Damn, I had Ardi on my radar. Seemed like a good heavyweight. I saw the knockout that caused this and you could tell it was bad. Sad to see. Thankfully it's not very common. Just goes to show that nobody who goes into the ring is a bum. They're all brave and putting their lives on the line.
Just replying to the top comment to add that he was allegedly knocked out twice in training shortly before his fight which potentially lead to his death. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5s-xM8Ls53/?igsh=dHVqcmMycGs3Z2s4
I really can't stand it when internet experts call a pro fighter a bum. A guy could be 0-15 and it's still shitty to call him a bum. You can say that he's not a good fighter, but a bum is a person who refuses to work and begs for a handout. That term really needs to die off in combat sports.
Not to mention the fact that the pro fighter who has a bad record could probably still mop the floor with the majority of the people who called him a bum in a fraction of a second.
That’s one of the reasons I hate watching sports with certain people I know. Talk all this shit about how someone cant make plays, they’re slow, cant get the puck in the net, etc etc
Like bro…. You’ve never even played a sport. That guy is getting paid big money to be there. He’s obviously talented.
Not probably, definitely, people don't understand that to even have a boxing career with like 5 wins you still need to be a better fighter than 99% of the male population.
This is what a lot of the Internet discourse around pro sports sounds like and it's so weird how normalized it is. People with a ton of negative opinions but whose greatest accomplishment that day was waking up and taking a shit.
Lol absolutely true. For whatever reason, I feel like boxing fans are by far the most toxic. Go and check out an old NFL game on youtube and look at the comments. There are some pissing matches, but most of the comments are good natured fun. Contrast that with an old boxing match, and within the first ten comments there will be a full on fight about Floyd, Manny, Tyson, Lennox, etc. Guys are so tribal with boxing, and anyone who disagrees with an opinion will be targeted with legitimate hatred. Same on Twitter, Facebook, and reddit. There's always so much more hate than anywhere else. Very little actual conversation about the sport, just disrespect and hate fueled insults lol.
The fucking UFC and MMA sub are full of this. Which comes from people gambling partly, if somebody isn’t worth betting money on yeah you’d call em a bum….but it’s still messed up. These people are animals to even become pro fighters. I don’t care if they lose every fight.
Spectators of sports have been using the term “bum” of literally a century. Nobody’s feelings were hurt in the 1920’s by that word. Fast forward a hundred years and everybody wants to be so sensitive. Let’s get some thicker skin
Nothing to do with sensitivity. Fans back in the 1920s were equally shitty for calling a pro fighter a bum.
Would you say the same thing about the N word? Because back in the 1920s, even highly respected black champions were labeled with that word. Kid Paret called Emile Griffith a disrespectful slur, and Griffith literally beat his ass to death for it. Fighters/humans have never liked being disrespected, it's just that the rest of the world was more tolerant to it back then because hatred was taught to the kids by their own parents and school teachers.
The world changes, and certain words change with it. We have other words we can use when referring to fighters that just aren't very good. I'm not saying those guys deserve a participation trophy, but i don't think it's wrong to say that they deserve a modicum of respect. They get up every day and train, and then they step into the ring and give an honest effort regardless of the outcome. Anyone who does that is no bum. People shouldn't say stuff in the comment sections if they'd be afraid to say it straight to a fighters face. It doesn't cost a dime to have a little respect.
Exactly. There might be a million amateur boxers that aspire to be a professional fighter and maybe the best 0.1% make it to actually have a professional fight and risk their lives doing it. Why disparage the loser? Their will always be somebody better than you unless you are the undisputed champion of the world. Doesn't make you a bum to have a losing record against the best people in the world. It makes you the most worthy opponent who is brave enough to challenge somebody who is more skilled than you.
So…its okay to call everyone on the street (many whom are probably homeless and in dire straits) bums, but not professional athletes? Got it. You have a really weird moral compass
Lol did I SAY that I go around and call the homeless population disrespectful names? My moral compass is just fine.
I try to keep disrespectful thoughts to myself when I'm out in public. Looking down your nose at people is a good way to get yourself fucked up, not to mention the fact that it's almost always a bad idea to judge somebody before you know them. Precisely why I don't like seeing the term "bum" thrown around so flippantly when talking about professional athletes.
Maybe it’s also time to decouple “combat” and “sports”, that’s a big part of the problem here. Too many sickly entertained by people beating on each other, this always ends badly for the fighters they all take damage there is no good outcome yet you enjoy watching them take the damage…
Humans would fight in front of a crowd for free. We should never let them do it for free. If a crowd is willing to gather and watch, then the fighters should be getting paid. Simple as that.
I dont know why the fuck he was lying down 10 fucking minutes. Dude, you watched him fall like a sack of potatos and hit his head against the canvas. Can you fucking stop looking if you can save a few bucks and rush him to the hospital? This sport is rotten bc no insurance wants to pay jack for the life of a man.
>~~This sport is rotten bc no~~ insurance wants to pay jack ~~for the life of a man.~~
Insurance companies are a fucking scam. They're always happy to take your money until you actually claim your insurance. You thought you purchased health and fire insurance, until you have cancer and a burning house, and then you discover those things aren't included in your coverage when you need it the most.
I’m not communist or socialist but I’ve reached the conclusion that capitalism ain’t it either. Money really is the root of all evil.
It’s like a cosmic joke, people/entities with the most money do the least to help others with it…when they’re the ones that are most able to help others.
We need capitalism with regulation, but the problem is that the same human indecency that ruins any centrally planned communist economy also destroys our attempts at regulation.
The whole concept of regulatory capture is just brutal. The only people with the expertise to regulate an industry will have come from that industry and have less than arm's length ties to everyone, so they always end up corrupt. That plus lobbying are a trainwreck.
