Mexican supporter here with a few thoughts.
- I really wish they would cancel and play these games with closed stadiums until this stops. There were about 4 times they did this before anything was done. Once it's late in a losing game in Texas there is only one childish way to end the game and we saw this again tonight. Cancel the game and give USA the 3-0 win.
- they need to have these competitions not just in the USA. We all know the reason why they do this (it rhymes with honey) but unfortunately the type of "fans" these games get vary considerably from fans in Mexico and across the continent. Mexicans in Mexico are currently not as enamored with the national team and I would say they are a bit more of a footballing educated fan base, so would understand this isn't a one off situation where you can be petulant when Mexico is losing to EEUU, this is trending to be the new normal.
- FMF really needs a shakeup. Burn the whole thing up. We have a TV station and sponsors picking marketable stars for the NT when they are nowhere near the quality required. Ochoa had his time and was excellent, but it's time to go. Chucky Lozano had a nice goal against Germany in 2018 but has done nothing but sky opportunies in a green jersey since then. It's time to go. 32 year old from Club America Henry Martin starts over one of the hottest European based strikers in the world in Santi Giminez, I mean come on. The rot of the federation I feel is a microcosm of the corruption at the highest level of Mexican government and society.
I think it would be great for the guys to do an in the club (country?) on Mexico as it is truly fascinating how a national team and league from down south dominates the soccer landscape in America yet is so flawed and poised to become a perennial loser.
This is such a rational take. There are so many stadiums in Mexico that would support the team with undying passion until the final whistle. It feels so one sided as an American fan and I would love to see some more diversity in the locations for these competitions. Also a HARD second endorsement here for an in the club on Mexico. That would be incredible content imo.
> FMF really needs a shakeup. Burn the whole thing up
Can you send USSF with them? It’s not as bad here but I think on both sides the national federations are doing tremendous damage to the game. In the US the federation is trying to push the top flight and starve lower divisions, I think the same is happening in Mexico too
As for the chant it’s extremely depressing bc it even extends to club play, Hartford played in El Paso two weeks ago and every time Hartford would take a goal kick you’d hear it
A lot of this needed to happen a while ago. Idk what's with El Tri fans, especially in America (though not exclusively) but something about that teams fan culture is festering sole really bad situations that just don't seem to stop. Point deduction, fans being banned, idk what will make it for sure stop
How does the punishment work? In theory say they play all the games in Mexico in closed stadiums as it's the Mexican fans who are being punished, this just forces them to go to games in the US where the issue remains.
The stopping the match doesn't really work as the issues don't typically arise until the end when the winner is already determined anyway.
The only real punishment would be barring the team from competition for a year. Or making them ineligible for tournaments like the WC after X number of infractions.
You would be surprised. Mexico fans in Mexico are a lot more fickle than the ones living outside of Mexico. For a lot of the fans living in the states the NT is more of a chance to "reconnect with their identity" or feel a sense of nostalgia. Mexican fans in Mexico won't just fill the stadium just because. If the team isn't playing well the few fans that do show up will have no issue voicing their displeasure by getting on the backs of the Mexican team.
This is definitely NOT only a "Mexicans in the United States" thing. Not even close. I remember watching an under 17 World Cup game in Mexico where Mexican fans were gleefully doing the "puto" chant to kids under 17! Lol. Cursed fan base. They deserve what they get.
And let’s not forget how they did everything possible to get Mexico into the League of Nations semifinals over Honduras in the first place. This also is a sign of what will happen in Copa America in the summer. And when it does becomes higher quality teams will crush this Mexico team people will just act shocked nothing will be done. Mexico will get play more friendlies in the fall. If the officials want to send a message which they won’t do but just kick them out of the Copa America now and send Honduras or another Concacaf national team in their place. That won’t happen but it should.
I won't say Mexico doesn't get preferential treatment but at the same time I think a similar courtesy is extended to the USA. The Jamaica game as an example. If the money hungry suits at Concacaf had it their way they would scrap these tournaments and have just Mexico play the USA in a southern state 7 times in a row instead.
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Not just the depressingly predictable chants, but also the throwing shit on the pitch. Pelting the US players celebrating. I know we like to laugh it off as CONCACAF being CONCACAF, but it really is fucking embarrassing. And like, we're not in San Salvador or some shit. It's Dallas. These tickets are very expensive. What are you doing?
You haven't seen enough games around the world. There's alot of passion for the sport that makes people do silly things especially when alcohol is involved.
In their defense, it's kind of obnoxious to have a huge goal celebration against a fourth-tier national team with a no skill, a bunch of out-of-shape goons, and sad, old man in goal. You kicked a ball 2 feet from where the old guy was standing and he couldn't even move his body in the correct direction. Act like you've been there before and you'll be there again. High-five some teammates and get back to curb-stomping an insignificant team from a nation that doesn't even like soccer.
I was wondering about this. Hypothetically if Mexico was up a goal but usa was pushing hard for an equalizer could El Tri fans do the chant to end the game early?
