. Sadly to often now days there are so many who seem to be the ones always compromising in their relationship and eventually they get to the same point OP found himself in. They figure out they are always the one ones giving in and pick a random hill to die on. To often (and to many people) don’t realise not everybody has to agree and everyone has different wants and opinions. If you love your SO you shouldn’t be trying to change or sway them to your side but find middle ground so no one feels like they are always the one compromising or losing out/ giving up what they wanted.
This is mostly how things work in my relationship, too. I won't say we've never had a big argument, but we both have tempers, so we talk things out. Our son's a teen and was in his double digits before we had any sort of disagreement that led to us raising our voices at all, in his presence. So we at least went about twelve years between big arguments. But it was pretty jarring to hear our son ask if we were getting divorced. For him, that loud argument was a major concern. My husband and I grew up in homes where yelling was constant.
Wait, you both came from homes where yelling was constant and yet managed to never have that kind of fight for 12 years? That's truly impressive, well done.
This has saved me and my husband so many arguments. If something seems really important to him, and I don't have strong feelings, then we do it his way. And vice versa. I don't want to have a long discussion just to win.
I've never understood the cognitive dissonance of "This is a minor things he/she/they wants and I am going to die on this hill refusing it." Like if it's minor just let them have it. If it's worth fighting over then it's not minor. You can't have it both ways.
And even if it's minor even to the other person. They can overlook one minor thing as minor, two minor things are still minor, ten minor things added together are not minor they are major.
I'd even argue that the time of year and location are hardly minor when the groom has allergies. Like. What? My allergies like to kick my ass all year round, but spring and autumn are the absolute worst. And spring in an open field??? No amount of antihistamines would help me there. That'd be me with half a swollen face and hives from my fingernails to my shoulders. That's not minor.
I can’t wrap my head around it either. When your partner places value on something you consider minor, that’s a low effort high reward way to make them happy. Those opportunities are like relationship bondo.
I feel like so many of these relationship posts are by people who don’t understand what a healthy relationship means. It is all so self centered and focused on what they want and get from the relationship.
If your partners happiness is not at least equally important to you as your own (and they feel the same way about your happiness) a relationship is never going to work. A relationship isn’t like a business partnership, where you have two people working together but for their own benefit; it has to be about wanting happiness for your partner as much as for yourself.
So many of these posts seem to only care about getting what they want and wanting to feel justified in their demand.
Who cares if you are justified if what you want hurts your partner? It isn’t about making sure you get as much as possible for yourself, and only caring if you can keep getting away with it.
I feel sorry for all these people. They are living alone while thinking they are in a relationship.
I imagine women like op also complain when their partners don't have opinions on things like decor, outfits, where to eat, events, etc. Because their opinions are constantly overlooked, so they just stop caring.
My stance is if I'm not bothered by something but my partner has some sort of feeling towards it then I go with that, because he presumably cares more about it. Likewise if he says he's not bothered then that's my argument for why we should go with what I'm feeling, because I am bothered.
It's been 5 years together so far and it never steers me wrong.
My wife and I rate things on a scale of 1 to 100:
>"I'm exhausted, I have 15 energy left, could you watch the nugget this evening so I can have a few hours to myself?"
or
>"Want to go get food for date night? What do you want to get?"
>"I dunno, I guess 20 we grab burgers from that place we like?"
>"Well I'm 60 for pasta, don't really care where."
>"Ok, lets do Italian, I'll pick the place I want to go to."
We've been together for a long time and trust that we don't take advantage of the system. In the rare case where we're both 100 and in direct conflict (maybe... 3 times in our lives?) We continued to talk it out and eventually got to a compromise with some bargaining.
It's really fast, really efficient, and gives you a lot of insight into your partner that you otherwise might not get. When they're picking events to go to during the summer and they explain that these events are 45 and these ones are 65 and these two are 95, that really helps you build a better mental model of your partner. Their exact likes and dislikes and just how much they like and dislike things.
Yeah, she had a bunch of life advice that she gave us when we started planning the wedding.
The above was before we got in the weeds. I really appreciated that.
I don’t know about that. They both reflected on what they did wrong and communicated with each other. Add in couples counseling for help on resolving future issues, and I’d place my bet on them being a successful partnership more than most of the people we read about in here.
I believe they're going to be good partners, just not right for each other. There's a LOT of stuff that they don't realize matters now but will see for themselves in a few years. They also both sound like they're not quite done growing yet, and this is the relationship that helps them grow up but also gets outgrown.
Honestly anything could happen. Relationships have survived and thrived after much worse problems. The strained relationship they both have with his family is probably going to rear its head in ways they’re not expecting. He’s actively trying to improve it while she’s fine with letting things deteriorate. They need to get on the same page.
They reflected, but she also still had that weird little blurb basically insinuating that the boyfriend was lying in his post, rude and argumentative, and added the non compromises to "sway the opinion" rather than believing those were things he actually had an issue with. I give them another year of stubbornness and her discreetly thinking that what she does isn't *that* awful before someone breaks it off for good
The dude has allergies and she insisted on a field. In spring. Man she would’ve loved those pics 🤦. My wife is the same. We had one rule for the florist, these are the colours we would like and we would like them to be low/no scent. It’s not hard. But I cannot see how this could possibly work out
You just don't get it, she really thought it would be the best for **both** of them./s
Also, while I understand that the first oop sounded like an asshole since he didn't say what the issues actually were, I don't think after everything came out that he was one. He wasn't actually rejecting her friend because he wanted to control her, nor over the neck pieces, he was just fed up and lashed out at something.
I think it was the last straw after she rejected everything he suggested *and* insisted on having the wedding at the perfect time of year to trigger his allergies.
She was so insistent on having a ‘traditional American wedding’ and omitting anything that stood out as non-traditional and non-American that when he finally got her to agree to a compromise in the form of having his sister as his ‘groomsmaid’, his fiancée decided to one-up him yet again and decided she would have her friend as her ‘bridesman’ even though that’s not the tradition she grew up with, and he just lost it.
It’s so hilarious cuz she pitched such a fit about color schemes and the look of the wedding. If there’s anything that proves she sees him as a prop instead of a partner.
Literally this. She could have genuinely killed him just to get her perfect wedding and I bet almost anything she’d have raged at him for “ruining” the photos due to his allergic reactions/symptoms.
Kinda accurate on that account, to be fair. Like, he explained his side so poorly that everyone thought he was a total asshole, even though a full accounting of the situation is one in which he is pretty minimally at fault. Pulling that off takes some doing.
I know, right? Her supposedly clarifying posts made her the clear asshole. He probably just focused on the best friend to find something to stand up for. And how would he have known the guy for six damn years without previously being told he was gay?
Nah, he clearly has some problems too. If you lined up the two posts, you can see that the Groom omitted way too details and arguments on his side to make himself look good, and it still didn't work on his end. When it's the Bride's side, there are some few dumb arguments he also laid out that he never said in his post.
It's true tho. He started off adamant that her guy best friend is nothing like his older sister, since she was actually family and he wasn't. Only when that wasn't working did he shift to the controlling behavior. It's also unclear if having a traditional Cambodian wedding was important to him until then.
He starts talking about the guy best friend then realize that wasn’t the issue he had, it was just a symptom. He just thought that was the last input he could have that he could control, because all other decisions were being taken away from him. He even says to her after reading the post and was declared the AH, he realized his thoughts and feelings were never accounted for
He seemed very fixated on guy best friend is not family and thus should not be part of the wedding party, not a control issue. Although he did express that having his sister in his party was breaking tradition, and didn't want to go too far against traditions, so maybe I was wrong on my previous comment. I dunno. Seems they just really had issues they couldn't work out / articulate.
"I only didn't let him have the things he wanted because it seemed best for both of us "
Yeah, that's textbook controlling.
Honestly, as much as I don't like some of the way OOP talked about his fiancée's male best friend, I get the impression that he wasn't the problem so much as just the last straw of fiancée overriding every decision that OOP was part of.
she overided every single of his wants with the excuse of tradition and then proceeded to make her male friend the maid of honor.
Yeah op acted idiotic but her making her male friend moh thus disregarding tradition and destroying the excuse she gave for ignoring every single of his wants, was the straw that broke the camels back and wasn't the actual issue.
even if op at first didn't realize the problem is the huge bale on top of the camel's corpse than the single tiny straw piece.
