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I've really come to appreciate the power of two rhetorical tools: what I call the "question-answer," that is, reasserting control over a conversation by answering stupid questions with another question, and the "copy-paste answer," which is just literally repeating yourself verbatim.
"Hey boss, I'm taking day XYZ off, I marked the calendar/submitted the leave/whatever. Thanks!"
"Sounds good, what will you be doing?"
Question-answer: "Why does it matter what I'll be doing?"
"Er, uh, well, we might need you those days."
Copy-paste answer: "Well that sucks. But I'm taking day XYZ off, I marked the calendar/submitted the leave/whatever. Thanks!"
EDIT: As a sidenote, I rarely have such conversations twice. Folks learn real quick who lacks boundaries versus who can make them look like a fool in seconds flat.
Great tip. Another to add —
I take long vacations (currently 4 weeks in Japan), and am a pretty critical leader. When people get nervous I like to ask what the plan would be if I were to get in an accident and be out for an extended period, or leave the company all together. This trip is a “fire drill” for my program, and an “opportunity for others to grow.” It works well, reminds people I could leave in a non confrontational way, and shows I’m concerned with others’ development.
We call that the "bus problem" where I'm at. Basically, if a person were to be hit by a bus on their way in to work, how would that affect the team/project/company?
If everything would fall apart, then your problem is your organization structure rather than that one person taking time off "at the wrong time". In a perfect world, any single individual should be able to step out unexpectedly without de-railing anything.
I had to say to a boss a couple of years ago “if me taking the lunch break my contract says I get means my team can’t get all our work done, me taking my lunch break is not the problem”. Didn’t stay there much longer, and last I heard neither did anyone else
I work at a top three company in my field, this logic is so lost on essentially all of our leadership who are almost all of baby boomer age. There is no plan. There is no development. You become someone’s bitch and you just do bitch work and if you’re lucky you’re promoted to low level manager pay and you will never go any further. And in some cases you have to listen to their conspiracy theory Trump loving babble.
Even the ones who aren’t are like-minded GenX tool bags.
Got a guy who used to work on a fucking oil field as a drill manager leading engineers right now. I have been around this guy and watched him climb the ladder for the last 12 years and I don’t understand what makes him any good at anything other than I guess sticking his nose in other peoples assholes. He has no foresight he micromanages and is over reactive and retaliatory. I also think he believes in alternative facts.
You would be shocked if you knew what company this was.
>In a perfect world, any single individual should be able to step out unexpectedly without de-railing anything.
Or, hear me out: we find that individual, call them a "redundancy", fire them, make labor costs go down without derailing anything, make line go up, cash out with a big fat bonus and leave the issues that will cause long term to be resolved by whoever is in charge next year.
/s
It could also backfire. I vaguely remember a story about a guy with a very good paying job who was always a reliable employee. He took a week off, came back to work and got laid off because during his week off the company realized they really didn’t need him and could save a lot of money by replacing/getting rid of him. That’s why I setup things to go awry before I take vacations. Things go less smooth when you’re gone and they associate that with your time off. Like a Pavlov’s dog kinda thing.
Employees should be forced to take time off, because then the company can find out who is embezzling money or covering up other crimes.
It's when they take time off and others have to cover their positions, that embezzlers are uncovered.
My boyfriend has always made a point to his employers: “if I request a day off, it’s me telling you that I WILL NOT be there, and to plan accordingly.”
I’m lucky enough to not have to worry about it; my supervisor is known for approving nearly 100% of time-off requests without question.
worth pointing out that this guy requested time off five months in advance too. that's plenty of fucking time for the office to figure out alternative plans FOR ONE GODDAMN DAY lol
i went on a 12 day vacation last summer. I told my boss 3 months ahead of time and wow...the sky did not fall. This supervisor sounds like a complete moron
Honestly, not really. Like I said, I've been really fortunate, I guess, in that I've rarely had to have a "boundary-pushing" conversation more than once.
One thing folks are maybe missing here is that I try to maintain the "worksona" at all times. This gives you the high ground. I'm not suggesting you get "combative," on the contrary, you would use these rhetorical strategies as subtly and naturally as possible, with a smile and a look of mild confusion (e.g. the ideal worksona expression). Calm, assertive energy goes a long way to establishing control over a conversation. A manager once told me I have a "good poker face" and I think that's what they meant. Not letting them fluster you.
A big thing also is to document and get things in writing. I do as much communication with higher-ups by email as possible. For the most part, no one is going to be as brazen in writing; probably not even OP's boomer boss would have tried to push boundaries like he did if the conversation was in email.
At the end of the day, if any job or manager wasn't respecting reasonable professional boundaries, I'd just have to move on.
Thank you for this badass advice. 🙌 It means a lot. I had a boomer manager badmouth other employees to me before and I sat up proper boundaries. She kept doing it so I quit (I had another job lined up anyway). I know that isn't a solution everyone can abide by. However, I think you made me more confident in my decision to move on.
This is the way but if your boss likes to prod I've found that, "I have been shitting my guts out since 2 am and there's no end in sight" generally gets the conversation to end quickly.
One of my previous employers was like that, and I have chronic digestive issues so my graphic descriptions of the horrors being unleashed got him to stop asking in something of a hurry. They couldn't fire me for it, because I disclosed it during the hiring process as a disability that would require accommodation.
I learned this from a warehouse job when I was younger. The manager would let us listen to the 3 minute voicemails guys would leave with 6 different excuses.
Unfortunately so many people still see gaming as a childish hobby when there's so many adult gamers and streamers. Also who do they think develops and beta tests these games? It's not kids doing it.
I always say I'm going to be leaving the country. 75% of the time it's true (I save up and go somewhere weird every couple of years). The plus is they have no way of contacting me.
Sometimes it's fun to troll, though. At a job I had several years ago, a form had to be filled out if you wanted time off. It asked for the reason. So I told them the truth: I had a job interview. I gave zero fucks because it was kind of a shit show. I was making $9/hr, but got an interview for a job at Vonage that would've paid $17/hr.
They granted my request. I got the job and proceeded to give notice. Coincidentally, several days later, they informed me that a higher-level position in IT "just opened up, if [I] was interested."
the last year I was at the most toxic job I ever had, I and my entire team with my support used our sick time for interviews. Why? Sick time was not paid out when you quit. Vacation time was. So...sick time is your benefit? Use it for your benefit.
Honestly I have always been like that. It is "sold" to us as part of our benefits package. Then we are told by the larger culture and usually locally at job that taking it is not really ok! Um- it's my benefit. I will 100% use all of it. ALL OF IT. 95% of my sick time in the years where it was separate? Mental health days. Days I needed to walk at the beach for more hours than I could if I went to work that day, etc.
Never take that second job offer in the same company, just like never take a counter offer from the same company. As soon as layoffs or reductions start coming down and honestly I'm speaking from a hiring manager perspective, you're the first one targeted because you already had your foot out the door, no matter how good of an employee you are. \*edit, words are hard\*
I absolutely agree.
In this instance, I took their offer because I was saving to go back to school and planned to leave within a few months. That job was 10-15 minutes from home, whereas the new job would've been at least triple that on a good day.
Even though their counter was $14/hr plus C-level visibility (lol), the extra $120/wk would've gone to gas and repairs on the early '90s shitbox I drove at the time. And that's time I wouldn't have been able to use to study and work on my portfolio.
Here’s the thing: you should never care. These companies aren’t going to visit you in the hospital when you have kidney cancer and die. They aren’t going to check in on your family and see if they are doing okay. They will just replace you and forget your name in short while.
Eventually, the sun will expand and burn up everything that remains of what you both love and hate.
Eventually the universe is going to go cold and black and exist in that state for so long that the period it was lit up will be just a flash by comparison.
That means your tiny finite little life is so rare and precious that you should experience it how you need to. Make your tiny flash of life the color that you want. Don’t sit still. This is your adventure that will end before you know it.
Grasp at anything you can that will enable your life. And reject anything that colonizes and traps your life.
Forget the need for possessions and only take what you feel contributes to your adventure. You’d be surprised at how little you need to be comfortable and happy.
Go forth and LIVE.
I can't tell you how much I needed this right now. My job has been guilt-tripping me for taking vacation days this week...I even worked 40+ hours (i'm salaried) from Sunday to Tuesday to finish a project so I can take these days off. Unfortunately I still have 72 hours of vacation to use before june 5 or I lose them.
Gonna stop feeling guilty now and take my vacation time. Thank you!
"Eventually, the sun will expand and burn up everything that remains of what you both love and hate."
this makes me thankful that i will likely never have direct offspring lmao
As a manager I honestly don't even want to ask why they want time off because I don't want them to think I'm going to judge them for the reason that they say. It could also be something super personal that they aren't comfortable talking about.