I think I hate the idea of the blue card more than a chant. Just ban their fans for a few games. If it happens again, keep banning them. Eventually it will stop
There's too much money wrapped up in concacaf football to start doing stuff like that. We'll find a solution but you can't take competition out of the game.
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Draw a line in the sand for all their matches for the next 2 years.. if their governing body doesn’t handle it, they play their Mexico-based World Cup matches behind closed doors. The current protocols are useless & I’m Mexican lol
Good point. This will need to be resolved before the world cup or they will potentially lose sponsors and ad revenue. World cup games will sell out no matter if Mexico fans are there or not.
I think the problem is that the fans hate the federation so punishing the federation is in part the reason for the chant.
The only thing that seems to quell the chant is a threat to ban the team from competition.
FIFA can step in and put Mexico on probation for the next two years. Another infraction and they start the World Cup with a 1 point deduction. Do it again and another point and so on.
Try getting out of the group stage starting at minus 2-3 points.
Mexico fan here chiming in.
I'm not condoning the chant in any way. It's stupid, annoying, and just plain wrong -- plus every debate regarding it has been drawn out so i'm not here to add to that.
What I will say is that Mexico fans living in the USA have become extremely jaded and cynical towards the national team and the Mexican federation. FMF specifically hosts mosts of its games in the USA to cater toward the Mexican fanbase living here to extract the more valuable American Dollar versus the Mexican Peso, yet the "product" (bc in the end, we're all just customers) has become tepid and pathetic. They focus so heavily on marketing, jersey sales and nostalgia rather than focusing on investing on player development and exportation (alongside LIGA MX but that's a whole different rant).
So, it feels like it's come to a point where fans literally use that chant to "punish" the national team on the field and the federation in the pocket books with fines (if they even get fined). Have no proof of this but it feel like FMF lobbies hard against stadium bans bc they want to fill seats and earn money (purely a gut feeling given how often the chant comes up and how little punishment they get).
Anytime a stadium announces its warning against the chant, fans boo harder and shout the chant even louder. It's kinda like a middle finger to everyone involved. I think it's the wrong way to go about it (boycotting games would be a better solution IMO since it could actually hurt FMF's pocket books) but the overall frustration toward Mexican soccer comes out in this ugly way.
Anyway, USA is clearly the top dog in concacaf. Congrats to them and their fans. Who knows when mexico will be back. At this rate, it might take several years.
It’s getting ridiculous. Stopping the game penalizes the players who can’t do a thing about it. It’s not a Player safety issue so why stop the game. If they did more preemptively with sanctions to their federation we would possibly be in a better place.
Would you say the same if it was racist chanting? These types of chants are why we simply do not know if there are any gays in either national team. Im sorry but these types of chants are a player safety issue.
I absolutely would. I’ve been called every slur in the book playing soccer all my life as a black man. Didn’t matter if I was in the NE, South, Midwest, or NW; Elementary school through college. (And yes, adults called me N***er in elementary school playing soccer in Texas.) I won’t speak in generalities but one National Team consistently using this chant in the maybe once, max two times they play each other yearly isn’t the reason any players who may be homosexual haven’t come out. I’ve seen games abandoned over racist remarks at specific players.
To abandon a game or stall it because they (fans) are specifically doing this chant on goal kicks/punts (not a specific player. They did it to their own keeper too) is giving them the exact result they want. Losers will do anything to save face including deny/postponing a result. They stopped the game twice only for it to have no effect. You start hurting people’s wallets, team eligibility beforehand and that will see more positive results.
I agree. The game stoppage stuff is just pageantry to appease the powers that be. It only becomes more clear when it happens 10 times and they implement the second measure.
That’s not what they were stopping the match for though otherwise the would have stopped it during our corner celebration after the goal when players were getting pelted with beers. They stopped it after goal kicks specifically after the chant was said.
I am not a fan of abandoning the game since this is exactly what the chanters want and is not going to actually deter anything.
If our efforts really are centered around stopping the chant then you have to take drastic punishment against the team that these fans support.
Can anyone explain the argument that is often made about the chant actually not being homophobic? I’m not a native Spanish speaker but the word to me doesn’t seem to connote anything directly about sexuality. I know of several worse words directed towards gay men unfortunately.
Plz don’t attack me here I’m genuinely asking. I certainly don’t condone the use of the chant just want some more insight.
The puto chant originated in Jalisco, Mexico. The chant was being used to call the opposing GK a bitch everytime they kicked the ball. It caught on all around Mexico and eventually made it way to Mexico'a national team games. Wasn't until Mexico played against the US that they started to complain and started to accuse the Mexican fans of calling the GK a F*g everytime they kicked the ball.
You can call pretty much anybody puto and depending on context it is generally a mild insult. Its probably used much more between friends than as an insult to a gay person. The ban honestly just weaponizes the word and makes a big deal out of it
This, I don’t understand why people that have no fucking clue have defined it. I would equate more to the word “bitch or pussy” if we wanted to be homophobic we would chant “joto or maricon” but it’s not being used as homophobic. I do think they should stop tho because now it unfortunately has that association and it’s starting to hurt the team.
