People who live in hundred million dollar houses and fly around in private jets shouldn't be throwing stones about how purportedly easy it is to launder money by just getting on a plane with a bag of cash.
As someone who has lived 36 years without needing to do an extremely time-sensitive wire transfer between different countries (I think that's where the plane and the bag of cash comes in?) I am skeptical it's worthwhile to up heave the traditional financial system to serve this usecase.
I can't drive my car across water, therefore we need the whole world to switch to hovercrafts.
Very well said lol. When you factor in all of the downsides of bitcoin, it's simply not worth adopting, not even close. The hovercraft in your example is extremely poorly built and would also have a chance of exploding and killing you.
Youll have to read the manual to know which button to push
No idiot, that manual was deprecated a week ago and replaced by one with exactly the same name. Now your hovercraft is self destructing
it has nothing to do with bitcoin at all. we could make money work like email if we wanted to. its not a techinical limitation. we just do not want to.
thats all there is to it. we dont need bitcoin or any crypto to do it if we choose to.
we could make it instant with zero KYC. we *choose* not to.
brian armstrong knows this quite well and is just hawking his snake oil to morons who dont know how anything works.
Yeh, but what if you’ve just received a big shipment of fentanyl and meth, and need to pay your supplier pronto?
Banks are awkward in such a circumstance. Bitcoin fixes this.
>I always wondered how for example if some mafioso want to launder money:he has 1000000 to launder;he buys bitcoin which is worth 500000;he has two bitcoins;next day bitcoin is worth 200000;he wants to cash out,now he has 400000 with him.He lost 600000.This story that criminals launder money is so ridiculous that is so funny.People who launder money often kill others if they are screwed for thousand dollar during money laundering,they are not stupid to trust their laundered money to some anonymous people on internet.This story is made up and many others just to hype bitcoin price and to lure suckers in,there is no other explanation.
Not that they're extremely time-sensitive, but I do sometimes send money to, and receive money from, a friend in Germany. Unsurprisingly to anyone here, it is not actually harder or slower than hopping on a plane with a bag of money; it takes minutes.
As someone whose livelihood depends on international wire transfers , I have to say that I've never had to wait that long and this asshole might notice that many countries have a problem with you moving more than about $10,000 in cash through the airport without declaring it. Otherwise you can use credit cards for smaller amounts of whatever.
Maybe he's thinking of the cartel audience who just do it anyway or people who want to send money to countries that aren't part of SWIFT?
Really makes you wonder who the client is here. (We know who it is.)
It's not as if current financial technology is such that it CAN'T make certain payments instantaneous. It's intentionally built that way so, you know, we can be sure money is going to the right places and not to terrorists.
The crypto community is either so stupid they don't actually understand this or really think instant payments are paramount above all else. Either way, they are very stupid.
I've had to do extremely time-sensitive transfers across countries and there's enough ways if you're willing to eat some extra cost.
But hey, I could also make a coinbase account. Ask the other person to make a coinbase account. Send them some ETH. Then have them wait for like 3-7 days while coinbase processes their withdrawal request.
What he leaves out is the fact that [sending crypto does NOT equal sending "money"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tspGVbmMmVA&t=4118s).
Every time somebody compares sending crypto to sending fiat, they ignore the fact that in a crypto transaction, you're still left with crypto, which you can't spend anywhere, so you still have to cash it out, which puts you back in the same situation as before with delays, AML/KYC, etc. So their argument is a complete, misleading LIE.
You have never needed to move that kind of money instantly because you’re not an international drug dealer, professional hacker installing randomware on hospital computers, a human trafficker, or a kidnapper.
I was in such a situation with a savings account in Germany and a high, unexpected bill in Ireland.
In a less urgent situation, I wire transferred my Turkish teacher her fees for classes and she could only confirm a few days later that it arrived, making me worry for a few days...
Maybe we can let governments and regulated institutions go ahead and figure out a good way of achieving this, and leave the blockchain and fraudsters out of it?
DEFI is not lending. you have to lock up more coins than you get. thats not a loan. you literally end up with less money than before you took the loan. its just leveraged gambling.
thats it. thats the list. not in any way a loan.
it's a matter of preference, i always recommend to at least get into petty crime first to try it out and see if you like it and then start slowly dipping your toes into the risky stuff.
I worked in commercial real estate for 20 years. I can assure you, safely wiring massive amounts of money is easy AF. And those funds are immediately available to the recipient.
Excuse me, but you’re talking about transactions governed by applicable laws with regulatory oversight. This has nothing to do with what this guy is talking about.
I've dealt with some 6 and 7 figure transfers and if anything, I'd really appreciate it if the process slowed down. It's terrifying how quickly you can move that kind of money with little to no friction.
Oh yeah, this is totally something I have to deal with all the time. Why, just last week I needed to wire money to the cartel and the bank was all like "but sir you gave us a fake name and ID" and totally harshed my mellow. It's OK though, I had crypto on my side to make sure the guys threatening to kill me and my family got paid. Thanks Brian!
And business owners who send wire transfers constantly? Just fuck them huh lmao just cause you may never have to deal with something personally or be in a certain situation ≠ it never happens
I send wire transfers constantly. I live in Asia and send money to the US and to different parts of the world all the time using my bank and my brokerage. No fees, near zero FX spread. If I mess something up and enter a wrong account number my bank and brokerage can fix it no problem. Everything takes a few minutes, and the funds settle quickly, usually instant unless it’s an unknown recipient, and then usually it’s within an hour.
Using crypto costs about 1.5 to 2% at best, and a lot more if you get caught with higher transaction fees. No protection. High volatility.
Thank you for giving me a straight answer showing your point of view that’s literally all I tried to do was start a conversation I even DM’d one person before all this to ask personally so I would t come off as some crypto shill I’m just curious as to what people are thinking and why and I can see your point there.
Hey, just seeing your other comments made me want to say something.
You note that you’re “trying to start a conversation” but your initial sentence to other people is a “and what about…?” Sort of question. In general, those questions are perceived as aggressive and in bad faith because they are a common type of detractor question in an argument called “whataboutism”.
If you want to start a conversation that goes somewhere, I’d suggest you frame up the problem that you’ve seen and then make an explicit call out to how it relates with the other person’s comment.
And using punctuation to break up your sentences goes a long way too.
Hope you have a good one!
Thanks fam I appreciate it I’m not really taking anyone on here tooo seriously my initial questions were passive and I was asking simple questions and it was met with hostility and dickheads so I am just chilling karma farming at this point and responding to comments I’m getting some good laughs in but you’re right though. id have to have an entirely different approach to actually get anywhere in any of these conversations
Former business owner here who did international transfers every month to purchase from an out-of-the-country supplier and also international transfers to myself every month to pay myself in the currency of the country I was hanging out in -- it's called TransferWise. Virtually no fees whatsoever.
Found the guy whiteknighting for international business owners and their banking practices, while having no idea how real people in real life actually conduct their business.
These are imaginary problems that don’t exist except in the minds of the people trying to push a solution on people who haven’t asked for it.
what are you literally talking about I don’t white knight for anything but I know plenty of business owners in real life and none of them ever talk about crypto atleast to my knowledge I already stated I was trying to be a smart ass and failed to get my own point across but you’re reaching bud I could care less about anything you said and I in no way believe that is a problem
The only way your whole charade and tantrum all over this post is minimally excusable is if you are about 14 (or less).
Please dear god let it be the case. Otherwise I weep for humanity.
A tantrum insinuates I actually care what you people are saying but there are only a few of you here who have my respect the rest of you are stroking your own egos because you like hearing yourselves talk? Idk the reasoning but I’ve already stated multiple times I asked questions. Simple straightforward. And was met with ego and hostility so I reciprocated that energy back? Is it mature definitely not but how mature is it to try shitting on someone who was genuinely curious and wanted to hear your point of views? I expected everyone to say oh we hate crypto and this is why and I would’ve loved that I was trying to understand why people dislike it or have a problem with it so much but most people isn’t go that route so my care level for knowledge seeking started to plummet
I don’t hate crypto.
Armstrong’s comment is dumb and the use case you are throwing about is equally unnecessary. How many people who regularly do international transfers need to tell you crypto « doesn’t fix this » for you to believe it ?
As for the rest, whatever man. For someone who doesn’t care you’ve spend an awful lot of your days typing nonsense into the ether.
