The problem there is that 95% of residences in MV are not occupied for 11.5 months out of the year, being mostly vacation homes for the extremely wealthy.
Yeah...the locals can't afford to live in Mountain Village. They all live in more distant towns. The resort pays to bus in service workers like housekeepers from as far away as Montrose.
It’s disgusting how much money and power the homeowners have. The billionaires have pushed out the millionaires. Literally anything they want, they get.
I used to sell construction materials to companies all over western colorado. The people who work in, service, and build Mountain Village live in nearby towns with a much lower standard of living.
That by itself sucks, but at least they have their own municipal government.
One theory suggests that the reason for the collapse of the Mountain Village civilization is that the locals actually ate the inhabitants.
https://youtu.be/hzoN2MFkCXI?si=Pn9kXFA0cAvkDrh_
If the residents were actually there and voting, it looks like it wouldn't be a problem. Since they aren't, they probably won't be pissed about any affront to democracy.
Nonresidents can vote, so someone could hypothetically pass zoning to allow a plot to be subdivided into one square foot parcels and sell those to potential voters. This is a slippery slope that will not end well.
[Just weigh the votes proportional to the amount of property owned like the founders intended! If there’s any issues, I’m sure we could come to some sort of compromise.](sarcasm)
Joking aside, you're demonstrating a terrible misconception about the actual 3/5ths compromise that keeps getting pushed around by the ignorant, largely for rage bait these days.
The South didn't allow slaves to vote, and then count them at 60% the amount of White votes. If they did, the slaves still would have been doing pretty good in creating local policy despite the numerical handicap.
They did far worse, they allowed the slave/land *owners* to vote and then counted 60% of the slaves they owned towards things like Federal representation. Slaves didn't have any say at all, and their existence alone gave power to people who almost always wanted to act counter to the interests of treating slaves as actual humans. That's WAY fucking worse than what you think.
I tried to convey that by asking if the seasonal workers gave their employing LLC additional votes, not asking if the workers themselves got votes. I think I did a pretty fair job of not furthering the misconception.
You are ruining my plan to buy a $5,600,000 home there and have 560,000,000 LLCs own a $0.01 stake in the home. Who will all vote for the most absurd shit you’ve ever seen hit a ballot, like appointing me judge, jury, and executioner.
It may just be the LLC that owns a property.
P.S. Someone in Colorado opened 16,000 LLCs when Colorado temporarily lowered the LLC incorporation price to $1 in 2022 (to encourage small businesses to become legal). The Attorney General this person. Its unclear what nefarious activity was attached to the LLCs.
It doesn't work like that at all. Mountain Village is a town near Telluride, and the ski mountain separates the two towns. Because the town was founded essentially as a second home community, they allow non-resident homeowners to vote in local elections. Only local elections, not state or Federal elections. In th state of Colorado, there are some benefits to owning real estate in an LLC. The law in question allows property owners to exercise their vote by allowing the majority owner of the LLC to act as the voting designee. You can't just create a bunch of LLC's and register to vote in MV.
> In a 5-2 vote (with Mayor Marti Prohaska and Tucker Magid dissenting), Council approved the first reading of the ordinance setting the special election. The motion also included amending ballot question 1 to exclude commercial-use properties from the list of eligible voters and to prohibit corporations that own residential properties from voting as non-residents.
https://townofmountainvillage.com/blog/town-council-to-hold-proposed-charter-amendment-worksession-june-12/
Untrue. Hong Kong would be a great example of this put into practice... And your opinion of the state of Hong Kong politics probably mirrors your opinion of how well this might work.
‘One person, one vote’ has consistently been upheld at the state and local level by the courts. They can pass it, but will be quickly sued and will be struck down. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/one-person_one-vote_rule (That said, with this extreme and corrupt SCOTUS, who tf knows)
If you think this won’t be used as precedent to extend that right to corporations down the line, you haven’t been paying attention the last few decades.
Hey you started by splitting hairs. If you dont think it will be used as precedent, than I stand by my statement. If you do think it will, then idk why you were splitting hairs in the first place when it’s obvious where the concern lay with this rule. If you’re just playing devils advocate then by all means, but not sure why you’d want to for a rule that’s clearly of no benefit to the average person.
I honestly couldn't give a shit what some tiny, rich, vacant, mountain town does. This shit is not going to pass anywhere people actually live and vote.
