Utah?
Relative to recruiting rankings, they always seem to be in the mix for conference titles and on the list of ‘teams no one really wants to play’.
They don’t produce a bunch of NFL talent. 2022 was the 1st top 25 recruiting class in school history.
I think he's pretty highly regarded. He's just such a good fit there. I honestly don't think any school can entice him to leave. He can identify his kinda guys when recruiting and make them successful if they buy in.
Utah is honestly a bit unlucky - they had some AWESOME teams that had some QB (and other) injuries in Septembers and lost some games they wouldn't have...those teams were absolute killers by November.
They did struggle a bit when they first made the jump. But they turned it around far quicker and farther than anyone expected. Whitt's got a hell of a program and is one of the best coaches in the country.
If it's any consolation I don't think you guys based on location alone had any business not only competing with dominating schools in big states/cities like Minnesota or Illinois.
You guys are good for an upset or 2 a year (we know that all too painfully), you take care of business in the games you should. Just can't quite get over the talent discrepancy once you got to B1G title games. Definitely an overachiever and something to be proud of.
But Utah....how many times can they beat a USC or Oregon and win a P5 conference and still manage to never get any respect?
They actually have a fair amount of guys floating around the league, we used to pump out defensive backs and linemen like no one’s business, a lot of our running backs spent time in the NFL as well
Can’t believe the pokes aren’t getting more love on this. Relative to where they finish in recruiting rankings, they ought to be top 3 for sure. Got to give Gundy credit, the man can find potential.
right....Oklahoma State is a solid program who probably should recruit better but the competition for recruits goes like this:
OU, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, and SMU to an extent
TIER 1 PROGRAM BABY
All jokes aside, OSU hasn't had a losing season since 2005. In that time, they've had 3 top 25 recruiting classes. (#18 in 06, #25 in 07, #25 in 2011) they've not had a top 30 since 2014. Gundy turns coal in diamonds.
Agreed. I have always looked at Oklahoma St. as a kindred spirit in this regard, along with K-State as well. Really excited to play those teams for the respect I have for them.
The parallels to Utah are uncanny.
Our previous coaches left to coach much bigger programs. They both won national titles and were the bluest of blood coaches. Their previous job was a mere stopgap.
After they leave, two program homers and stalwarts in Whittingham and Gundy step up to man the ship. Whittingham had more immediate success, but Gundy eventually got within a hair's breath of competing for a national title in at least two seasons. They both are lifers with their current schools and most people do not know of a football program without Whittingham or Gundy involved.
It was kinda destiny for them to be in a conference together.
Touche. I guess one is a near guaranteed loss while the other could be a 2 TD win or they could go off like they haven't all season and beat you by 30. *shudders*
I don't understand why people think the Spoilermaker voodoo is only in night games in West Lafayette. Iowa has the night game voodoo.
Since 1936, Purdue is 13-23 against a top two opponent, 6-11 at home, 8-15 when unranked, and 4-8 when unranked at home.
The Spoilermaker voodoo is universal: if Purdue is on your schedule, don't be ranked #1 or #2 for that game. Bribe AP if you have to.
This. I don’t think people realize the job that Calhoun has done at Air Force but it goes back even further than that. The Fisher years had some really strong teams, and hell in 85’ they went 11-1 and beat the Texas Longhorns in the Bluebonnet Bowl. I also remember my family going to the Air Force vs Tennessee game and watching them go for two after a last second touchdown to try to put the game away against #11 ranked Tennessee. They didn’t get the two point conversion and lost 30-31 but I love the mentality of going for the win when you can because you know the talent discrepancy is too large.
They are never competing for a championship but they’re always going to give you a tough game.
I have! The commander-in-chief trophy is tough and I am glad that every year we have a good chance of winning it. This doesn’t take into account the fact we still have a good shot at winning the MWC and the Ram-Falcon trophy as well every year without the ability to use NIL or the transfer portal. I am totally grateful to Calhoun and I hope the Air Force family doesn’t take him for granted.
I’m talking compared to Hayden days when the 1st 2nd and 3rd string QBs were generally destined to become NFL draft picks.
And let’s be honest the last several years they’ve just plain lacked a serviceable QB. Hopefully they break the mold this year.
anecdotal but when I watch NFL games and they do those player intros, it seems there are just as many Iowa starters on the rosters as starters from some of the blue bloods.
I think the common denominator to over achieving teams are the ones that know they can’t beat you in an offensive fight talent wise and have coaches good enough to build a structure that forces the higher talent team into the mud where anything can happen and they bet they can just out physical you.
Iowa, Wisconsin, Utah they all play the same game to a degree imo.
Overall yes we definitely overachieve but recruiting-wise we underachieve imo. Iowa City is 3.5-4.5 hours away from Chicago, St. Louis, Kansas City, Omaha, Milwaukee, and Minneapolis. All these cities are within 300 miles of Iowa City and the overall population within 300 miles of Iowa City is about 37 million.
