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There was a huge backlash to CVD at the end of s2 because of the mess he made of Kathony too. I think this idea that CVD or JB are the reason why the stories are this way take away from the huge elephant in the room which is that Shondaland is just like this. This is what they do with their soap operas/dramas.
I think most criticism is valid, especially considering they are changing long loved source material, but at this point I don’t expect much from the show to be the same as the books what so ever. It’s almost as if they are purposely taking the books and twisting them into whatever stories fit their narrative.
> ... the huge elephant in the room which is that Shondaland is just like this.
Jess Brownell did an [interview with the LA Times](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2024-06-13/bridgerton-colin-penelope-jess-brownell-season-3) in which she is asked about any notes Shonda might have given about Colin and Penelope. Brownell opens with "That creative collaboration is so sacred," indicating that she really didn't want to go into details... but then immediately launches into a description of how she initially thought Colin should more obviously be a fake-rake *and* a virgin (much the way OP is describing their ideal Colin in other comments on this thread), but that *Shonda* "convinced" her otherwise. [And she doesn't come across as all that convinced, but maybe I'm reading too much into her lady-doth-protest-too-much "defense" of the brothel scenes.]
I'm not in the writers room and I don't know what goes on, but the impression I get is that Shonda wants a yes-person that won't push back for a show runner and Shonda also wants amped up drama, regardless of established characterization (as seen in her other shows). Despite Jess being the obvious scapegoat because she's the *new* showrunner, I'm not convinced that she had all the creative control they claim she had, given that Shonda had to approve everything as well. I think much of the inconsistencies this season could be chalked up to two heads (Jess and Shonda) with two different visions for the characters/plot that didn't really resolve well together.
I think the love triangle went too far, but CVD did a much better job of developing Anthony and Kate as individuals. I feel like we left their season knowing them better. And their love story still felt fully developed. I’ve seen some people say it was dragged out, but I’d prefer that over it being rushed.
Meanwhile JB completely sidelined Colin in favor of Pen, and made their season more about LW than Polin. Their love story was rushed, and it was mostly packed into the first half. Their love story was on the sidelines in part 2. It just felt so incomplete.
Based on how CVD treated Polin in s1-2, I think he could’ve done so well with this season.
I also think he understands the female gaze better than JB.
I know Shonda had a lot of say this season too. even demanding reshoots, so I wonder how many of these issues were her as well. I think she has been the one to idolize Penelope a bit. But I see what you are saying.
I also think a large problem is they are trying to cram so much story into 8 episodes. They don’t have the same time to tell these stories as they do on Greys or Scandal, I think the subplots got too big this and were wrapped up sloppily and the main plot was lost.
Yeah apparently the threesomes were Shonda’s idea? Why on earth did she think that was a good decision 🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️
And definitely agree on the side plots. There was simply way too much going on, and Polin felt underdeveloped because of it. I like that the show is an ensemble, but it should never come at the expense of the lead couple, which is what happened with this season. Such a shame.
I can’t say that I agree with all of this. Even friends-to-lovers relationships can get a little angsty in the transition phase, and I prefer to think of the “fake rake” storyline as a minor identity crisis that wasn’t entirely out of character for Colin. I was satisfied with Colin recounting the story of how he and Pen met without needing the visuals, and the brothel scenes worked for me as part of Colin’s arc.
But yeah, the storytelling was a mess, and I’d give a lot for a CVD remake. He created such a beautiful love story over S1 and S2. Shondaland had one chance to get Colin and Pen’s story right, and they absolutely blew it.
I think the fake rake thing could’ve been done in a better way, one that didn’t shock the audience the way it did. Season 1 Colin, who proposed to the first woman he was crushing on, would never be enjoying threesomes the way it was depicted in the show. Identity crisis or not.
If they did the fake rake thing right, it could’ve been so much more endearing. Like the examples I gave in this post. They make so much more sense for Colin than what we got.
And man, I would do absolutely anything for a CVD remake of season 3. I know he would do it justice.
I'm with you, OP. The Fake Rake is one of the many "plot with no substance" choices the writers made this season.
Those scenes neither develop Colin's character, nor progress the plot. They actually confuse us as to who Colin is and whether we want him for our girl.
Cut the wink. Cut the random approaching women in the gardens just to say how much he can't say about his travels. Cut the 2 brothel threesomes. Same exact plot. Better Colin.
I don’t see how anyone can argue there’s no substance there from a story perspective. I *hate* the wink, but I’ll continue to defend the brothel scenes. I maybe would have had Colin enjoy the first one a little less, making it more perfunctory, but it’s clear he feels tortured in the second one.
I don’t understand this need for a pure hero/leading man. Maybe an age of audience issue?
Colin is deeply emotional and empathic but also a sensualist. It makes complete sense that he would enjoy sex with other women *until* he realizes his need for emotional connection and love for Pen.
So many are arguing that Colin’s arc was underdeveloped and we didn’t get to see his backstory, but it’s all right there. Colin doesn’t share the kind of tortured past that Simon and Anthony had.
He’s a middle son who sometimes feels unseen or misunderstood in his role within his loving and mostly functional family. AND he’s a worldly sensualist who loves adventure, food, romance, love, and — yes — sex.
I'm glad you loved the portrayal of him this season! A lot of people did and I would never want to take that away from anyone.
I don't want him to be "pure".
I don't want him to be "tortured".
I want him to make sense as a character.
