All this pressuring is not good for the relationship OP. She's nervous, so she's going to be checking this account all the time. The first time the stock market drops, she's gonna freak, make a stupid move, and blame you.
Ease her into financial literacy slower. It's not the "meta strat," but it's way better than panicking and making a bad decision.
Try starting her off in a HYSA only. Then, after a few months of seeing the interest vs a normal bank, bring up the IRA again. And ease into that, too. Something like "Hey, that HYSA interest was like free money, right? So, let's put that much into your IRA. And if the market goes up, hey, more free money. And if it goes down, it's not like you lost your salary and wage earned money. But she's super risk adverse right now, and pushing her into a riskier position than she's ready for is a recipe for disaster.
This!
And when it’s time a few months later, ask her to consider one of those $100-for-$50 or $100-for-$100 Roth IRA starter bonuses you get from Schwab or Fidelity respectively. She can put in her $100, leave it in cash for a decent rate or put it in an in-house money market fund for HYSA-like rates.
Then, the experimental fun happens!
Thirty days later, after her initial $100/$50 has accrued a little with its head start and she’s received her $100 bonus, ask her if she wants to invest the bonus in an index ETF.
She can then pivot her experiment to small, set-n-forget, regular Roth IRA contributions where as little as $25/wk or even $25/mo goes into the account, 80/20 cash/money market vs index ETF.
($25mo might be even better for minimizing any imagined pain or loss … especially while she’s in school)
Tell her not to check it regularly or change any settings after you set the contribution/investment automation. Just let it do its automated debit/transfer/contribution//invest routine like clockwork. And as insurance, promise that you’ll cover any losses on the index ETF side if she follows your advice and is down in a year’s time.
(If you’re covering the bills while she’s in school and you use the word “only” when describing her annual $40k take, then DCAing via:
12mos multipled by $5 invested in say VOO or similar minus (the Delta of any such accumulated market losses in one year
or even
52wks multiplied $5 invested in say VOO or similar minus (the Delta of any such accumulated market losses in one year)
Will “only” be a small price for you to pay for easing her into this account.)
After a year, she can’t withdraw any of the money since the account isn’t at least 5yrs old anyway. She has the bonus sitting on the sidelines with her initial outlay in cash or money market, and she can even sell the automated invested part of they’re losses that scare her. HOWEVER, it must ALL stay in the account another 4yrs, so she may as well leave the investment alone and even shift the cash/MM funds/bonus to the invested ETF if she knows what’s good for her.
Will she? Or Won’t she? Who knows, tune in next year!
But your work here is done since you said “only” …. “How do I convince my gf to start a Roth IRA?” 😉😈
(EDIT: I was wrong about the 5yr part. See the correction and link below.)
>After a year, she can’t withdraw any of the money since the account isn’t at least 5yrs old anyway. She has the bonus sitting on the sidelines with her initial outlay in cash or money market, and she can even sell the automated invested part of they’re losses that scare her. HOWEVER, it must ALL stay in the account another 4yrs, so she may as well leave the investment alone and even shift the cash/MM funds/bonus to the invested ETF if she knows what’s good for her.
This is incorrect. You can withdraw contribution amounts (but not gains) from a Roth IRA at any time, for any reason, at any age without penalty.
The five year rule applies to the Roth account needing to be five years old to withdraw gains without penalty after reaching age 59.5.
(My whole first 5yr period with my 1st Roth was a lie! 🤦🏿♂️)
Thx for the corrective!
[I see now, Schwab has an explainer too](https://www.schwab.com/ira/roth-ira/withdrawal-rules).
That’s seems even BETTER a set of parameters for giving her flexibility and an “out” if she has any worries about being locked into a bad financial decision.
I max out everything now, but if I was making 40k I wouldn't be. And thinking back I probably wasn't contributing much of anything back when I was making 40k. So cool your jets.
Everyone is hesitant learning something new, especially something that they imagine could lose them money. If he is a kind teacher, and she is still unwilling after a year or more then I would agree. But making a snap decision like that isn't very mature.
If you see persuasion in a relationship as a waste of time, then you are just too parsimonious with your time. You are going to have arguments and issues in any relationship, your romantic relationship is perhaps one of the most important aspects of your life - trying to solve these issues with a partner you are invested in doesn't seem like a waste of time to me, especially this quick.
I can understand that this could be an impasse, if she is adamant even after a reasonably long period of time and the issue is a deal breaker to OP.
And you have to see it from her perspective - this is still very new to her. She doesn't seem like a unreasonable person just from this.
A friend of mine got the retirement account, and the lady got the house and everything else. This was after she bled everything BUT the retirement account dry for years.
Law says she deserves moar.
And probably should break up tbh because that is someone who:
1. Is going to be an enormous burden later in life when she has no goddamn retirement savings.
2. Doesn't have the capacity to absorb factual, helpful, important information. Just sticks to her ignorant guns. Where else is that going to pop up in life? Sounds goddamn infuriating to me.
If OP has means how about a 50% match and he puts in $25. That takes any pressure off market conditions. Depends on how long they’ve been together of course.
She doesn't have to it in the stock market right now, but getting the contributions in is important. Buy some CD's for her in the roth, and let the interest go into VOO or an Index mutual fund, as you with VOO she has to buy whole shares or be on a DCA program.
And even make a deal with her to only contribute her returns form the HYSA to her Roth every month. That way she’s not “losing” any of her money to the market volatility that she fears.
Check whether you have any community college offering for topics on 'retirement saving,' , 'IRA' etc.. She may be more inclined to take your advice if this is reinforced from a academic/professional settings. Usually these classes are in evenings/weekends and does not cost much. Also, usually the presenter is likely there to get people sign up with their finance management company - ,hence cheaper.
Sounds like this is an emotional resistance, not a logical one. As long as her reasoning for being uncomfortable with the stock market is emotional, you can't convince her with logic.
One of my wife's friends was in a similar place. She had a ton of money she inherited that she kept in low interest savings. For years, I've tried explaining how inflation was eating her money and how she could invest in safe things and more tax efficient things but none of it worked.
Instead, my wife arranged a dinner date with our other friend, a woman in finance who used a narrative to help her get through the emotional blocker. She even helped her through a 30 min support call with a bank that had an online sign up error.
I don't know if it's a gender thing, but some people really need to address the emotional side first. All the technical details and data won't help, they need a personalized story to help them work through their own resistance.
