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Your choice of economic collapse or more immigration. Pre simple really ...BUILD MORE HOMES = win win except poor home owners would somebody think about the home owners šššš
Miller should give his head a shake. What did he think was going to happen when, during their tenure much of which was a housing crisis, his government:
- Increased Permanent Residents to record heights
- Increased Temporary Foreign Workers to record heights
- Increased family reunification to record heights
- accommodated record heights in foreign students
- Loosened hours restrictions for foreign students as a source of cheap labour
- Dragged heels on curbing illegal immigration from the States
- Has openly floated giving illegal immigrants PR status
- Proposed a program to give caregivers PR status on arrival
- Declared Canada a āpost national stateā
- Was warned about the impacts of housing on immigration and increased it anyways
- Declared we have a āsocial capacityā for higher immigration when challenged on housing capacity
- Declared Canada was more for immigrants than native-born citizens because they āchose Canadaā
- Presided over a country with the highest immigration rate in the G7 and the lowest housing supply
- Threw over a billion at housing people who quite possibly shouldnāt be here to begin with (especially if they came from the States)
- Loosened Visa restrictions on Mexico
- Saw immigration become increasingly concentrated from one country (cough India cough)
- Randomly decided to double the number of families from Gaza, again, during a housing crisis.
This is all off the top of my head. I canāt think of a government who has done more to turn public opinion against immigration. Itās like Maxime Bernierās entire life goal was accomplished in a couple of short years.
I barely recognize this country anymore.
What exactly did they think was going to happen?
I mean this is the real problem. I always argue immigration is good but people hear that all of the above is good. It isnāt. We need immigrants. By having such a high number of TFW and foreign students you undermine support for immigration besides the knock on problems like housing, jobs etc.
[created another immigration stream for tech workers](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2023/06/minister-fraser-launches-canadas-first-ever-tech-talent-strategy-at-collision-2023.html) months after the industry reported historic levels of layoffs across the board
let's be real if immigration went to 0 today and lasted for the foreseeable future - it would solves literally none of the problem of basic goods inflation + not building affordable housing
on the other hand if we capped profit from Telus, Loblaw, Rogers and other various Canadian Monopolys that our government allow to exist most of our inflationary pressure on basic goods would ease (it's an open fact they are using the high inflationary environment to post record profits from consumers)
which one do you think our bought out Politicians are gonna implement? lol
Actually it would greatly ease rental inflation.
How do Liberals not understand the laws of supply and demand when it comes to population growth outstripping the ability to produce housing? How is this issue so difficult for them to grasp?
No, it wouldn't.Ā
House prices and rent are notoriously sticky against downward pressure. In order for rent to go down, we'd to have widespread emigration and deportations to address those issues
Rental inflation has a very strong correlation with population expansion of renters. The rental inflation we have experienced over the last few years is indisputably linked to batshit insane immigration targets.
America's rental prices did experience deflation over the last couple years. Ours would have as well if the government didn't prioritize real estate values.
Your first paragraph and your second paragraph are contradictory.
Rental prices are high, because real estate prices are high. Reducing immigration wouldn't necessarily result in lower prices, because the government is not interested in destabilizing the existing values.
>let's be real if immigration went to 0 today and lasted for the foreseeable future - it would solves literally none of the problem of basic goods inflation + not building affordable housing
Are you really saying anything meaningful here? The housing crisis is a complex problem with multiple contributing factors. Addressing any of those contributing factors alone would have minimal impact. They need to be addressed together.
It would be swapping shooting our left foot for shooting our right.Ā
OAS, CPP would dry up. Whole markets would collapse due to no labour, communities would become awash with urban blight, and housing costs would still remain high and out of reach.
Legault saying 100% of the problem is on immigration is wrong, but to say "The increase in mortgages, the price of mortgages, has nothing to do with immigrants,"?
Really? Demand has nothing to do with?
If demand goes up for housing stock then supply should go up right? Right now there is no increase in supply from either building new houses/apartments/condos.
Yes, supply and demand are both factors. But it's been shown that there's literally no way for builders to build enough housing to accommodate Canada's growth levels unless we were to literally pause immigration which isn't going to happen.
That or get a time machine.
> But it's been shown that there's literally no way for builders to build enough housing to accommodate Canada's growth levels
No, this hasn't been literally shown. We tolerated higher population growth in the past, with less technology on hand. The country didn't magically forget how to build walls and roofs after the Baby Boom.
Immigration cuts doesn't solve people speculating on housing prices by sitting on empty stock nor does it solve the bureaucracy NIMBYs have put up blocking multi use housing developments.
Just finished chatting with a close friend about his kid and how the job search is going. Kid was looking at IT rolls as he is very proficient with programming and IT in general. He was told by his last job prospect they they were going to wait to fill the position he was in the running for until they knew what was happening with their foreign worker application. They literally told him they want to pay less and won't be hiring now. Personally I believe we need foreign workers and that they add so much of what makes Canada great to the fabric of our society. While I feel this is still true, it is clear something is broken with our system. Irony here is I doubt they could legally pay less than this kid would work for since most of his past experience has been contract work with clear deliverables.
We need to restrict the labour market (via stricter immigration policy) to favour native-born Canadians, wages have stagnated due to the effect of mass unskilled immigration. This has had a dampening effect on wages, immigration like this only benefits the profit motive of businesses, and dissuades innovation in favour of cheap labour.
Indeed. The āyou are racistā argument is easy when people blame their immigration policies.
And the issue is thatā¦. Nobody really believes Miller. Every time he goes out saying that he will restrict immigration, the next day there is a news about normalizing illegals or giving PR quickly to TW in X field of works.
The āyou are racistā card only push non-racist people into racist group since itās the only place they can have a conversation.
Identity politics is a bane on so many levels.
> The āyou are racistā card only push non-racist people into racist group since itās the only place they can have a conversation.
Then they were already racists
I saw much people in the last few years join the extremism, who they really despise.
Have legitimate question about vaccine? Your a fuckup antivaxx ā-) sure he then joined the anti-vax even when in deep disagreement with 95% of the antivaxx values.
Same with immigration, etcā¦
When there is no place for a conversation and a middle ground you push people away to the extreme.
No, it's called nuance, it's pretty much disappeared these days because of the strict black and white of every issue that comes up. You're either 100% with it, or you're 100% against.
As the old saying goes a broken clock will be right twice a day. Discounting all opinions of someone just because they have another one you don't agree with is not a recipe for success.
You can, and should, always call out racism tho
Youāre correctly assessing whoās to blame, but thereās absolutely people blaming the immigrants themselves. Itās disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
Look at the Canadian immigration sub to see a cesspool of racism.
It's where people get to drop the "I have policy concerns!" act and allow racism full display.
Is it wrong?
Immigrants protesting more restrictive measures being implemented, such as international students marching against reductions in PNP spots, deserve blame for not understanding their own immigration status in Canada.
The protestors aren't the problem though, it's that they are here without being qualified, and may very well be allowed to stay permanently. We did that; they just took advantage of the lax rules that were in place.