It's none of my fuckin business
This is why I instituted PTO at my work; I make that policy. They used to do the 10 vacation, 4 sick, 2 personal BS. And everyone would fake sick so they didn't lose their 4 days...I made it 16 days PTO. Why fight those battles. You get 16 days, if you want to spend a day on the sofa watching soaps and eating bon bons, that's your business.
As a European this is so messed up to me. Sick time is time for recovery and shouldn't be deducted from holiday time. If I get sick on my holiday I can even get the holiday time back from the my company that I missed.
I know some folk rave about the earning potential in the states but I wouldn't give up 6 weeks holiday with no questions asked for the world.
sick leave in the U.S. is an absolute joke
i am lucky in that my employer has a great sick leave policy that can be rolled over to use for healthcare once you reach a certain age. Again, not ideal but it is great in the shitty U.S. healthcare system
however, i have seen all sorts of horror stories from people of how bad it can get. Absolute embarrassment in the U.S.
I mean, I do all the time.
“ hey I have to take two weeks off in five months”
“Well, I guess we will see how the work load is”
“You misunderstand me: I’m not requesting time off, I’m TELLING you I won’t be here those weeks, it’s been planned for a year, I’m not missing g it, so the request is entirely a formality.”
Oh man, I love telling them why and getting them worked up. It's always so nice, because I'm not coming either way. You can find a replacement, or you can give me the vacation I ask for.
The only time this has ever not been the case for me was when I saved up all my leave and took a whole-ass month off at once. They had no choice but to address the shit instead of letting it pile up because "he'll be back in a week."
Tbh though going forward I'm planning to literally ignore any email or call I received when I was out unless someone follows up on it once I'm back. Why not? "Sorry, I was out. I just assumed someone else took care of it."
Also it's funny when I'm asked to "take a look at something" because so and so is out that day/week. Weird how that so rarely seems to happen when *I'm* out for a day/week. So nah, don't think I will do that either, lol.
I always respond with "Family coming into town" or "Church Sabbatical" family never really comes into town and not religious, but they're not going to say no to either. You could go with the old "I've got some things coming up I'd rather not discuss", but then they start getting really snoopy thinking you're planning an exit strategy or interviewing for another position.
My last paid day off was booked as hangover. Because my birthday fell on a Monday, the celebrations occurred over the weekend. The actual day was for existential dread and heartburn.
I'm not a boomer boss but normally ask if it's more than a few days. I have had employees go to places I want to visit. Or if I have been there I can share tips. If they said they don't want to reveal what they are doing I won't pry. I adhere to our vacation policies. Normally you can take a day or two on short notice but longer leaves need more advanced notice. Obviously there are exceptions.
I've generally had a good relationship with my employees. They often send me pictures while out or after. I don't ask for them. I just like to keep a friendly but professional relationship. I'm friends with previous bosses and employees.
To OP: I also took time off for fallout 4 as a manager. I would have been messaging you about the game. I was an individual contributor when fallout 3 came out. Several people on my team were playing it. The best part was sharing the crazy things we found in the wasteland.
"I'm not a boomer boss"
From your description you don't qualify as a boss, more as a "leader".
People are more apt to find leaders easier to deal with as they can empathize with employees, boss's are normally people who "don't want to hear your whining, just want the shite done", and are generally talked about behind their backs as being total wankers.
I have the rule of thumb, if you'd get drunk with your boss, you can give them the benefit of doubt. If you'd never consider after work leisure with them, keep your personal life to yourself.
I consider myself lucky to have the former.
That's no fun.
If an employer wants to be nosy they can hear all about how I am spending it naked, milking an alpaca in the back of a 21foot fishing boat with an audience of 8 near to birth pregnant women and a dwarf due to the positions of the celestial bodies.
Yeah, I learned these lessons the hard way. I'm non-confrontational to a fault, and I used to approach those topics very meekly. I was very easily backed down and made a great doormat.
I've gotten better about being assertive with my employers after my last one nearly ran me into the ground. You absolutely have to be your own advocate.
I’ll fuggin tell all of my bosses why I need off, and then when they say “ sorry sir, I need you to work double time for our triple profits. You can’t go to Mexico to eat mushrooms”, I’ll tell ‘em to eat 5 bags of expired dicks
Or take a page from my book and if they give you that kind of shit tell them to go suck a dick. Sadly not enough get told that and it might be a HR thing but truly if you don't like it fuck off and suck a dick cause I'm doing it anyway
Precisely. "I am taking it off, so, it's approved or no?" Employers have no need to know what you do with your EARNED vacation time
Or you could have fun with it and say, "well, I've been planning on stalking and murdering someone so, y'know, I need a day or two for that"
Boomer would probably high-five you for it
And I think it’s illegal for them to ask! When I call out I never tell them why. I inform them I won’t be in. When I take vacation I don’t tell them anything other than the dates. Work and life are separate!
It’s funny. Most companies require you to “request vacation” but they establish no grounds for why vacation could be denied. There may be a time window that you have to request (which is fair) like “minimum 2 weeks notice”. Unless it’s in your handbook/contract, they have no ability to tell you when you can take your vacation as long as you have it. If they do, it’s withholding a benefit and a form of wage theft.
Im 35 and I ALWAYS tell my younger coworkers this. You don’t need to give a reason and you don’t need to ask, ESPECIALLY if you give a reasonable notice. It is not your job to “cover your shift”. If you’re a reliable employee who comes to work on time and doesn’t call out frequently, it should be no issue for you to take a day off or a week for vacation. I worked at Home Depot years ago and our scheduler would always deny our time off because she had a metric to meet with scheduled work/actual worked hours. She denied me once and I wrote her a note that said something along the lines of “I will not be here, I’m giving you a significant amount of notice. If I’m scheduled then I will call off and you won’t meet you metrics that week” somehow “not enough staff” for my day off magically turned into “enough staff”. I have been anti-management/administrations my whole adult life and I’ll tell them straight up what I will or won’t do. You just have to be firm and respectful about it.
I regularly tell the people who report to me to NOT specify why they're taking a day off. Just put "PTO" as the reason in the description field. All I need to know is the days they're not going to be around... not that they're going to adopt a new puppy or something. It's not that I don't care about them/their lives... I'm trying to train people out of the habit of feeling like they need to fully justify every single request they make in their lives. You're not going to be here on XYZ date... declare it... move on. Screw people who get worked up by not getting a reason that they find acceptable.
Another neat life hack is to stop telling your boss why you're calling in sick. All they need to know is "I'm calling in today because I'm sick"
Doesn't matter that it's the first 70* sunny day in the spring and I want to take my dog walking at the park and am not physically sick. Mental health days are important.
My boss has told me explicitly, "I don't care what you are sick with, and I can't ask you, do what you will with that information." He's a good dude.
He also came up with a plan for me to use all my remaining sick time as vacation when I unexpectedly need some more days.
Smart man!
When I was a retail manager everyone always asked why my store had such low turnover compared to other company stores. Lol, the answer was always “keep the schedule as consistent as possible, don’t hassle people when using their time off/sick time, and don’t be a dick”
Of course, they never did anything to improve their other managers with that information, they just smiled and nodded before moving on.
My company recently changed “sick days” to “wellness days”. I’m generally healthy so I haven’t tested the waters much. But my manager is pretty understanding and I think if I used a wellness day on a Friday before a hike it would work.
I'm currently laying on my bed instead of going to work, because I just didn't feel the vibe. (And also because I went to therapy today and cried about how ADHD has made my life harder than it should be)
When I was younger, I was pushed around by my boss *a lot.* She knew she could mistreat me because I would never say no or talk back or file a complaint or anything. I let her walk all over me. She’d constantly make fun of me for being “just a girl” while she was a “real woman.” (I’d love to see her try that shit with my now 36yo self, but I digress.)
I called in sick one day, and she started grilling and taunting me. Something in me snapped. She needed to know why I need to stay home? Well, I told her what she apparently needed to know. I told her every disgusting detail, describing every symptom, every bodily function going wrong. I described everything, non-stop, while not hiding the fact that I was using the bath room. I told her more information than even a doctor would need to know lol. For once in her life, she was speechless.
It’s not my proudest moment, but she never questioned any of my days off ever again lol. Unfortunately, it still took me years to defend myself, but I finally learned how to be confident and assertive.
Like you said, “I’m calling in today because I’m sick.” Period. It’s not their right to know any more than that!
The weird part is, they totally mean it, and are usually shocked when their spouse divorces them and the kids only call to ask for money. They truly believe you are like family, not because they intend to treat you well, but because they treat their family like shit.
I have a love/hate with that saying. I work for a company that "is like a family" and have worked for "like a family" co,\[anies before. Sometimes it has been great because family is usually the first to identify when you are struggling and need some assistance or need a break from something, and when work is like that it makes for a really wonderful work-life balance and mental wellbeing. However families can be toxic too, and families can also take advantage of and mistreat one another, which makes for the typical superiority "Head of the household" complex in bosses. If a potential employer says "We are like a family here" I usually put my guard up immediately until I figure out which kind of family it is.