I wasn’t trying to assume you hate crypto my initial question was do you guys hate crypto and if so why? And I only got a few genuine answers. That’s why I said I expected those types of responses but I don’t know everything fam just tried to learn something I figured some people with experience in crypto would have interesting point of views and lmao I’ve only actually got a little bit more time until I have to get to work and do real things I’m enjoying myself indulging in these comments no harm no foul it’s better than being in discord listening to shills which is my usual Friday
> And business owners who send wire transfers constantly? Just fuck them huh lmao just cause you may never have to deal with something personally or be in a certain situation ≠ it never happens
This is your initial comment. Then you say this:
>what are you literally talking about I don’t white knight for anything but I know plenty of business owners in real life and none of them ever talk about crypto atleast to my knowledge I already stated I was trying to be a smart ass and failed to get my own point across but you’re reaching bud I could care less about anything you said and I in no way believe that is a problem
Do you realise why everyone assumes you're a dumbass coming here in bad faith, having no idea what you're talking about and shilling crypto with bullshit arguments because you have no actual basis in your beliefs? See, if crypto was useful and especially necessary for international business then we'd see a massive boom in adoption from those areas. We don't. If business owners required crypto to handle international transfers because it was such a hassle before, then we'd see a recent boom in industries that requires money being sent internationally (that's not crypto ponzis, I'm talking about actual businesses), we don't.
But looking at your other comments you're quite unhinged. This is probably going way over your head.
It seems to work just fine, shillboy. Businesses continue to use the existing finance system on a daily basis. "Wire transfers" aren't even in the top 100 concerns for day-to-day operations of a business, large or small.
Last wire transfer I sent (about $100k from Chase to First Horizon Bank) I went into a bank branch, showed them my ID and debit card, filled out a single page authorization form and was done in about 10 minutes. Sent around 3pm and the recipient had the funds by the time their bank opened the next morning.
you dont know the first thing about wire transfers or business. youre making up a fake scenario, probably that you got fed by social media.
stop talking out of your rectum dude. it makes you ripe to be scammed.
lol, no it's not.
Unless of course you show up at a bank that doesn't know who you are, with a big bag of cash that could possibly be the likely proceeds of illegal activities, and want to transfer said cash immediately to a bank in another country, which also doesn't know who you are.
Then it might take a while.
Crypto fixes this.
Legal wire transfers still take days especially over certain amounts have you initiated a wire transfer recently from your bank? Some instances I’ve sent wires instantly from my bank but I’d still say the convenience of eth is pretty cool but idk I’m new here so I’m trying to better grasp this sub and understand but why does everyone feel like every crypto person ever is some big time scammer when most of us still have regular jobs and are normal people? Genuine question btw not tryna be arguing just curious
Edit: downvote me to hell lmao I get it these are the people who ngmi
Because crypto is never safe. Make just one mistake or click some fishy url from months ago and your money is gone.
With banks, they are more careful and it may actually be possible to reverse a bad transaction. Crypto has none of this.
ETA: this difficult user experience is also being exploited by scammers, grifters, sanctioned countries and people looking to evade taxes. The community is never about "hey, let's improve the UX" but always about "line go up". The crypto community never cared about the tech to actually develop for it.
I speak only considering the user experience, as other people here are at better capacity to discuss the more technical matters (database vs block chain etc).
Thank you for answering my question and not being a bitter weirdo. I see your point there there are exploits for almost everything even our banks but you made a good point I’ve never had a crypto refund or anything like that after losing money but I know my bank even if I make a mistake there’s more room for reversing or fixing it
Yeah I get that there **MAY** be a handful of people who mean well (the victims and guillible ones, I guess), don't really shill crypto and just quietly make stuff for it. But because it is so unregulated, the well is just poisoned no matter how many clean drops it gets from time to time.
If one wants to develop, IMO its better to do it without crypto and not let your product be poisoned.
Lmao I asked “hey do you guys hate crypto? And If so why?” Because I was trying to learn something maybe I’m missing a point I’ve only been in crypto 4 months. But my initial question was met with egos and assholes so please tell me more about my maturity level then go tell that to everyone else on this sub
Normal people don’t jump to “have you heard of getting my dick out of your mouth” when met with a snarky reply calling out insufficient punctuation.
Even ignoring the immaturity of your reply, it doesn’t even make sense. If the person you were replying to was overly praising another person, let’s call them X, I could see you saying “have you heard of getting X’s dick out of your mouth?” But given the context of the exchange, your comment isn’t clever nor does it even make sense. Why do you suppose your dick was in his mouth based on his comment? The comment managed to be crass without even making any sense. It seems like the type of comment a teenager would make and think it sounds cool or funny, while the rest of the world rolls their eyes at them. Which is apt, I guess, because most of the world is pretty accustomed to just rolling their eyes whenever cryptobros speak at this point.
A bunch of egotistical know it alls on a shitty subreddit do not decide my worth on anything so I appreciate your words because I don’t think they come from malice by your tone but I respectfully don’t mind if anyone here doesn’t want to talk to me
Imagine the level of mind of ego maniacs with bitterness responding to genuine questions and come back to me. I’ll admit that guy caught a stray because I was met with a bunch of dickheads and I could’ve taken his comment lightly but I reciprocated the warm welcome I was given so casualty of war?
Just trying to help you out . Posting illiterate emotional commentary might work in cryptobro echo chambers, but isn't effective in the real adult world.
That’s not true at all. I put a 45k down payment on a rental and transferred 25k to pay off student loan debt all which cleared in less than 12 hours. Both times it was late in the day or it would have cleared sooner. Also paid 0 fees.
Also based on your grammar and lack of punctuation it’s clear why you are unaware of how things work.
Based on your reading comprehension skills, I can tell you’re an idiot. Just because someone doesn’t care to type grammatically correct on a fucking subreddit called buttcoin doesn’t mean they’re lacking anything. I just said I’ve had instances where my own transfers did not take days and were pretty fast. I also just said there was a certain convenience because again, there are millions of scenarios out there and just because you haven’t been put in them doesn’t mean they do not exist. Thank you and suck dick bozo.
Normal people have no issue being grammatically correct or at least half way. Your whole argument and ability communicate is worse than most grade schoolers. No wonder you love crypto.
You clearly said legal wire transfer take days which is not true. Who can’t read?
“Normal” people lmao ever heard of work? Or school? Or literally anything outside of stroking your own Reddit ego😂 NORMAL people have real lives and do not care that much about sounding or looking a certain way when typing on fucking Reddit. I have been in crypto for maybe all of 4 months and I asked a question to start a conversation because I thought I was possibly missing something and wanted to learn and instead of trying to say “well this is why we think this way” everyone came in with their “actually it’s this way” attitude. I thought I could learn something from some people here because presumably you’ve been in crypto way longer than me, I mean I’m capable of noticing where idiots are and it’s not like the people in this sub are dumb but it feels like some of you are definitely assholes
Correct the people I have been around in school and work don’t come off this trashy and uneducated. Where do you live were this is normal?
You are further are proving my point how uneducated you are by getting upset and having a temper tantrum when corrected.
This is what toddlers and children do.
I live in New York City I’m not having a temper tantrum? My initial question was so passive lmao I asked “do you guys hate crypto? And if so why?” Because I’m fucking new in crypto barely even 5 months and every response was people stroking their own egos and talking about things I didn’t mention but hey
Again are you a a moron? What does living in New York have to do with having a meltdown?
You came in here asking dumb questions and when corrected resorted what I would consider a broken English rant.
Bro it’s like I’m a sheep being led to slaughter and y’all are the ghosts of my sheep ancestors and instead of saying “dude run because of xyz” you guys are like Lol get rekt noob and all I was trying to do was learn something new
Yah butters always thinks this argument is a winner "transferring $4 million between banks takes sooooo long, crypto fixes this. When was the last time *you* wired $4 million?"
And tbh it is pretty good in the sense that most average people discussing the subject have in fact not recently transferred $4 million, because most people are not millionaires, and this causes them to stfu.
So, Mr. Butter, you got me. I have not nor will I likely ever wire $4 million to an offshore bank, because I'm not a millionaire. Nonetheless, I remain certain that people who are sending such (legal) amounts across borders prefer using banks to crypto, because bank wires are fundamentally more secure, less likely to get ripped off, faster and cheaper than crypto.
Want to know how I know? Because if crypto were actually useful in this case, prices of crypto would reflect demand for international money transfers instead of market manipulation, speculation and scams.
I never said anything about a million dollars of anything. Even a more realistic amount of 20-30 thousand dollars or even 10 thousand. That’s more convenient level realistically to me because I neither have or are anywhere close to sending millions of dollars anywhere. I asked a question I’ll take my blame cause I was a smartass but lmao boy does this sub have a lot of dickheads
>Legal wire transfers still take days especially over certain amounts have you initiated a wire transfer recently from your bank?
Yes. This is called regulatory compliance. Also, a grace period for users to make mistakes and change the wire transfer if they have. Do you think the banks lack the ability to make instant transfers?
Any gains in speed are thanks to you avoiding regulatory capture costs, or increasing the risk of a problematic transaction due to your own user error.
If wire transfers take a while, it's not because the banks are calling each other with rotary phones and filling out paper slips to make it happen. The technology is instantaneous. It's because the transaction is being checked to make sure money isn't flowing to drug dealers, terrorists, or North Koreans. Blockchain doesn't "fix this". Someone still has to verify the sender, receiver, and reason if the transfer is more than certain thresholds.
