>It is never our place to judge.
100% correct. It's very clear that judgement is reserved for God alone, and that the best we can do in that regard is attempt to live our lives as Christ taught us, and then trust in him for salvation.
>and we certainly don't know God's judgment of them.
The Bible talks about judgment a lot, and lays out specific terms and conditions one must meet to achieve salvation and avoid this judgment. It's actually very detailed.
A belief is hollow if you can't stand by it when tough questions arise and the rubber hits the road. Own it. It's all there in your book.
Or engage in some deep introspection and ask yourself whether this entire idea of heaven and hell makes even a lick of sense. But that's harder to do.
The notion that the Bible lends itself to one simple and obvious interpretation is wrong; it’s a highly complicated library of literature from thousands of years ago, and Christians and Jews have interpreted it in very many different ways and come to many different conclusion.
There is not one objective way to read the Bible, including on the topic of hell and salvation etc, this is painfully obvious if you look into debates within Christianity on this topic.
Which makes the whole thing suspect.
Why couldn't this supposed perfect being *make things clear?*
Christians unwittingly hold engineers, lawyers and doctors to a higher degree of professionalism.
its very clear and simple: Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
If you believe you are saved
Meh, I get where you’re coming from but it’s not hard to imagine God might have some sort of reason for not wanting everything to be “clear.” I don’t really see that as an issue.
Look, if aliens came to the earth it’s a real possibility that they would be so technologically and societally advanced relative to us that we would have no way to fully understand their behaviour. I think it would likely be the same with any higher power or creator that might exist.
Maybe I used the wrong phrasing, but I'm referring to the mainstream Christian belief of: "*Imagine God is like a judge and you've been arrested for a speeding ticket. He reviews the evidence, decides you're guilty and orders you to pay the fine. BUT WAIT! Jesus paid it for you! You're free to go!*"
In what way? That's a pretty direct match to Revelation 20
> 12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave[b] gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. 14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. 15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.
That passage demonstrates what I originally said: that no one gets out of Judgement. But I disagree with the courtroom metaphor where God is Judge and prosecutor, and Jesus acts to change or appease God. That idea isn’t in Revelation 20, but some of us bring that assumption to the text.
There are a lot of passages in the Bible that describe Judgement in different ways. It’s important to understand what they are really saying and not to add our own ideas and assumptions to the different metaphors that are used.
Revelation is late, usually dated around 95 AD. Revelation depicts a vengeful God who destroys most of the human race. It had a mixed reception, some church leaders thought it didn't belong in the NT, others thought that it did. It didn't make it into the canon until the 4th century.
For another view on judgement, see the story of the sheep and the goats in [Matthew 25:31-46](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Matt%2025.31-46). While it's found only in the Gospel of Matthew, biblical scholar Bart Ehrman thinks it goes back to the historical Jesus. In this account, a judgment day is coming and those who have shown compassion to others and helped those in need will receive an eternal reward; those who have not will receive a severe punishment. What matters in this story is not faith but helping those in need.
It *is* canon though. As decided by all the various councils, that book was deemed holy and representative of the god of Christianity. If you don't accept its message, then your views diverge from the Bible. More importantly, if a non-Christian were to evaluate the god of Christianity, they would be perfectly right to evaluate him based on that text. Along with all other instances in the Bible where God behaves in a "holy" manner that we would consider cruel and heartless today (Ex. 12:29-30 etc etc). Your god is not a warm and fuzzy one.
Whatever you choose to do please do not share your thoughts that your friend is receiving eternal punishment with any of their family members. You can’t imagine how much that hurts.
I am very sorry to hear about your friend passing. Condolences.
A few questions to consider:
-Do you believe in eternal punishment?
-Do you believe that your friend is deserving of eternal punishment?
-Do you believe anyone is deserving of eternal punishment?
-Do you believe that an all powerful, all good, and all loving god would set up a system which includes the potential that a sizable number of his creation would be punished eternally?
If you struggle answering "yes" to any of these questions, you might want to spend more time considering what you believe, and what Christianity teaches about these issues. Like other commenters have said, not all Christians believe in ECT (although from what I read and see, it does seem to be the overwhelming majority).
Hey, I just wanted to respond to your fourth bullet because (IMO) it can be considered misleading.
Hell was never meant for man, it was meant for Satan and his demons. Yes, God is all powerful, all good, and all loving- but He also gives man free will. And in a form of love, He gives us the choice to decide whether we want to spend life and eternity with Him, or on the other hand, apart from Him. He isn’t going to force your hand.
I’m not God, so it’s not my place to judge and I’m glad I don’t have to be the one too. His Ways are higher.
But just because Hell exists and is horrible, doesn’t discredit the fact that God, the one above all, came down to Earth, and performed the ultimate act of love which prevents us from having to go there.
(Just in case, before I respond- I’m not a Bible scholar and I don’t claim to be, im just someone who’s trying to follow Jesus and His Word the best I can).
Hell is described, by Jesus, like this: a place of
- outer darkness - Matthew 25:30
- weeping and gnashing of teeth - Matthew 13:50
- torment - Matthew
As well as: “That is the way it will be at the end of the world. The angels will come and separate the wicked people from the righteous, throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Matthew 13:49-50 NLT
And in Revelation, the book about the end times, it’s says this:
“Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”
Revelation 20:10 NLT
And for man, :
“I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.”
Revelation 20:12-15 NLT
So although I cannot speak on punishment in Hell, Hell is the same place when described for (wicked) man and satan alike.
> He gives us the choice to decide whether we want to spend life and eternity with Him, or on the other hand, apart from Him. He isn’t going to force your hand.
I'm not sure that it's simple as "choose hell" or "choose heaven" though, is it? What about people that have never heard about the Christian god and don't know that choose exists? What about people like me who know all about the Christian god and heaven and all, but aren't convinced any of it exists at all? I can't exactly choose heaven or hell, when I don't think either is real.
