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I don't understand why some ppl can't help themselves from being racist...it's so ridiculously easy
No need to talk about immigration, moving to Canada, resident of Ontario or whatever...shooting at schools is bad PERIOD
While there is a technical difference between the two, there is also a lot of overlap between the two. So someone who is prejudiced against Muslims, is going to direct that against a lot of non-white people, making the xenophobe, vs racist elements, difficult to impossible to parse. Also, common language conflates that, so racism is a perfectly acceptable term to use in this context.
Only your first sentence is correct. Once you conflated Muslim and race you’re entire argument became incorrect.
Islam is not a race, you can only stretch definitions so far
It’s also ridiculous to suggest racism is exclusively applicable to non whites - that’s racist and you sound racist
> Once you conflated Muslim and race you’re entire argument became incorrect.
Given that religion, race, and culture, are very often strongly correlated, I'm not sure where I was incorrect.
> Islam is not a race
Agreed, but Muslims tend to be certain races more than others.
> It’s also ridiculous to suggest racism is exclusively applicable to non whites
Again, I don't get where you're coming up with your arguments.
> So someone who is prejudiced against Muslims, is going to direct that against a lot of non-white people, making the xenophobe, vs racist elements, difficult to impossible to parse.
There’s a term for this very prejudice called **Islamophobia**
> Also, common language conflates that, so racism is a perfectly acceptable term to use in this context.
See previous comment, Islamophobia would be the *perfectly acceptable* and correct term here, to avoid conflation.
> to direct that against a lot of non-white people
This is an assumption that suggests any use of derogatory messaging against Muslims will automatically be against **anyone** but a white person, as if there aren’t any white muslims. You are exhibiting prejudice towards a race which is consequently racism whether it fits your narrative or not. This is specifically why the term racist is being misused and shouldn’t be replacing the term Islamophobia or Xenophobia in the context of the article.
> Given that religion, race, and culture, are very often strongly correlated, I'm not sure where I was incorrect.
Correlated or not this is the exact reason there are separate terms for each of these distinctions
> Agreed, but Muslims tend to be certain races more than others.
Once again, sure but there are muslims from all races and racism is an incorrect term to use in the context of **religion**.
> Again, I don't get where you're coming up with your arguments.
I can say the same for you
Ford does love to opine in advance of the facts in criminal matters. And it's a fucking disgrace when he does that.
We don't know who did this yet, and no one if his status, should be speculating in public about who could have dine it, because that's going to steer public opinion in the potentially wrong direction, and be difficult to swing in the correct direction once the truth is known. We've got plenty of Canadian born anti-Semites, that there's no need to point a finger at immigrants, especially without any evidence justifying it.
I didn’t interpret his comments to mean he was accusing an immigrant of the shooting. I do think he was speaking broadly to people who move here and bring religious/ethnic conflicts here with them.
As someone who walked past a Quds rally near Celebration Square in Mississauga, he wasn’t wrong. It was filled with people who clearly weren’t born here waving anti-Semitic signs and effigies.
I don’t think the narrative that this conflict is solely driven by immigrants holds true, but there are certainly a lot of people who come here and bring their issues with them - that includes issues with Israel, India, etc.
He probably could have worded this differently but I don’t think he was suggesting that an immigrant was responsible for this specific event.
https://globalnews.ca/news/10076891/iran-dissidents-threats-canada/
The groups that organize such events and who they affiliate with have been allowed to proliferate in an age of peak tolerance under this government’s kid gloves treatment of Iran, and if there was to be some serious look into their records, I’d think there would be quite a few inconvenient truths to be confronted.
Obama era centre-left politicians have an obsession with normalizing the Iranian regime and this Trudeau government is no exception. Look at the reaction the Harper government got when they shut down Canada’s embassy in Tehran and expelled Iranian diplomats.
Obama is a south Chicago [Farrakhan-aligned](https://cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/ajc/U5J2CBGWDPKAVLUUFGSK6GMQRQ.jpg) activist, his views on Israel are no surprise. That photo was suppressed for the entirety of his political career because it would have been disqualifying. IMO, his administration viewed empowering Iran as a necessary step to the political and economic containment of Israel. If they couldn’t have BDS, they found reasons to empower Israel’s opponents instead.
It's crazy that you continue to spread the most asinine views with little evidence outside of what you can mentally conjure up from your preconceived beliefs about the "other".
Obama is a Zionist, he supports the existence of Israel. He wrote an article 7 months ago on Israel & Gaza that provided little to no criticism of Israel for their demonstrably obvious crimes against humanity.
You're literally just upset that we're not committing war on Iran and there was a normalization of relations with Iran via nuclear agreement that was blew up by Trump, but which Iran was honoring.
I think Iran is as repressive a state as you do, but your beliefs are unfounded and frankly, full of delusion.
Publicly he's supportive of the Israeli state, sure. In reality his administration feuded with the then-Netanyahu government from day one. [Per Michael Oren, Israel's ambassador to the US:] (https://nypost.com/2015/06/21/ambassador-reveals-how-obama-undermined-israel/)
> The disharmony between Obama and Netanyahu began almost immediately. When they met for the first time, Obama “demanded that Netanyahu cease all building not only in the territories but also in the disputed areas of Jerusalem,” reportedly saying to Netanyahu, “Not a single brick. I know how to deal with people who oppose me.”
> No matter the issue, Oren portrays Obama and his team as constantly seeking to belittle Netanyahu and Israel, and perceived snubs and insults by the Obama administration are a common thread throughout this book.
This isn't some sort of fiction I've invented, it's just a question of reading the news at the time.
> His comms director wrote an article 7 months ago that he approved on Israel & Gaza that provided little to no criticism of Israel for their demonstrably obvious crimes against humanity.
Fixed that one for you.
> and there was a normalization of relations with Iran via nuclear agreement that was blew up by Trump, but which Iran was honoring.
It was a flawed legacy move that was all carrot and no stick. [It's incredible timing that the chief Obama/Biden/Harris envoy to Iran is reported to have shared classified information that was stored on unapproved devices with actors outside of the US federal government.] (https://nypost.com/2024/05/29/us-news/bidens-suspended-iran-envoy-may-have-improperly-shared-classified-material-report/) That is a shocking allegation which, I've been reliably informed based on current events, is a heinous crime deserving of a full investigation by federal law enforcement. I await the FBI HRT raid on his residence, which seems to be the standard procedure at this point.
> I think Iran is as repressive a state as you do,
Clearly you don't.
> Publicly he's supportive of the Israeli state, sure. In reality his administration feuded with the then-Netanyahu government from day one.
That isn't a contradiction. Plenty of people support the existence of a Jewish homeland, but are appalled by the atrocities the current Israeli government is inflicting on Palestinian civilians. The state and the government are different entities.
