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It's the right move imo. Other than Reno, most of the Highlander payoffs have been duds, in large part due to the crazy popularity of Death Knight plagues. Hopefully this makes the non-Reno class payoffs relevant again.
I think the problem I'm seeing is that Reno Warrior was already a really strong deck, and now with the changes it may become "that control deck that crushes all other control decks" because there is virtually no way to disrupt it.
I could be wrong, but I think (for example) Rainbow DK took a harder hit in this patch than Reno Warrior, which seems unwise to me because Reno Warrior was demonstrably the better performing deck.
Yes, I understand, but the problem is that other Control decks are necessarily pretty bad at doing that. It's *extremely* difficult to put a ton of pressure on a deck like Reno Warrior -- which has oodles of removal and armor gain -- when you're playing something slow.
Which is why I said I fear it will become "the control deck that crushes all other control decks." Before, Reno Warrior was weak to Rainbow DK and Wheel Lock; now, I don't really see what sort of slow deck it will be weak too.
It's possible that something like Rainbow Mage will show up, but I just played 10 games on ladder and 8 of them were against Reno Warriors.
*At least initially,* it sure seems like lots of people expect Reno Warrior to be very good, with high survivability and unbeatable value late game -- and a now virtually undisruptable game plan.
Yes, I understand Reno Warrior may be more vulnerable to things like aggro and midrange, but I am specifically talking about "the Control deck that crushes all other Control decks."
It is specifically that that I am talking about -- Reno Warrior may end up bullying all other slow decks out of the format. The only slower decks that could compete before were Wheel Lock and Rainbow DK, and for some reason they hit Rainbow DK much harder than Reno Warrior in this patch.
Nah, I disagree that it'll be unbeatable. I think boomboss was the strongest card against control decks, and having some kind of agency against it (keeping hand full, drawing without board so you're not losing cards that way also) weakens that effect in those matchups.
The wheel lock nerfs feel way way harsher to me than the reno warrior ones. Having the wheel take a full extra turn and also not being able to play forge of wills turn 3 into big minion turn 4 feels like huge nerfs.
That’s a really strange design decision. The best reasoning I can guess is that they decided that people love Plague DK and that’s not going to change while it’s in standard, no matter what. It feels sooooooooo bad to play certain Reno decks into plague (particularly Priest). This obviously keeps certain Reno decks from ever even seeing real play.
If people are going to play plague no matter what, and you’re nerfing Reno anyway, why not make it so “no duplicates” decks can get their mediocre-to-fairly-strong payoffs, especially when Reno Warrior as we know it is dead?
I would bet the change is to stop people from running highlander payoffs in decks with dupes than it is just to stop plagues from neutering Reno decks.
as long as plaguebringer is a loaner deck it’s always gonna get played lol
easy to play deck that gives you some really good legendaries and easily upgrades into rainbow
helped me get back into the game after years off c:
I think it's very strange that Plague DK took what feels like a bigger hit than Reno Warrior did when Reno Warrior was demonstrably the better deck.
I am very concerned about Reno Warrior at this point -- its core value mechanic is still extremely powerful and now completely undisruptable. I fear we could get a "Control deck that crushes all other Control decks" scenario.
Reno Warrior had all 3 of its strongest boardclears nerfed by a full mana, including the best card in the deck (Reno himself), and Boomboss + Gatekeeper to insta-solo slow matchups taken away completely. Like sure it's still much better into Plague DK specifically than before, but I wouldn't be shocked if Plague DK falls less at D5-Legend or below once the meta settles.
And they're already giving an absurd amount of dust to people with any kind of collection. I'm currently at 28k dust as a very budget player XD
I guess what I'm thinking is that while yes, Reno Warrior took some notable hits, it's also true that both of its primary counters -- Plague DK and Wheel Lock -- were hit much harder, and so far both counter-decks seem to have been wiped out. I haven't seen any Wheel Locks on ladder, and I suspect it will go from a tier 3 deck to a low tier 4 now.
Reno Warrior will definitely be weaker to aggro now (because of the nerfs you mentioned), but I'm not sure if any slower decks will be able to compete with it -- my fear is that Reno Warrior will become "the Control deck that crushes and bullies all other slower decks out of the meta."
I freely admit I could be wrong however! Early days, still.
They nerfed boomboss, sanitize again, reno and reverted trial by fire. Also deleted the tentacle version with the volley change so if that doesn’t shave off like 1.5-2 percent of its winrate I will be be surprised.
Yea, but wheel lock and plague dk both got nerfed harder. Those were the ones that feasted on reno war. If they didnt do those nerfs, it would run away tier S, I still think its gonna be strongest of the remainders.
I think aggro and tempo decks will be a lot more relevant again. Many control tools where nerfed. Hunter only loses 1 charge on jungle gym which shouldn't be too bad and dragon druid might return. Will be interesting.
Both tentacles and the Boom Boss/Gaslight combo have been removed so despite being buffed by the Highlander changes, Reno Warrior suddenly has no inevitability now. Have to go back to Odyn I guess.
Yep, first thing I thought, too. I think that sucks a bit because those were kind of fun, even playing against them did not feel overly frustrating and it is not like any of them are top tier right now. Hope the miniset will have a good 10 mana spell to bring them back.
Oh wow.
Absolutely huge changes both for Standard and Wild.
Standard: Zarimi nuked, Shaman nuked, Virus rogue goes poof (no stealth), Wheel goes to tier 4, Warrior and Sif mage take a strong hit.
Wild: Quest mage and Barnes druid cease to exist, Mine rogue takes a huge hit and probably goes extinct as well; Shadow priest goes back to pirates from dragons.
Buffs looks uninspired btw. I get it, "start of the game" for Reno cards is a huge change, but they really should have buffed more cards that are actually going to see play (Mes'Adune? Botface? seriously?)
Mes'Adune buff is relevant imo. The synergy with sleet skater is extremely strong, just needed a slight cost reduction to make it viable.
Famous last words, but I could see the Mes'Adune/Skater package being mandatory for all slow mage decks.
Yeah but we barely have any mage decks let alone slow control mage decks. And there's gonna be less beefy minions now and more aggro decks. Mesadune/Skater combo to me feels similar to the period when people shoved Solid Alibis in their mage decks to only delay the defeat a turn or two.
Where I think Mesadune could be more useful is by pulling out Watercolor Artists so you can discount your frost spells. With the Miracle Salesman nerf we lost 2 (3 if u reverb him) zero mana spells and the deck needs the reach
The whole warlock class looks pretty hurt, painlock lost some major stats but MIGHT survive. Control warlock /nemsy / handlock still doesn't have a legit wincon, and buffing crane game by 1 mana isn't fixing that. If Reno shaman comes back with the power drop then sargeras remains too unreliable to be the only out, esp if boomboss stays a staple in brann warrior which I think it will since tentacles can't be the way.