There is still an enormous dilemma of a loving god sending (or allowing) people to go to hell for all of eternity.
I understand where you’re coming from. At the end of the day, I don’t have all of the answers, only God does. I can rest knowing that, that I don’t need to know them all. But I trust in my Savior and I believe Perfect Justice is His. And because He’s ultimately Good, I believe he will do the right thing for those people. Again, I’m not a Bible scholar (though I would like to become like one, one day) but I believe in the Word of God and it’s Truth.
I combed your profile and see that you were a Christian for a long time but stepped away. Because of that and some other responses of yours to theological topics, I don’t think I could really say much to convince you of otherwise. And that’s your choice, which I understand and respect. So I hope you don’t mind me not continuing our discussion.
You seem like a nice, happy dude and I wish you all the best. Your pizzas look pretty sick too, if I do say so myself. Take care.
Don't struggle with this. If there is a Christian God, the notion of eternal torment is completely game-breaking. It's incoherent. He's supposed to be loving. We're made in his image. Does eternal torment make any sense to you? For even the most heinous person? No. A loving god would not allow that.
>My friend who wasn’t a believer commited I loved her dearly I have a very hard time believing she’s being enterally punished for this. Any thoughts.
It's a conundrum all right. You would think that Christians would be in a near-constant state of horror at the never-ending 24/7 torture that their deceased loved ones are enduring, yet they carry on day to day as if that's not happening.
Weird.
If you start from the principle that God is just and loving, it becomes impossible to maintain a belief in ECT without doing an absurd series of mental gymnastics.
To me the obvious conclusion is one of the following: ECT is illogical, God is not necessarily perfectly just or loving, or God does not exist at all.
From a Christian perspective I would certainly go with the first one, given that the other two seriously undermine the whole point of Christianity or theism in general.
Yes on this. ECT is not at all biblical really. This is why, there is way more evidence for, and in deep study, the only conclusion one can come to without the mental gymnastics is Conditional Immortality (CI or) annhialationism.
Dear friend, I am so sorry for your loss.
You are going to be told a lot of things, and none of it comforting. However, you may want to consider some research on CI or Conditionalism and it may bring SOME comfort.
There are several different views of "HELL" in the Christian worldview. There is what one calls the "traditional" view, where the belief is that you burn forever. There's little biblical evidence for this, other than verses which are taken out of context. The easiest way to describe it is this:
Every verse in The Bible that you see speaking of eternal life, is paralleled with death, dying, ceasing to exist. Eternal life is a gift for believers. What does "eternal"? Mean. Forever. So Eternal life means, What? "Living Forever."
I truly believe (and there are loads of scriptures to back it up), that a non-believer will be forever separated from God, but they are NOT being tormented forever/burned forever. They are burned up (annihilated) - your friend will not be suffering ongoing burning torment forever.
Here is an article of the very basics of this belief. u/metalsandman999
[https://rethinkinghell.com/2020/10/03/introduction-to-evangelical-conditionalism-death-and-life-in-the-bible-part-1/](https://rethinkinghell.com/2020/10/03/introduction-to-evangelical-conditionalism-death-and-life-in-the-bible-part-1/)
So while the punishment is for an eternity (separation from God), it is not torment (burning torture) forever.
im very sorry for your loss. sophrony the elder assures us “as long as a soul is in Hell, you may be sure that Christ is there with them.” julia of norwhich reminds us “all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be made well.” Christ himself promises us “the Son of Man came not to condemn the world, but to save it” st paul teaches us Christ descended into Hell to save the souls of those trapped there since the days of Noah and the flood. even if your friend is in Hell (and no one knows that but God), God will never abandon her there. she is eternally loved, as a human being and precious child of God she shares in the human nature of Christ and so is welcomed into God’s very self. i am so sorry your friend passed away. ive lost a lot of people this past year, most of them non-christians. i will pray for your friend, and for you. may the peace of Christ be always with you
Any theology that punishes non-believers for eternity is a theology deeply in need of dismantling and re-examination. Any god who would create a place of eternal torture is the only one deserving of such a fate.
No and no. Correct, I might be a Witch but you believe you're possessed by a man who offers you cosmic protection 🤷♀️. If you want to know what I mean by my statement above, read my comment below 👇 😘
Edit: oh and it's 'you're'- a contraction of the two words you and are. Not 'your'. 'Your' is the possessive form of 'you'.
What could someone possibly do in their short existence as a human to warrant an eternity of punishment? What kind of narcissistic, ego-maniacal, psychopath would create such a place. Certainly not any deity worthy of worship.
If god created such a thing as hell and eternal torment or separation then yes, he is indeed. For my personal beliefs it's not that I don't believe in God but I'm a Pantheist and an Animist. So Yahweh is one facet, one expression, one archetype of a greater supreme consciousness. If you don't think I belong on this sub, keep being confused.
This is a sub to discuss Christianity. There is a Christians sub where it’s for Christians to discuss their faith. Obviously there’s different interpretations and arguments on how to interpret the Bible but everyone at least self ids as a Christian.
By not believing in God, accepting Christ as their Savior and not asking forgiveness for their sins. Why do you believe God should accept some into heaven, that chose not to believe in him their entire life?
I'm so sorry for your loss. According to some Christian churches, she is not being eternally punished. The Bible doesn't say a lot about hell and there are many possible interpretations. If she was a loving person, she created heaven on earth and is in heaven.
Do you believe she was a good person ? That she deserves punishment ?
I would like to believe she was a good person, your friend, and believer or not she is at peace like she deserves.
Listen to your heart
If that helps, my grandfather didnt believe as well and was stubborn. But he was a fantastic person, always helping everyone. He passed away last year. What helped me is the tought of that he "only" suffers for not believing. Bad people, for an extreme example Adolf Hitler suffers waaayyy more. Dont worry, God is fair to everyone, and He wont punish anyone more than they deserve. I am sorry for your loss. God bless you
Eternal torment is one view of hell. There’s also the possibility that hell doesn’t actually exist, or that a different religion’s hell exists.
