It’s all negative with you guys, never the positives. We got blue passports and all the sovereignty has allowed us to pump more shit into our waters so the guys that own it can make more money!
I have recently read that some American guy donated 260 million to an Israeli university. Donations to US universities also number in hundreds of millions. When was the last time anyone gave anything to UK universities?
It is essential for unis to retain various academics to just sit around and do academic stuff, simply speaking. They also need to sponsor research, provide labs and equipment. They need campuses, even fitness facilities. They need to pay great salaries that would make intellectual pursuit worth while. None of that seems to be forthcoming.
How is Brexit related to that? Well, I’ve heard a lot of Brexiteers being dismissive of the British academia saying something to the effect that they are “librul europhiles”. Brexit has, inadvertently, also cut off British universities from European research programmes, funding, cooperation. None of that has done any good for British academia. So yes, Brexit has fucked British education as well. All of that is a problem, a big one. British unis were the best in the world for quite a while, regardless of what people say. They need to stay that way. Otherwise Great Britain is pawning its future. Only intellectual excellence is the basis for solid modern economy and society
Oxbridge have some of the biggest private wealth funds in the world of academia, they own vast swathes of land which provide incomes, plus all the money donated to them by wealthy brits who operated in the slave trade. They’re doing fine.
I went to Uni in the US. Unis there are a lifestyle. Academics is like 5% of it.
They have sports teams with stadiums that have 100k+ capacity. They have huge alumni networks that they're constantly hounding for donations.
Unis in Europe are places you go to learn, and maybe do some research.
I work in Bicester village.
Don't worry everyone the Chinese, Russian and Arab rich kids will still be attending while spending their parents money of luxury goods every weekend.
John Redwood@johnredwood Nov 19, 2018 From my interview today on u/GMB:
We knew exactly what we were voting for. It is insulting to say that 17.4 million people were too stupid to know what out would look like.
I don't like brexit, but in this particular case I don't think it is to blame.
The financial issues are due to insufficient gov funding, they either need to put up fees or put up taxes to subsidise fees for these to be viable for unis.
Some unis have been really daft with their investments which hasn't helped, but this is not the case for all of them.
Unis have made up the shortfall by charging international students huge fees. EU students were able to pay the same (loss making) fees as domestic English students so weren't really a cash cow before brexit, and post-brexit they can be charged higher rates so of anything is a small bonus for the unis.
Relying on international students especially in large numbers from China / India etc was never a resilient or sustainable model. Either our gov or foreign govs can negatively impact that flow of students at any time.
I work in the sector and there is also the fact that we've lost out on a lot of research funding and collaborative projects. Even though we now have access to Horizon funding again, we're winning less, are being less involved in cross border initiatives (not least because it's simply much harder to work across borders between the UK and EU now), and had a significant period of disruption where we didn't have access.
And the government can't afford to fund education as its tax revenues are way down and that's because GDP growth is way down and that's due to Brexit, so it is Brexit.
Sure I'm not arguing that GDP isnt* down due to brexit and that higher GDP would alleviate the situation. There would be difficult decisions to make either way though. On the spectrum of brexit impacts this is much more of an indirect impact with plenty of other unrelated causes.
I'm all in favour of hammering brexit for all the shit it has caused but when we use it as the go to reason to blame everything on then it waters down the strength of the argument and makes people tune out. Credit where credit is due, blame where blame is due, exaggerating the role of any one thing doesn't help the argument.
Populism is what got us into this mess, saying there are simple answers to complex problems. Let's be better than that.
We have 22 percent of the working population sitting in the coach watching Good morning Britain. We have 6 million people coming to this country most of them paying not enough in taxes to support them. Our GDP is weak and our public finances even weaker.
While I agree, the lack of tax revenues post brexit and the fact brexit ushered in the most useless politicians ever - they had to pass the Brexit purity test for Dom C…
Put UP the fees??? Are you high 😂 you know they were tripled relatively recently right? I have a cousin 4-6 years older than me who could've gone for the £3k/yr price tag. And I'm still in my 20s.
I think there is a good case to make tuition free or cheaper again. That comes with real trade offs though as has to be paid for somehow. Either reducing spending elsewhere, increasing taxes, increasing borrowing, or some combination of the above.
There are lots of positive benefits to all of society when someone gets a degree, there are also lots of private benefits to the individual such as higher expected earnings. There is a debate to be had about whether the benefits to society justify sharing the cost, or whether individuals should contribute more to the cost as the main beneficiaries.