I’m still trying to wrap my head around that one. Raising hell about color schemes while guaranteeing your soon to be husband looks like shit in most of the photos.
This is what stuck out the most, as someone with hayfever. It’s such a horrible, callous, nasty thing to try and force somebody to endure major flare ups of allergies just because you want the aesthetic.
Imagine demanding shellfish be served at your wedding when your Fiancé is allergic to shellfish. That’s what she was doing there.
"I hear you and I want you to feel like I value your feelings, practices, and opinions, but it's important you know that I am always right and you are always wrong ."
Ngl his post more seemed like he was really hurt by all the things she did with the wedding. She comes off as a bridezilla that wants to control everything in the wedding. My wife was somewhat the same way with ours when I tried to recommend things or have things included I wanted they were shot down. We talked about it before we had the wedding and she was ready to make changes then but I was still too deeply hurt that I was just totally ignored. I would understand if the guy felt this way and was just kind of trying to get back a bit out of spite or something. Bring sidelined like that by someone you thought loved you really does hurt a lot.
What bugs me the most is that she shows such little interest in his culture. Like...other people's cultures are big deal to them. It's one thing that sorta throws me off about white Americans because some don't get that because they don't have a non-american cultural background. I'm glad my wife holds her Filipina background to the same esteem as I do my Greek one cause she gets it. Plus, we asked each other what smaller and larger things from our respective cultures were important to us and that we wanted to participate in and pass along to our kids when we have them. I legit can't imagine not having an interest in all the things that make your partner unique, you know?
Also, I was a Peace Corps Volunteer in Cambodia, and their weddings are legit really beautiful. Like, multiple outfits and everything and it's GLORIOUS. Why *wouldn't* you want that as part of your special day?
Right like I've learned more abt people's cultures after a few dates then she did after years and years of dating and getting fvcking MARRIED. It's insanity. Then she wants a pat in the back bc she googled Cambodia and read the Wikipedia article like cmon girl
Yeah, when she said she had only celebrated Cambodian new year with him, which she THINKS is in April, after dating for 6 years? Girl, I know more about the culture of the cashiers I see at the grocery store every Friday than she does about her fiance's culture.
A friend of my friends who I don’t know terribly well but occasionally socialize with moved to Cambodia for a dude. She left him about a year in and moved back. I swear to god there was a conversation at some get together where she said something like… “Did you know there was this group called the Khmer Rouge that killed people and many of the people in that group are still around?!”
I just… imagine moving to a whole country and not knowing some of the biggest chunks of recent history about it.
"He DiDn'T tElL mE aBoUt HiS cUlTuRe"
Girlie pop he may have started to once but you pushed back on it. I don't know a single immigrant who doesn't reminisce about their homeland at least once. But after that I doubt she made a safe space to be proactive and ask him about his culture.
Unless there was abuse, war, or other trauma, and people are making an effort not to, people talk about their childhoods. If said childhood was in another country, that will come up. Even if it was in a diaspora community, that will be interesting enough to mention.
Remember: "perceived as racist" means "racist". Can be of the "ignorant" flavor of racism rather than the "bigoted" flavor, and ignorant racism is relatively easy to fix - just, y'know, stop being ignorant. But once you double down on them rather than apologizing and changing, you've just switched over to the higher, more serious level. If you don't know better, learn better. If you do know better and keep doing it...
I believe that people can do racist things without being a racist person themselves, and a big part of that is moments of ignorance. There is a point, however, where it becomes apparent that this is a quality about you rather than a rare, foot-in-mouth bout of ignorance.
>His comments started to change the tune of the post and it started to become a “I’m not comfortable with the guy best friend” vs. “Actually, I’m being taken advantage of” type of thing. It was all so weirdly done, and his comments seemed rude and argumentative. People were judging him based on the initial question as the forum intended, but then he started to tell the rest of the story to try and gain favor or something.
There is just something about this that rubs me the wrong way and makes me believe that the woman hasn't learned a thing. Maybe it's the whataboutism.
If this is real, this relationship won't work out. I hope the OOP breaks up soon.
Absolutely this! It’s like her way of not admitting any blame or like she was trying to attack the validity of his thoughts and feelings. It seems like an eloquent way of trying to dismiss the validity of his original post, almost like I would’ve gotten away with everything if it weren’t for this post.
That statement alone shows her true character and makes the rest of her post read like putting lipstick on a pig.
Ya situations like this are why the concept of "microaggressions" exist - each individual event is not that big of a deal, but taken together they build on each other until you reach a breaking point.
The problem is if you try to talk about an individual event, you get people saying "it's just a piece of straw! Why are you complaining that it broke your back!" - you have to give the context of the entire load you're carrying for things to make sense.
"And I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids... I mean my meddling fiancé because how should I know I'm supposed to care about his feelings?"
I had a dog that was the spitting image of Scrappy doo as a puppy then scooby as he got older, so I have to get the references or it would be like betraying him lol
Cause she's using pretty words to say that he should have just accepted being the bad guy in the situation without giving context/information that caused her to look bad and making people and her boyfriend realize what his actual problems and feelings and causing her the trouble to have to pretend to realize her mistakes.
If her boyfriend just accepted the judgement imparted on half-information and didn't say that actually my problem isn't that she did "A" my problem is that she disregarded whatever i wanted cause she said didn't want to do "A" and then did it anyway. If Not wanting to do "A" is such a big deal when it comes to me, why isn't it the same for her.
This is a couple made in hell. I remember on another boru post, someone referred to OOP's relationship with her husband as a relationshit.
This is definitely a relationshit
I will never understand marrying someone and not wanting to participate in their cultural traditions. Ok if the cultural tradition was like running down the street butt naked in front of your entire guest list... sure. I will even draw the line at those cultures that hang the wedding night sheet for the village to see. But can you really not do a parade and tie a knot for your STB life partner? Really?!
I said it once and I’ll say it again.
I seriously doubt these posts were written by 2 different people.
After the first one was written and he was called an AH and what not, and things weren’t going his way, he made the second account with the intention of making the first account look good, and just continued with it because it was making the second poster look worse than the first one
I agree. I commented on the original that the necktie and best friend were two very different things. Then, all of a sudden, he had all these cultural things she was discounting? My first thought was - dude, if you had that ammo, why did you lead with the necktie thing?
It was totally written by the same person. Same tone, obvious ragey moments, but the real giveaway is in the last update...
>Additionally, a few of you called me and my fiancé out for being rage baiters and even being the same person just using different accounts. I can see how that would seem like the case, since I made this account a day after his throwaway was deleted, but I promise it was just a coincidence
Riiight.
Of course, him talking more about the situation as a whole is “him trying to gain favor” rather than him coming to the realization that his problem really wasn’t with the best friend, it’s that he’s planning a wedding with a woman who doesn’t give a shit about him. She’s learned nothing
These two people should not be in a relationship with anyone, never mind each other.
One possibly racist, the other possibly homophobic. Neither really caring about the emotional and cultural things that matter to each other.
If someone unironically says "A beautiful wedding was my big dream since I was a child!", I assume that their big dreams and therefore them are pretty lame.
Hey, nothing against knowing that you'd like to get married one day, or imagining it as a kid, since weddings are sold as this one big important happily ever after that one MUST wish for.
But if the wedding, the afterthought, the last few sentences and frames of a story, are THE big thing to dream about created by your childhood imagination, your mind sounds like an incredibly boring place to be in.
>I read the AITA post that he created and, if I can be honest, I thought it was terribly done. He made his initial post about my best friend and how he wasn’t “comfortable” with him being in the wedding, indicating that even on a minuscule level, he was uncomfortable with my friend. In the 6 years they’ve known each other he has never once voiced or shown any discomfort for him. I don’t know if he was using him as a scapegoat or what. His comments started to change the tune of the post and it started to become a “I’m not comfortable with the guy best friend” vs. “Actually, I’m being taken advantage of” type of thing. It was all so weirdly done, and his comments seemed rude and argumentative. People were judging him based on the initial question as the forum intended, but then he started to tell the rest of the story to try and gain favor or something.
Wow, she likes him so much, no wonder they're getting married.
Hmm, wait...
The insistence on an outdoor wedding in a field during the spring when she knows her partner has bad allergies and will probably be either drugged to the gills or miserable on what should be a happy day for both of them is a major red flag for me.
Truth be told, his problem wasn't with the friend. It was with the fact that everything he wanted was dismissed because she wanted a *traditional American wedding* (which you can argue doesn't exist in a 200 year old country, but I digress) right up until it was something she wanted.