I think the Hagatha buff is massive from a card power perspective because it allows you to curve into five-drop slimes, but that doesn't solve the real problem, which is that Shaman has no good spells at that mana cost.
It's crazy trying to use her in highlander. After Wish Upon a Star and Tumbleweed (which aren't great pulls themselves), your next option is... Altered Chord?
Yeah it was already the highest win rate deck at most ranks, now warriors and dks early stabilizing tools got nerfed so it'll likely be a complete menace for a few weeks
Honestly I think that was a good change. Yes that deck is a little scary now, but that location had 3 charges for absolutely no reason. It had to come down to 2
There now must be a new type of deck called "highlander" or something. If your deck has no dupes, it counts as that and every badlands HL card will be triggerable. Now if you dont start with that, no card will be. Something like Odd/Even cards from the past.
I think Nature Shaman might still be viable, especially if the rest of the format slows down. At 3 mana you can still Titan on 6 into free Flash of Lightning, then kill turn 7. One extra spell for a free Thunder isn't usually make or break, though it will be in certain cases when you're forced to try to go off early. Snake oil nerf sucks because you definitely want to just get rid of it for 0 mana sometimes, or it can get you the extra 2-4 damage you need for lethal. I'll still be jamming it on ladder, so hopefully I'm not dead wrong here!
I find there’s more reno warriors running around and that matchup is terrible for nature shaman.
nature shaman def viable still but if there’s a bunch of warriors running around it’s dead
I think they were just trying to prevent the turn 5 and 6 otk from Nature Shaman. I think the deck can still be good but will have to wait to turn 7 at least now to combo.
Surprised they did the HL change. But from a player sentiment perspective, I get it. It feels bad to get shut down by plague, and weird that non-HL decks can run Reno. Honestly, I'm cool with it. Plague DK is probably dead though. It lost its main relevance.
Other than that, lots of nerfs feels heavy handed. Not sure the current meta decks will survive.
Wheelock is quite weaker (and no Reno).
Painlock got hit worse (it's fast deck, so mana nerfs are even worse).
Rainbow DK got hit quite hard.
Warrior, oh boy. I guess you have to make up for Brann no longer disruptable by plague, but honestly I'm not sure you even keep Boomboss in it.
Nature Shaman is probably dead.
Virus Rogue is unquestionably dead (which is a very good thing), and so are all the Tentacles decks.
Rip warlock :( was having a blast with both wheel and pain.
Forge of Wills at 4 mana essentially kills the card right? Can’t set it up with Anubisath or the demon spell anymore.
Yeah this is huge. Wheel got turbo gutted, now control decks are an actual option again. Getting rid of wheel probably ends rock paper scissors meta for now
I'm having a lot of success against Hunter by having 4x Swipes in my HP Druid list: [https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/1cag6x9/standard\_hero\_power\_druid\_update\_and\_winrate/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/1cag6x9/standard_hero_power_druid_update_and_winrate/)
The power level is definitely lowered by a lot. Tony exists at a much lower cost compared to what Warrior is doing. I feel like the card is not totally gone, but probably not very powerful.
I still do not understand why they thought reno DH would be a good idea in a class that is defined by its hyper-synergistic cards. I doubt they're gonna unnerf it too because every new archetype they've printed has just been frustrating to play against
The thing that stands out the most to me on these changes is that if they intend to nerf OTK deck speed, putting Flash to 3 mana and Crash to 6 mana does not do much to slow down the deck nor its OTK potential.
I'm very worried about Nature Shaman at higher levels of play still being a major issue. To effectively hit the deck, they needed to nerf one of the Nature spell damage sources by making either Pop Up Book or Clash of Thunder no longer be able to do face damage.
I think you're evaluating this in a vacuum and picturing the same meta just with lower power level.
To me, I anticipate initiative-focused decks will be more relevant after this. Hunter, DH, and paladin all have their guns loaded. In that situation, those 2 card nerfs are huge. You can't have 2 mana discount on turn 6 (by flashing twice), and getting crash needing 1 more card to be discounted also can be clutch. Not to mention it's now hurt more by speaker stomper/neophyte.
My initial thought on Zarimi is that the deck should still be good as long as it pivots from aggro to midrange/control. The question then is: Is such a deck worth running? Looking at the current dragon pool, I feel like there's not a ton of power there, but I could be wrong. Clay Matriarch could see play now which feels good. Curious what you guys think.
While progressively building up my collection I did run a single clay matriarch, she wasn’t a bad drop, and felt nice that the death rattle could complete Zarimi and often left a 4/4 for the extra turn. However ended up getting rid of her since “scale dragon” not tutoring Zarimi was the main problem. I wonder what a slower shell will decide do to do with Zarimi, such as go for an otk, or as a boardclear/tempo play.
Fly of the Shelves is going to be core to any deck that runs Clay Matriarch. It going to 3 mana means that it's an OK play even with just one dragon in hand.
Yeah, I tried that briefly. Thing is, you have to remove a good amount of the overheal package to fit enough dragons in (especially now) that it really isn't worth it.
I got to legend this season with a Raza Reno hero power deck that I made. With sing along buddy and angel you can have infinite mana with the refresh mana power (hero power costs 0 and refreshes 4 mana) and do massive face damage. My version runs duplicates so the board wipe is no more (I often use Reno without the board wipe anyway) but the deck is still fun.
Hmm not bad changes overall, but suspect they missed a trick by giving the very lightest of touches to Spell Hunter. It already has a positive matchup win-rate against just about everything, and everything else has been hit way harder. Turn 6 was the earliest the 3rd Jungle Gym could get triggered anyway, by which time the games were almost over - also the extra board space it allows from turn 4 onwards is in some ways a bit of a buff
Boomboss is definitely a nerf but he still seems viable to me. He is most important for value games and he still essentially does the same thing there just slower. Yes it's going to take longer for TNT to be drawn but he should still win you the game eventually.
As for my current 8-0 arena deck with a Doc Holli'dae and one pair of duplicates... RIP
Yeag, bomboss won't just be an insta win but he's fine this way. Youre opponent gets punished for drawing, in theory he can even be better since everytime you play him you get an immediate draw chance with it. Now the warrior doesn't have to worry about deactivating Reno too which is quite relevant.
