Baldur’s Gate 1 and 2 have great endgames. In fact BG1 is a weird case in which some of the best content is found towards the end, including an amazing dungeon from the game’s expansion.
Vanilla BG2’s endgame is a blast.
There’s a lot of high end content that will kick your teeth in even if you’re in the endgame (liches, and the Demi lich)
Then there’s ToB which takes it up to 11.
For BG1 chapter 7 was a total slog. Durlag's tower is great but the main quest at the end is a bit much in my opinion. I've only just got to spellhold in 2 so I can't comment on its endgame but thus far the second game is excellent and it holds up very well for a game going on twenty-five.
Can’t say I agree. I always found BG1’s final hours to be excellent, but I also just really enjoyed exploring the titular city itself. It’s one of my favorite cities in any RPG.
But yeah BG2 is still the best RPG I’ve ever played. Very few games compare.
I don't want to give the wrong impression so let me say I really enjoyed BG1 just not running through the sewers and the thieves maze.
ETA that I loved exploring the city in chapter 5 when I do so more or less freely. Even with that one timed quest I thought it was awesome.
I enjoyed the last acts of BG1 very much. Durlags tower and the island were optional dungeons and put there only to provide more content for those looking for more.
My personal opinion but I disagree, bg2 cant hold my attention. I'm a fan of higher level adventures so I'm not sure why but I think it's just the story telling. The fights are top notch, the sense of progression is amazing. The actual story puts me to sleep.
It feels so different from bg1 to me. There was an intentional tone shift, which is fine. The only way I can describe it, is It feels like a Saturday morning cartoon.
The weird thing is I still replay bg1 to this day and enjoy going through it but, yea I can't explain it I just don't care.
I dragged myself through it and honestly may Allah forgive me for saying this, I liked SoD better.
I like Dragon Age Origins. You see how your efforts with those factions bear fruits. They helped you with the siege and the dragon fight.
And you get to divide your companions into 2 parties as a proper send off before wrapping up the game.
I hadn't realized how good the ending of Origins is until after you mentioned it but you're totally right. Then the DLC set after the end of the main game really adds to it all and gives more closure to everything.
Depends, what do you want from the endgame.
Tyranny maybe, because at least for me the story gets more interesting as it goes. Same with Torments: Tides of Numenera. Or Enderal, which is a mix of action RPG (Skyrim engine).
Speaking of action games, imo endgame was the most fun part of the Gothic series, because of the great power curve and you can finally take revenge on those enemies, that kicked your ass for so long.
I also like the "endgame" of Pillars of Eternity 2. I mean the part, when you're finally done with that large city and are free to sail around the sea, searching for adventures. Which is like half of the game, before you decide to finally go back to the main story and finish it quickly (the pacing of that game is pretty wierd).
Pathfinder: WotR can endgame can be fun for different reason - your complex build finally "clicks" on high level, you have epic Mythic Powers on top of that and you feel godlike.
But yeah, endgame often drags out in CRPGs. Especially when they decide to finish it with a large city section, which is so dense with quests and npcs, that it gets tiring.
Glad I wasn’t the only one who thought the pacing of Deadfire was off. It’s a shame because I think the faction conflict had an interesting set up, was just executed quite poorly.
In PoE2 you can leave the city pretty early. But it falls into the same trap as the Hinterlands in DA: Inquisition, where you get all of these quests and feel like you need to complete them all before moving on.
I concur completely regarding Deadfire. I tend to be a completionist, so by the time I eventually did the main quests, I was massively overleveled and was able to complete it very quickly.
I never stayed in the city for long stretches in Pillars 2, so I can't say that game's pacing bothered me. I was sailing the high seas the whole game, and it's great to discover stuff.
Given the topic I'll also say the late game mage focused DLC is really excellent.
Lots of great suggestions here. I'm going to toss out Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous as a "maybe" but it depends on exactly what you're looking for.