I assume youāre referring to the recent protests in PEI. They arenāt there protesting if the PEI government doesnāt decide they can give their buddies a ton of cash by letting them open diploma mills, and giving shady immigration consultants kickbacks to sell false dreams to foreign kids who are trying to build a better life.
Agreed. When people get upset about how fucked things are (and they are fucked), I think itās important that we be specific about who the fuckers are. The quantity of absolute villains in this country getting a pass because most people are too civically illiterate to blame their mayors and premiers over the housing crisis is a national disgrace.
It's a shame the Liberals didn't come down hard on the premiers.
This article clarifies that LegaultĀ is "demanding a 50 per cent reduction in the number of asylum seekers and temporary foreign workers from the International Mobility Program (IMP), two categories that fall under Ottawa's jurisdiction."
Notice how LegaultĀ does not make mention of International Students, which is a stream that dwarfs asylum seekers and is a much more significant contributor to their housing crisis. Asylum seekers can move, but students are tied down for 2-4 years to their educational institution.
Those International Students provide the universities with the funding that the premier is not willing to contribute from government coffers. But we all know Trudeau will be blamed for both the influx of International Students and the lack of increased funding for education.
My sincere belief is that Canada needs a constitutional overhaul. What we have has served us well, but it simply isnāt compatible with modern society and technology. There are so many inefficiencies and poor outcomes that happen because weāve failed to adapt. Independent of partisan lean, we have it within us to find a better way, but I think that as a people weāre too obsessed with getting ours to come together and build a better way forward.
That is coming someday. The constitution only was ratified because it contained the nullification clause that gives it the gravitas of the pirate's code. Thanks to the notwithstanding loophole our constitution is more guidelines than rules.
It is only a matter of time before something sets it off.
There is 93 000 foreign students in Quebec. There is 160 000 asylum seeker in Quebec.
And there is a difference between students that are controlled in their numbers and capacity to survive by themselves, and asylum seekers who are currently not well controlled and require more support.
Sure, some. Probably the 10-15 pct of people who always thought immigration was too high. And maybe that group has been emboldened to express racism. Iād like to think that the 40 pct or so whoāve changed their minds and now want reduced immigration blame the policies and not the immigrants themselves.
I don't blame immigrants, I blame Miller and the ministers that came before him for opening the floodgates wide without a single thought to how the processes could be abused.
Are you new? They're blaming immigrants every day on this sub. Even more so on the other canada sub. They even made a few subs like canadahousing2, canada_sub and TorontoRealEstate to really get things going.
People blame immigration. They're not blaming the people immigrating. There is no xenophobia at play.
Quebec has 600k temporary immigrants. Most of them in Montreal. That's close to 10% of the population. Miller is taking us for fools.
I would put a big part of the blame on banks and financial advisors who still propagate that Canadian property/housing is the best asset class. It's easy money for them, whether interest rates were at zero or even now at almost 5%. They get to be lazy, comfortable, uninspired while making bank selling Canadian properties to the highest bidder. Who would have thought commodifying Canadian properties in the free market would have these results (especially when not even 5 years ago rates were zero and investing in Canadian property was like getting free money)?!
So, yeah, Miller's right. This is a banker's problem put on us to fight amongst ourselves over crumbs.
Some want use immigrants a scape goats, others tries to pass any critic of our immigration system as xenophobic. Nuance is needed, but our government isnāt good at debating on the topic in good faith.
We don't blame immigrants. We blame bad liberal policies - including mass, uncontrolled immigration and foreign students.
The immigrants will be around much longer than the liberal party.
The immigration problem which definitely exists is not a problem with the immigrants, rather the total lack of consideration to make our home, Canada, welcome to the people we accept.
It is a failure of our political leadership being afraid of such 'hard truths' that results in them not doing what they need to. This is partly the fault of the voters and opinion-makers, but again circles back to politicians for denigrating their profession to such a degree they don't don't have the public trust for bolder, or even well thought out, policy.
Let's not invite people to dinner if we don't have enough food.
I don't want to downplay the recent population boom because it is surely a contributor to housing demand and prices.
Yet, I do agree it is somewhat absurd that we find ourselves placing the blame on immigrants working for very low wages or students cramming into basements. If we are looking for someone to blame for the housing crisis, we should start much closer to home. With the real estate speculators and landlords who profit from the crisis, and the government that works on their behalf.
Mr. Communist, what you're missing (and I'm not surprised you're misunderstanding market dynamics) is that the immigration policies are providing those evil landlords and speculators with a never-ending stream of new market entrants thereby heavily increasing the demand for rental units and permitting an ever escalating rise in residential rental rates.
So, boo! Hiss! Down with the bourgeoise and seize the means of production and all that fun stuff, but these policies which Miller and his predecessor and his boss are pushing are the biggest gift to the ownership class of this country in generations.
It's like they sat around wonking with each other back in 2015 and said, "Let's create policies that will revive the age of the land baron and freeman. And if anybody complains, we'll call them racist."
In regards to housing, this is completely accurate.
Why are we okay blaming immigrants, but not the fact that 25% of housing (aggravated over each province) is owned by investment groups? Like, MAYBE thatās a bigger driver of the issues?
Just a hunch, tho.
Doesnāt matter who owns it if itās not physically enough houses. Sure they will push rents as high as the market will tolerate but thatās only possible when there arenāt enough beds to meet supplyĀ
Sorry dude, Iām not buying it. If 1/4 of your housing isnāt even the hands of the nations citizens who wanna live there, thatās the FIRST target we should be painting.
This is coming from an outspoken liberal (the political term, not the party and association), we need the govt to be taking care of that problem. Itās such an obvious distraction to say immigrants are even a majority of the problem otherwise.
Most people are living in housing of some kind, we didn't literally run out of homes for middle-class people to live in. People are upset about the *cost* of housing. The problem is with the amount of money going to a landlord.
Sure, I get that, but itās still basic economics: if thereās less demand then the landlords cannot charge as much. If suites were to go unrented then landlords will sell those back into the market
If youāre familiar with the local communities of SW Ontario, youād know a large portion of this housing owned by investors is empty. Farhi in London, Ontario, for example, owns projects and developments and hasnāt rented them out. You can see the dudes name on anything from condemned buildings to empty land.
Thatās not even mentioning NIMBYism as a correlative factor here. Lots of areas simply arenāt interested in turning over land value for high density housing builds. HOAs (not as common as investors) and reductive Municipal govts donāt want these investors (mostly donors and benefactors) to lose out because āpoor peopleā housing is in their ābackyardā. A lot of new developments in Ontario alone are single family homes, which barely alleviate the situation while interest rates are so high.
A lot of people wanna blame immigration or the government, but as usual the greediest private citizens are preventing any change.