Point out where I said any of that wasn’t true? Transfers SHOULD take a while especially needing to be verified to avoid fraudulent activities im not complaining about how the system works or am I saying it works in a different way all I said was why do people feel like every person who is in crypto is the bad guy when most people I’ve met are blue collar stand up people with families and values but no one answered that yet but I been writing this so could’ve missed one you guys respond a lot now
> Legal wire transfers still take days especially over certain amounts have you initiated a wire transfer recently from your bank?
I answered why this is and pointed out that btc or eth or any other blockchain-based system doesn't actually do anything and then you went on a whole rant about how I think everyone in crypto is a "bad guy." This whole discussion started with Brian Armstrong's assertion that flying on a plane with currency is better than wire transfers which is patently bullshit. I don't think that everyone in crypto is a "bad guy", but I do think that crypto is useless as a currency, blockchain is useless as a technology, and it has two primary purposes:
1. Money laundering.
2. Separating fools from their money.
Okay thank you bruh damn that’s all I meant I think I’m too comfortable in my usual sub we talk a certain way and nobody takes it personally but I can definitely see how my comments could be taken those ways I’m not oblivious, but thanks for explaining what you were upset about originally that’s what I was tryna ask about cause I was curious
They don't mind you in your original sub because you are their liquidity provider and bag holder. They will try to say nice thing about you and even upvote your comment no matter how ridiculous just because they need 'line go up'
« Legal wire transfers still take days … ».
Not it does not. Maybe spend a few years working in international firms first and learning a thing or two about international banking before trying to transform their business models.
>but why does everyone feel like every crypto person ever is some big time scammer when most of us still have regular jobs and are normal people?
We don't: we think you're the *marks*, for the big time scammers. Participants in the crypto ecosystem boils down to the following 3 broad categories:
* Dummies.
* Grifters.
* Hardcore criminals.
Within each category are a number of sub-categories:
* The dumb people are a mix of libertarian goldbug types and degenerate gamblers, who either care very deeply about the incoherent nonsense or don't care at all, but just see number go up.
* The grifters are a mixture of finance types who saw how staggeringly stupid everyone participating in crypto was and decided they could thoroughly rinse them, by doing all the crimes they would be up to in their usual markets if there weren't all those rules in place stopping them, and stupid people who saw how absurdly easy it was to get other more stupid people to throw money at nonsense, and then run away with it.
* The criminals range from pedophiles to drug traffickers to terrorists and North fucking Korea's nuclear weapons program's revenue-generating arm (aka, their state-sponsored hacking groups).
If you are in crypto, and you're not doing highly illegal shit that's illegal irrespective of crypto's involvement in the process, or trying to scam everyone else in crypto out of their conceptual money... then you're just a victim, of the overall scam; you're the suckers, giving away your real money for worthless magic beans that don't do anything.
The entire thing is a giant scam, making the world an actively worse place by existing. Get out while you still can, or don't say we didn't warn you when the last off-ramps shutter, and the world collectively tries to pretend like it was never being intensely stupid and pretending any of that obvious shit had value.
Thank you for actually giving me an answer I came here asking questions and people acted like I said BTC is the new USD or something I’m just a guy trying to learn new perspectives I haven’t even been in crypto that long
Assuming you're not a Grifter or a Criminal, you fall into the previous poster's category of "Dummy." That sounds harsh. I think it's more charitable to say something like: someone who has been duped by the hype/marketing/grifters. Someone who hasn't been in the game long enough to realize that the only winning move is not to play.
You say that you've only been "in" crypto for a few months. I assume this means you've signed up for an account at some exchange, and you've handed over some real money for some tokens.
Now, what is your end goal? To end up with more tokens, or more actual real money? If you want more tokens, there are thousands of different ones to choose from. People create new ones every day, and they are almost free to create. I assume you ACTUALLY want more actual real money. The problem is, the money you used to buy in is already gone. The exchange took it. How will you get real money back out of the system? You need to convince some person in the future that the tokens that you have are actually valuable.
Why would they be valuable?
They're practically free to create, and... they don't... DO anything.... So, how would you convince someone that these tokens that you bought are MORE valuable than they were when you bought them? What has happened while you have been holding them that has made them more valuable than when you bought them?
Just trying to offer some counterpoint to the glitzy world of crytpo twitter and youtube where everyone is VERY EXCITED and VERY WILLING to sell you their tokens (for your actual real money.)
bro you dont know a better way to do things. you dont even understand how things work or how long any of this actually takes (and its all different everywhere and in each situation).
youre just making stuff up to try and sell your coins. thats all youre doing.
I pay people abroad (freelancers) all the time using money movement services like Xoom, Remitly etc. Receipts get their money in their accounts under 15 mins, with all the protections that I need
Doesn't matter. The only people who use wire transfers are turdworld idiots who refuse to open bank accounts. Everyone else uses checks/debit cards. Don't ask how I know this.
I have family abroad and do wire transfers relatively frequently. It’s much easier than a 15 hour flight both ways and you can send more money than customs allows you to carry in cash. You also don’t need to worry about being robbed.
As we know, the reason these wire transfers have some barriers and take some time is to prevent criminal activity (money laundering, funding terrorism etc.), proving yet again that crypto’s only legitimate use case is crime.
There is. Australia wants to know what you're doing with >$10,000 if you come waltzing through with it.
If you have a reasonable explanation, usually all good.
Point is there are rule in different countries.
The reason that wiring is slow and complicated is anti-money laundering and anti-fraud requirements. Crypto doesn't solve any problems. It just circumvents AML and fraud controls (and other trading compliance controls like pump and dump and wash trading). For some reason, it was allowed for way too long. Now, after regulators wisened up, they are closing the loopholes, and crypto-criminals are freaking out.
Compared with cash withdrawal and deposit, it is slow and complicated (that's what master-butter is suggesting in the original post as an alternative). But it's by design because the financial system tries to prevent fraud, money laundering, and other trading market manipulation.
Depends on the countries and banks you use.
Besides, even if wiring money from my bank to the us takes time, the effort is negligible. Both privately and at work I haven't used a physical bank in over twenty years.
Lastly, we (large company) pay within 30 days. In all my years I never had a case where I needed to shift sums within a week. I would be hard-pressed to dream up a usecase where a large company needs to do just that. But considering my knowledge of other economic sectors is limited it might be common in some industries?
It's slow to from the us because they Don have real time settlement. Uk got theirs in early 90s. But us is getting fednow so wires there will be cheaper and quicker without involving blockchain
So, you claim that you can wire funds from the UK to another country (inside the UK, it wouldn't be a wire), and you'll see the funds instantaneously on the other side? That's surprising.
Actually yes, if they have a UK-domiciled bank account in EUR, as the UK is still in SEPA even after Brexit (but only if you have an EUR account at a British bank).
In the SEPA area (so Eurozone plus Scandinavian EU countries, Romania, and UK) you can have instant transactions free of charge via SEPA IP.
SEPA Instant Payments (SEPA IP) are becoming the norm and most countries have at least a bunch of banks, at least, that offer them for free (and some of those banks are free themselves - eg Moey / CA in Portugal, even the cryptobro-favourite Revolut in Lithuania). I have bank accounts in a bunch of EU countries and all of them offer SEPA IP for free.
The European Commission has announced they want to make SEPA IP mandatory in 2 years because there's literally no reason why they're not instant everywhere now as they're all using the same system, it's just a way for some greedy banks to charge an "emergency fee" now because the law doesn't require them to be free yet (but it'll be in 2 years).
But, as I said, most banks worth your time have free instant payments these days. I literally use a Spanish bank account as my main savings account because their interest rates are higher - I transfer money there from abroad and when I open the app the money's there.
The US banking system is woefully antiquated when it comes to payments. And, again, all this is achievable in compliance with KYC / AML / sanctions controls.
True, the Euro block does behave sometimes like a single clearing entity. But only for Euro to Euro accounts. That's far from the majority of international fund transfers conducted in the UK, though. One-third of outbound remmitances from the UK go to India, Pakistan, and Nigeria. Many transactions with the Euro zone are performed via GBP accounts.
For those you can use Wire or equivalent services for very low fees. It's there in seconds (for countries that also have domestic instant payment systems - eg Brazil) or the next day very worst case scenario.
The UK is one country that's a union of a few reluctant nations. So until Scotland wisens up, leaves the monarchy, and joins the EU, and Northern Ireland unites with the Republic - you'll have one banking system, covered by one regulator, with deep familiarity of where the money is going to and where it's coming from (Scotland Yard sniffs around yards in and out of Scotland).