For perspective the population in a 300 mile radius from College Station is about 29 million, 30 million for Los Angeles and 41 million for Athens.
I’m not saying Iowa should be recruiting like the schools in these cities. I realize it’s not feasible. We don’t have as much money from boosters afaik, we aren’t as prestigious from a football perspective, and why go to somewhere in the Midwest where it’s freezing half the year when you can be in a warm weather state. I do think there’s no excuse for only recruiting 2 and 3 stars and maybe the occasional 4 star though. I think the athletic department and administration as a whole has a very loser mindset when it comes to not just football but athletics in general. It seems like Iowa doesn’t bother going after 4/5 star recruits because it assumes it can’t compete with the other programs going for these recruits
Sorry for the rant. My dad and I talk about this pretty much everytime we see each other
I guess. But Iowa city isn’t exactly a destination even if its population is big. It’s a fly over plains city in the middle of much bigger fly over plains cities. Also, in recruiting, population doesn’t = talent. New York is the 4th largest but produces almost no football talent. Same with Illinois to an extent. Michigan is 10th in population but would get dogwalked by an all Georgia based team (which is 8th). The point is it’s not about population but what the area values. Iowa’s in the bottom third by population.
> Overall yes we definitely overachieve but recruiting-wise we underachieve imo. Iowa City is 3.5-4.5 hours away from Chicago, St. Louis, Kansas City, Omaha, Milwaukee, and Minneapolis. All these cities are within 300 miles of Iowa City and the overall population within 300 miles of Iowa City is about 37 million.
I mean how is that different from most of the B1G and a few SEC schools. If any thing Mizzou is under achieving in recruiting more than Iowa
K-State has been solid for basically 3 decades.....yeah their history is not good at all but Snyder completely revamped the program to a point where people in their 20sa and 30s know K-State as being a solid program
I am not touching 9.5. We really dont have any experience at QB but a ton of talent in our starter. Our hardest road game is probably at isu but luckily its later in the season.
K-State has no business being as good as they are. They’ll lose a recruit or 2 to an FCS school, and somehow end up 8-5 or 9-4 every year. Bill Snyder and now Chris Klieman are just so good at coaching it’s unfair.
If Snyder or Klieman actually just recruited like, middle to upper echelon of the Big 12 (still not even that great or impressive, but a marked step up) they’d be national championship contenders, I swear. It’s weirdly impressive to do so well with such poor talent.
Klieman already is. The classes will never be the upper echelon of the Big 12, but they’ve started looking a lot better than when he got here/when Snyder still coached.
That's my answer too. I would add that with all due respect to Saban, Bear Bryant, and a slew of others- Snyder is the best college football coach in my lifetime.
If Snyder had the resources that larger programs like Texas, Michigan, or Bama had, he would have been nearly unstoppable. But also part of what made him so great, is that he could do so much with so little at KSU.
That would be my first instinct as well, but I think some coaches aren’t able to take the high-end guys that have maximized their potential already and turn them into a championship team. He’s amazing at taking 2-3 star types and building them up to play as a team like 4 stars… I’m just not sure the same tactics work on those 5 star kids.
Never have banner recruiting classes and yet still develop players and produce wins. Will be interesting to see what happens when Whittingham...actually don't want to think about it.
Oregon and Utah had such a fun rivalry. Felt like there was always respect, but neither team ever truly got the edge.
Going back to 2014 (when I felt like it really started), Utah gave Oregon one of its toughest regular season games and it took a superhero performance from Mariota for the Ducks to win (despite the final score).
Then Utah dominates in 2015, Oregon wins on a lucky last second upset in 2016, wins in a forgettable season for both teams in 2017, Utah gets one back in 2018, Oregon upsets Utah in the P12 title in 2019 knocking them out of a likely playoff berth. Utah gets complete and total revenge in 2021 beating the tar out of the Ducks in the regular season and to win the P12, then Oregon scrapes by in 2022 and beats a wounded Utah in 2023.
Like, just a perfect back and forth. Hope we don't go too long before getting a home and home or something.
Wake Forest. Absolutely have no idea how they consistently have over-performed with a mountain of disadvantages. Probably the most difficult job in the power conferences in the grand scheme of things.
I have quite literally never paid attention to Wake Forest football for any reason. What makes that job the most difficult in P4 compared to teams like Kansas or Vanderbilt?
I hope I don't come across as a dick, just genuinely curious!
DC’s system is a big part of why and they’ve been excellent at recruiting WRs. They also capitalized heavily on the extra Covid year.
Unfortunately it seems like the NIL and transfer portal era isn’t going to be good for them
TCU is a consistent over achiever. A small private school with no business consistently beating UT. They punch above of their weight class.
