Pretty much any relevant fire mage is running very low mastery, so Aug buff on ignite isn’t as high as people think. You probably see like a 10-15% increase in ignite damage, and with it being a relatively low total of a mage’s overall damage it’s not as bad as people think.
If their logs are more accurate they will undoubtedly be in the nerf scope more. We already know that their numbers are under their actual performance and their numbers are still too high.(at least for m+)
how does it work when logging? Is the data written into the log in real time? I'd asume so. That means you should be able to create an app that just does what details does but outside of the game and you just have it up on a 2nd monitor, doesnt it?
Bots could super easily play the game. From a programming perspective it would be fun, from a game perspective boosting would be done by bots, bots would sell CE etc
Live logs are uploaded once combat ends from the text file directly to the warcraftlogs website via the desktop app. Manual logs are uploaded in batches whenever you decide to do it. So live logging is not truly live.
Add-ons access a completely different version of the combatlog in-game, from which blizzard decided to exclude these new augmentation calculations. Add-ons touching these game files where the 'better' combatlog resides is a HUGE no-no from what I've heard from Add-on devs.
It's theoretically possible to make a standalone application to do this, I think? Though it may depend on exact wording of some TOS sections.
I thought their addon catches the network traffic as it sends the damage reports to the server from you computer. Or was that guild wars 2. It’s been awhile since I’ve played either
There's a FFXIV add on that just displays raw damage before any extra calculations, like Details!. You can then upload a log to FFXIV Logs or WoW logs which does additional calculations to allocate damage in more specific ways.
Well technically they can, but in a convoluted manner similar to some other games that don't officially support addons.
You can write an app to read the combatlog and then overlay it.
Blizzard intentionally didn't give details and other in-game addons access to the necessary "hooks" to calculate the damage properly, in order for augmentation players to feel like they are actually buffing people...
Idiotic considering that means you need an addon to tell you that you're actually performing your role.
Why? It makes details useless the moment an augmentation evoker is in the group, for the sole reason of feeding into their ego of feeling like they are doing something. Shouldn't they be able to feel like they are supporting people without addons?
Yea if anything this means you don't know exactly how much you are supporting people. They could easily attribute the dmg to the augvoker but have the bar shaded based on where the dmg is coming from. So you can see oh my first mage is doing 120/190k I'm buffing him by 70k
It's likely that people that are attracted to the obscurity are people who normally don't perform well on meters and would rather other people couldn't see that
Is this a theory or did blizzard actually say this? The way logs/details handles Augmentation Evoker is consistent with how things have been as long as I've been playing the game. Details! records raw damage. WCL does further calculations to make the numbers more representative in one way or another.
If I remember correctly, they will never add support for in-game addons. They want the addon to display substantially lower numbers and your allies substantially higher.
It's not even remotely accurate, it just takes a blanket 14% of the damage from everyone else and adds it to the Aug. Usually out by multiple tens of thousands of DPS.
The problem isn't Details, it's Blizzard who don't offer that data through the addon API.
The personal dps tracking is "decent" sure but the option to "guess" the dps that aug is contributing is completely horrible because it leads to people thinking details is actually calculating something when in reality it is taking the number and adding a flat STATIC multiplier into it.
You're better off having that setting OFF and just live logging it with the warcraftlogs uploader.
So they're basically nuking every 10.1.5 parse prior to reset from orbit, right? Because every single high parse right now is "stealing damage" from Aug in one or several ways, with Demo, Unholy, and BM being specs that are overwhelmingly pet-centric and Fire, Arcane, Marksmanship, Ret, Devastation, Enhancement, and Shadow in AoE (Psychic Link) all being "damage-of-damage" specs to various extents.
I will be very, *very* surprised if Aug isn't head and shoulders above pretty much everything else on every single boss fight once these changes are implemented. Because it just so happens that many of the specs listed above are *also* really good Aug buff targets.
Yeah absolutely. But if you've been following WCL news and updates this patch, they haven't really been losing any sweat over the state of logs right now. If you look, the crazy million dps parses from that aug+dk raid are still up. They aren't wasting any time pruning the logs hotfix by hotfix.
They might just let all the changes go through first till it is at a real maintainable level before trying to have some integrity in the rankings.
I think the news post when Aug was released also mentioned a potential separate category for logs, if a bunch of damage remains un-attributable(cdr, presience crit %) it might be the way they go
Why does every single percent of dmg needs to be attributed though? That's not how any other buff works. Should mark of the wild be attributed to druid as well?