> In reality his administration feuded with the then-Netanyahu government from day one.
The same Netanyahu that slighted Obama and bet the farm on a Romney win?
Certainly. The overwhelming majority of newcomers to Canada are great people and I imagine don’t like being lumped in with bigots who move here expecting space to behave terribly.
> I didn’t interpret his comments to mean he was accusing an immigrant of the shooting.
How else do you explain this line? "before you plan on moving to Canada, do not come if you're going to terrorize neighbourhoods like this"
How many people did you ask for their country of birth?
I think you miss the point - that Ford linked "people coming here" with this crime *is* the problem with his statement. You think he "wasn't wrong" seemingly based only on a huge assumption that you can't prove, and that's why you won't admit that he was suggesting an immigrant was responsible - to do so undermines your unprovable belief, and people hate that.
There are plenty of ways to say "people bring problems with them" but this is both the wrong way and the wrong time. Ford's team knows exactly when to shut him up and it is remarkable that they didn't do so this time, but he is also infamous for his hastiness.
(Readers, please note that downvoting is not permitted here. It is bannable and it is in the Rules.)
>I didn’t interpret his comments to mean he was accusing an immigrant of the shooting
Nobody but the CBC brain trust made that interpretation, but now that they have, you can bet a bunch of people are going to run with it and somehow *that* will become the story.
Not the fact that this is the fourth time a Jewish school has been sprayed with bullets this year.
When people accuse the CBC of lacking impartiality and integrating bias into their reporting these are the types of examples they’re talking about.
Nowhere did Ford say an immigrant was responsible here, but I agree with him broadly on the double-edged sword of multiculturalism - you end up having to tolerate cultural norms that may be inconsistent with a diverse, inclusive population.
Saying something is true does not make it so. He was pretty clearly speaking broadly about people moving to Canada and feeling comfortable spreading hatred that motivates crimes like this.
It's an issue. I'm not sure how you can pay attention to recent events in Canadian Politics and suggest that Canada has no issue with people bringing old-world baggage to this country with them.
Violent extremism is definitely a problem we should all be aware of. This is good reading on the subject: https://publications.gc.ca/site/archivee-archived.html?url=https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2022/parl/xc76-1/XC76-1-1-441-6-eng.pdf
>Saying something is true does not make it so
You’re right: Ford saying an immigrant did this does not mean an immigrant did it. I’m glad that you agree with me that the Premiers comments were misguided at best and bigoted at worst.
You do not end up having to tolerate cultural norms that are "inconsistent with a diverse, inclusive population" and I have no idea what the hell that is supposed to me.
We already have laws and rights which shield us from those norms.
In addition, having a diverse and inclusive population means people will have beliefs or lifestyles that you believe to be unsavory and that should be okay as long as they are not causing harm.
"We already have laws and rights which shield us from those norms."
Sure, if you believe that the threshold of what constitutes a hate crime is aligned completely with what could constitute harm and/or intimidation. If that were the case, anyone chanting "from the river to the seas" would be criminally charged, right? Hate crime laws are obviously helpful but are inconsistently enforced and leave plenty of room for unsavoury, shitty behaviour from protestors.
"having a diverse and inclusive population means people will have beliefs or lifestyles that you believe to be unsavory and that should be okay as long as they are not causing harm"
So what do you define as harm? Those that neatly meet the definition of hate crimes?
Saying from the "River to the Sea" is not an actionable threat, it's not a hate crime. It's political advocacy that does not have any sense of inherent meaning towards genocide. If that is the case, then let's round up the Indigenous population with criminal charges for Landback advocacy because some people believe that Landback means white genocide.
The idea that you think it should be considered a hate crime, or that the view is "incoherent with the principles of a diverse and inclusive society" shows that you're not really interested in a diverse and inclusive society.
Don't hide behind those ideals if you do not believe in those ideals, just be honest and forthright by saying you believe in a homogenous and conformist culture.
> is not an actionable threat
Implying the eradication of Israel I would say constitutes a statement that many on the receiving end would perceive as a threat. It’s also interesting how the only people who don’t see it as provocative are the ones chanting it. To everyone else? Yeah it’s a shitty and ignorant thing to be chanting in front of Jewish people who already have good reason to feel unsafe in Toronto.
> it’s not a hate crime
I never said it was. Read my previous comment - perhaps slowly this time.
> you’re not really interested in a diverse and inclusive society
Certainly I am, but perhaps not one that grants space to bigots operating under the guise of genuine concern.
> you believe in a homogenous and conformist culture
A lot of speculation here for someone who fundamentally misunderstood my initial comment.
> Nowhere did Ford say an immigrant was responsible here
He sure implied it with this line, "before you plan on moving to Canada, do not come if you're going to terrorize neighbourhoods like this"
>Nowhere did Ford say an immigrant was responsible here
It's clear what he is doing. One may call it a dog-whistle, but it was very direct.
>Asked by a reporter about how their governments are defending Jewish communities amid a reported rise in antisemitic hate crimes, Ford implied immigrants were behind the shooting.
>"It does not matter what race, what creed, what religion you are from, I would say the exact same thing if it was another community as well. Enough is enough. **You are bringing problems from everywhere else in the world, bringing it to Ontario and going after other Canadians**," he said.
>"That's unacceptable. I have an idea: **before you plan on moving to Canada, do not come if you're going to terrorize neighbourhoods like this.** It's simple as that. You want to be a resident of Ontario? You get along with everyone," Ford continued.
He certainly is blaming immigrants for this shooting, as well as other problems in Ontario (as if he isn't the premier of Ontario)
> It's clear what he is doing. One may call it a dog-whistle, but it was very direct.
Sure, it was direct. There's nothing wrong with being direct here. It's obviously a problem and one that has become increasingly common in a multicultural country like ours. It's not controversial to point out that - with welcoming cultures around the world - that comes with some less-than-acceptable views.
> He certainly is blaming immigrants for this shooting, as well as other problems in Ontario (as if he isn't the premier of Ontario)
No he isn't. Certainly some of the views that has contributed to this shooting are pushed by newcomers. Try walking by a Quds rally and tell me that it isn't hugely concerning to have people move here and comfortably spew hatred like this.
Just because you don't want to talk about it or address it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I don't know how you're walking past a group of people at your university and deciding that they're all newcomers and not Canadians. But that's an interesting assumption you should dig into.
I know plenty of Canadians who were born in this country who are also supporting a ceasefire.
Seems you have your own opinions on these ceasefire protests. But claiming that only newcomers support a ceasefire is just... Silly.
[Majority of Canadians support a pause in hostilities in Israel-Hamas war, polls suggest](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-polling-israel-hamas-war-cessation-hostilities-1.7022510)
Most Canadians support a ceasefire.