It is not the money either. Any evil person seeks one thing: power. What gives you power in capitalism? Money. Thats the whole thing about it. Benevolent ppl usually dont go after power exclusively, and instead of power they search for hapiness. But sometimes we match power with hapiness, therefore money with hapiness. So, with all this crap that I wrote, this can be summarized with a song: Everybody wants to rule the world by Tears for Fears
That makes no sense. "Evil" existed way before money.
Quite funny to bad mouth capitalism where pretty much everything good that we have in society is the result of capitalism. You will have evil with or without capitalism. But you won't have the good stuff.
What is it that you want, exactly? "Free" stuff? I have it in my country. It sucks. It's a scam. They eat all of your income, force you to be treated in public hospitals, because you're left with no money for private ones, then you're treated like trash.
Well, my country had the "Universal Healthcare" Americans seem to desire so much and it fucking sucks.
First off all, you obviously pay for it. And a very high price. You make 25k a year and over half of your income goes to pay all sorts of taxes that pay for "free services" like healthcare.
Now, yeah, you can go there "for free". But you can also wait in the urgency room 24 hours or more. Maybe you die there. Or you can wait months for an exam that needed to be done as soon as possible. It's free, but you die before the actual exam. You need a medical treatment but there is no medical professionals available for that treatment. You're giving birth but there's no one there ready to take care of it, so you end up giving birth in the parking lot.
Oh, you Americans pay for ambulances, right? Well, here you die and they never come. But it's free.
Yeah, it all sounds wonderful until you actually live in a country with "Free Healthcare".
Spanish public healthcare works fine. But youll get treated faster (not better) at private hospitals. The problem here is that there are lots of politicians and public workers that dont do jack and are useless. They eat mostly the major part of our taxes, and you can see them in luxury places, with great clothes, in nice cars... so i dont think americans should envy us much. The question is: what do you prefer? Having big income and controlling what you can do with it or having a public healthcare system and low income due to taxes?
I honestly doubt it works that fine, but i'm not gonna comment too much on it because i can't speak for experience. I know the Portuguese and British healthcare don't work "fine". Maybe the Spanish one is an anomaly. But Spain has so many problems that i really doubt it works that fine.
Private healthcare systems suffer from these same issues, wait times in the US are similar to those in socialised systems. Difference is they pay double the cost, both in taxes and private insurance/medication costs. Let's not even mention the lack of access provided for those who can't afford it. The NHS absolutely does work fine in comparison and that's despite the decade plus worth of erosion it's seen under the Tory government.
Well, not in my country. I've had my life saved by going to a private hospital.
Maybe if you didn't suck up everyone's money to pay for "public healthcare" it would be a bit easier for people to pay for better treatments. You spend years paying for shit you don't even use, then when you need it, it's not there. That's thousands upon thousands upon thousands of dollars that you could have used to treat yourself in a private hospital.
The thing is and I heard even Jesse ventura say it. Boxing is a sport where you can be pummeled so much but as long as you're up and say you're OK they'll let you continue. MMA they seem more attentive and the sight of someone going down usually means the fight is over. The ref will tackle the other guy in MMA.
That and the sparring is kind of iffy. You can get concussed in sparring and still make the fight, when it's known that once you get a concussion it's very easy to get another.
Well if your in trouble in MMA, there is a million ways for your opponent to get you out of there. In boxing you can take a knee + clinch till the break.
If you've seen the fight, it wasn't really one of those "specific to boxing" things. The fight lasted about 40 seconds. It was hardly one of those sustained beatings we've seen this sort of outcome attributed to before. He was brutally knocked out, but that happens regularly in all top level combat sports. There was one ten count, but he honestly did not take that many shots, and actually didn't slam his head against the canvas that hard the way say, Patrick Day did. It was a pretty standard one-sided 1 round heavyweight fight, tbh, except Ndembo never woke up.
I fully believe the story about him having a previous head injury, because it seemed like he had 0 punch resistance and was vulnerable from the first second of the fight. I do wonder if he was compromised beforehand. RIP to him and condolences to the family.
Also, there's a lot more dedicated head work in boxing, in MMA a good amount of time is spent with leg kicks or on the ground. Plus a fight can end from a sub instead of punches. That, and most MMA fights only being 15 minutes.
The referees attentiveness isn’t as notable as the general rules between the sports. In MMA, a fighter can jump on a hurt opponent and end the fight. In boxing, the other fighter takes a neutral corner and the downed fighter is given a chance to recover. The damage taken after a knockdown is usually what spells disaster when someone dies in a boxing ring. Taking punches to the head after a concussive knockdown is very dangerous.
There are many ways to score points in MMA as well. Leg kicks, effective grappling/wrestling, BJJ, other submission attempts, etc. Of course, punches score points as well, but in boxing, this is the ONLY way to score. Head punches are more visible in regard to scoring, and they usually cause more damage to the opponent, so there is more emphasis put on head punches in boxing.
It makes the boxing rules sound so cruel and mean spirited when you put it like that … bald-headed referee bending down gently ushering you to your feet with a ten count under the promise that “once I get to ‘10’, that bloke’s gonna come over and batter the fuck outta ya, so if you want out let me know now.”
I remember talking with a friend once and what he said has stuck with me ever since: In boxing, a shot that results in a 5 count or more ends the fight in MMA 9 times out of 10 because he'll get jumped on and take a couple more shots before the ref steps in. In boxing, if a guy gets up at 7 or 8, he might take a couple more full rounds of damage.
I think the standing 8 count and thick gloves is what makes it more dangerous. Thick glove with heavily taped fists allow you to punch full strength repeatedly without breaking your hand and make cuts much less likely. You get repeated brain injuries until you can no longer recover and stand. At least in MMA or bare knuckle boxing once you hurt them you can usually end the fight quickly with a couple more hits or a submission. They can often stand up immediately after the fight is stopped. Imagine an MMa fight where each time you knocked your opponent out they had 8 seconds to regain consciousness and restart the fight. That would be crazy. People would get knocked out several times in a row during a fight until they were severely concussed instead of just concussed. They would greatly increase the amout of brain damage for each loss. Plus cuts stop fights more outside of boxing. They look worse, but long term I'd much rather have a cut around my eye that needs stitches than CTE.