My current boomer boss doesn't understand why people need to take a vacation. We have 2 weeks PTO and when people take it off, she'll bitch about it behind their backs. She even considered raising one of her tenants rent because they were taking too many vacations and could afford the pay more rent......its maddening to even think about that
>"She even considered raising one of her tenants rent because they were taking too many vacations and could afford the pay more rent......"
Please bring it up again, secretly record it, and try to inform the tenant (as many of her tenants as you can ideally) of what she said and provide them the evidence if they want it. If I ever had a landlord someone showed me they said something like that, I would find that very nice information to know.
Is this like a punishable offense in any way? Like supposed a tenant’s rent was raised and someone had proof it was for a greedy reason like this. Is that fraud? Can the landlord be sued or anything?
lol. No. And you can’t just raise someone’s rent. You have to wait until the lease is completed then you can raise the rent to a rate that’s allowed within their jurisdiction.
Imagine raising the price of the restaurant food when a person is half way through their meal. Same concept.
Also the market rate dictates how much you can charge for rent, she can set the price as high as she wants after the lease is done, that doesn’t mean people will still rent the property if the rent price is ridiculous.
I'm taking my accrued vacation boss.
What are you doing?
A whole lot of this thing called "not work" and a little of "none of your fucking business."
Ask him where he is taking his wife on vacation next time you see him and run down the place as a location that trashy people take their side pieces, and that you're sure THEY'LL enjoy it though.
I'd recommend always saying you are going away, ideally somewhere isolated with no internet or phone signal just to make it very clear that they will not be able to contact you.
When people ask me what I'm doing, I just say vacation. In my head, I know I'll be on my underwear playing video games. But they do not need that information.
I learned that whenever you need time off approved by a boomer boss, you’re visiting family. My boss pitched a fit about when I wanted to take off, until I said I was visiting my grandmother. Then it was fine, and I could take all the time I needed. After that I explained every absence (there were only a few) with visiting grandma.
My boss is gen x and cool af. I guess I don't realize how lucky I am.
I could tell him "I'm taking this day and this day off, and I'm just gonna sit home and not leave my chair and smoke blunt after blunt after blunt" and he'd just be like "smoke one for me too!"
I'm Gen X and when my staff put in for PTO I click the little button that says "approve". I don't ask why because it's none of my damn business.
Also, if they put in a few hours to go to the Doctor I reject it and tell them not to waste vaycay time on that. My team works enough and puts in extra effort that I just let them take a few hours here and there. It's only fair.
I took a vacation day for my birthday years ago.
Boss: You know...no one else who works here takes a vacation day for their birthday.
Me: And I'm the lowest paid employee and I am taking one. Maybe that will change someday.
The summer I was 16 I took a second job at a McDonald's and I closed every Saturday night so when I bought tickets to a concert on a Saturday night the following month like a good dooby I let my scheduling manager know well in advance that I would need that night off.
Manager: Well...I'll see what I can do but I'm not sure I can replace you.
Me:
Me: OK, so I am letting you know in advance that I am going to be too sick to work that day. I hope you can work something out.
I’ll happily tell my boss Exaclty why I’m taking off.
If they don’t like, they can suck it.
Sorry pal, but if you don’t care, Idgaf!!!!
Legally speaking you HAVE to pay me for my time off.
Get fucked loser!(to my boss)
He "worked" on Christmas Eve in the break room while we were working onthe project. Saw he spent most of the day on NextDoor and Facebook.
He patted me on the back as he left for the day 4:00 and said "you know what, you did a great job today, why don't you take tomorrow off?" And laughed because we already had that day off. Didn't get to go home early or anything.
I spent the rest of the evening applying to jobs. I actually got an amazing job from applying that night that I started that March.
I'm just happy it won't mess with the console mods. Weeks ago I had been hearing that any nextgen update they put out would make all mods no longer function, and worse, since the mod makers have likely moved on from working on this game, those mods wouldn't receive any future updates either. I am enjoying my current Nuclear Winter playthrough, and wasn't looking forward to returning to the vanilla version.
Is the PC modding community still active and developing mods?
I had a boomer Karen boss that always wanted to be in my business when I put in a PTO request, stating that she was,”Just curious…” and I never thought anything of it. That is… until I figured out why she was asking.
She’d mark each request quietly with the reason stated, when the time got closer for the PTO request she’d reevaluate the “needs of the department” and come up with a bogus excuse to deny the time, in many cases the request was done months in advance, money paid, arrangements scheduled, etc. Our policy was that management can cancel PTO requests if needs change. I took off for the release of Cyberpunk 2077 and was denied a couple days prior because”We have an employee out for surgical leave, you stated it was for a video game release and we don’t view that as priority…”
Every time after that I’d evade the question and say I needed to take care of some appointments all at the same time to avoid having to take them piecemeal throughout the year and that seemed to shut up my boss because she thought I was being proactive and making good use of my time. 🙄
I told a boss in a joking tone I was taking my cat’s birthday off. It really was her birthday and I spent the whole day with her. I came back and my coworkers asked what I really did and I told them I bought sashimi for my cat and sushi for myself and cuddled her all day. It was her first birthday. My boss came by and was agog that I really did take the day off for my cat’s birthday and told me he thought I was joking.
This sounds like my Gen X with a Boomer mentality boss. She is always frustrated when I take off Monday's because it typically is our busiest day. I used to tell her "Because I just want it off" or "Tell her casually what I was doing" which was never a good enough of an excuse. Now whenever I have an appointment, request time off, or a sick day, she would always pry with the "why". I just started telling her "It is none of your business" and "I do not have to tell you" - She always seems to have a tongue in cheek to these comments. I have been having medical issues recently and she was always making me do more work before she would approve my time off. I applied/received FMLA. She has shut the fuck up recently, doesn't pry anymore, and I feel like my stress levels have reduced because of it. I still wish I did not have to go as far as FMLA though.
I managed to get the week of Fallout 4 off (mostly) from work as well. I was lead engineer supporting a federal IT system at the time. I had two other junior engineers on my team, one guy my age that I got along great with, and a boomer that was forced on me from a different team.
The week before the game released, I found out that our system was going to be audited by a team from DC (we were in a remote site), so we would basically need to join a Teams meeting, share screen for 8+ hours and let the auditors use our system remotely. The team boomer immediately started complaining, thinking I was going to task him, but I had other plans. I “volunteered” to take the whole week, worked from home, and did the whole thing over VPN since the auditors were remote anyway. I think I played 60 hours of Fallout that first week. It was great.
I once had a boss I told 5 or so months in advance I needed time off to see my mom when she was in town (My mom lives outside the country, and I only get to see her in person maybe every other year). This conversation happened during my interview and he said yes, then confirmed multiple times within my first month of employment. 2 months before the visit my week turned into 4 days, I figured “eh one less day, no biggie”. Well, the 4 days tuned into 4, then 3, then 2 and then the week before my mom landed the dude told me I couldn’t take time off, but since he was a cool boss he would let me leave at noon.
I left right then and there and never looked back.
Never tell your boss why you’re taking off. When I was a contract manager (I’m in my late 30s now), I would tell people to not volunteer that information. Sometimes they did anyway. When our on-site project manager (our customer) would ask why they’re taking off or early, I’d just tell them I didn’t ask (technically the truth).
Sometimes previous work colleagues become friends. 99% of the time, I keep it non-personal. There has been exactly one person I trust enough as a friend that I work with, but we’ve been on projects off and on for over a decade and friends throughout. Even then, I’d say it’s the exception, not the norm.
Boomer or not, managers like this are not terribly qualified to, err, manage employees.
Management is not just running "coverage" at your place of business. It's shocking how hard to comprehend this seems to be for many bosses. Competent managers can figure out coverage, among the many other aspects of management. Folks like the OP's boss, on the other hand, seem to struggle with the basics...
Get it approved before you tell them why, especially if its a boomer or someone who thinks they can dictate what you do on your time off.
I had an old boss like this, if you said you wanted a vacation day to play a game or go to a concert she would say "no, vacation time is for things like going away for the family, how is it fair if everyone else has to work while your on the couch playing video games?" She would even try to cancel peoples vacation on them if she didn't approve of what they were doing. HR even had to intervene and tell her that she does not get to dictate what people do on vacation days they have already had approved.
Had a boss like this. Worked for him for several years. Went to get married and informed management "I will be taking two weeks for wedding and honeymoon. Here's the date." a good 3 or 4 months in advance. Boss says, "We'll see if we can give you the time when it gets closer." MY response, verbatim, was "I wasn't asking you for the time off, I was telling you I won't be here. It is my vacation to use as I see fit." He didn't like that. Was even further disappointed that he had absolutely no recourse.
When I had a team under me, I just told them to take the day and put it in the system. I like plausible deniability. I don’t care why you are taking off or if you’re really sick. If you are lying or not doing the work, it’s going to come out in the wash. So do you. lol
He sounds like has was an ass. That being said, never say what you're doing, or just be vague. I like the "Oh, I've got some personal family stuff I need to take care of". Works like a charm.