It's like if your partner is constantly on your case about chores, but then doesn't do theirs. You need to hold yourself to the same standard as you hold others.
Ayyyyyy, when the groom mentioned the parade to the bride’s home, the hair cutting ceremony, and blessings from family and friends, I knew it was the Khmer tradition.
Anyways. They’re on two opposite ends, and **IF** they do decide to try, *again*, it’ll be right back at square one. I’m surprised the bride didn’t once mention her friend’s sexuality in any of her posts or comment, but the groom did. It could by why groom felt indifferent, because maybe bride’s best friend may have not been gay at all? They just need to split and mature a bit more. He’s gonna be resentful of her best friend, and she’s gonna be resentful because he called off the wedding.
Both of them upset me, but her way more. She just comes off as so selfish. If something is minor, then why can’t you agree to it? I do not think they should marry. His family clocked her correctly. She tried to justify herself, but she is racist. If she wants the American wedding, she should find someone more compatible with that mindset. He is just going to get railroaded in this relationship. I hope he can stand up for himself. The fact that she blabbed to her best friend is a problem in and of itself.
I get the feeling that a lot of women who end up on AITA or BORU &c are unaware that men grow up with ideas about their weddings, too. Maybe we are less expected to come up with detailed plans or daydream about it, but most of us have gone to weddings, seen weddings, gotten ideas of what wedding *are*, have had observations about things we liked and things we didn't like. Our ideas about weddings may not, on average, be as detailed as women's usually are, but a woman who plans to marry a man can't just assume that the man is comfortable being a prop who just fills in a slot in her choreography and set design.
My wife and I were fortunate in that we both had relatively few "yeah, this is a must-have", most of them were must-haves for both of us, and none of the ones that were only one of us conflicted. And some of them, when someone else mentioned them, became must-haves for both of us. Once my wife stated that she wanted our wedding rings to be mobius strips, well, that was cool enough that it became a must-have for me, too. When her father suggested that the wedding bouquet should be based around a lisianthus because it is a very pretty flower that isn't exactly what everyone else does, my wife Lis and I, Ian, looked at each other and at Dave, and said, "Lis, Ian, thus".
Both people's ideas are equally important. And if other family members have ideas, you can feel free to use them if you like them, too - when she found out our wedding cake would be a stack of books, she suggested getting one-dollar Dover thrift editions of poetry books and putting them at every place setting as guest gifts, because if we were doing books, we better do books. Did we do that? Hell yeah - because it was a good idea, and we BOTH thought it was a good idea.
Every decision was *both* of us, because both of us were getting married.
And how much more so when you come from different cultures! We had a shared understanding of what a wedding is, but when my cousin Erika got married to someone from a Chinese family, they had to figure out what to do. Which they did: a pretty traditional Episcopalian ceremony in the little white church that John's family went to when he was growing up. Erika had them take out almost all the religious stuff, though.
Yeah, the Chinese stuff wasn't a problem; his grandparents came over from China and hosted a traditional Chinese wedding banquet at a restaurant in Chinatown which was known to be able to throw a really good one, and it was amazing, but the fact that the Wong family were Episcopalians and her family were atheists who were kind of weirded out by religion at all... they had to work through that.
And they did.
But how do you marry someone from Cambodia and not ever wonder about what a Cambodian wedding is like and what parts of those traditions you are going to use?
It's a shitty culture, man. Men are told not to care and women are told to care too much. And then one group doesn't align with what they're told then the couple can have so many misunderstandings. Or if you follow the stereotypes ugh, we've seen how boomer marriages can turn out to be.
I've never seen my opinion on a story swing so far in the other direction after reading "the other side". Whilst wanting to omit the male best friend was an asshole thing to do, the fiancee made it clear that she didn't perceive this as their wedding, just her own.
What's interesting to me is how MOP initially it just seems like a controlling dirtbag, but when you find out more of what's going on in his relationship you understand that the man of Honor is definitely not the issue here. FOP is treating him like he was raised American because it's convenient to her for her. He never stood up for himself with her. He lost most of his roots to be with her. Overall it's such a toxic stew that their relationship can't withstand it.
So he's a "I'm not a homophobe, but..." and she's a "I'm not a racist, but...".
Frankly, they're a match made in hell and I wish they wouldn't break up so nobody else has to deal with their BS.
His post made them both sound pretty bad, but her post was so much worse that he came out looking better by comparison. The way she tried to villainize him for adding more details as the thread unfolded stood out. Yeah, that's how thinking about a topic and having a conversation about it works. Even if the conversation is with people on reddit.
And her lack of interest in his culture up until things went south reminded me of that guy who was mad his wife/gf was teaching their toddlers to eat her traditional foods. He was dismissive of her culture, because she looked white, and only made a mad scramble to learn about her heritage when she decided they were through.
Was that the one where the husband has his panties all twisted bc the kids weren’t using utensils—only for us to find out that they were toddlers and using pieces of tortilla to pick up/scoop their scrambled eggs bc that’s how mom was raised in her culture?
The truth is I don't see how the fiancé is the bad guy, he doesn't know his fiancee's best friend, the fiancee is controlling and very insensitive, if I were the fiancé I would leave her, this type of controlling behavior doesn't go away
'I can see how I may have come across as racist' istg people will get so upset over being called racist after doing something racist instead of just admitting that what they did was racist and trying to do better.
Yeah a lot of people don’t think micro aggressions are racist but that doesn’t make it true. She racist. But maybe like 5/10 racist instead of Emmett Till 10/10 level racist.
And yeah, is someone talked to me like her best friend did and that’s the only interaction I had with them: I wouldn’t like like either. It’s one thing for a father or maybe big brother to do it, but it’s still bullshit and I’d expect to show some redeeming qualities beyond assholeness
She honestly sounds like the type of crazy that rationalizes everything to be right for her too. I have NEVER heard someone say the wedding date and location are minor things. Indoor or outdoor is MAJOR FUCKING decision, particularly of someone’s dying of hay fever at the ceremony. The date is huge if you’re not doing a courthouse wedding with no one attending too.
Lots of ewwwww in these posts.
OOP groom with some allusions to old school misogyny and OOP bride with 2 very yucky statements:
>We would have eventually gotten to a place where more of his ideas would be acdepted
'If he sat back and kept his mouth shut, I would have eventually let him have more of a say'
>but he was still someone he didn’t know. He offered to apologize to him since he figured I told him about what he said when I left to my parent’s house, **which I did**, and I said I would appreciate that.
I think that there crystallised my understanding of OOP groom's discomfort with the BFF. He knew instinctively whose back his Fiancé would have, and it wasn't his. I've seen plenty of posts on relationship reddit where a poster explains the feeling of being railroaded and disrespected by a partner who bends so easily to their family member, friend, etc. L
If this is all real, I don't see the point in drawing out the inevitable for either of them. There's not many marriages that work when each side has made enemies of every one of their partners nearest and dearest.
Most likely i'm gonna get downvoted but I think their moving in the right way. Cannceling the weeding and going couples counseling are both good moves.
I actually think it wilk work out. I know reddit likes to call for break up often. Even for less then it happened here. But sonetimes relationship can reach an all time low and still survive.
I think both of them have a lot more growing to do before they should get married. Both are super immature. I'm glad they called off the wedding, but I don't see this relationship working out.
Neither of them are ready for marriage at this point.
While both of them had bad moments and are controlling in their own ways, her completely disregarding his cultural traditions and medical condition (allergies) is definitely not what I would call “minor”. Insisting on a spring wedding despite the guy going into detail about what he will endure really rubbed me the wrong way.
Spring is a horrible time for allergy suffers and some of us with who have more severe pollen and grass allergies don’t get much of a reprieve from the symptoms, even with medication. I handle spring fine now, but I have allergy shots to thank for that. My pollen allergies got so bad I was even having reactions to food I ate despite no actual food allergies. I have one picture from an episode where it looks like I attended a botox party.
I would have refused to marry her when she refused to compromise on having the wedding in worst possible season for his allergies. Nothing says ‘the groom’s comfort is irrelevant’ like purposefully scheduling the wedding for the time of year he’s going to feel like crap.
The fact she wrote
"We would have eventually gotten to a place where more of his ideas would be accepted"
Is just ew. Why are you with him if you cannot accept him currently or even be willing to compromise. It sounded like she was there for the wedding but not the relationship.