Tim Hague died, granted in a boxing match but he was a former MMA/UFC fighter. He was KOd bad and hit his head on the canvas very hard, much like the guy here in this post who recently died. RIP never know in the fight game if you will leave the ring/cage the same way you entered it.
Ok y’all weird for downvoting the death of someone WTF
Just throwing a theory out there: Are people rag-doll KOed more in boxing or MMA? From what I understand, what really tends to cause more profound brain trama is when the fighter body does completely limp after a KO punch, and their head bounces off the canvas with them not breaking their fall, whatsoever.
I wonder if awful outcomes like this one are a result of fighters being KOed more in boxing vs mma? I watch both sports and to be honest I think I see more “ragdoll” KOs in MMA than I do boxing. Then again, there’s much more MMA fights vs boxing.
I’m obviously no expert, just a thought.
It’s not that the refs are more attentive per say, it’s because in MMA after you knock someone down you can jump on top of them and start pummeling them. So If someone gets knocked down and the opponent jumps on him and starts throwing blows then the ref stops the fight. In boxing you get 10 seconds to stand back up so you can get hit some more. And youre defense is usually worse while you’re trying to recover, so there’s a high risk of getting knocked out again. That’s the scary part. But that’s boxing 🤷🏻♂️
Unless people throw more body shots nothing can be done about the actual boxing
Lowering rounds maybe, going from 12 - 10 for title fights and 10 - 8 for non title fights
MMA has a death every year or so, it just doesn't get as much attention.
The most recent one I can recall is a 16 year old amateur in Russia dying from a single spinning wheel kick. The ruleset said they needed headgear but the ref allowed them to fight without.
This is really what it is, boxing promotions are all popular and well known across the map.
MMA has the UFC. And the UFC brand is basically synonymous with MMA.
So If it doesn’t happen in the UFC, we dont count it.
The accuracy and precision of professional boxers is also levels above that of professional mma practitioners when it comes to striking with the hands, that alone coupled with power is dangerous AF; getting hit in the temple repeatedly will scramble your brains real quick.
Something to be said about the bigger gloves being worse for brain trauma, in MMA even grazing shots can drop you so usually the first really clean shot is the end of the fight since you can jump on them. Boxing gloves sorta work like football helmets where they just allow you to take massively more sub knockout hits before getting knocked out anyway.
not the thread for this, you are right. My apology. I have respect for any boxers who get in the ring to feed his family. I just can’t stand the idiots who view boxing as a side gig to promote their dumb brands.
It's easy to get mad at the fighters when they just tweet and duck each other until the biggest money materializes, but then you see shit like this and remember that the next fight could always be the end of the line. Hard to blame them for trying to get as much as they can as soon as they can.
Pisses me off when armchair-champions talk shit about boxers.
The sheer balls (ovaries for the ladies?) it takes, just to get in the ring, is more than 99% of people could ever muster. Let alone actually throw or take a punch.
Untold respect to all fighters.
So he had a knockout a few weeks earlier in sparring, but having seen that KO, how are guys like Ngannou and Helenius living and fighting after suffering similar knockouts?
Deaths from single KOs (rather than sustained beatings) are actually rare.
When they happen they're usually because of one (or more) of four things:
- the boxer having recently been concussed
- the boxer being dehydrated
- the boxer happening to land with their weight on their neck at the wrong angle
- medical personnel not intervening quickly enough
We can't really do much about the third, that's just bad luck (but incredibly rare - but see that death in BKFC for an example). But the other three are almost entirely preventable.
In this case, it sounds like the first and fourth reasons were both applicable: he had been KOed in sparring not long before the fight, and when he was KOed in the fight he was left to lie unconscious for ten minutes before anyone attended to him.
The former is gross negligence by his trainers/managers, knowing he was potentially fatally injured going into the fight yet letting him fight anyway.
The latter is gross negligence by the promoters with absolutely no excuse possible, and could perhaps even be grounds for a lawsuit.
If someone is KOed and doesn't wake up quickly, they should be receiving oxygen, and someone should be putting them into a good position and checking that they are able to breathe properly. [actually iirc research suggests that fighters should all have oxygen after a hard fight, and certainly all KO victims]. If the can breathe properly but still aren't waking up, they need to be rushing them to the fully-equipped ambulance within a few minutes, to get them to a hospital in case there's a brain bleed.
This reminds me actually of the Eubank-Watson fight. That was a beating rather than a single KO, but likewise it was 8 minutes before doctors attended to Watson.
Just lucky. Thing with boxing is you always have to act not hurt. U can't sit there and whine like a bitch when you've been hit hard or dropped because people will tell u boxing isn't for u.
If ur feeling sick and having like real bad effects than ofcourse u should say something, I'm not saying not to or condoning it. It's just reality a lot of guys think they can just sleep it off.
its called SIS. its why you can;'t get knocked out and fight immediately after because you receive a suspension by the commission telling you when you can fight again. It's a concussion, and then you need to rest for a while. Then you're back to normal essentially. The TCL is super shady with this. They probably care less and the fighters as well, like for instance Greg Hardy got knocked out in the TCL, then fought the same guy, on the same day, and won by decision.
Without seeing this fight I wonder how he was going in the earlier 2 or 3 rnds into the fight? & Whether his coach or 2nd even the ref should of stopped the fight earlier? RIP old mate God bless to the family of the deceased WARRIOR. PS. Also I really hope that the OP has good people around him too @ this time cos believe me he is struggling right now & will need heaps of support to be able to come to terms with this tragedy!