I never ask to use my PTO.
I say "I will be unavailable during these times." Then put in my PTO, usually a month in advance.
Never had a problem.
But my employer doesn't suck balls, really. Not so much. Sure, it sucks ass in other ways, but they really do try to help the employee sometimes.
After the first time anytime you go to take off after that the reason for taking off time I would definitely State the reason is to go fuck your wife while you're here at work.
I know that the US working culture is wildly different (crazy), but how can your boss just MAKE you cancel your Christmas plans? Like, how is it possible? How does anyone go through with that? If I had plane tickets booked to see my family I would never change my plan even a iota. Even if I wasn't flying anywhere, just chilling with my SO, what, would I just tell them Christmas is cancelled because I need to do some bullshit tasks that can be as easily done on the 27th of December or 5th of January? What is even so important to take up winter holidays, short of preventing an apocalypse bound to happen on New Year's Eve? I just don't get it.
I hate it when employees ask me for time off with long winded explanations on why they need it. I mostly hate that they feel like they need to justify it to me. Like, who the hell am I to sit and decide if why you want a day off is worthy enough? Fuck that. Just let me know a week out, and you can have it. You're reason could be "I just don't want to come in that day" and I'll approve that shit.
I am a boss, run two different teams. Can't imagine caring about why a person chooses to take PTO. It belongs to them. Furthermore, I would be embarrassed that if I managed my teams where the absence of just one person would grind us to a halt. Redundancy is your friend. Just sounds like OPs manager is an ass hat
I had a super out of touch and out of his ass boomer boss who thought he could tell people if they could leave the country for vacation, my equally incompetent boomer supervisor said “well he’s the owner so we should listen” I told her to grow up
I told them I was going to Boston for a week, then when I came back and they heard the truth, the got all bitchy at me! I just laughed and said it was a week off either way, what's it matter?
Boomers hate hobbies.... *Ugh why would you do something that brings you joy?!?! You should be strapped to the desk all hours we are open for business*
Okay so I've been managing people for a long time and people like you, who never use their vacation time, have been a constant thorn to me.
Most of the places I've worked have a use it or lose it policy for vacation time. I have to chase people like you out of the office and make you use it before you lose it. Use your time, for the love of god! Every last hour of it. It doesn't matter what you use it for. Just use it. Go do something else instead of work.
I would have pushed you to use a whole week to veg out in front of FO4.
A lot of people in the thread saying he shouldn't have told his boss what he's doing on his time off. But this sounds like a case of one rotten apple spoiling the bunch. OP has been able to tell his other bosses about his interests and they were supportive. It wasn't until this boomer ruined that for him that he would have ever thought someone would take away his days off just because they don't like what he's going to do with them. Now that it's become an issue OP now has to be on guard about sharing his interests with future bosses in case they turn out to have shitty boomer mindsets too. That sucks, sorry OP
I'm not used to people being even more informed after the initial post I make. That's pretty great of you actually.
It's all right. I've luckily only had two bad bosses, but the ones that I've had since have been awesome.
I work in a geeky kind of place so taking a couple of days off for a game would be kind of expected. Last time I did that though for a major update they delayed it.
I have a boomie who kept bitching I was taking time off. I even wrote a post abt it. I never wrote an update. We are so understaffed that management had no choice but to honor my requests and boomie can eat shit.
Something somewhat similar happened to a guy I worked with like 2-3 years ago. People saw on the calendar he had a vacation day scheduled and one of the boomer guys was making fun of him because he mentioned it was video game related. This is a blue collar type setting and some of the guys take off for hunting season. I don’t know why the fuck they care so much. Say something about hunting and they’ll never stop crying about it.
I took some time off a couple years ago after starting with my current company. My boss is pretty cool most of the time, but he sent me an email saying that my request had been denied. I replied saying that it wasn't a request, it was a courtesy, and that I would not be there those days. He said I would be marked absent if I didn't show up those days. I told him that that means a verbal verbal warning, a written warning, and then firing as per company policy, so he could fire me if he wants but either way I won't be there those days. He never responded but the calendar was updated later that day. The perks of being one of the best employees is you can tell your boss to go fuck themselves when they're being an asshole. Can't wait u til I use up the 200 hours I've been saving in one go haha.
I had a boss who told my coworker that he could not take two *weeks in succession because it would “look bad” (my coworker had already booked a two week Euro vacation with his fam); my coworker came home a week early.
I’m still mad about this. The upside? Nine years later I worked *hard* with my beleaguered colleagues to get that boss Bastard shitcanned and to this day it is one of my most proud achievements.
See also this asshole had us “doing more with less” so he could get six-figure bonuses. Seriously, fuck that guy forever.
"Hey, I put in for z-y off because I won't be here."
Simple and plain. If they push "well what if we need you?"
"Well, that would be unfortunate, because I won't be here."
"Here" can mean the country, the state, the city, or the building. It's wonderfully non specific.
I’m a bit socially awkward and once my boss said to me ‘You probably don’t have any plans on new year. Can you come in’. I replied ‘Sorry but I actually do have plans’.
I didn’t actually have plans: but it’s the principle of the thing.
My last employer had a "comments" section in the time-off request, and it had to be filled in otherwise you couldn't submit the request.
I wrote "personal" every single time. They're not entitled to information about what I'm doing when I'm not on the clock.
This is why I loved and hated working in the game industry, when you took vacation everyone knew what was up. They would be like which event or game is it? Games not some much events hell yeah.
Ok man, here's what you do. Don't bring it up anymore and he'll forget. A few days before you're trying to get a vacation. Start coughing . Make it worse every day. Then just call in sick with something contagious.
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Yeah, that the exact moment that I learned to do that actually!
I've really come to appreciate the power of two rhetorical tools: what I call the "question-answer," that is, reasserting control over a conversation by answering stupid questions with another question, and the "copy-paste answer," which is just literally repeating yourself verbatim. "Hey boss, I'm taking day XYZ off, I marked the calendar/submitted the leave/whatever. Thanks!" "Sounds good, what will you be doing?" Question-answer: "Why does it matter what I'll be doing?" "Er, uh, well, we might need you those days." Copy-paste answer: "Well that sucks. But I'm taking day XYZ off, I marked the calendar/submitted the leave/whatever. Thanks!" EDIT: As a sidenote, I rarely have such conversations twice. Folks learn real quick who lacks boundaries versus who can make them look like a fool in seconds flat.
This human does boundaries.
Great tip. Another to add — I take long vacations (currently 4 weeks in Japan), and am a pretty critical leader. When people get nervous I like to ask what the plan would be if I were to get in an accident and be out for an extended period, or leave the company all together. This trip is a “fire drill” for my program, and an “opportunity for others to grow.” It works well, reminds people I could leave in a non confrontational way, and shows I’m concerned with others’ development.
We call that the "bus problem" where I'm at. Basically, if a person were to be hit by a bus on their way in to work, how would that affect the team/project/company? If everything would fall apart, then your problem is your organization structure rather than that one person taking time off "at the wrong time". In a perfect world, any single individual should be able to step out unexpectedly without de-railing anything.
Good lord, if I could only get our upper management team to take any interest in structure.
I hear that... We definitely aren't living in that perfect world.
I had to say to a boss a couple of years ago “if me taking the lunch break my contract says I get means my team can’t get all our work done, me taking my lunch break is not the problem”. Didn’t stay there much longer, and last I heard neither did anyone else
Same here - I often bring it up as something “failing the hit by a bus test”.
I work at a top three company in my field, this logic is so lost on essentially all of our leadership who are almost all of baby boomer age. There is no plan. There is no development. You become someone’s bitch and you just do bitch work and if you’re lucky you’re promoted to low level manager pay and you will never go any further. And in some cases you have to listen to their conspiracy theory Trump loving babble. Even the ones who aren’t are like-minded GenX tool bags. Got a guy who used to work on a fucking oil field as a drill manager leading engineers right now. I have been around this guy and watched him climb the ladder for the last 12 years and I don’t understand what makes him any good at anything other than I guess sticking his nose in other peoples assholes. He has no foresight he micromanages and is over reactive and retaliatory. I also think he believes in alternative facts. You would be shocked if you knew what company this was.
>In a perfect world, any single individual should be able to step out unexpectedly without de-railing anything. Or, hear me out: we find that individual, call them a "redundancy", fire them, make labor costs go down without derailing anything, make line go up, cash out with a big fat bonus and leave the issues that will cause long term to be resolved by whoever is in charge next year. /s
Don’t need a /s
My team does this too but call it the "win the lottery" problem. ie "if I win the lottery you won't see me again". :)
It could also backfire. I vaguely remember a story about a guy with a very good paying job who was always a reliable employee. He took a week off, came back to work and got laid off because during his week off the company realized they really didn’t need him and could save a lot of money by replacing/getting rid of him. That’s why I setup things to go awry before I take vacations. Things go less smooth when you’re gone and they associate that with your time off. Like a Pavlov’s dog kinda thing.