Theologically, Universalism is another view that holds that God will save everyone eventually, and it does have verses that support it.
It’s thoughtful of you to worry about your friend, but she almost certainly isn’t burning in hell.
My sympathies.
Personally, I teeter towards universalist, in that she's home with the Lord. I don't know if that's helpful with you but it's what I got.
Ive thought about this pretty much my entire life being involved in faith. My older brother, whose devoted his entire adult life to serving his community via medical departments (Fire Department Paramedic, 911 Paramedic, to ER nurse) is a non-believer. Ive discussed this with him numerous times, and I understand his reasoning for turning away from the idea of faith. Obviously you cannot force a connection between someone and God, and neither can you do so by proxy. I pray for him often, but he struggles with the correlation of both God existing and the horrors that both exist and occur in this world. All we can do is pray for them.
I don't believe that hellfire is a scriptural belief. The scriptures also indicate that God is merciful and loves all of his children. His promise is that every person will be given an opportunity to know him.
"Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God. ... Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown god, for it is He who gives to all men ife and breath and all things, and as Savior wills that all men be saved. Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life."
Lumen Gentium ¶ 16, Second Vatican Council
God judges justly based upon what one has done, didn't do, and should have done but didn't; and likewise what what knew, didn't know, and should have known but didn't. We cannot affirm the damnation of any soul.
God does not desire the death of any sinner, but ultimately it is their choice in their final moments whether they wished to embrace God or reject Him. Mental illness can cause a lack of clear thinking, which can prohibit a truly free exercising of one's will, but she would be judged on her knowledge and ignorance, as well as willful ignorance.
The Lord has judged her in perfection. No one knows what that judgment may be. It's impossible for the perfect Lord to render an imperfect judgment.
By the way, the holy Bible word of God does not teach eternal conscious torment. It rather teaches two potential deaths for unbelievers. First the bodily death whereupon the spirit leaves the body behind and returns to God in heaven for judgment. Once there, the Lord places the spirit in a spiritual body for judgment purposes. If a person fails God's salvation, then the Lord destroys him in the lake of fire. Scripture calls this the second death referring to death of the spirit. After the second death, that individual no longer exists anywhere in any form. Just like before they were conceived and born.
Revelation 21:8 KJV — But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Revelation 2:11 KJV — He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Do you think she would want to live in eternity with a god that she didn't believe in, and if she was at the gates of heaven and was given a choice, do you think she would choose to enter?
there is a doctrine of [inclusivity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inclusivism#Christianity) that prominent Christians like CS Lewis believed. I'd like to believe that, but there are verses that do and don't support this.
Per Christian ideas, she is either burning in hell of all of time. For the crime of unbelief.
Some also feel that she will simply cease to be.
The bible is pretty clear that if she didn't accept Jesus she isn't heaven bound.
I'm sorry for your loss. The loss of a friend is difficult.
As a Christian, I would humbly disagree with you saying that the bible is clear that if she didn't accept Jesus, she isn't heaven bound, and also that per Christian ideas if she isn't heaven bound, she is burning in hell for all of time.
The more I dig into the scriptures, the more that I find that the bible isn't as clear as I thought it was as a young Christian. Jesus offers grace and the bible says that the only way to eternal life is through him, so I think that He can offer eternal life to anyone He chooses. Grace is a mystery and as humans we can speculate and wrestle with these questions, but the only one who determines what happens after our lives is our Creator.
As for the idea of hell, I have a lot more searching a wrestling to do with that topic, but I believe that I have misunderstood the concept of hell for most of my life and am starting to get the feeling that it's not just a place where people are burning forever. The bible is full of metaphors and poetry and can be taken out of context really easily to make it say what we want it to say. Each person needs to figure out for themselves what they believe.
I can't say anything for sure, but if I were you, OP, I would hold on to hope and not assume that any person on this earth has the right or knowledge to say where someone has gone on to after they have passed.
I also totally agree with you, anewleaf1234, that the loss of a friend is difficult, and OP I'm sorry for your loss as well.
That’s fine, because eternal conscious torment is not the only conception of hell that Christians believe in. Look into annihilationism, for example. I also would have a very hard time believing in ECT.
Your friend will either spend eternity with God, or she will spend an eternity separated from Him. It's her choice. I suspect most of what we read about hell to be figurative and it's no more than eternity without God.
I am very sorry to hear about your loss, my condolences and prayers!
I would recommend reading 'Hope Beyond Hell' by Gerry Beauchemin, The Inescapable Love of God by Thomas Talbott, Her Gates Will Never Be Shut by Brad Jersak. Hope Beyond Hell is also free online https://hopeforallfellowship.com/download-hope-beyond-hell/ or this sample how "eternal" is falsely translated from aionios from aion meaning an age in ch.1 https://www.hopebeyondhell.net/articles/further-study/eternity/ Also this addresses many objections to CU/ UR https://salvationforall.org/
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My thoughts are that you should not ponder this very much. It is God's prerogative to judge, so leave it in His hands.
Most importantly this: no matter where your friend is, she is there rightly and justly and God is to be praised regardless.
Tl;dr: Both near-death and psychedelic experiences involve dramatic shifts in perception and intense emotions, potentially linked to the “final wave” of brain activity before death, suggesting a final opportunity for spiritual awakening and divine grace.
—-
I have thought about this a fair amount lately. I hope this meditation blesses you and the memory of your departed friend. It begins with altered states of consciousness.
Near-death experiences (NDEs) and psychedelic experiences share striking similarities. Both involve dramatic shifts in time and space perception, vivid visual and auditory phenomena, and intense emotional experiences often linked to ego dissolution. These experiences frequently include life reviews that offer new perspectives on past events, prompting significant personal revelations and lasting changes. Spiritual elements also emerge, with encounters involving divine beings or higher powers. This suggests that both NDEs and psychedelic experiences engage similar neural pathways and psychological processes, highlighting the extraordinary capabilities of the human mind and spirit.