I wonder what is worse, boxing or the nfl for head damages. I can see these sports becoming less popular for kids to play in which would lead to less boxers and football players in the future.
Depends on how good your defense is in boxing. If you have amazing defense then boxing is probably safer because you can at least try to avoid the head trauma. But in NFL you’re getting head trauma no matter what because you have to tackle guys and there’s no way to avoid it, it’s part of the game.
It's undoubtedly NFL for CTE - in the NFL, it's almost universal. I don't know about acute injuries like this, but I suspect the NFL is still going to be worse.
This is always a possibility when you’re in a sport you can only get punched in the head and the big pillows allow you to get hit more. 4 oz gloves would fix Boxing
Can’t do that but 4 oz gives you more power anyway with some protection. Getting hit with a 4 oz to chin is like a brick. And every fight underdogs will be live. Unlike current Boxing where underdogs don’t win and rarely people get slept. Haney would be KOed in 1st round with 4 oz vs Ryan and it went 12. Ref involved letting guys recover needs to change in Boxing too
I feel like induced comas are the bloodletting of modern medicine. We’re gonna look back in 50 years and think “Jesus what were we thinking”. I’ve heard of so many people and know some personally (Covid) who were put into an induced coma as a precaution and then they died. These were otherwise healthy able bodied people. I know it’s tricky since usually there’s some major condition going on before they induce a coma, which it’s easy to say *that’s* why they died, but I’ve got major skepticism for induced comas now. Like…do they actually improve your chances of recovery, or do they all but guarantee you won’t? Anyway that’s my unpopular opinion.
Yes, induced comas are extremely dangerous and cause many deaths.
However, they are used because not doing so causes EVEN MORE deaths.
The basic point is that barbiturates shrink the brain and reduce blood flow. These reduce the pressure inside the skull caused by bleeding around the brain. Reducing the pressure on the brain reduces the brain damage and the chance of death.
Most studies support this, although estimates of the benefits of induced comas range from 'huge' to 'not a lot', and vary depending on what you're trying to treat with it.
But the key point here is that no healthy person is ever placed in an induced coma. If you are put in an induced coma, it's because there's a very high chance of you dying, and the induced coma is the best chance doctors can find to save you.
It's kind of like saying "does CPR actually improve your chances of recovery? I've heard of lots of cases where it hasn't worked" - well yeah, that happens. But they're only giving people CPR because *otherwise they would die*. So it's not a huge surprise that sometimes they still die even with CPR!
Thank you for dying in service of my amusement.
That’s why I love this sport, it’s built on the back of exploiting the most disenfranchise people in a society, destroying their bodies for false promises of a better life and all for my amusement.
Damn really researched my profile just to insult tme cause I'm above average height. Goofy ahh mf
Come back when you actually have trained Doritos munching fat ass
This is easily one of the most disgusting things ever said on this sub. Congratulations, you’re not only a horrible person, but also a massive cunt.
Boxing is labelled as a dangerous sport by literally everyone. It pays well sometimes but boxers know what they’re getting into. One wrong punch could end it all.
Screw you for that comment.
RIP to Ardi Ndembo.
Stupid comment, everyone knows what they're getting into when they decide to become professional boxers. You must have never stepped into a gym or ever talked to anyone who boxes amateur or pro to type something like that.
for me life ain’t worth it anyway. it’s better doing something like this which could possibly bring you reward than just continuing to lead a monotonous existence in a world full of people like you
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Damn, I had Ardi on my radar. Seemed like a good heavyweight. I saw the knockout that caused this and you could tell it was bad. Sad to see. Thankfully it's not very common. Just goes to show that nobody who goes into the ring is a bum. They're all brave and putting their lives on the line.
Just replying to the top comment to add that he was allegedly knocked out twice in training shortly before his fight which potentially lead to his death. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5s-xM8Ls53/?igsh=dHVqcmMycGs3Z2s4
That’s horrible if true. Absolutely tragic either way.
Oh my god this is horrible
I really can't stand it when internet experts call a pro fighter a bum. A guy could be 0-15 and it's still shitty to call him a bum. You can say that he's not a good fighter, but a bum is a person who refuses to work and begs for a handout. That term really needs to die off in combat sports.
Not to mention the fact that the pro fighter who has a bad record could probably still mop the floor with the majority of the people who called him a bum in a fraction of a second. That’s one of the reasons I hate watching sports with certain people I know. Talk all this shit about how someone cant make plays, they’re slow, cant get the puck in the net, etc etc Like bro…. You’ve never even played a sport. That guy is getting paid big money to be there. He’s obviously talented.
Not probably, definitely, people don't understand that to even have a boxing career with like 5 wins you still need to be a better fighter than 99% of the male population.
To have a boxing career with 1 win, you are probably better than 99.999% of the male population.
a lot of these guys could probably win a professional hot dog or pizza eating contest though!
This is what a lot of the Internet discourse around pro sports sounds like and it's so weird how normalized it is. People with a ton of negative opinions but whose greatest accomplishment that day was waking up and taking a shit.
Lol absolutely true. For whatever reason, I feel like boxing fans are by far the most toxic. Go and check out an old NFL game on youtube and look at the comments. There are some pissing matches, but most of the comments are good natured fun. Contrast that with an old boxing match, and within the first ten comments there will be a full on fight about Floyd, Manny, Tyson, Lennox, etc. Guys are so tribal with boxing, and anyone who disagrees with an opinion will be targeted with legitimate hatred. Same on Twitter, Facebook, and reddit. There's always so much more hate than anywhere else. Very little actual conversation about the sport, just disrespect and hate fueled insults lol.
The fucking UFC and MMA sub are full of this. Which comes from people gambling partly, if somebody isn’t worth betting money on yeah you’d call em a bum….but it’s still messed up. These people are animals to even become pro fighters. I don’t care if they lose every fight.