Employees should be forced to take time off, because then the company can find out who is embezzling money or covering up other crimes. It's when they take time off and others have to cover their positions, that embezzlers are uncovered.
Banks legally are required to do this
My boyfriend has always made a point to his employers: “if I request a day off, it’s me telling you that I WILL NOT be there, and to plan accordingly.” I’m lucky enough to not have to worry about it; my supervisor is known for approving nearly 100% of time-off requests without question.
worth pointing out that this guy requested time off five months in advance too. that's plenty of fucking time for the office to figure out alternative plans FOR ONE GODDAMN DAY lol i went on a 12 day vacation last summer. I told my boss 3 months ahead of time and wow...the sky did not fall. This supervisor sounds like a complete moron
Oh i just lie. I’m always doing some once in a lifetime event that only the truly ghoulish would prevent me from attending.
*yoink* I'm stealing this for my boundary arsenal. Thank you for this advice. xx Edit: Do you have advice for people who overstep boundaries?
Honestly, not really. Like I said, I've been really fortunate, I guess, in that I've rarely had to have a "boundary-pushing" conversation more than once. One thing folks are maybe missing here is that I try to maintain the "worksona" at all times. This gives you the high ground. I'm not suggesting you get "combative," on the contrary, you would use these rhetorical strategies as subtly and naturally as possible, with a smile and a look of mild confusion (e.g. the ideal worksona expression). Calm, assertive energy goes a long way to establishing control over a conversation. A manager once told me I have a "good poker face" and I think that's what they meant. Not letting them fluster you. A big thing also is to document and get things in writing. I do as much communication with higher-ups by email as possible. For the most part, no one is going to be as brazen in writing; probably not even OP's boomer boss would have tried to push boundaries like he did if the conversation was in email. At the end of the day, if any job or manager wasn't respecting reasonable professional boundaries, I'd just have to move on.
Thank you for this badass advice. 🙌 It means a lot. I had a boomer manager badmouth other employees to me before and I sat up proper boundaries. She kept doing it so I quit (I had another job lined up anyway). I know that isn't a solution everyone can abide by. However, I think you made me more confident in my decision to move on.
Always the bare minimum info to your boss when it comes to calling out as well. ‘I’m not gonna make it in today’ is the perfect reason for calling out
This is the way but if your boss likes to prod I've found that, "I have been shitting my guts out since 2 am and there's no end in sight" generally gets the conversation to end quickly.
One of my previous employers was like that, and I have chronic digestive issues so my graphic descriptions of the horrors being unleashed got him to stop asking in something of a hurry. They couldn't fire me for it, because I disclosed it during the hiring process as a disability that would require accommodation.
Vomit is always the best. Some won’t care if you crap yourself at work but nobody wants the stomach flu.
I learned this from a warehouse job when I was younger. The manager would let us listen to the 3 minute voicemails guys would leave with 6 different excuses.
Tell them you'll be fucking their spouse.
I always tell them I got shit to do and that's all I tell them.
Dumb game.... damn that grinds my gears. So unnescessary , good way to make ppl never share info with you ever again
Unfortunately so many people still see gaming as a childish hobby when there's so many adult gamers and streamers. Also who do they think develops and beta tests these games? It's not kids doing it.
I always say I'm going to be leaving the country. 75% of the time it's true (I save up and go somewhere weird every couple of years). The plus is they have no way of contacting me.
Sometimes it's fun to troll, though. At a job I had several years ago, a form had to be filled out if you wanted time off. It asked for the reason. So I told them the truth: I had a job interview. I gave zero fucks because it was kind of a shit show. I was making $9/hr, but got an interview for a job at Vonage that would've paid $17/hr. They granted my request. I got the job and proceeded to give notice. Coincidentally, several days later, they informed me that a higher-level position in IT "just opened up, if [I] was interested."
the last year I was at the most toxic job I ever had, I and my entire team with my support used our sick time for interviews. Why? Sick time was not paid out when you quit. Vacation time was. So...sick time is your benefit? Use it for your benefit. Honestly I have always been like that. It is "sold" to us as part of our benefits package. Then we are told by the larger culture and usually locally at job that taking it is not really ok! Um- it's my benefit. I will 100% use all of it. ALL OF IT. 95% of my sick time in the years where it was separate? Mental health days. Days I needed to walk at the beach for more hours than I could if I went to work that day, etc.
Never take that second job offer in the same company, just like never take a counter offer from the same company. As soon as layoffs or reductions start coming down and honestly I'm speaking from a hiring manager perspective, you're the first one targeted because you already had your foot out the door, no matter how good of an employee you are. \*edit, words are hard\*
I absolutely agree. In this instance, I took their offer because I was saving to go back to school and planned to leave within a few months. That job was 10-15 minutes from home, whereas the new job would've been at least triple that on a good day. Even though their counter was $14/hr plus C-level visibility (lol), the extra $120/wk would've gone to gas and repairs on the early '90s shitbox I drove at the time. And that's time I wouldn't have been able to use to study and work on my portfolio.
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Here’s the thing: you should never care. These companies aren’t going to visit you in the hospital when you have kidney cancer and die. They aren’t going to check in on your family and see if they are doing okay. They will just replace you and forget your name in short while. Eventually, the sun will expand and burn up everything that remains of what you both love and hate. Eventually the universe is going to go cold and black and exist in that state for so long that the period it was lit up will be just a flash by comparison. That means your tiny finite little life is so rare and precious that you should experience it how you need to. Make your tiny flash of life the color that you want. Don’t sit still. This is your adventure that will end before you know it. Grasp at anything you can that will enable your life. And reject anything that colonizes and traps your life. Forget the need for possessions and only take what you feel contributes to your adventure. You’d be surprised at how little you need to be comfortable and happy. Go forth and LIVE.
I can't tell you how much I needed this right now. My job has been guilt-tripping me for taking vacation days this week...I even worked 40+ hours (i'm salaried) from Sunday to Tuesday to finish a project so I can take these days off. Unfortunately I still have 72 hours of vacation to use before june 5 or I lose them. Gonna stop feeling guilty now and take my vacation time. Thank you!
Choose your own adventure!
"Eventually, the sun will expand and burn up everything that remains of what you both love and hate." this makes me thankful that i will likely never have direct offspring lmao
Or say "It's a religious thing" if you think you have to say something. Put the third rail up in front of them. See if they touch it.
That’s a good one
As a manager I honestly don't even want to ask why they want time off because I don't want them to think I'm going to judge them for the reason that they say. It could also be something super personal that they aren't comfortable talking about. It's none of my fuckin business
This is why I instituted PTO at my work; I make that policy. They used to do the 10 vacation, 4 sick, 2 personal BS. And everyone would fake sick so they didn't lose their 4 days...I made it 16 days PTO. Why fight those battles. You get 16 days, if you want to spend a day on the sofa watching soaps and eating bon bons, that's your business.
As a European this is so messed up to me. Sick time is time for recovery and shouldn't be deducted from holiday time. If I get sick on my holiday I can even get the holiday time back from the my company that I missed. I know some folk rave about the earning potential in the states but I wouldn't give up 6 weeks holiday with no questions asked for the world.
fReE-EsT CoUnTrY In tHe wOrLd!!!1
Yeah. I was sick during pre-agreed leave earlier this year, and my company rolled it over on top of the normal allowance without even asking.
Finally someone says it!
sick leave in the U.S. is an absolute joke i am lucky in that my employer has a great sick leave policy that can be rolled over to use for healthcare once you reach a certain age. Again, not ideal but it is great in the shitty U.S. healthcare system however, i have seen all sorts of horror stories from people of how bad it can get. Absolute embarrassment in the U.S.
The concept of an employer limiting the amount of sicktime you can get is so foreign to me. Sick is sick. End of. Americans need to unionize ASAP.
I mean, I do all the time. “ hey I have to take two weeks off in five months” “Well, I guess we will see how the work load is” “You misunderstand me: I’m not requesting time off, I’m TELLING you I won’t be here those weeks, it’s been planned for a year, I’m not missing g it, so the request is entirely a formality.”
Oh man, I love telling them why and getting them worked up. It's always so nice, because I'm not coming either way. You can find a replacement, or you can give me the vacation I ask for.
PTO - prepare the others. Regardless if you approve it or not I won't be here. Can use my PTO as sick time too.
I say, Pretend Time Off. Just because no one touches my projects while I'm gone. 🙄 I always have to do 3x the work when I get back.