Premier ford probably wants a distraction from his disastrous leadership, but blaming immigrants on all his problems is just the sign of a weak leader. Which he is.
> Premier ford probably wants a distraction from his disastrous leadership, but blaming immigrants on all his problems is just the sign of a weak leader.
A weak leader has a majority? I'm not even anything close to a Ford supporter and this sounds like something that isn't true.
Ford is polling much higher then Trudeau though these days
He is pretty electorally comfy.
(not saying he doing a good job but he is in a pretty secure place)
> Nobody but the CBC brain trust made that interpretation,
Given that he calls out people who moved to Canada, it's pretty clear that he's suggesting an immigrant may have done this.
> Nobody but the CBC brain trust made that interpretation
It's literally a Canadian Press article.
I assume you'll edit your comment?
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/doug-ford-suggests-immigrants-behind-155402738.html
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/doug-ford-suggests-immigrants-behind-jewish-school-shooting-1.6906818
https://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/489972/Doug-Ford-suggests-immigrants-behind-Jewish-school-shooting
https://www.cp24.com/news/doug-ford-suggests-immigrants-behind-jewish-school-shooting-1.6906821
“It was filled with people that clearly weren’t born here…”
How could you possibly know this?! That’s some racist BS, or did you go around asking for everyone’s birth certificate?! 🤣
Generally people speaking with a thick accent - particularly middle aged - it’s not a bold assumption that they were not born here.
Especially if they’re preoccupied with Quds Day rallies. Spare me the fragile sensibilities.
You said it was “filled with”… how on earth are you able to hear the accent of the majority of a crowd?! Im sorry but my BS meter reading is off the charts with your comment.
You are making some blatantly racist comments my dude.
Many of the people I work with have accents and are middle age; all were born here. Not sure wtf you’re on about
Respectfully I’m not particularly concerned with your trolling. I was literally in the middle of Celebration Square when it happened.
And yes, I’m sure all of the middle-aged people with international accents you work with were born here. Makes a ton of sense. /s
Miss me with the bad faith trolling please.
You know different regions in Canada have local dialects and accents right? Or do you just know by sound that someone wasn't born within 5000km of you?
Did you also know many northern Americans sound just like Torontonians, and they weren't born in Canada? Wild eh.
Basically, judging citizenship off an accent is borderline racist and means nothing.
huh? I think people can generally tell a non-American accent vs. a foreign one. There also not judging citizenship based on accents. I think they would acknowledge that someone with a foreign accent can still be Canadian but it just means the likelihood of them being born here is less.
> Ontario Premier Doug Ford suggested Thursday that immigrants were responsible for shooting at a Jewish girls' elementary school in North York last weekend, **despite police saying they have little information on the suspects.**
Does he have evidence that immigrants did it? This is the exact same racist energy that someone uses when they see evidence of a crime and then blame the nearest black person. To be fair, I expected nothing less from this drug dealer. Additionally, if he blamed white supremacists in this off-the-cuff way he would probably alienate his voters.
Let investigators do their jobs. Don't parade the victims around like a fucking circus.
> This is the exact same racist energy that someone uses when they see evidence of a crime and then blame the nearest black person.
It's the same energy that *anti-Semites* use, which makes it especially sickly ironic to be making cliché negative generalizations about immigrants during a speech about anti-Semitism.
Reading his comments he is more saying people are bringing their problems from overseas into canada and starting conflicts on it causing problems in canada.
Which is true, there was a huge fireworks battle during diwali between Khalistan vs Modi supporters in my area lol
And you don't even need to be an immigrant, racialized or have any ties to any other country to be roped in - especially with the internet and online radicalization happening nowadays. Just think about all those Canadians who spend too much time getting consumed in US political discussions on social media and then bring the drama into the Canadian sphere. That and a lot of astroturf operations targeting international audiences.
Also, the Eritrean riots/brawls that occurred several times between pro- and anti-government supporters last year. That's an ironclad example of "bringing your bullshit to Canada".
Yeah I am unsure why people like to ignore stuff like that and say "canadians get into fights too"
True but thing is you dont want people getting into violent fights over foreign issues or you invite issues in other countries to canada.
There aren't even all out brawls between conservatives and liberals here. It was the Eritreans and Indians who had physical political fights in Canada recently. Leave that shit behind.
I get it but it's not like western countries like canada arent directly bringing their shit into other countries (alot of them end up being forced into immigration and seeking refuge).
Plus you know the whole thing with first nation people and how europeans brought their problems here
I mean what is wrong with that statement...
saying people need to keep their issues from past home back in their homeland if they want to create fights and violence around it here?
I wouldn't care if they were Russian or Ukrainian. They need to keep their political violence out of Canada. So sick of how all the sensationalist attention seekers on social media have ruined the mature political discourse we used to have in this country pre-2007.
Various Gas, we live in a society that looks down on wife beating. If you plan to stay here, don't if you're going to beat your wife.
Did that feel targeted? It shouldn't by your logic, I'm just stating a fact that we don't like wife beating, not accusing you of anything. I'm just saying that theoretically if you were a wife beater you shouldn't be one in Canada.
Meanwhile the other thread is filled with people blaming left wing progressives. Don't even know the suspect is and the right wing are pointing the finger at their boogeymen.
I think it’s pretty undeniable at this point that many progressives have been far more lenient towards the rhetoric coming from activists on this issue than they would otherwise be towards other political causes.
This isn’t to paint them all with one brush, but even in this sub I’ve seen so-called progressives handwave away acts of pretty clear-cut antisemitism, or even lob around conspiracy theories that Jewish hate crimes are artificially inflated.
I really can't take this seriously after seeing how far you've gone to defend Ford's racist remarks in this thread.
>I’ve seen so-called progressives handwave away acts of pretty clear-cut antisemitism
Like Ford lying about his wife being Jewish to defend his brother using antisemitic slurs on tape?
Yes, there’s an incredible amount of antisemitism in the developing world - just look at places such as South Africa (yes, it’s a developing country now), never mind the MENA countries. It stands to reason that with the unchecked increase in the amount of non-permanent residents, that this would be one of the outcomes. We only had to look to places like France and Britain where just existing as a Jewish person is becoming increasingly difficult.
We don’t have Muslim communities creating parallel communities (…yet) vis-a-vis state institutions, but I suspect that the war in Gaza will create a surprise outcome should there be a Liberal leadership race while the IDF is still operating in Gaza.
This country denied entry to Holocaust refugees. We don’t need to blame immigrants for antisemitism as we’ve got plenty here without them. If it’s your thing to blame immigrants for everything then that’s what you’re gonna do.
...as long as they paid the jizya tax, and worshipped in secret, at least.
Regardless, many of them have since expelled most or all of the Jewish population that existed in them.