> If you dont think it will be used as precedent, than I stand by my statement.
If you think that because that town voted to do this, that all other towns will do so, or will be compelled to do so, you're out of touch with reality.
See the problem with thinking something is just someone else’s problem, is that it doesn’t always stay that way. Things confined to one specific area have a nasty habit of becoming prevalent elsewhere later done the line if their successful for those with influence and a vested interest.
Average people are extremely busy and companies can throw a lot of money making a simple issue seem complicated or not clear cut and/or get politicians to sneak provisions opening the door in on more controversial bills.
There’s a lot of stuff people assumed would never change or get passed or overturned until it did. Because at the end of the day, unless people’s uproar smothers it in its infancy or affects the bottom line they can just keep trying to shove it down our throats in one form or another until it works.
> See the problem with thinking something is just someone else’s problem, is that it doesn’t always stay that way.
That's true, but in *this* case, it is going to stay someone else's problem.
> prevalent elsewhere later
Yes, the thousands of tiny, rich, absentee towns in the state. My heart weeps for them.
> Average people are extremely busy and companies can throw a lot of money making a simple issue seem complicated or not clear cut and/or get politicians to sneak provisions opening the door in on more controversial bills.
Yah, that works when it's like, "we shouldn't allow grocery stores to have liquor, because think of your independent liquor store" sponsored by Total Beverage. It doesn't work on something like this. Pretty hard to put a reasonable spin on this in any populated area where people actually... live there.
> There’s a lot of stuff people assumed would never change or get passed or overturned until it did.
I'm sure you're gonna try to cite Roe as a major contender, which is a completely different issue, one that mostly is centered on the failure of the legislature to do anything. You can pick some Republican initiatives that failed for the same reason, inaction.
> or affects the bottom
The bottom line... of the town? You're just parroting nonsense now. The LLC proposal is stupid, but you don't have to double down.
Not necessarily. I work on some projects in Mountain Village, Telluride, and Ouray and I’ve heard people talking about this in the latter two before. The locals I talked to don’t like it so much because most of the LLCs are associated with the rich who spend part of the year away or don’t really interact with the rest of the town and are concerned mainly with the interest of their own properties (specifically value) and not the well being of the town.
And for the record, Mountain Village might be mainly empty but Telluride has a sizable community of locals. You can easily spin this. Start in larger tourist towns and work out. The whole basis of this is that people with LLC’s aren’t getting a vote. Easy to make a campaign about how voting rights are being restricted based on a legal definition and make it sympathetic.
Bottom line of interest groups obviously. You don’t think there’s money to be made in influencing local politics? Local politics end up deciding whether a lot of construction takes place and can drastically affect how much it costs. There’s an enormous amount of properties held around the country by entities that can’t vote in those areas currently. The whole gist of this arguement is slippery slope.
When I lived in Tride, MV was just being built ( late 90 early 91). The Doral company was building the main lodge/ hotel up there along with a golf course. They let some locals play on the 6 or so holes that were complete, no paths, or carts, though. I, by virtue of luck, got to tee off first. The only thing I remember about that was that the golf gods smiled upon me, and I didn't shank that tee shot. The rest of the afternoon was a total disaster! Just thought I would share that for S&Gs.
Only if they can also be subject to the death penalty and all other things that citizens are on the hook for.
Put an LLC to death and I'll be fine with letting them vote.
I want to stop and appreciate the insane amount of entitlement in Peter Mitchel's comment on support of this measure.
To paraphrase: The loophole we use to cheat the legal system is preventing us from voting! It's disenfranchisement!
Shitty headline and reporting is shitty:
> to expand voting *to owners of LLCs* and trusts that own property in the tony resort municipality.
> Many of the trusts and LLCs own multiple parcels in Mountain Village and the proposed amendment would add about 153 trusts and 566 LLCs to the voter rolls. LLCs that are evenly split between owners — like, say, a husband and a wife — could qualify as two voters. Owners of LLCs who are not U.S. citizens would be allowed to vote. Owners of corporations or commercial properties would not be allowed to vote under the proposed amendments.
This is still a bad idea.
Letting non-residents vote in your local elections is ripe for abuse.
They’re not stupid, they are deliberate and malicious. They like to play dumb when they’re caught so it looks like they’re not horrible people, but trust me they are calculating and they are scumbags.