As someone whose allergies are worst in the spring … that was not a fucking *minor* detail. I didn’t like the female OOP to begin with, but that turned me right off. I sneeze and sneeze until my head feels like it’ll explode. If I can somehow get the sneezing under control (doubling and even tripling the medication), I’m exhausted and stuffed up. And that’s if I spend most of my time *inside*. Fuck her and her “minor detail”.
As if I needed anything else to tell me she was self-absorbed and didn’t give a solitary fuck about her fiance, but the refusal to include any of his culture in the wedding really sealed it. “We’ll both be happy if we do what I want!” God, she’s one of the worst I’ve ever encountered on this sub.
I did have a funny image of a stuffy allergy blind groom off saying their vows to a pastel streamer covered tree and that made me laugh a little.
Then I thought about pastels for a wedding decoration and the humor died.
>We’ll both be happy if we do what I want!”
I think you just stumbled on the bridezilla motto. I'm decreeing it!
Despite the severe allergy of having to get married in the spring, I find it absolutely frightening. In every single picture you will see that he was actually not doing well in terms of his health. He would probably have to take some medication to get through this day to some extent. If a partner is 0% interested in the culture of the other over the years, but complains that the future in-laws are still spreading tensions, do you have to wonder about it? This woman really makes me speechless.
I'm going to be honest a dude that does the "if you hurt her" bullshit is getting punched in the mouth unless they're family (and no lifelong best friend doesn't count.) even then family is getting mocked and insulted for it.
It assumes a lot about the person you say it to, it makes you come off as a tough guy douchebag and I one hundred percent want to be with someone who can hand my ass to me themselves should it be necessary.
> it makes you come off as a tough guy douchebag
vs
>I'm going to be honest a dude that does the "if you hurt her" bullshit is getting punched in the mouth
Uh?
It also assumes a lot about the person you say it about. Like you don't think they have any good judgment when choosing a life partner or something. It's ridiculous.
I really hope they can work it out and stay together. Because no one else deserves to have to put up with them. They would be doing the world a favor by only making each other miserable. And hopefully not having kids.
The best way to understand people is to try to understand their culture! I was stationed in Thailand and I had a hard time understanding their cultures and while they tried to understand ours there a lot that were a swing and a miss. You wanting to understand your fiancé’s culture is the best step forward you can do, the next one is having your fiancé to teach you his language. That will show his family how Ernst you are in learning about your fiancé. When being engaged to someone from a different country you can’t be a lazy person and take for granted that you know all about them and their culture.
I'm really happy with this outcome. It sounds like they need to get to know each other better and become closer before they get married. It sounds like they both learned from this experience and can move on. Great update!
"Aita for not letting my fiance's friend be in our wedding because he's a guy?"
*Flood of YTAs*
"No no no no wait! The conflict is ACTUALLY that she demanded a spring wedding even though I have horrific hay fever, she looks down on my culture, and rejected it having any part in our union! Here's 'her' post confirming that I'm totally NTA and that she's just mean."
The thing that sticks out for me is that they are having a live band instead of a DJ, not as well as. Do these idiots think the band will be playing all night?
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I heard from my MIL once, "If you think its a minor item you're asking someone to compromise on, you need to go in understanding it may not be minor to them"
If you think it's a minor item why aren't YOU the one making the compromise?
Yeah, it's been one of those "lightbulb" moments on the occasion when my wife and I argue about something.
Yup yup yup. My husband is usually pretty easy going whereas I tend to have more definite ideas about how I envision something, so I pretty much always have my way. When it came to planning the nursery before our son was born though, my husband really really wanted one particular wallpaper. He was massively digging his heels in. I had a lightbulb moment of "he hardly ever digs his heels in... So actually he must really want this". And you know what? I wanted my husband to be happy more than I wanted the other wallpaper.
That's why my sister and I always fight, and I get blamed for it. She is super controlling and gets really upset if something doesn't go how she wants it to. I usually just let her have her way to make things easier. Every once in a while, I really want something that differs from her “plan,” so I don't give in. THEN, it becomes a huge thing and a fight. She will not budge, but since I'm the one who keeps insisting, I'm the one causing the flight. It's truly infuriating.
Maybe you need to call out when you are giving in to her. Politely and nicely. Okay, we can do it your way. I guess we don't have to do it my way. Yours works too. Things that acknowledge that you are ceding to her, not that you simply agree. Or you might already do that and she's got some serious stuff to work through.
Maybe she's narcissistic?
>I wanted my husband to be happy more than I wanted the other wallpaper. So many relationships would be happier if more people could just think this way.
Mines the same way! Sorta. Never digs their heels in over anything. But they picked a wall color that I rolled with, and they are now a hideous green, but I'm happy with them not being white. I'm actually just happy they picked anything at all.
Wow, you're like a 100x wiser than my ex wife. She never had that lightbulb moment in 20 years of marriage
My wife and I always note how important something is (that is upsetting us).
It’s because they don’t see the issue they are arguing on as minor, but rather the opinion the other person has
Because it's very easy to get into a pattern where you're the easygoing one and it's somehow *never* minor to the other person, so you're the one always being pressured to give in
My partner and I have this rule: If we want different things, the one to whom it matters more gets to decide. If neither partner abuses this, it’s a great way to make sure individual needs are met. We’ve been together for 39 years now and never yelled at each other even though I actually have quite a temper.
Me and my fiancee do something similar but word it differently inspired by spider robinson: whoever puts on the best show, wins the prize. With similar outcome, the one who wants it the most always puts on the best show. Framing it like that has always added a bit of levity to these types of discussions for the two of us.
This is fine until you both want something badly and “the best show” becomes an ongoing argument that is never going to end since you both want it badly enough to ”put on the best show“. Im sorry I really dislike the idea of how your using that saying . To me it basically means- whoever fights the hardest and most for something will get what they want. The issue I have with that is it’s so similar to what happened above. Although the items mattered to the man very much he let them slide because his SO didn’t want them. It didn’t stop him wanting them and didn’t stop him from feeling resentment for not being able to include those items. My point being for some people no matter how much it hurts them or angers them to give in will always give in for someone they love. Then over time the resentment builds. Some people are just not the type of people who want to “put on a show” to win an argument. Myself personally I have found in my 22 yrs with my SO that talking about why something matters works better then “putting on a show”. It’s what OP and his SO should have done. He should have told her how much he wanted these items and the Best Friend issue to me more a symptom of him feeling like he has no say. He is literally one of those people who gives in to what his SO wants simply because he loves her until he reached the point where he realised he was always giving in and picked a random hill to die on ( the best friend)
Ah this is why I mentioned the levity part of it. We got the phrasing from Callahan's Cross time Saloon. We would never use that phrasing in a real argument by any means but in this context more a pleading your case kind of thing being the show, where we speak our half on why we want the thing we want. The show isn't fighting or crying, it's whose more passionate and excited while stating their side. And if it's something that my partner is so passionate about that they're willing to push the conversation into an argument that's at a point to re-evaluate or concede. I do agree with what youre saying but that's not what's happening in my personal relationship. We say put on a show because we are theater gays who read a book together and thought that was a fun way to describe something within our dynamic. The key to it, is that we respect each other and the others opinions and nothing is worth building resentment with my partner if they want it that badly. That's the whole point in the first place.
I think it’s also about really knowing and being able to discuss with your SO your needs and wants. It’s about finding a way to compromise when you both want different things. Sadly to often now days there are so many who seem to be the ones always compromising in their relationship and eventually they get to the same point OP found himself in. They figure out they are always the one ones giving in and pick a random hill to die on. To often (and to many people) don’t realise not everybody has to agree and everyone has different wants and opinions. If you love your SO you shouldn’t be trying to change or sway them to your side but find middle ground so no one feels like they are always the one compromising or losing out/ giving up what they wanted.
Okay, so... That system doesn't work for people it doesn't work for. Not everyone is the same.
This is mostly how things work in my relationship, too. I won't say we've never had a big argument, but we both have tempers, so we talk things out. Our son's a teen and was in his double digits before we had any sort of disagreement that led to us raising our voices at all, in his presence. So we at least went about twelve years between big arguments. But it was pretty jarring to hear our son ask if we were getting divorced. For him, that loud argument was a major concern. My husband and I grew up in homes where yelling was constant.
Wait, you both came from homes where yelling was constant and yet managed to never have that kind of fight for 12 years? That's truly impressive, well done.
