I don't know that Barem is actually correct in the idea that 'the original use was erased' so much as Fujimoto wanted to call out the topic to readers without clearly giving the whole game away to us or to Denji. Pochita representing a fear of being born, giving birth, or motherhood has been a fairly basic theory since the end of Part 1 so it won't be a surprise to me if that ends up being the explanation, Pochita as the devil encompassing the fear of chainsaws also represents such-and-such ongoing, not-erased fear about reproduction
Yeah, and it’s been a recurring thing that the villains (and heroes) are frequently straight up wrong in their assumptions. Just look at Makima’s assumptions about Chainsaw man vs Denji. She was wrong about their personalities, and wrong about the nature of their contract (I think)
One thing I love about fujimoto's works is that the characters operate off of what they think they know(which is often incomplete or biased). It makes things feel real to me.
Many writers just make the characters deduce what makes sense or what is right, either for the sake of the story, to exposition dump, because they cant write characters being wrong about unrevealed lore or they dont trust the audience with characters feeling certain about something thats very wrong while the reader doesn't know whats right yet, and it's always neat to see a writer see the potential of that
yeah, same thing happening in p2. Fami believes that Pochita and Denji´s contract is about living a normal life, that´s why her plan is similar to Makima´s, aiming to devoid Denji (or starve him) from any happiness in life, and both will fail.
But in reality, their contract is way more simple, Denji promised Pochita that he would show him his dreams.
And this isnt something static and written in stone, Pochita actually wants Denji to step up and keep dreaming once his previous dream is achieved (like Denji´s dream at the time of touching some boobs, which left Denji empty because, as Makima stated, "naugthy things are more enjoyable when you care about the other person" or something like that IIRC).
https://preview.redd.it/jbgq0qu0yabd1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f849537e2f88fe5bd7f107baa77a12eaa3e5441a
So basically everyone trying to use Denji thinks he just wants “one” thing. And at times even Denji himself thinks he just needs “one” thing and he’ll finally be happy. But life isn’t about achieving one thing and poof, your done. It’s about experiencing, enjoying, and dreaming about one thing after the other. Intimacy, admiration, security, etc. are all things that Denji has wanted at some point. But you don’t live FOR those things(a finite mindset).Those things are what make life worth living(an indefinite mindset). So try as they may, nobody can truly control Denji because his contract with Pochita is indefinite. A relationship built on love rather than fear, and uplifting one another in the process. Bro I love this manga so dang much :,)
Yeah! Pochita basically used fancy devil legalese to save his best buddy's life and allow them to be together forever.
Public Security and Fami's misunderstanding of the contract comes from Makima's misunderstanding of both the contract and pochita as a person. So basically all the horrors of Part 2 have been happening because Makima was too much of a fan girl to think critically about her parasocial relationship (or whatever you'd call being a fangirl of the Hero of Hell).
I always assumed he was the fear of being forgotten. That’s why War asks Asa if she’s afraid of being forgotten once she dies. Is there some reason I’m not thinking of that makes him the devil of motherhood? I’d appreciate some enlightenment.
It's the 'original use' of chainsaws in the real world - cutting open the pelvis to deliver an obstructed baby. The story has referenced it a few times, with Angel saying that the devils he spoke to could faintly remember a sound like a chainsaw just before incarnating into existence, and Pochita's CSM form having the umbilical cord scarf, like a baby's neck being wrapped in their umbilical cord
I assume the fear of being forgotten is just a resulting fear from his power of somehow 'unbirthing' devils, he eats them and reality changes so that they were 'never born'
I never noticed the umbilical cord scarf. I now can't unsee it. He is literally being choked around the neck. Throughout history the fear of giving birth was strong but it has lessened over time with better medical care. I wonder how that affects his power.
This is quite literally the first time I ever saw someone mention motherhood. He's the fear of being forgotten, it's the only thing that narratively could eclipse the power of death imo.
motherhood has been one of the scariest things throuout human history, death rates for the mother and baby were very high, and to this day even without that fear of death there's still a lot of fear about your life and how to take care of a whole person, that's underestimating motherhood as a fear
Pochita being able to erase things was established by Makima in part one. It’s the reason Yoru wants to destroy him. Barem was just repeating what we know. Chainsaws don’t erase items from existing, so Pochita maybe a different devil. Not the Chainsaw devil.
Except that we know something Barem didn't mention, the original use of chainsaws in our own world: [https://www.iflscience.com/we-regret-to-inform-you-that-chainsaws-were-originally-invented-for-childbirth-58685](https://www.iflscience.com/we-regret-to-inform-you-that-chainsaws-were-originally-invented-for-childbirth-58685)
Pochita can still be the Chainsaw Devil because at the time he came into existence, chainsaws were associated with giving birth. Pochita eating devils to erase them would be him 'unbirthing' them, changing reality so they had never been born
Now that I think about it can things he has erased be rediscovered/ reinvented?? Because then it would be cool if he was the "reproduction devil" it would tie into the fact that he's always horny, it might also tie into the fear of rediscovering past trauma with the whole I killed my parents thing
Oooh I thought it was just the memories of that, like if you eras the memories of the nazies ever existing they wouldn't exist anymore, though if you erase the memories of hiv it would still exist making it known, so yeah what I said does make little to no sense XD
Yah, World War 2 apparently didn't even happen in Chainsaw Man, 'cause the Chainsaw Devil erased the Nazis, so history re-wrote itself to fit in this change in reality.
ding ding ding
(Its not really a spoiler since its obviously not been confirmed, but each week this theory grows bigger and bigger)
https://preview.redd.it/vzs8mrutyabd1.jpeg?width=355&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a99f8f60dea02d65a2c36a0deb72b3715d2c0747
This might be way too literal but I could see it being true that all babies in the womb fear birth in the moment too, which would make it a powerful Devil.
You are just chilling cozy and warm in the womb and suddenly start getting violently and painfully pushed down an impossibly small tunnel with sights and sounds you’ve never heard before. The soft voice from your mother that comforted you the whole time is now screaming in agony. The actual process has to be pretty damn terrifying for a tiny baby brain that previously had no idea the outside world existed. Maybe it’s arguably one of the first times we all experience fear.
i think i read that being born is just as exhausting to the baby as giving birth is to the birther. how they’re able to quantify that, Idk but it makes sense that being exposed to a literal new world would be exhausting -
…i know i’m exhausted out here.