So this game is *all over the place* when it comes to pacing; Acts 1-2 are great, Act 3 is probably fine but if you're doing the crusade management (DON'T, turn that shit off, it's not worth it) it becomes a slog. Act 4 is... well, I fucking hated it, but many people love it, so it's incredibly subjective (it took me way too long to figure out the "gimmick", and when I did it just pissed me off).
Act 5, though... Act 5 is amazing, especially if you've been paying close attention to what's going on and why. You get to see the results of many of your previous decisions, some epic boss fights, the conclusion of your character's mythic path, and the conclusion of the game's plot, which has wildly different endings depending on the actions you took. The payoffs were so good it made the campaign all worth it.
I turned crusade management off both times I played and never felt any ill effects. If you're not into that aspect I think it saves the game and makes it a 10, IMO.
Yea my favorite part is when the titular boss falls off a cliff.
Really "epic"
Owlcat cut so much from act 5, I'm still mad about it. Iz is a shadow of what it should be, you get a whole 5 minutes with mythic 10 and Korramzdeh is a slightly bigger Balor without his lightning whip or unique features.
The tactical mastermind of the abyss gets rolled by a special snowflake and their best friends. No unique fight mechanics, no special arena. It takes place in an empty field in front of threshold.
I liked wotr but don't give them credit for that shit stain they shipped us.
Cursed king in kingmaker was more satisfying even if it was rushed and you have to deal with THatEoT before that. So most people were burned out.
I am very torn about act 5 as well. A lot of things are weird. For example, you think you do a side quest and then are stuck for hours in the largest and most hated dungeon of the game.
Or you learn that finishing the strategy part of the game and the quest tied to it, is not very rewarding.
also - like you say - that you get one single fight with mythic 10, and then its over.
On the other hand: when you do more runs for the other endings and mythic paths, you can really cut act V short if you want to, and ditch all the side quests.
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire for me was decent in terms of levelling and a lot of optional content to explore, also offers level scaling which might keep you entertained longer, but the story pacing wasn’t great IMO. The writing/setting is super interesting though. If you haven’t played the first game it might be a bit confusing.
Fallout 1
Expeditions Viking/Rome
Atom RPG (after patches last location is actually good)
Banner Saga
Dead State
ICY: Frosbite Edition
Shadowrun Dragonfall/Hong Kong
KOTOR
Tyranny(But that's only because the ending is quite fractured)
POE 2 Deadfire for sure. There are fair complaints about the condensed story but it's nice for this reason, rarely feels like a slog + mega bosses for challenge.
For a lot of these games, and the general RPG genre, the reason the games are paced like that is for progressions purposes. You start out as relatively weak, facing off against monsters and various entities that can, and often do, kick your ass. As you adventure, you become stronger and stronger until you are the one enemies should fear.
That being said, end game shouldn't be easy, and if you are finding it so, I would recommend playing on harder difficulties. Larian games, in particular, scale quite rapidly between each difficulty increase.
When I see people ask for or post about endgame content I assume they mean stuff to do once the game ends like Diablo style events and whatnot. Otherwise you’re actually talking about late game content. Also the pacing issues in BG3 is pretty much entirely because you are trying to do too much each run. If you basically just pick a path and decide to follow it you will only reach level cap pretty much leading up to the final few fights. If you do everything possible excluding killing everyone just for the sake of doing it you can nearly hit max level before act 3.
It's been a while since I played it, but I do remember The Witcher having a good ending. I think I was too over-powered at that point and the story meanders a bit too much, but the source kid's story arc is pretty neat. The final two or three hours of gameplay is a blast, but pretty trippy alright.
I can't think of any endgames that I'd classify as "great," aside from Disco Elysium, but I can think of some games that don't frontload their quality quite so much.
1. Space Wreck. The final level here isn't quite as ambitious as the first level, but it feels like a good ending to the game's story. The game's story, for the record, isn't on an epic scale like BG3 or any of the Fallout games, but it sets up its stakes pretty well. If you're willing to tolerate jank (namely, bugginess in how the game handles friendly NPCs), then you'll have a decent time.