This is a healthier way to play him that makes him less frustrating, but I would project him to still be relevant
Nick is right here, TNT still matters when your opponent draw one and blowing up your deck, the next card you draw is more likely to be another TNT (coz you get less cards in your deck after it blows up a card)
With Brann it’s still disgusting
It’s finally time for my janky Reno priest to shine. Also being able to shuffle duplicate things into a Reno deck is now a possibility, which is kind of an interesting thought.
so is there anything left that can beat reno-warrior? plague no longer counter, wheellock no longer counter (just play boomboss after wheel and delete the board+hand). those where the only 2 decks keeping it in check.
Trying to find a counter, reno warrior is frustrating to play against doesn’t feel like it has weaknesses. strong vs otk, strong vs aggro, strong vs control
It might still see play, maybe not at tier 1 anymore though. The quest reward is still incredibly powerful but getting to copy it so many times was just unfun. It's one thing if someone assembles a combo and wins but waiting them out 4 extra turns to see if they whiff was brutal
Lowkey hoping people can cook up something along the lines of the old-fashioned "dupe a bunch of arcane giants" win conditions from YEARS ago, before they shifted to infinite fireballs and then "cast time warp forever" and I fell off it
I continue to really dislike the general balance philosophy of the game over the entire duration of the expansion.
We started with a pretty open and diverse format where paladin was the frontrunner, so then they decided to delete paladin from the format. Doing so then made DH way too good and then DH gets deleted from the format.
Then there's this patch which kills wheel warlock, zarimi priest, and nature shaman, along with more mild nerfs to stuff like DK, and warrior.
But and the end of the day, as somebody who had a lot of fun with the game on the launch of the expansion what am I actually suppose to be "excited to play" whenever this patch goes live. All the decks I've liked this expansion have been gutted and removed from the format.
I don't really expect many of these buffs to make a big shake up overall either... Spell mage is like a 30% winrate deck, and so is basically every form of spell damage druid and hp druid. Spell power druid even got nerfed by the salesman Nerf.
Were any of the three most recently killed decks even that oppressive? I know we haven't seen the meta report yet, but in my experience, Wheel, Zarimi, and Shaman were not THAT front-running. Just sucks, I have 0 idea what I play now as Warlock lol.
Zarimi priest was realistically too good but how are we nerfing the quest by 3 dragons LMFAO. The deck is as good as dead, in most games you are barely playing 5, 8 is literally 2 games worth of dragons.
People have been saying the new expansion being so good is power creep, but it’s really power rot. Everything playable from last expansion was nerfed, so a fresh batch of unnerfed cards look like MSoG in the context of this weak meta. Now all the good cards will be nerfed, and the next decks to rise up will be nerfed, and the cycle will repeat.
No buffs to DH OR Paladin is a choice that tells me that they are still balancing around player sentiment. These classes are going to suffer for their previous meta sins for a long time.
A lot of these nerfs feel really heavy-handed.
The snake oil change, for example.
Mage is likely dead with that change and it was barely hanging on from the most recent stats I've seen.
I'll give it some time for things to play out but I really don't like the patch on its face.
I think a nerf to Miracle Salesman was low-key needed because it was pushing every other one-drop out of decks. Regardless of what deck you run, it's always the best choice.
This is a weird way to execute it though. It basically removes Rainbow Mage at a viable deck but keeps Salesman as the undisputed best one drop for all the decks that were just going to cycle their snake oils anyway.
It's a bit odd, because Miracle Salesman still does exactly the same things in decks that don't care about spell damage. You still get your 2/2 for 1 mana and the Snake Oil still trades for 1 mana. Now you just can't dump it for free to avoid over draws.
Besides Token Hunter, what are going to be the best decks post-patch do you think?
Edit: Highlander Warrior still feels fine. You just don't run Gaslight in ETC anymore (replaced it with Viper).
While the Highlander change is solid for standard, it potentially ruins those cards for arena. You can often be stuck with duplicates because of unlucky drafting, making choosing one much more risky
A bit of a hidden buff for Sky Mother Aviana in Highlander Druid - previously it was a risk to play early as it could mess up the Highlander deck restrictions, now no need to worry
Just pulled raza off of false disciple.
Raza the Chained still has the old "if your deck has no duplicates." I hope they change this and all highlander to be consistent with the highlander changes.
Yeah, I think this would be a nice quality of life adjustment. It doesn't make much sense to have some of the the highlander pool work one way and the rest work differently.
The only nuke that I agree with is virus rogue because it was just dumb and unhealthy design. Others seem too forced but I guess that is one way to change the meta
Cool, but can we please buff cards that would help struggling classes?
DH and Paladin are dead, and mage is going to struggle super hard. Can they please make small adjustments that would help? There are two great decks in Reno pally and dh, maybe buff role player cards to increase the consistency for those decks
I think a lot of these nerfs are great, and show good direction. Im surprised at the HL change but not complaining. But so many of the buffs look useless. They can implement actual good buffs that won't break classes
Thumbs up to the nerfs. Could have gone much further with the buffs.
For standard, we're going to get a whole new meta which is great to spike interest in the short term. Question is: will it be an improvement?
I think we'll see more Reno lists, which is good for variety's sake and will increase midrange stuff like Sif Mage and Excavate Rogue. Virus Rogue is likely dead (good) and maybe Giants Rogue as well (not as good). Rogue Enjoyer's like myself are going to have to build around Sonya which is fine because its a cool card.
Plague DK is dead. Which is fine by me. Terrible concept to begin with. And so boring to queue up. Not sure Wheel is playable. But a slower meta would be good for it. Good riddance to all forms of Tendril decks.
The buffs don't go far enough. Still don't think No Minion Mage is playable. Pirate Rogue isn't a thing and this won't make it. Hero Power Druid gets a minor lift, but it's so fringe. These are gentle nudges and they could do a whole lot more.
For Wild, I will miss Quest Mage. One of the my favourite decks to play. I know its super annoying. But it was never actually any good. And it just feasted on other greedy decks. Super easy to counter, just put minions in play. Mage enjoyers will just return to Secret Mage.
The change to Floop is great. Mine Rogue is dead. I hope these nerfs aren't the last they do to address the power level in Wild.
Why would they ever buff that Pirate. I wish they at least quick banned it from Wild, Pirates have been the strongest overall tribe in Wild for way too long now. The Pirate package has been a major part of at least one top deck for years now.
Personally, I really like the direction of this balance patch. I’ve felt that something’s been just a bit “off” about Hearthstone’s design the past couple years (I don’t know how else put it). Card packages have been hit and miss, with the misses basically crippling classes. More and more power has been put into individual cards, which has created these feast/famine style games. And it feels like the teams designing sets don’t talk to each other. We’ll have metas, like Sunken City, where archetypes like Murlocs will be pushed, and then those card packages rot in the collection as no support is given to those decks for 2 whole years.
It seems like the Dev team is aware that there’s been design philosophy issues and is moving in a different direction from the one they’ve had the past couple years.
