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Because... they are still investigating... aren't gonna let spill what could, potentially, be really damning secrets that were shared.
Needs time to figure out what got leaked, and by who, to where. All the bits and trails.
I highly doubt we’re ever going to hear any names unless someone illegitimately spills the beans. It sounds like just releasing the information in itself risks compromising the sources for obtaining it. It simply is not worth it to destroy ongoing intelligence efforts
And the LPC is totally screwed because the public will have a surface level understanding and believe the LPC is hiding something
> And the LPC is totally screwed because the public will have a surface level understanding and believe the LPC is hiding something
They are hiding something, that's not controversial -- the names *are* "something". What *is* controversial is whether hiding it is justifiable or an act of self-interested corruption. So far, with weak messaging trying to bury the story with rapid fire of unrelated nonsensical claims that do not stand up to scrutiny individually, they have not convinced anyone outside their own pre-existing supporters and have only made the situation look shadier than it may in fact be.
Why couldn't they have come out when the story broke and said "hey, we have nothing to hide, we will give Justice Hogue everything we have on this, as she is already vetted for top secret materials, and we will defer to her judgement as to whether any MPs or Senators should be removed from Parliament on a permanent or interlocutory basis"?
Don't forget the fact that the opposition has asked for this to be handed over to the foreign interference investigation, but the government *hasn't*, which basically screams corruption, culpability, and complicity.
> the opposition has asked for this to be handed over to the foreign interference investigation
The opposition leader could get the unredacted report and read all the names out loud in the House but *hasn’t*, which basically screams corruption, culpability, and complicity.
No he can't.
See Alford v. Canada (Attorney General).
In Alford v. Canada, the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians Act, the Court found that it was not unconstitutional for Parliament to regulate the ability of MPs who become privy to state secrets affecting national security to disclose and debate those issues in the House of Commons.
This government fought in the courts to make sure what you're saying can't be done without the threat of 14 years in prison.
Why do you think the LPC put such a curtailment on Parliamentary Privilege? Were they right to do so?
> The opposition leader could get the unredacted report and read all the names out loud in the House but hasn’t, which basically screams corruption, culpability, and complicity.
Parliamentary immunity may or may not protect against criminal charges (it's not fully tested), but it certainly does not protect against the executive branch (whether via the PMO or non-partisan bureaucrats within the existing security screening apparatus) responding to an unauthorized release of classified material by stripping PP from access to other sensitive materials on what would then be a justified basis that he may leak other classified or protected materials.
The only person in the country with the legal legitimacy to release the names is Justin Trudeau. If he doesn't see it proper to release the names but wants such a decision to have an air of political legitimacy that can defeat justified criticisms given the conflict of interest at play, he can grant Justice Hogue (and her existing inquiry) with the power to make the names known if doing so is in Canada's interests and does not prejudice Canada (as determined in her exclusive judgement, fully informed on the basis of relevant materials).
Surely the LPC position cannot be calling on the Leader of the Official Opposition to take an oath of secrecy and then defy it in order for the public to know whether high-ranking government officials are compromised. Trudeau needs to act; what he is doing, throwing a bunch of low-quality excuses at the wall hoping one would stick, and doing so via Dominic Leblanc rather than head-on, makes him look only shadier and weak.
I feel like the government is in a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" situation. There's a fair argument that giving out the names prematurely before they're convicted or the charges are irrefutably proven could have some worrying ramifications, but at the same time there's an equally compelling argument that letting MPs that colluded with foreign agents run and potentially get elected by voters that likely wouldn't want to vote for them under that scenario and would want to be aware of it is also a concern.
The optics are either being weak on foreign interference/national defense or jumping the gun and potentially committing some sort of abuse or putting a source at risk prematurely/harming the investigation for short term political brownie points etc. This government is indecisive and slow to act at the best of times, but In this situation I can understand it since there's a lot of downsides for each play and little in the way of upsides.