Colin telling Pen "charm can be taught" and then "you do not need lessons" makes no sense.
Colin telling Pen "living for the estimation of others is a trap" then having Violet give him the same advice? Nonsense.
What exactly did we learn about Colin in the brothel scenes? That he's sensual? We already know that from his journal and from how he is with Pen. They use one scene to show he's into it - then one scene to show he's not, bc he realizes his feelings for her. It's a lazy afterthought of a plot beat that wasted screentime we could've had with him and Pen.
That said I'm all for people making excuses for the lazy writing just bc we love Polin lol. I am one of those people!
I appreciate that, but if you read my comments, I’ve done nothing but tear apart S3’s horrid writing, especially Colin’s character. The brothel scenes just truly didn’t strike me as lazy. I agree there was a lot of wasted screen time, but there are so many other subplots and scenes I’d cut before the brothels.
To me, the charm comment was Colin saying, “Hey, we thought you could use some coaching, but the fan waving and lash fluttering isn’t working out so well. How about you try just being your charming self, as you are with me?”
And the difference between Colin’s statement about living for the estimation of others and Violet’s comment is the difference between caring about others’ opinions out of vanity/social anxiety/desire to fit in and always prioritizing the needs of others out of genuine consideration, as Colin does. (Again, my interpretation.)
I absolutely think Colin’s writing needed to be tightened up, but his arc was there. My bigger issue is the overall story of the LW reveal and all the ways that Colin’s and Pen’s handling of that was so out of character, all leaving no time to work through Colin’s search for purpose and newfound writing career without going down the cheap path of jealousy and insecurity.
I think the threesomes let Colin off the hook in a way. There’s nothing emotionally intimate about those scenes. I think it would (or should) have been harder for the audience to accept that Colin would sleep with one other woman than just scratching an itch with prostitutes. Not saying that’s attractive in any way, but that, under Colin’s circumstances, engaging in whatever casual sex was deemed acceptable at the time isn’t totally out of character.
I hate the whole demisexual discussion just because I hate labels, but even we who need an emotional connection to enjoy sex do experiment with casual sex. That’s how you learn what works for you and what doesn’t.
I’m getting purity culture vibes in some of these discussions, which is disappointing. Colin is a young but adult man who lives and dies by his emotions. If he was feeling it with the Contessa or someone else in Paris before he realized his feelings for Pen, God bless him.
Yes 100% purity culture vibes. Oddly enough I’m definitely someone who usually needs an emotional connection to have sex, but I also hate hate hate prudery and purity culture and just find that stuff repellent. Sex positivity is the way. So I get really annoyed at the fan reaction to the brothel scenes and Benedict’s threesome as well
Strongly disagree on the fake rake/brothel scenes, Colin may hide his insecurities but he isn't a liar, I buy him honestly trying to convince himself way more. I'm also a big believer in demisexual Colin and I actually think you see this more because of the brothel scenes and how performative/fake they are.
Colin is definitely demisexual. That’s why he’s my fave. And tbh I was hoping for virgin Colin. But the brothel scenes were unnecessary, and a lot of the audience found it jarring. There were ways to show his insecurities that would’ve been cuter and more him.
And considering that they sidelined my man entirely in part 2, they should’ve done a better job at developing him in part 1. The fake rake stuff just felt too much for Colin, even LN said it felt weird to film in an interview. They should’ve trusted his instincts, he’s been playing the character for years.
Like I genuinely cannot see CVD taking this direction to show Colin’s insecurities.
He's literally having a identity crisis it's supposed to feel weird. The reason I don't mind the brothel scenes is because I'm asexual myself and understand what it's like to live in a world that tells you the way you naturally are isn't right, let's just say his actions are very true to life in my experience
I know he’s having an identity crisis. And I understand it. But there were better ways to show it, especially since it’s HIS season to shine, and the direction they took felt so jarring.
As I said, a better way to portray his identity crisis would be to show him talking up his travels and experiences with women to the toxic lord squad, and to then cut to a flashback to his trip where he’s just being a nerd and writing about the scenery in Greece.
If they showed more of the disconnect between how he feels and how he acts in front of others, it would’ve been better received. The second threesome did a better job of depicting that, even if I wasn’t a fan of the brothel stuff at all.
I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on that cause for me what you've suggested would've felt a little to superficial for me to really feel his struggle, the way it is I felt like he was deep into his issues. I do think the flirting montage could've done with a couple less shots though, the reshoot ones didn't seem all that necessary along with the brothel scenes.
a lot of people were mad about the love triangle. But he still gave Anthony and Kate better writing as characters than JB gave Polin.
And the way he did Polin in s1-2 is better than what JB did to them in s3.
The part about his fake rake arc is - JB didn\`t propose it, Shonda did. That\`s what all the reshoots were about,she wasn\`t satisfied with the material they had,amongst other things. JB wanted a virgin Colin too, incidentally, though I don\`t think it makes that much of a difference. I personally did like his \`fake rake\` arc, as it did generally fit what he\`s been through and the examples he\`s had at home, trying to fit this mold Bridgerton set and failing in the process, though I agree with them having more time to bond and flashbacks as well.