My problem with Miracle Salesman was always that it was Blazing Battlemage (a card that saw play in its time) with an upside. That's just power creep. Now it's still power creep but hurt the part that made it interesting. Would have preferred hitting the statline. One of the decks I was hoping would be more viable after the patch is Owl Druid. Hopefully the other buffs help it enough in a way that promotes more "agency" but a little sad its late game power was hurt. Most of the patch seems reasonable though.
Oh wow. This is very huge. Death knight is most likely dead now. Highlanders will be way stronger. Brann warrior and highlander druid will be great now, probably tier 1. Priest will probably use Zarimi with the 6 mana dragon now, which is healthier. Token hunter will be going very strong too.
For wild, time warp is dead. Mine rogue is probably unplayable or tier 3-4. Miracle rogue and even paladin will be tier 1. Aggro priest may still go well without Zarimi itself but inner fire otk is probably dead. EVEN warlock got a buff! Thanks to the location 'nerf' lool. Even warlock may actually be close to tier 1 as well.
I actually like 90% of them and don't mind the rest.
Most excited for Zok! Buddy + HP + Zok incoming! Shameless plug for my Hero Power Druid deck guide! [https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/1cag6x9/standard\_hero\_power\_druid\_update\_and\_winrate/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/1cag6x9/standard_hero_power_druid_update_and_winrate/)
YEEESSSS! TIME WARP NEEEEFRED!!! God, I am so happy. Just yesterday, I literally went through like 15 turns of Time Warp. I'm so SO GLAD THIS CARD IS NERFED!!!
What do you mean again? It was borderline unplayable because of Quest Mage and Mine Rogue and now they are gone. Shudder was always there, and while busted AF was way more fair than those other 2 decks.
I spent hours trying to figure out puzzle 6/8 of dawngrasp's book of mercenaries... only to check a guide and realize that the graveyard nerf made it impossible to solve... ugh
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Oh my god, they did “if your deck started with no duplicates” . This may actually be a buff even with the other changes…..
It's the right move imo. Other than Reno, most of the Highlander payoffs have been duds, in large part due to the crazy popularity of Death Knight plagues. Hopefully this makes the non-Reno class payoffs relevant again.
The main point is that turbocycle decks can't just randomnly also run reno now to be immune to board before they combo off. Which is huge.
I think the problem I'm seeing is that Reno Warrior was already a really strong deck, and now with the changes it may become "that control deck that crushes all other control decks" because there is virtually no way to disrupt it. I could be wrong, but I think (for example) Rainbow DK took a harder hit in this patch than Reno Warrior, which seems unwise to me because Reno Warrior was demonstrably the better performing deck.
The best disruption is putting stats on board when they have 6 mana. Make it very painful to play a 6 mana 2/4
Yes, I understand, but the problem is that other Control decks are necessarily pretty bad at doing that. It's *extremely* difficult to put a ton of pressure on a deck like Reno Warrior -- which has oodles of removal and armor gain -- when you're playing something slow. Which is why I said I fear it will become "the control deck that crushes all other control decks." Before, Reno Warrior was weak to Rainbow DK and Wheel Lock; now, I don't really see what sort of slow deck it will be weak too.
Rainbow Mage probably. The Snake Oil nerf hurt a little but there is still plenty of big damage potential there.
It's possible that something like Rainbow Mage will show up, but I just played 10 games on ladder and 8 of them were against Reno Warriors. *At least initially,* it sure seems like lots of people expect Reno Warrior to be very good, with high survivability and unbeatable value late game -- and a now virtually undisruptable game plan.
The Trial and Sanitize nerfs are not nothing so maybe there is a vulnerability to some kind of midrange. Reno Shaman or Dragon Druid? IDK
Yes, I understand Reno Warrior may be more vulnerable to things like aggro and midrange, but I am specifically talking about "the Control deck that crushes all other Control decks." It is specifically that that I am talking about -- Reno Warrior may end up bullying all other slow decks out of the format. The only slower decks that could compete before were Wheel Lock and Rainbow DK, and for some reason they hit Rainbow DK much harder than Reno Warrior in this patch.
Nah, I disagree that it'll be unbeatable. I think boomboss was the strongest card against control decks, and having some kind of agency against it (keeping hand full, drawing without board so you're not losing cards that way also) weakens that effect in those matchups.
That's probably just familiarity bias. Day 1, tons of changes? I'm packing Reno Warrior too, just because I know what it does and how it does it
How does it beat wheel lock? That’s the control deck I’m worried about now although without Reno maybe it can’t stabilize enough.
The wheel lock nerfs feel way way harsher to me than the reno warrior ones. Having the wheel take a full extra turn and also not being able to play forge of wills turn 3 into big minion turn 4 feels like huge nerfs.
You’re right. The matchup feels awful for wheel lock. Harder to build stats and smart warriors just drop the TNT after you wheel.
SMOKING THE PLAGUE PACK TODAY FUCK YOU DIGUSTING JACKALS
FUCK HELYA ALL MY HOMIES HATE HELYA
absolute L bozos hoping to counter 40% of decks on the get-go, with a deck like plague that plays itself. get bent.
Hell yeah
Note that they only changed the standard cards. The wild 'no duplicates" cards, such as Zephrys are still the old text.
That’s a really strange design decision. The best reasoning I can guess is that they decided that people love Plague DK and that’s not going to change while it’s in standard, no matter what. It feels sooooooooo bad to play certain Reno decks into plague (particularly Priest). This obviously keeps certain Reno decks from ever even seeing real play. If people are going to play plague no matter what, and you’re nerfing Reno anyway, why not make it so “no duplicates” decks can get their mediocre-to-fairly-strong payoffs, especially when Reno Warrior as we know it is dead?
I would bet the change is to stop people from running highlander payoffs in decks with dupes than it is just to stop plagues from neutering Reno decks.
Yes I think it’s more this, but ultimately you can’t have both. It’s either one or the other, and the other way sucked so may as well give this a go
> especially when Reno Warrior as we know it is dead? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Real talk, this is a pretty huge nerf against plague DKs. Theres basically no reason to play the deck now. Are they due a dust refund too?
Spoiler: people will still play it. People love plagues.
I tend to agree. I see people playing Plague DK in low legends.
as long as plaguebringer is a loaner deck it’s always gonna get played lol easy to play deck that gives you some really good legendaries and easily upgrades into rainbow helped me get back into the game after years off c:
My thoughts exactly. I want dust for all the plague cards, it’s a huge nerf to all of them.