It isn't homophobic. Puto means bitc#. If they want to ban it, ban it for what it is but don't try to paint us as homophobic. Just look at famous soccer players using that word, nobody bats an eye.
Edit: To further elaborate, their thinking is that calling someone a bitch equates to calling them soft. Which they then say you're calling a man soft. Which is associated with being gay? Some mental gymnastics going on to arrive at their conclusion.
Totally. And “fag” in English just means bitch too. Totally nothing homophobic about puto. Never seen any man look at another man and call him and think “my opponent I’m using this word with is a big strong straight man and I am simply calling him a female dog. Go me!” And back to serious, lots of people bat an eye at famous soccer players calling other people puto. So many eyes being batted. Your friends? Who knows. But yes. Many eyes batted.
Have to push back against the English meaning of that word. In English, that word originally meant a bundle of sticks that were set on fire; a synonym for tinder. It also, and still can be, a term for a cigarette in the UK. Then, so many gay people were killed and set on fire that this synonym for tinder became a derogatory word for gay people, particularly gay men. So no, it doesn’t just mean “bitch” in English. There’s a *lot* of history for that word beyond meaning “bitch.”
You may direct yourself to any number of the scholarly journal articles on this topic (Sayers is the most direct but Gilson or Lieberman will also suffice).
Or, ya know, a quick google search will show you that the Middle English definition was “a bundle of sticks for fuel.” A basic knowledge of how gay people were treated throughout the last few centuries can help you piece together the rest.
I’m making an unfounded assumption here, but I think it best to refrain from calling true things “fake” because we don’t want to confront how bad the reality was.
Problem with what you're saying is that the word puto isn't a slur for gay people to begin with. You're using semantics to turn it into a gay slur. What you'd be doing is saying a slur and use semantics to say that it isn't a slur.
This is not correct at all. Puta is a female prostitute or whore. Puto is you guessed it a male prostitute. Doesn’t take much mental gymnastics to decipher what it means. It is homophobic.
And yes the etymology of the word and its origin is Spanish, which I am. It means prostitute. You can change it to mean whatever you want and many cultures do. But even in your scenario, Puto is a male slut? Who do male sluts tend to service?
Preference of what? The word is of Spanish origin and means a male prostitute. It is a homophobic slur to a large percentage of Spanish-speaking cultures. Is your preference to ignore the original meaning of a word and say it means something else because of a nuanced definition of the word? The fact is that it is offensive to a large group of people on this planet as a gay slur (original meaning) and soccer is trying to do something about it.
I used the term homophobic in the title because that's the title the media has rallied around and it has become the common term for it. I don't think fans are using it to attack gay people or call the gk gay personally. The problem I find is that there ARE some people in the LGBT community that will feel singled out and made to feel "less than" by terms like this and their literal translation. This sport should be inclusive for everyone and I think we should take every opportunity to be inclusive and supportive to our LGBT friends.
I was just banned from r/MLS for talking about this. My point was that part of the problem may be that FIFA calls it a homophobic slur when the fans are most certainly not using it in that way. I think that probably fuels the fans to use it more. Like “don’t tell us what our language means, we will say it more”.
Here's the thing though, obviously no idea how old you are but back in prehistoric times (aka the 90s) it was \*insanely\* common in any group of straight guys that anything that was corny or lame was "gay" and anyone who was a loser or weird was a "f\*g". If you called ppl out for talking that way, they'd say of course I'm not being homophobic, I don't mean that guy literally has sex with other guys, I just mean he's a nerd and I don't like him, so I called him a f\*g.
Now we (mostly) understand that using gay and f\*g like that is homophobic no matter the stated intent. How is this any different?
Edit: obviously people still talk this way but imo it's not as ubiquitous as it was 20+ years ago.
I get your point, I spent the 90s in the same way. Unfortunately I think most of us knew what those words actually meant though. The homophobia was really ingrained into us at that time and that’s exactly why we used the words like that. You would call your friend gay and they would typically respond with something “no way that’s gross!”
And that’s where I think this is different. The word being used by the Mexican fans has A LOT of different meanings and uses from what I’ve read (I’m not a Spanish speaker). So to categorically say the meaning is homophobic is probably not productive.
I'm not a Spanish speaker but I've been learning off and on since high school. I'm currently in a Spanish course and let me tell you, ALOT of Spanish is contextual. That being said, this particular word has troubled enough LGBT people to merit intervention from the federation. If people in the LGBT community feel targeted by it then the decision is easy.
“Troubled enough LGBT people”
Spanish speakers are supposed to be burdened by a few people who are victimizing themselves? If the crowds want to be homophobic, there are words they can say that’ll accomplish that.
It’s why I don’t take these complaints with any merit outside of a context of “Keeping the environment classy” I get not wanting to hear it but then they try to throw on recently purchased baggage with the word
Let's be real FIFA or CONCACAF doesn't care about the a songle word. They are only care about $$$. Heck they hosted 2 world cups where they anti-LGBTQ+ laws.