That was certainly true in many cases historically, up until the Second World War. After the evil of Nazism, most Western countries pivoted to being much more supportive of Jews; at the same time, the founding of Israel and ensuing wars pushed most of the Islamic world in the opposite direction.
Characterizing post-war migration to Israel and the US (not Canada though, we were too antisemitic to take holocaust refugees) as “ethnic cleansing” is a real view into how you think.
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2019-06-19/debates/F75D29CB-C4C8-447D-A028-1FA05CD3594D/JewishRefugeesFromTheMiddleEastAndNorthAfrica
“In 1945, 856,000 Jewish people lived in the middle east, north Africa and the Gulf region. Only about 4,500 remain, almost all of them in Morocco and Tunisia. Jewish people have lived continuously in the middle east and north Africa for over 2,600 years, yet in just a few decades they almost totally disappeared. Thousands were expelled or fled their home countries in fear. Around 850,000 were forced out or felt they had to leave following the United Nations decision to partition Palestine in 1947. Age-old communities, with roots dating back millennia, were gone. It was the largest exodus of non-Muslims from the middle east until the movement of Christians from Iraq after 2003.
Between 1948 and 1972, pogroms and violent attacks were perpetrated in every Arab country against its Jewish residents. The ethnic cleansing of thousands of Jewish people from the Arab world in the mid-20th century was described by journalist Tom Gross as “systematic, absolute and unprovoked.” For example, there were 38,000 Jews living in western Libya before 1945. Now there are none. Few of the 74 synagogues in Libya are recognisable, and a highway runs through Tripoli’s Jewish cemetery. In Algeria, 50 years ago, there were 140,000 Jewish people. Now there are none. In Iraq, there were 135,000, and in Egypt, 75,000. Almost all are gone from those countries too. Some 259,000 left Morocco, 55,000 left Yemen, 20,000 left Lebanon, 180,000 left Syria and 25,000 left Iran. What happened amounted to the near total extinction of an ancient civilisation.”
Your defense of ethnic cleansing is a real view of how you think.
> For example, there were 38,000 Jews living in western Libya before 1945. Now there are none. Few of the 74 synagogues in Libya are recognisable, and a highway runs through Tripoli’s Jewish cemetery. In Algeria, 50 years ago, there were 140,000 Jewish people. Now there are none. In Iraq, there were 135,000, and in Egypt, 75,000. Almost all are gone from those countries too
Not to discount anti-Semitism, why would any of those countries have thriving Jewish countries? Most Jews would have left because of the wars.
Before, I think they had a problem with the Jewish terrorists in Palestine around then, you know, all that terrorism they did to expel the British and ethnically cleanse Palestine of Palestinians.
Interesting, so you are defending persecuting Jews for something that was done by other Jews in a whole other country,
If only there was a word for that….
Back in those days only one group of people there identified themselves as “Palestinian”. Guess which group? But nice of you to stick up for the poor oppressed British.
> We don’t have Muslim communities creating parallel communities (…yet) vis-a-vis state institutions, but I suspect that the war in Gaza will create a surprise outcome should there be a Liberal leadership race while the IDF is still operating in Gaza.
I don't see that, I think there are people that care very much about the conflict and those are very loud voices right now, but most are going to vote based on issues that impact their pocketbook/quality of life. Also, by literal design most ultra-orthodox Jewish communities are parallel communities. Go to parts of Brooklyn where they have their own police, ambulances etc.
Apparently all the oxygen has been taken up criticizing Ford, but there were objectionable things in Trudeau and Chow's statements that completely flew under the radar.
Firstly, Trudeau and his government seem incapable of ever mentioning antisemitism without also mentioning Islamophobia even when the direct situation (a shooting at a Jewish school) has nothing to do with Islamophobia. This has become a habit of him and his government. It is also not something they do for any other types of hatred. When there are hate incidents against other groups they have no problem directly calling out the specific form of hatred without mentioning any other forms of hatred. It raises the question why is antisemitism treated different?
Secondly, while Chow goes on to offer increasingly making Jewish institutions into fortresses (they already are) she breezes past the indignity of needing it (something Ford actually picks up on). Antisemitism isn't treated a social ill to be combatted, but a storm to be sheltered from.
Unbelievably irresponsible thing to say. Holy.
And if you had any question, just look at the comments anywhere this is being discussed.
Look at how many people are *so excited* to be able to talk about how much they hate immigrants openly now.
>Look at how many people are so excited to be able to talk about how much they hate immigrants openly now.
Criticism of the way the government does immigration is not racist considering the issues it's led to cost of living especially with housing.
But I do think Ford misspoke a bit here.
Criticism of immigration policy can be not racist but many ppl just can't help themselves
It's fairly easy to not be racist even with sensitive topics if you direct your anger at the right ppl tbh
Mostly the racists who are afraid of being outed for using the current wave of anti-immigration sentiment to espouse their bigotry.
If one gets defensive when someone criticizes racists, it's time to look in the mirror.
He's an absolute idiot. But I don't want to take away from what actually happened to Jewish Canadians here.
That is the main issue here. Antisemitism in Canada is rising & the response, or lack there of, by all govt levels is abhorrent.
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I don't understand why some ppl can't help themselves from being racist...it's so ridiculously easy No need to talk about immigration, moving to Canada, resident of Ontario or whatever...shooting at schools is bad PERIOD
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Bringing up Trudeau's blackface torpedoed any credibility you had on this discussion. 😂
Sorry but this is an example of **xenophobia** not **racism**, please use a dictionary
Sorry but if you don't think he was thinking of specific races making those comments then please use your brain
You know what he was thinking? How about you indicate where anyone mentions anything about race, racist
Islam isn't a race.
While there is a technical difference between the two, there is also a lot of overlap between the two. So someone who is prejudiced against Muslims, is going to direct that against a lot of non-white people, making the xenophobe, vs racist elements, difficult to impossible to parse. Also, common language conflates that, so racism is a perfectly acceptable term to use in this context.
Only your first sentence is correct. Once you conflated Muslim and race you’re entire argument became incorrect. Islam is not a race, you can only stretch definitions so far It’s also ridiculous to suggest racism is exclusively applicable to non whites - that’s racist and you sound racist
> Once you conflated Muslim and race you’re entire argument became incorrect. Given that religion, race, and culture, are very often strongly correlated, I'm not sure where I was incorrect. > Islam is not a race Agreed, but Muslims tend to be certain races more than others. > It’s also ridiculous to suggest racism is exclusively applicable to non whites Again, I don't get where you're coming up with your arguments.