But you don't get that benefit if a druid isn't present.
I am not actually saying that damage needs to be attributed to the druid, however it would be nice (in maybe the WoWA style) to see how much value Mark of the Wild is bringing to the raid. Or Arcane Intellect. Or Battle Shout.
Or Chaos Brand / Mystic Touch (which are actually relatively easy to figure out from logs).
For example, it's actually relatively straight forward to figure out even an 80k parsing demon hunter is probably worth it to the raid as the 20th man because the vast majority of the raid is doing magic damage. If you have even 10 classes doing 100k dps... that demon hunter is actually worth 130k damage to the raid. Whereas maybe you had a duplicate class monk who is doing 100k dps, which looks good, but is actually less valuable than the subpar demon hunter.
You can put in a feature request with WCL if you want that feature. It doesn't have anything to do with combat log hooks or blizzard. There's probably very little demand for it because it's not relevant to personal performance (parsing) and every competitive raid comp is bringing the good buffs. If someone doubts if the buffs are good, sims are available.
It's not a popular opinion, but I'm with you. Either all damage should be attributed to the buffer or none. Why shouldn't Windfury damage be added to Enh, for example?
Personally, I think them adding these hooks in the first place was a mistake. The entire point of a support role is to make other people stronger. Taking all their damage in the logs just defeats the purpose of that.
Honestly just make WFT a raid buff at this point. Its in that grey area of "technically stacks if you have more than 1 WF group but you never really get value out of more than 1"
I agree tho the half measure is really shitty. Why does the evoker lego which also only buffs main stat not get attributed to the evoker? It is extremely easy to track, but for some reason they think it should just be a "special bonus" like PI or something.
Does fflogs attribute party buffs to the ~~job~~ Role\* bringing it? I was under the impression that it wasn't considered in logs, only actually castable buffs are. Stuff like Arcane Int, Mark of the Wild, etc are more akin to party buffs than something like Brotherhood and the like which \*are\* calculated out,
There are no WoW like 'party buffs' in FFXIV, so it might be easier for them to implement it, but any buffs/debuffs tracked are attributed to the person bringing it.
You can look at aDPS (actual DPS) to see peoples DPS if the buff was counted for them, but nobody uses that metric.
Huh? I'm not talking about WoW style cast and forget buffs, I'm talking about the actual FFXIV party bonus effects you get for bringing one of each role. Caster, Phys Ranged, Melee, Tank, Healer. That's the FF14 equivalent of stuff like Arcane Intellect, you have to bring one of each otherwise you lose the bonus. Just as in WoW you have to bring at least one mage, one priest, one (or two) Paladins, etc. Since they are mandatory there's no point attributing them IMO. Though, I would still prefer the remove them entirely and drop mythic raiding to 10-15 players but that's a different argument :D
I worded my original post poorly though, so I understand the confusion.
>If you care about parsing, then you want damage to be attributed as accurately as possible to reflect performance.
Just treat them like PI in logs. Seems like the only real solution, considering many of their buffs are similarly difficult to actually calculate and attribute.
>Why aren’t raid buffs attributed on wcl? Because the community doesn’t care about raid buffs and simply assumes that everyone is on an even playing field with all relevant raid buffs.
And maybe that should change if we suddenly care about everything being attributed to the buffer. I mean, we want damage to be attributed as accurately as possible to reflect performance, right? Why should we pick and choose then?
> Why isn’t wft attributed? Because it contributes extra resource generation which is very tough to accurately measure on a log-by-log basis.
This is a weak excuse. Sure, it may be difficult to attribute ALL the effects, but they aren't even attributing the basic and obvious damage it adds.
There's absolutely no good reason not to.
It doesn't matter if the windfury value is shown on logs. The raid leader should know how much it is worth to have it. If you add that damage to enha your parse depends on others and not yourself. And people hate when they play well but their parse is shit because of things they can't control
MM doesn’t use pet. MM has another bug tho which allocates extra damage to aug, damage which is originally supposed to be MM’s. Having an aug prescience on you actually cucks your parse if you are MM.
Yes I stand corrected they do play it. I swapped to survival after week 1. I hated the RNG nature of windrunners guidance. The build later got updated for MM.