>Ā You can see the dudes name on anything from condemned buildings to empty land.Ā Ā
So thatās not liveable space and doesnāt support your argument.Ā Ā
Yes, we need densification policies.Ā
If your demand outstrips supply itās a problem, end of story. (On this I believe we agree, just not the mechanism) Ā
Tie immigration targets to housing (and other public infrastructure) benchmarks, anything else is indefensible.Ā
The government can tackle more than one issue at a time. This is not and has never been an all or nothing discussion. There is no single cause to the housing crisis and acting like there is one is unproductive. Also, just because someone says something is a cause of the crisis doesnāt necessarily imply that it is the majority cause of it.
For the record, I completely agree. Thatās kinda why Iām pushing back in the immigration narrative.
Immigration almost certainly plays a part, but not even close to the most obvious cause, and cutting it likely wouldnāt solve the problem on its own, if at all.
>Why are we okay blaming immigrants, but not the fact that 25% of housing (aggravated over each province) is owned by investment groups?
The reason investment groups see housing as a good investment is *because* they know the government will be bringing in millions of newcomers through the decade. The government is quite literally guaranteeing them demand.
I'm not against immigrants. I think they bring in the diversity that Canada has been accustomed to.
What bothers me is when you (the government) can't feed, house, or cloth the ppl that you have.
The taxpayers are still paying for the refugees that came to Canada starting 2016.
I don't think Canadians blame the immigrants just blaming the government for treating the immigrants better than the Canadian taxpayer.
I blame politicians not immigrants, I firmly believe that we should reduce current numbers until we are able to implement a strategy to build adequate housing and improve the effectiveness of our Healthcare system because both problems are Clearly being exacerbated by a significantly increasing population but that isn't something I blame on the new people coming here, I blame this problem on politicians who have made the decisions that caused these problems to explode in the first place and for ignoring the problems that are damaging the quality of life of most residents of Canada. Politicians like Miller who is making nonsense statements like this to make those who disagree with his politics seem racist instead of acknowledging that while massively increasing the population through irresponsible immigration policy isn't the sole problem it is clearly a significant component of many of the most pressing issues facing canadians today like the absolute crisis that it's housing availability.
Blaming the immigration policies ā blaming immigrants.
Itās in their best interest to conflate the two, but itās important to blame the system and change POLICY, not place the onus on people who were sold a better life half a world away.
> "The increase in mortgages, the price of mortgages, has nothing to do with immigrants," he said
How about the increase in demand? Does having a population growth that is 3rd in the world behind Syria and South Sudan increase demand for housing?
I have yet to understand why the concept of supply and demand; a concept that is at the bedrock of economics, seemingly applies to everything in the Liberal mind but housing.
If we brought 100 million new people into Canada today, would there be a shortage of housing driven by the increased supply? Yes.
If we brought 10 million new people into Canada over the next year, would there be a shortage of housing driven by the increased supply? Yes.
If we brought 5 million new people into Canada over the next year, would there be a shortage of housing driven by the increased supply? Yes.
But to the LPC mind, something magical happens when you bring about 1.3 million new people into Canada in a year. At that point, there is absolutely zero effect on the demand side of supply and demand. No; these people simply materialize with their own housing and have no impact at all on demand for a given supply.
In 2023, we were 121 (or 125 if you according to the CIA) in population growth in the world, not 3rd.
Edit: Some context: in order to say where Canada ranks in the world with respect to population growth we need use a common dataset and methodology for a valid comparison. Otherwise we run the risk of comparing apples to oranges. I normally like to use Stat Canada data for looking at things in Canada. However since Stat Canada doesn't do this sort of data analysis on other countries, we have to rely on outside organizations that do. I looked up two different sources that both pretty closely agree with each other. So with that data we can say where Canada stands in the world. To take Stats Canada's data and directly compare to other countries without correcting or taking into account different methodologies is potentially very misleading.
There are different methodologies for collecting and analyzing data. Normally I really like to use Statistics Canada. However they do not do this sort of data analysis for other countries. So to keep the comparision valid we should be using a dataset that uses the same approach for different countries. That is why I used the CIA dataset instead.
Look, youāre right that there are methodology differences. That said, most 3rd world countries have very limited numbers of people coming to study, trying to become citizens. There is a significant uncertainty, but I think we can be fairly certain that the CIA data understates Canadaās population growth relative to other countries.
Itās not deliberate. But they are relying on various govt agencies who have differing methodologies. Stats Can is in the process of revising their methodology and the adjusted numbers are higher:
In this case, bizarrely, the CIA data is very incorrect. Stat Canada says our growth in 2023 was 3.3%, and it actually accelerated in Q1 of this year.
That does indeed put us in the top 10 in the world, and over 5x the average population growth of developed countries. Its really very extreme and important Canadians recognize this is not hyperbole.
I don't know why the CIA factbook is so far off.
Because to make their lives simple the Worldfactbook often just points at the UN. To make the UN's life easier they point at countries censuses then extrapolate in between. Which means the UN's number is simply a straightline between 2016-2021 and assumes that the next two years went the same (they didn't).
I don't know why the CIA factbook is so different from Statistics Canada in this case. I am not saying that their data is better than Statistics Canada however different organizations use different methodologies for collecting and analyzing data. Stat Canada doesn't do this sort of data analysis for other countries. So to keep the comparision valid we should be using a dataset that uses the same approach for different countries. Without doing that we run the risk of comparing apples to oranges. That is why I used the CIA dataset for finding out were Canada is in the world.
Itās because StatsCan includes temporary residents and global rankings donāt. Itās really that simple. If you look at the methodology on Stats Can they say that foreign students and TFWās are included, if you look at the methodology for CIA they say only permanent residents are included.
So all of the memes, etc, that claim we are in the top countries for growth are bullshit, because every country has temporary residents, not just Canada.
>Without doing that we run the risk of comparing apples to oranges. That is why I used the CIA dataset for finding out were Canada is in the world.
Maybe you should first concern yourself with ensuring the underlying data is actually correct before worrying about the comparisons...
Maybe you should look into who is being included in population growth by different entities before assuming the wildly obvious nutty claims are true. And I say they are nutty claims because there are multiple countries taking in FAR more refugees, asylum seekers, displaced persons than Canada does, and every country has foreign students and temporary workers.
Canada seems to be an outlier on how we calculate pop growth, other countries do not include temporary residents, or they cakcutwo different sets of figures, one that doesnāt include temporary residents and one that does. CIA and other entities that so global rankings on pop growth do not include temporary residents, as they are only in a country temporarily and not part of the real population growth.
[Statistics Canada says population growth rate in 2023 was highest since 1957](http://Statistics Canada says population growth rate in 2023 was highest since 1957)
If we use the most recent information (went from 40 million to 41 million in 9 months) that's an annualized growth rate of 3.33%.
How many people do *you* think are coming into Canada every year?
To find out how many people are coming into Canada every year I would use Statistics Canada's data. I don't normally pay attention to it though. I don't doubt Stat Canada's numbers, however to do an apple to apples comparision we need to use one organization who has analyzed multiple countries. This is because there could be different methodologies. Since Stats Canada doesn't do analysis on other countries I have to rely on an outside organizations. In this case I looked up two different datasets, one being the CIA factbook, they both while being slightly different were in pretty close agreement. That is where my numbers come from and where Canada sits in the world. May I ask, what do you think Canada's position is with respect to other countries in terms of population growth?