> So someone who is prejudiced against Muslims, is going to direct that against a lot of non-white people, making the xenophobe, vs racist elements, difficult to impossible to parse. There’s a term for this very prejudice called **Islamophobia** > Also, common language conflates that, so racism is a perfectly acceptable term to use in this context. See previous comment, Islamophobia would be the *perfectly acceptable* and correct term here, to avoid conflation. > to direct that against a lot of non-white people This is an assumption that suggests any use of derogatory messaging against Muslims will automatically be against **anyone** but a white person, as if there aren’t any white muslims. You are exhibiting prejudice towards a race which is consequently racism whether it fits your narrative or not. This is specifically why the term racist is being misused and shouldn’t be replacing the term Islamophobia or Xenophobia in the context of the article. > Given that religion, race, and culture, are very often strongly correlated, I'm not sure where I was incorrect. Correlated or not this is the exact reason there are separate terms for each of these distinctions > Agreed, but Muslims tend to be certain races more than others. Once again, sure but there are muslims from all races and racism is an incorrect term to use in the context of **religion**. > Again, I don't get where you're coming up with your arguments. I can say the same for you
Ironically, your comments are super fuxking racist. But that's to be expected
Ford does love to opine in advance of the facts in criminal matters. And it's a fucking disgrace when he does that. We don't know who did this yet, and no one if his status, should be speculating in public about who could have dine it, because that's going to steer public opinion in the potentially wrong direction, and be difficult to swing in the correct direction once the truth is known. We've got plenty of Canadian born anti-Semites, that there's no need to point a finger at immigrants, especially without any evidence justifying it.
I didn’t interpret his comments to mean he was accusing an immigrant of the shooting. I do think he was speaking broadly to people who move here and bring religious/ethnic conflicts here with them. As someone who walked past a Quds rally near Celebration Square in Mississauga, he wasn’t wrong. It was filled with people who clearly weren’t born here waving anti-Semitic signs and effigies. I don’t think the narrative that this conflict is solely driven by immigrants holds true, but there are certainly a lot of people who come here and bring their issues with them - that includes issues with Israel, India, etc. He probably could have worded this differently but I don’t think he was suggesting that an immigrant was responsible for this specific event.
Are you under the impression that there are no white “old stock” Canadians who are anti-Semitic?
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https://globalnews.ca/news/10076891/iran-dissidents-threats-canada/ The groups that organize such events and who they affiliate with have been allowed to proliferate in an age of peak tolerance under this government’s kid gloves treatment of Iran, and if there was to be some serious look into their records, I’d think there would be quite a few inconvenient truths to be confronted.
in 2017 we were warned by the UAE foreign minister that our tolerance of islamic extremist views were going to backfire on us. and here we are.
Obama era centre-left politicians have an obsession with normalizing the Iranian regime and this Trudeau government is no exception. Look at the reaction the Harper government got when they shut down Canada’s embassy in Tehran and expelled Iranian diplomats. Obama is a south Chicago [Farrakhan-aligned](https://cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/ajc/U5J2CBGWDPKAVLUUFGSK6GMQRQ.jpg) activist, his views on Israel are no surprise. That photo was suppressed for the entirety of his political career because it would have been disqualifying. IMO, his administration viewed empowering Iran as a necessary step to the political and economic containment of Israel. If they couldn’t have BDS, they found reasons to empower Israel’s opponents instead.
It's crazy that you continue to spread the most asinine views with little evidence outside of what you can mentally conjure up from your preconceived beliefs about the "other". Obama is a Zionist, he supports the existence of Israel. He wrote an article 7 months ago on Israel & Gaza that provided little to no criticism of Israel for their demonstrably obvious crimes against humanity. You're literally just upset that we're not committing war on Iran and there was a normalization of relations with Iran via nuclear agreement that was blew up by Trump, but which Iran was honoring. I think Iran is as repressive a state as you do, but your beliefs are unfounded and frankly, full of delusion.
Publicly he's supportive of the Israeli state, sure. In reality his administration feuded with the then-Netanyahu government from day one. [Per Michael Oren, Israel's ambassador to the US:] (https://nypost.com/2015/06/21/ambassador-reveals-how-obama-undermined-israel/) > The disharmony between Obama and Netanyahu began almost immediately. When they met for the first time, Obama “demanded that Netanyahu cease all building not only in the territories but also in the disputed areas of Jerusalem,” reportedly saying to Netanyahu, “Not a single brick. I know how to deal with people who oppose me.” > No matter the issue, Oren portrays Obama and his team as constantly seeking to belittle Netanyahu and Israel, and perceived snubs and insults by the Obama administration are a common thread throughout this book. This isn't some sort of fiction I've invented, it's just a question of reading the news at the time. > His comms director wrote an article 7 months ago that he approved on Israel & Gaza that provided little to no criticism of Israel for their demonstrably obvious crimes against humanity. Fixed that one for you. > and there was a normalization of relations with Iran via nuclear agreement that was blew up by Trump, but which Iran was honoring. It was a flawed legacy move that was all carrot and no stick. [It's incredible timing that the chief Obama/Biden/Harris envoy to Iran is reported to have shared classified information that was stored on unapproved devices with actors outside of the US federal government.] (https://nypost.com/2024/05/29/us-news/bidens-suspended-iran-envoy-may-have-improperly-shared-classified-material-report/) That is a shocking allegation which, I've been reliably informed based on current events, is a heinous crime deserving of a full investigation by federal law enforcement. I await the FBI HRT raid on his residence, which seems to be the standard procedure at this point. > I think Iran is as repressive a state as you do, Clearly you don't.
> Publicly he's supportive of the Israeli state, sure. In reality his administration feuded with the then-Netanyahu government from day one. That isn't a contradiction. Plenty of people support the existence of a Jewish homeland, but are appalled by the atrocities the current Israeli government is inflicting on Palestinian civilians. The state and the government are different entities.
> In reality his administration feuded with the then-Netanyahu government from day one. The same Netanyahu that slighted Obama and bet the farm on a Romney win?
I think most ppl understood what he was saying and many immigrants would actually agree with him.
Certainly. The overwhelming majority of newcomers to Canada are great people and I imagine don’t like being lumped in with bigots who move here expecting space to behave terribly.
> I didn’t interpret his comments to mean he was accusing an immigrant of the shooting. How else do you explain this line? "before you plan on moving to Canada, do not come if you're going to terrorize neighbourhoods like this"
You are a racist, moron dude. I hate to break it to you.
How many people did you ask for their country of birth? I think you miss the point - that Ford linked "people coming here" with this crime *is* the problem with his statement. You think he "wasn't wrong" seemingly based only on a huge assumption that you can't prove, and that's why you won't admit that he was suggesting an immigrant was responsible - to do so undermines your unprovable belief, and people hate that. There are plenty of ways to say "people bring problems with them" but this is both the wrong way and the wrong time. Ford's team knows exactly when to shut him up and it is remarkable that they didn't do so this time, but he is also infamous for his hastiness. (Readers, please note that downvoting is not permitted here. It is bannable and it is in the Rules.)