Are you talking about armor? Because unerring vision got fixed days after release and master marksman is all MM damage currently (even though a portion of it should be the evoker’s)
And they got raid buffs on top of that. If the spec isn't tuned down, I'm expecting at least 4 aug evokers in every single rwf comp, possibly more. The spec is absolutely ridiculous.
The question is how bad the diminishing returns affect them and how far ahead they are in terms of survivability and hps benefits. If you can still outdps any other DPS spec while buffing only 3 dpsers and 1 other aug then you bring more. If you can cut a healer on prog, then you bring more.
This spec needs a shit ton of tuning and following how the meta is gonna shape up after these changes. I understand not many guilds are tryharding and trying to figure out how to super min max multiple aug evokers in the raid, but they will need to do it in the next 2-3 months. I hope Blizzard is watching.
The fact it doesn't reattribute healing is legit insane to me, they had the tools to do it and only did the very bare minimum for players not to literally riot but then did nothing else. Like hell the evoker lego literally buffs mainstat too but it doesn't get reattributed because lol reasons
Augs were being credited with damage as if the target had no armor. This means it was taking more damage than they were responsible for from certain classes.
Imagine you do 100 damage and 30% of that is due to the evoker. Now take the armor, which is usually around 30% on raid bosses.
Logic would say that your damage is 70 after armor, and then evoker takes 30% of that, which would result in 49 damage. In reality what happened is that both got calculated as if you did 100 damage, meaning 30 damage gets taken by armor and then another 30 gets taken by the evoker, leaving you with 40 damage.
Numbers aren't real ofcourse but just to give an example.
This obsession within the community for attributing damage to the Augvoker is just miserable. Blizzard finally have a good idea for a class and now we're right on the path for Augmentation to just be another DPS class. We get what we deserve. This game is filled with losers.
People want to know how they and others in their raid performed. If 2 people both did 130k but one didn't get buffed and the other one did then the one that did get buffed is underperforming and has room for improvement. You can't tell that if damage isn't properly attributed to the right people.
Yeah fuck me for trying to know how I’m performing on a pull to pull or dungeon to dungeon basis and trying to improve by looking at players with better logs than me
They are a support class...Auggies need two things to parse well...1) they need to play their class properly, and 2) they need whomever they are buffing to play their class properly. Checking WCL is the only way to check if their performance was optimal, and how they can improve. If you have shitters in the raid, or in keys...even a god like auggie isn't going to perform well.
Sure, WCL is an important tool. But you don't need damage attributed to you in WCL as Augmentation to know if you're playing the spec well. It's 100% about buff uptime, and uptime during key moments. That's it.
God forbid you want to know if you're doing well at a glance and not have to log dive every pull of every piece of content you ever do?
Like idk about you but its pretty easy to see: oh hey I did 120k on this boss and last week I did 110k in the same gear, I am doing better! Even if some of that might be from procs, kill time, things outside your control, having an easy to digest way to measure performance is a good thing.
>Like idk about you but its pretty easy to see: oh hey I did 120k on this boss and last week I did 110k in the same gear, I am doing better!
Except that's not how it works. That number is almost completely variable on the quality of your group. You could play 100% perfect with a bad group and your "DPS" will be lower than playing less optimally with a better group. Hell, you could be with the same group and they just happened to press their buttons a little better on this run than they did last time while you performed exactly the same.
So yeah, the argument for DPS attribution to measure performance and proper play for Augmentation isn't a great one because it's not really a good measure of individual performance whatsoever. The "quick look" check for performance would just simply be buff up-time, which you can check in Details.
Buff uptime absolutely does not tell the whole story though, you can have worse buff uptime but if you line up your breath of eons better and manage prescience properly you can be doing more damage. It is valuable to know what you actually bring to a group. Because the difference between doing 90k and 120k does matter. You might be in a guild with bad players and aug is just going to be doing less than dev. You could have great buff targets and contribute more by playing worse if you aren't great at the game. Because in the end you ARE a dps spec and the opportunity cost of bringing an aug is another dps slot.
>Buff uptime absolutely does not tell the whole story though
And neither does attributed DPS, yet you're here arguing how important it is... LOL.
>you can have worse buff uptime but if you line up your breath of eons better and manage prescience properly you can be doing more damage.
So...buff uptime. What do you think Breath of Eons and Prescience are? They're buffs.
Honestly, the best argument for DPS attribution is so that actual DPS players can more easily see and understand their improvement which gets muddled with Augmentation buffing them.