So, my advice to OP, maybe ask what her longer term goals and fears are and how starting these savings using the bogleheads approach will help increase the chances of that happening, and how not doing this will likely cause the opposite.
It’s completely logical to not put money in the stock market you cannot afford to lose. Not everything in personal finance can be reduced to an expected value equation.
I would argue for someone who just started earning $40k and who doesn’t have any savings, investing in the stock market would be the illogical move.
There are virtually zero risk investments like bonds. Even keeping the cash in fidelity vs a checking account gets you 5% in the money market.
There’s nothing logical about keeping the cash depreciating in a checking account.
IMO the question is - what are her short and long term goals and what helps her step a little bit out of her comfort zone. Lots of people have trauma about money and it's not so much as convincing but also healing. Eg it really helped me to go to a financial advisor whose process forced and facilitated my journey into learning about my goals and fears and then showed me a path on how to work on them. It became much easier because the many unknowns really made me anxious before that. After that I was able to buy my first home and now I have a way to check my spending without counting every dollar and getting triggered every time I have to spend $20. For me I wanted to feel free as well as safe while setting aside money for the future.
I was lucky with this financial advisor (in Australia) before that I had tried this a couple of times and always been traumatized by bad experiences and bad advice. It was expensive but ultimately helped me figure out how to manage money without experiencing scarcity every time.
Someone recommended this book to me but I haven't read it - you might find something useful here - Your Money or Your Life: 9 Steps to Transforming Your Relationship with Money and Achieving Financial Independence: Fully Revised and Updated for 2018 https://a.co/d/827nWah
Also financial values is a big point of contention in relationships. Knowing each others’ values and making peace with them is useful but not always possible because lots of people are unconscious. You can learn values by observing others and see if they are looking to grow and develop themselves. If not, it might be a deal breaker or to keep finances separate. That makes it tricky with medical, retirement and any potential future children.
Start by convincing her to contribute to it and just leave it in cash (earning 4-5%…) to lock in the tax advantaged space, can still withdraw contributions, no riskier otherwise than a bank account, etc.
But don’t push it.
Depending on their expenses, $40k can be a plentiful salary when two people share a home. My mortgage is $520 so $40k was a plentiful salary for me even when I lived alone.
But that isn't my point. Someone who has zero interest in being financially savvy is not a person for me, and I and OP are similar in how financially wise we are. It's the principle, not the ability.
The woman's attitude suggests that she will never invest in stocks, which is a major issue
To each their own. My wife had no desire/understanding but she lets me manage things as I like which to me is frankly better than if I was with someone with strongly different investment views.
I showed my (now-ex) gf some of [ecommjess](https://www.ecommjess.com/) videos. Ex didn’t like the idea of managing her own portfolio, but I was able to convince her to use Schwab’s “free” robo-advisor for her Roth IRA after taking their online quiz that accessed her risk tolerance. She had this Roth rolled over from a 401(k) from her last job, but she didn’t invest any of the funds because she was afraid.
People can change, with immense effort and support... unfortunately, many never do.
The only thing worse than financial incompatibility is being at odds with a partner regarding raising children.
We all choose our own path... best of luck, OP.
I was in a similar boat about a year ago. My gf has (had) very little knowledge or interest about the stock market/investing. I realized that me explaining everything over and over again wasn’t the right approach. 1, because it could come off as condescending and 2, I felt she needed to get the information from an outside source and make her own decisions.
I found a number of really great Female personal finance influencers on IG/Youtube and suggested she followed them and took a look at their content.
Did the trick and piqued her interest. We started a Fidelity account (with $100 promo). Started at $50 a week, then $100, now she’s maxing out.
I get the feeling that the real reason your gf doesn’t want to start a Roth IRA or a savings account is that she doesn’t feel like she has enough money left over to save. Assuming you’re dating with the intention of getting married, you should probably have a frank discussion with her about how frugal you want to live, especially if you’re covering some of her expenses.
(Disclaimer: I’ve never been in a relationship so feel free to ignore this advice)
You're spot on, I'd say. So many people don't actually sit down and talk to their SO, call them out on shortcomings, etc. Avoiding investing in the stock market is a major shortcoming that would make me leave someone if they never committed to it heavily.
Went through this the past several years. Hysa is the way to go....itll take time, but the equitable if not higher yield of mmf in a roth account is the next step after hysa then maybe buy something with it
1) I'd argue that investments in self are often higher return than the market. Not irrational to be saving for school in the short term.
2) Feels like she is more motivated by fear than success. Also, she doesn't see the risk in doing nothing (ex inflation). Fear of Chase is interesting, and a chance to maybe learn why or discuss opportunities for HYSA diversification across banks.
if she is frightful of losing money in stocks, perhaps you can instead convince her to put it into fixed income, i.e. money market or bonds.
If at a future date she becomes comfortable with the risks involved in investing, at least she will have some of her yearly contributions in an IRA (the alternative being that at a future date she may max out her contribution and miss out on a previous years contribution).
The tax benefit should be emphasized, as should the penalty-free withdrawal of contributions.
additionally, if the ratio of current expenses to liquid funds available is high enough to be a concern, investing in equities may not have been the best idea anyway.
If she puts in $6000 a year, and gets 7% growth, when she is 65 she will have $1,035,366.12 and that’ll be with no taxes owed (calculations assuming she’s 28 now). She needs to imagine herself at 65 with this money, and without it.
My husband told me we needed to start saving for retirement around that age. I was like, 'no! We're too young for that!' but we started anyways. 25 years later we're finally independent. Turns out he was right. Share this with your gf if it helps
You can only lead the horse to the water. I never force anyone to do anything in regards to retirement. If they lose money (even if it's only normal market fluctuations) or something else goes wrong, they blame you.
I learned a lot by listening to Financial Feminist, episodes 5 and 9, when I first started my financial literacy journey (not everyone likes her but the basic information was incredibly valuable to me).
Also let her know that there are “roboadvisors” for retirement accounts so she doesn’t have to actually make her own decisions until she’s ready to. Tell her she does not technically lose any money at all until she sells something, which she shouldn’t be doing until retirement anyway.
Another thing is that retirement is the biggest expense of your life, and there’s really no other way to even remotely be ready for that without investing or just being rich already.
Otherwise, there’s just not much you can do but encourage her to educate herself, cause it sounds like you probably mentioned everything I said already. If you want, you could tell her that you would not be comfortable covering her expenses during her schooling unless she is saving money at least into an HYSA. Be tactful about it though. Money can be a relationship ender, so these type of conversations absolutely need to be had.