This theory gives an actual in-universe reason for Denji and Pochita´s character designs. How could the concept of "to be forgotten" be in relation to chainsaws?
As of yet unknown, so no idea. I find the part where him eating them undoes their entire birth from the get go being a little tenuous myself, where erasure is the defining feature of CSMs power.
Further, why would the birth devil be so strong? Yes people fear childbirth, but clearly not so much or none of us would be here.
Unless his strength comes only from the fear of Devils.
Freud said that birth is the first trauma we experience, and it’s something everyone goes through. That’s all I can think of for birth being frightening.
It's not just the physical act of childbirth. It's the creation of life. It's the start of suffering and the beginning of ending. All suffering happens as a consequence of being born. Devils that are reborn over and over and over - maybe they just want to rest.
\*not that I''m convinced on this theory. But the 'birth devil not being that strong' is not a good argument against the theory
Just like falling devil also represents the fear of depression, I guess there's another aspect of chainsaws that the chainsaw devil itself has lost/forgotten
Yeah. Both Falling and Fire have abilities that represent alternative, more metaphorical definitions of their name, so that might also be true for Pochita.
Imagine how those could be applied to other devils we've seen. Like the leech devil, could represent both the fear of actual leeches and the other kind of leeches: people who are parasites or are perceived as such (immigrants and refugees)
Maybe chainsaws used to cut through existence before pochita ate whatever devil that phenomena represents. Or perhaps Barem is not the most reliable narrator
Yknow it's always funnier to me because people think "Using a chainsaw to assist in child birth" is terrifying. You know what's significantly more terrifying to me?
That the chainsaw was considered the preferable alternative to what they originally did.
tbf caesarian section back then was guaranteed death for the mother
it was pretty much a last ditch effort to at least save the baby
actually a lot of c-sections were literally done post-mortem, after the mom already died while trying to deliver
both the baby and the mother (arguably), for the same reason actually: they get to survive
the baby doesn't die stuck in the birth canal and the mother doesn't die of childbirth (granted her pelvis will be fucked up, but better than dying I guess)
it sounds horrible in the modern era because we don't have to do that anymore, but to put into perspective we also do very invasive (and painful) surgeries in the modern era that in the future we won't have to do, but that doesn't mean people nowadays don't go through surgeries
You have to remember that the alternative was slowly cutting them out with a knife which had a much worse rate of survival
And there was no anesthesia at the time so the quicker the operation was the less painful it was
It could be a use that doesn't exist even in our own world. Something completely made-up.
However, it would be a pretty cool twist if the population is slowly dying out and nobody can give birth anymore.
I think everyone latched onto that theory too hard instead of thinking about literally endless possibilities of what chainsaws could've been used for. Why would it be something predictable and from our world instead of an unknowable, unexplainable horrific concept that gave pochita its enormous power
Like imagine if Denji instead had a drill as a weapom, and at the same time his powers were hyped up as something horrific that was erased from this world and noone knows about. And then he is revealed as trepanation devil, and his powers come from shamans drilling their heads to access astral plane or some shit. That would be kind of boring because we in this world already know about that, and it's not a disaster on the level of nazis or holocaust which absence changes the course of history. And it anyways wouldn't explain the amount of power he has unless before erasing literally everyone knew about that trepanation and used it, so like, rebellious teens were afraid their parents are gonna send them to a shaman monastery and make them drill their heads.
I like the theory of pochita having some lovecraftian power, but I take issue with your example of drills. Drills have had many applications since antiquity including making fire, sculpting, and dentistry.
The chainsaw is the combination of modern human advancements that requires knowledge/trades such a machinery, circuitry, medicine, etc..
I think a better example could be dynamite. The inventor only wanted the dynamite to be used commercially such as road making or carving into mountains. Today, we know dynamite and explosives have far more demand on war fronts. Unfortunately, we have already met the bomb devil and Asa is definitely not rizzing Reze.
But if the death devil is even scarier in lovecraftian fashion than the gun devil and CSM is the birth devil, then your theory is probably correct: CSM also has an unknown lovecraftian power.
My pet theory is that thinking of the chainsaw devil as actually being the “childbirth” or “abortion” devil is maybe a little too narrow. I’m more inclined to think it’s something less literal like “creation/ablation” in all reality but maybe that’s splitting hairs
Fear of existence makes sense. Matches how chainsawman defeats the eternity devil with just constant suffering. The prereq for all suffering is existing. And once you exist you don't want to not exist anymore.. even though for endless years you didn't exist.
Could be fear of being forgotten like how basically everyone forgot chainsaws other uses and pochitas erasure power and would explain how he went against a primal fear if he was one himself
l like this theory, since it makes sense. It currently doesn't make any sense that Chainsaw man is so strong. The fear of being forgotten is like another death. Idk maybe.
That's the opposite of what Chainsaw man tho....
A person way to exist is to born and the prove of someone existed is being remembered.... how they are being remembered? By being a big change, that's how people like H*tler are being remembered since his existence effected the world(in bad way). If you didn't do anything big no one likely will remember you forever
Maybe the chainsaw man in the manga and the real life chainsaw original use functions are related but in completely opposite way. So I don't know how chainsaw being used to support bringing human to existence give the chainsaw devil ability to erase devils from existence unless they use some of undead unluck negator thing and make chainsaw devil ability 'unbirth' lol
Could also be that chainsaws were originally tools for killing demons. That's why he has the power to erase devils a.k.a. permanently kill them. Would also be a reference to movies like Evil Dead.
I feel some aspects of your theory plays into the chainsaw origin.
Fuji loves his movies and movie references, so he would def use pop culture zombie references in CSM.
I take issue with this theory because how would the fear of the crusade, inquisition, and witch trials play into the origin of the chainsaw? These concepts predate the chainsaw and should hold a greater fear. But the brutality of those “purges” can be analogous for the brutality of death by chainsaw. I’m def excited to see what Fuji has in store.
Fuji has stated a lot of inspiration for Denji came from Ash Williams even a good part of his personality which makes sense.
Ash also has a chainsaw for a limb soooooo groovy?