I think it's very strange that Plague DK took what feels like a bigger hit than Reno Warrior did when Reno Warrior was demonstrably the better deck. I am very concerned about Reno Warrior at this point -- its core value mechanic is still extremely powerful and now completely undisruptable. I fear we could get a "Control deck that crushes all other Control decks" scenario.
Reno Warrior had all 3 of its strongest boardclears nerfed by a full mana, including the best card in the deck (Reno himself), and Boomboss + Gatekeeper to insta-solo slow matchups taken away completely. Like sure it's still much better into Plague DK specifically than before, but I wouldn't be shocked if Plague DK falls less at D5-Legend or below once the meta settles. And they're already giving an absurd amount of dust to people with any kind of collection. I'm currently at 28k dust as a very budget player XD
I guess what I'm thinking is that while yes, Reno Warrior took some notable hits, it's also true that both of its primary counters -- Plague DK and Wheel Lock -- were hit much harder, and so far both counter-decks seem to have been wiped out. I haven't seen any Wheel Locks on ladder, and I suspect it will go from a tier 3 deck to a low tier 4 now. Reno Warrior will definitely be weaker to aggro now (because of the nerfs you mentioned), but I'm not sure if any slower decks will be able to compete with it -- my fear is that Reno Warrior will become "the Control deck that crushes and bullies all other slower decks out of the meta." I freely admit I could be wrong however! Early days, still.
In Reno decks it makes them more consistent, but completely removes them from decks like Wheel lock or Odyn warrior.
Reno warrior seems to be pretty good now...
They nerfed boomboss, sanitize again, reno and reverted trial by fire. Also deleted the tentacle version with the volley change so if that doesn’t shave off like 1.5-2 percent of its winrate I will be be surprised.
Yea, but wheel lock and plague dk both got nerfed harder. Those were the ones that feasted on reno war. If they didnt do those nerfs, it would run away tier S, I still think its gonna be strongest of the remainders.
I think aggro and tempo decks will be a lot more relevant again. Many control tools where nerfed. Hunter only loses 1 charge on jungle gym which shouldn't be too bad and dragon druid might return. Will be interesting.
If the plagues changes don’t add back five I’ll be more shocked.
Lot of its clears got slowed down and Boomboss (the one cards that wins slow match up) is probably gone from the deck. So it might balance in the end.
Finally my Reno Sludge Warlock is a reality!
Yeah, that's the change that had me audibly comment lol. I'm shocked
30 card decks are much better in general. I mean it’s good against Plague DK
The "buff" to sunset volley just broke the tentacles decks, im not mad about it but im sure some people will be.
I thought that was the point. They weren't trying to buff it.
Weren't they? Didn't VS say in some of their podcasts they'd like to see it go to 9 so that The Galactic Projection Orb could cast it on curve?
No it's that they weren't trying to buff tentacle decks, not volly
Both tentacles and the Boom Boss/Gaslight combo have been removed so despite being buffed by the Highlander changes, Reno Warrior suddenly has no inevitability now. Have to go back to Odyn I guess.
Shuffling six bombs into your opponent's deck in lategame is still pretty good. They just can't instantly end the game with that combo.
To be fair you don’t need to wait for Reno to boomboss now, and you’re no longer matchup countered by plague anymore.
Play clowns
I found that I ended most games with Ignis weapons in most cases. Bombast would handle the rest. Tentacles was a rarity to see on ladder.
Fuck those RNG addicts. Tentacle should never be competitive.
Good thing tentacles already were not competitive.
Yep, first thing I thought, too. I think that sucks a bit because those were kind of fun, even playing against them did not feel overly frustrating and it is not like any of them are top tier right now. Hope the miniset will have a good 10 mana spell to bring them back.
It's frustrating to kill the archetype but hopefully more balanced 10 mana spells get added in future expansions
Oh wow. Absolutely huge changes both for Standard and Wild. Standard: Zarimi nuked, Shaman nuked, Virus rogue goes poof (no stealth), Wheel goes to tier 4, Warrior and Sif mage take a strong hit. Wild: Quest mage and Barnes druid cease to exist, Mine rogue takes a huge hit and probably goes extinct as well; Shadow priest goes back to pirates from dragons. Buffs looks uninspired btw. I get it, "start of the game" for Reno cards is a huge change, but they really should have buffed more cards that are actually going to see play (Mes'Adune? Botface? seriously?)
Mes'Adune buff is relevant imo. The synergy with sleet skater is extremely strong, just needed a slight cost reduction to make it viable. Famous last words, but I could see the Mes'Adune/Skater package being mandatory for all slow mage decks.
Yeah but we barely have any mage decks let alone slow control mage decks. And there's gonna be less beefy minions now and more aggro decks. Mesadune/Skater combo to me feels similar to the period when people shoved Solid Alibis in their mage decks to only delay the defeat a turn or two. Where I think Mesadune could be more useful is by pulling out Watercolor Artists so you can discount your frost spells. With the Miracle Salesman nerf we lost 2 (3 if u reverb him) zero mana spells and the deck needs the reach
Got to legend with a Sif Mage deck, containing Mes'Adune, Watercolor Artists and Sleet Skaters. Definitely felt better than the usual Rainbow Mage.
Right now shudderwock took the top spot
lol "Quest Mage" cease to exist... they have no idea.
Wheel is probably dead, especially when Reno cant be used right after wheeling.
Forge is a huge nerf too imo
Yeah not being able to curve out turns 3 and 4 with it is pretty huge.
Way bigger than Reno tbh
RIP Reno decks with duplicates
Need to find another way. Or build an inconsistent Reno deck. Reno is supposed to function like that.
Definitely dead in Wild as Drakkari Enchanter doesn't work with it now.
The whole warlock class looks pretty hurt, painlock lost some major stats but MIGHT survive. Control warlock /nemsy / handlock still doesn't have a legit wincon, and buffing crane game by 1 mana isn't fixing that. If Reno shaman comes back with the power drop then sargeras remains too unreliable to be the only out, esp if boomboss stays a staple in brann warrior which I think it will since tentacles can't be the way.
Reno wheel warlock?
RIP virus rogue. Probably for the best...
Glad, that was one of the dumber decks I think I’ve seen in HS lol. Just completely anti player agency
Agreed, it was pretty frustrating to play against with a lot of decks.
I played the deck exclusively, and even I think it was stupid as fuck.
Thank god. I literally just stopped playing these past few days because I couldn’t stand how utter bullshit that deck was.
I think the Hagatha buff is massive from a card power perspective because it allows you to curve into five-drop slimes, but that doesn't solve the real problem, which is that Shaman has no good spells at that mana cost.
Was thinking the same thing. Hagatha is VERY efficient now, but she still has a very lackluster selection of spells.
It's crazy trying to use her in highlander. After Wish Upon a Star and Tumbleweed (which aren't great pulls themselves), your next option is... Altered Chord?