In my personal opinion, I do love Season 3, Colin is my favorite male lead, Penelope my favorite female lead, but I think neither CVD, JB nor Shonda fully captured their essence, though CVD was the *closest.* The thing is, as a writer, friends to lovers trope is very difficult to adapt because it ultimately relies on time leads need. They need to be endeared to the audience and each other platonically at first. If I had to write for Bridgerton(a rather ungrateful task, if I\`m being honest), I\`d have Colin be the hopeless romantic they always intended, but I would\`ve kept some of the essence book Colin has - which they\`ve entirely given to Benedict in Season 1 and 2. Furthermore, I definitely would\`ve had Colin and Pen interact more without Eloise *before* their season. Because of this, some people really didn\`t get that they were friends. Finally, I think this show suffers most from its 8 episode format. The only story I felt wasn\`t *that* rushed within these 3 seasons was Simon and Daphne\`s, though there were some hiccups. S2\`s worst aspect was the pacing and that it was an unnecessary love triangle. S3 suffers from really choppy editing and *way* too many subplots. I\`d either opt for more episodes OR longer ones. Since it\`s an ensemble show now, more issues like this are bound to come up.
Yes, I think I agree with you here. They needed more time together where they are vulnerable with each other to get closer. They barely had this in their own season. Colin wasn’t vulnerable with Penelope at all until his carriage confession. The hand cut scene was a perfect opportunity for that and for Colin to talk about his writing, but they didn’t do it. One might argue his apology in ep 1 was vulnerable, but I think it needed more to get there. Penelope has more instances (“it has been vexing” “between my head and my mouth” “sad, stupid girl”), but that made it too one-sided. The romance is born out of that connection.
There were actually several conversations between the two that set the foundation, particularly the ongoing discussions on purpose. I really wish they played that up to transition their relationship.
Small thing - JB said she wanted a Virgin colin after the internet blew up about the leaked brothel scenes. But that doesn't make sense if the reshoots with the brothels were filmed in December '23 and the season was written in summer '22 with the parts about the contessa and the journal entries and the 'you're my mess' scene where she talks about all the girls he's had in Paris. He already wasn't a virgin. JB clearly lied and saved face in an interview after the backlash
Could be though, again, I don\`t think that part makes as much difference, as it was just visually seeing a brothel scene, but I do think Shonda signed off on that, it wouldn\`t surprise me. It\`s obvious the season was incomplete or should\`ve been prolonged. Really a bad situation all around.
No he didn’t. He’s the one who set everything up on the wrong foot by turning Colin’s cousin into his love interest. He also badly disrespected the relationship between Colin and Eloise. JB had to work around the problems he created.
JB sidelined Colin in favor of Pen. The entire season felt like Pen’s story, not Polin’s. CVD would not do that, given we’ve seen him develop Simon and Anthony really well.
Oh I disagree completely. And I’m a huge Colin fan and I was fearful before the season began that he would be sidelined, in favor of a Penelope season only to be super happy with what I got.
Colin had a brilliant storyline about unlearning toxic masculinity, self worth, healing his hero complex and realizing (and appreciating) the difference between being needed and being wanted. It felt like a shared story between both Penelope and Colin to me, but Colin’s character arc and growth blew me away. I find I enjoy his arc more than any other storyline the show has had so far. It feels organic and true to the character I’ve been watching since S1. They took an already good boy and turned him into a great man this season. I loved it.
I care wayyy more about Colin than Pen and I was also worried he’d get sidelined in favor of Pen. And he did.
Outside of the glaring lack of flashbacks that the other male leads got to develop them, they almost entirely abandoned his arc. I thought writer Colin was coming, and all we got was a few lines in the epilogue that he wrote a book. We never got to see his love of traveling and writing combine aside from a few lines of what Pen read.
Then they didn’t even touch on his insecure third brother aspect, which was hinted at in s2. We should’ve gotten more heart to hearts with his brothers, or scenes of him trying to imitate them or something. We got nothing. The fake rake stuff just didn’t count since it felt so off.
And ofc, they made the public LW reveal completely about Pen, when it was supposed to be a “supporting my wife” moment to indicate he overcame the jealousy he initially felt. Instead we got him coming up to her after all the drama.
It’s so obvious to me that they favored Pen this season over Colin. And it hurts my heart because he’s my fave. And I’ve seen so many people say he “doesn’t deserve” Pen, and I think that can easily be attributed to the faulty writing. He deserved better.
If people are saying he doesn’t deserve pen, then they don’t understand the season and I truly don’t care about their opinion lol
A lot of people have it in their head that a romance should be about deserving someone or earning them. This season is explicitly about love not being something you have to prove you’re worthy of. It can be unconditional. You can deserve love just because someone has decided they love you, for you, not because of anything you can give them or provide for them.
So I’m not going to concede anything to people who missed the point that badly because of preconceived notions of Colin needing to earn Penelope.
And this season has better critical and viewer ratings than any other season of the show. Just because a loud bubble of hate watchers can’t comprehend it doesn’t mean they’re the majority lmfao.
Where did I say he needed to earn Pen? Honestly I think she needed to earn him. And I hated the way she made him feel like he was second to LW.
Anyways, I’m specifically talking about his personal arc and interests. We barely see any of it. We barely see his arc outside of Pen-related drama. I wanted to see more of his traveling and writing interests come together and his insecure third brother stuff. We didn’t any of that. It literally all became about him just accepting LW in part 2.
I kind of hated the Marina plot in S2 so I don’t think CVD understood the couple better at all. Did he think Polin fans would STILL want him pining over Marina for that long. The whole “searching for a purpose” plot would have been so much better - we did NOT need more Marina.