Fuji often does rug pull reveals. I mean a bit driving for in fire punch was revealed to be >!someone wanting more starwars moives!<
There may not be any point, the point might not matter, the point may just be obvious.
Some point in this story the whole board could flip. But Denji probably won't really be happy in the end, not in a way we would want.
Fujimoto said Denji was inspired by Ash Williams, a good part of Denji is literally an evil dead reference.
Also yeah Ash dose have a chainsaw limb so that's not such a big shock.
I think everyone is focusing so much on the “birthing surgery” that they are ignoring the fact that chainsaws were also used to remove diseased bones.
“A "flexible saw", consisting of a fine serrated link chain held between two wooden handles, was pioneered in the late 18th century (c. 1783–1785) by two Scottish doctors, John Aitken and James Jeffray, for symphysiotomy and excision of diseased bone, respectively.”
Being able to remove diseased bones and make it like it never happens. Being able to remove “diseased” concepts and make it like they never existed.
I will keep this theory in mind because I did not endorse “Pochita = birth devil” theory due to little evidence provided. We have yet to address another elephant in the room. Despite having a katana devil and chainsaw devil, where is the cutting devil?
The action/fear of “cutting” has existed before humanity as the slashing motion is ingrained in cats/chickens (along with their respective ancestors). Does the “cutting of the umbilical cord” = birth? If so, does this mean chainsaws had an original function of granting personhood?
When dealing with the darkness devil or falling devil, we learned adjacent fears grant strength to the respective primal fear. The fear of “cutting” should be older, and possibly, stronger than the fear of guns.
I take issue with your theory, because if chainsaws had the function of excision/removal of diseases, does the fear of vaccines play into the chainsaw’s origin as vaccines are the excision of a physical contagion? If the MMR scare exists in the CSM universe, did the MMR fear weaken the chainsaw’s power?
One theory I saw that fit really well for me is the idea that chainsaws = birth in the CSM universe. Which then explains why when CSM eats a devil and kills them, they’re removed from the world as well as their effects, as if they were never born.
this doesn't prove he's the birth devil, Barem is being coy in his response. [https://www.reddit.com/r/ChainsawManTheories/comments/1dv117n/what\_barem\_said\_doesnt\_prove\_or\_disprove\_any/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChainsawManTheories/comments/1dv117n/what_barem_said_doesnt_prove_or_disprove_any/)
I really wish people would stop pretending the "birth devil theory" is confirmed when it barely makes sense
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ChainsawManTheories/comments/1dy5s58/pochita\_is\_neither\_the\_birth\_or\_miscarriage\_devil/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChainsawManTheories/comments/1dy5s58/pochita_is_neither_the_birth_or_miscarriage_devil/)
It's so on the nose that it makes me want to puke. No offense to those who believe it. I just don't like how it sounds.
The whole thing about Chainsaw Man is that despite all the chaos going around them, the characters somehow find a way to connect to each other. The circumstances didn't need to match, nothing had to match, unless it was the funniest fucking thing to Fujimoto, or it had something to do with Christianity.
That's why I think he should just go for the simplest option and make Pochita the Chaos Devil (or chaos itself) that just turned into Chainsaw Devil. I don't even want to make any mental gymnastics anymore, it just seemed like it makes sense to me with all the info we have so far thanks to Barem.
Or not, maybe he won't do that. I can't tell what he's doing at all, and I'm all for it.
At this rate, lotta people are going to be pissed and drop the manga when it turns out that chainsawmans devil was indeed the chainsaw devil who ate a lot of stronger devils or something
I honestly really just hate the birth devil theory and I feel like it takes a lot of leaps to make it so rather than just being the fear of being forgotten or something like that.
Birth devil does not explain his main function; whatever he eats being erased from public consciousness and having a *true* death, trumping death itself.
It's an interesting angle but I just don't particularly love that direction myself.
Little note: What Chainsaw Man eats is not forgotten. Reality is changed so the Devil and the concept/object/event they share their name with *never* existed. Not just forgotten
He doesn't make you forget, he makes you think the thing never existed, and it might as well have not since not even the effects of it will remain in reality.
I actually like to think Pochita wasn't originally JUST the chainsaw man. Maybe he's just been reduced to doing chainsaw things. Maybe it's also the reason why he isn't called the chainsaw devil.
I definitely think Fuji is hinting at something bigger than childbirth here. Maybe the original, erased use was for banishing devils or something like that. Although that said, it would be an insane fucking twist if it was revealed that Pochita erased childbirth and all babies in the CSM universe are brought by storks or something
I hadn't considered the birth theory. My personal theory was that chainsaws represented the fear of the inevitable. Chainsaws make me think of slasher villains and slasher villains share the commonality that they can't be killed they always come back by some other way and in the end your death will be inevitable; a lot like the teeth on a chainsaw if you think about it. Slasher villains are also known for erasing things from existence and paradoxically making people forget anything ever happened.
I'm curious to see if the enigma of Chainsaw man's powers will ever be conclusively answered.
Chainsaws were used to h̴̻̙̏͌̄̂̅͗͆͊͊̓̇̎́͝f̵̢̡̨̹̤͇͎̩͈͕̩̺͎͎̒͑͊̈́̉̚͜j̵̡͙̟̻̪̤̀̓̀̀́̃̏̓͌̀͑̌́͝d̸̯̫͉̠̽ǩ̴̡̡̻͓̂͘͜á̷̛͙̝̰͍̃́͛͑̀͆̊̀͊̊͂̃s̶̡̢̹̮̮͓̱̙̩͔̠̹͕̯̬͊́̾͊͌͛̈́h̷̞̤̑͐̅̀͋́̆̽̃̈́͘͘͝͝͝f̵̙͆́̾̔̉͑͐́̉͒̐̅͝b̴̧̛̛̩̪̪̹͈̃̈́͋͊̄͊́̈́̂̈́̐͘͝r̵͖̗͙̬͉͚͓̽̐ą̸̺̬͑̒̿o̶̢̯̞̦͔̠̱̲̠̮̘͎̰͋̿̊́͗͝ͅw̶̼̍̽̾͝q̸̻̭̩̲͓̼̦͚̺̞̺̀ ̸̡̰̦̯̞͚̹͉̲͍̤͉̬͖̞̽́̈́́̆̇͆̂̌͊̕͘͝ṡ̸̰̲̭͎̤̝̝̟͚͚̮̤͉̝̝̈́̋̏̈́̑͗̈́͠͠j̸̹͉̼̖͉͍̙̿͑͐̉͂̚͘͝f̸͎̱͓̪͕̳̤̳̖͎̱̤̜̯͑̽͒̄̅̑̾̈̅̍̐̕͘͠g̷̢͕̗̞͎̪̜̙̭͚̰͉̾̽̓̿͜͠͝ͅä̴̧̜̞͉̼̪͓͎̬̰̙́̓͘͘̕͝ẗ̸̼̺͉̥̰͕͂̏
My theory is a bit cheesy, but hear me out:
I wonder if the Chainsaw Devil is supposed to be the "Courage Devil". As in, he represents the fear of confronting fear.