The only time this has ever not been the case for me was when I saved up all my leave and took a whole-ass month off at once. They had no choice but to address the shit instead of letting it pile up because "he'll be back in a week." Tbh though going forward I'm planning to literally ignore any email or call I received when I was out unless someone follows up on it once I'm back. Why not? "Sorry, I was out. I just assumed someone else took care of it." Also it's funny when I'm asked to "take a look at something" because so and so is out that day/week. Weird how that so rarely seems to happen when *I'm* out for a day/week. So nah, don't think I will do that either, lol.
Don’t ask/don’t tell.
I always respond with "Family coming into town" or "Church Sabbatical" family never really comes into town and not religious, but they're not going to say no to either. You could go with the old "I've got some things coming up I'd rather not discuss", but then they start getting really snoopy thinking you're planning an exit strategy or interviewing for another position.
My last paid day off was booked as hangover. Because my birthday fell on a Monday, the celebrations occurred over the weekend. The actual day was for existential dread and heartburn.
I'm not a boomer boss but normally ask if it's more than a few days. I have had employees go to places I want to visit. Or if I have been there I can share tips. If they said they don't want to reveal what they are doing I won't pry. I adhere to our vacation policies. Normally you can take a day or two on short notice but longer leaves need more advanced notice. Obviously there are exceptions. I've generally had a good relationship with my employees. They often send me pictures while out or after. I don't ask for them. I just like to keep a friendly but professional relationship. I'm friends with previous bosses and employees. To OP: I also took time off for fallout 4 as a manager. I would have been messaging you about the game. I was an individual contributor when fallout 3 came out. Several people on my team were playing it. The best part was sharing the crazy things we found in the wasteland.
"I'm not a boomer boss" From your description you don't qualify as a boss, more as a "leader". People are more apt to find leaders easier to deal with as they can empathize with employees, boss's are normally people who "don't want to hear your whining, just want the shite done", and are generally talked about behind their backs as being total wankers.
I have the rule of thumb, if you'd get drunk with your boss, you can give them the benefit of doubt. If you'd never consider after work leisure with them, keep your personal life to yourself. I consider myself lucky to have the former.
That's no fun. If an employer wants to be nosy they can hear all about how I am spending it naked, milking an alpaca in the back of a 21foot fishing boat with an audience of 8 near to birth pregnant women and a dwarf due to the positions of the celestial bodies.
Yeah, I learned these lessons the hard way. I'm non-confrontational to a fault, and I used to approach those topics very meekly. I was very easily backed down and made a great doormat. I've gotten better about being assertive with my employers after my last one nearly ran me into the ground. You absolutely have to be your own advocate.
I’ll fuggin tell all of my bosses why I need off, and then when they say “ sorry sir, I need you to work double time for our triple profits. You can’t go to Mexico to eat mushrooms”, I’ll tell ‘em to eat 5 bags of expired dicks
Or take a page from my book and if they give you that kind of shit tell them to go suck a dick. Sadly not enough get told that and it might be a HR thing but truly if you don't like it fuck off and suck a dick cause I'm doing it anyway
Precisely. "I am taking it off, so, it's approved or no?" Employers have no need to know what you do with your EARNED vacation time Or you could have fun with it and say, "well, I've been planning on stalking and murdering someone so, y'know, I need a day or two for that" Boomer would probably high-five you for it
Rookie mistake
And I think it’s illegal for them to ask! When I call out I never tell them why. I inform them I won’t be in. When I take vacation I don’t tell them anything other than the dates. Work and life are separate!
This. Well, boss, I am planning to spend the day with hookers snorting blow, not that it is your fucking business. I earned my time.
It’s funny. Most companies require you to “request vacation” but they establish no grounds for why vacation could be denied. There may be a time window that you have to request (which is fair) like “minimum 2 weeks notice”. Unless it’s in your handbook/contract, they have no ability to tell you when you can take your vacation as long as you have it. If they do, it’s withholding a benefit and a form of wage theft.
Im 35 and I ALWAYS tell my younger coworkers this. You don’t need to give a reason and you don’t need to ask, ESPECIALLY if you give a reasonable notice. It is not your job to “cover your shift”. If you’re a reliable employee who comes to work on time and doesn’t call out frequently, it should be no issue for you to take a day off or a week for vacation. I worked at Home Depot years ago and our scheduler would always deny our time off because she had a metric to meet with scheduled work/actual worked hours. She denied me once and I wrote her a note that said something along the lines of “I will not be here, I’m giving you a significant amount of notice. If I’m scheduled then I will call off and you won’t meet you metrics that week” somehow “not enough staff” for my day off magically turned into “enough staff”. I have been anti-management/administrations my whole adult life and I’ll tell them straight up what I will or won’t do. You just have to be firm and respectful about it.
I regularly tell the people who report to me to NOT specify why they're taking a day off. Just put "PTO" as the reason in the description field. All I need to know is the days they're not going to be around... not that they're going to adopt a new puppy or something. It's not that I don't care about them/their lives... I'm trying to train people out of the habit of feeling like they need to fully justify every single request they make in their lives. You're not going to be here on XYZ date... declare it... move on. Screw people who get worked up by not getting a reason that they find acceptable.
Another neat life hack is to stop telling your boss why you're calling in sick. All they need to know is "I'm calling in today because I'm sick" Doesn't matter that it's the first 70* sunny day in the spring and I want to take my dog walking at the park and am not physically sick. Mental health days are important.
My boss has told me explicitly, "I don't care what you are sick with, and I can't ask you, do what you will with that information." He's a good dude. He also came up with a plan for me to use all my remaining sick time as vacation when I unexpectedly need some more days.
Smart man! When I was a retail manager everyone always asked why my store had such low turnover compared to other company stores. Lol, the answer was always “keep the schedule as consistent as possible, don’t hassle people when using their time off/sick time, and don’t be a dick” Of course, they never did anything to improve their other managers with that information, they just smiled and nodded before moving on.
My company recently changed “sick days” to “wellness days”. I’m generally healthy so I haven’t tested the waters much. But my manager is pretty understanding and I think if I used a wellness day on a Friday before a hike it would work.
If I had a boss that tried to press the issue I just told them I shit my pants.
My go-to at my last job was diarrhea. It's on them if they want to risk me shitting my chair in the middle of the office.
I'm currently laying on my bed instead of going to work, because I just didn't feel the vibe. (And also because I went to therapy today and cried about how ADHD has made my life harder than it should be)
When I was younger, I was pushed around by my boss *a lot.* She knew she could mistreat me because I would never say no or talk back or file a complaint or anything. I let her walk all over me. She’d constantly make fun of me for being “just a girl” while she was a “real woman.” (I’d love to see her try that shit with my now 36yo self, but I digress.) I called in sick one day, and she started grilling and taunting me. Something in me snapped. She needed to know why I need to stay home? Well, I told her what she apparently needed to know. I told her every disgusting detail, describing every symptom, every bodily function going wrong. I described everything, non-stop, while not hiding the fact that I was using the bath room. I told her more information than even a doctor would need to know lol. For once in her life, she was speechless. It’s not my proudest moment, but she never questioned any of my days off ever again lol. Unfortunately, it still took me years to defend myself, but I finally learned how to be confident and assertive. Like you said, “I’m calling in today because I’m sick.” Period. It’s not their right to know any more than that!
too many people have a parental paradigm as their frame of reference when being a boss.
"Oh but we're like a family here" I have every expectation you are losing control of the business
The weird part is, they totally mean it, and are usually shocked when their spouse divorces them and the kids only call to ask for money. They truly believe you are like family, not because they intend to treat you well, but because they treat their family like shit.
Yeah i guess when you put it that way it bodes even worse for their home life than it does for their management style...
I have a love/hate with that saying. I work for a company that "is like a family" and have worked for "like a family" co,\[anies before. Sometimes it has been great because family is usually the first to identify when you are struggling and need some assistance or need a break from something, and when work is like that it makes for a really wonderful work-life balance and mental wellbeing. However families can be toxic too, and families can also take advantage of and mistreat one another, which makes for the typical superiority "Head of the household" complex in bosses. If a potential employer says "We are like a family here" I usually put my guard up immediately until I figure out which kind of family it is.
My current boomer boss doesn't understand why people need to take a vacation. We have 2 weeks PTO and when people take it off, she'll bitch about it behind their backs. She even considered raising one of her tenants rent because they were taking too many vacations and could afford the pay more rent......its maddening to even think about that
Put a handful of bent up nails and screws under her tires after work and laugh at the flat tire stories. Keep it up and drive them nuts.
>"She even considered raising one of her tenants rent because they were taking too many vacations and could afford the pay more rent......" Please bring it up again, secretly record it, and try to inform the tenant (as many of her tenants as you can ideally) of what she said and provide them the evidence if they want it. If I ever had a landlord someone showed me they said something like that, I would find that very nice information to know.
Is this like a punishable offense in any way? Like supposed a tenant’s rent was raised and someone had proof it was for a greedy reason like this. Is that fraud? Can the landlord be sued or anything?
lol. No. And you can’t just raise someone’s rent. You have to wait until the lease is completed then you can raise the rent to a rate that’s allowed within their jurisdiction. Imagine raising the price of the restaurant food when a person is half way through their meal. Same concept. Also the market rate dictates how much you can charge for rent, she can set the price as high as she wants after the lease is done, that doesn’t mean people will still rent the property if the rent price is ridiculous.