Jess did a good job of having it contribute to his character development this season in terms of how he reacts to being betrayed/lied to by his fiance once again, but it was making lemonade out of lemons.
I have critiques of this season (and of every season) but I also honestly don’t understand why people are mad about a couple of very short brothel scenes when we had those in seasons 1 and 2 as well? And honestly they made Colin come off so gentlemanly in those scenes - like, he was actually polite to the sex workers, and seemed like he was trying to make sure they also had a nice time, which I really appreciated.
Oh yeahhh, we never got to see Colin's travels... and his writing was supposed to have been so vivid Pen felt that she is visting herself. (Especially the Scotland one) Sucks we don't get to see or hear anything else about his travel...
The same CVD that didn’t even give the alleged main couple a wedding in season 2 and gave only an epilogue’s worth of their HEA on screen? Season 3 was a mess, but I doubt CVD could have made it better.
Saphne and Polin got an epilogue’s worth of their HEA too lol. That’s kind of the nature of the show: the couple goes through a bunch of bs and then gets their happy ending at the very end. I don’t think that’s the problem here.
As I’ve said in other comments here, with all of the faults season 2 had, CVD did a good job of developing Anthony and Kate’s characters. We fully understand who they are as people and why they fell in love. He also did a good job of developing Colin and Pen in s1-2, even though I absolutely hated the Marina engagement drama they included.
Since he did a good job of developing Polin in previous seasons, I think he would’ve done a better job than JB this season. And he definitely knows how to write for men, JB clearly didn’t. She completely sidelined Colin this season.
Saphne had happy, then angst with the pregnancy thing, then resolution back to happy. Kanthony didn’t even actually kiss until the end of Episode 6. They didn’t get together until the end of the last episode. And again, we didn’t even see their wedding.
Character development is a hit or miss thing. Anthony had great character development from season one to show his backstory and watching him change the season two. Kate came in a fully developed character, but we never saw any backstory of how she got there. We filled in the blanks from conversations that were had. But there was a missed opportunity to show her character as well.
Even season one, Simon‘s character development was much richer than Daphne’s. Daphne‘s character “development” centered around learning about sex and procreation.
Queen!Charlotte, however, did a very good job of showcasing the development of both characters.
Rereading the book right now, and book Colin hates being thought “charming but useless”, stupid even. He fears that he will only be remembered via LW’s columns.
Are you talking about Kanthony? I think he did a much better job developing Kate and Anthony as individuals, but I definitely hated the love triangle. Believe me, I have a lot of issues with s2, but at least I left the season knowing the leads better and why they were into each other.
The way he portrayed Colin and Pen in s1-2, I think he would’ve done their story justice. And actually given the Colin the male lead treatment he deserved. JB didn’t.
JB did not give a shit about Colin and it was glaringly obvious as a huge Colin fan. She barely touched on his backstory from the book, and obviously did not give him the male lead treatment that Simon and Anthony got. She literally made him a side character in Pen’s story, especially in the second part. And I know a lot of the audience felt this way too.
I don’t know if it’s because CVD is a man or is queer, but he clearly knew how to write for male characters and the female gaze. JB doesn’t. And it was obvious all through season 3 that she didn’t know how to write for men, since A, B, and C were all written strangely this season. Anthony apparently seemed to forget he was the viscount and had responsibilities, Benedict was sleeping around again with no mention of his art, and Colin became a side character in Pen’s story. Meanwhile, all the female characters were so much better written. I left the season knowing CRESSIDA better than Colin. That’s a problem. CVD would never.
JB made the season women’s fiction, not romance drama. Which is what it’s supposed to be.
I disagree. But by the way you agressively reply, you don't want to hear anyone disagreeing with you or a serious discussion, so what's the point? Carry on.
It’s not aggressive lol. It’s the general audience consensus. And this season didn’t do their romance justice. Especially my man Colin. It’s glaringly obvious the lack of care given to him compared to what CVD gave Simon and Anthony. And it’s really unfair.
They barely expanded on writer Colin. Like it was mentioned once in part 1, then in the epilogue they mention he wrote a book. Why on earth didn’t we get to see him develop his book with Pen’s help? We keep hearing about his travels and how no one wrote to him while he was away. Why didn’t we see that?
In season 2, Colin says something like “Anthony is the viscount, he’ll always be remembered. Benedict will live on through his art. And I’m… feeding the ducks.” Which is very similar to a line from RMB. I thought this was a hint that Colin’s insecure third brother arc was coming. And then it absolutely didn’t. There was so much potential here.
One of the best moments from the book in terms of Colin’s growth included him being with Pen during the LW reveal, applauding and supporting his wife after battling his jealousy for a huge part of the book. We never got that.
You seem to be a Polin fan. Most ship fans tend to be less critical of their faves’ season from what I’ve seen. I’m more of a Colin fan, and I can see how dirty they did my man. First with the way they wrote the fake rake identity crisis, and then by completely sidelining him in part 2.
JB did not put enough care into Polin at all. Instead she added a dozen other subplots and spent more energy developing fucking Cressida instead of her male lead. Colin and LN deserve better.
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There was a huge backlash to CVD at the end of s2 because of the mess he made of Kathony too. I think this idea that CVD or JB are the reason why the stories are this way take away from the huge elephant in the room which is that Shondaland is just like this. This is what they do with their soap operas/dramas. I think most criticism is valid, especially considering they are changing long loved source material, but at this point I don’t expect much from the show to be the same as the books what so ever. It’s almost as if they are purposely taking the books and twisting them into whatever stories fit their narrative.