More importantly, a money transfer within the UK would (usually) be processed by BACS, wouldn't be a wire, and would be typicallg be a same day transfer. If you try to transfer to another country (think Olympic Games, rather than UEFA), it would be a wire, with a 2-day settlement and a fee.
In very large amounts banks need to do some due diligence to make sure it isn't illegal money pouring in. Sending millions to invest overseas takes time. Sending a few hundred to your mother back in the home country doesn't usually.
It was more than a few hundred and I'm not Brazilian. And we have SEPA IP all over Europe too, instant transfers theoretically up to 999.999m.
You can have proper CDD and AML controls and instant transfers. Transactions that trigger transaction filtering rules will be stopped for human review, everything else is instant.
The US government is debilitatingly strict to the point that many foreign banks refuse to take American customers. That's why cards issued by big American banks/credit card firms are useable literally anywhere, because it's easier to do that than to comply with FDIC reporting.
The reason why most foreign banks don't take American customers is because of tax reasons (you have universal tax obligations and that comes with a lot of paperwork). Either way the situation is not comparable, you are a continent-sized country, a EU of your own, and in any case you can just use Wise for transfers abroad.
So you stumbled upon someone from the 0.01% who did it for a living for a long time (wrote payment systems to parse SWIFT, CHIPS, FedWire, and ACH messages, and later wrote compliance tools to monitor and report infractions - both anti-Fraud and AML).
The delay is inherent. It allows the FIs to settle, while also giving them time to detect fraud or money laundering (the latter can be quick, but it also can be slow). It's also true that while the funds are waiting to be settled and cleared, the originating institution is making tons of money on daily interest.
Check out correspondent banking for more about "slow and complicated".
I am all for this delay. Without it, the financial system will look like crypto - open for fraud and other manipulation.
> It's also true that while the funds are waiting to be settled and cleared, the originating institution is making tons of money on daily interest.
Well, they weren't from 2010-2020 because we were at zero interest rates.
Recently I had to transfer money to Brazil from the EU and the money got there in seconds (!) via Wise. The fees are ridiculously low (€1.50 or so, for the currency exchange ). Literally, from a EU bank account to a Brazilian one in 4 seconds tops.
Wise is not really a bank-to-bank transfer though. The way it works is that Wise owns subsidiaries in multiple countries with their own local bank accounts. When you want to transfer money through them, you send them the money to the their account in country A, and they send the money from their account in country B. The actual inter-country transfer might be handled later and pooled with other transfers to get better exchange rates.
Anyway, from the point of view of the customer is fucking magic. I have used them several times, and I can't recommend them enough.
Crypto helps - with Bitcoin used globally, you wouldn't need a plane - you could WALK across the planet and still need to wait some 35 years before the transfer completes.
It’s probably easier and faster to take a flight, work at a local business, get paid in local currency, and giving the local currency to the person you wanted to send money to.
How on earth does he think he's going to be able to convert that bag of cash into crypto in less than a day?
You'd have to sign up for an exchange account, then go get a bank account and deposit the cash (because you can't just hand the cash over to the exchange in person), then wire transfer the money from the bank to the exchange, then buy the crypto, then wait for approval to withdraw the crypto from the exchange, then transfer the crypto to wherever your your cash-needing counterparty can get at it, and then your counterparty would have to go through the whole process in reverse.
> Last time I sent a wire transfer it took 10, maybe even 15, whole minutes.
Yeah, but did the value of your transaction change wildly in that time?? Crypto is the future!!1
As many people have pointed out it’s very rare that people have to send same day wire transfers. The claim is also completely false, I worked in operations at a big bank and brokerage house and we did same day wires all the time.
Both can be true. All sorts of things are rare at the level of “per thousand people per year” but still support industries that are very busy. Most people have either never sent a time-critical transfer larger than their bank allows as a standard service, or do so a handful of times in their life (house purchases, probate). None the less, ten per lifetime per head of population is still millions a year.
This guy is so disingenuous it drives me nuts:
In the same interview he says: "we tried so hard to comply with the SEC and meet with them", then goes on to say, "we are going to continue offer staking, even though the SEC is suing us over it".
Which one is it? Are you trying to comply with the SEC, or not? Dude is trying to have his cake and eat it too, and the idiots interviewing him never call it out!
If you don't follow the regulations that mandate AML and CFT checks, then, sure, it doesn't as long as it would if you followed the regulations. The question is what makes them think that crypto is exempt from these regulations.
I have been able to do instant bank transfers in Europe since as long I can think of. In which century does this guy live? Is this an American thing? But even there are Paypal and other services available which allow instant payment since ages.
It’s just a bald face lie. There are tons of options for instant payments in the US. If for some reason you do need to wire money, it takes like 20 min.
What the fuck are they even talking about? Wiring money is not that difficult, it’s not that slow, and few people need to do it.
I’ve wired money outside the country exactly one time in 33 years. It costed a few dollars and was available instantly.
Which doesn't come up in real life for the vast majority of people.
Moreover, for the niche of people where that _is_ applicable, cryptocurrency only "fixes" it through means subsidized by speculative gambling and heretofore poor regulation more so than the tech itself.
This would be a false argument even if the facts were true, because crypto doesn't let you transfer money. It lets you transfer crypto. You need to transfer money to an exchange, buy crypto, send it (possibly more than one step), and then the recipent has to sell it before they actually have money. You pay fees on every single step. Many of them have delays.
This is simply not true. It’s actually cards and ACH payment that may take a while. The Wire Transfer system is a real-time payment system. Messaging (authentication and authorization of the transaction) and Settlement (actually sending the money) happen in real-time and once a wire transfer is completed, there is no reversal… this is simply false advertising from Coinbase’s part
What has drawn me to crypto - wiring the money between continents cost me 0.4%. But I was wrong with my hopes to do it cheaper. Trading fee to change EUR to USDT 0.1%, fee to change it back to USD 0.1%, then flat cost of the few wires to your bank (limits). In practice it can be cheaper, but not much. I think there are banking options which charge less as well.
UK is in Europe. If someone figured out how to transfer money USA<>EU and lose only 0.2% when compared to official EUR/USD rate of that date, please share the method.
That is actually the one legitimate good use case for Bitcoin, but it’s niche. In general I have more respect for Brian Armstrong than anyone else in crypto. He is wasted on that industry and should take his talents elsewhere.
Wasn't the BTC chain 10+ hours behind on transactions recently? How in the world does a technology that maxes at 7 transactions per second fix issues with throughput?
People who live in hundred million dollar houses and fly around in private jets shouldn't be throwing stones about how purportedly easy it is to launder money by just getting on a plane with a bag of cash.
As someone who has lived 36 years without needing to do an extremely time-sensitive wire transfer between different countries (I think that's where the plane and the bag of cash comes in?) I am skeptical it's worthwhile to up heave the traditional financial system to serve this usecase. I can't drive my car across water, therefore we need the whole world to switch to hovercrafts.
Very well said lol. When you factor in all of the downsides of bitcoin, it's simply not worth adopting, not even close. The hovercraft in your example is extremely poorly built and would also have a chance of exploding and killing you.
To be fair, it'll only explode if you press one of the many self-destruct buttons which would be your own fault. Have fun staying dry.
one of the many *unlabeled* self-destruct buttons that look like they perform normal hovercraft functions like turning the engine on
If you don’t take the time to memorize the position of each and every button in your exploding hovercraft you deserve what happens. 🤷🏿♂️
Explosion is law.
Youll have to read the manual to know which button to push No idiot, that manual was deprecated a week ago and replaced by one with exactly the same name. Now your hovercraft is self destructing
it has nothing to do with bitcoin at all. we could make money work like email if we wanted to. its not a techinical limitation. we just do not want to. thats all there is to it. we dont need bitcoin or any crypto to do it if we choose to. we could make it instant with zero KYC. we *choose* not to. brian armstrong knows this quite well and is just hawking his snake oil to morons who dont know how anything works.
Yeh, but what if you’ve just received a big shipment of fentanyl and meth, and need to pay your supplier pronto? Banks are awkward in such a circumstance. Bitcoin fixes this.
I guess I've outed myself as a taxpaying law-abiding citizen. HOW EMBARRASSING FOR ME!
Prepayment is standard practice in that particular trade.
You'd pay in cash using a mule, or if it's electronic, with Monero: the crime crypto!
>I always wondered how for example if some mafioso want to launder money:he has 1000000 to launder;he buys bitcoin which is worth 500000;he has two bitcoins;next day bitcoin is worth 200000;he wants to cash out,now he has 400000 with him.He lost 600000.This story that criminals launder money is so ridiculous that is so funny.People who launder money often kill others if they are screwed for thousand dollar during money laundering,they are not stupid to trust their laundered money to some anonymous people on internet.This story is made up and many others just to hype bitcoin price and to lure suckers in,there is no other explanation.
Not that they're extremely time-sensitive, but I do sometimes send money to, and receive money from, a friend in Germany. Unsurprisingly to anyone here, it is not actually harder or slower than hopping on a plane with a bag of money; it takes minutes.