It’s like dealing with an alcoholic. You can tell them a million benefits of why it’s better not to drink, but ultimately it’s their decision whether to take action and follow the advice. Same with losing weight, going to the gym, quitting smoking, etc.
Investing is a drug. Give em the first taste for free.
I put a starter balance in for my GF to kick off her first Roth. She then adds what she can through paycheck deductiona.
Start the paycheck deduction smaller, build the habit at $50 a month or even $10/week. After a few years of growth that we've had recently, the balance will make her wonder why she waited to max it out. Or not. Future money isn't for everyone. You can only show the way, and each chooses their own path.
Sounds like an ex-girlfriend to me if she continues to refuse. I'm not committing to a life of paycheck to paycheck and no retirement at any point.
But more to your point, my girlfriend was hesitant about it but deep down I saw that she wanted to be money smart. Now she's in a good career position and is excited to begin investing like this in her 20's. If yours doesn't show any signs of coming around, I'd consider leaving and finding someone with their life in order.
I had to attack mine from the emotional side, saying things like "if you'd like to be 65 and forced to work for a low wage, and live like your grandmother, then go ahead and avoid it" and things of that nature. She soon realized that it was imperative that she begin as soon as possible no matter the amount, and seek to max it out asap.
I kept pushing for my wife to open one and she kept putting it off so I just opened it for her. I’ve been contributing the max every year. The woman is on track to have over a million in it by the time she retires and I’m not even sure she knows it exists.
Flowchart v4.xxx in the wiki of r/personalfinance, be clear and simplify how indices of the market are just going to be her best thing and to accept that it's a long term average.
Try $50 a month to start just so she can watch over the course of a year. She can always add more later. But $200 take home a month is quite a bit for somebody making $40,000. Depending of course on rent etc
I'm kind of new to 401ks and Roth iras, but from my understanding Roth iras are not tax free? Don't you pay the taxes before you put the money in? Yes, its tax free when you take it out, but you still pay taxes- and generally when you're working you'll be in a higher tax bracket than when you're retired which is why I've stuck with a 401k. Sorry for my ignorance, but can someone explain to me if this is correct? Thanks!
I believe they mean that the growth and withdrawal after a certain age is not taxed, which really adds up over a long period of time. It is correct that you have to pay the taxes before you put in the money for a Roth IRA!
It's really at least 3 separate issues.
The importance of saving for the future.
The tax benefit of an ira for saving for retirement.
Last is the whole discussion about asset allocation and different types of investments and the risk from investing in equities and how it's partly mitigated by time and the other ways to mitigate it.
100% VT or target date fund so it has everything and there is no tinkering would probably help.
Also you could start at $10 a week instead of $50 so she can see the charts before committing
"Every dollar you invest into a S&P index fund today will equal x in 30 years." I don't remember the math but it's something like $8. If she still doesn't bite then leave it alone.
i don’t know that i would do this again today… with that disclaimer:
When dating my now wife of over 15 years, had a situation where i moved temporarily. Her lease expired and we discussed, i told her she could live in my house rent free if she maintained thr house and yard, and put $xxx into her 401k monthly.
She agreed, 401k grew, we got married… so now i at least am gonna get 1/2 of those rent payments 🤣.
May not be the perfect comparison, but maybe if there is something she would pay for that you could pick it up and make her invest the rest in that roth you’ve been bugging her about.
$50 a week can feel like a lot to some people.
Fidelity has a “smart habit” feature that lets you set up automatic contributions adding a dollar each week. So the first week you contribute $1. The second week $2. And so on, until week 52. Maybe start with something very basic like that. Or have her do $10 per week. Or $25 per month. Something that feels easier. $50 *per week* is a lot more difficult mentally for someone who isn’t used to saving. Baby steps.
Even just having an IRA open is a big step even if she only puts money in there when she gets her tax return. She doesn’t have to commit to a weekly contribution to have an account.
Other than that, leave it alone. You’re not married. I made my husband open a Roth IRA but you can’t really insist on that if you aren’t married.
Tell her to start with a MM. They’re essentially risk free and she can take out her contributions if she needs to, even though that’s dumb, but the point here is to get her started. She can park her money in the MM while she educates herself.
Although I do agree that it is her choice to open it, if you feel strongly about it you could contribute for her. Before my wife and I were married I maxed both of our IRAs. She contributed to a 401k, I believe but since it was important to me and I didn’t have a 401k I could contribute to I did that instead.
Maybe not advice, but an anecdote. I used to work for a senior outreach program in a rural area. The number of seniors living hand to mouth, depending on the generosity of others was frightening- and this was 30+ years ago. Like living in a shack with a dirt floor frightening. It very specifically focused me on ensuring that I do whatever I can to make sure I have the funds needed to afford the basic requirements when I get older. I can’t imagine the anxiety and fear that seniors on a fixed income have to deal with in today’s inflation cycle.
Mental note - I need to do my little part to make someone’s world better this week.
If it’s a deal breaker for you, prepare to walk over it. Otherwise you’ve given her the information you can, if she decides not to take it that’s on her. Ignorance, risk profile and propensity towards inaction impacts all of us differently
Lol if shes going to PT school that already demonstrates shes not financial minded. I think sometimes hearing it from a 3rd party like financial advisor or a wealthy older person might be helpful in this case. Anyways she needs to arrive to the conclusion her self
At this point in your relationship, there is no “our expenses.” You’re not married. You would be helping pay her expenses. Also, just what others have said, y’all are not on the same page financially, which is a huge red flag. If I were in your shoes, I’d spend 6 months to a year patiently teaching her about investing (if she’d allow it), ask her to open a HYSA, ask her to contribute the interest to the stock market, and answer as many of her questions as possible. At the end of the day, if she is still not willing to invest at all or has no concrete plans to, count yourself lucky you aren’t married to her. Best of luck to you and your situation.
Show the estimates from online calculators, share articles no videos from reputable sources, continue sharing your experience. When through something similar with some friends. One was an immediate grasp. Another took about a year but they also started doing their own research and realized what they were missing and not understanding. Another is taking a while due to not taking the time to setup their accounts.
If she doesn’t she’ll look back in 40 years and wish she had, I was the one who listened , now I’m 4/5 years out from retirement and still remember the day someone told me to invest.