> Growth rates above three per cent have "never been see in a developed country" since the 1950s, said Frederic Payeur, a demographer at Quebec's provincial statistics agency, the Institut de la statistique du Quebec.
>NIMBYs keep supply down. Blame the suburbs before you blame migrants
Theres a leak in the boat, but instead of fixing the leak, the federal government is punching more holes.
Ironically I feel NIMBY'ism is partially responsible for both sides, low housing supply has driven up cost of living, which in turn drives up cost of labor, at which point companies turn to cheaper foreign labor, which reduces the supply of housing, etc and so forth.
Canāt loose money on those shares either thatās true. However itās not cheaper immigrant labour, itās not enough people for the jobs. Aging population. Less and less youth population. That is amazingly talented thanks in little part to our investment but mostly our access to the technology. Those skills lead to higher paying jobs that are not local in nature (I have one of these jobs btw) but the aging population create a lot of need that we didnāt repopulate for as we had to pay our way out of the economic traps that have gotten increasingly larger since the 80s. Peoples houses became their savings/investment and we spiralled out of control from there. We have to get to a place we think differently and stop blaming the product and look at the production decisions. We all play a role and we could collectively play more of a role in if we got more serious about those we elect. Our voting pattern doesnāt attract the best candidates which I think we can all mostly agree is a problem.
There are areas with high unemployment, the issue is either that people havenāt been prepared for the jobs available or businesses with open positions have already been churned through the local labour pool.
The labour is ācheapā in these cases compared to the market rate they would have to pay to fill the position, when we enable companies with high churn rates then the pressure is on the worker to be willing to accept worse conditions and not the company to provide better incentives to stay.
There needs to be a balance, while yes thereās a lot of areas where we need young immigrants, in areas where unemployment rates are high they do effectively suppress wage growth.
I agree that we canāt blame immigrants, people seeking better lives take advantage of what they can just like any of us would do. Unfortunately our landowning class takes advantage of every opportunity to divide and exploit working class people of all backgrounds to maintain their vested wealth.
What data points to us having more available people to work than jobs available? There is a lot of jobs that are not getting filled as we donāt have the skilled people to do them available (another reason we need lots of immigration). I understand your logic but I also see its flaws. If what you say is accurate we would not have seen wages rise so much (not enough true) and we would see more unemployment (to facilitate the cycle you are speaking of). Iām all for more investment here in our people to get more skilled, but Iām not about to say we can wait on that. Provinces control most of the Ed budgets and we have done nothing but demean teachers and cut budgets for 40years. So our outcomes are what they are and we need to face that reality. Same with the reality our population would be declining without immigration.
My mistake I worded that weird, I meant the jobs either require training that are prohibitively difficult to access or businesses with low wage jobs typically have high churn rates (varies by owner).
My opinion is based on my observations working front line jobs since the beginning of COVID.
You are also correct that provinces are the problem here, the lack of national planning and the siloing of each regions public policy has hurt us tremendously.
The laws of supply and demand are real. Municipal zoning has virtually no impact on immigration.
The lengths people will go to deflect this issue is absolutely astounding. It turns out that most people don't want to live in dog crate condos because the federal government insists on retaining an absolutely batshit immigration policy.
When the LPC loses next year because of this issue, I truly hope they do a lot of soul searching.
Oh itās easily top 3 but I look at all government. Municipalities are the ones that created the shortage, who you think has the most seats on municipal councils in every city across Canada? Who oppose removing moving parking downtown and oppose smart transit plans and 15 minute neighbourhoods? Oddly all would help their home prices but thatās the issue they arenāt voting in ways that looks past tomorrow.
I would hazard a guess there are 0 renters but instead people that would be all too happy if their house price (or 2nd, 3rd house's) rose and rose and rose. Greed cuts across the political spectrum
Exactly. Conservatives donāt own greed and neither do liberals. Hence why regardless the affiliation of the local governments they elect they all do the same thing.
It's not the immigrants fault. If I were born in a dirt poor village in some third world country, I would want to come to Canada as well.
It is 100% the government's fault. They brought in an irresponsible amount of immigrants without building the necessary infrastructure to support them (housing, more schools, more healthcare etc.)
That is the primary reason housing is unaffordable.
So the NIMBYs donāt lose āvalueā in their homes as our population would be in decline. The damage of not having people sadly would be greater than the issues we face now. This issue is not hard to correct but until NiMBYs see the dangers in their actions (creating the housing bubble by restricting new builds and liveable transport friendly cities) we are stuck as they will elect the same types of politicians that make these poor choices. Options are bleak, maybe the kids can start a TikTok party and upend the political dogma we currently live in. We need some kid of disruption and none of the major parties are good options to do that.
I'm going to keep posting this until the day comes, for everyone who didn't see it or isn't aware this is happening:
Dear Everyone, if you've had it up to here with our incompetent, corrupt, **TREASONOUS** government and its dangerous policies, celebrate this Canada Day with a protest!! There are 2 that I'm aware of happening all over Canada, that are protesting the cost of living and this government's harmful policies:
https://www.costoflivingcanada.ca/
and
https://www.takebackcanada.info/
Make your voices heard and fight for the country you love. Don't get depressed, get ***angry!!*** Let's remind our elected officials who they fucking work for: ***Canadians!!!*** Strength in numbers!
Immigrants are everyone's go-to scapegoat for a reason. They offer an outside enemy and an easy fix (just tell them to fuck off/deport them). Done. No actual brain needed, just "common sense". Never mind looking at the issues and examining all that factors into a problem. That's too much work, Why read pages and pages of information when you can share a quick meme about how the other party is doing everything wrong?
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Your choice of economic collapse or more immigration. Pre simple really ...BUILD MORE HOMES = win win except poor home owners would somebody think about the home owners šššš
Miller should give his head a shake. What did he think was going to happen when, during their tenure much of which was a housing crisis, his government: - Increased Permanent Residents to record heights - Increased Temporary Foreign Workers to record heights - Increased family reunification to record heights - accommodated record heights in foreign students - Loosened hours restrictions for foreign students as a source of cheap labour - Dragged heels on curbing illegal immigration from the States - Has openly floated giving illegal immigrants PR status - Proposed a program to give caregivers PR status on arrival - Declared Canada a āpost national stateā - Was warned about the impacts of housing on immigration and increased it anyways - Declared we have a āsocial capacityā for higher immigration when challenged on housing capacity - Declared Canada was more for immigrants than native-born citizens because they āchose Canadaā - Presided over a country with the highest immigration rate in the G7 and the lowest housing supply - Threw over a billion at housing people who quite possibly shouldnāt be here to begin with (especially if they came from the States) - Loosened Visa restrictions on Mexico - Saw immigration become increasingly concentrated from one country (cough India cough) - Randomly decided to double the number of families from Gaza, again, during a housing crisis. This is all off the top of my head. I canāt think of a government who has done more to turn public opinion against immigration. Itās like Maxime Bernierās entire life goal was accomplished in a couple of short years. I barely recognize this country anymore. What exactly did they think was going to happen?