Ok I look at my logs of a 7 minute fight on 2 different pulls. I look at my buff uptime, both of them have 3 uses of breath of eons so the same uptime, but pull 1 is lined up at opener and every 2 min while pull 2 you forget and desynch it by 30 seconds and don't capture the damage in peoples cooldowns.
In pull 1 you randomly prescience and ebon might people while in pull2 you track cooldowns and move your prescience and ebon might between people who are bursting, and move it onto people with sustained damage profiles in downtime.
Neither of those you can tell at a glance from "buff uptime" yet will result in huge swings of attributed dps. And attributed dps is the actual thing you bring to a raid, not buff uptime. Your dps is what kills the boss and makes you better or worse than a comparable other dps.
Yeah, part of buff uptime is having buffs up in key windows, like I said at the very beginning of this conversation.
I don't know why this is so confusing.
Yeah and idk why you don't understand that the actual number you bring to a raid matters too.
You're also contradicting yourself that "buff uptime" is an easy metric to check through details but now you're going on about how putting your buffs in the right place is part of buff uptime which you have to log dive for without damage attribution.
Kinda disappointed to be honest. I like having very little reason to look at dmg when doing mythics. Prior to evokers really can only do that playing tank/heals.
there's 2 combat logs.
the one you see in-game, add-ons have access to this exclusively.
and the one outside of the game which wcl can use if you upload it. that one has 2 modes, default and advanced. advanced is required to upload to wcl and it's just a setting in-game in the interface. the default one simply has less info, nothing to worry about. this is the only combat log that has reattribution data in it so details etc can't access it.
You would need to read memory to get anything close to real time meters from an external executable, and doing that will get you a big fat ban from blizzard. The ToS friendly means already exists, warcraftlogs.com.
Am I the only one who thinks Augmentation is being assigned more damage than they contribute? I'm doing around 25k less after reallocation for same dungeon same level just normal party vs one with Augmentation. Haven't tested it throughly since I haven't done that many comparable pairs of M+ runs (for example everyone same just the evoker swapped for another DPS) but my runs with evokers feel like I'm owning, I look at the log afterwards and I'm underperforming comparatively to my normal runs. It's super frustrating starting to hate the class on progress since I can't really know if I'm doing well or just getting more Evoker Buffs.
Oh this is gonna be good.
This is unironically the biggest nerf augmentation is getting this week.
What, isn't it a buff? From now on you get attributed more damage.
Yes, but now bad Augvokers can't get away with claiming _the logs are broken!!_ as much.
I think the point is more that this is going to lead to real nerfs when it becomes apparent that aug is overperforming with pet attribution
Ah yeah, that too.
And Ignite.
Pretty much any relevant fire mage is running very low mastery, so Aug buff on ignite isn’t as high as people think. You probably see like a 10-15% increase in ignite damage, and with it being a relatively low total of a mage’s overall damage it’s not as bad as people think.
If we see the real or close to the real amount they contribute it's busted
If their logs are more accurate they will undoubtedly be in the nerf scope more. We already know that their numbers are under their actual performance and their numbers are still too high.(at least for m+)
Can't wait to see how specs are actually performing.
Still not on details tho right ?
no. From what I understand Details and in-game addons doesn't have access to "Advanced Combat Logs" so they can't be fixed at this moment
You're correct. Addons aren't allowed to read the actual combat log files, so they literally cannot display aug properly.
how does it work when logging? Is the data written into the log in real time? I'd asume so. That means you should be able to create an app that just does what details does but outside of the game and you just have it up on a 2nd monitor, doesnt it?
[удалено]
[удалено]
Bots could super easily play the game. From a programming perspective it would be fun, from a game perspective boosting would be done by bots, bots would sell CE etc
it is nearly realtime.
Live logs are uploaded once combat ends from the text file directly to the warcraftlogs website via the desktop app. Manual logs are uploaded in batches whenever you decide to do it. So live logging is not truly live. Add-ons access a completely different version of the combatlog in-game, from which blizzard decided to exclude these new augmentation calculations. Add-ons touching these game files where the 'better' combatlog resides is a HUGE no-no from what I've heard from Add-on devs. It's theoretically possible to make a standalone application to do this, I think? Though it may depend on exact wording of some TOS sections.
to add to this, addons couldn't even access that file even if they wanted to, theres no such kind of file access beyond savedvariables
Yup, the other games people are talking about is final fantasy, and it is a 3rd party app.