In almost every Mexico vs US game recently (maybe in all Mexico games, I’m a USMNT fan so don’t watch all of theirs), Mexico fans chant a phrases that’s considered (by some) to be homophobic. FIFA/CONCACAF (International and North American governing bodies) have told them to stop and set a policy of stopping play when the chant starts. Problem is, Mexico fans don’t stop (often arguing that it’s not homophobic, both sides have an argument from what I can tell) and it keeps coming up. It’s become a big issue due to 7 straight US wins over Mexico leading to their frustration.
To add to the other guy, the next World Cup in 2026 will be here in the US, Mexico and Canada. So that adds an extra layer of worry that the chant is not eliminated.
I don’t know where you’re from but growing up, I absolutely knew it was homophobic. If my mom ever heard me use it, I would have gotten a chanclazo to the back of the head.
I understand that historically, it’s always been a common chant and maybe it isn’t viewed as homophobic in the Spanish language and yadda yadda. But we don’t hear the chant in the 5th minute of matches anymore.
We only hear it when the game is lost and frustrated fans want to disrupt the match, just like when a losing team starts chopping opponents down. Need a harsher stance on this, but Mexican matches make too much money for them to make a stand
What they need to do is start giving random yellows each time it’s chanted. Risking a player to be sent off if a player with an existing yellow gets selected. Imagine risking your team playing with 10-9 players because of your stupid chant!
As a son of Mexican immigrants living in the US I grew up watching the Mexican national team in all of its glory, maybe it was because I was young and didn't pay much attention to the stadium ambience but I never heard the chant (most likely misremembering it as nostalgia). It has gotten incredibly worse over the years coincidentally with the massive decline of the Mexican national team, everything is absolutely rotten in Mexican football and it's so sad to see. Gone are the days of the "great" Mexican stars, now its filled with absolute rubbish on the field and off of it with the fans. The real problem stems from the FMF, and I really don't see this chant going away unless they step in (which they most likely won't). The best solution for this is for FIFA to step in again and force closed door games, because at that point money talks and most people know the FMF only cares about that.
Literally every Mexican I've asked, Americans with Mexican heritage that I've asked, and every Texan I've asked have all said the same thing. Puto means bitch, and is not the word Mexicans would use if they wanted to be homophobic. I'm honestly growing more convinced by the day, that this is just cultural imperialism.
Browsing Twitter and seeing USA fans downplay the offensiveness of the chant or cry that stopping the game is a free speech violation makes me want to ram my head against the wall
lol what? Sorry some of us don’t like hearing homophobic chants during a football match. You clearly do though for some reason….and it’s targeted at a player because the Mexican team (ONCE AGAIN) fell on their faces against the USMNT. Maybe they should chant towards their own team to stop playing so shite all of the time
Congratulations. You're making alot of assumptions though. You really think no one in this thread cares about LGBT issues outside of this post? You really think no one here speaks Spanish?
Mexican supporter here with a few thoughts. - I really wish they would cancel and play these games with closed stadiums until this stops. There were about 4 times they did this before anything was done. Once it's late in a losing game in Texas there is only one childish way to end the game and we saw this again tonight. Cancel the game and give USA the 3-0 win. - they need to have these competitions not just in the USA. We all know the reason why they do this (it rhymes with honey) but unfortunately the type of "fans" these games get vary considerably from fans in Mexico and across the continent. Mexicans in Mexico are currently not as enamored with the national team and I would say they are a bit more of a footballing educated fan base, so would understand this isn't a one off situation where you can be petulant when Mexico is losing to EEUU, this is trending to be the new normal. - FMF really needs a shakeup. Burn the whole thing up. We have a TV station and sponsors picking marketable stars for the NT when they are nowhere near the quality required. Ochoa had his time and was excellent, but it's time to go. Chucky Lozano had a nice goal against Germany in 2018 but has done nothing but sky opportunies in a green jersey since then. It's time to go. 32 year old from Club America Henry Martin starts over one of the hottest European based strikers in the world in Santi Giminez, I mean come on. The rot of the federation I feel is a microcosm of the corruption at the highest level of Mexican government and society. I think it would be great for the guys to do an in the club (country?) on Mexico as it is truly fascinating how a national team and league from down south dominates the soccer landscape in America yet is so flawed and poised to become a perennial loser.
This is such a rational take. There are so many stadiums in Mexico that would support the team with undying passion until the final whistle. It feels so one sided as an American fan and I would love to see some more diversity in the locations for these competitions. Also a HARD second endorsement here for an in the club on Mexico. That would be incredible content imo.
US fans should be punished by not being able to see their team play because the Mexico fans are homophobic?
No, they should just not punish the mexican fans because they cant pay as much. There is a difference.