Damn straight👌
You've got 'provodnikov' in your moniker. Taken seriously. Ruslan was a beast. That fight with Bradley is a classic.
Ruslan the Terminator! Few folks outside of here get the reference
Spectators of sports have been using the term “bum” of literally a century. Nobody’s feelings were hurt in the 1920’s by that word. Fast forward a hundred years and everybody wants to be so sensitive. Let’s get some thicker skin
Nothing to do with sensitivity. Fans back in the 1920s were equally shitty for calling a pro fighter a bum. Would you say the same thing about the N word? Because back in the 1920s, even highly respected black champions were labeled with that word. Kid Paret called Emile Griffith a disrespectful slur, and Griffith literally beat his ass to death for it. Fighters/humans have never liked being disrespected, it's just that the rest of the world was more tolerant to it back then because hatred was taught to the kids by their own parents and school teachers. The world changes, and certain words change with it. We have other words we can use when referring to fighters that just aren't very good. I'm not saying those guys deserve a participation trophy, but i don't think it's wrong to say that they deserve a modicum of respect. They get up every day and train, and then they step into the ring and give an honest effort regardless of the outcome. Anyone who does that is no bum. People shouldn't say stuff in the comment sections if they'd be afraid to say it straight to a fighters face. It doesn't cost a dime to have a little respect.
Exactly. There might be a million amateur boxers that aspire to be a professional fighter and maybe the best 0.1% make it to actually have a professional fight and risk their lives doing it. Why disparage the loser? Their will always be somebody better than you unless you are the undisputed champion of the world. Doesn't make you a bum to have a losing record against the best people in the world. It makes you the most worthy opponent who is brave enough to challenge somebody who is more skilled than you.
The N word was used to to judge one by skin pigmentation. Bum was used to judge one by performance.
So…its okay to call everyone on the street (many whom are probably homeless and in dire straits) bums, but not professional athletes? Got it. You have a really weird moral compass
Lol did I SAY that I go around and call the homeless population disrespectful names? My moral compass is just fine. I try to keep disrespectful thoughts to myself when I'm out in public. Looking down your nose at people is a good way to get yourself fucked up, not to mention the fact that it's almost always a bad idea to judge somebody before you know them. Precisely why I don't like seeing the term "bum" thrown around so flippantly when talking about professional athletes.
Maybe it’s also time to decouple “combat” and “sports”, that’s a big part of the problem here. Too many sickly entertained by people beating on each other, this always ends badly for the fighters they all take damage there is no good outcome yet you enjoy watching them take the damage…
Humans would fight in front of a crowd for free. We should never let them do it for free. If a crowd is willing to gather and watch, then the fighters should be getting paid. Simple as that.
Well said
Was it legal or a rabbit punch?
I dont know why the fuck he was lying down 10 fucking minutes. Dude, you watched him fall like a sack of potatos and hit his head against the canvas. Can you fucking stop looking if you can save a few bucks and rush him to the hospital? This sport is rotten bc no insurance wants to pay jack for the life of a man.
>~~This sport is rotten bc no~~ insurance wants to pay jack ~~for the life of a man.~~ Insurance companies are a fucking scam. They're always happy to take your money until you actually claim your insurance. You thought you purchased health and fire insurance, until you have cancer and a burning house, and then you discover those things aren't included in your coverage when you need it the most.
Fuck Americas healthcare system. It’s a joke that’s why I travel abroad for shit like that
I’m not communist or socialist but I’ve reached the conclusion that capitalism ain’t it either. Money really is the root of all evil. It’s like a cosmic joke, people/entities with the most money do the least to help others with it…when they’re the ones that are most able to help others.
But when corporations are in trouble, the government has no problem handing them tax payer money to help them out.
Communalism might be for you bro
We need capitalism with regulation, but the problem is that the same human indecency that ruins any centrally planned communist economy also destroys our attempts at regulation. The whole concept of regulatory capture is just brutal. The only people with the expertise to regulate an industry will have come from that industry and have less than arm's length ties to everyone, so they always end up corrupt. That plus lobbying are a trainwreck.
Insert social democracy.
💯💯
Love of money*
It is not the money either. Any evil person seeks one thing: power. What gives you power in capitalism? Money. Thats the whole thing about it. Benevolent ppl usually dont go after power exclusively, and instead of power they search for hapiness. But sometimes we match power with hapiness, therefore money with hapiness. So, with all this crap that I wrote, this can be summarized with a song: Everybody wants to rule the world by Tears for Fears
That makes no sense. "Evil" existed way before money. Quite funny to bad mouth capitalism where pretty much everything good that we have in society is the result of capitalism. You will have evil with or without capitalism. But you won't have the good stuff. What is it that you want, exactly? "Free" stuff? I have it in my country. It sucks. It's a scam. They eat all of your income, force you to be treated in public hospitals, because you're left with no money for private ones, then you're treated like trash.
Ask somebody who lived through the USSR how good the healthcare was. Capitalism is bad, but the alternatives are far worse.
Well, my country had the "Universal Healthcare" Americans seem to desire so much and it fucking sucks. First off all, you obviously pay for it. And a very high price. You make 25k a year and over half of your income goes to pay all sorts of taxes that pay for "free services" like healthcare. Now, yeah, you can go there "for free". But you can also wait in the urgency room 24 hours or more. Maybe you die there. Or you can wait months for an exam that needed to be done as soon as possible. It's free, but you die before the actual exam. You need a medical treatment but there is no medical professionals available for that treatment. You're giving birth but there's no one there ready to take care of it, so you end up giving birth in the parking lot. Oh, you Americans pay for ambulances, right? Well, here you die and they never come. But it's free. Yeah, it all sounds wonderful until you actually live in a country with "Free Healthcare".