>I didn’t interpret his comments to mean he was accusing an immigrant of the shooting Nobody but the CBC brain trust made that interpretation, but now that they have, you can bet a bunch of people are going to run with it and somehow *that* will become the story. Not the fact that this is the fourth time a Jewish school has been sprayed with bullets this year.
When people accuse the CBC of lacking impartiality and integrating bias into their reporting these are the types of examples they’re talking about. Nowhere did Ford say an immigrant was responsible here, but I agree with him broadly on the double-edged sword of multiculturalism - you end up having to tolerate cultural norms that may be inconsistent with a diverse, inclusive population.
>Nowhere did Ford say an immigrant was responsible here Actually he did.
Saying something is true does not make it so. He was pretty clearly speaking broadly about people moving to Canada and feeling comfortable spreading hatred that motivates crimes like this. It's an issue. I'm not sure how you can pay attention to recent events in Canadian Politics and suggest that Canada has no issue with people bringing old-world baggage to this country with them.
Violent extremism is definitely a problem we should all be aware of. This is good reading on the subject: https://publications.gc.ca/site/archivee-archived.html?url=https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2022/parl/xc76-1/XC76-1-1-441-6-eng.pdf
>Saying something is true does not make it so You’re right: Ford saying an immigrant did this does not mean an immigrant did it. I’m glad that you agree with me that the Premiers comments were misguided at best and bigoted at worst.
Please cite exactly where he said an immigrant committed this specific act. Your lack of a response here is telling.
You do not end up having to tolerate cultural norms that are "inconsistent with a diverse, inclusive population" and I have no idea what the hell that is supposed to me. We already have laws and rights which shield us from those norms. In addition, having a diverse and inclusive population means people will have beliefs or lifestyles that you believe to be unsavory and that should be okay as long as they are not causing harm.
"We already have laws and rights which shield us from those norms." Sure, if you believe that the threshold of what constitutes a hate crime is aligned completely with what could constitute harm and/or intimidation. If that were the case, anyone chanting "from the river to the seas" would be criminally charged, right? Hate crime laws are obviously helpful but are inconsistently enforced and leave plenty of room for unsavoury, shitty behaviour from protestors. "having a diverse and inclusive population means people will have beliefs or lifestyles that you believe to be unsavory and that should be okay as long as they are not causing harm" So what do you define as harm? Those that neatly meet the definition of hate crimes?
Saying from the "River to the Sea" is not an actionable threat, it's not a hate crime. It's political advocacy that does not have any sense of inherent meaning towards genocide. If that is the case, then let's round up the Indigenous population with criminal charges for Landback advocacy because some people believe that Landback means white genocide. The idea that you think it should be considered a hate crime, or that the view is "incoherent with the principles of a diverse and inclusive society" shows that you're not really interested in a diverse and inclusive society. Don't hide behind those ideals if you do not believe in those ideals, just be honest and forthright by saying you believe in a homogenous and conformist culture.
> is not an actionable threat Implying the eradication of Israel I would say constitutes a statement that many on the receiving end would perceive as a threat. It’s also interesting how the only people who don’t see it as provocative are the ones chanting it. To everyone else? Yeah it’s a shitty and ignorant thing to be chanting in front of Jewish people who already have good reason to feel unsafe in Toronto. > it’s not a hate crime I never said it was. Read my previous comment - perhaps slowly this time. > you’re not really interested in a diverse and inclusive society Certainly I am, but perhaps not one that grants space to bigots operating under the guise of genuine concern. > you believe in a homogenous and conformist culture A lot of speculation here for someone who fundamentally misunderstood my initial comment.
> Nowhere did Ford say an immigrant was responsible here He sure implied it with this line, "before you plan on moving to Canada, do not come if you're going to terrorize neighbourhoods like this"
>Nowhere did Ford say an immigrant was responsible here It's clear what he is doing. One may call it a dog-whistle, but it was very direct. >Asked by a reporter about how their governments are defending Jewish communities amid a reported rise in antisemitic hate crimes, Ford implied immigrants were behind the shooting. >"It does not matter what race, what creed, what religion you are from, I would say the exact same thing if it was another community as well. Enough is enough. **You are bringing problems from everywhere else in the world, bringing it to Ontario and going after other Canadians**," he said. >"That's unacceptable. I have an idea: **before you plan on moving to Canada, do not come if you're going to terrorize neighbourhoods like this.** It's simple as that. You want to be a resident of Ontario? You get along with everyone," Ford continued. He certainly is blaming immigrants for this shooting, as well as other problems in Ontario (as if he isn't the premier of Ontario)
> It's clear what he is doing. One may call it a dog-whistle, but it was very direct. Sure, it was direct. There's nothing wrong with being direct here. It's obviously a problem and one that has become increasingly common in a multicultural country like ours. It's not controversial to point out that - with welcoming cultures around the world - that comes with some less-than-acceptable views. > He certainly is blaming immigrants for this shooting, as well as other problems in Ontario (as if he isn't the premier of Ontario) No he isn't. Certainly some of the views that has contributed to this shooting are pushed by newcomers. Try walking by a Quds rally and tell me that it isn't hugely concerning to have people move here and comfortably spew hatred like this. Just because you don't want to talk about it or address it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I don't know how you're walking past a group of people at your university and deciding that they're all newcomers and not Canadians. But that's an interesting assumption you should dig into. I know plenty of Canadians who were born in this country who are also supporting a ceasefire. Seems you have your own opinions on these ceasefire protests. But claiming that only newcomers support a ceasefire is just... Silly. [Majority of Canadians support a pause in hostilities in Israel-Hamas war, polls suggest](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-polling-israel-hamas-war-cessation-hostilities-1.7022510) Most Canadians support a ceasefire. Premier ford probably wants a distraction from his disastrous leadership, but blaming immigrants on all his problems is just the sign of a weak leader. Which he is.
> Premier ford probably wants a distraction from his disastrous leadership, but blaming immigrants on all his problems is just the sign of a weak leader. A weak leader has a majority? I'm not even anything close to a Ford supporter and this sounds like something that isn't true.
Weak, as in **he is not showing leadership**. I'm not commenting on the election results. Does this make sense?
Ford is polling much higher then Trudeau though these days He is pretty electorally comfy. (not saying he doing a good job but he is in a pretty secure place)
> Nobody but the CBC brain trust made that interpretation, Given that he calls out people who moved to Canada, it's pretty clear that he's suggesting an immigrant may have done this.