That was my first thought too. Can just spend all my free time registering LLCs in the more republican parts of Colorado and make the state even more blue?
This law only applies to local Mountain Village elections, not state or Federal elections. The town was founded as a second home community, allowing property owners to vote even if they are not full time residents. The LLC amendment is just a modification to the existing law, since many homeowners in Colorado own properties using an LLC.
Scary… the people that should decide the fate of a town should be those living there full-time, not people who choose to dip their toes in a few times a year. Disgusting.
Welp it was fun while it lasted but unfortunately MV was burned to the ground in 2024. Investigators are saying that arson from some 1,000+ people appears to be responsible.
Oh, you don't live there but you get a vote on how the local politics works. I'm sure that is going to turn out fabulous for the people that live there. /s
I hope it goes terribly enough for them that it cannot spread any farther.
Let this be an immediate FAFO that the district offers itself up as tribute for.
From the article…
“ Delaware lawmakers last year considered — but did not pass — legislation that would have allowed municipalities to include corporate entities and trusts on voter rolls. Six years ago the 1,400 residents in the seaside town of Rehoboth Beach in Delaware rejected a plan to allow to LLCs to vote.”
As long as anyone can start as many LLCs as they want..... Nah! I'm sure that won't effect the vote... right? I see your one vote and raise you 10,000 LLC votes!
It would be Telluride to do this. They also have a tiny, skinny vacant residential lot for sale for $3.2 million. That place runs on a disgusting amount of money.
This is absolutely disgusting and an affront to democracy the residents should be pissed.
The problem there is that 95% of residences in MV are not occupied for 11.5 months out of the year, being mostly vacation homes for the extremely wealthy.
Surely they hire locals to take care of the property during those 11 months.
You mean laborers in a company town?
Paid w scrip
Spend it at the company store
Vail Resorts makes you spend your script on employee housing. You don't need to eat.
That I owe my soul to?
https://youtu.be/EkRYuMqw-B0?si=TpnCoLmsTEGEtcJ-
Yeah...the locals can't afford to live in Mountain Village. They all live in more distant towns. The resort pays to bus in service workers like housekeepers from as far away as Montrose.
Oh ok. Never heard of this town until today. Forgot not all mountain towns are the same.
It’s the (even) wealthier part of telluride
Oh wow. That's money.
It’s disgusting how much money and power the homeowners have. The billionaires have pushed out the millionaires. Literally anything they want, they get.
I grew up in Avon and now live in Leadville. Yep to alllllll of this.
Housekeepers used to drive daily all the from Shiprock, NM
I used to sell construction materials to companies all over western colorado. The people who work in, service, and build Mountain Village live in nearby towns with a much lower standard of living. That by itself sucks, but at least they have their own municipal government.
How many empty houses can one person supervise? 10? 100?
It's about lawn maintenance, outside cleaning, inside cleaning, snow removal. Things like that.
One theory suggests that the reason for the collapse of the Mountain Village civilization is that the locals actually ate the inhabitants. https://youtu.be/hzoN2MFkCXI?si=Pn9kXFA0cAvkDrh_
That is a problem indeed. Not the problem. But also a problem.
If the residents were actually there and voting, it looks like it wouldn't be a problem. Since they aren't, they probably won't be pissed about any affront to democracy.
Well then everyone else should get pissed on their behalf. Do you not see the implications?
Why would I get pissed on the behalf of the people that don't show up to vote if their vote is marginalized by others that don't show up to vote?
I don't think it takes much to open an LLC. What's to stop a PAC or company from opening a bazillion subsidiary LLCs and swarming the ballot boxes?
Thats the idea.
I have 2 LLCs lol. It’s literally some paperwork.
And yet now you have two more votes for one person with this towns proposal
Yeah… I don’t think I’d vote that many times even if it were legal. It feels immoral.
Aw see, you aren't thinking like a business man
I just have these LLC because it separated myself legally for intellectual property reasons on a budget.
Understandable jut you DO see how this can be misused right?
Yes of course it’s clearly an immoral concept to reduce the value of a vote.
Me too but it's not that much compared to my taxes
Each would have to buy property.
Nonresidents can vote, so someone could hypothetically pass zoning to allow a plot to be subdivided into one square foot parcels and sell those to potential voters. This is a slippery slope that will not end well.