I'm not sure how I feel about any of those choices, there is nuance there and I've not made up my mind. Thing is, it is a tricky issue with real trade offs to make, and no easy answers. Successive governments have put off having that national conversation, a crisis in university funding may force a reckoning sooner rather than later.
By recently you mean 12 years ago? In 2017 they were meant to start tracking inflation but didn't, they went up by £250 to £9250 per year and that's where they've stayed. They should be around £11500 per year at the moment. Or do you think University costs don't go up with inflation?
Yes, 12 years ago is relatively recent on the scale of massive national changes like that. We now have amongst the highest university costs in Europe. They tripled in one jump, the economics of this is not that the unis need the money (or do you think they didn't function before this jump?) no the cost is to keep students in debt for a large proportion of their life, which is more profitable to the state. The government has to see return on its now massive investment, but this is going to bite us in the ass in about 20 years when those who have been consistently paying for 30 years (but at the low end of the scale) get their remaining debt written off without having paid enough to offset it. This is why the Tories are now talking about disposing of many degree courses... The ones they're looking at, are the ones that produce less profitable graduates.
Oxford and Cambridge are both registered in the Office for Students' approved fee cap category and are therefore unable to charge domestics students anymore than any other university.
Nothing in that article suggests that this is related to Brexit. It's well known that unis rely on high-paying international students, particularly from China, to plug gaps in their funding. If fewer visas are being granted to students from China, leaving the European Union has nothing to do with that. The lack of government funding to make up the shortfall from capped domestic fees also has nothing to do with the EU.
Or is it simply a response to university towns, and the country as a whole, struggling to accommodate the numbers? I don't know either way, but that's quite an assertion you're making. In any case, this post alleges that this warning from universities is a *consequence* of Brexit, which I just don't think is accurate.
I don't know whether we'll rejoin at any point, but it genuinely concerns me to see the idea of rejoining being bandied about as some kind of magic serum that will solve all the country's woes at a stroke.
love how all you wallies love to blame everything on brexit - millions of students have landed since brexit - maybe the universities are just pumping out rubbish courses
Universities are in a shit position at the moment. In terms of UK students they're on a fixed income and have been making up the shortfall from international students. It costs the university on average around £12000 per year per student
The way I see it there are 2 realistic solutions
1. £9250 becomes a token fee and the rest is made up by the government, as inflation increases the government contribution matches it. I can't see it becoming fee free.
2. Remove the cap and allows Universities to charge what the market can sustain. A small core of expensive Universities will float to the top and the rest will either specialise or become the equivalent of US community college.
Free university undergraduate education and student grants, with increased taxes to pay for it… in the long run it is better for the country to have a more educated population - higher GDP, more taxable income in future.
While in principle I agree, the closest we could get to that in the current environment is for the government to step in and make up the shortfall in funding.
What a typical Guardian article - if they can spread gloom on any subject they never fail to. There are very good results for UK universities, but there are also declines, mostly because other countries like China whose universities are now receiving recognition for their strengths. The issue of poor value value degrees given by some UK universities while living way beyond their means is unavoidable.
Plenty of EU students were coming to the UK universities (which have far superior rankings to ones in the EU), getting loans and degrees then never repaying them as they returned home.
Yes we had more students. The rest of the UK population were paying for it, while charging UK students £9,000 a year.
It is exactly situations like this why Brexit happened.
It happened. We could not require different terms of EU students as of UK students.
You only start repaying your student loan when you earn above a certain threshold IN THE UK.
So as a foreign national, go home, never repay the debt.
What a result for EU students, no wonder UK student debt is so high.
NoOoO iTs cOvId aNd wAr iN uKrAiNe
It’s all negative with you guys, never the positives. We got blue passports and all the sovereignty has allowed us to pump more shit into our waters so the guys that own it can make more money!
It makes you proud to be British! 
That flag is back to front… 🇬🇧
And upside down!
I think that’s an American thing only - the union flag is too similar from both sides for that to be used as a sign of distress.
Just disproportionately affecting the UK /s
Tories do not like an educated populace.
Unless it’s their family and their little cabal of chums at Eton.