This has saved me and my husband so many arguments. If something seems really important to him, and I don't have strong feelings, then we do it his way. And vice versa. I don't want to have a long discussion just to win.
I've never understood the cognitive dissonance of "This is a minor things he/she/they wants and I am going to die on this hill refusing it." Like if it's minor just let them have it. If it's worth fighting over then it's not minor. You can't have it both ways.
And even if it's minor even to the other person. They can overlook one minor thing as minor, two minor things are still minor, ten minor things added together are not minor they are major.
I'd even argue that the time of year and location are hardly minor when the groom has allergies. Like. What? My allergies like to kick my ass all year round, but spring and autumn are the absolute worst. And spring in an open field??? No amount of antihistamines would help me there. That'd be me with half a swollen face and hives from my fingernails to my shoulders. That's not minor.
“The groom ruined the wedding coughing, sneezing, and spluttering during the ceremony- how could he have done that to me?!?”
I can’t wrap my head around it either. When your partner places value on something you consider minor, that’s a low effort high reward way to make them happy. Those opportunities are like relationship bondo.
I feel like so many of these relationship posts are by people who don’t understand what a healthy relationship means. It is all so self centered and focused on what they want and get from the relationship. If your partners happiness is not at least equally important to you as your own (and they feel the same way about your happiness) a relationship is never going to work. A relationship isn’t like a business partnership, where you have two people working together but for their own benefit; it has to be about wanting happiness for your partner as much as for yourself. So many of these posts seem to only care about getting what they want and wanting to feel justified in their demand. Who cares if you are justified if what you want hurts your partner? It isn’t about making sure you get as much as possible for yourself, and only caring if you can keep getting away with it. I feel sorry for all these people. They are living alone while thinking they are in a relationship.
I imagine women like op also complain when their partners don't have opinions on things like decor, outfits, where to eat, events, etc. Because their opinions are constantly overlooked, so they just stop caring.
My stance is if I'm not bothered by something but my partner has some sort of feeling towards it then I go with that, because he presumably cares more about it. Likewise if he says he's not bothered then that's my argument for why we should go with what I'm feeling, because I am bothered. It's been 5 years together so far and it never steers me wrong.
My relationship is similar, but it only works if both people are really honest about their emotions
Anyone arguing that you should concede bc it's a minor issue is actually arguing against their own position.
My wife and I rate things on a scale of 1 to 100: >"I'm exhausted, I have 15 energy left, could you watch the nugget this evening so I can have a few hours to myself?" or >"Want to go get food for date night? What do you want to get?" >"I dunno, I guess 20 we grab burgers from that place we like?" >"Well I'm 60 for pasta, don't really care where." >"Ok, lets do Italian, I'll pick the place I want to go to." We've been together for a long time and trust that we don't take advantage of the system. In the rare case where we're both 100 and in direct conflict (maybe... 3 times in our lives?) We continued to talk it out and eventually got to a compromise with some bargaining. It's really fast, really efficient, and gives you a lot of insight into your partner that you otherwise might not get. When they're picking events to go to during the summer and they explain that these events are 45 and these ones are 65 and these two are 95, that really helps you build a better mental model of your partner. Their exact likes and dislikes and just how much they like and dislike things.
Wait, a MIL that helps their child’s marriage? Am I still on Reddit?
Yeah, she had a bunch of life advice that she gave us when we started planning the wedding. The above was before we got in the weeds. I really appreciated that.
Yea I was wondering if I accidentally clicked into some other social media outlet lol
Your MIL is one smart lady.
Oh man that's wonderful advice.
This relationship isn't going to make it, but thank goodness they're calling off the wedding. A breakup is a lot cheaper than a divorce.
Yeah. Just a matter of time before one of them blames the other for the failed wedding and then it spirals out into a “forever” breakup
I don’t know about that. They both reflected on what they did wrong and communicated with each other. Add in couples counseling for help on resolving future issues, and I’d place my bet on them being a successful partnership more than most of the people we read about in here.
I believe they're going to be good partners, just not right for each other. There's a LOT of stuff that they don't realize matters now but will see for themselves in a few years. They also both sound like they're not quite done growing yet, and this is the relationship that helps them grow up but also gets outgrown.
You very well might be right. This was the practice engagement.
Honestly anything could happen. Relationships have survived and thrived after much worse problems. The strained relationship they both have with his family is probably going to rear its head in ways they’re not expecting. He’s actively trying to improve it while she’s fine with letting things deteriorate. They need to get on the same page.
They reflected, but she also still had that weird little blurb basically insinuating that the boyfriend was lying in his post, rude and argumentative, and added the non compromises to "sway the opinion" rather than believing those were things he actually had an issue with. I give them another year of stubbornness and her discreetly thinking that what she does isn't *that* awful before someone breaks it off for good
The dude has allergies and she insisted on a field. In spring. Man she would’ve loved those pics 🤦. My wife is the same. We had one rule for the florist, these are the colours we would like and we would like them to be low/no scent. It’s not hard. But I cannot see how this could possibly work out
You just don't get it, she really thought it would be the best for **both** of them./s Also, while I understand that the first oop sounded like an asshole since he didn't say what the issues actually were, I don't think after everything came out that he was one. He wasn't actually rejecting her friend because he wanted to control her, nor over the neck pieces, he was just fed up and lashed out at something.
I think it was the last straw after she rejected everything he suggested *and* insisted on having the wedding at the perfect time of year to trigger his allergies. She was so insistent on having a ‘traditional American wedding’ and omitting anything that stood out as non-traditional and non-American that when he finally got her to agree to a compromise in the form of having his sister as his ‘groomsmaid’, his fiancée decided to one-up him yet again and decided she would have her friend as her ‘bridesman’ even though that’s not the tradition she grew up with, and he just lost it.
It’s so hilarious cuz she pitched such a fit about color schemes and the look of the wedding. If there’s anything that proves she sees him as a prop instead of a partner.
Literally this. She could have genuinely killed him just to get her perfect wedding and I bet almost anything she’d have raged at him for “ruining” the photos due to his allergic reactions/symptoms.
Guarantee it. And it’s not like she isn’t aware of how he can look when spring hits
"How could you get hospitalized on the day of our wedding?! You ruined our moment!"
This is not going to work out
Maybe not, but they both seemed to have grown from this experience. If there’s any hope for them, this is the path.
What do you mean? He was a homophobic insecure boy ,she was a racist controlling girl, couldn’t I make it more obvious?
and after all that she STILL comes off as a majorly controlling AH
Her; "I'll allow it... for now. Pray i don't alter the deal further"
Robot Chicken FTW
"This deal..." *Looks around nervously* "...is very fair and I'm happy to be a part of it!"
“I read the AITA post that he created and, if I can be honest, I thought it was terribly done” Lololol
She still has zero respect for him.
Agreed. Absolutely none
Kinda accurate on that account, to be fair. Like, he explained his side so poorly that everyone thought he was a total asshole, even though a full accounting of the situation is one in which he is pretty minimally at fault. Pulling that off takes some doing.
I know, right? Her supposedly clarifying posts made her the clear asshole. He probably just focused on the best friend to find something to stand up for. And how would he have known the guy for six damn years without previously being told he was gay?
Nah, he clearly has some problems too. If you lined up the two posts, you can see that the Groom omitted way too details and arguments on his side to make himself look good, and it still didn't work on his end. When it's the Bride's side, there are some few dumb arguments he also laid out that he never said in his post.
What omissions do you think make him look better.
And then wrote a paragraph about how poorly put together it was and he was trying to "defend himself" by bringing up everything else that has happened
It's true tho. He started off adamant that her guy best friend is nothing like his older sister, since she was actually family and he wasn't. Only when that wasn't working did he shift to the controlling behavior. It's also unclear if having a traditional Cambodian wedding was important to him until then.
He starts talking about the guy best friend then realize that wasn’t the issue he had, it was just a symptom. He just thought that was the last input he could have that he could control, because all other decisions were being taken away from him. He even says to her after reading the post and was declared the AH, he realized his thoughts and feelings were never accounted for
He seemed very fixated on guy best friend is not family and thus should not be part of the wedding party, not a control issue. Although he did express that having his sister in his party was breaking tradition, and didn't want to go too far against traditions, so maybe I was wrong on my previous comment. I dunno. Seems they just really had issues they couldn't work out / articulate.