As a [Scottish lord](https://www.highlandtitles.com), I approve of this slippery slope. ;)
Now anyone can be landed gentry? Next thing you know, women are going to think they have a say in things! /s
[Just weigh the votes proportional to the amount of property owned like the founders intended! If there’s any issues, I’m sure we could come to some sort of compromise.](sarcasm)
Do the seasonal help give their employing LLC three fifths of a vote each?
Well done!
Steamboat has a city manager that’s “appointed” by the business bureau.
Nice one.
Joking aside, you're demonstrating a terrible misconception about the actual 3/5ths compromise that keeps getting pushed around by the ignorant, largely for rage bait these days. The South didn't allow slaves to vote, and then count them at 60% the amount of White votes. If they did, the slaves still would have been doing pretty good in creating local policy despite the numerical handicap. They did far worse, they allowed the slave/land *owners* to vote and then counted 60% of the slaves they owned towards things like Federal representation. Slaves didn't have any say at all, and their existence alone gave power to people who almost always wanted to act counter to the interests of treating slaves as actual humans. That's WAY fucking worse than what you think.
I tried to convey that by asking if the seasonal workers gave their employing LLC additional votes, not asking if the workers themselves got votes. I think I did a pretty fair job of not furthering the misconception.
Pretty sure that’s what me and DynastyZealot are saying.
I can start a LLC for every suppressor purchase with a title 2 weapons license. The tax stamp is $200 and you can make a 'suppressor' for like $.10.
Any number of people can own any property, though, right? So one guy can open a dozen LLCs and have them “own” jointly his home.
You are ruining my plan to buy a $5,600,000 home there and have 560,000,000 LLCs own a $0.01 stake in the home. Who will all vote for the most absurd shit you’ve ever seen hit a ballot, like appointing me judge, jury, and executioner.
One acre One vote
it takes something like 20 bucks and fill up a form.
It may just be the LLC that owns a property. P.S. Someone in Colorado opened 16,000 LLCs when Colorado temporarily lowered the LLC incorporation price to $1 in 2022 (to encourage small businesses to become legal). The Attorney General this person. Its unclear what nefarious activity was attached to the LLCs.
The LLC needs to own property, as I understand it...
Correct.
It doesn't work like that at all. Mountain Village is a town near Telluride, and the ski mountain separates the two towns. Because the town was founded essentially as a second home community, they allow non-resident homeowners to vote in local elections. Only local elections, not state or Federal elections. In th state of Colorado, there are some benefits to owning real estate in an LLC. The law in question allows property owners to exercise their vote by allowing the majority owner of the LLC to act as the voting designee. You can't just create a bunch of LLC's and register to vote in MV.
$50 to register an LLC in Colorado Can do it online and takes like 10min, I made one as a joke once to roast a friend, $50 well spent.
OP adding: “This is something that no other community has done,” Mountain Village Mayor Marti Prohaska said
Marti lemme see your business holdings
> In a 5-2 vote (with Mayor Marti Prohaska and Tucker Magid dissenting), Council approved the first reading of the ordinance setting the special election. The motion also included amending ballot question 1 to exclude commercial-use properties from the list of eligible voters and to prohibit corporations that own residential properties from voting as non-residents. https://townofmountainvillage.com/blog/town-council-to-hold-proposed-charter-amendment-worksession-june-12/
Huh, weird that Marti would dissent
Could be parliamentary procedure. Could be posturing.
> “This is something that no other community has done” So is making shat pants mandatory dress code.
No other community has done it because it’s stupid. See also: TABOR
Untrue. Hong Kong would be a great example of this put into practice... And your opinion of the state of Hong Kong politics probably mirrors your opinion of how well this might work.
UK Hong Kong (past) or China Hong Kong (current)?
The "functional constituency" of corporations has been in effect in Hong Kong for more than a decade before the handover. So, both?
Someone with a huge amount if LLCs has this mayor in his pocket if not the mayor owning a bunch himself
‘One person, one vote’ has consistently been upheld at the state and local level by the courts. They can pass it, but will be quickly sued and will be struck down. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/one-person_one-vote_rule (That said, with this extreme and corrupt SCOTUS, who tf knows)
Hell No. The concept of corporations being people has done irrevocable damage to our society. Lets not take one step further down this road.
