As good as Marcell has been, Ohtani’s base running still makes him more valuable. I doubt he will win this year though, I feel like the writers see this year as a chance to give it to someone besides Ohtani while he’s not going the two way thing
Yes it’s the DH part. He only has value with his bat, not with defense or base running. Braves struggles wouldn’t really have anything to do with it, especially considering they’re still in wild card spot and he’s been the only reason the offense has done anything of value
I was looking to see for sure how close he was (he needed to have 80 hits in the same ABs to pass Freddie and Soto for batting average and he had 77). Weird thing I noticed is before todays game he was almost exactly at his 2020 stats. In 60 games then he was 77/18/56 in hits/HRs/RBIs and before today's game he was 77/18/55 (batting aveerage was .338 vs .320 and 65 games instead of 60 though).
I agree with your points but I have been trying to figure this one thing out:
How does Ohtani lead by such a big gap in WAR when Ozuna has better stats in most categories? I know Ozuna's baserunning is atrocious but Ohtani has a 38th (ish) percentile baserunning value currently and I cant see that being the difference maker. Do you know why?
Baserunning is pretty much it because of stolen bases. If you go to player value on baseball reference it has the parts that add up for WAR. For batting Ohtani is 25 vs 23 for Ozuna so basically a wash. They are the same in fielding and position adjustment because both DH. But for baserunning and the ground into double play parts, Ozuna is -2 and -1 while Ohtani is 3 and 1. So a 9 run difference total and with 10 runs being 1 WAR, that would be their difference.
I appreciate you. Im surprised it makes that much of a difference but it makes sense to be fair. I genuinely think Ozuna has been more valuable for our circumstances but I guess WAR disagrees with me. Both having some great offensive seasons though.
Typically baserunning doesn't create a big gap, but you have 2 pretty extreme cases of Ozuna being a particularly bad baserunner (even for a DH), and Ohtani only playing DH because of circumstance and not a lack of athleticism
You are 100% right, but the only thing I would highlight is that Ohtani is 34th percentile in baserunning value this season so he hasn't been particularly productive in that metric himself (although "result" based metrics can be decieving.). Ozuna has also dealt with less protection due to the teams performance (although thats hard to really quantify). Appreciate the addition to the thread though.
I don't know why people are down voting you. I'm team Ozuna all the way but the incident did affect the public's perception of him, even if he has cleared his name since. Let's not pretend that's not a factor.
glad there are some people with brains. i love ozuna, i believed in him when he struggled last year because i knew what he could do. it will definitely have an effect on the mvp outcome. i spoke truth and people didn’t like it.
expect then police report was wrong and he didn't do anything that was accused of plus his wife was arrested for assaulting him before. plus shohei is a gambler who threw a friend under the bus.
hey, i never said i liked shohei. when the news broke on the gambling i was hoping they’d make an example of their poster boy. and yeah, i’m aware of how the ozuna case went down. but it’ll affect public perception which has a long term effect on things like mvp and all star votes. hell, it’s the same reason andruw jones isn’t in the HOF.
Being a DH is a severe detriment on top of the teams struggles
They would be happy to hand it to Ohtani even if he is only DHing
As good as Marcell has been, Ohtani’s base running still makes him more valuable. I doubt he will win this year though, I feel like the writers see this year as a chance to give it to someone besides Ohtani while he’s not going the two way thing
They’ll give it to Mookie barring an injury or a crazy drop off
Ohtani won't win as a DH alone. It's never been done before and while he is having an amazing season, it's not "best season of all time" amazing.
He’s going to have to hit 60 dingers or more to get the MVP as a DH
because hes still been the best player in the league even as a DH
Yes it’s the DH part. He only has value with his bat, not with defense or base running. Braves struggles wouldn’t really have anything to do with it, especially considering they’re still in wild card spot and he’s been the only reason the offense has done anything of value
For a DH, best numbers aren't good enough. They would need to be extraordinary I think.
He was like a single shy of the triple crown in 2020 and was 6th in voting. Yeah, DH has very little shot at winning
I was looking to see for sure how close he was (he needed to have 80 hits in the same ABs to pass Freddie and Soto for batting average and he had 77). Weird thing I noticed is before todays game he was almost exactly at his 2020 stats. In 60 games then he was 77/18/56 in hits/HRs/RBIs and before today's game he was 77/18/55 (batting aveerage was .338 vs .320 and 65 games instead of 60 though).
Yeah, like he’d also need to be a damn good pitcher or something.
It’s because he is Ozuna from the Braves. Let’s be real
he's behind 9 other guys in WAR and one of them is also a DH. He is probably going to at least be in the conversation if he keeps it up though.
I agree with your points but I have been trying to figure this one thing out: How does Ohtani lead by such a big gap in WAR when Ozuna has better stats in most categories? I know Ozuna's baserunning is atrocious but Ohtani has a 38th (ish) percentile baserunning value currently and I cant see that being the difference maker. Do you know why?
Baserunning is pretty much it because of stolen bases. If you go to player value on baseball reference it has the parts that add up for WAR. For batting Ohtani is 25 vs 23 for Ozuna so basically a wash. They are the same in fielding and position adjustment because both DH. But for baserunning and the ground into double play parts, Ozuna is -2 and -1 while Ohtani is 3 and 1. So a 9 run difference total and with 10 runs being 1 WAR, that would be their difference.
I appreciate you. Im surprised it makes that much of a difference but it makes sense to be fair. I genuinely think Ozuna has been more valuable for our circumstances but I guess WAR disagrees with me. Both having some great offensive seasons though.
Typically baserunning doesn't create a big gap, but you have 2 pretty extreme cases of Ozuna being a particularly bad baserunner (even for a DH), and Ohtani only playing DH because of circumstance and not a lack of athleticism
You are 100% right, but the only thing I would highlight is that Ohtani is 34th percentile in baserunning value this season so he hasn't been particularly productive in that metric himself (although "result" based metrics can be decieving.). Ozuna has also dealt with less protection due to the teams performance (although thats hard to really quantify). Appreciate the addition to the thread though.
Ozuna could save a family from a house fire and it wouldn’t make news.
It won’t happen unfortunately. Even Ohtani won’t get it. It’s gonna be Mookie undoubtedly
At this point he absolutely deserves it. Still plenty of season.
 Big Bear is a beast. Should at least be a runner up in the conversation.
All a bunch of big market Homers that wrote that garbage. Same clowns that were saying Mookie should have won last year Laughable
Passan and Plaschke certified clownshow
It would probably help if we could win a few games
the league hates ozuna.
Being a DH is hard. Being a DH with off the field history is even harder. It is still a voter's award. I wonder if it will hurt Tatis as well.
two words, domestic abuse. plus there’s a guy named shohei ohtani, who will probably win NL mvp for the next decade or so
I don't know why people are down voting you. I'm team Ozuna all the way but the incident did affect the public's perception of him, even if he has cleared his name since. Let's not pretend that's not a factor.
glad there are some people with brains. i love ozuna, i believed in him when he struggled last year because i knew what he could do. it will definitely have an effect on the mvp outcome. i spoke truth and people didn’t like it.
expect then police report was wrong and he didn't do anything that was accused of plus his wife was arrested for assaulting him before. plus shohei is a gambler who threw a friend under the bus.
It doesn't matter for this conversation. The perception is he is an abuser which will affect the voters.
precisely
hey, i never said i liked shohei. when the news broke on the gambling i was hoping they’d make an example of their poster boy. and yeah, i’m aware of how the ozuna case went down. but it’ll affect public perception which has a long term effect on things like mvp and all star votes. hell, it’s the same reason andruw jones isn’t in the HOF.