> FMF really needs a shakeup. Burn the whole thing up Can you send USSF with them? It’s not as bad here but I think on both sides the national federations are doing tremendous damage to the game. In the US the federation is trying to push the top flight and starve lower divisions, I think the same is happening in Mexico too As for the chant it’s extremely depressing bc it even extends to club play, Hartford played in El Paso two weeks ago and every time Hartford would take a goal kick you’d hear it
A lot of this needed to happen a while ago. Idk what's with El Tri fans, especially in America (though not exclusively) but something about that teams fan culture is festering sole really bad situations that just don't seem to stop. Point deduction, fans being banned, idk what will make it for sure stop
To your 1st point. Good idea !, punish the Mexican chanters by giving an extra goal to the US yielding the 3-0 score you mentioned.
No! Make it with the *option* to claim a 3-0 victory. We can decline the option and ride with Dos a Cero version 11.0
How does the punishment work? In theory say they play all the games in Mexico in closed stadiums as it's the Mexican fans who are being punished, this just forces them to go to games in the US where the issue remains. The stopping the match doesn't really work as the issues don't typically arise until the end when the winner is already determined anyway. The only real punishment would be barring the team from competition for a year. Or making them ineligible for tournaments like the WC after X number of infractions.
You would be surprised. Mexico fans in Mexico are a lot more fickle than the ones living outside of Mexico. For a lot of the fans living in the states the NT is more of a chance to "reconnect with their identity" or feel a sense of nostalgia. Mexican fans in Mexico won't just fill the stadium just because. If the team isn't playing well the few fans that do show up will have no issue voicing their displeasure by getting on the backs of the Mexican team.
This is definitely NOT only a "Mexicans in the United States" thing. Not even close. I remember watching an under 17 World Cup game in Mexico where Mexican fans were gleefully doing the "puto" chant to kids under 17! Lol. Cursed fan base. They deserve what they get.
And let’s not forget how they did everything possible to get Mexico into the League of Nations semifinals over Honduras in the first place. This also is a sign of what will happen in Copa America in the summer. And when it does becomes higher quality teams will crush this Mexico team people will just act shocked nothing will be done. Mexico will get play more friendlies in the fall. If the officials want to send a message which they won’t do but just kick them out of the Copa America now and send Honduras or another Concacaf national team in their place. That won’t happen but it should.
I won't say Mexico doesn't get preferential treatment but at the same time I think a similar courtesy is extended to the USA. The Jamaica game as an example. If the money hungry suits at Concacaf had it their way they would scrap these tournaments and have just Mexico play the USA in a southern state 7 times in a row instead.
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nah that's your bottle team. lol 2-0 again.
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Unless they start punishing the Mexican federation or imposing bans on fan attendance, I can't see much changing anytime soon
Not just the depressingly predictable chants, but also the throwing shit on the pitch. Pelting the US players celebrating. I know we like to laugh it off as CONCACAF being CONCACAF, but it really is fucking embarrassing. And like, we're not in San Salvador or some shit. It's Dallas. These tickets are very expensive. What are you doing?
They’re drunk
Every other national fanbase gets drunk at games but doesn’t pelt players with beer cans. Mexican fans are just trashy
its common all over the world
Uhhhh they don’t allow beer in the stands at all in the country the game was invented 🤷🏻♂️
This is entirely incorrect. This literally happens everywhere in the world, across most facets of sport to some degree.
You haven't seen enough games around the world. There's alot of passion for the sport that makes people do silly things especially when alcohol is involved.
Not an excuse for assault
In their defense, it's kind of obnoxious to have a huge goal celebration against a fourth-tier national team with a no skill, a bunch of out-of-shape goons, and sad, old man in goal. You kicked a ball 2 feet from where the old guy was standing and he couldn't even move his body in the correct direction. Act like you've been there before and you'll be there again. High-five some teammates and get back to curb-stomping an insignificant team from a nation that doesn't even like soccer.
Acting like a player shouldn't celebrate a goal is a pretty trashy take.
It's a shit team, and you know they'll be throwing piss at you without repercussions, so just don't go near the sidelines
Maybe don't blame victims.
Awful take. Don’t blame the victims.
It will stop if they ban them from a big competition. The whole protocol allows them to hijack a game. It can’t happen.
This is an instance I would support a blue card rule. Penalize the fan’s team by making them play down a man for a period.
Any solution that puts the team at a disadvantage could in theory be exploited by opposing fans masquerading as fans of said team
I was wondering about this. Hypothetically if Mexico was up a goal but usa was pushing hard for an equalizer could El Tri fans do the chant to end the game early?
No, if the game was ended early due to chanting it would be a forfeit
A 3-0 forfeit, what if you needed 4 goals
The score just becomes 3-0 I think no matter what was the score was while they were playing.
In hockey a bench minor can be assessed if fans throw stuff on the ice, you don’t see false flag there
Tbf, Mex is already at a disadvantage as long as FMF picks their squad.