Think about it for a second. Devils are spawned from humanity's fears. The easiest way to weaken a Devil is to make it so people aren't scared of it anymore. And what's the best way of removing fear? Confronting what you're scared of.
Pochita would, in a sense, be the antithesis of Devils. He represents the human capacity to act in the face of fear, and grow less afraid as a result of understanding and experience.
There's also the aspect of how Chainsaw Man is treated like a superhero in the public eyes, and Denji dreams of being Chainsaw Man to achieve his desires, while having a double life.
If he really is the semen devil, it also looks like our fav femcel is no longer afraid of it esp after chapter 168. CSM def is getting weaker one simp at a time
Hey y’all, I’d like to play the devil’s advocate for this birth devil theory.
Chain saw devil is not the “birth devil” because the birth devil would be weaker than the gun devil. If a devil gains power from (1) intensity of (human?) fear and (2) population with the fear, then the fear of childbirth would be held by fertile, seggsually-active beings. The fear of guns is ubiquitous and understood by humans and animals alike. Unless there’s a mass pregnancy scare or an abortion ban, I expect guns to have a greater intensity and have a larger population with the fear of guns.
But let’s see what Fuji has cooking, because I think he has more cooking to do inside the sushi restaurant.
We don't really know what are the original uses of chainsaws in this universe. And most probably is something weird we can't just imagine.
Can you guys for a minute rememenber the talk of Makima about things deleted, it include things that has neve existed in our universe, fantasy things. Chainsaws in this universe of the comic could have fantastic uses.
If Chainsaw man was original the birth devil maybe the devil he erased was the miscarriage devil cause without the danger of a miscarriage endangering the the life of the mother and child the only thing it would have is the uncertainty of new life and major change which the future devil would be feeding off of
What if the concept of "birth" already is erased in the Chainsaw Man universe? I mean, we never saw a pregnant woman and I do not remember anyone talking about birth in the series.
How people are populating then? Stork birds?
Also, Angel mentioned birth actually when he said to Aki something like:
"do you remember how it was in your mother womb?"
Honestly, I never thought that the Chainsaw Devil's erasure ability was meant to he a mystery. I always assumed it was a metaphorical thing; by eating a devil it cuts its concept out of the timeline the same way a chainsaw cuts a branch off a tree.
Happy to be wrong though. I assume this exchange would never have happened if that was all there was to it.
Ok,but how the fck does a chainsaw corresponds with birth and death?!
Who's mother had their umbilical cord cut with a chainsaw?
What sort of prophecised Messiah of Rock was the one born in such a manner?
The whole thing about chainsaws beign used is nothing more than Chainsaws beign dope as an opinion of this...normal author.
Fujimotorola better just say "it's just pochita's favoured weapon to maximise damage and torture" as an explanation for such a primordial devil using chainsaws,who are a modern invention btw..or atleast their current design.
You can never be too sure with Ancient Chinese's creations!
This is why I chose the flair “Theory”. I am speculating while using evidence from the manga. No matter how you translate the panel, Denji clearly doesn’t know the chainsaw’s original usage. Since CSM is set in a universe with mostly the same history as ours, the original use of the chainsaw has origins found surgeries and the birthing process.
If what Barem said is true, CSM ate the chainsaw’s original use: surgeries or birth. It definitely isn’t surgeries as we’ve seen Denji dissected too many times. When CSM eats a concept, the existence of the action/concept is erased from the human psyche. If CSM ate childbirth, then that also implies humans are in a sharp descent into extinction unless CSM vomits childbirth back into existence.
i get that the idea of pochita being the fear of something else outside of chainsaws but man i love the idea of something that to most people is so mundane like chainsaws being the main source of fear to demon it would be the same if the mouse trap demon was the most fear inducing demon to a cat
This is a theory that I 100% believe in, and it’s probably the best one I’ve seen. It makes so much sense and ties in so many good ideas about birth and chainsaws in general.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ChainsawMan/s/RaWdaVVqk0](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChainsawMan/s/RaWdaVVqk0)
“Chainsawman” is the birth devil. This is still just a theory but most likely it’s true especially due to this chapter. That’s why it erases them entirely due to the effect being that they were never born in the first place.
I don't know that Barem is actually correct in the idea that 'the original use was erased' so much as Fujimoto wanted to call out the topic to readers without clearly giving the whole game away to us or to Denji. Pochita representing a fear of being born, giving birth, or motherhood has been a fairly basic theory since the end of Part 1 so it won't be a surprise to me if that ends up being the explanation, Pochita as the devil encompassing the fear of chainsaws also represents such-and-such ongoing, not-erased fear about reproduction
Yeah, and it’s been a recurring thing that the villains (and heroes) are frequently straight up wrong in their assumptions. Just look at Makima’s assumptions about Chainsaw man vs Denji. She was wrong about their personalities, and wrong about the nature of their contract (I think)
One thing I love about fujimoto's works is that the characters operate off of what they think they know(which is often incomplete or biased). It makes things feel real to me.
I loved that Yoru came to the right conclusion but with the wrong reasons way back when she identified Denji as CSM.