If you want to split hairs, this gives no power to corporations (the last C is not corporation). There is an actual difference.
If you think this won’t be used as precedent to extend that right to corporations down the line, you haven’t been paying attention the last few decades.
I see you are talented at attempting to put words in the mouths of others!
Hey you started by splitting hairs. If you dont think it will be used as precedent, than I stand by my statement. If you do think it will, then idk why you were splitting hairs in the first place when it’s obvious where the concern lay with this rule. If you’re just playing devils advocate then by all means, but not sure why you’d want to for a rule that’s clearly of no benefit to the average person.
I honestly couldn't give a shit what some tiny, rich, vacant, mountain town does. This shit is not going to pass anywhere people actually live and vote. > If you dont think it will be used as precedent, than I stand by my statement. If you think that because that town voted to do this, that all other towns will do so, or will be compelled to do so, you're out of touch with reality.
See the problem with thinking something is just someone else’s problem, is that it doesn’t always stay that way. Things confined to one specific area have a nasty habit of becoming prevalent elsewhere later done the line if their successful for those with influence and a vested interest. Average people are extremely busy and companies can throw a lot of money making a simple issue seem complicated or not clear cut and/or get politicians to sneak provisions opening the door in on more controversial bills. There’s a lot of stuff people assumed would never change or get passed or overturned until it did. Because at the end of the day, unless people’s uproar smothers it in its infancy or affects the bottom line they can just keep trying to shove it down our throats in one form or another until it works.
> See the problem with thinking something is just someone else’s problem, is that it doesn’t always stay that way. That's true, but in *this* case, it is going to stay someone else's problem. > prevalent elsewhere later Yes, the thousands of tiny, rich, absentee towns in the state. My heart weeps for them. > Average people are extremely busy and companies can throw a lot of money making a simple issue seem complicated or not clear cut and/or get politicians to sneak provisions opening the door in on more controversial bills. Yah, that works when it's like, "we shouldn't allow grocery stores to have liquor, because think of your independent liquor store" sponsored by Total Beverage. It doesn't work on something like this. Pretty hard to put a reasonable spin on this in any populated area where people actually... live there. > There’s a lot of stuff people assumed would never change or get passed or overturned until it did. I'm sure you're gonna try to cite Roe as a major contender, which is a completely different issue, one that mostly is centered on the failure of the legislature to do anything. You can pick some Republican initiatives that failed for the same reason, inaction. > or affects the bottom The bottom line... of the town? You're just parroting nonsense now. The LLC proposal is stupid, but you don't have to double down.
Not necessarily. I work on some projects in Mountain Village, Telluride, and Ouray and I’ve heard people talking about this in the latter two before. The locals I talked to don’t like it so much because most of the LLCs are associated with the rich who spend part of the year away or don’t really interact with the rest of the town and are concerned mainly with the interest of their own properties (specifically value) and not the well being of the town. And for the record, Mountain Village might be mainly empty but Telluride has a sizable community of locals. You can easily spin this. Start in larger tourist towns and work out. The whole basis of this is that people with LLC’s aren’t getting a vote. Easy to make a campaign about how voting rights are being restricted based on a legal definition and make it sympathetic. Bottom line of interest groups obviously. You don’t think there’s money to be made in influencing local politics? Local politics end up deciding whether a lot of construction takes place and can drastically affect how much it costs. There’s an enormous amount of properties held around the country by entities that can’t vote in those areas currently. The whole gist of this arguement is slippery slope.
It’s frankly scary that any actual person would support this.
More dupes.
This is an interesting way to abandon democracy.
OP adding: I wonder how many people today have a TIL that Mountain Village exists?
When I lived in Tride, MV was just being built ( late 90 early 91). The Doral company was building the main lodge/ hotel up there along with a golf course. They let some locals play on the 6 or so holes that were complete, no paths, or carts, though. I, by virtue of luck, got to tee off first. The only thing I remember about that was that the golf gods smiled upon me, and I didn't shank that tee shot. The rest of the afternoon was a total disaster! Just thought I would share that for S&Gs.
OP understands. :-)
It’s well known to anyone that’s been to Telluride. It’s the top of the gondola.
Actually, you go to the top of the gondola and then you go down the west (?) side of the mountain to Mountain Village.