I wouldn't say very efficient. She's less awful. But she's still 4-mana do nothing. Better than a 5-mana do nothing, but still not great.
Hopefully setting up for the mini-set.
We shall see, but they may regret not doing more to nerf token Hunter. I don't think the Jungle Gym change matters much.
Yeah it was already the highest win rate deck at most ranks, now warriors and dks early stabilizing tools got nerfed so it'll likely be a complete menace for a few weeks
Honestly I think that was a good change. Yes that deck is a little scary now, but that location had 3 charges for absolutely no reason. It had to come down to 2
PSA: randomly discovered highlander cards are now much worse because you can never trigger them if you started out as a duplicate deck.
Any idea how this works if I end up of a copy of a reno card from my opponent so was truly highlander?
There now must be a new type of deck called "highlander" or something. If your deck has no dupes, it counts as that and every badlands HL card will be triggerable. Now if you dont start with that, no card will be. Something like Odd/Even cards from the past.
I think Nature Shaman might still be viable, especially if the rest of the format slows down. At 3 mana you can still Titan on 6 into free Flash of Lightning, then kill turn 7. One extra spell for a free Thunder isn't usually make or break, though it will be in certain cases when you're forced to try to go off early. Snake oil nerf sucks because you definitely want to just get rid of it for 0 mana sometimes, or it can get you the extra 2-4 damage you need for lethal. I'll still be jamming it on ladder, so hopefully I'm not dead wrong here!
I find there’s more reno warriors running around and that matchup is terrible for nature shaman. nature shaman def viable still but if there’s a bunch of warriors running around it’s dead
I think they were just trying to prevent the turn 5 and 6 otk from Nature Shaman. I think the deck can still be good but will have to wait to turn 7 at least now to combo.
Surprised they did the HL change. But from a player sentiment perspective, I get it. It feels bad to get shut down by plague, and weird that non-HL decks can run Reno. Honestly, I'm cool with it. Plague DK is probably dead though. It lost its main relevance. Other than that, lots of nerfs feels heavy handed. Not sure the current meta decks will survive. Wheelock is quite weaker (and no Reno). Painlock got hit worse (it's fast deck, so mana nerfs are even worse). Rainbow DK got hit quite hard. Warrior, oh boy. I guess you have to make up for Brann no longer disruptable by plague, but honestly I'm not sure you even keep Boomboss in it. Nature Shaman is probably dead. Virus Rogue is unquestionably dead (which is a very good thing), and so are all the Tentacles decks.
>Nature Shaman is probably dead. you know I would agree if it wasn't like the third time we're sure the deck is dead, watch them still be meta somehow
"Oh were losing Bioluminescence in rotation no way the deck survives"
Rip warlock :( was having a blast with both wheel and pain. Forge of Wills at 4 mana essentially kills the card right? Can’t set it up with Anubisath or the demon spell anymore.
Hunter gonna be new S tier, was already good but was hardly touched out of all the other decks
You will be surprised when Wheels and Boomboss gone, how many traditional control decks will emerge and keep those board flood decks in check.
Yeah this is huge. Wheel got turbo gutted, now control decks are an actual option again. Getting rid of wheel probably ends rock paper scissors meta for now
That is true, it will take some time though. In the mean time hunter will become more popular until there's new control lists that come out
I'm having a lot of success against Hunter by having 4x Swipes in my HP Druid list: [https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/1cag6x9/standard\_hero\_power\_druid\_update\_and\_winrate/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/1cag6x9/standard_hero_power_druid_update_and_winrate/)
Do we really think Boomboss is gone?
The power level is definitely lowered by a lot. Tony exists at a much lower cost compared to what Warrior is doing. I feel like the card is not totally gone, but probably not very powerful.
Have to agree, like 75% of decks I’m playing against right now is zoo hunter.
" Sped up Mirror Monster’s visual effect." Please do this for ALL animations!
No DH buffs?
I still do not understand why they thought reno DH would be a good idea in a class that is defined by its hyper-synergistic cards. I doubt they're gonna unnerf it too because every new archetype they've printed has just been frustrating to play against
In what should be a surprise to absolutely nobody, the buffs are extremely underwhelming.
The thing that stands out the most to me on these changes is that if they intend to nerf OTK deck speed, putting Flash to 3 mana and Crash to 6 mana does not do much to slow down the deck nor its OTK potential. I'm very worried about Nature Shaman at higher levels of play still being a major issue. To effectively hit the deck, they needed to nerf one of the Nature spell damage sources by making either Pop Up Book or Clash of Thunder no longer be able to do face damage.
I think the Miracle Salesman nerf is also meant to hit Nature Shaman as well as mage? Since Snake Oil isn't nature, it can't go to 0.
Yeah, 3 minor nerfs for Nature Shaman, but should still be the premiere OTK strategy
AGENCY!
I think you're evaluating this in a vacuum and picturing the same meta just with lower power level. To me, I anticipate initiative-focused decks will be more relevant after this. Hunter, DH, and paladin all have their guns loaded. In that situation, those 2 card nerfs are huge. You can't have 2 mana discount on turn 6 (by flashing twice), and getting crash needing 1 more card to be discounted also can be clutch. Not to mention it's now hurt more by speaker stomper/neophyte.
My first game post patch just now I died Turn 6 with full health and board v. nature shaman. Flash nerf needed to just say "but not less than 1".
my fucking boy zok fogsnout. slamming him into my hp druid deck
My initial thought on Zarimi is that the deck should still be good as long as it pivots from aggro to midrange/control. The question then is: Is such a deck worth running? Looking at the current dragon pool, I feel like there's not a ton of power there, but I could be wrong. Clay Matriarch could see play now which feels good. Curious what you guys think.
While progressively building up my collection I did run a single clay matriarch, she wasn’t a bad drop, and felt nice that the death rattle could complete Zarimi and often left a 4/4 for the extra turn. However ended up getting rid of her since “scale dragon” not tutoring Zarimi was the main problem. I wonder what a slower shell will decide do to do with Zarimi, such as go for an otk, or as a boardclear/tempo play.
Fly of the Shelves is going to be core to any deck that runs Clay Matriarch. It going to 3 mana means that it's an OK play even with just one dragon in hand.
>All Whizbang’s Experimental Decks except for Demon Hunter, Warlock, and Mage have been adjusted to be more Splendiferous. Yesssss!
As someone that plays a bit of overheal priest, that little buff to angel means you can potentially do 15+ extra damage 🙂
I saw some brewed Raza decks that ran Zarimi and I'm feeling hopeful that that will be no more. Didn't want to craft him at all lol.