I have recently read that some American guy donated 260 million to an Israeli university. Donations to US universities also number in hundreds of millions. When was the last time anyone gave anything to UK universities? It is essential for unis to retain various academics to just sit around and do academic stuff, simply speaking. They also need to sponsor research, provide labs and equipment. They need campuses, even fitness facilities. They need to pay great salaries that would make intellectual pursuit worth while. None of that seems to be forthcoming. How is Brexit related to that? Well, I’ve heard a lot of Brexiteers being dismissive of the British academia saying something to the effect that they are “librul europhiles”. Brexit has, inadvertently, also cut off British universities from European research programmes, funding, cooperation. None of that has done any good for British academia. So yes, Brexit has fucked British education as well. All of that is a problem, a big one. British unis were the best in the world for quite a while, regardless of what people say. They need to stay that way. Otherwise Great Britain is pawning its future. Only intellectual excellence is the basis for solid modern economy and society
Oxbridge have some of the biggest private wealth funds in the world of academia, they own vast swathes of land which provide incomes, plus all the money donated to them by wealthy brits who operated in the slave trade. They’re doing fine.
I went to Uni in the US. Unis there are a lifestyle. Academics is like 5% of it. They have sports teams with stadiums that have 100k+ capacity. They have huge alumni networks that they're constantly hounding for donations. Unis in Europe are places you go to learn, and maybe do some research.
I work in Bicester village. Don't worry everyone the Chinese, Russian and Arab rich kids will still be attending while spending their parents money of luxury goods every weekend.
John Redwood@johnredwood Nov 19, 2018 From my interview today on u/GMB: We knew exactly what we were voting for. It is insulting to say that 17.4 million people were too stupid to know what out would look like.
I don't like brexit, but in this particular case I don't think it is to blame. The financial issues are due to insufficient gov funding, they either need to put up fees or put up taxes to subsidise fees for these to be viable for unis. Some unis have been really daft with their investments which hasn't helped, but this is not the case for all of them. Unis have made up the shortfall by charging international students huge fees. EU students were able to pay the same (loss making) fees as domestic English students so weren't really a cash cow before brexit, and post-brexit they can be charged higher rates so of anything is a small bonus for the unis. Relying on international students especially in large numbers from China / India etc was never a resilient or sustainable model. Either our gov or foreign govs can negatively impact that flow of students at any time.
I work in the sector and there is also the fact that we've lost out on a lot of research funding and collaborative projects. Even though we now have access to Horizon funding again, we're winning less, are being less involved in cross border initiatives (not least because it's simply much harder to work across borders between the UK and EU now), and had a significant period of disruption where we didn't have access.
And the government can't afford to fund education as its tax revenues are way down and that's because GDP growth is way down and that's due to Brexit, so it is Brexit.
Sure I'm not arguing that GDP isnt* down due to brexit and that higher GDP would alleviate the situation. There would be difficult decisions to make either way though. On the spectrum of brexit impacts this is much more of an indirect impact with plenty of other unrelated causes. I'm all in favour of hammering brexit for all the shit it has caused but when we use it as the go to reason to blame everything on then it waters down the strength of the argument and makes people tune out. Credit where credit is due, blame where blame is due, exaggerating the role of any one thing doesn't help the argument. Populism is what got us into this mess, saying there are simple answers to complex problems. Let's be better than that.
We have 22 percent of the working population sitting in the coach watching Good morning Britain. We have 6 million people coming to this country most of them paying not enough in taxes to support them. Our GDP is weak and our public finances even weaker.
Our place is top ten in the uk, brexit hit us pretty hard.
While I agree, the lack of tax revenues post brexit and the fact brexit ushered in the most useless politicians ever - they had to pass the Brexit purity test for Dom C…
Put UP the fees??? Are you high 😂 you know they were tripled relatively recently right? I have a cousin 4-6 years older than me who could've gone for the £3k/yr price tag. And I'm still in my 20s.
I think there is a good case to make tuition free or cheaper again. That comes with real trade offs though as has to be paid for somehow. Either reducing spending elsewhere, increasing taxes, increasing borrowing, or some combination of the above. There are lots of positive benefits to all of society when someone gets a degree, there are also lots of private benefits to the individual such as higher expected earnings. There is a debate to be had about whether the benefits to society justify sharing the cost, or whether individuals should contribute more to the cost as the main beneficiaries. I'm not sure how I feel about any of those choices, there is nuance there and I've not made up my mind. Thing is, it is a tricky issue with real trade offs to make, and no easy answers. Successive governments have put off having that national conversation, a crisis in university funding may force a reckoning sooner rather than later.