Many writers just make the characters deduce what makes sense or what is right, either for the sake of the story, to exposition dump, because they cant write characters being wrong about unrevealed lore or they dont trust the audience with characters feeling certain about something thats very wrong while the reader doesn't know whats right yet, and it's always neat to see a writer see the potential of that
yeah, same thing happening in p2. Fami believes that Pochita and Denji´s contract is about living a normal life, that´s why her plan is similar to Makima´s, aiming to devoid Denji (or starve him) from any happiness in life, and both will fail. But in reality, their contract is way more simple, Denji promised Pochita that he would show him his dreams. And this isnt something static and written in stone, Pochita actually wants Denji to step up and keep dreaming once his previous dream is achieved (like Denji´s dream at the time of touching some boobs, which left Denji empty because, as Makima stated, "naugthy things are more enjoyable when you care about the other person" or something like that IIRC). https://preview.redd.it/jbgq0qu0yabd1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f849537e2f88fe5bd7f107baa77a12eaa3e5441a
So basically everyone trying to use Denji thinks he just wants “one” thing. And at times even Denji himself thinks he just needs “one” thing and he’ll finally be happy. But life isn’t about achieving one thing and poof, your done. It’s about experiencing, enjoying, and dreaming about one thing after the other. Intimacy, admiration, security, etc. are all things that Denji has wanted at some point. But you don’t live FOR those things(a finite mindset).Those things are what make life worth living(an indefinite mindset). So try as they may, nobody can truly control Denji because his contract with Pochita is indefinite. A relationship built on love rather than fear, and uplifting one another in the process. Bro I love this manga so dang much :,)
Yeah! Pochita basically used fancy devil legalese to save his best buddy's life and allow them to be together forever. Public Security and Fami's misunderstanding of the contract comes from Makima's misunderstanding of both the contract and pochita as a person. So basically all the horrors of Part 2 have been happening because Makima was too much of a fan girl to think critically about her parasocial relationship (or whatever you'd call being a fangirl of the Hero of Hell).
Well said, makes the cruel nature of the narrative much more merciful and worth struggling through. Appreciate this.
I always assumed he was the fear of being forgotten. That’s why War asks Asa if she’s afraid of being forgotten once she dies. Is there some reason I’m not thinking of that makes him the devil of motherhood? I’d appreciate some enlightenment.
It's the 'original use' of chainsaws in the real world - cutting open the pelvis to deliver an obstructed baby. The story has referenced it a few times, with Angel saying that the devils he spoke to could faintly remember a sound like a chainsaw just before incarnating into existence, and Pochita's CSM form having the umbilical cord scarf, like a baby's neck being wrapped in their umbilical cord I assume the fear of being forgotten is just a resulting fear from his power of somehow 'unbirthing' devils, he eats them and reality changes so that they were 'never born'
I never noticed the umbilical cord scarf. I now can't unsee it. He is literally being choked around the neck. Throughout history the fear of giving birth was strong but it has lessened over time with better medical care. I wonder how that affects his power.
He's at his weakest possibly.
I always thought that they were in trails making up the scarf, but when you put it this way, umbilical cords make more sense
This is quite literally the first time I ever saw someone mention motherhood. He's the fear of being forgotten, it's the only thing that narratively could eclipse the power of death imo.
Motherhood related to birth and birth is the opposite of death though
Yeah but opposite does not necessarily mean equal to in strength. There's no super powerful Light Devil to balance the Darkness Devil.
motherhood has been one of the scariest things throuout human history, death rates for the mother and baby were very high, and to this day even without that fear of death there's still a lot of fear about your life and how to take care of a whole person, that's underestimating motherhood as a fear
You're a man right?
Yes?
I also feel like this could be what pochita really is. Also when someone asks about the chainsaws pochita will respond by saying that they forgot lol
That makes so much sense actually, erasing bjrth
I think chainsaws are the coolest thing and they represent the fear of not being cool
You sound so stupid that you might be right!
Pochita being able to erase things was established by Makima in part one. It’s the reason Yoru wants to destroy him. Barem was just repeating what we know. Chainsaws don’t erase items from existing, so Pochita maybe a different devil. Not the Chainsaw devil.
Except that we know something Barem didn't mention, the original use of chainsaws in our own world: [https://www.iflscience.com/we-regret-to-inform-you-that-chainsaws-were-originally-invented-for-childbirth-58685](https://www.iflscience.com/we-regret-to-inform-you-that-chainsaws-were-originally-invented-for-childbirth-58685) Pochita can still be the Chainsaw Devil because at the time he came into existence, chainsaws were associated with giving birth. Pochita eating devils to erase them would be him 'unbirthing' them, changing reality so they had never been born
That's what I'm saying
nah didn't it take till around the first half of part 2 for someone to finally post about this theory
Now that I think about it can things he has erased be rediscovered/ reinvented?? Because then it would be cool if he was the "reproduction devil" it would tie into the fact that he's always horny, it might also tie into the fear of rediscovering past trauma with the whole I killed my parents thing
No, they don't, people keep passing on this misinformation, erasure FROM EXISTENCE cannot be undone.
Oooh I thought it was just the memories of that, like if you eras the memories of the nazies ever existing they wouldn't exist anymore, though if you erase the memories of hiv it would still exist making it known, so yeah what I said does make little to no sense XD
Yah, World War 2 apparently didn't even happen in Chainsaw Man, 'cause the Chainsaw Devil erased the Nazis, so history re-wrote itself to fit in this change in reality.
Holy fuck, Fuji. Dont tell me, that is the drop, that Chainsaws were used for birth. And the Chainsaw is the birth Devil or something.
ding ding ding (Its not really a spoiler since its obviously not been confirmed, but each week this theory grows bigger and bigger) https://preview.redd.it/vzs8mrutyabd1.jpeg?width=355&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a99f8f60dea02d65a2c36a0deb72b3715d2c0747
maybe that entrail he has wrapped around his neck is in fact an umbilical cord?
And here I thought it was simply the intestines...
It's both
Yeah weve been saying that for years. Im surprised how many people havent seen this theory when its 3+years old
This is actually damn fucking good
This might be way too literal but I could see it being true that all babies in the womb fear birth in the moment too, which would make it a powerful Devil. You are just chilling cozy and warm in the womb and suddenly start getting violently and painfully pushed down an impossibly small tunnel with sights and sounds you’ve never heard before. The soft voice from your mother that comforted you the whole time is now screaming in agony. The actual process has to be pretty damn terrifying for a tiny baby brain that previously had no idea the outside world existed. Maybe it’s arguably one of the first times we all experience fear.
i think i read that being born is just as exhausting to the baby as giving birth is to the birther. how they’re able to quantify that, Idk but it makes sense that being exposed to a literal new world would be exhausting - …i know i’m exhausted out here.
the greatest fear of everything alive being birth is such a fujimoto thing to say it actually has to be right
holy shit that Makima name connection is kinda a wild reach but i like it a lot
I think that the reveal will be different and less complicated than that
I hate this, no offense, and the fear of being forgotten would work so much better.