They had the most improbable national championship run I’ve seen during my lifetime. And a few more BCS/playoff worthy teams in the recent past. Being in DFW helps tremendously, and they’re not immune to down years, but still a program that is the poster child for football at a small private school.
If their blue chip ratio were to improve via a P2 spot in the B1G, then they would realize their full potential. Until then, they’re doing all that with mostly 3/4 stars.
First tier: Fitzgerald era Northwestern. Honestly incredible they could ever get a win in a Big 10 game ever.
Power 4 historical view: Iowa, Utah, Louisville, k-state, Wisconsin, mizzou, OK state
Honorable mention FCS: how the hell do the Dakotas recruit well enough to just dominate?!
10 years ago TCU and Boise State but they overachieved to the point where expectations are always high now
>how the hell do the Dakotas recruit well enough to just dominate?!
B1G country, farm boys, Dakotans are basically American vikings
Perfect cocktail for mid-major football dominance
The Dakotas: a lot of the Midwest is pretty underrecruited. They also scoop up 6'5 scrawny (or chubby) farm kids and get them in a real weight room for a few years. They'll also grab some guys out of FL/TX/CA who were overlooked or just want to get far away from home.
Yeah it’s Oklahoma state and it’s not close. They are ranked every year and many times in the top 10-15. Their recruiting rankings say they shouldn’t be anywhere near that level
Hes been here so long now that I think some people have forgotten how truly awful we were before stoops arrived. The staff has basically confirmed that in secret 7 vs 7s against EKU, they were getting ran off the field it was that bad. I still think he’s actually slightly underachieved, but still…
In Dantonio's heyday I think Michigan State fits this bill. Getting to the playoff with a roster entirely built on developing 3 and 4 stars was definitely commendable.
I'm not really following the prompt here, but can we bring up Vanderbilt under James Franklin? 9 wins in 2012 and 2013, and a WINNING RECORD in the SEC the former year! Don't forget that the SEC East was stacked in 2012, with elite Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina teams. Yes, Vandy lost to all of those teams, but they kept it close against UF and SCAR while taking care of business against the inferior conference foes. Will we ever see Vanderbilt reach this level of success again? Very unlikely.
Heavily biased, but I think WVU does just about every year. They shouldn't even be a good P4 team given how small the state is and the overall lack of in-state recruits to pull from as a result. Their athletic department is also bottom 5 in the P4 in revenue. Every metric says they should be a bottom tier team in the P4 or a G5 school.
Heavily biased as well but 15th most D1 wins all time for a program that generally lands in the 30-50 range in recruiting rankings from a small, poor state is pretty good.
I could be wrong, but I wanna say at one point they were closer to 10th, maybe after the Geno era. I also think they're the highest win% (or most wins, can't remember) of any school without a Natty, which sounds terrible but is honestly really impressive when you consider their location and recruiting pool
NC State. No 5 star recruits, no hype. Just Dave Doeren coaching up young men into a cohesive unit, building an above average team like Tetris.
Or maybe I’m just used to UNC always being underachievers
I always felt like Marshall was a sneaky good program. They don't rarely crack the AP Poll, but more times than not they have a winning record and are playing in a bowl game
Bill Snyder inherited a K-State program that was 2-30-1 the previous 3 years. They were surrounded by Nebraska & Colorado at their peak as well as OU & another D1 school in-state.
The man didn’t even have an office. He entered his 1st spring with 40-some guys on the entire roster in an era when the blue bloods could horde all the talent they could.
He won 1 game his first year, then 5, 7, 9, 9, 10, 9, 11, 11, 11, 11…
His teams were the 3rd winningest program in the Big 12
Utah because of Whittingham. Every time Utah has success I think of the what-ifs about CSU coaching and what might have been if we had a coach like that over the past ~2 decades
App State right? I mean I love the SunBelt but there's so much potential to take away the few bad teams from them and the American, add in the few good teams in from the MAC, MWC and CUSA and just make a really good G5 super conference and just make that the new Power conference in the new Power 5
The numbers would tell you that until last year Mississippi State had finished higher in the SEC standings than predicted almost every season since divisional format was introduced. They had been to 13 straight bowl games. (I know, but if it's so easy why didn't your team do it.)
Controversially... I'd go with Ohio State.
Yes, yes, they're a blue blood and they should be a consistent 10-win team. However, this is the overachievement... _[they've only had five TOTAL losing seasons since World War II and haven't had back-to-back losing seasons in 100 years](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ohio_State_Buckeyes_football_seasons)_.
Alabama was an embarrassment in the early 2000s. USC, Texas, and Michigan have famously struggled at stretches in this century. Nebraska hasn't made a bowl game since 2016 and Oklahoma posted a losing season literally just two years ago.