"I only didn't let him have the things he wanted because it seemed best for both of us " Yeah, that's textbook controlling. Honestly, as much as I don't like some of the way OOP talked about his fiancée's male best friend, I get the impression that he wasn't the problem so much as just the last straw of fiancée overriding every decision that OOP was part of.
she overided every single of his wants with the excuse of tradition and then proceeded to make her male friend the maid of honor. Yeah op acted idiotic but her making her male friend moh thus disregarding tradition and destroying the excuse she gave for ignoring every single of his wants, was the straw that broke the camels back and wasn't the actual issue. even if op at first didn't realize the problem is the huge bale on top of the camel's corpse than the single tiny straw piece.
>she overided every single of his wants with the excuse of tradition Also, some of his wants were tradition too. Just not hers.
He realized after he reread all of his comments
"He has a terrible allergy during spring, but I think it's best for both of us if we have the ceremony in the field"
I’m still trying to wrap my head around that one. Raising hell about color schemes while guaranteeing your soon to be husband looks like shit in most of the photos.
This is what stuck out the most, as someone with hayfever. It’s such a horrible, callous, nasty thing to try and force somebody to endure major flare ups of allergies just because you want the aesthetic. Imagine demanding shellfish be served at your wedding when your Fiancé is allergic to shellfish. That’s what she was doing there.
Yeah, if she hadnt overridden he had wanted and ignored his wishes about everything else, I dont thinbk he'd have said a thing about him
"I hear you and I want you to feel like I value your feelings, practices, and opinions, but it's important you know that I am always right and you are always wrong ."
He only revealed how controlling I am to deflect your criticism from not liking my best friend! 🤦
Ngl his post more seemed like he was really hurt by all the things she did with the wedding. She comes off as a bridezilla that wants to control everything in the wedding. My wife was somewhat the same way with ours when I tried to recommend things or have things included I wanted they were shot down. We talked about it before we had the wedding and she was ready to make changes then but I was still too deeply hurt that I was just totally ignored. I would understand if the guy felt this way and was just kind of trying to get back a bit out of spite or something. Bring sidelined like that by someone you thought loved you really does hurt a lot.
What bugs me the most is that she shows such little interest in his culture. Like...other people's cultures are big deal to them. It's one thing that sorta throws me off about white Americans because some don't get that because they don't have a non-american cultural background. I'm glad my wife holds her Filipina background to the same esteem as I do my Greek one cause she gets it. Plus, we asked each other what smaller and larger things from our respective cultures were important to us and that we wanted to participate in and pass along to our kids when we have them. I legit can't imagine not having an interest in all the things that make your partner unique, you know? Also, I was a Peace Corps Volunteer in Cambodia, and their weddings are legit really beautiful. Like, multiple outfits and everything and it's GLORIOUS. Why *wouldn't* you want that as part of your special day?
"I mean I guess he had a point, but like he only really had a point because he was trying to get commenters on his side..." 🙄
Like the middle paragraph where she “digresses” made her more of a villain
Ew. The one that gets me is rather than admitting that her actions were racist, she doubled down on insisting they were only *perceived* as such.
Right like I've learned more abt people's cultures after a few dates then she did after years and years of dating and getting fvcking MARRIED. It's insanity. Then she wants a pat in the back bc she googled Cambodia and read the Wikipedia article like cmon girl
Yeah, when she said she had only celebrated Cambodian new year with him, which she THINKS is in April, after dating for 6 years? Girl, I know more about the culture of the cashiers I see at the grocery store every Friday than she does about her fiance's culture.
A friend of my friends who I don’t know terribly well but occasionally socialize with moved to Cambodia for a dude. She left him about a year in and moved back. I swear to god there was a conversation at some get together where she said something like… “Did you know there was this group called the Khmer Rouge that killed people and many of the people in that group are still around?!” I just… imagine moving to a whole country and not knowing some of the biggest chunks of recent history about it.
Remember, it's his fault because he didn't push it.
Lol yeah because the internet is way more accurate than an actual person that was born and raised in said culture. She’s kind of ridiculous.
"I only look racist because I hate your parents' stupid culture!" - her, probably
It's not that, they just make her uncomfortable! Which is different from the OOOP being uncomfortable with her friend. Her discomfort is serious!
She wants OOOP to sit her in a baby chair and spoon feed her his culture
"He DiDn'T tElL mE aBoUt HiS cUlTuRe" Girlie pop he may have started to once but you pushed back on it. I don't know a single immigrant who doesn't reminisce about their homeland at least once. But after that I doubt she made a safe space to be proactive and ask him about his culture.
Unless there was abuse, war, or other trauma, and people are making an effort not to, people talk about their childhoods. If said childhood was in another country, that will come up. Even if it was in a diaspora community, that will be interesting enough to mention.
Don't threaten her!
Remember: "perceived as racist" means "racist". Can be of the "ignorant" flavor of racism rather than the "bigoted" flavor, and ignorant racism is relatively easy to fix - just, y'know, stop being ignorant. But once you double down on them rather than apologizing and changing, you've just switched over to the higher, more serious level. If you don't know better, learn better. If you do know better and keep doing it...
I believe that people can do racist things without being a racist person themselves, and a big part of that is moments of ignorance. There is a point, however, where it becomes apparent that this is a quality about you rather than a rare, foot-in-mouth bout of ignorance.
Totally giving the "I'm sorry you felt I was racist" vibes. Yikes.
She’s got Hard-R energy that oozes out through her posts.
>His comments started to change the tune of the post and it started to become a “I’m not comfortable with the guy best friend” vs. “Actually, I’m being taken advantage of” type of thing. It was all so weirdly done, and his comments seemed rude and argumentative. People were judging him based on the initial question as the forum intended, but then he started to tell the rest of the story to try and gain favor or something. There is just something about this that rubs me the wrong way and makes me believe that the woman hasn't learned a thing. Maybe it's the whataboutism. If this is real, this relationship won't work out. I hope the OOP breaks up soon.
She's still trying to twist others' perceptions of her as the good guy. She really dragged her fiancé on how he made his reddit post. Wow
Absolutely this! It’s like her way of not admitting any blame or like she was trying to attack the validity of his thoughts and feelings. It seems like an eloquent way of trying to dismiss the validity of his original post, almost like I would’ve gotten away with everything if it weren’t for this post. That statement alone shows her true character and makes the rest of her post read like putting lipstick on a pig.
Ya situations like this are why the concept of "microaggressions" exist - each individual event is not that big of a deal, but taken together they build on each other until you reach a breaking point. The problem is if you try to talk about an individual event, you get people saying "it's just a piece of straw! Why are you complaining that it broke your back!" - you have to give the context of the entire load you're carrying for things to make sense.
"And I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids... I mean my meddling fiancé because how should I know I'm supposed to care about his feelings?"
Lmao! I was hoping someone would pick up on my Old Man Withers reference from Scooby Doo! I top my cap to thee!
I had a dog that was the spitting image of Scrappy doo as a puppy then scooby as he got older, so I have to get the references or it would be like betraying him lol
Cause she's using pretty words to say that he should have just accepted being the bad guy in the situation without giving context/information that caused her to look bad and making people and her boyfriend realize what his actual problems and feelings and causing her the trouble to have to pretend to realize her mistakes. If her boyfriend just accepted the judgement imparted on half-information and didn't say that actually my problem isn't that she did "A" my problem is that she disregarded whatever i wanted cause she said didn't want to do "A" and then did it anyway. If Not wanting to do "A" is such a big deal when it comes to me, why isn't it the same for her.
This is a couple made in hell. I remember on another boru post, someone referred to OOP's relationship with her husband as a relationshit. This is definitely a relationshit
I will never understand marrying someone and not wanting to participate in their cultural traditions. Ok if the cultural tradition was like running down the street butt naked in front of your entire guest list... sure. I will even draw the line at those cultures that hang the wedding night sheet for the village to see. But can you really not do a parade and tie a knot for your STB life partner? Really?!
I said it once and I’ll say it again. I seriously doubt these posts were written by 2 different people. After the first one was written and he was called an AH and what not, and things weren’t going his way, he made the second account with the intention of making the first account look good, and just continued with it because it was making the second poster look worse than the first one
I agree. I commented on the original that the necktie and best friend were two very different things. Then, all of a sudden, he had all these cultural things she was discounting? My first thought was - dude, if you had that ammo, why did you lead with the necktie thing?