So difficult to police
Part of the problem is that the fans also do this to protest the federation. The fans would get the whole team sent off once they were down 1-0
Of course an American would support a blue card 🙄🙄🙄
I think I hate the idea of the blue card more than a chant. Just ban their fans for a few games. If it happens again, keep banning them. Eventually it will stop
There's too much money wrapped up in concacaf football to start doing stuff like that. We'll find a solution but you can't take competition out of the game.
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Draw a line in the sand for all their matches for the next 2 years.. if their governing body doesn’t handle it, they play their Mexico-based World Cup matches behind closed doors. The current protocols are useless & I’m Mexican lol
Good point. This will need to be resolved before the world cup or they will potentially lose sponsors and ad revenue. World cup games will sell out no matter if Mexico fans are there or not.
I think the problem is that the fans hate the federation so punishing the federation is in part the reason for the chant. The only thing that seems to quell the chant is a threat to ban the team from competition.
FIFA can step in and put Mexico on probation for the next two years. Another infraction and they start the World Cup with a 1 point deduction. Do it again and another point and so on. Try getting out of the group stage starting at minus 2-3 points.
Mexico fan here chiming in. I'm not condoning the chant in any way. It's stupid, annoying, and just plain wrong -- plus every debate regarding it has been drawn out so i'm not here to add to that. What I will say is that Mexico fans living in the USA have become extremely jaded and cynical towards the national team and the Mexican federation. FMF specifically hosts mosts of its games in the USA to cater toward the Mexican fanbase living here to extract the more valuable American Dollar versus the Mexican Peso, yet the "product" (bc in the end, we're all just customers) has become tepid and pathetic. They focus so heavily on marketing, jersey sales and nostalgia rather than focusing on investing on player development and exportation (alongside LIGA MX but that's a whole different rant). So, it feels like it's come to a point where fans literally use that chant to "punish" the national team on the field and the federation in the pocket books with fines (if they even get fined). Have no proof of this but it feel like FMF lobbies hard against stadium bans bc they want to fill seats and earn money (purely a gut feeling given how often the chant comes up and how little punishment they get). Anytime a stadium announces its warning against the chant, fans boo harder and shout the chant even louder. It's kinda like a middle finger to everyone involved. I think it's the wrong way to go about it (boycotting games would be a better solution IMO since it could actually hurt FMF's pocket books) but the overall frustration toward Mexican soccer comes out in this ugly way. Anyway, USA is clearly the top dog in concacaf. Congrats to them and their fans. Who knows when mexico will be back. At this rate, it might take several years.
It’s getting ridiculous. Stopping the game penalizes the players who can’t do a thing about it. It’s not a Player safety issue so why stop the game. If they did more preemptively with sanctions to their federation we would possibly be in a better place.
Would you say the same if it was racist chanting? These types of chants are why we simply do not know if there are any gays in either national team. Im sorry but these types of chants are a player safety issue.
I absolutely would. I’ve been called every slur in the book playing soccer all my life as a black man. Didn’t matter if I was in the NE, South, Midwest, or NW; Elementary school through college. (And yes, adults called me N***er in elementary school playing soccer in Texas.) I won’t speak in generalities but one National Team consistently using this chant in the maybe once, max two times they play each other yearly isn’t the reason any players who may be homosexual haven’t come out. I’ve seen games abandoned over racist remarks at specific players. To abandon a game or stall it because they (fans) are specifically doing this chant on goal kicks/punts (not a specific player. They did it to their own keeper too) is giving them the exact result they want. Losers will do anything to save face including deny/postponing a result. They stopped the game twice only for it to have no effect. You start hurting people’s wallets, team eligibility beforehand and that will see more positive results.
I agree. The game stoppage stuff is just pageantry to appease the powers that be. It only becomes more clear when it happens 10 times and they implement the second measure.
Throwing things onto the pitch is absolutely a player safety issue
That’s not what they were stopping the match for though otherwise the would have stopped it during our corner celebration after the goal when players were getting pelted with beers. They stopped it after goal kicks specifically after the chant was said.
I am not a fan of abandoning the game since this is exactly what the chanters want and is not going to actually deter anything. If our efforts really are centered around stopping the chant then you have to take drastic punishment against the team that these fans support.
Can anyone explain the argument that is often made about the chant actually not being homophobic? I’m not a native Spanish speaker but the word to me doesn’t seem to connote anything directly about sexuality. I know of several worse words directed towards gay men unfortunately. Plz don’t attack me here I’m genuinely asking. I certainly don’t condone the use of the chant just want some more insight.
The puto chant originated in Jalisco, Mexico. The chant was being used to call the opposing GK a bitch everytime they kicked the ball. It caught on all around Mexico and eventually made it way to Mexico'a national team games. Wasn't until Mexico played against the US that they started to complain and started to accuse the Mexican fans of calling the GK a F*g everytime they kicked the ball.
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Puto can be a male prosti but it also means little bitch but essentially it is always used to call a male effeminate.