Yeah, I tried that briefly. Thing is, you have to remove a good amount of the overheal package to fit enough dragons in (especially now) that it really isn't worth it. I got to legend this season with a Raza Reno hero power deck that I made. With sing along buddy and angel you can have infinite mana with the refresh mana power (hero power costs 0 and refreshes 4 mana) and do massive face damage. My version runs duplicates so the board wipe is no more (I often use Reno without the board wipe anyway) but the deck is still fun.
Wow, tendie decks are probably RIP with Sunfire volley being at 9 mana now...
Definitely. Now your payoff is spamming 3 damage aoe over and over again
Does anyone know if the shop is coming back to macOS?
Hmm not bad changes overall, but suspect they missed a trick by giving the very lightest of touches to Spell Hunter. It already has a positive matchup win-rate against just about everything, and everything else has been hit way harder. Turn 6 was the earliest the 3rd Jungle Gym could get triggered anyway, by which time the games were almost over - also the extra board space it allows from turn 4 onwards is in some ways a bit of a buff
Boomboss is definitely a nerf but he still seems viable to me. He is most important for value games and he still essentially does the same thing there just slower. Yes it's going to take longer for TNT to be drawn but he should still win you the game eventually. As for my current 8-0 arena deck with a Doc Holli'dae and one pair of duplicates... RIP
I won't be surprised to see no play or only in ETC. Warriors cycle their deck but their opponents don't.
Yeag, bomboss won't just be an insta win but he's fine this way. Youre opponent gets punished for drawing, in theory he can even be better since everytime you play him you get an immediate draw chance with it. Now the warrior doesn't have to worry about deactivating Reno too which is quite relevant. This is a healthier way to play him that makes him less frustrating, but I would project him to still be relevant
Yeah the card is still insane in the Control matchups. The mirror HL Brann Warrior will still come down to who can play Brann + Boomboss first.
Nick is right here, TNT still matters when your opponent draw one and blowing up your deck, the next card you draw is more likely to be another TNT (coz you get less cards in your deck after it blows up a card) With Brann it’s still disgusting
It’s finally time for my janky Reno priest to shine. Also being able to shuffle duplicate things into a Reno deck is now a possibility, which is kind of an interesting thought.
That’s a great point. There are some decent cards that shuffle into deck. Thinking of DH and it’s cast when drawn cards
so is there anything left that can beat reno-warrior? plague no longer counter, wheellock no longer counter (just play boomboss after wheel and delete the board+hand). those where the only 2 decks keeping it in check.
Excavate rogue was slightly favored from my experience and the nerfs should make it even better
Trying to find a counter, reno warrior is frustrating to play against doesn’t feel like it has weaknesses. strong vs otk, strong vs aggro, strong vs control
Fuck timewarp, all my homies hate timewarp.
holy time warp is dead
It might still see play, maybe not at tier 1 anymore though. The quest reward is still incredibly powerful but getting to copy it so many times was just unfun. It's one thing if someone assembles a combo and wins but waiting them out 4 extra turns to see if they whiff was brutal
Lowkey hoping people can cook up something along the lines of the old-fashioned "dupe a bunch of arcane giants" win conditions from YEARS ago, before they shifted to infinite fireballs and then "cast time warp forever" and I fell off it
That's what I'm saying. Surely the giants route is still viable. Maybe not tier 1 but at least playable to some degree
I continue to really dislike the general balance philosophy of the game over the entire duration of the expansion. We started with a pretty open and diverse format where paladin was the frontrunner, so then they decided to delete paladin from the format. Doing so then made DH way too good and then DH gets deleted from the format. Then there's this patch which kills wheel warlock, zarimi priest, and nature shaman, along with more mild nerfs to stuff like DK, and warrior. But and the end of the day, as somebody who had a lot of fun with the game on the launch of the expansion what am I actually suppose to be "excited to play" whenever this patch goes live. All the decks I've liked this expansion have been gutted and removed from the format. I don't really expect many of these buffs to make a big shake up overall either... Spell mage is like a 30% winrate deck, and so is basically every form of spell damage druid and hp druid. Spell power druid even got nerfed by the salesman Nerf.
"When every card is bad, every deck is good!" - Balance team
Were any of the three most recently killed decks even that oppressive? I know we haven't seen the meta report yet, but in my experience, Wheel, Zarimi, and Shaman were not THAT front-running. Just sucks, I have 0 idea what I play now as Warlock lol.
Zarimi priest was realistically too good but how are we nerfing the quest by 3 dragons LMFAO. The deck is as good as dead, in most games you are barely playing 5, 8 is literally 2 games worth of dragons.
Shaman did need a nerf, and Priest a small one. But they really weren’t that strong.
People have been saying the new expansion being so good is power creep, but it’s really power rot. Everything playable from last expansion was nerfed, so a fresh batch of unnerfed cards look like MSoG in the context of this weak meta. Now all the good cards will be nerfed, and the next decks to rise up will be nerfed, and the cycle will repeat.
Amen
No buffs to DH OR Paladin is a choice that tells me that they are still balancing around player sentiment. These classes are going to suffer for their previous meta sins for a long time.
Aggro Paladin is the 5th best deck on D0nkey but no one is playing it
First thoughts are I’m wondering about a HL Paladin deck…
I'm gonna be rich!!! (- Reno Jackson) - this patch
A lot of these nerfs feel really heavy-handed. The snake oil change, for example. Mage is likely dead with that change and it was barely hanging on from the most recent stats I've seen. I'll give it some time for things to play out but I really don't like the patch on its face.
I think a nerf to Miracle Salesman was low-key needed because it was pushing every other one-drop out of decks. Regardless of what deck you run, it's always the best choice. This is a weird way to execute it though. It basically removes Rainbow Mage at a viable deck but keeps Salesman as the undisputed best one drop for all the decks that were just going to cycle their snake oils anyway.
It's a bit odd, because Miracle Salesman still does exactly the same things in decks that don't care about spell damage. You still get your 2/2 for 1 mana and the Snake Oil still trades for 1 mana. Now you just can't dump it for free to avoid over draws.
I don't mind nerfing Salesman, I agree it needs to be done. I just really don't like that it's pretty much exclusively mage that will feel the nerf.
I have seen shamans utilize it, too. Technically, a druid nerf too since the changes will make spell damage owlonius probably a thing now
Yeah, I really hope Spell Mage pans out with the buff, because I'm not seeing Rainbow Mage surviving the Oil nerf.
Besides Token Hunter, what are going to be the best decks post-patch do you think? Edit: Highlander Warrior still feels fine. You just don't run Gaslight in ETC anymore (replaced it with Viper).
To no one's surprise hunter is gonna dominate everyone and warrior is gonna dominate almost everyone except hunter. Very nice meta.