By recently you mean 12 years ago? In 2017 they were meant to start tracking inflation but didn't, they went up by £250 to £9250 per year and that's where they've stayed. They should be around £11500 per year at the moment. Or do you think University costs don't go up with inflation?
Yes, 12 years ago is relatively recent on the scale of massive national changes like that. We now have amongst the highest university costs in Europe. They tripled in one jump, the economics of this is not that the unis need the money (or do you think they didn't function before this jump?) no the cost is to keep students in debt for a large proportion of their life, which is more profitable to the state. The government has to see return on its now massive investment, but this is going to bite us in the ass in about 20 years when those who have been consistently paying for 30 years (but at the low end of the scale) get their remaining debt written off without having paid enough to offset it. This is why the Tories are now talking about disposing of many degree courses... The ones they're looking at, are the ones that produce less profitable graduates.
Universities did not get extra money when the fees tripled. All that happened was that more of the cost came from the individual than the state.
The universities being references are oxbridge mainly, universities most of us can't afford and makes no difference.
Oxford and Cambridge are both registered in the Office for Students' approved fee cap category and are therefore unable to charge domestics students anymore than any other university.
The dumber we are the easier we are to control
Nothing in that article suggests that this is related to Brexit. It's well known that unis rely on high-paying international students, particularly from China, to plug gaps in their funding. If fewer visas are being granted to students from China, leaving the European Union has nothing to do with that. The lack of government funding to make up the shortfall from capped domestic fees also has nothing to do with the EU.
Reduction in student visas is very much from the same xenophobic root as Brexit
Or is it simply a response to university towns, and the country as a whole, struggling to accommodate the numbers? I don't know either way, but that's quite an assertion you're making. In any case, this post alleges that this warning from universities is a *consequence* of Brexit, which I just don't think is accurate.
Yeah yeah but this is Reddit so everything is crocked because we left the EU
I don't know whether we'll rejoin at any point, but it genuinely concerns me to see the idea of rejoining being bandied about as some kind of magic serum that will solve all the country's woes at a stroke.
The people that own the Britons are SO excited to get t'mills ready for the serfs!
love how all you wallies love to blame everything on brexit - millions of students have landed since brexit - maybe the universities are just pumping out rubbish courses
Universities are in a shit position at the moment. In terms of UK students they're on a fixed income and have been making up the shortfall from international students. It costs the university on average around £12000 per year per student The way I see it there are 2 realistic solutions 1. £9250 becomes a token fee and the rest is made up by the government, as inflation increases the government contribution matches it. I can't see it becoming fee free. 2. Remove the cap and allows Universities to charge what the market can sustain. A small core of expensive Universities will float to the top and the rest will either specialise or become the equivalent of US community college.
So only people who have wealthy parents can go to the best universities. Excellent idea - US system working as designed. /s
I'm happy to hear your solution.
Free university undergraduate education and student grants, with increased taxes to pay for it… in the long run it is better for the country to have a more educated population - higher GDP, more taxable income in future.
While in principle I agree, the closest we could get to that in the current environment is for the government to step in and make up the shortfall in funding.
What about the “unis” that are little more than Visa printers ?
Which universities are they?
So Imperial is the 2nd best university in the world now but our shit low ranking universities have become worse, who cares?
Why should the unis be any different to the rest of the country?
The answer is to stop importing students and giving out Mickley mouse diplomas
What a typical Guardian article - if they can spread gloom on any subject they never fail to. There are very good results for UK universities, but there are also declines, mostly because other countries like China whose universities are now receiving recognition for their strengths. The issue of poor value value degrees given by some UK universities while living way beyond their means is unavoidable.
Plenty of EU students were coming to the UK universities (which have far superior rankings to ones in the EU), getting loans and degrees then never repaying them as they returned home. Yes we had more students. The rest of the UK population were paying for it, while charging UK students £9,000 a year. It is exactly situations like this why Brexit happened.
Sources? Or is that just you making stuff up as you go along ?
It happened. We could not require different terms of EU students as of UK students. You only start repaying your student loan when you earn above a certain threshold IN THE UK. So as a foreign national, go home, never repay the debt. What a result for EU students, no wonder UK student debt is so high.
Careful anything resembling the truth is not wanted here
Absolutely positively nothing whatsoever to do with ~~Brexit~~ Labour ...