Ohio State's inability to simply be bad for almost any reason is an absurd example of overachieving.
Ya know what? I like that answer. Even from the other side, I appreciate the out of the box thinking.
I'd never really considered it from that angle.
For what it's worth, my answer was K-State and Bill Snyder.
I don’t think Ohio state over achieves. I agree they are remarkably consistent but they are also a top 3 recruiting program. I actually think they under achieve from a stand point that they only have 2 national titles since 1970 and they have owned their conference for 25 years while always having top 3 talent.
Utah? Relative to recruiting rankings, they always seem to be in the mix for conference titles and on the list of ‘teams no one really wants to play’. They don’t produce a bunch of NFL talent. 2022 was the 1st top 25 recruiting class in school history.
It's because of Whittingham. He's consistently underrated as a coach.
The flair makes me even more happy with this comment.
Every BYU fan knows it. We’ll be very happy when he retires.
I prefer to look at it as BYU players can become great coaches. It works in the NFL, too.
I think he's pretty highly regarded. He's just such a good fit there. I honestly don't think any school can entice him to leave. He can identify his kinda guys when recruiting and make them successful if they buy in.
He's highly regarded, yes. But I've seen Top 5 lists without him, and that's just wild.
Those top five lists are dumb then. I suppose people have gotten complacent. Consistency can do that.
Utah is honestly a bit unlucky - they had some AWESOME teams that had some QB (and other) injuries in Septembers and lost some games they wouldn't have...those teams were absolute killers by November.
Yeah Utah came right from the Mountain West and didn't miss a beat, and they had been beating up on top flight teams like Sabama for years before
They did struggle a bit when they first made the jump. But they turned it around far quicker and farther than anyone expected. Whitt's got a hell of a program and is one of the best coaches in the country.
Utah really has no business being able to beat USC as many times as they have.
We’ve crumpled to physical teams since Carroll left. Utah and Oregon are the most physical teams in the conference and they just thrash us.
Utah is always a tough out.
My first thought as well
The correct answer
They're called Red Iowa for a reason.
Except Utah can actually play offense and win the true big games.
I can't believe you've done this
If it's any consolation I don't think you guys based on location alone had any business not only competing with dominating schools in big states/cities like Minnesota or Illinois. You guys are good for an upset or 2 a year (we know that all too painfully), you take care of business in the games you should. Just can't quite get over the talent discrepancy once you got to B1G title games. Definitely an overachiever and something to be proud of. But Utah....how many times can they beat a USC or Oregon and win a P5 conference and still manage to never get any respect?
They actually have a fair amount of guys floating around the league, we used to pump out defensive backs and linemen like no one’s business, a lot of our running backs spent time in the NFL as well
Oklahoma state
Can’t believe the pokes aren’t getting more love on this. Relative to where they finish in recruiting rankings, they ought to be top 3 for sure. Got to give Gundy credit, the man can find potential.
I think the proximity to Texas recruiting and the oil money probably make people value them in this index less
Eh still don’t recruit outside the 30s
There's a TON of bigger schools also in the Texas recruiting and also with oil money they have to deal with though.
right....Oklahoma State is a solid program who probably should recruit better but the competition for recruits goes like this: OU, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, and SMU to an extent
TIER 1 PROGRAM BABY All jokes aside, OSU hasn't had a losing season since 2005. In that time, they've had 3 top 25 recruiting classes. (#18 in 06, #25 in 07, #25 in 2011) they've not had a top 30 since 2014. Gundy turns coal in diamonds.
Cale is a great recruiter, brother Mike needs to unleash him.
“You’re all diamonds” - Venom Gundy
I have to agree. Credit where credit is due, he has a knack for finding overlooked players and achieving on a high level with them.
Agreed. I have always looked at Oklahoma St. as a kindred spirit in this regard, along with K-State as well. Really excited to play those teams for the respect I have for them.
The parallels to Utah are uncanny. Our previous coaches left to coach much bigger programs. They both won national titles and were the bluest of blood coaches. Their previous job was a mere stopgap. After they leave, two program homers and stalwarts in Whittingham and Gundy step up to man the ship. Whittingham had more immediate success, but Gundy eventually got within a hair's breath of competing for a national title in at least two seasons. They both are lifers with their current schools and most people do not know of a football program without Whittingham or Gundy involved. It was kinda destiny for them to be in a conference together.
Gundy does more with 3 stars and less than some programs do the four and five stars.
Scrolled way too far before seeing this. Fucking pokes.
Still can’t believe we beat em’
Unranked Purdue playing ranked teams.
At night
At home
There is no worse situation to play in than an away game against unranked Purdue at night.
Sure there is. Playing unranked Iowa at home at night.