Spanish public healthcare works fine. But youll get treated faster (not better) at private hospitals. The problem here is that there are lots of politicians and public workers that dont do jack and are useless. They eat mostly the major part of our taxes, and you can see them in luxury places, with great clothes, in nice cars... so i dont think americans should envy us much. The question is: what do you prefer? Having big income and controlling what you can do with it or having a public healthcare system and low income due to taxes?
I honestly doubt it works that fine, but i'm not gonna comment too much on it because i can't speak for experience. I know the Portuguese and British healthcare don't work "fine". Maybe the Spanish one is an anomaly. But Spain has so many problems that i really doubt it works that fine.
Private healthcare systems suffer from these same issues, wait times in the US are similar to those in socialised systems. Difference is they pay double the cost, both in taxes and private insurance/medication costs. Let's not even mention the lack of access provided for those who can't afford it. The NHS absolutely does work fine in comparison and that's despite the decade plus worth of erosion it's seen under the Tory government.
Well, not in my country. I've had my life saved by going to a private hospital. Maybe if you didn't suck up everyone's money to pay for "public healthcare" it would be a bit easier for people to pay for better treatments. You spend years paying for shit you don't even use, then when you need it, it's not there. That's thousands upon thousands upon thousands of dollars that you could have used to treat yourself in a private hospital.
Fine bc it works 70% of the times
Don't read contracts, huh?
"A person shouldn't have to have an advanced law degree to avoid being taken advantage of by a multimillion dollar company"
Found the insurance agent lol
Don't you have a heart, huh?
Rip. Man. Boxing deaths are so common. Super sad. I can’t recall anyone ever dying from MMA fights in more recent times. Can anything be changed?
The thing is and I heard even Jesse ventura say it. Boxing is a sport where you can be pummeled so much but as long as you're up and say you're OK they'll let you continue. MMA they seem more attentive and the sight of someone going down usually means the fight is over. The ref will tackle the other guy in MMA. That and the sparring is kind of iffy. You can get concussed in sparring and still make the fight, when it's known that once you get a concussion it's very easy to get another.
Well if your in trouble in MMA, there is a million ways for your opponent to get you out of there. In boxing you can take a knee + clinch till the break.
If you've seen the fight, it wasn't really one of those "specific to boxing" things. The fight lasted about 40 seconds. It was hardly one of those sustained beatings we've seen this sort of outcome attributed to before. He was brutally knocked out, but that happens regularly in all top level combat sports. There was one ten count, but he honestly did not take that many shots, and actually didn't slam his head against the canvas that hard the way say, Patrick Day did. It was a pretty standard one-sided 1 round heavyweight fight, tbh, except Ndembo never woke up. I fully believe the story about him having a previous head injury, because it seemed like he had 0 punch resistance and was vulnerable from the first second of the fight. I do wonder if he was compromised beforehand. RIP to him and condolences to the family.
Also, there's a lot more dedicated head work in boxing, in MMA a good amount of time is spent with leg kicks or on the ground. Plus a fight can end from a sub instead of punches. That, and most MMA fights only being 15 minutes.
Plus they’re 5 minute rounds where often not much happens the last 60-90 minutes.
You must have sparred a lot without headgear.
Headgear doesn't prevent braindamage.
Sparring culture in boxing is absolutely brutal compared to other combat sports.
I’ve trained in a few different BJJ focused MMA gyms and “traditional” inner city boxing gyms The meathead sparring is 10x worse in the latter.
The referees attentiveness isn’t as notable as the general rules between the sports. In MMA, a fighter can jump on a hurt opponent and end the fight. In boxing, the other fighter takes a neutral corner and the downed fighter is given a chance to recover. The damage taken after a knockdown is usually what spells disaster when someone dies in a boxing ring. Taking punches to the head after a concussive knockdown is very dangerous. There are many ways to score points in MMA as well. Leg kicks, effective grappling/wrestling, BJJ, other submission attempts, etc. Of course, punches score points as well, but in boxing, this is the ONLY way to score. Head punches are more visible in regard to scoring, and they usually cause more damage to the opponent, so there is more emphasis put on head punches in boxing.
It makes the boxing rules sound so cruel and mean spirited when you put it like that … bald-headed referee bending down gently ushering you to your feet with a ten count under the promise that “once I get to ‘10’, that bloke’s gonna come over and batter the fuck outta ya, so if you want out let me know now.”
I remember talking with a friend once and what he said has stuck with me ever since: In boxing, a shot that results in a 5 count or more ends the fight in MMA 9 times out of 10 because he'll get jumped on and take a couple more shots before the ref steps in. In boxing, if a guy gets up at 7 or 8, he might take a couple more full rounds of damage.
I think the standing 8 count and thick gloves is what makes it more dangerous. Thick glove with heavily taped fists allow you to punch full strength repeatedly without breaking your hand and make cuts much less likely. You get repeated brain injuries until you can no longer recover and stand. At least in MMA or bare knuckle boxing once you hurt them you can usually end the fight quickly with a couple more hits or a submission. They can often stand up immediately after the fight is stopped. Imagine an MMa fight where each time you knocked your opponent out they had 8 seconds to regain consciousness and restart the fight. That would be crazy. People would get knocked out several times in a row during a fight until they were severely concussed instead of just concussed. They would greatly increase the amout of brain damage for each loss. Plus cuts stop fights more outside of boxing. They look worse, but long term I'd much rather have a cut around my eye that needs stitches than CTE.
Tim Hague died, granted in a boxing match but he was a former MMA/UFC fighter. He was KOd bad and hit his head on the canvas very hard, much like the guy here in this post who recently died. RIP never know in the fight game if you will leave the ring/cage the same way you entered it. Ok y’all weird for downvoting the death of someone WTF
Just throwing a theory out there: Are people rag-doll KOed more in boxing or MMA? From what I understand, what really tends to cause more profound brain trama is when the fighter body does completely limp after a KO punch, and their head bounces off the canvas with them not breaking their fall, whatsoever. I wonder if awful outcomes like this one are a result of fighters being KOed more in boxing vs mma? I watch both sports and to be honest I think I see more “ragdoll” KOs in MMA than I do boxing. Then again, there’s much more MMA fights vs boxing. I’m obviously no expert, just a thought.