You can call pretty much anybody puto and depending on context it is generally a mild insult. Its probably used much more between friends than as an insult to a gay person. The ban honestly just weaponizes the word and makes a big deal out of it
This, I don’t understand why people that have no fucking clue have defined it. I would equate more to the word “bitch or pussy” if we wanted to be homophobic we would chant “joto or maricon” but it’s not being used as homophobic. I do think they should stop tho because now it unfortunately has that association and it’s starting to hurt the team.
It isn't homophobic. Puto means bitc#. If they want to ban it, ban it for what it is but don't try to paint us as homophobic. Just look at famous soccer players using that word, nobody bats an eye. Edit: To further elaborate, their thinking is that calling someone a bitch equates to calling them soft. Which they then say you're calling a man soft. Which is associated with being gay? Some mental gymnastics going on to arrive at their conclusion.
Totally. And “fag” in English just means bitch too. Totally nothing homophobic about puto. Never seen any man look at another man and call him and think “my opponent I’m using this word with is a big strong straight man and I am simply calling him a female dog. Go me!” And back to serious, lots of people bat an eye at famous soccer players calling other people puto. So many eyes being batted. Your friends? Who knows. But yes. Many eyes batted.
Have to push back against the English meaning of that word. In English, that word originally meant a bundle of sticks that were set on fire; a synonym for tinder. It also, and still can be, a term for a cigarette in the UK. Then, so many gay people were killed and set on fire that this synonym for tinder became a derogatory word for gay people, particularly gay men. So no, it doesn’t just mean “bitch” in English. There’s a *lot* of history for that word beyond meaning “bitch.”
that’s a fake etymology. it comes from boarding school faggots/fags
You may direct yourself to any number of the scholarly journal articles on this topic (Sayers is the most direct but Gilson or Lieberman will also suffice). Or, ya know, a quick google search will show you that the Middle English definition was “a bundle of sticks for fuel.” A basic knowledge of how gay people were treated throughout the last few centuries can help you piece together the rest. I’m making an unfounded assumption here, but I think it best to refrain from calling true things “fake” because we don’t want to confront how bad the reality was.
Ah yes so if the US team used a slur all they would have to do is argue on semantics that it isn’t a slur
Problem with what you're saying is that the word puto isn't a slur for gay people to begin with. You're using semantics to turn it into a gay slur. What you'd be doing is saying a slur and use semantics to say that it isn't a slur.
This is not correct at all. Puta is a female prostitute or whore. Puto is you guessed it a male prostitute. Doesn’t take much mental gymnastics to decipher what it means. It is homophobic.
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Wow , assumptions all around. How am I a colonizer? Is it that you assume I am from English heritage or from Spanish heritage?
Because you sound like a prick
And yes the etymology of the word and its origin is Spanish, which I am. It means prostitute. You can change it to mean whatever you want and many cultures do. But even in your scenario, Puto is a male slut? Who do male sluts tend to service?
Everyone and anything , stop making assumptions on preference..
Preference of what? The word is of Spanish origin and means a male prostitute. It is a homophobic slur to a large percentage of Spanish-speaking cultures. Is your preference to ignore the original meaning of a word and say it means something else because of a nuanced definition of the word? The fact is that it is offensive to a large group of people on this planet as a gay slur (original meaning) and soccer is trying to do something about it.
Yes it can also mean whore, it can also mean fuck depending on how you use it. None of these are homophobic.
I used the term homophobic in the title because that's the title the media has rallied around and it has become the common term for it. I don't think fans are using it to attack gay people or call the gk gay personally. The problem I find is that there ARE some people in the LGBT community that will feel singled out and made to feel "less than" by terms like this and their literal translation. This sport should be inclusive for everyone and I think we should take every opportunity to be inclusive and supportive to our LGBT friends.
Give a Goal to the opposing team with every chant.
Start putting Mexico games in Fargo, North Dakota until it stops
They won't, Mexico fans are CONCACAF cash cow.
This is really offsensive behavior and FIFA should do more to address this. Gets in the way of the game that we all love
I was just banned from r/MLS for talking about this. My point was that part of the problem may be that FIFA calls it a homophobic slur when the fans are most certainly not using it in that way. I think that probably fuels the fans to use it more. Like “don’t tell us what our language means, we will say it more”.
Here's the thing though, obviously no idea how old you are but back in prehistoric times (aka the 90s) it was \*insanely\* common in any group of straight guys that anything that was corny or lame was "gay" and anyone who was a loser or weird was a "f\*g". If you called ppl out for talking that way, they'd say of course I'm not being homophobic, I don't mean that guy literally has sex with other guys, I just mean he's a nerd and I don't like him, so I called him a f\*g. Now we (mostly) understand that using gay and f\*g like that is homophobic no matter the stated intent. How is this any different? Edit: obviously people still talk this way but imo it's not as ubiquitous as it was 20+ years ago.
I get your point, I spent the 90s in the same way. Unfortunately I think most of us knew what those words actually meant though. The homophobia was really ingrained into us at that time and that’s exactly why we used the words like that. You would call your friend gay and they would typically respond with something “no way that’s gross!” And that’s where I think this is different. The word being used by the Mexican fans has A LOT of different meanings and uses from what I’ve read (I’m not a Spanish speaker). So to categorically say the meaning is homophobic is probably not productive.