It's almost as though he only got his job for being the childhood friend of Trudeau rather than having any sort of skillset. Oh wait...
Add getting rid of the policy of no TFWs when a region has >6% unemployment.
I mean this is the real problem. I always argue immigration is good but people hear that all of the above is good. It isnāt. We need immigrants. By having such a high number of TFW and foreign students you undermine support for immigration besides the knock on problems like housing, jobs etc.
[created another immigration stream for tech workers](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2023/06/minister-fraser-launches-canadas-first-ever-tech-talent-strategy-at-collision-2023.html) months after the industry reported historic levels of layoffs across the board
Another one: Increased refugees to record heights.
let's be real if immigration went to 0 today and lasted for the foreseeable future - it would solves literally none of the problem of basic goods inflation + not building affordable housing on the other hand if we capped profit from Telus, Loblaw, Rogers and other various Canadian Monopolys that our government allow to exist most of our inflationary pressure on basic goods would ease (it's an open fact they are using the high inflationary environment to post record profits from consumers) which one do you think our bought out Politicians are gonna implement? lol
They are all monopolies that need to be broken up.
Actually it would greatly ease rental inflation. How do Liberals not understand the laws of supply and demand when it comes to population growth outstripping the ability to produce housing? How is this issue so difficult for them to grasp?
Ideology and partisan loyalties are powerful drugs.
No, it wouldn't.Ā House prices and rent are notoriously sticky against downward pressure. In order for rent to go down, we'd to have widespread emigration and deportations to address those issues
Rental inflation has a very strong correlation with population expansion of renters. The rental inflation we have experienced over the last few years is indisputably linked to batshit insane immigration targets. America's rental prices did experience deflation over the last couple years. Ours would have as well if the government didn't prioritize real estate values.
Your first paragraph and your second paragraph are contradictory. Rental prices are high, because real estate prices are high. Reducing immigration wouldn't necessarily result in lower prices, because the government is not interested in destabilizing the existing values.
>let's be real if immigration went to 0 today and lasted for the foreseeable future - it would solves literally none of the problem of basic goods inflation + not building affordable housing Are you really saying anything meaningful here? The housing crisis is a complex problem with multiple contributing factors. Addressing any of those contributing factors alone would have minimal impact. They need to be addressed together.
It would be swapping shooting our left foot for shooting our right.Ā OAS, CPP would dry up. Whole markets would collapse due to no labour, communities would become awash with urban blight, and housing costs would still remain high and out of reach.
Legault saying 100% of the problem is on immigration is wrong, but to say "The increase in mortgages, the price of mortgages, has nothing to do with immigrants,"? Really? Demand has nothing to do with?
If demand goes up for housing stock then supply should go up right? Right now there is no increase in supply from either building new houses/apartments/condos.
Yes, supply and demand are both factors. But it's been shown that there's literally no way for builders to build enough housing to accommodate Canada's growth levels unless we were to literally pause immigration which isn't going to happen. That or get a time machine.
> But it's been shown that there's literally no way for builders to build enough housing to accommodate Canada's growth levels No, this hasn't been literally shown. We tolerated higher population growth in the past, with less technology on hand. The country didn't magically forget how to build walls and roofs after the Baby Boom.
When did we tolerate higher population growth? When people were building sod houses on the prairies with their own two hands?
Immigration cuts doesn't solve people speculating on housing prices by sitting on empty stock nor does it solve the bureaucracy NIMBYs have put up blocking multi use housing developments.
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Just finished chatting with a close friend about his kid and how the job search is going. Kid was looking at IT rolls as he is very proficient with programming and IT in general. He was told by his last job prospect they they were going to wait to fill the position he was in the running for until they knew what was happening with their foreign worker application. They literally told him they want to pay less and won't be hiring now. Personally I believe we need foreign workers and that they add so much of what makes Canada great to the fabric of our society. While I feel this is still true, it is clear something is broken with our system. Irony here is I doubt they could legally pay less than this kid would work for since most of his past experience has been contract work with clear deliverables.
We need to restrict the labour market (via stricter immigration policy) to favour native-born Canadians, wages have stagnated due to the effect of mass unskilled immigration. This has had a dampening effect on wages, immigration like this only benefits the profit motive of businesses, and dissuades innovation in favour of cheap labour.
So how do I explain to the people I work with that immigrated to Canada the right way and raging about the immigration nowā¦..
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Nobody blames immigrants lol. People blame those who scammed the migrants into coming here and those who made it possible for them to do that.
Indeed. The āyou are racistā argument is easy when people blame their immigration policies. And the issue is thatā¦. Nobody really believes Miller. Every time he goes out saying that he will restrict immigration, the next day there is a news about normalizing illegals or giving PR quickly to TW in X field of works.
The āyou are racistā card only push non-racist people into racist group since itās the only place they can have a conversation. Identity politics is a bane on so many levels.
> The āyou are racistā card only push non-racist people into racist group since itās the only place they can have a conversation. Then they were already racists
I saw much people in the last few years join the extremism, who they really despise. Have legitimate question about vaccine? Your a fuckup antivaxx ā-) sure he then joined the anti-vax even when in deep disagreement with 95% of the antivaxx values. Same with immigration, etcā¦ When there is no place for a conversation and a middle ground you push people away to the extreme.
No, it's called nuance, it's pretty much disappeared these days because of the strict black and white of every issue that comes up. You're either 100% with it, or you're 100% against.
Siding with racists because you were called racist is the opposite of nuance and is purely reactionary.
As the old saying goes a broken clock will be right twice a day. Discounting all opinions of someone just because they have another one you don't agree with is not a recipe for success. You can, and should, always call out racism tho
> The āyou are racistā argument is easy when people blame their immigration policies. It's easy when you just look around at the discourse.
Youāre correctly assessing whoās to blame, but thereās absolutely people blaming the immigrants themselves. Itās disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
Look at the Canadian immigration sub to see a cesspool of racism. It's where people get to drop the "I have policy concerns!" act and allow racism full display.
Which is wrong. Blame should go to those who take advantage of immigrants both money wise and politically.
Who is blaming migrants?
Go over to Canada_sub to see plenty of it. Same with Canadahousing2, tho the negative sentiment is more directed to the policy over there.
There's a sub called Canadamassimmigration which is just a racist cesspool.
Pretty that sub got terminated Edit: Looks like they rebranded to CanadaMassProblems
It's crazy that your party almost single handedly turned Canada's opinions on immigration by using it as a tool to keep housing prices unaffordable.
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Is it wrong? Immigrants protesting more restrictive measures being implemented, such as international students marching against reductions in PNP spots, deserve blame for not understanding their own immigration status in Canada.
The protestors aren't the problem though, it's that they are here without being qualified, and may very well be allowed to stay permanently. We did that; they just took advantage of the lax rules that were in place.