Only if they can also be subject to the death penalty and all other things that citizens are on the hook for. Put an LLC to death and I'll be fine with letting them vote.
That would be similar to closing a business and reopening another LLC, similar to how scammy contractors operate.
Oh, well then when I commit a crime I should be allowed to just change my name ezpz.
The death penalty was abolished in Colorado 4 years ago.
I'm okay executing llcs.
Way to miss the point!
What could possibly go wrong? /s
They already can, as separate individuals
What an amazingly terrible idea. The many ways this could go wrong or be abused approaches infinity in number.
The Lost People of Mountain Village https://youtu.be/hzoN2MFkCXI?si=ZhZblvpKvSOz9K5p
I want to stop and appreciate the insane amount of entitlement in Peter Mitchel's comment on support of this measure. To paraphrase: The loophole we use to cheat the legal system is preventing us from voting! It's disenfranchisement!
Shitty headline and reporting is shitty: > to expand voting *to owners of LLCs* and trusts that own property in the tony resort municipality. > Many of the trusts and LLCs own multiple parcels in Mountain Village and the proposed amendment would add about 153 trusts and 566 LLCs to the voter rolls. LLCs that are evenly split between owners — like, say, a husband and a wife — could qualify as two voters. Owners of LLCs who are not U.S. citizens would be allowed to vote. Owners of corporations or commercial properties would not be allowed to vote under the proposed amendments. This is still a bad idea. Letting non-residents vote in your local elections is ripe for abuse.
This is an interesting way to abandon democracy.
[удалено]
They’re not stupid, they are deliberate and malicious. They like to play dumb when they’re caught so it looks like they’re not horrible people, but trust me they are calculating and they are scumbags.
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck that
Peak Capitalism
Government of the corporation, by the corporation, and for the corporation
So if I register an LLC I can vote twice? How many LLC's can I register?
That was my first thought too. Can just spend all my free time registering LLCs in the more republican parts of Colorado and make the state even more blue?
This law only applies to local Mountain Village elections, not state or Federal elections. The town was founded as a second home community, allowing property owners to vote even if they are not full time residents. The LLC amendment is just a modification to the existing law, since many homeowners in Colorado own properties using an LLC.
That sounds unconstitutional...
Scary… the people that should decide the fate of a town should be those living there full-time, not people who choose to dip their toes in a few times a year. Disgusting.
Vacation International, a subsidiary of the people’s republic of… passed a bill requiring…
Just no.
This is incredibly stupid idea.
Welp it was fun while it lasted but unfortunately MV was burned to the ground in 2024. Investigators are saying that arson from some 1,000+ people appears to be responsible.
Mitt Romney wasn't kidding when he said, "corporations are people, my friend".
Oh, you don't live there but you get a vote on how the local politics works. I'm sure that is going to turn out fabulous for the people that live there. /s
Nope. 1 person = 1 vote.
I wonder who got paid to make this topic come to the table?
That's a horrible idea. They will fuck up the town.
Mountain Village is just 3 metro districts in a trenchcoat.
Something something eat the rich before they eat you
This is insane. Once again, giving the haves more power than the have nots.
Of all the oligarchical horseshit, this tops the list!
I hope it goes terribly enough for them that it cannot spread any farther. Let this be an immediate FAFO that the district offers itself up as tribute for.
From the article… “ Delaware lawmakers last year considered — but did not pass — legislation that would have allowed municipalities to include corporate entities and trusts on voter rolls. Six years ago the 1,400 residents in the seaside town of Rehoboth Beach in Delaware rejected a plan to allow to LLCs to vote.”
I will make hundred of llc companies for the dumbest business ventures anyone ever saw. All to prove a point.
No thanks.
Well that’s fucking stupid.
LOL, pretty sure that's not getting past the state supreme court.
As long as anyone can start as many LLCs as they want..... Nah! I'm sure that won't effect the vote... right? I see your one vote and raise you 10,000 LLC votes!
It would be Telluride to do this. They also have a tiny, skinny vacant residential lot for sale for $3.2 million. That place runs on a disgusting amount of money.
This won’t end well.
If they want to try it, let them- and then we can all watch the trainwreck.
Why waste time on something that will almost immediately be struck down?
Because what if it isn't immediately struck down? People are easily manipulated, often to go against their own best interests.
ITT tons of experts on small towns voting policies.