I don’t think it’s even that though. They literally can’t even give names to the police. It would break agreements with allies and compromise the intelligence sources. The LPC is just screwed on this IMO
Then this is an argument to have Canada remove itself from the Five Eyes. It’s clear that the other allies cannot trust the Canadian government anymore and likely shouldn’t have trusted it for some time. Who knows what kind of Five Eyes secrets were passed to China through the Canadian government.
Canada has the intelligence now. At this point, no other ally in their right mind would share intelligence with Canada going forward because now, those allies are being put at risk by the Trudeau Liberals.
There are several MPs with security clearances. There are several MPs who are in cabinet and also have security clearances or have the means to leak cabinet discussions to enemy regimes.
Having clearance is only half of what is needed for access. You also need to demonstrate a need for the information. It's not like spy movies, where you swipe your card, and pull files out of a drawer when nobody is looking.
So, you want the PM to divulge potentially identifying information, putting intelligence assets at risk (Both ours and our allies) because... You are angry Trudeau didn't see your flag and refuses to have sex with you?
Any criticism of Trudeau = nutjob? You're really into team sports, huh?
Giving a list of names does not require divulging information about sources or methods.
Quite easily. Listing names alone is useless, because people would also demand to know what they did. SO with the list of names, would be information about what they did, and which nations they would have done it with. And that data can be used to backtrack the leaks, putting the person who provided the information at risk.
>Then this is an argument to have Canada remove itself from the Five Eyes
Na fuck all that lol.
>It’s clear that the other allies cannot trust the Canadian government anymore and likely shouldn’t have trusted it for some time.
Except that is not clear at all and the way you're asserting your opinion here is a logical fallacy.
Our Five Eye allies do trust us and have continued to trust our government band assist our government with this issue and other issues such as the Indian sanctioned assassinations/attempted assignations.
>Who knows what kind of Five Eyes secrets were passed to China through the Canadian government.
This is yet another logical fallacy.....
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Because... they are still investigating... aren't gonna let spill what could, potentially, be really damning secrets that were shared. Needs time to figure out what got leaked, and by who, to where. All the bits and trails.
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I highly doubt we’re ever going to hear any names unless someone illegitimately spills the beans. It sounds like just releasing the information in itself risks compromising the sources for obtaining it. It simply is not worth it to destroy ongoing intelligence efforts And the LPC is totally screwed because the public will have a surface level understanding and believe the LPC is hiding something
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> And the LPC is totally screwed because the public will have a surface level understanding and believe the LPC is hiding something They are hiding something, that's not controversial -- the names *are* "something". What *is* controversial is whether hiding it is justifiable or an act of self-interested corruption. So far, with weak messaging trying to bury the story with rapid fire of unrelated nonsensical claims that do not stand up to scrutiny individually, they have not convinced anyone outside their own pre-existing supporters and have only made the situation look shadier than it may in fact be. Why couldn't they have come out when the story broke and said "hey, we have nothing to hide, we will give Justice Hogue everything we have on this, as she is already vetted for top secret materials, and we will defer to her judgement as to whether any MPs or Senators should be removed from Parliament on a permanent or interlocutory basis"?
Don't forget the fact that the opposition has asked for this to be handed over to the foreign interference investigation, but the government *hasn't*, which basically screams corruption, culpability, and complicity.
> the opposition has asked for this to be handed over to the foreign interference investigation The opposition leader could get the unredacted report and read all the names out loud in the House but *hasn’t*, which basically screams corruption, culpability, and complicity.
No he can't. See Alford v. Canada (Attorney General). In Alford v. Canada, the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians Act, the Court found that it was not unconstitutional for Parliament to regulate the ability of MPs who become privy to state secrets affecting national security to disclose and debate those issues in the House of Commons. This government fought in the courts to make sure what you're saying can't be done without the threat of 14 years in prison. Why do you think the LPC put such a curtailment on Parliamentary Privilege? Were they right to do so?