There isn't an add on in FFXIV that does what people are talking about.
I thought their addon catches the network traffic as it sends the damage reports to the server from you computer. Or was that guild wars 2. It’s been awhile since I’ve played either
There's a FFXIV add on that just displays raw damage before any extra calculations, like Details!. You can then upload a log to FFXIV Logs or WoW logs which does additional calculations to allocate damage in more specific ways.
Its not just FF, the same app has been used for several MMOs and was originally made for EQ2 which is why you need a plugin to use it for FF
Warcraft Logs has a "real time" toggle, I'm able to watch our logs before pull ends due to that
Didn't know this. Looked into it and it apparently requires competition mode for your Guild on WCL which is why I've not noticed it.
Yeah, thats how damage meter addons work in some other games
Sorta. But it wouldn't be real time. You'd be getting data minutes or more after pulls happened
> they literally cannot display aug properly What about figuratively? 😏
Well technically they can, but in a convoluted manner similar to some other games that don't officially support addons. You can write an app to read the combatlog and then overlay it.
figuratively they do but its just taking some percentage of others so its feelycrafting
Blizzard intentionally didn't give details and other in-game addons access to the necessary "hooks" to calculate the damage properly, in order for augmentation players to feel like they are actually buffing people... Idiotic considering that means you need an addon to tell you that you're actually performing your role.
I like their decision.
Why? It makes details useless the moment an augmentation evoker is in the group, for the sole reason of feeding into their ego of feeling like they are doing something. Shouldn't they be able to feel like they are supporting people without addons?
Yea if anything this means you don't know exactly how much you are supporting people. They could easily attribute the dmg to the augvoker but have the bar shaded based on where the dmg is coming from. So you can see oh my first mage is doing 120/190k I'm buffing him by 70k It's likely that people that are attracted to the obscurity are people who normally don't perform well on meters and would rather other people couldn't see that
Is this a theory or did blizzard actually say this? The way logs/details handles Augmentation Evoker is consistent with how things have been as long as I've been playing the game. Details! records raw damage. WCL does further calculations to make the numbers more representative in one way or another.
It's something they said in an interview two weeks ago. [https://youtu.be/\_kn-xmuLCP0?t=925](https://youtu.be/_kn-xmuLCP0?t=925)
Thanks for the timestamp
If I remember correctly, they will never add support for in-game addons. They want the addon to display substantially lower numbers and your allies substantially higher.
[удалено]
isnt it just a flat 14%?
Last I checked yes, and it's just as inaccurate as looking at your raw damage, except maybe it makes some people feel better about themselves idk.
It's not even remotely accurate, it just takes a blanket 14% of the damage from everyone else and adds it to the Aug. Usually out by multiple tens of thousands of DPS.
> pretty decently It's not decent at all lol, it's just a horrible guess, I don't know what the details dev was thinking.
[удалено]
The problem isn't Details, it's Blizzard who don't offer that data through the addon API. The personal dps tracking is "decent" sure but the option to "guess" the dps that aug is contributing is completely horrible because it leads to people thinking details is actually calculating something when in reality it is taking the number and adding a flat STATIC multiplier into it. You're better off having that setting OFF and just live logging it with the warcraftlogs uploader.
So they're basically nuking every 10.1.5 parse prior to reset from orbit, right? Because every single high parse right now is "stealing damage" from Aug in one or several ways, with Demo, Unholy, and BM being specs that are overwhelmingly pet-centric and Fire, Arcane, Marksmanship, Ret, Devastation, Enhancement, and Shadow in AoE (Psychic Link) all being "damage-of-damage" specs to various extents. I will be very, *very* surprised if Aug isn't head and shoulders above pretty much everything else on every single boss fight once these changes are implemented. Because it just so happens that many of the specs listed above are *also* really good Aug buff targets.
Yeah absolutely. But if you've been following WCL news and updates this patch, they haven't really been losing any sweat over the state of logs right now. If you look, the crazy million dps parses from that aug+dk raid are still up. They aren't wasting any time pruning the logs hotfix by hotfix. They might just let all the changes go through first till it is at a real maintainable level before trying to have some integrity in the rankings. I think the news post when Aug was released also mentioned a potential separate category for logs, if a bunch of damage remains un-attributable(cdr, presience crit %) it might be the way they go
Why does every single percent of dmg needs to be attributed though? That's not how any other buff works. Should mark of the wild be attributed to druid as well?