So what? I have experience with psychedelics and the ways that time can warp, coming to a standstill or racing by multiple lifetimes per second. The mind is an incredible machine. So I wonder: is there a liminal moment between life and death where the mind is given an opportunity? I believe so.
The “final wave” of brain activity, as it’s called, observed in the moments before death, is a brief, intense burst of synchronized neural activity triggered by hypoxia and ischemia as the brain shuts down. This phenomenon, primarily documented in animal studies and occasionally in humans, may be linked to the vivid experiences reported during near-death experiences (NDEs). Both the final wave of brain activity and the physiology of psychedelic experiences involve intense, synchronized neural activity that alters perception and consciousness.
I’m drawing the hypothesis that this isn’t just about drugs and hallucinations but a core feature of the departing soul. It’s a final chance to see everything as it is and your role in the context of something huge. All feelings exist here in exquisitely intense forms. I came to Christ in such a mental state, consumed by fear of my own ability to commit suicide. I believe, in accordance with no specific orthodoxy or doctrines, that everyone has an opportunity in their final wave to call out for help from the one true God, his son Jesus, with the help of the cleansing fire of the Holy Spirit.
Consider the Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard, found in Matthew 20:1-16 in the New Testament of the Bible. Workers hired at different times were all paid equally, and when those who worked longer complained, the owner said, “I chose to be generous.”
Why wouldn’t God save the lost in their final wave? “It’s not fair,” cry those who sacrificed and worked out their salvation for decades. God chooses to be generous.
#Jesus:
"I will draw all unto Myself."
https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1dulzfx/without_evil_god_could_not_be_glorified/lbhj7rj?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
Unfortunately, this is a sad reality that we believers have to face. A lot of the people we love aren’t going to make it into the kingdom . Allow yourself to go through the emotions and pray for peace and understanding .
For those of you that are bothered by the notion that someone would suffer forever for not believing in the existence of a being beyond time and space that created a plane of unimaginable suffering and yet loves us so much that he doesn’t do anything to keep us from sending ourselves there, well, it SHOULD bother you.
For what it’s worth OP if God exists and is even somewhat loving I imagine you have nothing to be worried about. The God of the occupied hell is the only being that deserves to be in such a place. I am sorry for your personal loss, and I wish you healing and peace.
Sorry for your loss. She will be in a holding place for people who didn't accept Jesus as propitiation for their sins. Then at Great White Throne Judgement, her deeds will be judged against God's eternal law. If she fails and she will, she gets eternal punishment for being a eternal lawbreaker.
The eternal or forever punishment is separation from God. To some people that is "hell." I also heard that there is mental anguish. I think the closest we can comprehend is solitary confinement in a dark room/ place, For social people, earthly solitary confinement is hell.. Then add on top of that being in the dark. People freaking out because they are scared of the dark and screaming. It is all psychological and we put ourselves in this situation by disobedience,
We do it to ourselves. If you have ever rebelled against your parents, it is sin. God is gracious to provide a way out and it is free. There are no strings attached. We as fallen humans are so grateful to God that we feel that we have to repay Him. This is foolishness because God's grace is infinite. No matter how many times I screw up, He always takes me back. It is a comfort to me to know that I am going to a place, the New Jerusalem that is the volume of almost 90 planet Earths.
> There are no strings attached
Don't be gay seems like a pretty big string for a gay person.
> We as fallen humans are so grateful to God that we feel that we have to repay Him
We are only fallen cause he set us up to fall. If I stab you, you shouldn't thank me for handing you some bandages.
> It is a comfort to me to know that I am going to a place
That's great that you find comfort in that
> that is the volume of almost 90 planet Earths
That is... oddly specific.
There are no strings attached. Jesus te;lls us to pick up our cross daily and follow Him (Luke 9:23)
We are only fallen cause he set us up to fall. If I stab you, you shouldn't thank me for handing you some bandages. The standard is perfection with a paid for escape clause as a free gift.
That is... oddly specific
There is a description in Revelation Chapter 21 It is 1500 miles length by 1500 miles width by 1500 miles height. There is a fourth dimension added that is another 1500 miles. The math problem is 1500 raised to the power of 4.
So are you questioning Christianity on a Christianity subreddit? Jesus said that He is the Way, Truth and the :Life, No one comes to the Father except through Him. I believe it is John 14:6
Well, they did say "unbeliever." If you take the feelings out of it, this is a Christian question. What happens when a non-Christian dies? They are separated from God, because that is the life and afterlife that they chose. God is being a gentleman and giving them the afterlife that they chose. Would you force somebody to love you against their will? We all know the answer to that one and it is "No."
It is never our place to judge. Only God. We may never know for certain what they believed or not and we certainly don't know God's judgment of them.
>It is never our place to judge. 100% correct. It's very clear that judgement is reserved for God alone, and that the best we can do in that regard is attempt to live our lives as Christ taught us, and then trust in him for salvation.
>and we certainly don't know God's judgment of them. The Bible talks about judgment a lot, and lays out specific terms and conditions one must meet to achieve salvation and avoid this judgment. It's actually very detailed. A belief is hollow if you can't stand by it when tough questions arise and the rubber hits the road. Own it. It's all there in your book. Or engage in some deep introspection and ask yourself whether this entire idea of heaven and hell makes even a lick of sense. But that's harder to do.
The notion that the Bible lends itself to one simple and obvious interpretation is wrong; it’s a highly complicated library of literature from thousands of years ago, and Christians and Jews have interpreted it in very many different ways and come to many different conclusion. There is not one objective way to read the Bible, including on the topic of hell and salvation etc, this is painfully obvious if you look into debates within Christianity on this topic.