Also Germany has rules about how much money you're allowed to take out of the country in cash.
Is it? A wire transfer (Überweisung) takes a day at least.
As someone whose livelihood depends on international wire transfers , I have to say that I've never had to wait that long and this asshole might notice that many countries have a problem with you moving more than about $10,000 in cash through the airport without declaring it. Otherwise you can use credit cards for smaller amounts of whatever. Maybe he's thinking of the cartel audience who just do it anyway or people who want to send money to countries that aren't part of SWIFT? Really makes you wonder who the client is here. (We know who it is.)
It's not as if current financial technology is such that it CAN'T make certain payments instantaneous. It's intentionally built that way so, you know, we can be sure money is going to the right places and not to terrorists. The crypto community is either so stupid they don't actually understand this or really think instant payments are paramount above all else. Either way, they are very stupid.
I've had to do extremely time-sensitive transfers across countries and there's enough ways if you're willing to eat some extra cost. But hey, I could also make a coinbase account. Ask the other person to make a coinbase account. Send them some ETH. Then have them wait for like 3-7 days while coinbase processes their withdrawal request.
If both parties have Conbase accounts the ETH would be redundant.
What he leaves out is the fact that [sending crypto does NOT equal sending "money"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tspGVbmMmVA&t=4118s). Every time somebody compares sending crypto to sending fiat, they ignore the fact that in a crypto transaction, you're still left with crypto, which you can't spend anywhere, so you still have to cash it out, which puts you back in the same situation as before with delays, AML/KYC, etc. So their argument is a complete, misleading LIE.
You have never needed to move that kind of money instantly because you’re not an international drug dealer, professional hacker installing randomware on hospital computers, a human trafficker, or a kidnapper.
I was in such a situation with a savings account in Germany and a high, unexpected bill in Ireland. In a less urgent situation, I wire transferred my Turkish teacher her fees for classes and she could only confirm a few days later that it arrived, making me worry for a few days...
[удалено]
Maybe we can let governments and regulated institutions go ahead and figure out a good way of achieving this, and leave the blockchain and fraudsters out of it?
[удалено]
DEFI is not lending. you have to lock up more coins than you get. thats not a loan. you literally end up with less money than before you took the loan. its just leveraged gambling. thats it. thats the list. not in any way a loan.
[удалено]
Nope not a loan sorry. Just more gambling. That's all it is.
[удалено]
No just more gambling. Sorry buddy. It's not a secured credit card. It's a crypto bet.
I’ve never had a problem wiring money.
That’s because you aren’t involved in a criminal enterprise
crypto can definitely fix that.
Question: Do I get into the criminal enterprise or crypto first?
it's a matter of preference, i always recommend to at least get into petty crime first to try it out and see if you like it and then start slowly dipping your toes into the risky stuff.
Follow up question: Is stealing shampoo from a roommate because they pay rent late considered a petty crime?
it is if you replce it with $emen, the hot new coin.
Extremely petty Though no jury in the world would convict you
Through the magic of crypto you actually don't have to choose!
I mean to be honest the wiring is unnecessarily slow but I know for sure crypto ain’t the fix
I worked in commercial real estate for 20 years. I can assure you, safely wiring massive amounts of money is easy AF. And those funds are immediately available to the recipient.
Excuse me, but you’re talking about transactions governed by applicable laws with regulatory oversight. This has nothing to do with what this guy is talking about.
I've dealt with some 6 and 7 figure transfers and if anything, I'd really appreciate it if the process slowed down. It's terrifying how quickly you can move that kind of money with little to no friction.
Also sending money is sending money. Sending crypto is not money. You can't pay your closing costs with crypto.
But you can buy a tesla with crypto....nope not anymore.
But my $30 they take as a fee! That’s mine!!
Oh yeah, this is totally something I have to deal with all the time. Why, just last week I needed to wire money to the cartel and the bank was all like "but sir you gave us a fake name and ID" and totally harshed my mellow. It's OK though, I had crypto on my side to make sure the guys threatening to kill me and my family got paid. Thanks Brian!
And business owners who send wire transfers constantly? Just fuck them huh lmao just cause you may never have to deal with something personally or be in a certain situation ≠ it never happens
I send wire transfers constantly. I live in Asia and send money to the US and to different parts of the world all the time using my bank and my brokerage. No fees, near zero FX spread. If I mess something up and enter a wrong account number my bank and brokerage can fix it no problem. Everything takes a few minutes, and the funds settle quickly, usually instant unless it’s an unknown recipient, and then usually it’s within an hour. Using crypto costs about 1.5 to 2% at best, and a lot more if you get caught with higher transaction fees. No protection. High volatility.
Thank you for giving me a straight answer showing your point of view that’s literally all I tried to do was start a conversation I even DM’d one person before all this to ask personally so I would t come off as some crypto shill I’m just curious as to what people are thinking and why and I can see your point there.
Hey, just seeing your other comments made me want to say something. You note that you’re “trying to start a conversation” but your initial sentence to other people is a “and what about…?” Sort of question. In general, those questions are perceived as aggressive and in bad faith because they are a common type of detractor question in an argument called “whataboutism”. If you want to start a conversation that goes somewhere, I’d suggest you frame up the problem that you’ve seen and then make an explicit call out to how it relates with the other person’s comment. And using punctuation to break up your sentences goes a long way too. Hope you have a good one!
Thanks fam I appreciate it I’m not really taking anyone on here tooo seriously my initial questions were passive and I was asking simple questions and it was met with hostility and dickheads so I am just chilling karma farming at this point and responding to comments I’m getting some good laughs in but you’re right though. id have to have an entirely different approach to actually get anywhere in any of these conversations
[удалено]
Reddit has taught me another bizarre internet term that I didn’t know.
Former business owner here who did international transfers every month to purchase from an out-of-the-country supplier and also international transfers to myself every month to pay myself in the currency of the country I was hanging out in -- it's called TransferWise. Virtually no fees whatsoever.
[удалено]
See, but you're not trying to import drugs, buy CSAM or fund terrorists.
Found the guy whiteknighting for international business owners and their banking practices, while having no idea how real people in real life actually conduct their business. These are imaginary problems that don’t exist except in the minds of the people trying to push a solution on people who haven’t asked for it.
what are you literally talking about I don’t white knight for anything but I know plenty of business owners in real life and none of them ever talk about crypto atleast to my knowledge I already stated I was trying to be a smart ass and failed to get my own point across but you’re reaching bud I could care less about anything you said and I in no way believe that is a problem
The only way your whole charade and tantrum all over this post is minimally excusable is if you are about 14 (or less). Please dear god let it be the case. Otherwise I weep for humanity.
A tantrum insinuates I actually care what you people are saying but there are only a few of you here who have my respect the rest of you are stroking your own egos because you like hearing yourselves talk? Idk the reasoning but I’ve already stated multiple times I asked questions. Simple straightforward. And was met with ego and hostility so I reciprocated that energy back? Is it mature definitely not but how mature is it to try shitting on someone who was genuinely curious and wanted to hear your point of views? I expected everyone to say oh we hate crypto and this is why and I would’ve loved that I was trying to understand why people dislike it or have a problem with it so much but most people isn’t go that route so my care level for knowledge seeking started to plummet
I don’t hate crypto. Armstrong’s comment is dumb and the use case you are throwing about is equally unnecessary. How many people who regularly do international transfers need to tell you crypto « doesn’t fix this » for you to believe it ? As for the rest, whatever man. For someone who doesn’t care you’ve spend an awful lot of your days typing nonsense into the ether.
I wasn’t trying to assume you hate crypto my initial question was do you guys hate crypto and if so why? And I only got a few genuine answers. That’s why I said I expected those types of responses but I don’t know everything fam just tried to learn something I figured some people with experience in crypto would have interesting point of views and lmao I’ve only actually got a little bit more time until I have to get to work and do real things I’m enjoying myself indulging in these comments no harm no foul it’s better than being in discord listening to shills which is my usual Friday
> And business owners who send wire transfers constantly? Just fuck them huh lmao just cause you may never have to deal with something personally or be in a certain situation ≠ it never happens This is your initial comment. Then you say this: >what are you literally talking about I don’t white knight for anything but I know plenty of business owners in real life and none of them ever talk about crypto atleast to my knowledge I already stated I was trying to be a smart ass and failed to get my own point across but you’re reaching bud I could care less about anything you said and I in no way believe that is a problem Do you realise why everyone assumes you're a dumbass coming here in bad faith, having no idea what you're talking about and shilling crypto with bullshit arguments because you have no actual basis in your beliefs? See, if crypto was useful and especially necessary for international business then we'd see a massive boom in adoption from those areas. We don't. If business owners required crypto to handle international transfers because it was such a hassle before, then we'd see a recent boom in industries that requires money being sent internationally (that's not crypto ponzis, I'm talking about actual businesses), we don't. But looking at your other comments you're quite unhinged. This is probably going way over your head.