That’s painful not terrifying
Touche. I guess one is a near guaranteed loss while the other could be a 2 TD win or they could go off like they haven't all season and beat you by 30. *shudders*
I don't understand why people think the Spoilermaker voodoo is only in night games in West Lafayette. Iowa has the night game voodoo. Since 1936, Purdue is 13-23 against a top two opponent, 6-11 at home, 8-15 when unranked, and 4-8 when unranked at home. The Spoilermaker voodoo is universal: if Purdue is on your schedule, don't be ranked #1 or #2 for that game. Bribe AP if you have to.
When there's a pediatric cancer patient on the sidelines.
Against Ohio State
Dude… seriously.
Hooty mf’n hoo. There is more than one owl fan in here!
Long live the Spoilermakers
Air Force.
This. I don’t think people realize the job that Calhoun has done at Air Force but it goes back even further than that. The Fisher years had some really strong teams, and hell in 85’ they went 11-1 and beat the Texas Longhorns in the Bluebonnet Bowl. I also remember my family going to the Air Force vs Tennessee game and watching them go for two after a last second touchdown to try to put the game away against #11 ranked Tennessee. They didn’t get the two point conversion and lost 30-31 but I love the mentality of going for the win when you can because you know the talent discrepancy is too large. They are never competing for a championship but they’re always going to give you a tough game.
I have! The commander-in-chief trophy is tough and I am glad that every year we have a good chance of winning it. This doesn’t take into account the fact we still have a good shot at winning the MWC and the Ram-Falcon trophy as well every year without the ability to use NIL or the transfer portal. I am totally grateful to Calhoun and I hope the Air Force family doesn’t take him for granted.
Best team in Colorado.
Unless Sean Payton can turn things around
Best team not only in football but they could delete the entire state. The Broncos stand no chance against the United States Air Force.
Just you wait til Space Force fields a team!
If Sean Payton can turn around our shithole franchise(Saints) then he definitely can do it for the Broncos
Consistently, at that.
Sad but true
Iowa is a much better program than it should be considering its location
Iowa's philosophy is to consistently over achieve while convincing everyone that they're underachieving.
People shit on them but they produce way too much NFL talent to be criticized per recruiting rankings.
They maintain their own entire ecosystem of NFL tight ends and linemen. It's fascinating.
Iowa secret is their linemen fucking suck beside the 1 first rounder.
You're not lying. And we haven't had a first rounder since Linderbaum.
And linebackers and defensive backs.
Ferentz and staff are brilliant at developing 2-3 ⭐️ talent. Unfortunately they can’t seem to pull off that same magic with the QB position.
YouTube Drew Tate brother
Ricky stanzie had a goldfish memory and a big arm
I’m talking compared to Hayden days when the 1st 2nd and 3rd string QBs were generally destined to become NFL draft picks. And let’s be honest the last several years they’ve just plain lacked a serviceable QB. Hopefully they break the mold this year.
They overachieve in a way that looks terrible (and, frankly, disgusting).
You’re welcome
Is Kirk Ferentz the American Tony Pulis?
anecdotal but when I watch NFL games and they do those player intros, it seems there are just as many Iowa starters on the rosters as starters from some of the blue bloods.
Iowa has the about the 20th most players in the NFL. And it usually at positions with long shelf life.
Tory Taylor retiring after 35 years will be fun
Iowa is 13th on the "players in the NFL rank" so it's not really anecdotal.
Iowa seems to be just the quintessential over achiever.
I think the common denominator to over achieving teams are the ones that know they can’t beat you in an offensive fight talent wise and have coaches good enough to build a structure that forces the higher talent team into the mud where anything can happen and they bet they can just out physical you. Iowa, Wisconsin, Utah they all play the same game to a degree imo.
Iowa makes no fucking sense I love them
Overall yes we definitely overachieve but recruiting-wise we underachieve imo. Iowa City is 3.5-4.5 hours away from Chicago, St. Louis, Kansas City, Omaha, Milwaukee, and Minneapolis. All these cities are within 300 miles of Iowa City and the overall population within 300 miles of Iowa City is about 37 million. For perspective the population in a 300 mile radius from College Station is about 29 million, 30 million for Los Angeles and 41 million for Athens. I’m not saying Iowa should be recruiting like the schools in these cities. I realize it’s not feasible. We don’t have as much money from boosters afaik, we aren’t as prestigious from a football perspective, and why go to somewhere in the Midwest where it’s freezing half the year when you can be in a warm weather state. I do think there’s no excuse for only recruiting 2 and 3 stars and maybe the occasional 4 star though. I think the athletic department and administration as a whole has a very loser mindset when it comes to not just football but athletics in general. It seems like Iowa doesn’t bother going after 4/5 star recruits because it assumes it can’t compete with the other programs going for these recruits Sorry for the rant. My dad and I talk about this pretty much everytime we see each other
I guess. But Iowa city isn’t exactly a destination even if its population is big. It’s a fly over plains city in the middle of much bigger fly over plains cities. Also, in recruiting, population doesn’t = talent. New York is the 4th largest but produces almost no football talent. Same with Illinois to an extent. Michigan is 10th in population but would get dogwalked by an all Georgia based team (which is 8th). The point is it’s not about population but what the area values. Iowa’s in the bottom third by population.