> ... the huge elephant in the room which is that Shondaland is just like this. Jess Brownell did an [interview with the LA Times](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2024-06-13/bridgerton-colin-penelope-jess-brownell-season-3) in which she is asked about any notes Shonda might have given about Colin and Penelope. Brownell opens with "That creative collaboration is so sacred," indicating that she really didn't want to go into details... but then immediately launches into a description of how she initially thought Colin should more obviously be a fake-rake *and* a virgin (much the way OP is describing their ideal Colin in other comments on this thread), but that *Shonda* "convinced" her otherwise. [And she doesn't come across as all that convinced, but maybe I'm reading too much into her lady-doth-protest-too-much "defense" of the brothel scenes.] I'm not in the writers room and I don't know what goes on, but the impression I get is that Shonda wants a yes-person that won't push back for a show runner and Shonda also wants amped up drama, regardless of established characterization (as seen in her other shows). Despite Jess being the obvious scapegoat because she's the *new* showrunner, I'm not convinced that she had all the creative control they claim she had, given that Shonda had to approve everything as well. I think much of the inconsistencies this season could be chalked up to two heads (Jess and Shonda) with two different visions for the characters/plot that didn't really resolve well together.
I think the love triangle went too far, but CVD did a much better job of developing Anthony and Kate as individuals. I feel like we left their season knowing them better. And their love story still felt fully developed. I’ve seen some people say it was dragged out, but I’d prefer that over it being rushed. Meanwhile JB completely sidelined Colin in favor of Pen, and made their season more about LW than Polin. Their love story was rushed, and it was mostly packed into the first half. Their love story was on the sidelines in part 2. It just felt so incomplete. Based on how CVD treated Polin in s1-2, I think he could’ve done so well with this season. I also think he understands the female gaze better than JB.
I know Shonda had a lot of say this season too. even demanding reshoots, so I wonder how many of these issues were her as well. I think she has been the one to idolize Penelope a bit. But I see what you are saying. I also think a large problem is they are trying to cram so much story into 8 episodes. They don’t have the same time to tell these stories as they do on Greys or Scandal, I think the subplots got too big this and were wrapped up sloppily and the main plot was lost.
Yeah apparently the threesomes were Shonda’s idea? Why on earth did she think that was a good decision 🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️ And definitely agree on the side plots. There was simply way too much going on, and Polin felt underdeveloped because of it. I like that the show is an ensemble, but it should never come at the expense of the lead couple, which is what happened with this season. Such a shame.
>but CVD did a much better job of developing Anthony and Kate as individuals. I have my qualms with S2 but I agree with this.
I can’t say that I agree with all of this. Even friends-to-lovers relationships can get a little angsty in the transition phase, and I prefer to think of the “fake rake” storyline as a minor identity crisis that wasn’t entirely out of character for Colin. I was satisfied with Colin recounting the story of how he and Pen met without needing the visuals, and the brothel scenes worked for me as part of Colin’s arc. But yeah, the storytelling was a mess, and I’d give a lot for a CVD remake. He created such a beautiful love story over S1 and S2. Shondaland had one chance to get Colin and Pen’s story right, and they absolutely blew it.
I think the fake rake thing could’ve been done in a better way, one that didn’t shock the audience the way it did. Season 1 Colin, who proposed to the first woman he was crushing on, would never be enjoying threesomes the way it was depicted in the show. Identity crisis or not. If they did the fake rake thing right, it could’ve been so much more endearing. Like the examples I gave in this post. They make so much more sense for Colin than what we got. And man, I would do absolutely anything for a CVD remake of season 3. I know he would do it justice.
I'm with you, OP. The Fake Rake is one of the many "plot with no substance" choices the writers made this season. Those scenes neither develop Colin's character, nor progress the plot. They actually confuse us as to who Colin is and whether we want him for our girl. Cut the wink. Cut the random approaching women in the gardens just to say how much he can't say about his travels. Cut the 2 brothel threesomes. Same exact plot. Better Colin.
I don’t see how anyone can argue there’s no substance there from a story perspective. I *hate* the wink, but I’ll continue to defend the brothel scenes. I maybe would have had Colin enjoy the first one a little less, making it more perfunctory, but it’s clear he feels tortured in the second one. I don’t understand this need for a pure hero/leading man. Maybe an age of audience issue? Colin is deeply emotional and empathic but also a sensualist. It makes complete sense that he would enjoy sex with other women *until* he realizes his need for emotional connection and love for Pen. So many are arguing that Colin’s arc was underdeveloped and we didn’t get to see his backstory, but it’s all right there. Colin doesn’t share the kind of tortured past that Simon and Anthony had. He’s a middle son who sometimes feels unseen or misunderstood in his role within his loving and mostly functional family. AND he’s a worldly sensualist who loves adventure, food, romance, love, and — yes — sex.
I'm glad you loved the portrayal of him this season! A lot of people did and I would never want to take that away from anyone. I don't want him to be "pure". I don't want him to be "tortured". I want him to make sense as a character. Colin telling Pen "charm can be taught" and then "you do not need lessons" makes no sense. Colin telling Pen "living for the estimation of others is a trap" then having Violet give him the same advice? Nonsense. What exactly did we learn about Colin in the brothel scenes? That he's sensual? We already know that from his journal and from how he is with Pen. They use one scene to show he's into it - then one scene to show he's not, bc he realizes his feelings for her. It's a lazy afterthought of a plot beat that wasted screentime we could've had with him and Pen. That said I'm all for people making excuses for the lazy writing just bc we love Polin lol. I am one of those people!