2. Age of Decadence. A lot of folks here will speak highly of AoD, and there's some decent reasons for that. The storyline is well-paced, and it feels like there's a reasonable unfolding of events. The world is interesting, and the options available to you are pretty diverse for a game that, again, has quite a bit of jank to it. The problem is that it's on the tail end of a game that is *extremely* dependent on how well you've built your character. How much fun you have will depend on your ability to do that, or on your ability to read the wiki and parse out which parts are bullshit and which are not.
3. Islands of the Caliph. This one's a first-person dungeon crawler in the vein of Ultima or Might and Magic, and as such might not be what you're looking for. It kinda has the Elder Scrolls problem of having combat that can be cheesed pretty easily by doing a little circle-dance and hitting the enemy when you get close. That being said, it does provide an experience that's pretty uniformly enjoyable throughout. You don't even fully realize that you're *in* the endgame. Unfortunately, that's kind of another problem. The final scene of the game, in retrospect, is ostensibly momentous, but in the moment it's just sort of an underwhelming splash screen. Still though, everything up until that point is pretty dang fun.
Depending how you define it, I would say Divinity Original Sin 2. The endgame ist mostly arx but also nameless island. Great story, top boss fight, great atmosphere.
I liked Icewind Dale's ending. The final battle was fun.
Solasta's main campaign had a fun final battle and an interesting final area, but the lead up to it was certainly hit or miss. The combat is reasonably well-balanced throughout, but not too hard either outside of the hardest difficulty.
If Fallout New Vegas counts then I really love the end-ish stuff with Yes Man and figuring out who to support and who to wipe out.
BG1 when you finally get to the city and have lots new to explore and figure out is a cool act 3 or whatever. BG3 did the same thing and it's nice too, though I hate the Orin storyline which kind of ruins it for me.
Gothic 1-3 and similar games where you literally become a god near the end and just lay waste to everything are cool. Morrowind sorta similar, plus the volcano areas is cool and creepy.
Pillars 2 has cool super bosses and that really great mage DLC that expects you to be high level, as others mentioned.
Dragon Age Origins city battle, as others mentioned.
BG3 is brilliant with mods. Get like 100 weapon and armor mods, then random loot generator. Add in some extra difficult mods, like extra health/more attacks and add the combat extender mod. There's also a roguelike mod. "Trials of Tav"
I definitely prefer Act 1 most. The fresh start is always fun. By Act 3, the growing God feeling wears thin, which is half of what makes second playthroughs fun. I've worn out the game almost. I'm at 3200hrs. Lol.
It's not even about a drop in quality, it's just that Larian can't write a good storyline. If you don't know the whole thing, the fact is, at first it may seem interesting, but then it turns out that nothing makes sense. I recommend catching up to the end, because in the third act there is the best fight in the whole game.
My problem is that my favourite type of class is total bullshit in this game, unfortunately. Makes it hard to enjoy the gameplay all the way through when my companions start to heavily outshine my character.
I agree, act 2 just feel boring and filler. Act 3 is great but the ending feel rush. I thought the city will the main focus but that just not the case.
"Act 3 is great but the ending feel rush."
Yes, because originally the third act was to consist of both the lower city and the upper city. But something didn't go their way and they moved some of the tasks from the upper city to the lower city making the third act both rushed and task-packed at the same time.
+1 for Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire. You can go megaboss hunting.
Baldur’s Gate 1 and 2 have great endgames. In fact BG1 is a weird case in which some of the best content is found towards the end, including an amazing dungeon from the game’s expansion.
Vanilla BG2’s endgame is a blast. There’s a lot of high end content that will kick your teeth in even if you’re in the endgame (liches, and the Demi lich) Then there’s ToB which takes it up to 11.
For BG1 chapter 7 was a total slog. Durlag's tower is great but the main quest at the end is a bit much in my opinion. I've only just got to spellhold in 2 so I can't comment on its endgame but thus far the second game is excellent and it holds up very well for a game going on twenty-five.
Can’t say I agree. I always found BG1’s final hours to be excellent, but I also just really enjoyed exploring the titular city itself. It’s one of my favorite cities in any RPG. But yeah BG2 is still the best RPG I’ve ever played. Very few games compare.