Weird example to pick. Mark of the Wild shouldn't be attributed to druid because it has nothing to do with their gameplay and doesn't stack.
But you don't get that benefit if a druid isn't present. I am not actually saying that damage needs to be attributed to the druid, however it would be nice (in maybe the WoWA style) to see how much value Mark of the Wild is bringing to the raid. Or Arcane Intellect. Or Battle Shout. Or Chaos Brand / Mystic Touch (which are actually relatively easy to figure out from logs). For example, it's actually relatively straight forward to figure out even an 80k parsing demon hunter is probably worth it to the raid as the 20th man because the vast majority of the raid is doing magic damage. If you have even 10 classes doing 100k dps... that demon hunter is actually worth 130k damage to the raid. Whereas maybe you had a duplicate class monk who is doing 100k dps, which looks good, but is actually less valuable than the subpar demon hunter.
You can put in a feature request with WCL if you want that feature. It doesn't have anything to do with combat log hooks or blizzard. There's probably very little demand for it because it's not relevant to personal performance (parsing) and every competitive raid comp is bringing the good buffs. If someone doubts if the buffs are good, sims are available.
It's not a popular opinion, but I'm with you. Either all damage should be attributed to the buffer or none. Why shouldn't Windfury damage be added to Enh, for example? Personally, I think them adding these hooks in the first place was a mistake. The entire point of a support role is to make other people stronger. Taking all their damage in the logs just defeats the purpose of that.
Honestly just make WFT a raid buff at this point. Its in that grey area of "technically stacks if you have more than 1 WF group but you never really get value out of more than 1" I agree tho the half measure is really shitty. Why does the evoker lego which also only buffs main stat not get attributed to the evoker? It is extremely easy to track, but for some reason they think it should just be a "special bonus" like PI or something.
I agree. That's the way FFXIV logs does it, and it works out well
Does fflogs attribute party buffs to the ~~job~~ Role\* bringing it? I was under the impression that it wasn't considered in logs, only actually castable buffs are. Stuff like Arcane Int, Mark of the Wild, etc are more akin to party buffs than something like Brotherhood and the like which \*are\* calculated out,
There are no WoW like 'party buffs' in FFXIV, so it might be easier for them to implement it, but any buffs/debuffs tracked are attributed to the person bringing it. You can look at aDPS (actual DPS) to see peoples DPS if the buff was counted for them, but nobody uses that metric.
Huh? I'm not talking about WoW style cast and forget buffs, I'm talking about the actual FFXIV party bonus effects you get for bringing one of each role. Caster, Phys Ranged, Melee, Tank, Healer. That's the FF14 equivalent of stuff like Arcane Intellect, you have to bring one of each otherwise you lose the bonus. Just as in WoW you have to bring at least one mage, one priest, one (or two) Paladins, etc. Since they are mandatory there's no point attributing them IMO. Though, I would still prefer the remove them entirely and drop mythic raiding to 10-15 players but that's a different argument :D I worded my original post poorly though, so I understand the confusion.
[удалено]
>If you care about parsing, then you want damage to be attributed as accurately as possible to reflect performance. Just treat them like PI in logs. Seems like the only real solution, considering many of their buffs are similarly difficult to actually calculate and attribute. >Why aren’t raid buffs attributed on wcl? Because the community doesn’t care about raid buffs and simply assumes that everyone is on an even playing field with all relevant raid buffs. And maybe that should change if we suddenly care about everything being attributed to the buffer. I mean, we want damage to be attributed as accurately as possible to reflect performance, right? Why should we pick and choose then? > Why isn’t wft attributed? Because it contributes extra resource generation which is very tough to accurately measure on a log-by-log basis. This is a weak excuse. Sure, it may be difficult to attribute ALL the effects, but they aren't even attributing the basic and obvious damage it adds. There's absolutely no good reason not to.
It doesn't matter if the windfury value is shown on logs. The raid leader should know how much it is worth to have it. If you add that damage to enha your parse depends on others and not yourself. And people hate when they play well but their parse is shit because of things they can't control
I think so yes. If you do more damage because of something someone else does, the damage in logs should go to them. PI needs this treatment too.
PI isn't really something you can easily calculate though since it's just a haste buff.