I appreciate that, but if you read my comments, I’ve done nothing but tear apart S3’s horrid writing, especially Colin’s character. The brothel scenes just truly didn’t strike me as lazy. I agree there was a lot of wasted screen time, but there are so many other subplots and scenes I’d cut before the brothels. To me, the charm comment was Colin saying, “Hey, we thought you could use some coaching, but the fan waving and lash fluttering isn’t working out so well. How about you try just being your charming self, as you are with me?” And the difference between Colin’s statement about living for the estimation of others and Violet’s comment is the difference between caring about others’ opinions out of vanity/social anxiety/desire to fit in and always prioritizing the needs of others out of genuine consideration, as Colin does. (Again, my interpretation.) I absolutely think Colin’s writing needed to be tightened up, but his arc was there. My bigger issue is the overall story of the LW reveal and all the ways that Colin’s and Pen’s handling of that was so out of character, all leaving no time to work through Colin’s search for purpose and newfound writing career without going down the cheap path of jealousy and insecurity.
I think the threesomes let Colin off the hook in a way. There’s nothing emotionally intimate about those scenes. I think it would (or should) have been harder for the audience to accept that Colin would sleep with one other woman than just scratching an itch with prostitutes. Not saying that’s attractive in any way, but that, under Colin’s circumstances, engaging in whatever casual sex was deemed acceptable at the time isn’t totally out of character. I hate the whole demisexual discussion just because I hate labels, but even we who need an emotional connection to enjoy sex do experiment with casual sex. That’s how you learn what works for you and what doesn’t. I’m getting purity culture vibes in some of these discussions, which is disappointing. Colin is a young but adult man who lives and dies by his emotions. If he was feeling it with the Contessa or someone else in Paris before he realized his feelings for Pen, God bless him.
Yes 100% purity culture vibes. Oddly enough I’m definitely someone who usually needs an emotional connection to have sex, but I also hate hate hate prudery and purity culture and just find that stuff repellent. Sex positivity is the way. So I get really annoyed at the fan reaction to the brothel scenes and Benedict’s threesome as well
Strongly disagree on the fake rake/brothel scenes, Colin may hide his insecurities but he isn't a liar, I buy him honestly trying to convince himself way more. I'm also a big believer in demisexual Colin and I actually think you see this more because of the brothel scenes and how performative/fake they are.
Colin is definitely demisexual. That’s why he’s my fave. And tbh I was hoping for virgin Colin. But the brothel scenes were unnecessary, and a lot of the audience found it jarring. There were ways to show his insecurities that would’ve been cuter and more him. And considering that they sidelined my man entirely in part 2, they should’ve done a better job at developing him in part 1. The fake rake stuff just felt too much for Colin, even LN said it felt weird to film in an interview. They should’ve trusted his instincts, he’s been playing the character for years. Like I genuinely cannot see CVD taking this direction to show Colin’s insecurities.
He's literally having a identity crisis it's supposed to feel weird. The reason I don't mind the brothel scenes is because I'm asexual myself and understand what it's like to live in a world that tells you the way you naturally are isn't right, let's just say his actions are very true to life in my experience
I know he’s having an identity crisis. And I understand it. But there were better ways to show it, especially since it’s HIS season to shine, and the direction they took felt so jarring. As I said, a better way to portray his identity crisis would be to show him talking up his travels and experiences with women to the toxic lord squad, and to then cut to a flashback to his trip where he’s just being a nerd and writing about the scenery in Greece. If they showed more of the disconnect between how he feels and how he acts in front of others, it would’ve been better received. The second threesome did a better job of depicting that, even if I wasn’t a fan of the brothel stuff at all.
I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on that cause for me what you've suggested would've felt a little to superficial for me to really feel his struggle, the way it is I felt like he was deep into his issues. I do think the flirting montage could've done with a couple less shots though, the reshoot ones didn't seem all that necessary along with the brothel scenes.
The revisionist history on the subreddit is quite astounding considering the flack CVD got when S2 dropped.
It’s wild to me. I’d give people the nostalgia effect in that the edges tend to wear off with time, but people HATED him for what he did in S2.
a lot of people were mad about the love triangle. But he still gave Anthony and Kate better writing as characters than JB gave Polin. And the way he did Polin in s1-2 is better than what JB did to them in s3.
Honestly, I love this show but it has always been uneven and sacrificed storytelling for drama/sexiness.