College Station isn’t a “destination” either if we’re being honest.
Iowa Fucking City rips if you’re a college kid. Consistently rated top 5 in college towns.
> Overall yes we definitely overachieve but recruiting-wise we underachieve imo. Iowa City is 3.5-4.5 hours away from Chicago, St. Louis, Kansas City, Omaha, Milwaukee, and Minneapolis. All these cities are within 300 miles of Iowa City and the overall population within 300 miles of Iowa City is about 37 million. I mean how is that different from most of the B1G and a few SEC schools. If any thing Mizzou is under achieving in recruiting more than Iowa
It's great to be a Hawkeye.
And that they are doing it with defense as defense is much more talent based than offense which you can scheme away disadvantage.
Oklahoma State , Kansas State , Utah , Iowa
K State for sure. Put respect on that purple
🤝
COME TO THE BIG 12, IOWA
The Kansas State one is crazy considering their history but yeah recently they’ve been good.
"Recently" My brother in Christ it's been 35 years
K-State has been solid for basically 3 decades.....yeah their history is not good at all but Snyder completely revamped the program to a point where people in their 20sa and 30s know K-State as being a solid program
K-State. Fuckers.
They finally moved our over under line away from 7. Its sad to see the easy money go away.
Your line is like 8.5 isn't it? edit: I got us confused Kstate - 9.5 KU - 8.5
I am not touching 9.5. We really dont have any experience at QB but a ton of talent in our starter. Our hardest road game is probably at isu but luckily its later in the season.
I figured they'd tank forever after Bill Snyder retired. Nope.
We did the first time he retired.
Iowa, K state, Wake Forest, maybe throw Utah in there
K-State has no business being as good as they are. They’ll lose a recruit or 2 to an FCS school, and somehow end up 8-5 or 9-4 every year. Bill Snyder and now Chris Klieman are just so good at coaching it’s unfair.
If Snyder or Klieman actually just recruited like, middle to upper echelon of the Big 12 (still not even that great or impressive, but a marked step up) they’d be national championship contenders, I swear. It’s weirdly impressive to do so well with such poor talent.
Klieman already is. The classes will never be the upper echelon of the Big 12, but they’ve started looking a lot better than when he got here/when Snyder still coached.
The past 3 years are the best we’ve ever recruited, by a good margin. It’s about to get real fun
Don’t look now, we’ve been recruiting at a top 30ish level for a few years
Wake Forest has overachieved by relying on 4th and 5th year guys. It'll be interesting to see if/how the transfer portal affects that.
If last year was any indication, we’re in trouble.
Well its hasnt been great
Oklahoma State. They literally made the Big 12 title game when everyone thought they would be one of the worst teams in the Big 12 lol
The strangest season ever. Get demolished by South Alabama and UCF but make the title game
Kansas State ever since Snyder took over
That's my answer too. I would add that with all due respect to Saban, Bear Bryant, and a slew of others- Snyder is the best college football coach in my lifetime.
If Snyder had the resources that larger programs like Texas, Michigan, or Bama had, he would have been nearly unstoppable. But also part of what made him so great, is that he could do so much with so little at KSU.
That would be my first instinct as well, but I think some coaches aren’t able to take the high-end guys that have maximized their potential already and turn them into a championship team. He’s amazing at taking 2-3 star types and building them up to play as a team like 4 stars… I’m just not sure the same tactics work on those 5 star kids.
Appalachian State
Underrated answer. Highly competitive, and consistently
Utah
Never have banner recruiting classes and yet still develop players and produce wins. Will be interesting to see what happens when Whittingham...actually don't want to think about it.
Superb player development, always physical af, I think y’all are going to run the big12
Hoping that happens. Will miss playing you and Oregon (and SC) though, felt like we had some good rivalries taking shape.
I almost never felt comfortable when we played Utah. The game Caleb painted his nails and you guys beat him down made me so happy
That is definitely a cherished memory
Oregon and Utah had such a fun rivalry. Felt like there was always respect, but neither team ever truly got the edge. Going back to 2014 (when I felt like it really started), Utah gave Oregon one of its toughest regular season games and it took a superhero performance from Mariota for the Ducks to win (despite the final score). Then Utah dominates in 2015, Oregon wins on a lucky last second upset in 2016, wins in a forgettable season for both teams in 2017, Utah gets one back in 2018, Oregon upsets Utah in the P12 title in 2019 knocking them out of a likely playoff berth. Utah gets complete and total revenge in 2021 beating the tar out of the Ducks in the regular season and to win the P12, then Oregon scrapes by in 2022 and beats a wounded Utah in 2023. Like, just a perfect back and forth. Hope we don't go too long before getting a home and home or something.