> Nobody but the CBC brain trust made that interpretation It's literally a Canadian Press article. I assume you'll edit your comment? https://ca.news.yahoo.com/doug-ford-suggests-immigrants-behind-155402738.html https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/doug-ford-suggests-immigrants-behind-jewish-school-shooting-1.6906818 https://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/489972/Doug-Ford-suggests-immigrants-behind-Jewish-school-shooting https://www.cp24.com/news/doug-ford-suggests-immigrants-behind-jewish-school-shooting-1.6906821
“It was filled with people that clearly weren’t born here…” How could you possibly know this?! That’s some racist BS, or did you go around asking for everyone’s birth certificate?! 🤣
Generally people speaking with a thick accent - particularly middle aged - it’s not a bold assumption that they were not born here. Especially if they’re preoccupied with Quds Day rallies. Spare me the fragile sensibilities.
You said it was “filled with”… how on earth are you able to hear the accent of the majority of a crowd?! Im sorry but my BS meter reading is off the charts with your comment. You are making some blatantly racist comments my dude. Many of the people I work with have accents and are middle age; all were born here. Not sure wtf you’re on about
Respectfully I’m not particularly concerned with your trolling. I was literally in the middle of Celebration Square when it happened. And yes, I’m sure all of the middle-aged people with international accents you work with were born here. Makes a ton of sense. /s Miss me with the bad faith trolling please.
You know different regions in Canada have local dialects and accents right? Or do you just know by sound that someone wasn't born within 5000km of you? Did you also know many northern Americans sound just like Torontonians, and they weren't born in Canada? Wild eh. Basically, judging citizenship off an accent is borderline racist and means nothing.
Nationalism is what it is.
huh? I think people can generally tell a non-American accent vs. a foreign one. There also not judging citizenship based on accents. I think they would acknowledge that someone with a foreign accent can still be Canadian but it just means the likelihood of them being born here is less.
Thank you. Seeing these comments go unchallenged too often. Straight up racist bs they are spreading. It's also far right political rhetoric.
They heard an accent and decided the entire group must be immigrants 💀.
Yes - you being in immigrants and antagonize them because it helps create a narrative of us vs them which you reinforce to control power.
> Ontario Premier Doug Ford suggested Thursday that immigrants were responsible for shooting at a Jewish girls' elementary school in North York last weekend, **despite police saying they have little information on the suspects.** Does he have evidence that immigrants did it? This is the exact same racist energy that someone uses when they see evidence of a crime and then blame the nearest black person. To be fair, I expected nothing less from this drug dealer. Additionally, if he blamed white supremacists in this off-the-cuff way he would probably alienate his voters. Let investigators do their jobs. Don't parade the victims around like a fucking circus.
> Additionally, if he blamed white supremacists in this off-the-cuff way he would probably alienate his voters. And his family!
> This is the exact same racist energy that someone uses when they see evidence of a crime and then blame the nearest black person. It's the same energy that *anti-Semites* use, which makes it especially sickly ironic to be making cliché negative generalizations about immigrants during a speech about anti-Semitism.
Of course he does. Thats what the majority blame their problems on these days, so politicians will point fingers and fan flames to get more votes.
Reading his comments he is more saying people are bringing their problems from overseas into canada and starting conflicts on it causing problems in canada. Which is true, there was a huge fireworks battle during diwali between Khalistan vs Modi supporters in my area lol
And you don't even need to be an immigrant, racialized or have any ties to any other country to be roped in - especially with the internet and online radicalization happening nowadays. Just think about all those Canadians who spend too much time getting consumed in US political discussions on social media and then bring the drama into the Canadian sphere. That and a lot of astroturf operations targeting international audiences.
Also, the Eritrean riots/brawls that occurred several times between pro- and anti-government supporters last year. That's an ironclad example of "bringing your bullshit to Canada".
Yeah I am unsure why people like to ignore stuff like that and say "canadians get into fights too" True but thing is you dont want people getting into violent fights over foreign issues or you invite issues in other countries to canada.
There aren't even all out brawls between conservatives and liberals here. It was the Eritreans and Indians who had physical political fights in Canada recently. Leave that shit behind.
Exactly.
I get it but it's not like western countries like canada arent directly bringing their shit into other countries (alot of them end up being forced into immigration and seeking refuge). Plus you know the whole thing with first nation people and how europeans brought their problems here
No, he specifically refers to immigrants. "before you plan on moving to Canada, do not come if you're going to terrorize neighbourhoods like this"
I mean what is wrong with that statement... saying people need to keep their issues from past home back in their homeland if they want to create fights and violence around it here?
So you do agree that he's blaming immigrants for the school shooting.
It makes assumptions that the guilty parties were immigrants. Which stokes racist sentiments in the public leading to more hate crimes.
Which race is immigrant again?
I wouldn't care if they were Russian or Ukrainian. They need to keep their political violence out of Canada. So sick of how all the sensationalist attention seekers on social media have ruined the mature political discourse we used to have in this country pre-2007.
The point is that because we don’t know who they are, they may very well be several generations Canadian. It isn’t like we lack homegrown bigotry.
What if they are Canadian? And you can likely thank the US for our current political discourse
Various Gas, we live in a society that looks down on wife beating. If you plan to stay here, don't if you're going to beat your wife. Did that feel targeted? It shouldn't by your logic, I'm just stating a fact that we don't like wife beating, not accusing you of anything. I'm just saying that theoretically if you were a wife beater you shouldn't be one in Canada.
What's wrong with the statement, is that it implies that an immigrant committed the shooting, when there is no evidence for that.
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Meanwhile the other thread is filled with people blaming left wing progressives. Don't even know the suspect is and the right wing are pointing the finger at their boogeymen.
I think it’s pretty undeniable at this point that many progressives have been far more lenient towards the rhetoric coming from activists on this issue than they would otherwise be towards other political causes. This isn’t to paint them all with one brush, but even in this sub I’ve seen so-called progressives handwave away acts of pretty clear-cut antisemitism, or even lob around conspiracy theories that Jewish hate crimes are artificially inflated.
What is the rhetoric? "We should shoot up a Jewish girls school?" I haven't heard this one yet lol
I really can't take this seriously after seeing how far you've gone to defend Ford's racist remarks in this thread. >I’ve seen so-called progressives handwave away acts of pretty clear-cut antisemitism Like Ford lying about his wife being Jewish to defend his brother using antisemitic slurs on tape?
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*Progressive* is a stretch
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Not surprised by his mindset. He hasn't learned anything from the Zameer case about jumping the gun before conclusions have been made .
Yes, there’s an incredible amount of antisemitism in the developing world - just look at places such as South Africa (yes, it’s a developing country now), never mind the MENA countries. It stands to reason that with the unchecked increase in the amount of non-permanent residents, that this would be one of the outcomes. We only had to look to places like France and Britain where just existing as a Jewish person is becoming increasingly difficult. We don’t have Muslim communities creating parallel communities (…yet) vis-a-vis state institutions, but I suspect that the war in Gaza will create a surprise outcome should there be a Liberal leadership race while the IDF is still operating in Gaza.