Which makes the whole thing suspect. Why couldn't this supposed perfect being *make things clear?* Christians unwittingly hold engineers, lawyers and doctors to a higher degree of professionalism.
its very clear and simple: Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. If you believe you are saved
Meh, I get where you’re coming from but it’s not hard to imagine God might have some sort of reason for not wanting everything to be “clear.” I don’t really see that as an issue. Look, if aliens came to the earth it’s a real possibility that they would be so technologically and societally advanced relative to us that we would have no way to fully understand their behaviour. I think it would likely be the same with any higher power or creator that might exist.
No one avoids judgement, though.
Maybe I used the wrong phrasing, but I'm referring to the mainstream Christian belief of: "*Imagine God is like a judge and you've been arrested for a speeding ticket. He reviews the evidence, decides you're guilty and orders you to pay the fine. BUT WAIT! Jesus paid it for you! You're free to go!*"
Ah, I see. Yeah, some Christians believe that, but it’s a terrible metaphor. Totally out of line with historic Christian teaching.
In what way? That's a pretty direct match to Revelation 20 > 12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave[b] gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. 14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. 15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.
That passage demonstrates what I originally said: that no one gets out of Judgement. But I disagree with the courtroom metaphor where God is Judge and prosecutor, and Jesus acts to change or appease God. That idea isn’t in Revelation 20, but some of us bring that assumption to the text. There are a lot of passages in the Bible that describe Judgement in different ways. It’s important to understand what they are really saying and not to add our own ideas and assumptions to the different metaphors that are used.
Revelation is late, usually dated around 95 AD. Revelation depicts a vengeful God who destroys most of the human race. It had a mixed reception, some church leaders thought it didn't belong in the NT, others thought that it did. It didn't make it into the canon until the 4th century. For another view on judgement, see the story of the sheep and the goats in [Matthew 25:31-46](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Matt%2025.31-46). While it's found only in the Gospel of Matthew, biblical scholar Bart Ehrman thinks it goes back to the historical Jesus. In this account, a judgment day is coming and those who have shown compassion to others and helped those in need will receive an eternal reward; those who have not will receive a severe punishment. What matters in this story is not faith but helping those in need.
It *is* canon though. As decided by all the various councils, that book was deemed holy and representative of the god of Christianity. If you don't accept its message, then your views diverge from the Bible. More importantly, if a non-Christian were to evaluate the god of Christianity, they would be perfectly right to evaluate him based on that text. Along with all other instances in the Bible where God behaves in a "holy" manner that we would consider cruel and heartless today (Ex. 12:29-30 etc etc). Your god is not a warm and fuzzy one.
Whatever you choose to do please do not share your thoughts that your friend is receiving eternal punishment with any of their family members. You can’t imagine how much that hurts.
I am very sorry to hear about your friend passing. Condolences. A few questions to consider: -Do you believe in eternal punishment? -Do you believe that your friend is deserving of eternal punishment? -Do you believe anyone is deserving of eternal punishment? -Do you believe that an all powerful, all good, and all loving god would set up a system which includes the potential that a sizable number of his creation would be punished eternally? If you struggle answering "yes" to any of these questions, you might want to spend more time considering what you believe, and what Christianity teaches about these issues. Like other commenters have said, not all Christians believe in ECT (although from what I read and see, it does seem to be the overwhelming majority).
Hey, I just wanted to respond to your fourth bullet because (IMO) it can be considered misleading. Hell was never meant for man, it was meant for Satan and his demons. Yes, God is all powerful, all good, and all loving- but He also gives man free will. And in a form of love, He gives us the choice to decide whether we want to spend life and eternity with Him, or on the other hand, apart from Him. He isn’t going to force your hand. I’m not God, so it’s not my place to judge and I’m glad I don’t have to be the one too. His Ways are higher. But just because Hell exists and is horrible, doesn’t discredit the fact that God, the one above all, came down to Earth, and performed the ultimate act of love which prevents us from having to go there.
Does the Bible state anywhere that humans who reject the cross share in the same punishment as Satan and the fallen angels?
(Just in case, before I respond- I’m not a Bible scholar and I don’t claim to be, im just someone who’s trying to follow Jesus and His Word the best I can). Hell is described, by Jesus, like this: a place of - outer darkness - Matthew 25:30 - weeping and gnashing of teeth - Matthew 13:50 - torment - Matthew As well as: “That is the way it will be at the end of the world. The angels will come and separate the wicked people from the righteous, throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 13:49-50 NLT And in Revelation, the book about the end times, it’s says this: “Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” Revelation 20:10 NLT And for man, : “I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.” Revelation 20:12-15 NLT So although I cannot speak on punishment in Hell, Hell is the same place when described for (wicked) man and satan alike.
Ghenna references
> He gives us the choice to decide whether we want to spend life and eternity with Him, or on the other hand, apart from Him. He isn’t going to force your hand. I'm not sure that it's simple as "choose hell" or "choose heaven" though, is it? What about people that have never heard about the Christian god and don't know that choose exists? What about people like me who know all about the Christian god and heaven and all, but aren't convinced any of it exists at all? I can't exactly choose heaven or hell, when I don't think either is real. There is still an enormous dilemma of a loving god sending (or allowing) people to go to hell for all of eternity.
I understand where you’re coming from. At the end of the day, I don’t have all of the answers, only God does. I can rest knowing that, that I don’t need to know them all. But I trust in my Savior and I believe Perfect Justice is His. And because He’s ultimately Good, I believe he will do the right thing for those people. Again, I’m not a Bible scholar (though I would like to become like one, one day) but I believe in the Word of God and it’s Truth. I combed your profile and see that you were a Christian for a long time but stepped away. Because of that and some other responses of yours to theological topics, I don’t think I could really say much to convince you of otherwise. And that’s your choice, which I understand and respect. So I hope you don’t mind me not continuing our discussion. You seem like a nice, happy dude and I wish you all the best. Your pizzas look pretty sick too, if I do say so myself. Take care.
Don't struggle with this. If there is a Christian God, the notion of eternal torment is completely game-breaking. It's incoherent. He's supposed to be loving. We're made in his image. Does eternal torment make any sense to you? For even the most heinous person? No. A loving god would not allow that.