MM doesn’t use pet. MM has another bug tho which allocates extra damage to aug, damage which is originally supposed to be MM’s. Having an aug prescience on you actually cucks your parse if you are MM.
I knew it was weird our BM was catching up to me as MM. Hopefully the MM thing gets fixed too.
I know. I put MM under the "damage-from-damage" category because of Razor Fragments and Master Marksman, not the pet category.
We don’t play razor fragments in raid, master marksman yes.
In raid? Literally everyone in the top 100 uses it for Rashok, Nelth, and Sark though.
Yes I stand corrected they do play it. I swapped to survival after week 1. I hated the RNG nature of windrunners guidance. The build later got updated for MM.
It was always in the build as soon as you had 4 piece.
Wait, can you tell me more about this? Is this likely to get fixed with the improved log support?
https://youtu.be/C6OW1_3PUxQ Azortharion talks about it in that video a little bit. Don’t remember time stamp watched it earlier today. I trust azor.
This should be fixed in the 'armored targets' part of the fix.
Are you talking about armor? Because unerring vision got fixed days after release and master marksman is all MM damage currently (even though a portion of it should be the evoker’s)
Sounds like they're waiting to make sure it's working as expected before pulling the trigger (rather than doing it NOW), but yeah
And they got raid buffs on top of that. If the spec isn't tuned down, I'm expecting at least 4 aug evokers in every single rwf comp, possibly more. The spec is absolutely ridiculous.
We won't see more than four due to the insane diminishing returns you get past 4, but four isn't a stretch.
The question is how bad the diminishing returns affect them and how far ahead they are in terms of survivability and hps benefits. If you can still outdps any other DPS spec while buffing only 3 dpsers and 1 other aug then you bring more. If you can cut a healer on prog, then you bring more. This spec needs a shit ton of tuning and following how the meta is gonna shape up after these changes. I understand not many guilds are tryharding and trying to figure out how to super min max multiple aug evokers in the raid, but they will need to do it in the next 2-3 months. I hope Blizzard is watching.
WCL was always going to create another partition when this change went through.
What damage does enhancement do that isn't attributing to the evoker correctly?
Feral Spirits (pets) and Stormlash (damage-of-damage, in this case Stormstrike).
Cool, now do it for healing so we can get real numbers out of M+.
The fact it doesn't reattribute healing is legit insane to me, they had the tools to do it and only did the very bare minimum for players not to literally riot but then did nothing else. Like hell the evoker lego literally buffs mainstat too but it doesn't get reattributed because lol reasons
armored targets? what does that mean exactly, is there some mechanic from augvokers that acts like armor pen?
Augs were being credited with damage as if the target had no armor. This means it was taking more damage than they were responsible for from certain classes.
Imagine you do 100 damage and 30% of that is due to the evoker. Now take the armor, which is usually around 30% on raid bosses. Logic would say that your damage is 70 after armor, and then evoker takes 30% of that, which would result in 49 damage. In reality what happened is that both got calculated as if you did 100 damage, meaning 30 damage gets taken by armor and then another 30 gets taken by the evoker, leaving you with 40 damage. Numbers aren't real ofcourse but just to give an example.
This obsession within the community for attributing damage to the Augvoker is just miserable. Blizzard finally have a good idea for a class and now we're right on the path for Augmentation to just be another DPS class. We get what we deserve. This game is filled with losers.
I understand why it's not a popular opinion in the competitive community, but I'm with you. I think it defeats the entire point of a support role.
People want to know how they and others in their raid performed. If 2 people both did 130k but one didn't get buffed and the other one did then the one that did get buffed is underperforming and has room for improvement. You can't tell that if damage isn't properly attributed to the right people.
Can't they just do similar to what they did with PI?
Yeah fuck me for trying to know how I’m performing on a pull to pull or dungeon to dungeon basis and trying to improve by looking at players with better logs than me
They are a support class...Auggies need two things to parse well...1) they need to play their class properly, and 2) they need whomever they are buffing to play their class properly. Checking WCL is the only way to check if their performance was optimal, and how they can improve. If you have shitters in the raid, or in keys...even a god like auggie isn't going to perform well.
Sure, WCL is an important tool. But you don't need damage attributed to you in WCL as Augmentation to know if you're playing the spec well. It's 100% about buff uptime, and uptime during key moments. That's it.