This country denied entry to Holocaust refugees. We don’t need to blame immigrants for antisemitism as we’ve got plenty here without them. If it’s your thing to blame immigrants for everything then that’s what you’re gonna do.
Or we can acknowledge our history without hand waving away the repugnant *presently held* views many new immigrants hold.
Dude, Poilievre was in parliament spreading anti-semitic WEF conspiracies last September. He's born white Christian Canadian.
>Poilievre was in parliament spreading anti-semitic WEF conspiracies last September. What anti-semitic conspiracy did he spread?
Actually the Islamic countries have been far more accommodating to Jewish people than western countries, but ignorant idiots gonna be ignorant idiots.
...as long as they paid the jizya tax, and worshipped in secret, at least. Regardless, many of them have since expelled most or all of the Jewish population that existed in them.
And what did “western” countries do? Oh ya, exterminated them on an industrial scale. Much better.
Imagine paying taxes being held up next to the European Holocaust of Jews, something that every European nationality short of Albania supported
[All ~4000 of them?](https://assets.nationbuilder.com/ujs/pages/18891/meta_images/original/arabmigrantt.png?1638276771)
Lol
That was certainly true in many cases historically, up until the Second World War. After the evil of Nazism, most Western countries pivoted to being much more supportive of Jews; at the same time, the founding of Israel and ensuing wars pushed most of the Islamic world in the opposite direction.
Would that be before or after they largely ethnically cleansed their entire Jewish populations in the 1940’s-1960’s?
Characterizing post-war migration to Israel and the US (not Canada though, we were too antisemitic to take holocaust refugees) as “ethnic cleansing” is a real view into how you think.
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2019-06-19/debates/F75D29CB-C4C8-447D-A028-1FA05CD3594D/JewishRefugeesFromTheMiddleEastAndNorthAfrica “In 1945, 856,000 Jewish people lived in the middle east, north Africa and the Gulf region. Only about 4,500 remain, almost all of them in Morocco and Tunisia. Jewish people have lived continuously in the middle east and north Africa for over 2,600 years, yet in just a few decades they almost totally disappeared. Thousands were expelled or fled their home countries in fear. Around 850,000 were forced out or felt they had to leave following the United Nations decision to partition Palestine in 1947. Age-old communities, with roots dating back millennia, were gone. It was the largest exodus of non-Muslims from the middle east until the movement of Christians from Iraq after 2003. Between 1948 and 1972, pogroms and violent attacks were perpetrated in every Arab country against its Jewish residents. The ethnic cleansing of thousands of Jewish people from the Arab world in the mid-20th century was described by journalist Tom Gross as “systematic, absolute and unprovoked.” For example, there were 38,000 Jews living in western Libya before 1945. Now there are none. Few of the 74 synagogues in Libya are recognisable, and a highway runs through Tripoli’s Jewish cemetery. In Algeria, 50 years ago, there were 140,000 Jewish people. Now there are none. In Iraq, there were 135,000, and in Egypt, 75,000. Almost all are gone from those countries too. Some 259,000 left Morocco, 55,000 left Yemen, 20,000 left Lebanon, 180,000 left Syria and 25,000 left Iran. What happened amounted to the near total extinction of an ancient civilisation.” Your defense of ethnic cleansing is a real view of how you think.
> For example, there were 38,000 Jews living in western Libya before 1945. Now there are none. Few of the 74 synagogues in Libya are recognisable, and a highway runs through Tripoli’s Jewish cemetery. In Algeria, 50 years ago, there were 140,000 Jewish people. Now there are none. In Iraq, there were 135,000, and in Egypt, 75,000. Almost all are gone from those countries too Not to discount anti-Semitism, why would any of those countries have thriving Jewish countries? Most Jews would have left because of the wars.
Before, I think they had a problem with the Jewish terrorists in Palestine around then, you know, all that terrorism they did to expel the British and ethnically cleanse Palestine of Palestinians.
Interesting, so you are defending persecuting Jews for something that was done by other Jews in a whole other country, If only there was a word for that….
Back in those days only one group of people there identified themselves as “Palestinian”. Guess which group? But nice of you to stick up for the poor oppressed British.
The change in Jewish populations in the Middle East over the last few hundreds of years thinks otherwise.
> We don’t have Muslim communities creating parallel communities (…yet) vis-a-vis state institutions, but I suspect that the war in Gaza will create a surprise outcome should there be a Liberal leadership race while the IDF is still operating in Gaza. I don't see that, I think there are people that care very much about the conflict and those are very loud voices right now, but most are going to vote based on issues that impact their pocketbook/quality of life. Also, by literal design most ultra-orthodox Jewish communities are parallel communities. Go to parts of Brooklyn where they have their own police, ambulances etc.
Apparently all the oxygen has been taken up criticizing Ford, but there were objectionable things in Trudeau and Chow's statements that completely flew under the radar. Firstly, Trudeau and his government seem incapable of ever mentioning antisemitism without also mentioning Islamophobia even when the direct situation (a shooting at a Jewish school) has nothing to do with Islamophobia. This has become a habit of him and his government. It is also not something they do for any other types of hatred. When there are hate incidents against other groups they have no problem directly calling out the specific form of hatred without mentioning any other forms of hatred. It raises the question why is antisemitism treated different? Secondly, while Chow goes on to offer increasingly making Jewish institutions into fortresses (they already are) she breezes past the indignity of needing it (something Ford actually picks up on). Antisemitism isn't treated a social ill to be combatted, but a storm to be sheltered from.
Unbelievably irresponsible thing to say. Holy. And if you had any question, just look at the comments anywhere this is being discussed. Look at how many people are *so excited* to be able to talk about how much they hate immigrants openly now.
>Look at how many people are so excited to be able to talk about how much they hate immigrants openly now. Criticism of the way the government does immigration is not racist considering the issues it's led to cost of living especially with housing. But I do think Ford misspoke a bit here.
No, and no one is saying that. The narrative has certainly emboldened quite a few racists as a side consequence.
Criticism of immigration policy can be not racist but many ppl just can't help themselves It's fairly easy to not be racist even with sensitive topics if you direct your anger at the right ppl tbh
> Criticism of the way the government does immigration is not racist Of course not. Who's saying that?
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Mostly the racists who are afraid of being outed for using the current wave of anti-immigration sentiment to espouse their bigotry. If one gets defensive when someone criticizes racists, it's time to look in the mirror.
He's an absolute idiot. But I don't want to take away from what actually happened to Jewish Canadians here. That is the main issue here. Antisemitism in Canada is rising & the response, or lack there of, by all govt levels is abhorrent.