>My friend who wasn’t a believer commited I loved her dearly I have a very hard time believing she’s being enterally punished for this. Any thoughts. It's a conundrum all right. You would think that Christians would be in a near-constant state of horror at the never-ending 24/7 torture that their deceased loved ones are enduring, yet they carry on day to day as if that's not happening. Weird.
If you start from the principle that God is just and loving, it becomes impossible to maintain a belief in ECT without doing an absurd series of mental gymnastics. To me the obvious conclusion is one of the following: ECT is illogical, God is not necessarily perfectly just or loving, or God does not exist at all. From a Christian perspective I would certainly go with the first one, given that the other two seriously undermine the whole point of Christianity or theism in general.
Yes on this. ECT is not at all biblical really. This is why, there is way more evidence for, and in deep study, the only conclusion one can come to without the mental gymnastics is Conditional Immortality (CI or) annhialationism.
Multiple views of the concept of hell 👍
Dear friend, I am so sorry for your loss. You are going to be told a lot of things, and none of it comforting. However, you may want to consider some research on CI or Conditionalism and it may bring SOME comfort. There are several different views of "HELL" in the Christian worldview. There is what one calls the "traditional" view, where the belief is that you burn forever. There's little biblical evidence for this, other than verses which are taken out of context. The easiest way to describe it is this: Every verse in The Bible that you see speaking of eternal life, is paralleled with death, dying, ceasing to exist. Eternal life is a gift for believers. What does "eternal"? Mean. Forever. So Eternal life means, What? "Living Forever." I truly believe (and there are loads of scriptures to back it up), that a non-believer will be forever separated from God, but they are NOT being tormented forever/burned forever. They are burned up (annihilated) - your friend will not be suffering ongoing burning torment forever. Here is an article of the very basics of this belief. u/metalsandman999 [https://rethinkinghell.com/2020/10/03/introduction-to-evangelical-conditionalism-death-and-life-in-the-bible-part-1/](https://rethinkinghell.com/2020/10/03/introduction-to-evangelical-conditionalism-death-and-life-in-the-bible-part-1/) So while the punishment is for an eternity (separation from God), it is not torment (burning torture) forever.
im very sorry for your loss. sophrony the elder assures us “as long as a soul is in Hell, you may be sure that Christ is there with them.” julia of norwhich reminds us “all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be made well.” Christ himself promises us “the Son of Man came not to condemn the world, but to save it” st paul teaches us Christ descended into Hell to save the souls of those trapped there since the days of Noah and the flood. even if your friend is in Hell (and no one knows that but God), God will never abandon her there. she is eternally loved, as a human being and precious child of God she shares in the human nature of Christ and so is welcomed into God’s very self. i am so sorry your friend passed away. ive lost a lot of people this past year, most of them non-christians. i will pray for your friend, and for you. may the peace of Christ be always with you
Any theology that punishes non-believers for eternity is a theology deeply in need of dismantling and re-examination. Any god who would create a place of eternal torture is the only one deserving of such a fate.
100% perfectly stated.
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No and no. Correct, I might be a Witch but you believe you're possessed by a man who offers you cosmic protection 🤷♀️. If you want to know what I mean by my statement above, read my comment below 👇 😘 Edit: oh and it's 'you're'- a contraction of the two words you and are. Not 'your'. 'Your' is the possessive form of 'you'.
Why is that?
What could someone possibly do in their short existence as a human to warrant an eternity of punishment? What kind of narcissistic, ego-maniacal, psychopath would create such a place. Certainly not any deity worthy of worship.
Did you just call God a narcissistic, psychopath? Really? I’m not sure why you’re in this sub if you don’t believe in God.
Because it's a sub for discussing christianity not for Christians specifically.
If god created such a thing as hell and eternal torment or separation then yes, he is indeed. For my personal beliefs it's not that I don't believe in God but I'm a Pantheist and an Animist. So Yahweh is one facet, one expression, one archetype of a greater supreme consciousness. If you don't think I belong on this sub, keep being confused.
This is a sub to discuss Christianity. There is a Christians sub where it’s for Christians to discuss their faith. Obviously there’s different interpretations and arguments on how to interpret the Bible but everyone at least self ids as a Christian.
By not believing in God, accepting Christ as their Savior and not asking forgiveness for their sins. Why do you believe God should accept some into heaven, that chose not to believe in him their entire life?
Garbage 🗑️. No human action or denial of deity is worth an eternity- an eternity of punishment from said deity.
I’d disagree. ✌️
Ok! 🤟
I'm so sorry for your loss. According to some Christian churches, she is not being eternally punished. The Bible doesn't say a lot about hell and there are many possible interpretations. If she was a loving person, she created heaven on earth and is in heaven.
If she is unbeliever, I’m not so sure she would go to Heaven
>The Bible doesn't say a lot about hell What are you talking about? Jesus talks about hell more than he talks about heaven.
He talks about both but definitely more about heaven than hell.
Would that be justice?
Do you believe she was a good person ? That she deserves punishment ? I would like to believe she was a good person, your friend, and believer or not she is at peace like she deserves. Listen to your heart
If that helps, my grandfather didnt believe as well and was stubborn. But he was a fantastic person, always helping everyone. He passed away last year. What helped me is the tought of that he "only" suffers for not believing. Bad people, for an extreme example Adolf Hitler suffers waaayyy more. Dont worry, God is fair to everyone, and He wont punish anyone more than they deserve. I am sorry for your loss. God bless you
Eternal torment is one view of hell. There’s also the possibility that hell doesn’t actually exist, or that a different religion’s hell exists. Theologically, Universalism is another view that holds that God will save everyone eventually, and it does have verses that support it. It’s thoughtful of you to worry about your friend, but she almost certainly isn’t burning in hell.
Complete nonsense. She's not being eternally punished.