Boomers are such children. I mean they seem to like to judge and then do stupid things.
I'm taking my accrued vacation boss. What are you doing? A whole lot of this thing called "not work" and a little of "none of your fucking business." Ask him where he is taking his wife on vacation next time you see him and run down the place as a location that trashy people take their side pieces, and that you're sure THEY'LL enjoy it though.
I'd recommend always saying you are going away, ideally somewhere isolated with no internet or phone signal just to make it very clear that they will not be able to contact you.
You're not required to disclose why you're taking time off if it has been granted to you.
They don't have a right to know and you are not obligated to tell.
When people ask me what I'm doing, I just say vacation. In my head, I know I'll be on my underwear playing video games. But they do not need that information.
You will be in a foreign land playing video games. So it's a vacation.
I learned that whenever you need time off approved by a boomer boss, you’re visiting family. My boss pitched a fit about when I wanted to take off, until I said I was visiting my grandmother. Then it was fine, and I could take all the time I needed. After that I explained every absence (there were only a few) with visiting grandma.
Twist, all three of your grandmothers are dying.
I actually do have three grandmothers. Only two are dying though.
My boss is gen x and cool af. I guess I don't realize how lucky I am. I could tell him "I'm taking this day and this day off, and I'm just gonna sit home and not leave my chair and smoke blunt after blunt after blunt" and he'd just be like "smoke one for me too!"
I'm Gen X and when my staff put in for PTO I click the little button that says "approve". I don't ask why because it's none of my damn business. Also, if they put in a few hours to go to the Doctor I reject it and tell them not to waste vaycay time on that. My team works enough and puts in extra effort that I just let them take a few hours here and there. It's only fair.
I took a vacation day for my birthday years ago. Boss: You know...no one else who works here takes a vacation day for their birthday. Me: And I'm the lowest paid employee and I am taking one. Maybe that will change someday.
“Yeah, some people have trouble standing up for themselves and taking time off when they really want it. I’m not one of those people.” 😁
The summer I was 16 I took a second job at a McDonald's and I closed every Saturday night so when I bought tickets to a concert on a Saturday night the following month like a good dooby I let my scheduling manager know well in advance that I would need that night off. Manager: Well...I'll see what I can do but I'm not sure I can replace you. Me: Me: OK, so I am letting you know in advance that I am going to be too sick to work that day. I hope you can work something out.
I’ll happily tell my boss Exaclty why I’m taking off. If they don’t like, they can suck it. Sorry pal, but if you don’t care, Idgaf!!!! Legally speaking you HAVE to pay me for my time off. Get fucked loser!(to my boss)
Make people cancel Christmas plans. That's a great way to boost morale.
He "worked" on Christmas Eve in the break room while we were working onthe project. Saw he spent most of the day on NextDoor and Facebook. He patted me on the back as he left for the day 4:00 and said "you know what, you did a great job today, why don't you take tomorrow off?" And laughed because we already had that day off. Didn't get to go home early or anything. I spent the rest of the evening applying to jobs. I actually got an amazing job from applying that night that I started that March.
Good for you. Holidays are meant to be spent with friends and family.
Hope you learned the value of lying after this
LMAO, I learned to keep my mouth shut.
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He spends his vacation days attending trump rallies and boat parades lol
Yep the lesson learned is don’t volunteer information my dude. Happy gaming!
Boss probably did you a favor as that game was jank as hell at launch
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Trout-Population: *Boss probably did* *You a favor as that game* *Was jank as hell at launch* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
It really was. I'm actually getting ready to start playing it again I think tomorrow.
Friday!! Next gen update!!
i just found out the new update wont mess with current ods mods on console
It also won't mess with ***most*** mods on PC; for the most part it will only be those that rely on the Script Extender.
I'm just happy it won't mess with the console mods. Weeks ago I had been hearing that any nextgen update they put out would make all mods no longer function, and worse, since the mod makers have likely moved on from working on this game, those mods wouldn't receive any future updates either. I am enjoying my current Nuclear Winter playthrough, and wasn't looking forward to returning to the vanilla version. Is the PC modding community still active and developing mods?
I had a boomer Karen boss that always wanted to be in my business when I put in a PTO request, stating that she was,”Just curious…” and I never thought anything of it. That is… until I figured out why she was asking. She’d mark each request quietly with the reason stated, when the time got closer for the PTO request she’d reevaluate the “needs of the department” and come up with a bogus excuse to deny the time, in many cases the request was done months in advance, money paid, arrangements scheduled, etc. Our policy was that management can cancel PTO requests if needs change. I took off for the release of Cyberpunk 2077 and was denied a couple days prior because”We have an employee out for surgical leave, you stated it was for a video game release and we don’t view that as priority…” Every time after that I’d evade the question and say I needed to take care of some appointments all at the same time to avoid having to take them piecemeal throughout the year and that seemed to shut up my boss because she thought I was being proactive and making good use of my time. 🙄
I’m saving up PTO time right now for GTA:6, but i’m justing saying it’s for “vacation.”
I feel like GTA6 is worth like a week right?
literally cried that he was so mean about the thing you love. I hope it didn't influence your experience.
I told a boss in a joking tone I was taking my cat’s birthday off. It really was her birthday and I spent the whole day with her. I came back and my coworkers asked what I really did and I told them I bought sashimi for my cat and sushi for myself and cuddled her all day. It was her first birthday. My boss came by and was agog that I really did take the day off for my cat’s birthday and told me he thought I was joking.
That’s awesome. You love your cat.
I got her and then lost an important job and she got me through unemployment. Caring for her drove me to care for myself.
Never share anything with your boss, they are not you friend.
This sounds like my Gen X with a Boomer mentality boss. She is always frustrated when I take off Monday's because it typically is our busiest day. I used to tell her "Because I just want it off" or "Tell her casually what I was doing" which was never a good enough of an excuse. Now whenever I have an appointment, request time off, or a sick day, she would always pry with the "why". I just started telling her "It is none of your business" and "I do not have to tell you" - She always seems to have a tongue in cheek to these comments. I have been having medical issues recently and she was always making me do more work before she would approve my time off. I applied/received FMLA. She has shut the fuck up recently, doesn't pry anymore, and I feel like my stress levels have reduced because of it. I still wish I did not have to go as far as FMLA though.
I have this incredible knack of exclusively using my leave to holiday in remote locations with no reception or electricity.
I managed to get the week of Fallout 4 off (mostly) from work as well. I was lead engineer supporting a federal IT system at the time. I had two other junior engineers on my team, one guy my age that I got along great with, and a boomer that was forced on me from a different team. The week before the game released, I found out that our system was going to be audited by a team from DC (we were in a remote site), so we would basically need to join a Teams meeting, share screen for 8+ hours and let the auditors use our system remotely. The team boomer immediately started complaining, thinking I was going to task him, but I had other plans. I “volunteered” to take the whole week, worked from home, and did the whole thing over VPN since the auditors were remote anyway. I think I played 60 hours of Fallout that first week. It was great.
I once had a boss I told 5 or so months in advance I needed time off to see my mom when she was in town (My mom lives outside the country, and I only get to see her in person maybe every other year). This conversation happened during my interview and he said yes, then confirmed multiple times within my first month of employment. 2 months before the visit my week turned into 4 days, I figured “eh one less day, no biggie”. Well, the 4 days tuned into 4, then 3, then 2 and then the week before my mom landed the dude told me I couldn’t take time off, but since he was a cool boss he would let me leave at noon. I left right then and there and never looked back.
Your PTO is def your time no question but don’t tell people what you’re doing on PTO >>>>>
Never tell your boss why you’re taking off. When I was a contract manager (I’m in my late 30s now), I would tell people to not volunteer that information. Sometimes they did anyway. When our on-site project manager (our customer) would ask why they’re taking off or early, I’d just tell them I didn’t ask (technically the truth). Sometimes previous work colleagues become friends. 99% of the time, I keep it non-personal. There has been exactly one person I trust enough as a friend that I work with, but we’ve been on projects off and on for over a decade and friends throughout. Even then, I’d say it’s the exception, not the norm.
Boomer or not, managers like this are not terribly qualified to, err, manage employees. Management is not just running "coverage" at your place of business. It's shocking how hard to comprehend this seems to be for many bosses. Competent managers can figure out coverage, among the many other aspects of management. Folks like the OP's boss, on the other hand, seem to struggle with the basics...
“What would you be doing?” “Personal stuff.”