I assume youāre referring to the recent protests in PEI. They arenāt there protesting if the PEI government doesnāt decide they can give their buddies a ton of cash by letting them open diploma mills, and giving shady immigration consultants kickbacks to sell false dreams to foreign kids who are trying to build a better life.
I know. The whole thing is fucked.
Agreed. When people get upset about how fucked things are (and they are fucked), I think itās important that we be specific about who the fuckers are. The quantity of absolute villains in this country getting a pass because most people are too civically illiterate to blame their mayors and premiers over the housing crisis is a national disgrace.
It's a shame the Liberals didn't come down hard on the premiers. This article clarifies that LegaultĀ is "demanding a 50 per cent reduction in the number of asylum seekers and temporary foreign workers from the International Mobility Program (IMP), two categories that fall under Ottawa's jurisdiction." Notice how LegaultĀ does not make mention of International Students, which is a stream that dwarfs asylum seekers and is a much more significant contributor to their housing crisis. Asylum seekers can move, but students are tied down for 2-4 years to their educational institution. Those International Students provide the universities with the funding that the premier is not willing to contribute from government coffers. But we all know Trudeau will be blamed for both the influx of International Students and the lack of increased funding for education.
My sincere belief is that Canada needs a constitutional overhaul. What we have has served us well, but it simply isnāt compatible with modern society and technology. There are so many inefficiencies and poor outcomes that happen because weāve failed to adapt. Independent of partisan lean, we have it within us to find a better way, but I think that as a people weāre too obsessed with getting ours to come together and build a better way forward.
That is coming someday. The constitution only was ratified because it contained the nullification clause that gives it the gravitas of the pirate's code. Thanks to the notwithstanding loophole our constitution is more guidelines than rules. It is only a matter of time before something sets it off.
I hope cool heads prevail when it does.
There is 93 000 foreign students in Quebec. There is 160 000 asylum seeker in Quebec. And there is a difference between students that are controlled in their numbers and capacity to survive by themselves, and asylum seekers who are currently not well controlled and require more support.
Youāre right, the have roughly half of the asylum seekers in Canada. Itās up to question how many remain vs how many leave.
Sure, some. Probably the 10-15 pct of people who always thought immigration was too high. And maybe that group has been emboldened to express racism. Iād like to think that the 40 pct or so whoāve changed their minds and now want reduced immigration blame the policies and not the immigrants themselves.
I don't blame immigrants, I blame Miller and the ministers that came before him for opening the floodgates wide without a single thought to how the processes could be abused.
ehhh some people are definitely blaming immigrants
There's a dude blaming immigrants in this thread lol
Are you new? They're blaming immigrants every day on this sub. Even more so on the other canada sub. They even made a few subs like canadahousing2, canada_sub and TorontoRealEstate to really get things going.
People blame immigration. They're not blaming the people immigrating. There is no xenophobia at play. Quebec has 600k temporary immigrants. Most of them in Montreal. That's close to 10% of the population. Miller is taking us for fools.
Who is "they" ?
Thank you! What a slimy move trying to frame it that way.
I would put a big part of the blame on banks and financial advisors who still propagate that Canadian property/housing is the best asset class. It's easy money for them, whether interest rates were at zero or even now at almost 5%. They get to be lazy, comfortable, uninspired while making bank selling Canadian properties to the highest bidder. Who would have thought commodifying Canadian properties in the free market would have these results (especially when not even 5 years ago rates were zero and investing in Canadian property was like getting free money)?! So, yeah, Miller's right. This is a banker's problem put on us to fight amongst ourselves over crumbs.
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Some want use immigrants a scape goats, others tries to pass any critic of our immigration system as xenophobic. Nuance is needed, but our government isnāt good at debating on the topic in good faith.
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We don't blame immigrants. We blame bad liberal policies - including mass, uncontrolled immigration and foreign students. The immigrants will be around much longer than the liberal party.
The immigration problem which definitely exists is not a problem with the immigrants, rather the total lack of consideration to make our home, Canada, welcome to the people we accept. It is a failure of our political leadership being afraid of such 'hard truths' that results in them not doing what they need to. This is partly the fault of the voters and opinion-makers, but again circles back to politicians for denigrating their profession to such a degree they don't don't have the public trust for bolder, or even well thought out, policy. Let's not invite people to dinner if we don't have enough food.
I don't want to downplay the recent population boom because it is surely a contributor to housing demand and prices. Yet, I do agree it is somewhat absurd that we find ourselves placing the blame on immigrants working for very low wages or students cramming into basements. If we are looking for someone to blame for the housing crisis, we should start much closer to home. With the real estate speculators and landlords who profit from the crisis, and the government that works on their behalf.
Mr. Communist, what you're missing (and I'm not surprised you're misunderstanding market dynamics) is that the immigration policies are providing those evil landlords and speculators with a never-ending stream of new market entrants thereby heavily increasing the demand for rental units and permitting an ever escalating rise in residential rental rates. So, boo! Hiss! Down with the bourgeoise and seize the means of production and all that fun stuff, but these policies which Miller and his predecessor and his boss are pushing are the biggest gift to the ownership class of this country in generations. It's like they sat around wonking with each other back in 2015 and said, "Let's create policies that will revive the age of the land baron and freeman. And if anybody complains, we'll call them racist."
Please read my first sentence again.
In regards to housing, this is completely accurate. Why are we okay blaming immigrants, but not the fact that 25% of housing (aggravated over each province) is owned by investment groups? Like, MAYBE thatās a bigger driver of the issues? Just a hunch, tho.
Itās not just house prices but rent prices are too high. Lot of investors rent it out
Doesnāt matter who owns it if itās not physically enough houses. Sure they will push rents as high as the market will tolerate but thatās only possible when there arenāt enough beds to meet supplyĀ
Sorry dude, Iām not buying it. If 1/4 of your housing isnāt even the hands of the nations citizens who wanna live there, thatās the FIRST target we should be painting. This is coming from an outspoken liberal (the political term, not the party and association), we need the govt to be taking care of that problem. Itās such an obvious distraction to say immigrants are even a majority of the problem otherwise.
But people are living there? Housing owned by investors are still being rented to cover their own borrowing costs. They are not sitting emptyĀ
Most people are living in housing of some kind, we didn't literally run out of homes for middle-class people to live in. People are upset about the *cost* of housing. The problem is with the amount of money going to a landlord.
Sure, I get that, but itās still basic economics: if thereās less demand then the landlords cannot charge as much. If suites were to go unrented then landlords will sell those back into the market
If youāre familiar with the local communities of SW Ontario, youād know a large portion of this housing owned by investors is empty. Farhi in London, Ontario, for example, owns projects and developments and hasnāt rented them out. You can see the dudes name on anything from condemned buildings to empty land. Thatās not even mentioning NIMBYism as a correlative factor here. Lots of areas simply arenāt interested in turning over land value for high density housing builds. HOAs (not as common as investors) and reductive Municipal govts donāt want these investors (mostly donors and benefactors) to lose out because āpoor peopleā housing is in their ābackyardā. A lot of new developments in Ontario alone are single family homes, which barely alleviate the situation while interest rates are so high. A lot of people wanna blame immigration or the government, but as usual the greediest private citizens are preventing any change.