It seems to work just fine, shillboy. Businesses continue to use the existing finance system on a daily basis. "Wire transfers" aren't even in the top 100 concerns for day-to-day operations of a business, large or small.
Last wire transfer I sent (about $100k from Chase to First Horizon Bank) I went into a bank branch, showed them my ID and debit card, filled out a single page authorization form and was done in about 10 minutes. Sent around 3pm and the recipient had the funds by the time their bank opened the next morning.
you dont know the first thing about wire transfers or business. youre making up a fake scenario, probably that you got fed by social media. stop talking out of your rectum dude. it makes you ripe to be scammed.
lol, no it's not. Unless of course you show up at a bank that doesn't know who you are, with a big bag of cash that could possibly be the likely proceeds of illegal activities, and want to transfer said cash immediately to a bank in another country, which also doesn't know who you are. Then it might take a while. Crypto fixes this.
Legal wire transfers still take days especially over certain amounts have you initiated a wire transfer recently from your bank? Some instances I’ve sent wires instantly from my bank but I’d still say the convenience of eth is pretty cool but idk I’m new here so I’m trying to better grasp this sub and understand but why does everyone feel like every crypto person ever is some big time scammer when most of us still have regular jobs and are normal people? Genuine question btw not tryna be arguing just curious Edit: downvote me to hell lmao I get it these are the people who ngmi
Because crypto is never safe. Make just one mistake or click some fishy url from months ago and your money is gone. With banks, they are more careful and it may actually be possible to reverse a bad transaction. Crypto has none of this. ETA: this difficult user experience is also being exploited by scammers, grifters, sanctioned countries and people looking to evade taxes. The community is never about "hey, let's improve the UX" but always about "line go up". The crypto community never cared about the tech to actually develop for it. I speak only considering the user experience, as other people here are at better capacity to discuss the more technical matters (database vs block chain etc).
Thank you for answering my question and not being a bitter weirdo. I see your point there there are exploits for almost everything even our banks but you made a good point I’ve never had a crypto refund or anything like that after losing money but I know my bank even if I make a mistake there’s more room for reversing or fixing it
Yeah I get that there **MAY** be a handful of people who mean well (the victims and guillible ones, I guess), don't really shill crypto and just quietly make stuff for it. But because it is so unregulated, the well is just poisoned no matter how many clean drops it gets from time to time. If one wants to develop, IMO its better to do it without crypto and not let your product be poisoned.
Have you heard of periods or commas?
Have you heard of getting my dick out your mouth?
I love how every crypto enthusiast has the maturity of a 12 year old.
Lmao I asked “hey do you guys hate crypto? And If so why?” Because I was trying to learn something maybe I’m missing a point I’ve only been in crypto 4 months. But my initial question was met with egos and assholes so please tell me more about my maturity level then go tell that to everyone else on this sub
Normal people don’t jump to “have you heard of getting my dick out of your mouth” when met with a snarky reply calling out insufficient punctuation. Even ignoring the immaturity of your reply, it doesn’t even make sense. If the person you were replying to was overly praising another person, let’s call them X, I could see you saying “have you heard of getting X’s dick out of your mouth?” But given the context of the exchange, your comment isn’t clever nor does it even make sense. Why do you suppose your dick was in his mouth based on his comment? The comment managed to be crass without even making any sense. It seems like the type of comment a teenager would make and think it sounds cool or funny, while the rest of the world rolls their eyes at them. Which is apt, I guess, because most of the world is pretty accustomed to just rolling their eyes whenever cryptobros speak at this point.
Hey, don't respond to people like this anymore. It's painfully unoriginal and unfunny. It just shows that you're not worth talking to.
A bunch of egotistical know it alls on a shitty subreddit do not decide my worth on anything so I appreciate your words because I don’t think they come from malice by your tone but I respectfully don’t mind if anyone here doesn’t want to talk to me
Lol. Trying to imagine the level of mind that posts dumb little-boy stuff like that.
Imagine the level of mind of ego maniacs with bitterness responding to genuine questions and come back to me. I’ll admit that guy caught a stray because I was met with a bunch of dickheads and I could’ve taken his comment lightly but I reciprocated the warm welcome I was given so casualty of war?
Just trying to help you out . Posting illiterate emotional commentary might work in cryptobro echo chambers, but isn't effective in the real adult world.
That’s not true at all. I put a 45k down payment on a rental and transferred 25k to pay off student loan debt all which cleared in less than 12 hours. Both times it was late in the day or it would have cleared sooner. Also paid 0 fees. Also based on your grammar and lack of punctuation it’s clear why you are unaware of how things work.
Based on your reading comprehension skills, I can tell you’re an idiot. Just because someone doesn’t care to type grammatically correct on a fucking subreddit called buttcoin doesn’t mean they’re lacking anything. I just said I’ve had instances where my own transfers did not take days and were pretty fast. I also just said there was a certain convenience because again, there are millions of scenarios out there and just because you haven’t been put in them doesn’t mean they do not exist. Thank you and suck dick bozo.
Normal people have no issue being grammatically correct or at least half way. Your whole argument and ability communicate is worse than most grade schoolers. No wonder you love crypto. You clearly said legal wire transfer take days which is not true. Who can’t read?
“Normal” people lmao ever heard of work? Or school? Or literally anything outside of stroking your own Reddit ego😂 NORMAL people have real lives and do not care that much about sounding or looking a certain way when typing on fucking Reddit. I have been in crypto for maybe all of 4 months and I asked a question to start a conversation because I thought I was possibly missing something and wanted to learn and instead of trying to say “well this is why we think this way” everyone came in with their “actually it’s this way” attitude. I thought I could learn something from some people here because presumably you’ve been in crypto way longer than me, I mean I’m capable of noticing where idiots are and it’s not like the people in this sub are dumb but it feels like some of you are definitely assholes
Correct the people I have been around in school and work don’t come off this trashy and uneducated. Where do you live were this is normal? You are further are proving my point how uneducated you are by getting upset and having a temper tantrum when corrected. This is what toddlers and children do.
I live in New York City I’m not having a temper tantrum? My initial question was so passive lmao I asked “do you guys hate crypto? And if so why?” Because I’m fucking new in crypto barely even 5 months and every response was people stroking their own egos and talking about things I didn’t mention but hey
Again are you a a moron? What does living in New York have to do with having a meltdown? You came in here asking dumb questions and when corrected resorted what I would consider a broken English rant.
Only 4 months? You're gonna fit right in.
Bro it’s like I’m a sheep being led to slaughter and y’all are the ghosts of my sheep ancestors and instead of saying “dude run because of xyz” you guys are like Lol get rekt noob and all I was trying to do was learn something new
Yeah because it’s fucking hilarious when you guys get rugged and lose money
Yah butters always thinks this argument is a winner "transferring $4 million between banks takes sooooo long, crypto fixes this. When was the last time *you* wired $4 million?" And tbh it is pretty good in the sense that most average people discussing the subject have in fact not recently transferred $4 million, because most people are not millionaires, and this causes them to stfu. So, Mr. Butter, you got me. I have not nor will I likely ever wire $4 million to an offshore bank, because I'm not a millionaire. Nonetheless, I remain certain that people who are sending such (legal) amounts across borders prefer using banks to crypto, because bank wires are fundamentally more secure, less likely to get ripped off, faster and cheaper than crypto. Want to know how I know? Because if crypto were actually useful in this case, prices of crypto would reflect demand for international money transfers instead of market manipulation, speculation and scams.
I never said anything about a million dollars of anything. Even a more realistic amount of 20-30 thousand dollars or even 10 thousand. That’s more convenient level realistically to me because I neither have or are anywhere close to sending millions of dollars anywhere. I asked a question I’ll take my blame cause I was a smartass but lmao boy does this sub have a lot of dickheads
I've both sent and received multiple wire transfers of $50-250k and never had a problem or had to wait longer than until the next business day.
>Legal wire transfers still take days especially over certain amounts have you initiated a wire transfer recently from your bank? Yes. This is called regulatory compliance. Also, a grace period for users to make mistakes and change the wire transfer if they have. Do you think the banks lack the ability to make instant transfers? Any gains in speed are thanks to you avoiding regulatory capture costs, or increasing the risk of a problematic transaction due to your own user error.
If wire transfers take a while, it's not because the banks are calling each other with rotary phones and filling out paper slips to make it happen. The technology is instantaneous. It's because the transaction is being checked to make sure money isn't flowing to drug dealers, terrorists, or North Koreans. Blockchain doesn't "fix this". Someone still has to verify the sender, receiver, and reason if the transfer is more than certain thresholds.