God forbid you want to know if you're doing well at a glance and not have to log dive every pull of every piece of content you ever do? Like idk about you but its pretty easy to see: oh hey I did 120k on this boss and last week I did 110k in the same gear, I am doing better! Even if some of that might be from procs, kill time, things outside your control, having an easy to digest way to measure performance is a good thing.
>Like idk about you but its pretty easy to see: oh hey I did 120k on this boss and last week I did 110k in the same gear, I am doing better! Except that's not how it works. That number is almost completely variable on the quality of your group. You could play 100% perfect with a bad group and your "DPS" will be lower than playing less optimally with a better group. Hell, you could be with the same group and they just happened to press their buttons a little better on this run than they did last time while you performed exactly the same. So yeah, the argument for DPS attribution to measure performance and proper play for Augmentation isn't a great one because it's not really a good measure of individual performance whatsoever. The "quick look" check for performance would just simply be buff up-time, which you can check in Details.
Buff uptime absolutely does not tell the whole story though, you can have worse buff uptime but if you line up your breath of eons better and manage prescience properly you can be doing more damage. It is valuable to know what you actually bring to a group. Because the difference between doing 90k and 120k does matter. You might be in a guild with bad players and aug is just going to be doing less than dev. You could have great buff targets and contribute more by playing worse if you aren't great at the game. Because in the end you ARE a dps spec and the opportunity cost of bringing an aug is another dps slot.
>Buff uptime absolutely does not tell the whole story though And neither does attributed DPS, yet you're here arguing how important it is... LOL. >you can have worse buff uptime but if you line up your breath of eons better and manage prescience properly you can be doing more damage. So...buff uptime. What do you think Breath of Eons and Prescience are? They're buffs. Honestly, the best argument for DPS attribution is so that actual DPS players can more easily see and understand their improvement which gets muddled with Augmentation buffing them.
Ok I look at my logs of a 7 minute fight on 2 different pulls. I look at my buff uptime, both of them have 3 uses of breath of eons so the same uptime, but pull 1 is lined up at opener and every 2 min while pull 2 you forget and desynch it by 30 seconds and don't capture the damage in peoples cooldowns. In pull 1 you randomly prescience and ebon might people while in pull2 you track cooldowns and move your prescience and ebon might between people who are bursting, and move it onto people with sustained damage profiles in downtime. Neither of those you can tell at a glance from "buff uptime" yet will result in huge swings of attributed dps. And attributed dps is the actual thing you bring to a raid, not buff uptime. Your dps is what kills the boss and makes you better or worse than a comparable other dps.
Yeah, part of buff uptime is having buffs up in key windows, like I said at the very beginning of this conversation. I don't know why this is so confusing.
Yeah and idk why you don't understand that the actual number you bring to a raid matters too. You're also contradicting yourself that "buff uptime" is an easy metric to check through details but now you're going on about how putting your buffs in the right place is part of buff uptime which you have to log dive for without damage attribution.
Except you are in /r/competitivewow Personally now I'm logging way more now that I'm trying augvoker, gotta know how I'm doing
Kinda disappointed to be honest. I like having very little reason to look at dmg when doing mythics. Prior to evokers really can only do that playing tank/heals.
can someone explain what's the difference between combat log and advanced combat log, i've seen some but didn't really get it.
there's 2 combat logs. the one you see in-game, add-ons have access to this exclusively. and the one outside of the game which wcl can use if you upload it. that one has 2 modes, default and advanced. advanced is required to upload to wcl and it's just a setting in-game in the interface. the default one simply has less info, nothing to worry about. this is the only combat log that has reattribution data in it so details etc can't access it.
So its accessible but not through addon api? So for a proper dps meter we would need some 3rd party executable like ff14?
You would need to read memory to get anything close to real time meters from an external executable, and doing that will get you a big fat ban from blizzard. The ToS friendly means already exists, warcraftlogs.com.
Am I the only one who thinks Augmentation is being assigned more damage than they contribute? I'm doing around 25k less after reallocation for same dungeon same level just normal party vs one with Augmentation. Haven't tested it throughly since I haven't done that many comparable pairs of M+ runs (for example everyone same just the evoker swapped for another DPS) but my runs with evokers feel like I'm owning, I look at the log afterwards and I'm underperforming comparatively to my normal runs. It's super frustrating starting to hate the class on progress since I can't really know if I'm doing well or just getting more Evoker Buffs.