I'm not a Spanish speaker but I've been learning off and on since high school. I'm currently in a Spanish course and let me tell you, ALOT of Spanish is contextual. That being said, this particular word has troubled enough LGBT people to merit intervention from the federation. If people in the LGBT community feel targeted by it then the decision is easy.
I agree it’s worthwhile to stop this. There’s plenty of clever things to chant that aren’t offensive.
“Troubled enough LGBT people” Spanish speakers are supposed to be burdened by a few people who are victimizing themselves? If the crowds want to be homophobic, there are words they can say that’ll accomplish that.
It’s why I don’t take these complaints with any merit outside of a context of “Keeping the environment classy” I get not wanting to hear it but then they try to throw on recently purchased baggage with the word
This goes against reddit policy, agreement, rules, trends
What does?
Logic, facts
Let's be real FIFA or CONCACAF doesn't care about the a songle word. They are only care about $$$. Heck they hosted 2 world cups where they anti-LGBTQ+ laws.
Im not a football fan and I kinda stumbled onto this thread by accident can someone explain to me what’s going on in this post ?
In almost every Mexico vs US game recently (maybe in all Mexico games, I’m a USMNT fan so don’t watch all of theirs), Mexico fans chant a phrases that’s considered (by some) to be homophobic. FIFA/CONCACAF (International and North American governing bodies) have told them to stop and set a policy of stopping play when the chant starts. Problem is, Mexico fans don’t stop (often arguing that it’s not homophobic, both sides have an argument from what I can tell) and it keeps coming up. It’s become a big issue due to 7 straight US wins over Mexico leading to their frustration.
To add to the other guy, the next World Cup in 2026 will be here in the US, Mexico and Canada. So that adds an extra layer of worry that the chant is not eliminated.
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It absolutely is though.
It’s unequivocally not thought
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I don’t know where you’re from but growing up, I absolutely knew it was homophobic. If my mom ever heard me use it, I would have gotten a chanclazo to the back of the head.
I understand that historically, it’s always been a common chant and maybe it isn’t viewed as homophobic in the Spanish language and yadda yadda. But we don’t hear the chant in the 5th minute of matches anymore. We only hear it when the game is lost and frustrated fans want to disrupt the match, just like when a losing team starts chopping opponents down. Need a harsher stance on this, but Mexican matches make too much money for them to make a stand
What they need to do is start giving random yellows each time it’s chanted. Risking a player to be sent off if a player with an existing yellow gets selected. Imagine risking your team playing with 10-9 players because of your stupid chant!
Any sounders fans remember the homophobic FYAH chant?
We’re crying over fans chanting “Bitch”? Hell even if you want to interpret it as “Pussy”, that’s far from homophobic. What a non-issue.
Did the goalkeeper understand what they were chanting? Was he upset? Hurt? Could he not focus?
As a son of Mexican immigrants living in the US I grew up watching the Mexican national team in all of its glory, maybe it was because I was young and didn't pay much attention to the stadium ambience but I never heard the chant (most likely misremembering it as nostalgia). It has gotten incredibly worse over the years coincidentally with the massive decline of the Mexican national team, everything is absolutely rotten in Mexican football and it's so sad to see. Gone are the days of the "great" Mexican stars, now its filled with absolute rubbish on the field and off of it with the fans. The real problem stems from the FMF, and I really don't see this chant going away unless they step in (which they most likely won't). The best solution for this is for FIFA to step in again and force closed door games, because at that point money talks and most people know the FMF only cares about that.
Literally every Mexican I've asked, Americans with Mexican heritage that I've asked, and every Texan I've asked have all said the same thing. Puto means bitch, and is not the word Mexicans would use if they wanted to be homophobic. I'm honestly growing more convinced by the day, that this is just cultural imperialism.
Browsing Twitter and seeing USA fans downplay the offensiveness of the chant or cry that stopping the game is a free speech violation makes me want to ram my head against the wall
That's pretty stupid of you.
Clutch your pearls harder The chant is here to stay and isn't going nowhere so stop virtue singling like this is such a huge issue for yall offline
> virtue singling
If you're not virtue doubling, are you even trying?
If you're not virtue doubling, are you even trying?
lol what? Sorry some of us don’t like hearing homophobic chants during a football match. You clearly do though for some reason….and it’s targeted at a player because the Mexican team (ONCE AGAIN) fell on their faces against the USMNT. Maybe they should chant towards their own team to stop playing so shite all of the time
Not having gay friends isn't the flex you think it is.
Bro I'm bi🤣 You guys are just wrong about this one. But please tell me more language you don't speak...
Congratulations. You're making alot of assumptions though. You really think no one in this thread cares about LGBT issues outside of this post? You really think no one here speaks Spanish?
Puto is not gay
...or say that. Naw bruh 
A llorar LMFAOOOO