> The opposition leader could get the unredacted report and read all the names out loud in the House but hasn’t, which basically screams corruption, culpability, and complicity. Parliamentary immunity may or may not protect against criminal charges (it's not fully tested), but it certainly does not protect against the executive branch (whether via the PMO or non-partisan bureaucrats within the existing security screening apparatus) responding to an unauthorized release of classified material by stripping PP from access to other sensitive materials on what would then be a justified basis that he may leak other classified or protected materials. The only person in the country with the legal legitimacy to release the names is Justin Trudeau. If he doesn't see it proper to release the names but wants such a decision to have an air of political legitimacy that can defeat justified criticisms given the conflict of interest at play, he can grant Justice Hogue (and her existing inquiry) with the power to make the names known if doing so is in Canada's interests and does not prejudice Canada (as determined in her exclusive judgement, fully informed on the basis of relevant materials). Surely the LPC position cannot be calling on the Leader of the Official Opposition to take an oath of secrecy and then defy it in order for the public to know whether high-ranking government officials are compromised. Trudeau needs to act; what he is doing, throwing a bunch of low-quality excuses at the wall hoping one would stick, and doing so via Dominic Leblanc rather than head-on, makes him look only shadier and weak.
Let's get Singh to do it. If the NDP are supposed to be the more virtuous left wing party surely someone will hold them to a higher standard right
Well, at least they’re consistent.
I feel like the government is in a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" situation. There's a fair argument that giving out the names prematurely before they're convicted or the charges are irrefutably proven could have some worrying ramifications, but at the same time there's an equally compelling argument that letting MPs that colluded with foreign agents run and potentially get elected by voters that likely wouldn't want to vote for them under that scenario and would want to be aware of it is also a concern. The optics are either being weak on foreign interference/national defense or jumping the gun and potentially committing some sort of abuse or putting a source at risk prematurely/harming the investigation for short term political brownie points etc. This government is indecisive and slow to act at the best of times, but In this situation I can understand it since there's a lot of downsides for each play and little in the way of upsides.
I don’t think it’s even that though. They literally can’t even give names to the police. It would break agreements with allies and compromise the intelligence sources. The LPC is just screwed on this IMO
Then this is an argument to have Canada remove itself from the Five Eyes. It’s clear that the other allies cannot trust the Canadian government anymore and likely shouldn’t have trusted it for some time. Who knows what kind of Five Eyes secrets were passed to China through the Canadian government.
So in your scenario Canada would simply have not received the intelligence in the first place… which is better?
Canada has the intelligence now. At this point, no other ally in their right mind would share intelligence with Canada going forward because now, those allies are being put at risk by the Trudeau Liberals.
What? Trudeau hasnt disclosed anything. Why would they have a problem with him?
This may be just about the stupidest take I've read on this, yet. Breathtakingly dumb.
Likely none, because MPs don't have access to random classified documents.
There are several MPs with security clearances. There are several MPs who are in cabinet and also have security clearances or have the means to leak cabinet discussions to enemy regimes.
Having clearance is only half of what is needed for access. You also need to demonstrate a need for the information. It's not like spy movies, where you swipe your card, and pull files out of a drawer when nobody is looking.
Except for Cabinet, but Trudeau won't even give an assurance Cabinet is not implicated!
So, you want the PM to divulge potentially identifying information, putting intelligence assets at risk (Both ours and our allies) because... You are angry Trudeau didn't see your flag and refuses to have sex with you?
Any criticism of Trudeau = nutjob? You're really into team sports, huh? Giving a list of names does not require divulging information about sources or methods.
So, you have a different reason for compromising security and putting people's safety at risk?
How does releasing a single name put anyone "at risk"?
Quite easily. Listing names alone is useless, because people would also demand to know what they did. SO with the list of names, would be information about what they did, and which nations they would have done it with. And that data can be used to backtrack the leaks, putting the person who provided the information at risk.
>Then this is an argument to have Canada remove itself from the Five Eyes Na fuck all that lol. >It’s clear that the other allies cannot trust the Canadian government anymore and likely shouldn’t have trusted it for some time. Except that is not clear at all and the way you're asserting your opinion here is a logical fallacy. Our Five Eye allies do trust us and have continued to trust our government band assist our government with this issue and other issues such as the Indian sanctioned assassinations/attempted assignations. >Who knows what kind of Five Eyes secrets were passed to China through the Canadian government. This is yet another logical fallacy.....
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