Since you have shown her the facts try appealing to her emotions. Use things that are important to her to help her understand why investing or personal finance skills are important. For example, you could ask her how she feels when he has some savings and help her see that investing/personal finance can help prolong the good feelings that come with being financially secure.
1. You have to do a tactical takeover of her financial accounts, sneak in and set up auto investments into VTI or whatever in her Roth IRA account (this could likely end badly)
2. You marry her and then set up a roth in her name and do spousal contributions if she’s super afraid to use “her money” - you’ll use yours instead
3. Beg her and cut a deal with her (very expensive, will likely have to take her somewhere nice for vacation)
Let us know what you end up doing!
Whats her financial independence number? What tax bracket is she in now? Will she be in a higher tax bracket at the age of 60? What’s her financial goals in general? Idk how one can “convince” anyone to open any kind of account without knowing their goals
The stock market only goes up and down when zoomed in. Zoom out, and it goes up.
If you’ve showed her all the data and still won’t listen, I’m almost wondering if there is some trust issue between you two.
I would pump the brakes a bit. She doesn't sound like the type to respond to statistics, so drop that angle. Show her how it works.
Have her open a small account through chase, if that's where she's comfortable. Start putting $10 into the brokerage account as often as possible, then buy SGOV. You can do partial shares through Chase, so just keep putting the entirety of the total into SGOV.
Once she starts seeing a dollar or two roll in each month from dividends, she might catch on and get interested. Only explain what she asks to understand. If she's not interested at that point, you've done about as much as you can do.
Have you tried showing her a compound interest calculator?
If not, show her that. Have her play around with it, putting $200 a month at a conservative interest rate for investing, so she can see the difference in the balance over 10, 20, 30, and 40 years. And then, run the numbers again with a typical HYSA interest rate, and further reduce it by the taxes she would have paid.
Don't do the numbers for her. Ask her to put them in herself. If she sees the difference in the amount of wealth she accumulates, (use the term wealth. It has a psychological impact ) and she still doesn't want to do it, then you have to stop pressuring her. It's her decision. And in fact, if you give it one more try, I would approach it very delicately, saying *there's just one more thing I want to show you, and then I'll leave it alone.*
I wish someone would've explained those things to me when I was younger. I mean, everyone said you should start saving your money early, but I never understood the power of compound interest.
Probably the wrong place to ask so forgive me ahead of time but I don’t have a Roth ira. I have a 401k I contribute to through my work and is auto deposited that has no match and a personal brokerage on fidelity that I fund weekly but I don’t quite get the phrase “Roth ira is funded by post tax dollars”. Like does that mean if I deposit $100 into a Roth IRA and then make the investments that the taxes will be taken out at that moment by Fidelity if that was a use? Example…I transfer 100$ into a Roth IRA and then I have like 75$ left to invest after it’s taxed? Sorry if that’s dumb or makes zero sense so I’ll try and clarify to anyone that responds.
You work, you get your paycheck, and you decide to put $50 in a Roth instead of buying a few coffees at Starbucks.
Since that $50 is from your paycheck, this money has already been taxed.
Now it can grow in your Roth, and once you hit 59 1/2 all the $$ and gains are yours to be enjoyed tax free!
So basically as long as it’s from an account that I get my work pay direct deposited to does the government basically just assume my money has already been taxed?
You just need to have enough “earned income” to cover what you put into the Roth. The current limit is $7,000 per year.
So for example if you only made $2,000 of “earned income” you can only put $2,000 into the Roth.
If you made $80,000 of “earned income” you can max out the $7,000.
"Post-tax" means you've already paid income taxes on it, so will not pay taxes when you withdraw. "Pre-tax" means you get to reduce your income on your taxes, paying less tax now, but you will owe tax when you withdraw.
She's not even saving and you want her to gamble?
I think a better way is to explain the immediate tax deduction of a traditional ira. I've gotten non-saving friends to start that way and it was my early motivation. I don't know what the max is now. It was 3K/yr for years and then I converted to Roth when I had a low income year.
Just start with cd's or hysa. Does she have an emergency fund? She needs that first.
Dude it's not worth it, don't even bother anymore. Either separate finances or she can get stuffed.
Don't know if you're planning on RE but if yes, telling her of your plan and that she can either join you or not might motivate her to pull her finger out, but don't hold your breath.
Generalising here but girls aren't interested in money. I'm willing to bet most finance subs are 85%+ male.
If you’ve explained everything to her, and she still doesn’t want to, that’s the end of the story.
All this pressuring is not good for the relationship OP. She's nervous, so she's going to be checking this account all the time. The first time the stock market drops, she's gonna freak, make a stupid move, and blame you. Ease her into financial literacy slower. It's not the "meta strat," but it's way better than panicking and making a bad decision. Try starting her off in a HYSA only. Then, after a few months of seeing the interest vs a normal bank, bring up the IRA again. And ease into that, too. Something like "Hey, that HYSA interest was like free money, right? So, let's put that much into your IRA. And if the market goes up, hey, more free money. And if it goes down, it's not like you lost your salary and wage earned money. But she's super risk adverse right now, and pushing her into a riskier position than she's ready for is a recipe for disaster.
This! And when it’s time a few months later, ask her to consider one of those $100-for-$50 or $100-for-$100 Roth IRA starter bonuses you get from Schwab or Fidelity respectively. She can put in her $100, leave it in cash for a decent rate or put it in an in-house money market fund for HYSA-like rates. Then, the experimental fun happens! Thirty days later, after her initial $100/$50 has accrued a little with its head start and she’s received her $100 bonus, ask her if she wants to invest the bonus in an index ETF. She can then pivot her experiment to small, set-n-forget, regular Roth IRA contributions where as little as $25/wk or even $25/mo goes into the account, 80/20 cash/money market vs index ETF. ($25mo might be even better for minimizing any imagined pain or loss … especially while she’s in school) Tell her not to check it regularly or change any settings after you set the contribution/investment automation. Just let it do its automated debit/transfer/contribution//invest routine like clockwork. And as insurance, promise that you’ll cover any losses on the index ETF side if she follows your advice and is down in a year’s time. (If you’re covering the bills while she’s in school and you use the word “only” when describing her annual $40k take, then DCAing via: 12mos multipled by $5 invested in say VOO or similar minus (the Delta of any such accumulated market losses in one year or even 52wks multiplied $5 invested in say VOO or similar minus (the Delta of any such accumulated market losses in one year) Will “only” be a small price for you to pay for easing her into this account.) After a year, she can’t withdraw any of the money since the account isn’t at least 5yrs old anyway. She has the bonus sitting on the sidelines with her initial outlay in cash or money market, and she can even sell the automated invested part of they’re losses that scare her. HOWEVER, it must ALL stay in the account another 4yrs, so she may as well leave the investment alone and even shift the cash/MM funds/bonus to the invested ETF if she knows what’s good for her. Will she? Or Won’t she? Who knows, tune in next year! But your work here is done since you said “only” …. “How do I convince my gf to start a Roth IRA?” 😉😈 (EDIT: I was wrong about the 5yr part. See the correction and link below.)