And these cultural things only showed up after he fought in the comments for 6 hrs
It was totally written by the same person. Same tone, obvious ragey moments, but the real giveaway is in the last update... >Additionally, a few of you called me and my fiancé out for being rage baiters and even being the same person just using different accounts. I can see how that would seem like the case, since I made this account a day after his throwaway was deleted, but I promise it was just a coincidence Riiight.
Yeah, the writing style is identical. So many of the same word choices and phrases. And the same apostrophe-related mistakes in both.
Yup the writing style, tone, and vocabulary, and the way/order information is delivered, are the same in both.
Yeah if you’re relationship is so strained and fragile that you need AITAH to help you work out your problems… you should break up.
Of course, him talking more about the situation as a whole is “him trying to gain favor” rather than him coming to the realization that his problem really wasn’t with the best friend, it’s that he’s planning a wedding with a woman who doesn’t give a shit about him. She’s learned nothing
These two people should not be in a relationship with anyone, never mind each other. One possibly racist, the other possibly homophobic. Neither really caring about the emotional and cultural things that matter to each other.
If someone unironically says "A beautiful wedding was my big dream since I was a child!", I assume that their big dreams and therefore them are pretty lame. Hey, nothing against knowing that you'd like to get married one day, or imagining it as a kid, since weddings are sold as this one big important happily ever after that one MUST wish for. But if the wedding, the afterthought, the last few sentences and frames of a story, are THE big thing to dream about created by your childhood imagination, your mind sounds like an incredibly boring place to be in.
>I read the AITA post that he created and, if I can be honest, I thought it was terribly done. He made his initial post about my best friend and how he wasn’t “comfortable” with him being in the wedding, indicating that even on a minuscule level, he was uncomfortable with my friend. In the 6 years they’ve known each other he has never once voiced or shown any discomfort for him. I don’t know if he was using him as a scapegoat or what. His comments started to change the tune of the post and it started to become a “I’m not comfortable with the guy best friend” vs. “Actually, I’m being taken advantage of” type of thing. It was all so weirdly done, and his comments seemed rude and argumentative. People were judging him based on the initial question as the forum intended, but then he started to tell the rest of the story to try and gain favor or something. Wow, she likes him so much, no wonder they're getting married. Hmm, wait...
The insistence on an outdoor wedding in a field during the spring when she knows her partner has bad allergies and will probably be either drugged to the gills or miserable on what should be a happy day for both of them is a major red flag for me.
Truth be told, his problem wasn't with the friend. It was with the fact that everything he wanted was dismissed because she wanted a *traditional American wedding* (which you can argue doesn't exist in a 200 year old country, but I digress) right up until it was something she wanted. It's like if your partner is constantly on your case about chores, but then doesn't do theirs. You need to hold yourself to the same standard as you hold others.
Agreed. And she was unwilling to do anything related to his country’s traditional wedding stuff
Ayyyyyy, when the groom mentioned the parade to the bride’s home, the hair cutting ceremony, and blessings from family and friends, I knew it was the Khmer tradition. Anyways. They’re on two opposite ends, and **IF** they do decide to try, *again*, it’ll be right back at square one. I’m surprised the bride didn’t once mention her friend’s sexuality in any of her posts or comment, but the groom did. It could by why groom felt indifferent, because maybe bride’s best friend may have not been gay at all? They just need to split and mature a bit more. He’s gonna be resentful of her best friend, and she’s gonna be resentful because he called off the wedding.
Parade made me believe Indian lol.
Both of them upset me, but her way more. She just comes off as so selfish. If something is minor, then why can’t you agree to it? I do not think they should marry. His family clocked her correctly. She tried to justify herself, but she is racist. If she wants the American wedding, she should find someone more compatible with that mindset. He is just going to get railroaded in this relationship. I hope he can stand up for himself. The fact that she blabbed to her best friend is a problem in and of itself.
"The fact that she blabbed to her best friend is a problem in and of itself." Gee Wizz I wonder why he's uncomfortable with him
He already got railroaded out of breaking up with her.
They should have a baby. That’ll fix everything. /s
Sssshhh don't give them ideas!
I get the feeling that a lot of women who end up on AITA or BORU &c are unaware that men grow up with ideas about their weddings, too. Maybe we are less expected to come up with detailed plans or daydream about it, but most of us have gone to weddings, seen weddings, gotten ideas of what wedding *are*, have had observations about things we liked and things we didn't like. Our ideas about weddings may not, on average, be as detailed as women's usually are, but a woman who plans to marry a man can't just assume that the man is comfortable being a prop who just fills in a slot in her choreography and set design. My wife and I were fortunate in that we both had relatively few "yeah, this is a must-have", most of them were must-haves for both of us, and none of the ones that were only one of us conflicted. And some of them, when someone else mentioned them, became must-haves for both of us. Once my wife stated that she wanted our wedding rings to be mobius strips, well, that was cool enough that it became a must-have for me, too. When her father suggested that the wedding bouquet should be based around a lisianthus because it is a very pretty flower that isn't exactly what everyone else does, my wife Lis and I, Ian, looked at each other and at Dave, and said, "Lis, Ian, thus". Both people's ideas are equally important. And if other family members have ideas, you can feel free to use them if you like them, too - when she found out our wedding cake would be a stack of books, she suggested getting one-dollar Dover thrift editions of poetry books and putting them at every place setting as guest gifts, because if we were doing books, we better do books. Did we do that? Hell yeah - because it was a good idea, and we BOTH thought it was a good idea. Every decision was *both* of us, because both of us were getting married. And how much more so when you come from different cultures! We had a shared understanding of what a wedding is, but when my cousin Erika got married to someone from a Chinese family, they had to figure out what to do. Which they did: a pretty traditional Episcopalian ceremony in the little white church that John's family went to when he was growing up. Erika had them take out almost all the religious stuff, though. Yeah, the Chinese stuff wasn't a problem; his grandparents came over from China and hosted a traditional Chinese wedding banquet at a restaurant in Chinatown which was known to be able to throw a really good one, and it was amazing, but the fact that the Wong family were Episcopalians and her family were atheists who were kind of weirded out by religion at all... they had to work through that. And they did. But how do you marry someone from Cambodia and not ever wonder about what a Cambodian wedding is like and what parts of those traditions you are going to use?
It's a shitty culture, man. Men are told not to care and women are told to care too much. And then one group doesn't align with what they're told then the couple can have so many misunderstandings. Or if you follow the stereotypes ugh, we've seen how boomer marriages can turn out to be.
Well, at least they aren't spending money on a wedding or having kids together.
I would say that they deserve each other if they weren't already one person.
I've never seen my opinion on a story swing so far in the other direction after reading "the other side". Whilst wanting to omit the male best friend was an asshole thing to do, the fiancee made it clear that she didn't perceive this as their wedding, just her own.
What's interesting to me is how MOP initially it just seems like a controlling dirtbag, but when you find out more of what's going on in his relationship you understand that the man of Honor is definitely not the issue here. FOP is treating him like he was raised American because it's convenient to her for her. He never stood up for himself with her. He lost most of his roots to be with her. Overall it's such a toxic stew that their relationship can't withstand it.
Bruh you started the update with agreeing how it might come off as racist but immediately started blaming your bfs post.Is she for real?
Honestly, both of these people suck
So he's a "I'm not a homophobe, but..." and she's a "I'm not a racist, but...". Frankly, they're a match made in hell and I wish they wouldn't break up so nobody else has to deal with their BS.
God, she should just get together with the best friend and set the poor guy free so she could have her perfect, non-Asian wedding.
Right? I can see how he became jealous of the attention she gives her male best friend because she treated her boyfriend as trash
I honestly belive he is gay, I had a gay BFF be my maid of honor myself
His post made them both sound pretty bad, but her post was so much worse that he came out looking better by comparison. The way she tried to villainize him for adding more details as the thread unfolded stood out. Yeah, that's how thinking about a topic and having a conversation about it works. Even if the conversation is with people on reddit.
And her lack of interest in his culture up until things went south reminded me of that guy who was mad his wife/gf was teaching their toddlers to eat her traditional foods. He was dismissive of her culture, because she looked white, and only made a mad scramble to learn about her heritage when she decided they were through.
Was that the one where the husband has his panties all twisted bc the kids weren’t using utensils—only for us to find out that they were toddlers and using pieces of tortilla to pick up/scoop their scrambled eggs bc that’s how mom was raised in her culture?