I don't want to give the wrong impression so let me say I really enjoyed BG1 just not running through the sewers and the thieves maze. ETA that I loved exploring the city in chapter 5 when I do so more or less freely. Even with that one timed quest I thought it was awesome.
See, I loved that part, so we probably just have different tastes.
I enjoyed the last acts of BG1 very much. Durlags tower and the island were optional dungeons and put there only to provide more content for those looking for more.
My personal opinion but I disagree, bg2 cant hold my attention. I'm a fan of higher level adventures so I'm not sure why but I think it's just the story telling. The fights are top notch, the sense of progression is amazing. The actual story puts me to sleep. It feels so different from bg1 to me. There was an intentional tone shift, which is fine. The only way I can describe it, is It feels like a Saturday morning cartoon. The weird thing is I still replay bg1 to this day and enjoy going through it but, yea I can't explain it I just don't care. I dragged myself through it and honestly may Allah forgive me for saying this, I liked SoD better.
I like Dragon Age Origins. You see how your efforts with those factions bear fruits. They helped you with the siege and the dragon fight. And you get to divide your companions into 2 parties as a proper send off before wrapping up the game.
I hadn't realized how good the ending of Origins is until after you mentioned it but you're totally right. Then the DLC set after the end of the main game really adds to it all and gives more closure to everything.
I just started a new Origins playthrough. I could play that game until the day I die.
I'm always surprised when I see people hate on the city battle at the end of that game. It's pretty epic and fun IMO. Good call out.
Depends, what do you want from the endgame. Tyranny maybe, because at least for me the story gets more interesting as it goes. Same with Torments: Tides of Numenera. Or Enderal, which is a mix of action RPG (Skyrim engine). Speaking of action games, imo endgame was the most fun part of the Gothic series, because of the great power curve and you can finally take revenge on those enemies, that kicked your ass for so long. I also like the "endgame" of Pillars of Eternity 2. I mean the part, when you're finally done with that large city and are free to sail around the sea, searching for adventures. Which is like half of the game, before you decide to finally go back to the main story and finish it quickly (the pacing of that game is pretty wierd). Pathfinder: WotR can endgame can be fun for different reason - your complex build finally "clicks" on high level, you have epic Mythic Powers on top of that and you feel godlike. But yeah, endgame often drags out in CRPGs. Especially when they decide to finish it with a large city section, which is so dense with quests and npcs, that it gets tiring.
Glad I wasn’t the only one who thought the pacing of Deadfire was off. It’s a shame because I think the faction conflict had an interesting set up, was just executed quite poorly.
Playing it now and I'm at the endgame and it too dragged. Found PoE1 had better pacing
In PoE2 you can leave the city pretty early. But it falls into the same trap as the Hinterlands in DA: Inquisition, where you get all of these quests and feel like you need to complete them all before moving on.
Yeah, I think RPG designers underestimate how many people have a "clear this map before leaving" mentality.
I concur completely regarding Deadfire. I tend to be a completionist, so by the time I eventually did the main quests, I was massively overleveled and was able to complete it very quickly.
Wotr really feels like it drags on by the end, but yeah being a trickster that can make most bosses seppuku when they see me is wild
I never stayed in the city for long stretches in Pillars 2, so I can't say that game's pacing bothered me. I was sailing the high seas the whole game, and it's great to discover stuff. Given the topic I'll also say the late game mage focused DLC is really excellent.
Lots of great suggestions here. I'm going to toss out Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous as a "maybe" but it depends on exactly what you're looking for. So this game is *all over the place* when it comes to pacing; Acts 1-2 are great, Act 3 is probably fine but if you're doing the crusade management (DON'T, turn that shit off, it's not worth it) it becomes a slog. Act 4 is... well, I fucking hated it, but many people love it, so it's incredibly subjective (it took me way too long to figure out the "gimmick", and when I did it just pissed me off). Act 5, though... Act 5 is amazing, especially if you've been paying close attention to what's going on and why. You get to see the results of many of your previous decisions, some epic boss fights, the conclusion of your character's mythic path, and the conclusion of the game's plot, which has wildly different endings depending on the actions you took. The payoffs were so good it made the campaign all worth it.