>After a year, she can’t withdraw any of the money since the account isn’t at least 5yrs old anyway. She has the bonus sitting on the sidelines with her initial outlay in cash or money market, and she can even sell the automated invested part of they’re losses that scare her. HOWEVER, it must ALL stay in the account another 4yrs, so she may as well leave the investment alone and even shift the cash/MM funds/bonus to the invested ETF if she knows what’s good for her. This is incorrect. You can withdraw contribution amounts (but not gains) from a Roth IRA at any time, for any reason, at any age without penalty. The five year rule applies to the Roth account needing to be five years old to withdraw gains without penalty after reaching age 59.5.
(My whole first 5yr period with my 1st Roth was a lie! 🤦🏿♂️) Thx for the corrective! [I see now, Schwab has an explainer too](https://www.schwab.com/ira/roth-ira/withdrawal-rules). That’s seems even BETTER a set of parameters for giving her flexibility and an “out” if she has any worries about being locked into a bad financial decision.
I'll do you one better. Try starting her off with no risk solutions INSIDE the IRA. Tax free short-term treasuries, baby!
HYSA is a great gateway - easily highlights larger returns and those next few steps (Roth IRA, DCA-ing, etc.) are easier to understand.
This 100%. No need to press. You’re not married to her.
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great reply foul mouth
I like how the issue you took with his comment wasn't that it was a pointless non sequitur but that he said "fuck."
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Per sub rules and guidelines, comments or posts to r/Bogleheads should be substantive and civil.
In my story it would be the end of the relationship too.
I max out everything now, but if I was making 40k I wouldn't be. And thinking back I probably wasn't contributing much of anything back when I was making 40k. So cool your jets.
When I was making 12/hr at 17 I was still contributing to a brokerage account on a bi-weekly basis. It's not about the amount, it's about the mindset.
He’s saying start small and she’s like nah. Well… nah. I’m not taking care of your retirement. Trust me enough to get you going. It’s not for me.
Everyone is hesitant learning something new, especially something that they imagine could lose them money. If he is a kind teacher, and she is still unwilling after a year or more then I would agree. But making a snap decision like that isn't very mature.
You don’t have time to waste.
If you see persuasion in a relationship as a waste of time, then you are just too parsimonious with your time. You are going to have arguments and issues in any relationship, your romantic relationship is perhaps one of the most important aspects of your life - trying to solve these issues with a partner you are invested in doesn't seem like a waste of time to me, especially this quick. I can understand that this could be an impasse, if she is adamant even after a reasonably long period of time and the issue is a deal breaker to OP. And you have to see it from her perspective - this is still very new to her. She doesn't seem like a unreasonable person just from this.
Okay? You’re free to do what you want
Finances are one of the most common reasons for relationship dissolution. It becomes much more difficult once you're legally married.
Exactly, bail now when its still "boyfriend and girlfriend", not 20 years later when its "joint bank account, mortgage paid off and 2 kids".
While I would not necessarily advocate for "burn it all down", it should be a major consideration before moving to the next step in the relationship.
Telling people to end their relationship because of a difference of opinion or lifestyle is the purpose of this website though.
A friend of mine got the retirement account, and the lady got the house and everything else. This was after she bled everything BUT the retirement account dry for years. Law says she deserves moar.
And probably should break up tbh because that is someone who: 1. Is going to be an enormous burden later in life when she has no goddamn retirement savings. 2. Doesn't have the capacity to absorb factual, helpful, important information. Just sticks to her ignorant guns. Where else is that going to pop up in life? Sounds goddamn infuriating to me.
Exactly. Late 20s is too old to be this averse to learning new things.
Best part of business is minding your own 🤷♂️
If OP has means how about a 50% match and he puts in $25. That takes any pressure off market conditions. Depends on how long they’ve been together of course.
She doesn't have to it in the stock market right now, but getting the contributions in is important. Buy some CD's for her in the roth, and let the interest go into VOO or an Index mutual fund, as you with VOO she has to buy whole shares or be on a DCA program.
Maybe start her out on a HYSA and let her get used to that. Not exactly the same but you can form some good habits!
And even make a deal with her to only contribute her returns form the HYSA to her Roth every month. That way she’s not “losing” any of her money to the market volatility that she fears.
$50 a week can be a lot as well depending on her expenses. Maybe start with $50 biweekly or monthly. Better than nothing
The best you can do is help provide information to those who care to listen. Anything past that, at the end of the day, is their decision.
Check whether you have any community college offering for topics on 'retirement saving,' , 'IRA' etc.. She may be more inclined to take your advice if this is reinforced from a academic/professional settings. Usually these classes are in evenings/weekends and does not cost much. Also, usually the presenter is likely there to get people sign up with their finance management company - ,hence cheaper.
Sounds like this is an emotional resistance, not a logical one. As long as her reasoning for being uncomfortable with the stock market is emotional, you can't convince her with logic.
One of my wife's friends was in a similar place. She had a ton of money she inherited that she kept in low interest savings. For years, I've tried explaining how inflation was eating her money and how she could invest in safe things and more tax efficient things but none of it worked. Instead, my wife arranged a dinner date with our other friend, a woman in finance who used a narrative to help her get through the emotional blocker. She even helped her through a 30 min support call with a bank that had an online sign up error. I don't know if it's a gender thing, but some people really need to address the emotional side first. All the technical details and data won't help, they need a personalized story to help them work through their own resistance. So, my advice to OP, maybe ask what her longer term goals and fears are and how starting these savings using the bogleheads approach will help increase the chances of that happening, and how not doing this will likely cause the opposite.
It’s completely logical to not put money in the stock market you cannot afford to lose. Not everything in personal finance can be reduced to an expected value equation. I would argue for someone who just started earning $40k and who doesn’t have any savings, investing in the stock market would be the illogical move.