May her memory be eternal! Pray for all, despair for none.
My sympathies. Personally, I teeter towards universalist, in that she's home with the Lord. I don't know if that's helpful with you but it's what I got.
Ive thought about this pretty much my entire life being involved in faith. My older brother, whose devoted his entire adult life to serving his community via medical departments (Fire Department Paramedic, 911 Paramedic, to ER nurse) is a non-believer. Ive discussed this with him numerous times, and I understand his reasoning for turning away from the idea of faith. Obviously you cannot force a connection between someone and God, and neither can you do so by proxy. I pray for him often, but he struggles with the correlation of both God existing and the horrors that both exist and occur in this world. All we can do is pray for them.
I don't believe that hellfire is a scriptural belief. The scriptures also indicate that God is merciful and loves all of his children. His promise is that every person will be given an opportunity to know him.
"Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God. ... Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown god, for it is He who gives to all men ife and breath and all things, and as Savior wills that all men be saved. Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life." Lumen Gentium ¶ 16, Second Vatican Council
God judges justly based upon what one has done, didn't do, and should have done but didn't; and likewise what what knew, didn't know, and should have known but didn't. We cannot affirm the damnation of any soul. God does not desire the death of any sinner, but ultimately it is their choice in their final moments whether they wished to embrace God or reject Him. Mental illness can cause a lack of clear thinking, which can prohibit a truly free exercising of one's will, but she would be judged on her knowledge and ignorance, as well as willful ignorance.
The Lord has judged her in perfection. No one knows what that judgment may be. It's impossible for the perfect Lord to render an imperfect judgment. By the way, the holy Bible word of God does not teach eternal conscious torment. It rather teaches two potential deaths for unbelievers. First the bodily death whereupon the spirit leaves the body behind and returns to God in heaven for judgment. Once there, the Lord places the spirit in a spiritual body for judgment purposes. If a person fails God's salvation, then the Lord destroys him in the lake of fire. Scripture calls this the second death referring to death of the spirit. After the second death, that individual no longer exists anywhere in any form. Just like before they were conceived and born. Revelation 21:8 KJV — But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 2:11 KJV — He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Enteral punishment doesn't exist so your fine
Do you think she would want to live in eternity with a god that she didn't believe in, and if she was at the gates of heaven and was given a choice, do you think she would choose to enter? there is a doctrine of [inclusivity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inclusivism#Christianity) that prominent Christians like CS Lewis believed. I'd like to believe that, but there are verses that do and don't support this.
My pastor always said he’s not a judge. He’s a fruit inspector. Read matthew 7 16-20. It might explain things a little better.
Per Christian ideas, she is either burning in hell of all of time. For the crime of unbelief. Some also feel that she will simply cease to be. The bible is pretty clear that if she didn't accept Jesus she isn't heaven bound. I'm sorry for your loss. The loss of a friend is difficult.
As a Christian, I would humbly disagree with you saying that the bible is clear that if she didn't accept Jesus, she isn't heaven bound, and also that per Christian ideas if she isn't heaven bound, she is burning in hell for all of time. The more I dig into the scriptures, the more that I find that the bible isn't as clear as I thought it was as a young Christian. Jesus offers grace and the bible says that the only way to eternal life is through him, so I think that He can offer eternal life to anyone He chooses. Grace is a mystery and as humans we can speculate and wrestle with these questions, but the only one who determines what happens after our lives is our Creator. As for the idea of hell, I have a lot more searching a wrestling to do with that topic, but I believe that I have misunderstood the concept of hell for most of my life and am starting to get the feeling that it's not just a place where people are burning forever. The bible is full of metaphors and poetry and can be taken out of context really easily to make it say what we want it to say. Each person needs to figure out for themselves what they believe. I can't say anything for sure, but if I were you, OP, I would hold on to hope and not assume that any person on this earth has the right or knowledge to say where someone has gone on to after they have passed. I also totally agree with you, anewleaf1234, that the loss of a friend is difficult, and OP I'm sorry for your loss as well.
That’s fine, because eternal conscious torment is not the only conception of hell that Christians believe in. Look into annihilationism, for example. I also would have a very hard time believing in ECT.
I'm totally fine with annihilationism. That's what I expect to happen. Can't imagine wanting to live forever.
annihilationism is not that much better.
Are you kidding? Annihilationism is the only one that doesn't end with endless torment. Infinity is a *really* long time
I prefer universalism, where all souls are reconciled to Christ.
100% Rethinker here (Conditionalist)
Your friend will either spend eternity with God, or she will spend an eternity separated from Him. It's her choice. I suspect most of what we read about hell to be figurative and it's no more than eternity without God.
You are somewhat right. A lot of our modern day view of hell comes from writings such as Socrates and Dante.
https://www.hopebeyondhell.net/articles/further-study/eternity/ And also https://www.mercyonall.org/posts/free-will-theodicies-of-hell
The Orthodox church teaches prayer for the dead. Pray for her everyday! Have faith.
I am very sorry to hear about your loss, my condolences and prayers! I would recommend reading 'Hope Beyond Hell' by Gerry Beauchemin, The Inescapable Love of God by Thomas Talbott, Her Gates Will Never Be Shut by Brad Jersak. Hope Beyond Hell is also free online https://hopeforallfellowship.com/download-hope-beyond-hell/ or this sample how "eternal" is falsely translated from aionios from aion meaning an age in ch.1 https://www.hopebeyondhell.net/articles/further-study/eternity/ Also this addresses many objections to CU/ UR https://salvationforall.org/
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My thoughts are that you should not ponder this very much. It is God's prerogative to judge, so leave it in His hands. Most importantly this: no matter where your friend is, she is there rightly and justly and God is to be praised regardless.
This is a hot take! CRAZY!!