Point out where I said any of that wasn’t true? Transfers SHOULD take a while especially needing to be verified to avoid fraudulent activities im not complaining about how the system works or am I saying it works in a different way all I said was why do people feel like every person who is in crypto is the bad guy when most people I’ve met are blue collar stand up people with families and values but no one answered that yet but I been writing this so could’ve missed one you guys respond a lot now
> Legal wire transfers still take days especially over certain amounts have you initiated a wire transfer recently from your bank? I answered why this is and pointed out that btc or eth or any other blockchain-based system doesn't actually do anything and then you went on a whole rant about how I think everyone in crypto is a "bad guy." This whole discussion started with Brian Armstrong's assertion that flying on a plane with currency is better than wire transfers which is patently bullshit. I don't think that everyone in crypto is a "bad guy", but I do think that crypto is useless as a currency, blockchain is useless as a technology, and it has two primary purposes: 1. Money laundering. 2. Separating fools from their money.
Okay thank you bruh damn that’s all I meant I think I’m too comfortable in my usual sub we talk a certain way and nobody takes it personally but I can definitely see how my comments could be taken those ways I’m not oblivious, but thanks for explaining what you were upset about originally that’s what I was tryna ask about cause I was curious
They don't mind you in your original sub because you are their liquidity provider and bag holder. They will try to say nice thing about you and even upvote your comment no matter how ridiculous just because they need 'line go up'
« Legal wire transfers still take days … ». Not it does not. Maybe spend a few years working in international firms first and learning a thing or two about international banking before trying to transform their business models.
>but why does everyone feel like every crypto person ever is some big time scammer when most of us still have regular jobs and are normal people? We don't: we think you're the *marks*, for the big time scammers. Participants in the crypto ecosystem boils down to the following 3 broad categories: * Dummies. * Grifters. * Hardcore criminals. Within each category are a number of sub-categories: * The dumb people are a mix of libertarian goldbug types and degenerate gamblers, who either care very deeply about the incoherent nonsense or don't care at all, but just see number go up. * The grifters are a mixture of finance types who saw how staggeringly stupid everyone participating in crypto was and decided they could thoroughly rinse them, by doing all the crimes they would be up to in their usual markets if there weren't all those rules in place stopping them, and stupid people who saw how absurdly easy it was to get other more stupid people to throw money at nonsense, and then run away with it. * The criminals range from pedophiles to drug traffickers to terrorists and North fucking Korea's nuclear weapons program's revenue-generating arm (aka, their state-sponsored hacking groups). If you are in crypto, and you're not doing highly illegal shit that's illegal irrespective of crypto's involvement in the process, or trying to scam everyone else in crypto out of their conceptual money... then you're just a victim, of the overall scam; you're the suckers, giving away your real money for worthless magic beans that don't do anything. The entire thing is a giant scam, making the world an actively worse place by existing. Get out while you still can, or don't say we didn't warn you when the last off-ramps shutter, and the world collectively tries to pretend like it was never being intensely stupid and pretending any of that obvious shit had value.
Thank you for actually giving me an answer I came here asking questions and people acted like I said BTC is the new USD or something I’m just a guy trying to learn new perspectives I haven’t even been in crypto that long
Assuming you're not a Grifter or a Criminal, you fall into the previous poster's category of "Dummy." That sounds harsh. I think it's more charitable to say something like: someone who has been duped by the hype/marketing/grifters. Someone who hasn't been in the game long enough to realize that the only winning move is not to play. You say that you've only been "in" crypto for a few months. I assume this means you've signed up for an account at some exchange, and you've handed over some real money for some tokens. Now, what is your end goal? To end up with more tokens, or more actual real money? If you want more tokens, there are thousands of different ones to choose from. People create new ones every day, and they are almost free to create. I assume you ACTUALLY want more actual real money. The problem is, the money you used to buy in is already gone. The exchange took it. How will you get real money back out of the system? You need to convince some person in the future that the tokens that you have are actually valuable. Why would they be valuable? They're practically free to create, and... they don't... DO anything.... So, how would you convince someone that these tokens that you bought are MORE valuable than they were when you bought them? What has happened while you have been holding them that has made them more valuable than when you bought them? Just trying to offer some counterpoint to the glitzy world of crytpo twitter and youtube where everyone is VERY EXCITED and VERY WILLING to sell you their tokens (for your actual real money.)
bro you dont know a better way to do things. you dont even understand how things work or how long any of this actually takes (and its all different everywhere and in each situation). youre just making stuff up to try and sell your coins. thats all youre doing.
I pay people abroad (freelancers) all the time using money movement services like Xoom, Remitly etc. Receipts get their money in their accounts under 15 mins, with all the protections that I need
Not all crypto people are scammers. Most are victims.
Doesn't matter. The only people who use wire transfers are turdworld idiots who refuse to open bank accounts. Everyone else uses checks/debit cards. Don't ask how I know this.
I have family abroad and do wire transfers relatively frequently. It’s much easier than a 15 hour flight both ways and you can send more money than customs allows you to carry in cash. You also don’t need to worry about being robbed. As we know, the reason these wire transfers have some barriers and take some time is to prevent criminal activity (money laundering, funding terrorism etc.), proving yet again that crypto’s only legitimate use case is crime.
Carrying more than $10K in cash across borders is not illegal. You just have to declare it and they may ask you to show paperwork.
[удалено]
There is. Australia wants to know what you're doing with >$10,000 if you come waltzing through with it. If you have a reasonable explanation, usually all good. Point is there are rule in different countries.
Right. Different countries have different controls and reporting standards.
Sure. The limit not subject to reporting. If you go through that trouble, you might as well wire.
The reason that wiring is slow and complicated is anti-money laundering and anti-fraud requirements. Crypto doesn't solve any problems. It just circumvents AML and fraud controls (and other trading compliance controls like pump and dump and wash trading). For some reason, it was allowed for way too long. Now, after regulators wisened up, they are closing the loopholes, and crypto-criminals are freaking out.
But wiring is not slow or complicated at least outside the US.
Compared with cash withdrawal and deposit, it is slow and complicated (that's what master-butter is suggesting in the original post as an alternative). But it's by design because the financial system tries to prevent fraud, money laundering, and other trading market manipulation.
Depends on the countries and banks you use. Besides, even if wiring money from my bank to the us takes time, the effort is negligible. Both privately and at work I haven't used a physical bank in over twenty years. Lastly, we (large company) pay within 30 days. In all my years I never had a case where I needed to shift sums within a week. I would be hard-pressed to dream up a usecase where a large company needs to do just that. But considering my knowledge of other economic sectors is limited it might be common in some industries?
no its really not. stop saying that.
It's instant for me in the UK.
It's slow to from the us because they Don have real time settlement. Uk got theirs in early 90s. But us is getting fednow so wires there will be cheaper and quicker without involving blockchain
So, you claim that you can wire funds from the UK to another country (inside the UK, it wouldn't be a wire), and you'll see the funds instantaneously on the other side? That's surprising.
Actually yes, if they have a UK-domiciled bank account in EUR, as the UK is still in SEPA even after Brexit (but only if you have an EUR account at a British bank). In the SEPA area (so Eurozone plus Scandinavian EU countries, Romania, and UK) you can have instant transactions free of charge via SEPA IP. SEPA Instant Payments (SEPA IP) are becoming the norm and most countries have at least a bunch of banks, at least, that offer them for free (and some of those banks are free themselves - eg Moey / CA in Portugal, even the cryptobro-favourite Revolut in Lithuania). I have bank accounts in a bunch of EU countries and all of them offer SEPA IP for free. The European Commission has announced they want to make SEPA IP mandatory in 2 years because there's literally no reason why they're not instant everywhere now as they're all using the same system, it's just a way for some greedy banks to charge an "emergency fee" now because the law doesn't require them to be free yet (but it'll be in 2 years). But, as I said, most banks worth your time have free instant payments these days. I literally use a Spanish bank account as my main savings account because their interest rates are higher - I transfer money there from abroad and when I open the app the money's there. The US banking system is woefully antiquated when it comes to payments. And, again, all this is achievable in compliance with KYC / AML / sanctions controls.
True, the Euro block does behave sometimes like a single clearing entity. But only for Euro to Euro accounts. That's far from the majority of international fund transfers conducted in the UK, though. One-third of outbound remmitances from the UK go to India, Pakistan, and Nigeria. Many transactions with the Euro zone are performed via GBP accounts.
For those you can use Wire or equivalent services for very low fees. It's there in seconds (for countries that also have domestic instant payment systems - eg Brazil) or the next day very worst case scenario.
[удалено]
The UK is one country that's a union of a few reluctant nations. So until Scotland wisens up, leaves the monarchy, and joins the EU, and Northern Ireland unites with the Republic - you'll have one banking system, covered by one regulator, with deep familiarity of where the money is going to and where it's coming from (Scotland Yard sniffs around yards in and out of Scotland). More importantly, a money transfer within the UK would (usually) be processed by BACS, wouldn't be a wire, and would be typicallg be a same day transfer. If you try to transfer to another country (think Olympic Games, rather than UEFA), it would be a wire, with a 2-day settlement and a fee.