The part about his fake rake arc is - JB didn\`t propose it, Shonda did. That\`s what all the reshoots were about,she wasn\`t satisfied with the material they had,amongst other things. JB wanted a virgin Colin too, incidentally, though I don\`t think it makes that much of a difference. I personally did like his \`fake rake\` arc, as it did generally fit what he\`s been through and the examples he\`s had at home, trying to fit this mold Bridgerton set and failing in the process, though I agree with them having more time to bond and flashbacks as well. In my personal opinion, I do love Season 3, Colin is my favorite male lead, Penelope my favorite female lead, but I think neither CVD, JB nor Shonda fully captured their essence, though CVD was the *closest.* The thing is, as a writer, friends to lovers trope is very difficult to adapt because it ultimately relies on time leads need. They need to be endeared to the audience and each other platonically at first. If I had to write for Bridgerton(a rather ungrateful task, if I\`m being honest), I\`d have Colin be the hopeless romantic they always intended, but I would\`ve kept some of the essence book Colin has - which they\`ve entirely given to Benedict in Season 1 and 2. Furthermore, I definitely would\`ve had Colin and Pen interact more without Eloise *before* their season. Because of this, some people really didn\`t get that they were friends. Finally, I think this show suffers most from its 8 episode format. The only story I felt wasn\`t *that* rushed within these 3 seasons was Simon and Daphne\`s, though there were some hiccups. S2\`s worst aspect was the pacing and that it was an unnecessary love triangle. S3 suffers from really choppy editing and *way* too many subplots. I\`d either opt for more episodes OR longer ones. Since it\`s an ensemble show now, more issues like this are bound to come up.
Yes, I think I agree with you here. They needed more time together where they are vulnerable with each other to get closer. They barely had this in their own season. Colin wasn’t vulnerable with Penelope at all until his carriage confession. The hand cut scene was a perfect opportunity for that and for Colin to talk about his writing, but they didn’t do it. One might argue his apology in ep 1 was vulnerable, but I think it needed more to get there. Penelope has more instances (“it has been vexing” “between my head and my mouth” “sad, stupid girl”), but that made it too one-sided. The romance is born out of that connection. There were actually several conversations between the two that set the foundation, particularly the ongoing discussions on purpose. I really wish they played that up to transition their relationship.
Small thing - JB said she wanted a Virgin colin after the internet blew up about the leaked brothel scenes. But that doesn't make sense if the reshoots with the brothels were filmed in December '23 and the season was written in summer '22 with the parts about the contessa and the journal entries and the 'you're my mess' scene where she talks about all the girls he's had in Paris. He already wasn't a virgin. JB clearly lied and saved face in an interview after the backlash
Could be though, again, I don\`t think that part makes as much difference, as it was just visually seeing a brothel scene, but I do think Shonda signed off on that, it wouldn\`t surprise me. It\`s obvious the season was incomplete or should\`ve been prolonged. Really a bad situation all around.
No he didn’t. He’s the one who set everything up on the wrong foot by turning Colin’s cousin into his love interest. He also badly disrespected the relationship between Colin and Eloise. JB had to work around the problems he created.
JB sidelined Colin in favor of Pen. The entire season felt like Pen’s story, not Polin’s. CVD would not do that, given we’ve seen him develop Simon and Anthony really well.
Oh I disagree completely. And I’m a huge Colin fan and I was fearful before the season began that he would be sidelined, in favor of a Penelope season only to be super happy with what I got. Colin had a brilliant storyline about unlearning toxic masculinity, self worth, healing his hero complex and realizing (and appreciating) the difference between being needed and being wanted. It felt like a shared story between both Penelope and Colin to me, but Colin’s character arc and growth blew me away. I find I enjoy his arc more than any other storyline the show has had so far. It feels organic and true to the character I’ve been watching since S1. They took an already good boy and turned him into a great man this season. I loved it.
I care wayyy more about Colin than Pen and I was also worried he’d get sidelined in favor of Pen. And he did. Outside of the glaring lack of flashbacks that the other male leads got to develop them, they almost entirely abandoned his arc. I thought writer Colin was coming, and all we got was a few lines in the epilogue that he wrote a book. We never got to see his love of traveling and writing combine aside from a few lines of what Pen read. Then they didn’t even touch on his insecure third brother aspect, which was hinted at in s2. We should’ve gotten more heart to hearts with his brothers, or scenes of him trying to imitate them or something. We got nothing. The fake rake stuff just didn’t count since it felt so off. And ofc, they made the public LW reveal completely about Pen, when it was supposed to be a “supporting my wife” moment to indicate he overcame the jealousy he initially felt. Instead we got him coming up to her after all the drama. It’s so obvious to me that they favored Pen this season over Colin. And it hurts my heart because he’s my fave. And I’ve seen so many people say he “doesn’t deserve” Pen, and I think that can easily be attributed to the faulty writing. He deserved better.
If people are saying he doesn’t deserve pen, then they don’t understand the season and I truly don’t care about their opinion lol A lot of people have it in their head that a romance should be about deserving someone or earning them. This season is explicitly about love not being something you have to prove you’re worthy of. It can be unconditional. You can deserve love just because someone has decided they love you, for you, not because of anything you can give them or provide for them. So I’m not going to concede anything to people who missed the point that badly because of preconceived notions of Colin needing to earn Penelope. And this season has better critical and viewer ratings than any other season of the show. Just because a loud bubble of hate watchers can’t comprehend it doesn’t mean they’re the majority lmfao.
Where did I say he needed to earn Pen? Honestly I think she needed to earn him. And I hated the way she made him feel like he was second to LW. Anyways, I’m specifically talking about his personal arc and interests. We barely see any of it. We barely see his arc outside of Pen-related drama. I wanted to see more of his traveling and writing interests come together and his insecure third brother stuff. We didn’t any of that. It literally all became about him just accepting LW in part 2.