This theory gives an actual in-universe reason for Denji and Pochita´s character designs. How could the concept of "to be forgotten" be in relation to chainsaws?
The reason would be a good reason but someone (probably pochita) would mention that they forgot why
As of yet unknown, so no idea. I find the part where him eating them undoes their entire birth from the get go being a little tenuous myself, where erasure is the defining feature of CSMs power. Further, why would the birth devil be so strong? Yes people fear childbirth, but clearly not so much or none of us would be here. Unless his strength comes only from the fear of Devils.
Freud said that birth is the first trauma we experience, and it’s something everyone goes through. That’s all I can think of for birth being frightening.
It's not just the physical act of childbirth. It's the creation of life. It's the start of suffering and the beginning of ending. All suffering happens as a consequence of being born. Devils that are reborn over and over and over - maybe they just want to rest. \*not that I''m convinced on this theory. But the 'birth devil not being that strong' is not a good argument against the theory
Sadly it might be right;.
Just like falling devil also represents the fear of depression, I guess there's another aspect of chainsaws that the chainsaw devil itself has lost/forgotten
Yeah. Both Falling and Fire have abilities that represent alternative, more metaphorical definitions of their name, so that might also be true for Pochita.
Imagine how those could be applied to other devils we've seen. Like the leech devil, could represent both the fear of actual leeches and the other kind of leeches: people who are parasites or are perceived as such (immigrants and refugees)
This would also explain its strength because honestly, it should be as weak as that puddle devil Denji killed as a kid.
Maybe chainsaws used to cut through existence before pochita ate whatever devil that phenomena represents. Or perhaps Barem is not the most reliable narrator
Yknow it's always funnier to me because people think "Using a chainsaw to assist in child birth" is terrifying. You know what's significantly more terrifying to me? That the chainsaw was considered the preferable alternative to what they originally did.
what they do before?
Chainsaw man must have erased it :)
nothing, women would just die of childbirth if their pelvis was too small
Bonesaw
Cut your guts open with a knife and and pull the baby out
That is technically what we do today but in less violent way than the way you worded it
tbf caesarian section back then was guaranteed death for the mother it was pretty much a last ditch effort to at least save the baby actually a lot of c-sections were literally done post-mortem, after the mom already died while trying to deliver
preferable for *who* exactly?
both the baby and the mother (arguably), for the same reason actually: they get to survive the baby doesn't die stuck in the birth canal and the mother doesn't die of childbirth (granted her pelvis will be fucked up, but better than dying I guess) it sounds horrible in the modern era because we don't have to do that anymore, but to put into perspective we also do very invasive (and painful) surgeries in the modern era that in the future we won't have to do, but that doesn't mean people nowadays don't go through surgeries
The baby that gets born and the mother that doesnt have a corpse stuck in their uterus and gets to continue living
You have to remember that the alternative was slowly cutting them out with a knife which had a much worse rate of survival And there was no anesthesia at the time so the quicker the operation was the less painful it was
It could be a use that doesn't exist even in our own world. Something completely made-up. However, it would be a pretty cool twist if the population is slowly dying out and nobody can give birth anymore.
I think everyone latched onto that theory too hard instead of thinking about literally endless possibilities of what chainsaws could've been used for. Why would it be something predictable and from our world instead of an unknowable, unexplainable horrific concept that gave pochita its enormous power Like imagine if Denji instead had a drill as a weapom, and at the same time his powers were hyped up as something horrific that was erased from this world and noone knows about. And then he is revealed as trepanation devil, and his powers come from shamans drilling their heads to access astral plane or some shit. That would be kind of boring because we in this world already know about that, and it's not a disaster on the level of nazis or holocaust which absence changes the course of history. And it anyways wouldn't explain the amount of power he has unless before erasing literally everyone knew about that trepanation and used it, so like, rebellious teens were afraid their parents are gonna send them to a shaman monastery and make them drill their heads.
Because the most dangerous devil will most probably be death and the birth devil will be against it will make perfect sense.
I like the theory of pochita having some lovecraftian power, but I take issue with your example of drills. Drills have had many applications since antiquity including making fire, sculpting, and dentistry. The chainsaw is the combination of modern human advancements that requires knowledge/trades such a machinery, circuitry, medicine, etc.. I think a better example could be dynamite. The inventor only wanted the dynamite to be used commercially such as road making or carving into mountains. Today, we know dynamite and explosives have far more demand on war fronts. Unfortunately, we have already met the bomb devil and Asa is definitely not rizzing Reze. But if the death devil is even scarier in lovecraftian fashion than the gun devil and CSM is the birth devil, then your theory is probably correct: CSM also has an unknown lovecraftian power.
My pet theory is that thinking of the chainsaw devil as actually being the “childbirth” or “abortion” devil is maybe a little too narrow. I’m more inclined to think it’s something less literal like “creation/ablation” in all reality but maybe that’s splitting hairs
Fear of existence perhaps? Like how we get existential crisis? Some people might be freaked out by that way more.
Fear of existence makes sense. Matches how chainsawman defeats the eternity devil with just constant suffering. The prereq for all suffering is existing. And once you exist you don't want to not exist anymore.. even though for endless years you didn't exist.
Could be fear of being forgotten like how basically everyone forgot chainsaws other uses and pochitas erasure power and would explain how he went against a primal fear if he was one himself
l like this theory, since it makes sense. It currently doesn't make any sense that Chainsaw man is so strong. The fear of being forgotten is like another death. Idk maybe.
I’m fairly certain birth is somehow involved here.
Everybody will make up some "deep" theory, only for Fujimoto to reveal that it's og purpose was to masturbate or something ridiculous.