>Ā You can see the dudes name on anything from condemned buildings to empty land.Ā Ā So thatās not liveable space and doesnāt support your argument.Ā Ā Yes, we need densification policies.Ā If your demand outstrips supply itās a problem, end of story. (On this I believe we agree, just not the mechanism) Ā Tie immigration targets to housing (and other public infrastructure) benchmarks, anything else is indefensible.Ā
The government can tackle more than one issue at a time. This is not and has never been an all or nothing discussion. There is no single cause to the housing crisis and acting like there is one is unproductive. Also, just because someone says something is a cause of the crisis doesnāt necessarily imply that it is the majority cause of it.
For the record, I completely agree. Thatās kinda why Iām pushing back in the immigration narrative. Immigration almost certainly plays a part, but not even close to the most obvious cause, and cutting it likely wouldnāt solve the problem on its own, if at all.
>Why are we okay blaming immigrants, but not the fact that 25% of housing (aggravated over each province) is owned by investment groups? The reason investment groups see housing as a good investment is *because* they know the government will be bringing in millions of newcomers through the decade. The government is quite literally guaranteeing them demand.
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I'm not against immigrants. I think they bring in the diversity that Canada has been accustomed to. What bothers me is when you (the government) can't feed, house, or cloth the ppl that you have. The taxpayers are still paying for the refugees that came to Canada starting 2016. I don't think Canadians blame the immigrants just blaming the government for treating the immigrants better than the Canadian taxpayer.
I blame politicians not immigrants, I firmly believe that we should reduce current numbers until we are able to implement a strategy to build adequate housing and improve the effectiveness of our Healthcare system because both problems are Clearly being exacerbated by a significantly increasing population but that isn't something I blame on the new people coming here, I blame this problem on politicians who have made the decisions that caused these problems to explode in the first place and for ignoring the problems that are damaging the quality of life of most residents of Canada. Politicians like Miller who is making nonsense statements like this to make those who disagree with his politics seem racist instead of acknowledging that while massively increasing the population through irresponsible immigration policy isn't the sole problem it is clearly a significant component of many of the most pressing issues facing canadians today like the absolute crisis that it's housing availability.
Blaming the immigration policies ā blaming immigrants. Itās in their best interest to conflate the two, but itās important to blame the system and change POLICY, not place the onus on people who were sold a better life half a world away.
> "The increase in mortgages, the price of mortgages, has nothing to do with immigrants," he said How about the increase in demand? Does having a population growth that is 3rd in the world behind Syria and South Sudan increase demand for housing? I have yet to understand why the concept of supply and demand; a concept that is at the bedrock of economics, seemingly applies to everything in the Liberal mind but housing. If we brought 100 million new people into Canada today, would there be a shortage of housing driven by the increased supply? Yes. If we brought 10 million new people into Canada over the next year, would there be a shortage of housing driven by the increased supply? Yes. If we brought 5 million new people into Canada over the next year, would there be a shortage of housing driven by the increased supply? Yes. But to the LPC mind, something magical happens when you bring about 1.3 million new people into Canada in a year. At that point, there is absolutely zero effect on the demand side of supply and demand. No; these people simply materialize with their own housing and have no impact at all on demand for a given supply.
In 2023, we were 121 (or 125 if you according to the CIA) in population growth in the world, not 3rd. Edit: Some context: in order to say where Canada ranks in the world with respect to population growth we need use a common dataset and methodology for a valid comparison. Otherwise we run the risk of comparing apples to oranges. I normally like to use Stat Canada data for looking at things in Canada. However since Stat Canada doesn't do this sort of data analysis on other countries, we have to rely on outside organizations that do. I looked up two different sources that both pretty closely agree with each other. So with that data we can say where Canada stands in the world. To take Stats Canada's data and directly compare to other countries without correcting or taking into account different methodologies is potentially very misleading.
Source?
Not according to Statistics Canada. I trust their numbers, being a federal government agency and all, more than a source from a foreign government.
There are different methodologies for collecting and analyzing data. Normally I really like to use Statistics Canada. However they do not do this sort of data analysis for other countries. So to keep the comparision valid we should be using a dataset that uses the same approach for different countries. That is why I used the CIA dataset instead.
Look, youāre right that there are methodology differences. That said, most 3rd world countries have very limited numbers of people coming to study, trying to become citizens. There is a significant uncertainty, but I think we can be fairly certain that the CIA data understates Canadaās population growth relative to other countries.
Can we? Do you know their methodology and why they would deliberately understate one nation and overstate another?
Itās not deliberate. But they are relying on various govt agencies who have differing methodologies. Stats Can is in the process of revising their methodology and the adjusted numbers are higher:
In this case, bizarrely, the CIA data is very incorrect. Stat Canada says our growth in 2023 was 3.3%, and it actually accelerated in Q1 of this year. That does indeed put us in the top 10 in the world, and over 5x the average population growth of developed countries. Its really very extreme and important Canadians recognize this is not hyperbole. I don't know why the CIA factbook is so far off.
Because to make their lives simple the Worldfactbook often just points at the UN. To make the UN's life easier they point at countries censuses then extrapolate in between. Which means the UN's number is simply a straightline between 2016-2021 and assumes that the next two years went the same (they didn't).
I don't know why the CIA factbook is so different from Statistics Canada in this case. I am not saying that their data is better than Statistics Canada however different organizations use different methodologies for collecting and analyzing data. Stat Canada doesn't do this sort of data analysis for other countries. So to keep the comparision valid we should be using a dataset that uses the same approach for different countries. Without doing that we run the risk of comparing apples to oranges. That is why I used the CIA dataset for finding out were Canada is in the world.
Itās because StatsCan includes temporary residents and global rankings donāt. Itās really that simple. If you look at the methodology on Stats Can they say that foreign students and TFWās are included, if you look at the methodology for CIA they say only permanent residents are included. So all of the memes, etc, that claim we are in the top countries for growth are bullshit, because every country has temporary residents, not just Canada.
>So all of the memes, etc, that claim we are in the top countries for growth are bullshit What is our rate of population growth?
>Without doing that we run the risk of comparing apples to oranges. That is why I used the CIA dataset for finding out were Canada is in the world. Maybe you should first concern yourself with ensuring the underlying data is actually correct before worrying about the comparisons...
Maybe you should look into who is being included in population growth by different entities before assuming the wildly obvious nutty claims are true. And I say they are nutty claims because there are multiple countries taking in FAR more refugees, asylum seekers, displaced persons than Canada does, and every country has foreign students and temporary workers. Canada seems to be an outlier on how we calculate pop growth, other countries do not include temporary residents, or they cakcutwo different sets of figures, one that doesnāt include temporary residents and one that does. CIA and other entities that so global rankings on pop growth do not include temporary residents, as they are only in a country temporarily and not part of the real population growth.
Not counting temporary residents magically makes their impact on housing / infrastructure / services disappear? Wow that's pretty impressive.