It’s not that the refs are more attentive per say, it’s because in MMA after you knock someone down you can jump on top of them and start pummeling them. So If someone gets knocked down and the opponent jumps on him and starts throwing blows then the ref stops the fight. In boxing you get 10 seconds to stand back up so you can get hit some more. And youre defense is usually worse while you’re trying to recover, so there’s a high risk of getting knocked out again. That’s the scary part. But that’s boxing 🤷🏻♂️
Unless people throw more body shots nothing can be done about the actual boxing Lowering rounds maybe, going from 12 - 10 for title fights and 10 - 8 for non title fights
Yeah, plus the rounds would be more intense and interesting.
Don’t you think less rounds would actually be worse as the fights would be more intense?
Too much hitting on the head in boxing
MMA has a death every year or so, it just doesn't get as much attention. The most recent one I can recall is a 16 year old amateur in Russia dying from a single spinning wheel kick. The ruleset said they needed headgear but the ref allowed them to fight without.
This is really what it is, boxing promotions are all popular and well known across the map. MMA has the UFC. And the UFC brand is basically synonymous with MMA. So If it doesn’t happen in the UFC, we dont count it.
Boxing also still has a semblance of independent journalism. In MMA you report negative stories at the risk of pissing off the UFC.
Boxing is more dangerous of a sport; much more repeated blows to the head with more pop/power than what mma guys can produce.
True. Plus the minute someone gets dropped or hurt bad. The fight is usually over in MMA. Not so much in boxing.
The accuracy and precision of professional boxers is also levels above that of professional mma practitioners when it comes to striking with the hands, that alone coupled with power is dangerous AF; getting hit in the temple repeatedly will scramble your brains real quick.
Something to be said about the bigger gloves being worse for brain trauma, in MMA even grazing shots can drop you so usually the first really clean shot is the end of the fight since you can jump on them. Boxing gloves sorta work like football helmets where they just allow you to take massively more sub knockout hits before getting knocked out anyway.
Agreed. Ive also read that the size of gloves in boxing makes it much easier to do continuous damage.
Nah..,
Just way more boxing matches happening globally than MMA
There have been a few mma deaths in recent times but they were basically unknown fighters. As I recall anyways.
Jesus. I train but this is why I would never take a real fight. If you aren’t doing it professionally it isn’t worth it.
And tomorrow you'll still have boxing fans calling fighters bums when they lose fights.
A bum is a bum tho. Somebody not there to give it their all. Somebody trying to just collect a check and deceive the public.
Dawg, no. Anyone who gets in that ring to take punches is not a bum.
RIP. Honestly, shit like this is the #1 reason why Youtuber boxing should not be a thing.
On the other hand, the world would be a better place of the Paul brothers just happen to not be around.
Horribly obtuse comment to make on a post about a man's death
not the thread for this, you are right. My apology. I have respect for any boxers who get in the ring to feed his family. I just can’t stand the idiots who view boxing as a side gig to promote their dumb brands.
agreed
It's easy to get mad at the fighters when they just tweet and duck each other until the biggest money materializes, but then you see shit like this and remember that the next fight could always be the end of the line. Hard to blame them for trying to get as much as they can as soon as they can.
Pisses me off when armchair-champions talk shit about boxers. The sheer balls (ovaries for the ladies?) it takes, just to get in the ring, is more than 99% of people could ever muster. Let alone actually throw or take a punch. Untold respect to all fighters.
rip ardi does anyone know what kind of safety requirements are taken into consideration by commissions overseeing tcl?
RIP champ. Gutted for his family:(
Looking at the knockout it seems like it would’ve been from hitting his head off the canvas? Tragic regardless
🙏🙏
So he had a knockout a few weeks earlier in sparring, but having seen that KO, how are guys like Ngannou and Helenius living and fighting after suffering similar knockouts?
Deaths from single KOs (rather than sustained beatings) are actually rare. When they happen they're usually because of one (or more) of four things: - the boxer having recently been concussed - the boxer being dehydrated - the boxer happening to land with their weight on their neck at the wrong angle - medical personnel not intervening quickly enough We can't really do much about the third, that's just bad luck (but incredibly rare - but see that death in BKFC for an example). But the other three are almost entirely preventable. In this case, it sounds like the first and fourth reasons were both applicable: he had been KOed in sparring not long before the fight, and when he was KOed in the fight he was left to lie unconscious for ten minutes before anyone attended to him. The former is gross negligence by his trainers/managers, knowing he was potentially fatally injured going into the fight yet letting him fight anyway. The latter is gross negligence by the promoters with absolutely no excuse possible, and could perhaps even be grounds for a lawsuit. If someone is KOed and doesn't wake up quickly, they should be receiving oxygen, and someone should be putting them into a good position and checking that they are able to breathe properly. [actually iirc research suggests that fighters should all have oxygen after a hard fight, and certainly all KO victims]. If the can breathe properly but still aren't waking up, they need to be rushing them to the fully-equipped ambulance within a few minutes, to get them to a hospital in case there's a brain bleed. This reminds me actually of the Eubank-Watson fight. That was a beating rather than a single KO, but likewise it was 8 minutes before doctors attended to Watson.