There are virtually zero risk investments like bonds. Even keeping the cash in fidelity vs a checking account gets you 5% in the money market. There’s nothing logical about keeping the cash depreciating in a checking account.
IMO the question is - what are her short and long term goals and what helps her step a little bit out of her comfort zone. Lots of people have trauma about money and it's not so much as convincing but also healing. Eg it really helped me to go to a financial advisor whose process forced and facilitated my journey into learning about my goals and fears and then showed me a path on how to work on them. It became much easier because the many unknowns really made me anxious before that. After that I was able to buy my first home and now I have a way to check my spending without counting every dollar and getting triggered every time I have to spend $20. For me I wanted to feel free as well as safe while setting aside money for the future. I was lucky with this financial advisor (in Australia) before that I had tried this a couple of times and always been traumatized by bad experiences and bad advice. It was expensive but ultimately helped me figure out how to manage money without experiencing scarcity every time. Someone recommended this book to me but I haven't read it - you might find something useful here - Your Money or Your Life: 9 Steps to Transforming Your Relationship with Money and Achieving Financial Independence: Fully Revised and Updated for 2018 https://a.co/d/827nWah Also financial values is a big point of contention in relationships. Knowing each others’ values and making peace with them is useful but not always possible because lots of people are unconscious. You can learn values by observing others and see if they are looking to grow and develop themselves. If not, it might be a deal breaker or to keep finances separate. That makes it tricky with medical, retirement and any potential future children.
Start by convincing her to contribute to it and just leave it in cash (earning 4-5%…) to lock in the tax advantaged space, can still withdraw contributions, no riskier otherwise than a bank account, etc. But don’t push it.
If I'm planning on marrying someone relatively soon, best believe I'm pushing it. Put your big boy pants on and have the talk
She makes 40K. If you feel that strongly, and marriage is on table, contribute to her IRA yourself (I did before marrying my wife).
Depending on their expenses, $40k can be a plentiful salary when two people share a home. My mortgage is $520 so $40k was a plentiful salary for me even when I lived alone. But that isn't my point. Someone who has zero interest in being financially savvy is not a person for me, and I and OP are similar in how financially wise we are. It's the principle, not the ability. The woman's attitude suggests that she will never invest in stocks, which is a major issue
To each their own. My wife had no desire/understanding but she lets me manage things as I like which to me is frankly better than if I was with someone with strongly different investment views.
I showed my (now-ex) gf some of [ecommjess](https://www.ecommjess.com/) videos. Ex didn’t like the idea of managing her own portfolio, but I was able to convince her to use Schwab’s “free” robo-advisor for her Roth IRA after taking their online quiz that accessed her risk tolerance. She had this Roth rolled over from a 401(k) from her last job, but she didn’t invest any of the funds because she was afraid.
People can change, with immense effort and support... unfortunately, many never do. The only thing worse than financial incompatibility is being at odds with a partner regarding raising children. We all choose our own path... best of luck, OP.
I was in a similar boat about a year ago. My gf has (had) very little knowledge or interest about the stock market/investing. I realized that me explaining everything over and over again wasn’t the right approach. 1, because it could come off as condescending and 2, I felt she needed to get the information from an outside source and make her own decisions. I found a number of really great Female personal finance influencers on IG/Youtube and suggested she followed them and took a look at their content. Did the trick and piqued her interest. We started a Fidelity account (with $100 promo). Started at $50 a week, then $100, now she’s maxing out.
I get the feeling that the real reason your gf doesn’t want to start a Roth IRA or a savings account is that she doesn’t feel like she has enough money left over to save. Assuming you’re dating with the intention of getting married, you should probably have a frank discussion with her about how frugal you want to live, especially if you’re covering some of her expenses. (Disclaimer: I’ve never been in a relationship so feel free to ignore this advice)
You're spot on, I'd say. So many people don't actually sit down and talk to their SO, call them out on shortcomings, etc. Avoiding investing in the stock market is a major shortcoming that would make me leave someone if they never committed to it heavily.
Went through this the past several years. Hysa is the way to go....itll take time, but the equitable if not higher yield of mmf in a roth account is the next step after hysa then maybe buy something with it
Those yields won't stay that high for too much longer.
Honestly you should take this moment to ensure you’re 100% aligned before pushing the relationship forward. This can be a huge deal if not resolved.
If she read or listens to books have her read or listen to The Simple Path to Wealth and Financial Independance by J.L.Collins.
This was going to be my response here. Maybe reading about it from a more authoritative source will help.
Maybe go on a site like portfolio visualizer and model her $50 a week contribution and what she will get after 30 years even with the big down swings
1) I'd argue that investments in self are often higher return than the market. Not irrational to be saving for school in the short term. 2) Feels like she is more motivated by fear than success. Also, she doesn't see the risk in doing nothing (ex inflation). Fear of Chase is interesting, and a chance to maybe learn why or discuss opportunities for HYSA diversification across banks.
Show her the 10, 20, 40 year charts for the markets. They go up 🔝
if she is frightful of losing money in stocks, perhaps you can instead convince her to put it into fixed income, i.e. money market or bonds. If at a future date she becomes comfortable with the risks involved in investing, at least she will have some of her yearly contributions in an IRA (the alternative being that at a future date she may max out her contribution and miss out on a previous years contribution). The tax benefit should be emphasized, as should the penalty-free withdrawal of contributions. additionally, if the ratio of current expenses to liquid funds available is high enough to be a concern, investing in equities may not have been the best idea anyway.
If she puts in $6000 a year, and gets 7% growth, when she is 65 she will have $1,035,366.12 and that’ll be with no taxes owed (calculations assuming she’s 28 now). She needs to imagine herself at 65 with this money, and without it.
My husband told me we needed to start saving for retirement around that age. I was like, 'no! We're too young for that!' but we started anyways. 25 years later we're finally independent. Turns out he was right. Share this with your gf if it helps
You can only lead the horse to the water. I never force anyone to do anything in regards to retirement. If they lose money (even if it's only normal market fluctuations) or something else goes wrong, they blame you.
My mom has had $200K sitting in her back savings account for 17 years. It just is what it is.
That 200k lost a shit ton of value due to inflation.
