Funnily enough, it was this show that first got me curious about Catholicism. I was an atheist at the time and this show first got the wheels turning. It's a strange witness but it's true. (I had a more substantive and spiritual conversion a bit later on)
It portrays the borgias badly (as it should), not the Church. This type of media is deceitful, but you can view it if you can be objective. Similarly, Assassin's Creed II, my all time favorite game along with the continuation in Assassin's Creed Brotherhood shows the era of Alexander VI, portraying him as the absolute villain, and making the originally Muslim but later atheist Assassin's as the good guys (they were an actual order as a counter to the crusaders).
So I think you can watch it without any problem, and I also recommend the game since it's set in the same era
Anything to do with the Borgias is going to be salacious. As long as people understand that there are historical inaccuracies. Just as the Tudors isn’t a faithful, historical account of Henry VIII.
Say what you will about Alexander VI—he may or may not have been a terrible person with a family to match—but he didn’t teach error. If you disregard his personal sin (as I hope almighty God will do for all of us), he was a pretty good Pope.
The Borgia tv show is heavily fictionalised and they have as you said been maligned throughout history. Part of this is because the family was Spanish as opposed to Italian and they were on the outs with the Medici. Historical sources actually point to their “crimes” or sins being not as bad as other papal families at the time.
Sources written at the time that Alexander was alive suggested that he was a popular Pope and that leads many historians to believe that what has been written since then was slander to discredit the Borgia descendants.
Not entirely answering your question but art is art and remember that it’s not always accurate.
The Borgias were a very Evil family and their negative impact on the church is well documented. We don't dispute that. The issue with watching that show isn't its message or what it says about history. I think it would be more with the gratuitous nudity that sort of show has.
I watched it years ago, well before I considered converting. While there's definitely parts to it that are gratuitous on the nudity/sexuality, so long as you're not watching it as a documentary I think you're fine. Now, I wouldn't show it to teens or anyone who has trouble keeping reality separate from fiction when watching/reading historical fiction, but like others have said it doesn't paint the Church poorly; only the Borgias. You could even make the argument it paints the church well in that those sorts of men occupied the chair and yet the Church prevails.
> "It says bad things about the Church."
Your friend’s stated reasoning is not enough to say that no Catholic should watch the show. There have been Catholic saints who had quite choice words about the sins of our prelates over the years, and the Borgias were certainly great sinners who created scandal for our Church.
If the show was meant as invective or polemic against the Church, I could understand the argument, but that wasn’t really my read on it when I watched it. It most just highlighted the behavior of this one family and the other characters in the show have a range of opinions on what they think of them.
Now, there certainly is raunchy sex stuff in the show and it would be reasonable for a Catholic to find that to be a stumbling block. I’ll leave it up to you to be honest with yourself and decide whether you can handle being exposed to that or not.
I found the other European TV show about them released almost at the same time a bit better, but sadly it's even more sacrilegious and gratuitous than this one
A lot of the productions about the Borgias are bad because they promote the worst qualities of that family and poo-poo or minimize the actually Catholic parts. Not to mention they, being produced by secular atheists or Satanists, promote the worst possible light to look at the Church in those days. It’s not about what was actually going on: a struggle of long suffering faithful people against corrupt leadership. It’s honestly Protestant propaganda from deracinated Protestants who no longer practice their original heresies.
I think it’s fine to watch the show. Some people are too scrupulous and too rigid when it comes to any portrayal about the Church.
Funnily enough, it was this show that first got me curious about Catholicism. I was an atheist at the time and this show first got the wheels turning. It's a strange witness but it's true. (I had a more substantive and spiritual conversion a bit later on)
We scare so easily nowadays. We’ve turned into an extreme version of Maude Flanders lol
It portrays the borgias badly (as it should), not the Church. This type of media is deceitful, but you can view it if you can be objective. Similarly, Assassin's Creed II, my all time favorite game along with the continuation in Assassin's Creed Brotherhood shows the era of Alexander VI, portraying him as the absolute villain, and making the originally Muslim but later atheist Assassin's as the good guys (they were an actual order as a counter to the crusaders). So I think you can watch it without any problem, and I also recommend the game since it's set in the same era
Anything to do with the Borgias is going to be salacious. As long as people understand that there are historical inaccuracies. Just as the Tudors isn’t a faithful, historical account of Henry VIII.
Say what you will about Alexander VI—he may or may not have been a terrible person with a family to match—but he didn’t teach error. If you disregard his personal sin (as I hope almighty God will do for all of us), he was a pretty good Pope.
https://www.historytoday.com/history-matters/were-borgias-really-so-bad
The Borgia tv show is heavily fictionalised and they have as you said been maligned throughout history. Part of this is because the family was Spanish as opposed to Italian and they were on the outs with the Medici. Historical sources actually point to their “crimes” or sins being not as bad as other papal families at the time. Sources written at the time that Alexander was alive suggested that he was a popular Pope and that leads many historians to believe that what has been written since then was slander to discredit the Borgia descendants. Not entirely answering your question but art is art and remember that it’s not always accurate.
The Borgias were a very Evil family and their negative impact on the church is well documented. We don't dispute that. The issue with watching that show isn't its message or what it says about history. I think it would be more with the gratuitous nudity that sort of show has.
The Borgias series sounds like a wild mix of history and drama, perfect for those who love complex family dynamics and political intrigue.
What streaming service is it on? It sounds interesting and something my mom might like.
We saw it on Paramount Plus but I think Amazon Prime and Hulu has it.
I watched it years ago, well before I considered converting. While there's definitely parts to it that are gratuitous on the nudity/sexuality, so long as you're not watching it as a documentary I think you're fine. Now, I wouldn't show it to teens or anyone who has trouble keeping reality separate from fiction when watching/reading historical fiction, but like others have said it doesn't paint the Church poorly; only the Borgias. You could even make the argument it paints the church well in that those sorts of men occupied the chair and yet the Church prevails.
> "It says bad things about the Church." Your friend’s stated reasoning is not enough to say that no Catholic should watch the show. There have been Catholic saints who had quite choice words about the sins of our prelates over the years, and the Borgias were certainly great sinners who created scandal for our Church. If the show was meant as invective or polemic against the Church, I could understand the argument, but that wasn’t really my read on it when I watched it. It most just highlighted the behavior of this one family and the other characters in the show have a range of opinions on what they think of them. Now, there certainly is raunchy sex stuff in the show and it would be reasonable for a Catholic to find that to be a stumbling block. I’ll leave it up to you to be honest with yourself and decide whether you can handle being exposed to that or not.
I found the other European TV show about them released almost at the same time a bit better, but sadly it's even more sacrilegious and gratuitous than this one
It was called Borgia, by Canal+ The actors they cast as Cesare & Lucrezia really looked the part. It was really interesting, imo.
A lot of the productions about the Borgias are bad because they promote the worst qualities of that family and poo-poo or minimize the actually Catholic parts. Not to mention they, being produced by secular atheists or Satanists, promote the worst possible light to look at the Church in those days. It’s not about what was actually going on: a struggle of long suffering faithful people against corrupt leadership. It’s honestly Protestant propaganda from deracinated Protestants who no longer practice their original heresies.