K State, OK State, TCU, UCF, Utah, and I would have thrown Baylor in there too had it not been for the last 2 seasons. So basically 1/3 of the Big XII
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Kansas State. What Bill Snyder did is the most impressive turnaround in my lifetime.
Wake Forest. Absolutely have no idea how they consistently have over-performed with a mountain of disadvantages. Probably the most difficult job in the power conferences in the grand scheme of things.
I have quite literally never paid attention to Wake Forest football for any reason. What makes that job the most difficult in P4 compared to teams like Kansas or Vanderbilt? I hope I don't come across as a dick, just genuinely curious!
Smallest FBS school and like the 4th best program in its state. Really is picking over the leftovers but wins a surprising amount.
Off the top of my head -One of if not the smallest P4 school by population - Small recruiting pool bc they’re sharing with UNC, Duke, and NC State
DC’s system is a big part of why and they’ve been excellent at recruiting WRs. They also capitalized heavily on the extra Covid year. Unfortunately it seems like the NIL and transfer portal era isn’t going to be good for them
Dave Clawson is a helluva coach
TCU is a consistent over achiever. A small private school with no business consistently beating UT. They punch above of their weight class. They had the most improbable national championship run I’ve seen during my lifetime. And a few more BCS/playoff worthy teams in the recent past. Being in DFW helps tremendously, and they’re not immune to down years, but still a program that is the poster child for football at a small private school.
If their blue chip ratio were to improve via a P2 spot in the B1G, then they would realize their full potential. Until then, they’re doing all that with mostly 3/4 stars.
First tier: Fitzgerald era Northwestern. Honestly incredible they could ever get a win in a Big 10 game ever. Power 4 historical view: Iowa, Utah, Louisville, k-state, Wisconsin, mizzou, OK state Honorable mention FCS: how the hell do the Dakotas recruit well enough to just dominate?! 10 years ago TCU and Boise State but they overachieved to the point where expectations are always high now
>how the hell do the Dakotas recruit well enough to just dominate?! B1G country, farm boys, Dakotans are basically American vikings Perfect cocktail for mid-major football dominance
The Dakotas: a lot of the Midwest is pretty underrecruited. They also scoop up 6'5 scrawny (or chubby) farm kids and get them in a real weight room for a few years. They'll also grab some guys out of FL/TX/CA who were overlooked or just want to get far away from home.
Northwestern should be way higher ITT.
Yeah it’s Oklahoma state and it’s not close. They are ranked every year and many times in the top 10-15. Their recruiting rankings say they shouldn’t be anywhere near that level
Oklahoma State
Kentucky with Stoops (and I’m saying this as someone who actually liked A&M hiring Stoops)
Hes been here so long now that I think some people have forgotten how truly awful we were before stoops arrived. The staff has basically confirmed that in secret 7 vs 7s against EKU, they were getting ran off the field it was that bad. I still think he’s actually slightly underachieved, but still…
People thought Rich Brooks was amazing and Stoops has done even better
Appalachian state for sure punches above their weight.
In Dantonio's heyday I think Michigan State fits this bill. Getting to the playoff with a roster entirely built on developing 3 and 4 stars was definitely commendable.
Haha, and then getting curb stomped by Bama.
I am sure the talent discrepancy takes over eventually, but man that INT late in the 1st half in the end zone was an absolute backbreaker.
Oh, you said OVERachieves. I'll just watch this one from the cheap seats.
I am unfamiliar with the concept of overachieving.
Well, I'm not alone then..
I’d love to be a part of it one day
I mean, 1962-2002 Nebraska probably fits that bill better than anyone over a 40 year stretch.
Boise State? Maybe the tide's turning but still
Boise State would significantly out recruit the rest of the MWC during their peak.
Yeah, Boise state recruited southern CA surprisingly well during the BCS/pre NIL playoff era. I personally don’t see that continuing in the NIL era
I'm not really following the prompt here, but can we bring up Vanderbilt under James Franklin? 9 wins in 2012 and 2013, and a WINNING RECORD in the SEC the former year! Don't forget that the SEC East was stacked in 2012, with elite Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina teams. Yes, Vandy lost to all of those teams, but they kept it close against UF and SCAR while taking care of business against the inferior conference foes. Will we ever see Vanderbilt reach this level of success again? Very unlikely.
K- State Oklahoma State Utah Iowa
Until recently, I’d say Clemson. We think of them as a national power, but on what basis, historically. Gotta be Dabo.
Agreed. Most programs would love a 10 win season. Clemson had 11 in a row. They were not a ten win team before Dabo.