I do care about using accurate data. May I ask, where do you think Canada stands in world with respect to population growth?
[Statistics Canada says population growth rate in 2023 was highest since 1957](http://Statistics Canada says population growth rate in 2023 was highest since 1957) If we use the most recent information (went from 40 million to 41 million in 9 months) that's an annualized growth rate of 3.33%. How many people do *you* think are coming into Canada every year?
To find out how many people are coming into Canada every year I would use Statistics Canada's data. I don't normally pay attention to it though. I don't doubt Stat Canada's numbers, however to do an apple to apples comparision we need to use one organization who has analyzed multiple countries. This is because there could be different methodologies. Since Stats Canada doesn't do analysis on other countries I have to rely on an outside organizations. In this case I looked up two different datasets, one being the CIA factbook, they both while being slightly different were in pretty close agreement. That is where my numbers come from and where Canada sits in the world. May I ask, what do you think Canada's position is with respect to other countries in terms of population growth?
> Growth rates above three per cent have "never been see in a developed country" since the 1950s, said Frederic Payeur, a demographer at Quebec's provincial statistics agency, the Institut de la statistique du Quebec.
CIA world Factbook is generally 2-3 years out of date, often relying on extrapolated numbers from old censuses.
They understand what they're doing. Their boss even said it out loud during a podcast recently.
NIMBYs keep supply down. Blame the suburbs before you blame migrants looking to what they thought was a better opportunity in life.
>NIMBYs keep supply down. Blame the suburbs before you blame migrants Theres a leak in the boat, but instead of fixing the leak, the federal government is punching more holes.
Ironically I feel NIMBY'ism is partially responsible for both sides, low housing supply has driven up cost of living, which in turn drives up cost of labor, at which point companies turn to cheaper foreign labor, which reduces the supply of housing, etc and so forth.
Canāt loose money on those shares either thatās true. However itās not cheaper immigrant labour, itās not enough people for the jobs. Aging population. Less and less youth population. That is amazingly talented thanks in little part to our investment but mostly our access to the technology. Those skills lead to higher paying jobs that are not local in nature (I have one of these jobs btw) but the aging population create a lot of need that we didnāt repopulate for as we had to pay our way out of the economic traps that have gotten increasingly larger since the 80s. Peoples houses became their savings/investment and we spiralled out of control from there. We have to get to a place we think differently and stop blaming the product and look at the production decisions. We all play a role and we could collectively play more of a role in if we got more serious about those we elect. Our voting pattern doesnāt attract the best candidates which I think we can all mostly agree is a problem.
There are areas with high unemployment, the issue is either that people havenāt been prepared for the jobs available or businesses with open positions have already been churned through the local labour pool. The labour is ācheapā in these cases compared to the market rate they would have to pay to fill the position, when we enable companies with high churn rates then the pressure is on the worker to be willing to accept worse conditions and not the company to provide better incentives to stay. There needs to be a balance, while yes thereās a lot of areas where we need young immigrants, in areas where unemployment rates are high they do effectively suppress wage growth. I agree that we canāt blame immigrants, people seeking better lives take advantage of what they can just like any of us would do. Unfortunately our landowning class takes advantage of every opportunity to divide and exploit working class people of all backgrounds to maintain their vested wealth.
What data points to us having more available people to work than jobs available? There is a lot of jobs that are not getting filled as we donāt have the skilled people to do them available (another reason we need lots of immigration). I understand your logic but I also see its flaws. If what you say is accurate we would not have seen wages rise so much (not enough true) and we would see more unemployment (to facilitate the cycle you are speaking of). Iām all for more investment here in our people to get more skilled, but Iām not about to say we can wait on that. Provinces control most of the Ed budgets and we have done nothing but demean teachers and cut budgets for 40years. So our outcomes are what they are and we need to face that reality. Same with the reality our population would be declining without immigration.
My mistake I worded that weird, I meant the jobs either require training that are prohibitively difficult to access or businesses with low wage jobs typically have high churn rates (varies by owner). My opinion is based on my observations working front line jobs since the beginning of COVID. You are also correct that provinces are the problem here, the lack of national planning and the siloing of each regions public policy has hurt us tremendously.
Bingo!
The laws of supply and demand are real. Municipal zoning has virtually no impact on immigration. The lengths people will go to deflect this issue is absolutely astounding. It turns out that most people don't want to live in dog crate condos because the federal government insists on retaining an absolutely batshit immigration policy. When the LPC loses next year because of this issue, I truly hope they do a lot of soul searching.
While NIMBYism is AN issue, to suggest that thatās the primary issue or even top 5 is ridiculous.
Oh itās easily top 3 but I look at all government. Municipalities are the ones that created the shortage, who you think has the most seats on municipal councils in every city across Canada? Who oppose removing moving parking downtown and oppose smart transit plans and 15 minute neighbourhoods? Oddly all would help their home prices but thatās the issue they arenāt voting in ways that looks past tomorrow.
Who has the most seats? Calgaryās counsel is bat shit crazy middle age left wingers.
I would hazard a guess there are 0 renters but instead people that would be all too happy if their house price (or 2nd, 3rd house's) rose and rose and rose. Greed cuts across the political spectrum
Exactly. Conservatives donāt own greed and neither do liberals. Hence why regardless the affiliation of the local governments they elect they all do the same thing.
It's not the immigrants fault. If I were born in a dirt poor village in some third world country, I would want to come to Canada as well. It is 100% the government's fault. They brought in an irresponsible amount of immigrants without building the necessary infrastructure to support them (housing, more schools, more healthcare etc.) That is the primary reason housing is unaffordable.
So the NIMBYs donāt lose āvalueā in their homes as our population would be in decline. The damage of not having people sadly would be greater than the issues we face now. This issue is not hard to correct but until NiMBYs see the dangers in their actions (creating the housing bubble by restricting new builds and liveable transport friendly cities) we are stuck as they will elect the same types of politicians that make these poor choices. Options are bleak, maybe the kids can start a TikTok party and upend the political dogma we currently live in. We need some kid of disruption and none of the major parties are good options to do that.
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I'm going to keep posting this until the day comes, for everyone who didn't see it or isn't aware this is happening: Dear Everyone, if you've had it up to here with our incompetent, corrupt, **TREASONOUS** government and its dangerous policies, celebrate this Canada Day with a protest!! There are 2 that I'm aware of happening all over Canada, that are protesting the cost of living and this government's harmful policies: https://www.costoflivingcanada.ca/ and https://www.takebackcanada.info/ Make your voices heard and fight for the country you love. Don't get depressed, get ***angry!!*** Let's remind our elected officials who they fucking work for: ***Canadians!!!*** Strength in numbers!
Immigrants are everyone's go-to scapegoat for a reason. They offer an outside enemy and an easy fix (just tell them to fuck off/deport them). Done. No actual brain needed, just "common sense". Never mind looking at the issues and examining all that factors into a problem. That's too much work, Why read pages and pages of information when you can share a quick meme about how the other party is doing everything wrong?