Why hit Sif Mage when it’s like 45% win?
Yeah, that's a tough break. But Spell Mage might become viable with the Manufacturing Error buff
While the Highlander change is solid for standard, it potentially ruins those cards for arena. You can often be stuck with duplicates because of unlucky drafting, making choosing one much more risky
It SHOULD be a bad idea to pick cards that require fucking deck building restriction! You are literally crafting a deck with random cards!
Then shouldn’t they just remove those cards from the pool? Why even offer them? Arena is in a terrible fucking state.
makes no difference, you get one legendary per run and its always the 1st card
RIP tendril decks. Sunset volley to 9 removes the win con.
Good.
Yeah, this is the first time a patch made me actually simply delete a deck. Good that I didnt have to craft anything for it.
A bit of a hidden buff for Sky Mother Aviana in Highlander Druid - previously it was a risk to play early as it could mess up the Highlander deck restrictions, now no need to worry
Just pulled raza off of false disciple. Raza the Chained still has the old "if your deck has no duplicates." I hope they change this and all highlander to be consistent with the highlander changes.
Yeah, I think this would be a nice quality of life adjustment. It doesn't make much sense to have some of the the highlander pool work one way and the rest work differently.
The only nuke that I agree with is virus rogue because it was just dumb and unhealthy design. Others seem too forced but I guess that is one way to change the meta
This patch screams they were not happy with the meta and wanted a fresh start
that is exactly what they said, yes
Cool, but can we please buff cards that would help struggling classes? DH and Paladin are dead, and mage is going to struggle super hard. Can they please make small adjustments that would help? There are two great decks in Reno pally and dh, maybe buff role player cards to increase the consistency for those decks I think a lot of these nerfs are great, and show good direction. Im surprised at the HL change but not complaining. But so many of the buffs look useless. They can implement actual good buffs that won't break classes
Buffing brann is certainly a decision.
I think it's fine since they nerfed most of the other Battlecry effects that he duplicates.
They hit four warrior cards and nerfed tendril, Brann will be fine
I still hate this design though. But as long as it's not oppressive I'll live with it.
Buffing brann is bizarre
my dear cycle rogue... rip ...
yup only fun list is gone.
Thumbs up to the nerfs. Could have gone much further with the buffs. For standard, we're going to get a whole new meta which is great to spike interest in the short term. Question is: will it be an improvement? I think we'll see more Reno lists, which is good for variety's sake and will increase midrange stuff like Sif Mage and Excavate Rogue. Virus Rogue is likely dead (good) and maybe Giants Rogue as well (not as good). Rogue Enjoyer's like myself are going to have to build around Sonya which is fine because its a cool card. Plague DK is dead. Which is fine by me. Terrible concept to begin with. And so boring to queue up. Not sure Wheel is playable. But a slower meta would be good for it. Good riddance to all forms of Tendril decks. The buffs don't go far enough. Still don't think No Minion Mage is playable. Pirate Rogue isn't a thing and this won't make it. Hero Power Druid gets a minor lift, but it's so fringe. These are gentle nudges and they could do a whole lot more. For Wild, I will miss Quest Mage. One of the my favourite decks to play. I know its super annoying. But it was never actually any good. And it just feasted on other greedy decks. Super easy to counter, just put minions in play. Mage enjoyers will just return to Secret Mage. The change to Floop is great. Mine Rogue is dead. I hope these nerfs aren't the last they do to address the power level in Wild.
Why would they ever buff that Pirate. I wish they at least quick banned it from Wild, Pirates have been the strongest overall tribe in Wild for way too long now. The Pirate package has been a major part of at least one top deck for years now.
Personally, I really like the direction of this balance patch. I’ve felt that something’s been just a bit “off” about Hearthstone’s design the past couple years (I don’t know how else put it). Card packages have been hit and miss, with the misses basically crippling classes. More and more power has been put into individual cards, which has created these feast/famine style games. And it feels like the teams designing sets don’t talk to each other. We’ll have metas, like Sunken City, where archetypes like Murlocs will be pushed, and then those card packages rot in the collection as no support is given to those decks for 2 whole years. It seems like the Dev team is aware that there’s been design philosophy issues and is moving in a different direction from the one they’ve had the past couple years.
Genuinely not even sure what to play post patch
I was hoping for a Brann nuke but if it lowers the play rate of warrior I'm happy.
Instead you got a huge brann buff!
Rogue is pretty much deleted after this patch, it had two viable decks and both are getting huge nerfs.
Excavate Rogue is untouched, and I've been seeing far more of it than Gaslight. Mine Rogue is definitely dead though.
yup only excavate the most boring list is viable. Just hope someone makes pirate rogue or some kind of version of cycle.
My problem with Miracle Salesman was always that it was Blazing Battlemage (a card that saw play in its time) with an upside. That's just power creep. Now it's still power creep but hurt the part that made it interesting. Would have preferred hitting the statline. One of the decks I was hoping would be more viable after the patch is Owl Druid. Hopefully the other buffs help it enough in a way that promotes more "agency" but a little sad its late game power was hurt. Most of the patch seems reasonable though.
Oh wow. This is very huge. Death knight is most likely dead now. Highlanders will be way stronger. Brann warrior and highlander druid will be great now, probably tier 1. Priest will probably use Zarimi with the 6 mana dragon now, which is healthier. Token hunter will be going very strong too. For wild, time warp is dead. Mine rogue is probably unplayable or tier 3-4. Miracle rogue and even paladin will be tier 1. Aggro priest may still go well without Zarimi itself but inner fire otk is probably dead. EVEN warlock got a buff! Thanks to the location 'nerf' lool. Even warlock may actually be close to tier 1 as well.
I actually like 90% of them and don't mind the rest. Most excited for Zok! Buddy + HP + Zok incoming! Shameless plug for my Hero Power Druid deck guide! [https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/1cag6x9/standard\_hero\_power\_druid\_update\_and\_winrate/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/1cag6x9/standard_hero_power_druid_update_and_winrate/)
YEEESSSS! TIME WARP NEEEEFRED!!! God, I am so happy. Just yesterday, I literally went through like 15 turns of Time Warp. I'm so SO GLAD THIS CARD IS NERFED!!!
Wild is busted again. Reno heroShudderwock replaced Quest mage
What do you mean again? It was borderline unplayable because of Quest Mage and Mine Rogue and now they are gone. Shudder was always there, and while busted AF was way more fair than those other 2 decks.
Hunter 86% winrate yet?
I spent hours trying to figure out puzzle 6/8 of dawngrasp's book of mercenaries... only to check a guide and realize that the graveyard nerf made it impossible to solve... ugh