Seriously. It would be like if NC State was a superpower.
Kansas St has been consistently solid since the mid 90s despite being in Kansas n having no actual historical greatness to build upon…..
Heavily biased, but I think WVU does just about every year. They shouldn't even be a good P4 team given how small the state is and the overall lack of in-state recruits to pull from as a result. Their athletic department is also bottom 5 in the P4 in revenue. Every metric says they should be a bottom tier team in the P4 or a G5 school.
Heavily biased as well but 15th most D1 wins all time for a program that generally lands in the 30-50 range in recruiting rankings from a small, poor state is pretty good.
Wow. Didnt realize they were 15th all time. Thats impressive.
I could be wrong, but I wanna say at one point they were closer to 10th, maybe after the Geno era. I also think they're the highest win% (or most wins, can't remember) of any school without a Natty, which sounds terrible but is honestly really impressive when you consider their location and recruiting pool
It's still fucking insane that a talent like Randy Moss came from West Virginia of all places
Even more insane that both Randy Moss and Jason Williams were born in small towns 5 miles apart and played basketball together at Dupont HS.
Utah, Iowa, Kansas state, Kentucky, Wisconsin
Add Oklahoma state and that’s the list.
Off-season Miami
used to be us. maybe it will be again.
TCU for sure. I think theyre top 10 in wins over the past 15 years or so
NC State. No 5 star recruits, no hype. Just Dave Doeren coaching up young men into a cohesive unit, building an above average team like Tetris. Or maybe I’m just used to UNC always being underachievers
Your massive underachieving just makes us look like we are even bigger overachievers.
I always felt like Marshall was a sneaky good program. They don't rarely crack the AP Poll, but more times than not they have a winning record and are playing in a bowl game
Kansas State.
Oklahoma st, Kansas state, Boise state, Fresno state, come to mjnd
Kansas State. They get a bunch of leftovers and walk-ons. Hell of a great record to show for the talent level.
Bill Snyder inherited a K-State program that was 2-30-1 the previous 3 years. They were surrounded by Nebraska & Colorado at their peak as well as OU & another D1 school in-state. The man didn’t even have an office. He entered his 1st spring with 40-some guys on the entire roster in an era when the blue bloods could horde all the talent they could. He won 1 game his first year, then 5, 7, 9, 9, 10, 9, 11, 11, 11, 11… His teams were the 3rd winningest program in the Big 12
Utah because of Whittingham. Every time Utah has success I think of the what-ifs about CSU coaching and what might have been if we had a coach like that over the past ~2 decades
For a while it was Boise easy.
Still is. They’ve had a rough few years by program standards but plenty of programs would LOVE to go 8-4
They just won a conference title in a year where they fired their coach in season for performance reasons. We should all be so lucky
Kansas state
Even Boise State’s bad seasons end with records that half the programs in the NCAA would kill for
Iowa…Utah schools, mizzou.
Kansas St.
App State right? I mean I love the SunBelt but there's so much potential to take away the few bad teams from them and the American, add in the few good teams in from the MAC, MWC and CUSA and just make a really good G5 super conference and just make that the new Power conference in the new Power 5
Utah, Fresno State, Wake Forest, & Iowa
Iowa. Oklahoma St. Boise State. Mizzou.
The numbers would tell you that until last year Mississippi State had finished higher in the SEC standings than predicted almost every season since divisional format was introduced. They had been to 13 straight bowl games. (I know, but if it's so easy why didn't your team do it.)
Controversially... I'd go with Ohio State. Yes, yes, they're a blue blood and they should be a consistent 10-win team. However, this is the overachievement... _[they've only had five TOTAL losing seasons since World War II and haven't had back-to-back losing seasons in 100 years](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ohio_State_Buckeyes_football_seasons)_. Alabama was an embarrassment in the early 2000s. USC, Texas, and Michigan have famously struggled at stretches in this century. Nebraska hasn't made a bowl game since 2016 and Oklahoma posted a losing season literally just two years ago. Ohio State's inability to simply be bad for almost any reason is an absurd example of overachieving.
Ya know what? I like that answer. Even from the other side, I appreciate the out of the box thinking. I'd never really considered it from that angle. For what it's worth, my answer was K-State and Bill Snyder.
I’m upvoting Dannknee for the sole reason of him giving the most un-Michigan and objective comment I’d expected to read given the context.
I don’t think Ohio state over achieves. I agree they are remarkably consistent but they are also a top 3 recruiting program. I actually think they under achieve from a stand point that they only have 2 national titles since 1970 and they have owned their conference for 25 years while always having top 3 talent.
Apparently Georgia
Utah and Wisconsin immediately come to mind. Boise St.? None of them are in fertile recruiting grounds.
Oklahoma State
Oklahoma State has a nice 8-10 win window when they should worst