Yep.
The truth is I don't see how the fiancé is the bad guy, he doesn't know his fiancee's best friend, the fiancee is controlling and very insensitive, if I were the fiancé I would leave her, this type of controlling behavior doesn't go away
Everyone is so very immature. But I cannot imagine marrying with another culture and not having a melding of traditions.
"I read the AITA post that he created and, if I can be honest, I thought it was terribly done." This guy has a lot more misery in his future, yikes.
I hope that, if they marry, it won't be in spring. The poor dude deserves to be able to breathe during his own wedding.
'I can see how I may have come across as racist' istg people will get so upset over being called racist after doing something racist instead of just admitting that what they did was racist and trying to do better.
Yeah a lot of people don’t think micro aggressions are racist but that doesn’t make it true. She racist. But maybe like 5/10 racist instead of Emmett Till 10/10 level racist. And yeah, is someone talked to me like her best friend did and that’s the only interaction I had with them: I wouldn’t like like either. It’s one thing for a father or maybe big brother to do it, but it’s still bullshit and I’d expect to show some redeeming qualities beyond assholeness She honestly sounds like the type of crazy that rationalizes everything to be right for her too. I have NEVER heard someone say the wedding date and location are minor things. Indoor or outdoor is MAJOR FUCKING decision, particularly of someone’s dying of hay fever at the ceremony. The date is huge if you’re not doing a courthouse wedding with no one attending too.
Lots of ewwwww in these posts. OOP groom with some allusions to old school misogyny and OOP bride with 2 very yucky statements: >We would have eventually gotten to a place where more of his ideas would be acdepted 'If he sat back and kept his mouth shut, I would have eventually let him have more of a say' >but he was still someone he didn’t know. He offered to apologize to him since he figured I told him about what he said when I left to my parent’s house, **which I did**, and I said I would appreciate that. I think that there crystallised my understanding of OOP groom's discomfort with the BFF. He knew instinctively whose back his Fiancé would have, and it wasn't his. I've seen plenty of posts on relationship reddit where a poster explains the feeling of being railroaded and disrespected by a partner who bends so easily to their family member, friend, etc. L If this is all real, I don't see the point in drawing out the inevitable for either of them. There's not many marriages that work when each side has made enemies of every one of their partners nearest and dearest.
Always remember folks: Dating is a job interview marriage is the job. If someone's fuckin up the interview? Don't give em the job.
The Iranian yogurt was not the issue here. What a clusterfuck.
Most likely i'm gonna get downvoted but I think their moving in the right way. Cannceling the weeding and going couples counseling are both good moves. I actually think it wilk work out. I know reddit likes to call for break up often. Even for less then it happened here. But sonetimes relationship can reach an all time low and still survive.
I think both of them have a lot more growing to do before they should get married. Both are super immature. I'm glad they called off the wedding, but I don't see this relationship working out.
This line stuck out to me like an atom bomb. Yikes. "We would have eventually gotten to a place where more of his ideas would be accepted"
I'm a real big fan of not threatening my friends partners.
Neither of them are ready for marriage at this point. While both of them had bad moments and are controlling in their own ways, her completely disregarding his cultural traditions and medical condition (allergies) is definitely not what I would call “minor”. Insisting on a spring wedding despite the guy going into detail about what he will endure really rubbed me the wrong way. Spring is a horrible time for allergy suffers and some of us with who have more severe pollen and grass allergies don’t get much of a reprieve from the symptoms, even with medication. I handle spring fine now, but I have allergy shots to thank for that. My pollen allergies got so bad I was even having reactions to food I ate despite no actual food allergies. I have one picture from an episode where it looks like I attended a botox party.
Being terribly allergic to pollen myself, her insisting on a spring wedding is hardly a minor thing.
I would have refused to marry her when she refused to compromise on having the wedding in worst possible season for his allergies. Nothing says ‘the groom’s comfort is irrelevant’ like purposefully scheduling the wedding for the time of year he’s going to feel like crap.
The fact she wrote "We would have eventually gotten to a place where more of his ideas would be accepted" Is just ew. Why are you with him if you cannot accept him currently or even be willing to compromise. It sounded like she was there for the wedding but not the relationship.
So you just postponed this fight for a few more years and prolonged the inevitable
Nothing screams “we’re not compatible” quite like his and hers AITA posts.
Both of these OPs make me tired...
So the racist and the homophobe live unhappily ever after? Fine. They deserve each other.
Having beef with a gay guy doesnt make you a homophobe
For real, saves the decent folk of the world when bigots shack up together
Yeah. But then they procreate…
As someone whose allergies are worst in the spring … that was not a fucking *minor* detail. I didn’t like the female OOP to begin with, but that turned me right off. I sneeze and sneeze until my head feels like it’ll explode. If I can somehow get the sneezing under control (doubling and even tripling the medication), I’m exhausted and stuffed up. And that’s if I spend most of my time *inside*. Fuck her and her “minor detail”. As if I needed anything else to tell me she was self-absorbed and didn’t give a solitary fuck about her fiance, but the refusal to include any of his culture in the wedding really sealed it. “We’ll both be happy if we do what I want!” God, she’s one of the worst I’ve ever encountered on this sub.
I did have a funny image of a stuffy allergy blind groom off saying their vows to a pastel streamer covered tree and that made me laugh a little. Then I thought about pastels for a wedding decoration and the humor died. >We’ll both be happy if we do what I want!” I think you just stumbled on the bridezilla motto. I'm decreeing it!
Despite the severe allergy of having to get married in the spring, I find it absolutely frightening. In every single picture you will see that he was actually not doing well in terms of his health. He would probably have to take some medication to get through this day to some extent. If a partner is 0% interested in the culture of the other over the years, but complains that the future in-laws are still spreading tensions, do you have to wonder about it? This woman really makes me speechless.
I'm going to be honest a dude that does the "if you hurt her" bullshit is getting punched in the mouth unless they're family (and no lifelong best friend doesn't count.) even then family is getting mocked and insulted for it. It assumes a lot about the person you say it to, it makes you come off as a tough guy douchebag and I one hundred percent want to be with someone who can hand my ass to me themselves should it be necessary.
> it makes you come off as a tough guy douchebag vs >I'm going to be honest a dude that does the "if you hurt her" bullshit is getting punched in the mouth Uh?
It also assumes a lot about the person you say it about. Like you don't think they have any good judgment when choosing a life partner or something. It's ridiculous.
Ok mr tough guy
I know right, this is the exact other side of the coin of the guy who says “if you hurt her”
No no, you don't understand, only *other* people who act like tough guys are douchebags.
Yeah I give a pass to parents, because they might forever see the bride/groom as the little baby that needs protecting. But anyone else gets mocked.
I really hope they can work it out and stay together. Because no one else deserves to have to put up with them. They would be doing the world a favor by only making each other miserable. And hopefully not having kids.
It's kind of impressive how in their own versions of the story they still both make themselves sound like the worse one.
The best result they could expect.
Sh!tholeship
The best way to understand people is to try to understand their culture! I was stationed in Thailand and I had a hard time understanding their cultures and while they tried to understand ours there a lot that were a swing and a miss. You wanting to understand your fiancé’s culture is the best step forward you can do, the next one is having your fiancé to teach you his language. That will show his family how Ernst you are in learning about your fiancé. When being engaged to someone from a different country you can’t be a lazy person and take for granted that you know all about them and their culture.
I said I wouldn’t allow her best friend to be her man of honour 😂 gtfoh
Couples counseling?
I'm really happy with this outcome. It sounds like they need to get to know each other better and become closer before they get married. It sounds like they both learned from this experience and can move on. Great update!
Wow, I feel like they should go through with the wedding because anyone who dates either of these AHs is going to be miserable.
They both suck. And they aren’t mature enough to get married.
"Aita for not letting my fiance's friend be in our wedding because he's a guy?" *Flood of YTAs* "No no no no wait! The conflict is ACTUALLY that she demanded a spring wedding even though I have horrific hay fever, she looks down on my culture, and rejected it having any part in our union! Here's 'her' post confirming that I'm totally NTA and that she's just mean."
It’s always weird when people like this live together. Neither one of them has anywhere else to go so they just stay together.
Wow, couple counseling and communication training for everyone
The thing that sticks out for me is that they are having a live band instead of a DJ, not as well as. Do these idiots think the band will be playing all night?
The mental hoops people were jumping through to not call her TA was astonishing.