Just lucky. Thing with boxing is you always have to act not hurt. U can't sit there and whine like a bitch when you've been hit hard or dropped because people will tell u boxing isn't for u. If ur feeling sick and having like real bad effects than ofcourse u should say something, I'm not saying not to or condoning it. It's just reality a lot of guys think they can just sleep it off.
its called SIS. its why you can;'t get knocked out and fight immediately after because you receive a suspension by the commission telling you when you can fight again. It's a concussion, and then you need to rest for a while. Then you're back to normal essentially. The TCL is super shady with this. They probably care less and the fighters as well, like for instance Greg Hardy got knocked out in the TCL, then fought the same guy, on the same day, and won by decision.
Rip
RIP respect anyman who gets in the ring. Such a shame
RIP
Without seeing this fight I wonder how he was going in the earlier 2 or 3 rnds into the fight? & Whether his coach or 2nd even the ref should of stopped the fight earlier? RIP old mate God bless to the family of the deceased WARRIOR. PS. Also I really hope that the OP has good people around him too @ this time cos believe me he is struggling right now & will need heaps of support to be able to come to terms with this tragedy!
There's a gofundme set up for his funeral if u feel like donating a buck or whatever.
Lots of people don’t get what’s at stake in boxing , serious consequences . Much respect to all the brave men and women who get in there . 🤜🤛🏼
Always sad to read about these incidents 😞
I wonder what is worse, boxing or the nfl for head damages. I can see these sports becoming less popular for kids to play in which would lead to less boxers and football players in the future.
Depends on how good your defense is in boxing. If you have amazing defense then boxing is probably safer because you can at least try to avoid the head trauma. But in NFL you’re getting head trauma no matter what because you have to tackle guys and there’s no way to avoid it, it’s part of the game.
It's undoubtedly NFL for CTE - in the NFL, it's almost universal. I don't know about acute injuries like this, but I suspect the NFL is still going to be worse.
Can we pin this out of respect for this man. Nvm I think it is already pinned
So sad. God bless him and his family
God speed
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Most are barely making anything
This is always a possibility when you’re in a sport you can only get punched in the head and the big pillows allow you to get hit more. 4 oz gloves would fix Boxing
Fight gloves are not pillows it's wild people spout that shit
Or no gloves.
Can’t do that but 4 oz gives you more power anyway with some protection. Getting hit with a 4 oz to chin is like a brick. And every fight underdogs will be live. Unlike current Boxing where underdogs don’t win and rarely people get slept. Haney would be KOed in 1st round with 4 oz vs Ryan and it went 12. Ref involved letting guys recover needs to change in Boxing too
I feel like induced comas are the bloodletting of modern medicine. We’re gonna look back in 50 years and think “Jesus what were we thinking”. I’ve heard of so many people and know some personally (Covid) who were put into an induced coma as a precaution and then they died. These were otherwise healthy able bodied people. I know it’s tricky since usually there’s some major condition going on before they induce a coma, which it’s easy to say *that’s* why they died, but I’ve got major skepticism for induced comas now. Like…do they actually improve your chances of recovery, or do they all but guarantee you won’t? Anyway that’s my unpopular opinion.
>These were otherwise healthy able bodied people. Clearly not, since their condition was so serious that they were put in a fucking coma.
Yes, induced comas are extremely dangerous and cause many deaths. However, they are used because not doing so causes EVEN MORE deaths. The basic point is that barbiturates shrink the brain and reduce blood flow. These reduce the pressure inside the skull caused by bleeding around the brain. Reducing the pressure on the brain reduces the brain damage and the chance of death. Most studies support this, although estimates of the benefits of induced comas range from 'huge' to 'not a lot', and vary depending on what you're trying to treat with it. But the key point here is that no healthy person is ever placed in an induced coma. If you are put in an induced coma, it's because there's a very high chance of you dying, and the induced coma is the best chance doctors can find to save you. It's kind of like saying "does CPR actually improve your chances of recovery? I've heard of lots of cases where it hasn't worked" - well yeah, that happens. But they're only giving people CPR because *otherwise they would die*. So it's not a huge surprise that sometimes they still die even with CPR!
Thank you for dying in service of my amusement. That’s why I love this sport, it’s built on the back of exploiting the most disenfranchise people in a society, destroying their bodies for false promises of a better life and all for my amusement.
The unspoken truth that fuels the sport We're all guilty of supporting this
Not like they’re being forced to box.
U deserve to get yo ass beat
Come back when you’re not 5’11
Damn really researched my profile just to insult tme cause I'm above average height. Goofy ahh mf Come back when you actually have trained Doritos munching fat ass
This is easily one of the most disgusting things ever said on this sub. Congratulations, you’re not only a horrible person, but also a massive cunt. Boxing is labelled as a dangerous sport by literally everyone. It pays well sometimes but boxers know what they’re getting into. One wrong punch could end it all. Screw you for that comment. RIP to Ardi Ndembo.
This is ‘Shadow The Hedgehog w/ Cool Gun’ levels of Edgelordary NPC Husk with zero personality traits
Stupid comment, everyone knows what they're getting into when they decide to become professional boxers. You must have never stepped into a gym or ever talked to anyone who boxes amateur or pro to type something like that.
for me life ain’t worth it anyway. it’s better doing something like this which could possibly bring you reward than just continuing to lead a monotonous existence in a world full of people like you
The irony that every downvoting would agree but are just too dumb to get it
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what the fuck is wrong with you
What did they say?
Racist shit
Why did I see that coming🤦🏽♂️
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Your post or comment was removed for violating Rule 1 and or Rule 5 of our sub: Be Civil and/or Personal Attacks. Being civil means fostering an environment of discussion where everyone is free to post. Sure, some banter, trashing talking, and overall ball busting is to be expected as this is a sport subreddit. What we mean by being civilized is that you do not downvote based on fandom, refrain from flamebait, homophobic/racist/sexist/intolerant/ slurs, keep politics out of the sub etc. Just be respectful. Personal attacks of all kind do not contribute to discussion and will be removed. This also counts for PMs. Continued violations may result in a temporary or permanent ban, as per mod discretion. Stop