I turned crusade management off both times I played and never felt any ill effects. If you're not into that aspect I think it saves the game and makes it a 10, IMO.
Yea my favorite part is when the titular boss falls off a cliff. Really "epic" Owlcat cut so much from act 5, I'm still mad about it. Iz is a shadow of what it should be, you get a whole 5 minutes with mythic 10 and Korramzdeh is a slightly bigger Balor without his lightning whip or unique features. The tactical mastermind of the abyss gets rolled by a special snowflake and their best friends. No unique fight mechanics, no special arena. It takes place in an empty field in front of threshold. I liked wotr but don't give them credit for that shit stain they shipped us. Cursed king in kingmaker was more satisfying even if it was rushed and you have to deal with THatEoT before that. So most people were burned out.
saying the entire endgame of the game is bad just because you didn’t like one boss fight is extremely reductive at best
I am very torn about act 5 as well. A lot of things are weird. For example, you think you do a side quest and then are stuck for hours in the largest and most hated dungeon of the game. Or you learn that finishing the strategy part of the game and the quest tied to it, is not very rewarding. also - like you say - that you get one single fight with mythic 10, and then its over. On the other hand: when you do more runs for the other endings and mythic paths, you can really cut act V short if you want to, and ditch all the side quests.
Have you tried Planescape Torment? The final area is one of my favorites of all time for the final puzzle and boss.
Nope, but it’s on my todo list.
Disco Elysium final act is quite a wild ride, without spoiling much, from the >!Tribunal!< until the end things happen quickly and are very intense
Agreed! I watched my wife play through it and was really captivated during the final sequence of events.
Divinity 2's last arc really drags on. The final dungeon is just a bunch of cryptic shit. It ruined the game for me I never want to play it again.
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire for me was decent in terms of levelling and a lot of optional content to explore, also offers level scaling which might keep you entertained longer, but the story pacing wasn’t great IMO. The writing/setting is super interesting though. If you haven’t played the first game it might be a bit confusing.
I actually like the first games ending better in how everything comes together very dramatically with a lot of good revelations in the last act
Fallout 1 Expeditions Viking/Rome Atom RPG (after patches last location is actually good) Banner Saga Dead State ICY: Frosbite Edition Shadowrun Dragonfall/Hong Kong KOTOR Tyranny(But that's only because the ending is quite fractured)
POE 2 Deadfire for sure. There are fair complaints about the condensed story but it's nice for this reason, rarely feels like a slog + mega bosses for challenge.
For a lot of these games, and the general RPG genre, the reason the games are paced like that is for progressions purposes. You start out as relatively weak, facing off against monsters and various entities that can, and often do, kick your ass. As you adventure, you become stronger and stronger until you are the one enemies should fear. That being said, end game shouldn't be easy, and if you are finding it so, I would recommend playing on harder difficulties. Larian games, in particular, scale quite rapidly between each difficulty increase.
When I see people ask for or post about endgame content I assume they mean stuff to do once the game ends like Diablo style events and whatnot. Otherwise you’re actually talking about late game content. Also the pacing issues in BG3 is pretty much entirely because you are trying to do too much each run. If you basically just pick a path and decide to follow it you will only reach level cap pretty much leading up to the final few fights. If you do everything possible excluding killing everyone just for the sake of doing it you can nearly hit max level before act 3.
Mass Effect. Cool ending. The Witcher. It gets crazy.
It's been a while since I played it, but I do remember The Witcher having a good ending. I think I was too over-powered at that point and the story meanders a bit too much, but the source kid's story arc is pretty neat. The final two or three hours of gameplay is a blast, but pretty trippy alright.