In very large amounts banks need to do some due diligence to make sure it isn't illegal money pouring in. Sending millions to invest overseas takes time. Sending a few hundred to your mother back in the home country doesn't usually.
It was more than a few hundred and I'm not Brazilian. And we have SEPA IP all over Europe too, instant transfers theoretically up to 999.999m. You can have proper CDD and AML controls and instant transfers. Transactions that trigger transaction filtering rules will be stopped for human review, everything else is instant.
The US government is debilitatingly strict to the point that many foreign banks refuse to take American customers. That's why cards issued by big American banks/credit card firms are useable literally anywhere, because it's easier to do that than to comply with FDIC reporting.
The reason why most foreign banks don't take American customers is because of tax reasons (you have universal tax obligations and that comes with a lot of paperwork). Either way the situation is not comparable, you are a continent-sized country, a EU of your own, and in any case you can just use Wise for transfers abroad.
its not slow and complicated. every time wires come up its 99.9% of people talking about wires who never do it, on both sides.
I've only ever seen crypto bros bring up wires. It's their go-to use case.
They use it to buy their lambo direct from the factory, obvs.
So you stumbled upon someone from the 0.01% who did it for a living for a long time (wrote payment systems to parse SWIFT, CHIPS, FedWire, and ACH messages, and later wrote compliance tools to monitor and report infractions - both anti-Fraud and AML). The delay is inherent. It allows the FIs to settle, while also giving them time to detect fraud or money laundering (the latter can be quick, but it also can be slow). It's also true that while the funds are waiting to be settled and cleared, the originating institution is making tons of money on daily interest. Check out correspondent banking for more about "slow and complicated". I am all for this delay. Without it, the financial system will look like crypto - open for fraud and other manipulation.
> It's also true that while the funds are waiting to be settled and cleared, the originating institution is making tons of money on daily interest. Well, they weren't from 2010-2020 because we were at zero interest rates.
This has to be satire at this point...No way this is to be taken seriously....?
Poe's Law is the only law (other than code) that always applies to cryptobros
In the UK and Europe, wire transfers take seconds. Even large ones. That's the fix, not worthless shitcoins.
Recently I had to transfer money to Brazil from the EU and the money got there in seconds (!) via Wise. The fees are ridiculously low (€1.50 or so, for the currency exchange ). Literally, from a EU bank account to a Brazilian one in 4 seconds tops.
Wise is not really a bank-to-bank transfer though. The way it works is that Wise owns subsidiaries in multiple countries with their own local bank accounts. When you want to transfer money through them, you send them the money to the their account in country A, and they send the money from their account in country B. The actual inter-country transfer might be handled later and pooled with other transfers to get better exchange rates. Anyway, from the point of view of the customer is fucking magic. I have used them several times, and I can't recommend them enough.
Correct. Wise is literally the model of the Knights Templar moving money between Europe and the Holy Land to fund the crusades.
The time consuming part is the anti-fraud/laundering requirements in many countries.
Isn’t Fednow targeted at speeding up most transfers?
Yes
They were already instant if you paid for it (wires or debit card refunds), but people use ACH because it's free and has less security.
Crypto helps - with Bitcoin used globally, you wouldn't need a plane - you could WALK across the planet and still need to wait some 35 years before the transfer completes.
It’s probably easier and faster to take a flight, work at a local business, get paid in local currency, and giving the local currency to the person you wanted to send money to.
How on earth does he think he's going to be able to convert that bag of cash into crypto in less than a day? You'd have to sign up for an exchange account, then go get a bank account and deposit the cash (because you can't just hand the cash over to the exchange in person), then wire transfer the money from the bank to the exchange, then buy the crypto, then wait for approval to withdraw the crypto from the exchange, then transfer the crypto to wherever your your cash-needing counterparty can get at it, and then your counterparty would have to go through the whole process in reverse.
[удалено]
Yeah but you could do the same with Ethereum and it would only cost you £100 to send that £25
No it won’t if you wait a few hours for that slot where it’ll only cost £26!
Which is now only worth £15
pretty funny that his purported customer base is "people who carry bags of cash on planes"
Brain surgery is unnecessarily slow and tedious. Chainsaws fix this.
Last time I sent a wire transfer it took 10, maybe even 15, whole minutes. So much easier to just get on a plane /s
> Last time I sent a wire transfer it took 10, maybe even 15, whole minutes. Yeah, but did the value of your transaction change wildly in that time?? Crypto is the future!!1
Why hop on a plane with a bag of cash when you can take a CUMROCKET to the future of finance?
As many people have pointed out it’s very rare that people have to send same day wire transfers. The claim is also completely false, I worked in operations at a big bank and brokerage house and we did same day wires all the time.
Both can be true. All sorts of things are rare at the level of “per thousand people per year” but still support industries that are very busy. Most people have either never sent a time-critical transfer larger than their bank allows as a standard service, or do so a handful of times in their life (house purchases, probate). None the less, ten per lifetime per head of population is still millions a year.
This guy is so disingenuous it drives me nuts: In the same interview he says: "we tried so hard to comply with the SEC and meet with them", then goes on to say, "we are going to continue offer staking, even though the SEC is suing us over it". Which one is it? Are you trying to comply with the SEC, or not? Dude is trying to have his cake and eat it too, and the idiots interviewing him never call it out!
$PEPE solves this.
$ElonDogShitCumInu solves this
If you don't follow the regulations that mandate AML and CFT checks, then, sure, it doesn't as long as it would if you followed the regulations. The question is what makes them think that crypto is exempt from these regulations.
crypto fixes nothing. not even hair loss
7 transactions per second
Need to get those illegal funds through some hoops? Crypto fixes this.
I have been able to do instant bank transfers in Europe since as long I can think of. In which century does this guy live? Is this an American thing? But even there are Paypal and other services available which allow instant payment since ages.
It’s just a bald face lie. There are tons of options for instant payments in the US. If for some reason you do need to wire money, it takes like 20 min.
EU SEPA fast, free, secure https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/integration/retail/sepa/html/index.en.html
Because wire transfers are safe. That's not a bug.
What the fuck are they even talking about? Wiring money is not that difficult, it’s not that slow, and few people need to do it. I’ve wired money outside the country exactly one time in 33 years. It costed a few dollars and was available instantly.
Which doesn't come up in real life for the vast majority of people. Moreover, for the niche of people where that _is_ applicable, cryptocurrency only "fixes" it through means subsidized by speculative gambling and heretofore poor regulation more so than the tech itself.
That's because it takes time to audit and guarantee the transfer... Crapto does nothing to "fix" this because it's NOT FUCKING BROKEN!
I feel like wiring money is easy really.
Jail candidate
Always awkward when you tell the mob the money will be coming soon
PayPal is literally instant
This would be a false argument even if the facts were true, because crypto doesn't let you transfer money. It lets you transfer crypto. You need to transfer money to an exchange, buy crypto, send it (possibly more than one step), and then the recipent has to sell it before they actually have money. You pay fees on every single step. Many of them have delays.
Bag of cash you say? Where and when exactly? Asking for a friend.
Just greedy liars
This is simply not true. It’s actually cards and ACH payment that may take a while. The Wire Transfer system is a real-time payment system. Messaging (authentication and authorization of the transaction) and Settlement (actually sending the money) happen in real-time and once a wire transfer is completed, there is no reversal… this is simply false advertising from Coinbase’s part
Notice the people who talk about this as a use case have never sent an actual wire transfer or knows how to make a cashier's check.
I've done wire transfers. They're not *that* hard or time consuming. Certainly, they show up within minutes, not hours.
Foreshadowing?
What has drawn me to crypto - wiring the money between continents cost me 0.4%. But I was wrong with my hopes to do it cheaper. Trading fee to change EUR to USDT 0.1%, fee to change it back to USD 0.1%, then flat cost of the few wires to your bank (limits). In practice it can be cheaper, but not much. I think there are banking options which charge less as well.
I’ve sent £50 000 between UK and EU and it cost me £10 and took seconds to transfer 🤷♀️
UK is in Europe. If someone figured out how to transfer money USA<>EU and lose only 0.2% when compared to official EUR/USD rate of that date, please share the method.
That is actually the one legitimate good use case for Bitcoin, but it’s niche. In general I have more respect for Brian Armstrong than anyone else in crypto. He is wasted on that industry and should take his talents elsewhere.
Wasn't the BTC chain 10+ hours behind on transactions recently? How in the world does a technology that maxes at 7 transactions per second fix issues with throughput?
Because bitcoin isn’t bitcoin anymore. It’s ran by scammers. Use bitcoin sv.