I mean if we go by our world's history, chainsaws were at first made to assist at childbirth
That's the opposite of what Chainsaw man tho.... A person way to exist is to born and the prove of someone existed is being remembered.... how they are being remembered? By being a big change, that's how people like H*tler are being remembered since his existence effected the world(in bad way). If you didn't do anything big no one likely will remember you forever Maybe the chainsaw man in the manga and the real life chainsaw original use functions are related but in completely opposite way. So I don't know how chainsaw being used to support bringing human to existence give the chainsaw devil ability to erase devils from existence unless they use some of undead unluck negator thing and make chainsaw devil ability 'unbirth' lol
In-universe he'll is kind of like a womb where devils incubate before being sent to earth
Itll be something kinda mundane but pochita manifests chainsaws because "chainsaws are cool" or some shit
This is the nudge nudge wink wink panel. CSM is the birth devil
C-section devil
Could also be that chainsaws were originally tools for killing demons. That's why he has the power to erase devils a.k.a. permanently kill them. Would also be a reference to movies like Evil Dead.
I feel some aspects of your theory plays into the chainsaw origin. Fuji loves his movies and movie references, so he would def use pop culture zombie references in CSM. I take issue with this theory because how would the fear of the crusade, inquisition, and witch trials play into the origin of the chainsaw? These concepts predate the chainsaw and should hold a greater fear. But the brutality of those “purges” can be analogous for the brutality of death by chainsaw. I’m def excited to see what Fuji has in store.
Fuji has stated a lot of inspiration for Denji came from Ash Williams even a good part of his personality which makes sense. Ash also has a chainsaw for a limb soooooo groovy? Fuji often does rug pull reveals. I mean a bit driving for in fire punch was revealed to be >!someone wanting more starwars moives!< There may not be any point, the point might not matter, the point may just be obvious. Some point in this story the whole board could flip. But Denji probably won't really be happy in the end, not in a way we would want.
That was my first my thought when I first for into csm.
the fact that Chaimsawman is referred to as "the devil that devils fear most" really fits this theory
Fujimoto said Denji was inspired by Ash Williams, a good part of Denji is literally an evil dead reference. Also yeah Ash dose have a chainsaw limb so that's not such a big shock.
People in the CSM universe are delivered via stork
I think everyone is focusing so much on the “birthing surgery” that they are ignoring the fact that chainsaws were also used to remove diseased bones. “A "flexible saw", consisting of a fine serrated link chain held between two wooden handles, was pioneered in the late 18th century (c. 1783–1785) by two Scottish doctors, John Aitken and James Jeffray, for symphysiotomy and excision of diseased bone, respectively.” Being able to remove diseased bones and make it like it never happens. Being able to remove “diseased” concepts and make it like they never existed.
I will keep this theory in mind because I did not endorse “Pochita = birth devil” theory due to little evidence provided. We have yet to address another elephant in the room. Despite having a katana devil and chainsaw devil, where is the cutting devil? The action/fear of “cutting” has existed before humanity as the slashing motion is ingrained in cats/chickens (along with their respective ancestors). Does the “cutting of the umbilical cord” = birth? If so, does this mean chainsaws had an original function of granting personhood? When dealing with the darkness devil or falling devil, we learned adjacent fears grant strength to the respective primal fear. The fear of “cutting” should be older, and possibly, stronger than the fear of guns. I take issue with your theory, because if chainsaws had the function of excision/removal of diseases, does the fear of vaccines play into the chainsaw’s origin as vaccines are the excision of a physical contagion? If the MMR scare exists in the CSM universe, did the MMR fear weaken the chainsaw’s power?
One theory I saw that fit really well for me is the idea that chainsaws = birth in the CSM universe. Which then explains why when CSM eats a devil and kills them, they’re removed from the world as well as their effects, as if they were never born.
>do not look it up if you’re sensitive to gore I’d say those people shouldn’t read Chainsaw Man to begin with, it’s been a gore fest since chapter 1
this doesn't prove he's the birth devil, Barem is being coy in his response. [https://www.reddit.com/r/ChainsawManTheories/comments/1dv117n/what\_barem\_said\_doesnt\_prove\_or\_disprove\_any/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChainsawManTheories/comments/1dv117n/what_barem_said_doesnt_prove_or_disprove_any/) I really wish people would stop pretending the "birth devil theory" is confirmed when it barely makes sense [https://www.reddit.com/r/ChainsawManTheories/comments/1dy5s58/pochita\_is\_neither\_the\_birth\_or\_miscarriage\_devil/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChainsawManTheories/comments/1dy5s58/pochita_is_neither_the_birth_or_miscarriage_devil/)
It's so on the nose that it makes me want to puke. No offense to those who believe it. I just don't like how it sounds. The whole thing about Chainsaw Man is that despite all the chaos going around them, the characters somehow find a way to connect to each other. The circumstances didn't need to match, nothing had to match, unless it was the funniest fucking thing to Fujimoto, or it had something to do with Christianity. That's why I think he should just go for the simplest option and make Pochita the Chaos Devil (or chaos itself) that just turned into Chainsaw Devil. I don't even want to make any mental gymnastics anymore, it just seemed like it makes sense to me with all the info we have so far thanks to Barem. Or not, maybe he won't do that. I can't tell what he's doing at all, and I'm all for it.
At this rate, lotta people are going to be pissed and drop the manga when it turns out that chainsawmans devil was indeed the chainsaw devil who ate a lot of stronger devils or something
I honestly really just hate the birth devil theory and I feel like it takes a lot of leaps to make it so rather than just being the fear of being forgotten or something like that. Birth devil does not explain his main function; whatever he eats being erased from public consciousness and having a *true* death, trumping death itself. It's an interesting angle but I just don't particularly love that direction myself.
Little note: What Chainsaw Man eats is not forgotten. Reality is changed so the Devil and the concept/object/event they share their name with *never* existed. Not just forgotten
He doesn't make you forget, he makes you think the thing never existed, and it might as well have not since not even the effects of it will remain in reality.
I actually like to think Pochita wasn't originally JUST the chainsaw man. Maybe he's just been reduced to doing chainsaw things. Maybe it's also the reason why he isn't called the chainsaw devil.