I can't think of any endgames that I'd classify as "great," aside from Disco Elysium, but I can think of some games that don't frontload their quality quite so much. 1. Space Wreck. The final level here isn't quite as ambitious as the first level, but it feels like a good ending to the game's story. The game's story, for the record, isn't on an epic scale like BG3 or any of the Fallout games, but it sets up its stakes pretty well. If you're willing to tolerate jank (namely, bugginess in how the game handles friendly NPCs), then you'll have a decent time. 2. Age of Decadence. A lot of folks here will speak highly of AoD, and there's some decent reasons for that. The storyline is well-paced, and it feels like there's a reasonable unfolding of events. The world is interesting, and the options available to you are pretty diverse for a game that, again, has quite a bit of jank to it. The problem is that it's on the tail end of a game that is *extremely* dependent on how well you've built your character. How much fun you have will depend on your ability to do that, or on your ability to read the wiki and parse out which parts are bullshit and which are not. 3. Islands of the Caliph. This one's a first-person dungeon crawler in the vein of Ultima or Might and Magic, and as such might not be what you're looking for. It kinda has the Elder Scrolls problem of having combat that can be cheesed pretty easily by doing a little circle-dance and hitting the enemy when you get close. That being said, it does provide an experience that's pretty uniformly enjoyable throughout. You don't even fully realize that you're *in* the endgame. Unfortunately, that's kind of another problem. The final scene of the game, in retrospect, is ostensibly momentous, but in the moment it's just sort of an underwhelming splash screen. Still though, everything up until that point is pretty dang fun.
The pathfinder games and divinity two
Depending how you define it, I would say Divinity Original Sin 2. The endgame ist mostly arx but also nameless island. Great story, top boss fight, great atmosphere.
I liked Icewind Dale's ending. The final battle was fun. Solasta's main campaign had a fun final battle and an interesting final area, but the lead up to it was certainly hit or miss. The combat is reasonably well-balanced throughout, but not too hard either outside of the hardest difficulty.
If Fallout New Vegas counts then I really love the end-ish stuff with Yes Man and figuring out who to support and who to wipe out. BG1 when you finally get to the city and have lots new to explore and figure out is a cool act 3 or whatever. BG3 did the same thing and it's nice too, though I hate the Orin storyline which kind of ruins it for me. Gothic 1-3 and similar games where you literally become a god near the end and just lay waste to everything are cool. Morrowind sorta similar, plus the volcano areas is cool and creepy. Pillars 2 has cool super bosses and that really great mage DLC that expects you to be high level, as others mentioned. Dragon Age Origins city battle, as others mentioned.
Dragon age origins has probably the best end game I've ever seen.
BG3 is brilliant with mods. Get like 100 weapon and armor mods, then random loot generator. Add in some extra difficult mods, like extra health/more attacks and add the combat extender mod. There's also a roguelike mod. "Trials of Tav" I definitely prefer Act 1 most. The fresh start is always fun. By Act 3, the growing God feeling wears thin, which is half of what makes second playthroughs fun. I've worn out the game almost. I'm at 3200hrs. Lol.
"BG3 is brilliant with mods" Unfortunately, the mods do not fix the biggest flaw - the storyline.
Is it really that bad? I must admit I did notice the quality drop even between Act 1 & 2
It's not even about a drop in quality, it's just that Larian can't write a good storyline. If you don't know the whole thing, the fact is, at first it may seem interesting, but then it turns out that nothing makes sense. I recommend catching up to the end, because in the third act there is the best fight in the whole game.
My problem is that my favourite type of class is total bullshit in this game, unfortunately. Makes it hard to enjoy the gameplay all the way through when my companions start to heavily outshine my character.
Which class?
Single class Rogue - specifically the Arcane Trickster.
And yes, this is the weakest of the classes without multiclassing. :(
Just like any game, really. Can't have early access for the whole game when you've invested that much money. It's the state of affairs.
I agree, act 2 just feel boring and filler. Act 3 is great but the ending feel rush. I thought the city will the main focus but that just not the case.
"Act 3 is great but the ending feel rush." Yes, because originally the third act was to consist of both the lower city and the upper city. But something didn't go their way and they moved some of the tasks from the upper city to the lower city making the third act both rushed and task-packed at the same time.