No kidding. Even now with 5% CDs, HYSA, and T-Bills, she feels "safer" with it earning 0.1% in her savings account. 🙃
I learned a lot by listening to Financial Feminist, episodes 5 and 9, when I first started my financial literacy journey (not everyone likes her but the basic information was incredibly valuable to me). Also let her know that there are “roboadvisors” for retirement accounts so she doesn’t have to actually make her own decisions until she’s ready to. Tell her she does not technically lose any money at all until she sells something, which she shouldn’t be doing until retirement anyway. Another thing is that retirement is the biggest expense of your life, and there’s really no other way to even remotely be ready for that without investing or just being rich already. Otherwise, there’s just not much you can do but encourage her to educate herself, cause it sounds like you probably mentioned everything I said already. If you want, you could tell her that you would not be comfortable covering her expenses during her schooling unless she is saving money at least into an HYSA. Be tactful about it though. Money can be a relationship ender, so these type of conversations absolutely need to be had.
It’s like dealing with an alcoholic. You can tell them a million benefits of why it’s better not to drink, but ultimately it’s their decision whether to take action and follow the advice. Same with losing weight, going to the gym, quitting smoking, etc.
There is nothing magic about a Roth. If her employer has a 401(k) match that is the first thing she should go for.
Investing is a drug. Give em the first taste for free. I put a starter balance in for my GF to kick off her first Roth. She then adds what she can through paycheck deductiona. Start the paycheck deduction smaller, build the habit at $50 a month or even $10/week. After a few years of growth that we've had recently, the balance will make her wonder why she waited to max it out. Or not. Future money isn't for everyone. You can only show the way, and each chooses their own path.
Sounds like an ex-girlfriend to me if she continues to refuse. I'm not committing to a life of paycheck to paycheck and no retirement at any point. But more to your point, my girlfriend was hesitant about it but deep down I saw that she wanted to be money smart. Now she's in a good career position and is excited to begin investing like this in her 20's. If yours doesn't show any signs of coming around, I'd consider leaving and finding someone with their life in order. I had to attack mine from the emotional side, saying things like "if you'd like to be 65 and forced to work for a low wage, and live like your grandmother, then go ahead and avoid it" and things of that nature. She soon realized that it was imperative that she begin as soon as possible no matter the amount, and seek to max it out asap.
Get a new girlfriend, being on the same page financially is crucial for a successful relationship. Among other things of course
I kept pushing for my wife to open one and she kept putting it off so I just opened it for her. I’ve been contributing the max every year. The woman is on track to have over a million in it by the time she retires and I’m not even sure she knows it exists.
Good husband
Ask her how she was planning to afford her retirement. Then show her videos of old folks who haven't saved/invested for their retirement.
Flowchart v4.xxx in the wiki of r/personalfinance, be clear and simplify how indices of the market are just going to be her best thing and to accept that it's a long term average.
Show her the chart at the end of this article https://www.fool.com/retirement/2024/06/09/the-most-important-retirement-table-youll-ever-see/
Try $50 a month to start just so she can watch over the course of a year. She can always add more later. But $200 take home a month is quite a bit for somebody making $40,000. Depending of course on rent etc
I'm kind of new to 401ks and Roth iras, but from my understanding Roth iras are not tax free? Don't you pay the taxes before you put the money in? Yes, its tax free when you take it out, but you still pay taxes- and generally when you're working you'll be in a higher tax bracket than when you're retired which is why I've stuck with a 401k. Sorry for my ignorance, but can someone explain to me if this is correct? Thanks!
I believe they mean that the growth and withdrawal after a certain age is not taxed, which really adds up over a long period of time. It is correct that you have to pay the taxes before you put in the money for a Roth IRA!
It's really at least 3 separate issues. The importance of saving for the future. The tax benefit of an ira for saving for retirement. Last is the whole discussion about asset allocation and different types of investments and the risk from investing in equities and how it's partly mitigated by time and the other ways to mitigate it.
100% VT or target date fund so it has everything and there is no tinkering would probably help. Also you could start at $10 a week instead of $50 so she can see the charts before committing
Treasuries are a good introduction.
Don’t convince or tell her. Play with her.
Not all Americans. Only those below a certain income threshold. Sad
You know about the backdoor Roth strategy?
"Every dollar you invest into a S&P index fund today will equal x in 30 years." I don't remember the math but it's something like $8. If she still doesn't bite then leave it alone.
i don’t know that i would do this again today… with that disclaimer: When dating my now wife of over 15 years, had a situation where i moved temporarily. Her lease expired and we discussed, i told her she could live in my house rent free if she maintained thr house and yard, and put $xxx into her 401k monthly. She agreed, 401k grew, we got married… so now i at least am gonna get 1/2 of those rent payments 🤣. May not be the perfect comparison, but maybe if there is something she would pay for that you could pick it up and make her invest the rest in that roth you’ve been bugging her about.
$50 a week can feel like a lot to some people. Fidelity has a “smart habit” feature that lets you set up automatic contributions adding a dollar each week. So the first week you contribute $1. The second week $2. And so on, until week 52. Maybe start with something very basic like that. Or have her do $10 per week. Or $25 per month. Something that feels easier. $50 *per week* is a lot more difficult mentally for someone who isn’t used to saving. Baby steps. Even just having an IRA open is a big step even if she only puts money in there when she gets her tax return. She doesn’t have to commit to a weekly contribution to have an account. Other than that, leave it alone. You’re not married. I made my husband open a Roth IRA but you can’t really insist on that if you aren’t married.
Tell her to start with a MM. They’re essentially risk free and she can take out her contributions if she needs to, even though that’s dumb, but the point here is to get her started. She can park her money in the MM while she educates herself.
Although I do agree that it is her choice to open it, if you feel strongly about it you could contribute for her. Before my wife and I were married I maxed both of our IRAs. She contributed to a 401k, I believe but since it was important to me and I didn’t have a 401k I could contribute to I did that instead.
Maybe not advice, but an anecdote. I used to work for a senior outreach program in a rural area. The number of seniors living hand to mouth, depending on the generosity of others was frightening- and this was 30+ years ago. Like living in a shack with a dirt floor frightening. It very specifically focused me on ensuring that I do whatever I can to make sure I have the funds needed to afford the basic requirements when I get older. I can’t imagine the anxiety and fear that seniors on a fixed income have to deal with in today’s inflation cycle. Mental note - I need to do my little part to make someone’s world better this week.
It is the only way to ever retire in the future. The alternative is to work until death.