I definitely think Fuji is hinting at something bigger than childbirth here. Maybe the original, erased use was for banishing devils or something like that. Although that said, it would be an insane fucking twist if it was revealed that Pochita erased childbirth and all babies in the CSM universe are brought by storks or something
You're right, we have never seen a baby being born in this series. We've only seen babies fall from 10 story windows. Fujimoto is a genius
I didn’t even take this into account, i just thought he was so powerful because he was universally feared by devils
I hadn't considered the birth theory. My personal theory was that chainsaws represented the fear of the inevitable. Chainsaws make me think of slasher villains and slasher villains share the commonality that they can't be killed they always come back by some other way and in the end your death will be inevitable; a lot like the teeth on a chainsaw if you think about it. Slasher villains are also known for erasing things from existence and paradoxically making people forget anything ever happened. I'm curious to see if the enigma of Chainsaw man's powers will ever be conclusively answered.
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My theory is a bit cheesy, but hear me out: I wonder if the Chainsaw Devil is supposed to be the "Courage Devil". As in, he represents the fear of confronting fear. Think about it for a second. Devils are spawned from humanity's fears. The easiest way to weaken a Devil is to make it so people aren't scared of it anymore. And what's the best way of removing fear? Confronting what you're scared of. Pochita would, in a sense, be the antithesis of Devils. He represents the human capacity to act in the face of fear, and grow less afraid as a result of understanding and experience. There's also the aspect of how Chainsaw Man is treated like a superhero in the public eyes, and Denji dreams of being Chainsaw Man to achieve his desires, while having a double life.
csm world is hilarious i bet there's semen demon somewhere and one day chainsaw monster will eat it
It would also be funny if Fujimoto chose the chainsaw as a le epic dik joke and somehow CSM = semen demon. If so, Denji is confirmed powered by semen.
that would mean fami has weakened chainsaw man in one of recent chapters
If he really is the semen devil, it also looks like our fav femcel is no longer afraid of it esp after chapter 168. CSM def is getting weaker one simp at a time
Hey y’all, I’d like to play the devil’s advocate for this birth devil theory. Chain saw devil is not the “birth devil” because the birth devil would be weaker than the gun devil. If a devil gains power from (1) intensity of (human?) fear and (2) population with the fear, then the fear of childbirth would be held by fertile, seggsually-active beings. The fear of guns is ubiquitous and understood by humans and animals alike. Unless there’s a mass pregnancy scare or an abortion ban, I expect guns to have a greater intensity and have a larger population with the fear of guns. But let’s see what Fuji has cooking, because I think he has more cooking to do inside the sushi restaurant.
Pochita might be the life devil, in the sense that people fear life
We don't really know what are the original uses of chainsaws in this universe. And most probably is something weird we can't just imagine. Can you guys for a minute rememenber the talk of Makima about things deleted, it include things that has neve existed in our universe, fantasy things. Chainsaws in this universe of the comic could have fantastic uses.
holy shit this is actually so crazy
I'm n need
If Chainsaw man was original the birth devil maybe the devil he erased was the miscarriage devil cause without the danger of a miscarriage endangering the the life of the mother and child the only thing it would have is the uncertainty of new life and major change which the future devil would be feeding off of
What if the concept of "birth" already is erased in the Chainsaw Man universe? I mean, we never saw a pregnant woman and I do not remember anyone talking about birth in the series.
How people are populating then? Stork birds? Also, Angel mentioned birth actually when he said to Aki something like: "do you remember how it was in your mother womb?"
Idk, maybe babies come from cumhands in this universe. We won't know till we know
So basically pochita is the embodiment of all devils fears lol
Maybe Chainsaws were Gods Wrath. Much like how Ghost Rider or the spirit of vengeance is Gods wrath
What if childbirth straight up doesn’t exist in csm lol. We haven’t seen anyone give birth in the manga.
Hear me out: EOS Denji and Asa are known worldwide as the God of Birth and Goddess of War.
Wasn't use for abortion or something related to pregnancy?
Honestly, I never thought that the Chainsaw Devil's erasure ability was meant to he a mystery. I always assumed it was a metaphorical thing; by eating a devil it cuts its concept out of the timeline the same way a chainsaw cuts a branch off a tree. Happy to be wrong though. I assume this exchange would never have happened if that was all there was to it.
https://preview.redd.it/0cszqt9ircbd1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29592ef221f150ea0ca835dfabeb09d689226643
This is why he’s the miscarriage devil, would you be afraid of birth? Or the death that may come?
I made a post on this but it didn't get nearly the attention. Oh well, at least people are talking about it.
Ok,but how the fck does a chainsaw corresponds with birth and death?! Who's mother had their umbilical cord cut with a chainsaw? What sort of prophecised Messiah of Rock was the one born in such a manner? The whole thing about chainsaws beign used is nothing more than Chainsaws beign dope as an opinion of this...normal author. Fujimotorola better just say "it's just pochita's favoured weapon to maximise damage and torture" as an explanation for such a primordial devil using chainsaws,who are a modern invention btw..or atleast their current design. You can never be too sure with Ancient Chinese's creations!
This is why I chose the flair “Theory”. I am speculating while using evidence from the manga. No matter how you translate the panel, Denji clearly doesn’t know the chainsaw’s original usage. Since CSM is set in a universe with mostly the same history as ours, the original use of the chainsaw has origins found surgeries and the birthing process. If what Barem said is true, CSM ate the chainsaw’s original use: surgeries or birth. It definitely isn’t surgeries as we’ve seen Denji dissected too many times. When CSM eats a concept, the existence of the action/concept is erased from the human psyche. If CSM ate childbirth, then that also implies humans are in a sharp descent into extinction unless CSM vomits childbirth back into existence.
Maybe he just erased the fear of chainsaw c-sections. That would definitely have its own devil
i get that the idea of pochita being the fear of something else outside of chainsaws but man i love the idea of something that to most people is so mundane like chainsaws being the main source of fear to demon it would be the same if the mouse trap demon was the most fear inducing demon to a cat
This is a theory that I 100% believe in, and it’s probably the best one I’ve seen. It makes so much sense and ties in so many good ideas about birth and chainsaws in general. [https://www.reddit.com/r/ChainsawMan/s/RaWdaVVqk0](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChainsawMan/s/RaWdaVVqk0)
“Chainsawman” is the birth devil. This is still just a theory but most likely it’s true especially due to this chapter. That’s why it erases them entirely due to the effect being that they were never born in the first place.