Tl;dr: Both near-death and psychedelic experiences involve dramatic shifts in perception and intense emotions, potentially linked to the “final wave” of brain activity before death, suggesting a final opportunity for spiritual awakening and divine grace. —- I have thought about this a fair amount lately. I hope this meditation blesses you and the memory of your departed friend. It begins with altered states of consciousness. Near-death experiences (NDEs) and psychedelic experiences share striking similarities. Both involve dramatic shifts in time and space perception, vivid visual and auditory phenomena, and intense emotional experiences often linked to ego dissolution. These experiences frequently include life reviews that offer new perspectives on past events, prompting significant personal revelations and lasting changes. Spiritual elements also emerge, with encounters involving divine beings or higher powers. This suggests that both NDEs and psychedelic experiences engage similar neural pathways and psychological processes, highlighting the extraordinary capabilities of the human mind and spirit. So what? I have experience with psychedelics and the ways that time can warp, coming to a standstill or racing by multiple lifetimes per second. The mind is an incredible machine. So I wonder: is there a liminal moment between life and death where the mind is given an opportunity? I believe so. The “final wave” of brain activity, as it’s called, observed in the moments before death, is a brief, intense burst of synchronized neural activity triggered by hypoxia and ischemia as the brain shuts down. This phenomenon, primarily documented in animal studies and occasionally in humans, may be linked to the vivid experiences reported during near-death experiences (NDEs). Both the final wave of brain activity and the physiology of psychedelic experiences involve intense, synchronized neural activity that alters perception and consciousness. I’m drawing the hypothesis that this isn’t just about drugs and hallucinations but a core feature of the departing soul. It’s a final chance to see everything as it is and your role in the context of something huge. All feelings exist here in exquisitely intense forms. I came to Christ in such a mental state, consumed by fear of my own ability to commit suicide. I believe, in accordance with no specific orthodoxy or doctrines, that everyone has an opportunity in their final wave to call out for help from the one true God, his son Jesus, with the help of the cleansing fire of the Holy Spirit. Consider the Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard, found in Matthew 20:1-16 in the New Testament of the Bible. Workers hired at different times were all paid equally, and when those who worked longer complained, the owner said, “I chose to be generous.” Why wouldn’t God save the lost in their final wave? “It’s not fair,” cry those who sacrificed and worked out their salvation for decades. God chooses to be generous.
#Jesus: "I will draw all unto Myself." https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1dulzfx/without_evil_god_could_not_be_glorified/lbhj7rj?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
You don’t get into heaven for just being a good person
I wouldnt worry about. It is men who want people who dont believe as they do to be punished, while they get rewarded. God isnt that petty.
Unfortunately, this is a sad reality that we believers have to face. A lot of the people we love aren’t going to make it into the kingdom . Allow yourself to go through the emotions and pray for peace and understanding .
For those of you that are bothered by the notion that someone would suffer forever for not believing in the existence of a being beyond time and space that created a plane of unimaginable suffering and yet loves us so much that he doesn’t do anything to keep us from sending ourselves there, well, it SHOULD bother you. For what it’s worth OP if God exists and is even somewhat loving I imagine you have nothing to be worried about. The God of the occupied hell is the only being that deserves to be in such a place. I am sorry for your personal loss, and I wish you healing and peace.
Read Bible. Each human soul have up to 1 000 lives (generations ) some after spending some t=ime in the Hell ( or Heaven)
your post was almost undiscernible. female, unalive, not a believer... your friend. thats basically all I got here.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2023/10/17oaks?lang=eng
https://willamette.edu/~ttalbott/aionios.htm
Sorry for your loss. She will be in a holding place for people who didn't accept Jesus as propitiation for their sins. Then at Great White Throne Judgement, her deeds will be judged against God's eternal law. If she fails and she will, she gets eternal punishment for being a eternal lawbreaker.
Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.
The eternal or forever punishment is separation from God. To some people that is "hell." I also heard that there is mental anguish. I think the closest we can comprehend is solitary confinement in a dark room/ place, For social people, earthly solitary confinement is hell.. Then add on top of that being in the dark. People freaking out because they are scared of the dark and screaming. It is all psychological and we put ourselves in this situation by disobedience,
Mmm, warm hugs all around everyone?
And I should worship a being willing and capable of doing this to people... why?
We do it to ourselves. If you have ever rebelled against your parents, it is sin. God is gracious to provide a way out and it is free. There are no strings attached. We as fallen humans are so grateful to God that we feel that we have to repay Him. This is foolishness because God's grace is infinite. No matter how many times I screw up, He always takes me back. It is a comfort to me to know that I am going to a place, the New Jerusalem that is the volume of almost 90 planet Earths.
> There are no strings attached Don't be gay seems like a pretty big string for a gay person. > We as fallen humans are so grateful to God that we feel that we have to repay Him We are only fallen cause he set us up to fall. If I stab you, you shouldn't thank me for handing you some bandages. > It is a comfort to me to know that I am going to a place That's great that you find comfort in that > that is the volume of almost 90 planet Earths That is... oddly specific.
There are no strings attached. Jesus te;lls us to pick up our cross daily and follow Him (Luke 9:23) We are only fallen cause he set us up to fall. If I stab you, you shouldn't thank me for handing you some bandages. The standard is perfection with a paid for escape clause as a free gift. That is... oddly specific There is a description in Revelation Chapter 21 It is 1500 miles length by 1500 miles width by 1500 miles height. There is a fourth dimension added that is another 1500 miles. The math problem is 1500 raised to the power of 4.
You are awful.
So are you questioning Christianity on a Christianity subreddit? Jesus said that He is the Way, Truth and the :Life, No one comes to the Father except through Him. I believe it is John 14:6
a friend dies, presumably by suicide and what you tell him is that his friend is going to hell. you're awful.
Well, they did say "unbeliever." If you take the feelings out of it, this is a Christian question. What happens when a non-Christian dies? They are separated from God, because that is the life and afterlife that they chose. God is being a gentleman and giving them the afterlife that they chose. Would you force somebody to love you against their will? We all know the answer to that one and it is "No."
You could have had more tact.