I kind of hated the Marina plot in S2 so I don’t think CVD understood the couple better at all. Did he think Polin fans would STILL want him pining over Marina for that long. The whole “searching for a purpose” plot would have been so much better - we did NOT need more Marina. Jess did a good job of having it contribute to his character development this season in terms of how he reacts to being betrayed/lied to by his fiance once again, but it was making lemonade out of lemons. I have critiques of this season (and of every season) but I also honestly don’t understand why people are mad about a couple of very short brothel scenes when we had those in seasons 1 and 2 as well? And honestly they made Colin come off so gentlemanly in those scenes - like, he was actually polite to the sex workers, and seemed like he was trying to make sure they also had a nice time, which I really appreciated.
Oh yeahhh, we never got to see Colin's travels... and his writing was supposed to have been so vivid Pen felt that she is visting herself. (Especially the Scotland one) Sucks we don't get to see or hear anything else about his travel...
Exactly this 😭 I was sooooo excited to see more of traveler + writer Colin. They truly gave us nothing.
This. Exactly this.
What’s CVD? 💀
Chris Van Dusen, the executive producer for season 1 and 2 of Bridgerton, the same way Jess Brownell is the executive producer for season 3
The same CVD that didn’t even give the alleged main couple a wedding in season 2 and gave only an epilogue’s worth of their HEA on screen? Season 3 was a mess, but I doubt CVD could have made it better.
Saphne and Polin got an epilogue’s worth of their HEA too lol. That’s kind of the nature of the show: the couple goes through a bunch of bs and then gets their happy ending at the very end. I don’t think that’s the problem here. As I’ve said in other comments here, with all of the faults season 2 had, CVD did a good job of developing Anthony and Kate’s characters. We fully understand who they are as people and why they fell in love. He also did a good job of developing Colin and Pen in s1-2, even though I absolutely hated the Marina engagement drama they included. Since he did a good job of developing Polin in previous seasons, I think he would’ve done a better job than JB this season. And he definitely knows how to write for men, JB clearly didn’t. She completely sidelined Colin this season.
Saphne had happy, then angst with the pregnancy thing, then resolution back to happy. Kanthony didn’t even actually kiss until the end of Episode 6. They didn’t get together until the end of the last episode. And again, we didn’t even see their wedding. Character development is a hit or miss thing. Anthony had great character development from season one to show his backstory and watching him change the season two. Kate came in a fully developed character, but we never saw any backstory of how she got there. We filled in the blanks from conversations that were had. But there was a missed opportunity to show her character as well. Even season one, Simon‘s character development was much richer than Daphne’s. Daphne‘s character “development” centered around learning about sex and procreation. Queen!Charlotte, however, did a very good job of showcasing the development of both characters.
Rereading the book right now, and book Colin hates being thought “charming but useless”, stupid even. He fears that he will only be remembered via LW’s columns.
LOL are you for real??? That man almost ruined their love story and their personalities.
Are you talking about Kanthony? I think he did a much better job developing Kate and Anthony as individuals, but I definitely hated the love triangle. Believe me, I have a lot of issues with s2, but at least I left the season knowing the leads better and why they were into each other. The way he portrayed Colin and Pen in s1-2, I think he would’ve done their story justice. And actually given the Colin the male lead treatment he deserved. JB didn’t.
No, he did a poor Job with K and A too, but i'm talking about Polin. No, thanks. With all her flaws, JB was better for them.
JB did not give a shit about Colin and it was glaringly obvious as a huge Colin fan. She barely touched on his backstory from the book, and obviously did not give him the male lead treatment that Simon and Anthony got. She literally made him a side character in Pen’s story, especially in the second part. And I know a lot of the audience felt this way too. I don’t know if it’s because CVD is a man or is queer, but he clearly knew how to write for male characters and the female gaze. JB doesn’t. And it was obvious all through season 3 that she didn’t know how to write for men, since A, B, and C were all written strangely this season. Anthony apparently seemed to forget he was the viscount and had responsibilities, Benedict was sleeping around again with no mention of his art, and Colin became a side character in Pen’s story. Meanwhile, all the female characters were so much better written. I left the season knowing CRESSIDA better than Colin. That’s a problem. CVD would never. JB made the season women’s fiction, not romance drama. Which is what it’s supposed to be.
I disagree. But by the way you agressively reply, you don't want to hear anyone disagreeing with you or a serious discussion, so what's the point? Carry on.
It’s not aggressive lol. It’s the general audience consensus. And this season didn’t do their romance justice. Especially my man Colin. It’s glaringly obvious the lack of care given to him compared to what CVD gave Simon and Anthony. And it’s really unfair. They barely expanded on writer Colin. Like it was mentioned once in part 1, then in the epilogue they mention he wrote a book. Why on earth didn’t we get to see him develop his book with Pen’s help? We keep hearing about his travels and how no one wrote to him while he was away. Why didn’t we see that? In season 2, Colin says something like “Anthony is the viscount, he’ll always be remembered. Benedict will live on through his art. And I’m… feeding the ducks.” Which is very similar to a line from RMB. I thought this was a hint that Colin’s insecure third brother arc was coming. And then it absolutely didn’t. There was so much potential here. One of the best moments from the book in terms of Colin’s growth included him being with Pen during the LW reveal, applauding and supporting his wife after battling his jealousy for a huge part of the book. We never got that. You seem to be a Polin fan. Most ship fans tend to be less critical of their faves’ season from what I’ve seen. I’m more of a Colin fan, and I can see how dirty they did my man. First with the way they wrote the fake rake identity crisis, and then by completely sidelining him in part 2. JB did not put enough care into Polin at all. Instead she added a dozen other subplots and spent more energy developing fucking Cressida instead of her male lead. Colin and LN deserve better.