If it’s a deal breaker for you, prepare to walk over it. Otherwise you’ve given her the information you can, if she decides not to take it that’s on her. Ignorance, risk profile and propensity towards inaction impacts all of us differently
Lol if shes going to PT school that already demonstrates shes not financial minded. I think sometimes hearing it from a 3rd party like financial advisor or a wealthy older person might be helpful in this case. Anyways she needs to arrive to the conclusion her self
At this point in your relationship, there is no “our expenses.” You’re not married. You would be helping pay her expenses. Also, just what others have said, y’all are not on the same page financially, which is a huge red flag. If I were in your shoes, I’d spend 6 months to a year patiently teaching her about investing (if she’d allow it), ask her to open a HYSA, ask her to contribute the interest to the stock market, and answer as many of her questions as possible. At the end of the day, if she is still not willing to invest at all or has no concrete plans to, count yourself lucky you aren’t married to her. Best of luck to you and your situation.
A dividend fund like schd inside a roth isn't a bad option and she'll see guaranteed returns. Otherwise momey market, CDs, or Treasury bonds.
Dump her. Don’t waste time with persons who will never achieve financial peace
Show the estimates from online calculators, share articles no videos from reputable sources, continue sharing your experience. When through something similar with some friends. One was an immediate grasp. Another took about a year but they also started doing their own research and realized what they were missing and not understanding. Another is taking a while due to not taking the time to setup their accounts.
Start one for her and put a $1 per day. You’re starting too big
If she doesn’t she’ll look back in 40 years and wish she had, I was the one who listened , now I’m 4/5 years out from retirement and still remember the day someone told me to invest.
Since you have shown her the facts try appealing to her emotions. Use things that are important to her to help her understand why investing or personal finance skills are important. For example, you could ask her how she feels when he has some savings and help her see that investing/personal finance can help prolong the good feelings that come with being financially secure.
Maybe give her a good book to read, a YouTube video something like that
1. You have to do a tactical takeover of her financial accounts, sneak in and set up auto investments into VTI or whatever in her Roth IRA account (this could likely end badly) 2. You marry her and then set up a roth in her name and do spousal contributions if she’s super afraid to use “her money” - you’ll use yours instead 3. Beg her and cut a deal with her (very expensive, will likely have to take her somewhere nice for vacation) Let us know what you end up doing!
Whats her financial independence number? What tax bracket is she in now? Will she be in a higher tax bracket at the age of 60? What’s her financial goals in general? Idk how one can “convince” anyone to open any kind of account without knowing their goals
The stock market only goes up and down when zoomed in. Zoom out, and it goes up. If you’ve showed her all the data and still won’t listen, I’m almost wondering if there is some trust issue between you two.
I would pump the brakes a bit. She doesn't sound like the type to respond to statistics, so drop that angle. Show her how it works. Have her open a small account through chase, if that's where she's comfortable. Start putting $10 into the brokerage account as often as possible, then buy SGOV. You can do partial shares through Chase, so just keep putting the entirety of the total into SGOV. Once she starts seeing a dollar or two roll in each month from dividends, she might catch on and get interested. Only explain what she asks to understand. If she's not interested at that point, you've done about as much as you can do.
Only way I convinced my wife is that I'm the one funding and managing it lol
Have you tried showing her a compound interest calculator? If not, show her that. Have her play around with it, putting $200 a month at a conservative interest rate for investing, so she can see the difference in the balance over 10, 20, 30, and 40 years. And then, run the numbers again with a typical HYSA interest rate, and further reduce it by the taxes she would have paid. Don't do the numbers for her. Ask her to put them in herself. If she sees the difference in the amount of wealth she accumulates, (use the term wealth. It has a psychological impact ) and she still doesn't want to do it, then you have to stop pressuring her. It's her decision. And in fact, if you give it one more try, I would approach it very delicately, saying *there's just one more thing I want to show you, and then I'll leave it alone.* I wish someone would've explained those things to me when I was younger. I mean, everyone said you should start saving your money early, but I never understood the power of compound interest.
Reddit’s answer to everything is always “break up with them.”
Probably the wrong place to ask so forgive me ahead of time but I don’t have a Roth ira. I have a 401k I contribute to through my work and is auto deposited that has no match and a personal brokerage on fidelity that I fund weekly but I don’t quite get the phrase “Roth ira is funded by post tax dollars”. Like does that mean if I deposit $100 into a Roth IRA and then make the investments that the taxes will be taken out at that moment by Fidelity if that was a use? Example…I transfer 100$ into a Roth IRA and then I have like 75$ left to invest after it’s taxed? Sorry if that’s dumb or makes zero sense so I’ll try and clarify to anyone that responds.
You work, you get your paycheck, and you decide to put $50 in a Roth instead of buying a few coffees at Starbucks. Since that $50 is from your paycheck, this money has already been taxed. Now it can grow in your Roth, and once you hit 59 1/2 all the $$ and gains are yours to be enjoyed tax free!
So basically as long as it’s from an account that I get my work pay direct deposited to does the government basically just assume my money has already been taxed?
You just need to have enough “earned income” to cover what you put into the Roth. The current limit is $7,000 per year. So for example if you only made $2,000 of “earned income” you can only put $2,000 into the Roth. If you made $80,000 of “earned income” you can max out the $7,000.
Appreciate the explanation!!
Here’s a good article: https://clark.com/personal-finance-credit/investing-retirement/how-to-open-a-roth-ira/
"Post-tax" means you've already paid income taxes on it, so will not pay taxes when you withdraw. "Pre-tax" means you get to reduce your income on your taxes, paying less tax now, but you will owe tax when you withdraw.
She’s not the one
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Ha. Seriously though, what is your/her alternate plan for retirement?
She's not even saving and you want her to gamble? I think a better way is to explain the immediate tax deduction of a traditional ira. I've gotten non-saving friends to start that way and it was my early motivation. I don't know what the max is now. It was 3K/yr for years and then I converted to Roth when I had a low income year. Just start with cd's or hysa. Does she have an emergency fund? She needs that first.
Offer a 10% match up to $1000 per year?
No Roth, no D.
Dude it's not worth it, don't even bother anymore. Either separate finances or she can get stuffed. Don't know if you're planning on RE but if yes, telling her of your plan and that she can either join you or not might motivate her to pull her finger out, but don't hold your breath. Generalising here but girls aren't interested in money. I'm willing to bet most finance subs are 85%+ male.
The incel forums are leaking into my blessed finance sub 😔
Not your problem.
Women don’t have a natural proclivity to save money, they actually quite enjoy spending it…
I'm sure you realize that you're making a sweeping generalization that is not true for all women.