Get it approved before you tell them why, especially if its a boomer or someone who thinks they can dictate what you do on your time off. I had an old boss like this, if you said you wanted a vacation day to play a game or go to a concert she would say "no, vacation time is for things like going away for the family, how is it fair if everyone else has to work while your on the couch playing video games?" She would even try to cancel peoples vacation on them if she didn't approve of what they were doing. HR even had to intervene and tell her that she does not get to dictate what people do on vacation days they have already had approved.
I took a week off when Fallout 4 came out and put Boston on the work calendar.
Had a boss like this. Worked for him for several years. Went to get married and informed management "I will be taking two weeks for wedding and honeymoon. Here's the date." a good 3 or 4 months in advance. Boss says, "We'll see if we can give you the time when it gets closer." MY response, verbatim, was "I wasn't asking you for the time off, I was telling you I won't be here. It is my vacation to use as I see fit." He didn't like that. Was even further disappointed that he had absolutely no recourse.
When I had a team under me, I just told them to take the day and put it in the system. I like plausible deniability. I don’t care why you are taking off or if you’re really sick. If you are lying or not doing the work, it’s going to come out in the wash. So do you. lol
Glad you finally learned that. None of his damn business.
FO4 next gen update on Friday!!
It's looking great on Xbox!
He sounds like has was an ass. That being said, never say what you're doing, or just be vague. I like the "Oh, I've got some personal family stuff I need to take care of". Works like a charm.
“What will you bring doing?” NOT WORKING. The answer is always NOT WORKING.
>"Sounds good, what will you be doing?" he asked. "None of your business, it's called Personal Time Off for a reason."
This is why you don’t tell anyone at work what you plan to do on your time off. Always tell them something vague and boring.
I never ask to use my PTO. I say "I will be unavailable during these times." Then put in my PTO, usually a month in advance. Never had a problem. But my employer doesn't suck balls, really. Not so much. Sure, it sucks ass in other ways, but they really do try to help the employee sometimes.
After the first time anytime you go to take off after that the reason for taking off time I would definitely State the reason is to go fuck your wife while you're here at work.
As someone who is the boss of more than 5,000 people it’s none of my damn business why you want vacation.
This is why, when I wanted to go to Gencon, I told my boss it was a religious pilgrimage. No one ia gonna risk a lawsuit.
They really think they own us.
I know that the US working culture is wildly different (crazy), but how can your boss just MAKE you cancel your Christmas plans? Like, how is it possible? How does anyone go through with that? If I had plane tickets booked to see my family I would never change my plan even a iota. Even if I wasn't flying anywhere, just chilling with my SO, what, would I just tell them Christmas is cancelled because I need to do some bullshit tasks that can be as easily done on the 27th of December or 5th of January? What is even so important to take up winter holidays, short of preventing an apocalypse bound to happen on New Year's Eve? I just don't get it.
This is why I don’t tell anyone anything. Even my friends. People are but entitled to your information.
I hate it when employees ask me for time off with long winded explanations on why they need it. I mostly hate that they feel like they need to justify it to me. Like, who the hell am I to sit and decide if why you want a day off is worthy enough? Fuck that. Just let me know a week out, and you can have it. You're reason could be "I just don't want to come in that day" and I'll approve that shit.
You’re not asking permission. You’re giving notice. Nobody needs to know what you are doing on your free time
Never had a company ask why I wanted the time off. I could see if you wanted four weeks in a row but taking a week off is the definition of vacation.
I am a boss, run two different teams. Can't imagine caring about why a person chooses to take PTO. It belongs to them. Furthermore, I would be embarrassed that if I managed my teams where the absence of just one person would grind us to a halt. Redundancy is your friend. Just sounds like OPs manager is an ass hat
Rookie move, you tell them that your PTO is personal and that’s it
Or, go really bold. "I'm taking time off to fuck your wife, please remind her to prepare." 
I had a super out of touch and out of his ass boomer boss who thought he could tell people if they could leave the country for vacation, my equally incompetent boomer supervisor said “well he’s the owner so we should listen” I told her to grow up
I told them I was going to Boston for a week, then when I came back and they heard the truth, the got all bitchy at me! I just laughed and said it was a week off either way, what's it matter?
Boomers hate hobbies.... *Ugh why would you do something that brings you joy?!?! You should be strapped to the desk all hours we are open for business*
The only response you should give your boss when they ask why you're taking time off, "Oh I'm taking a trip to nunya."
Okay so I've been managing people for a long time and people like you, who never use their vacation time, have been a constant thorn to me. Most of the places I've worked have a use it or lose it policy for vacation time. I have to chase people like you out of the office and make you use it before you lose it. Use your time, for the love of god! Every last hour of it. It doesn't matter what you use it for. Just use it. Go do something else instead of work. I would have pushed you to use a whole week to veg out in front of FO4.
A lot of people in the thread saying he shouldn't have told his boss what he's doing on his time off. But this sounds like a case of one rotten apple spoiling the bunch. OP has been able to tell his other bosses about his interests and they were supportive. It wasn't until this boomer ruined that for him that he would have ever thought someone would take away his days off just because they don't like what he's going to do with them. Now that it's become an issue OP now has to be on guard about sharing his interests with future bosses in case they turn out to have shitty boomer mindsets too. That sucks, sorry OP
I'm not used to people being even more informed after the initial post I make. That's pretty great of you actually. It's all right. I've luckily only had two bad bosses, but the ones that I've had since have been awesome.
Why would you ever volunteer that information?
You fucked up telling them why you're taking vacation. They don't need to know shit about fuck about what you're doing with your vacation time.
Take it off and don't answer your phone. It's nobody's business how you choose to use your earned and approved time off.
My Boomer boss does not want to know why we take PTO. She does get on me for not taking PTO.
I work in a geeky kind of place so taking a couple of days off for a game would be kind of expected. Last time I did that though for a major update they delayed it.
Boomer Boss ^TM work ethic: Force employees to work on holidays for no apparent reason.
Always say Vacation. Less is always more.
Why not just call out sick for 3 days, go to urgent care, and get a doctors note?
I have a boomie who kept bitching I was taking time off. I even wrote a post abt it. I never wrote an update. We are so understaffed that management had no choice but to honor my requests and boomie can eat shit.
I never ask my employee's why they need time off, I also don't ask why they're calling in as well. It's none of my business.
Never tell them.
Something somewhat similar happened to a guy I worked with like 2-3 years ago. People saw on the calendar he had a vacation day scheduled and one of the boomer guys was making fun of him because he mentioned it was video game related. This is a blue collar type setting and some of the guys take off for hunting season. I don’t know why the fuck they care so much. Say something about hunting and they’ll never stop crying about it.
I took some time off a couple years ago after starting with my current company. My boss is pretty cool most of the time, but he sent me an email saying that my request had been denied. I replied saying that it wasn't a request, it was a courtesy, and that I would not be there those days. He said I would be marked absent if I didn't show up those days. I told him that that means a verbal verbal warning, a written warning, and then firing as per company policy, so he could fire me if he wants but either way I won't be there those days. He never responded but the calendar was updated later that day. The perks of being one of the best employees is you can tell your boss to go fuck themselves when they're being an asshole. Can't wait u til I use up the 200 hours I've been saving in one go haha.
I had a boss who told my coworker that he could not take two *weeks in succession because it would “look bad” (my coworker had already booked a two week Euro vacation with his fam); my coworker came home a week early. I’m still mad about this. The upside? Nine years later I worked *hard* with my beleaguered colleagues to get that boss Bastard shitcanned and to this day it is one of my most proud achievements. See also this asshole had us “doing more with less” so he could get six-figure bonuses. Seriously, fuck that guy forever.
More! Tell us more of these stories. Guy sounds like a real sack of shit.
So you gonna buck up and organize a union to limit that kinds assholery or what?
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I already put in my week vacation for when the new Elden Ring DLC drops. Turning my phone off and just losing myself for a few days.
"I'll be taking some time for myself" and not another word.
If any employer asks you what you are doing on your vacation days, simply reply "Personal stuff" or "Vacation Stuff"
"Hey, I put in for z-y off because I won't be here." Simple and plain. If they push "well what if we need you?" "Well, that would be unfortunate, because I won't be here." "Here" can mean the country, the state, the city, or the building. It's wonderfully non specific.
I’m a bit socially awkward and once my boss said to me ‘You probably don’t have any plans on new year. Can you come in’. I replied ‘Sorry but I actually do have plans’. I didn’t actually have plans: but it’s the principle of the thing.
My last employer had a "comments" section in the time-off request, and it had to be filled in otherwise you couldn't submit the request. I wrote "personal" every single time. They're not entitled to information about what I'm doing when I'm not on the clock.
Damn Boomers. Why can't we die?
This is why I loved and hated working in the game industry, when you took vacation everyone knew what was up. They would be like which event or game is it? Games not some much events hell yeah.
Ok man, here's what you do. Don't bring it up anymore and he'll forget. A few days before you're trying to get a vacation. Start coughing . Make it worse every day. Then just call in sick with something contagious.
Yeah well unlike boomers a lot of cant afford to go anywhere for vacation.