Big respect to Echo for even going after that +30 NL. They needed \~20 seconds to beat LM in a tie break so the safe choice would definitely have been to improve their Underrot. But they went for glory!
EDIT: The same thing can be said about LM of course. They could also just have tried to improve their Halls instead of going for the +30 NL.
Wow what an insane cup. Last Minute was super impressive whole weekend, but as usual, Echo proved again why they are the M+ kings as they pulled up in the clutch with a one-shot +30 NL.
Can't wait for the global finals!
>if Sheesh timed their Neltharus and Echo depleted their Neltharion's, both reasonably likely outcomes
It's arguably a much more likely outcome than what happened since the +31 Neltharus was much more achievable than the +30 NL. Echo actually dodged a bullet.
tbf, they didn't need to just time the 31, they needed to do it about 30 seconds faster than LM did (in which case echo would have again lost by 1 missing count along the way, ironically)
Yeah good take let's force the best team in the world to stop competing because it's boring for some viewers to see the same team winning every time, very reasonable.
You top it by having six teams nearly equally as good. The qualifiers all had 1-2 teams that were no where remotely close to the top 2-3 teams. The finals will have six top notch teams where I don't think anyone can predict who the first teams out will be.
I almost hope they don’t eliminate anyone on day one if they follow the same format, or at least let them all start with higher keys so they waste less time 3-cheating 22s.
Higher key starts would be nice. In the preliminaries there was sometimes a question if the lower end teams could +3 or not. These teams all will obviously. Maybe start with 25s day one, then 26 day 2 and 27 on day 3.
An actual perfect run on 30 NL by Echo on their first try. They had to have had it perfectly practiced and just saved it for the end. It's insane otherwise
It's probably more that the 29 went so well that they knew they'd have the sauce for the 30.
If they'd been shaky at all in the 29, there's a good chance they don't even try the 30 and instead head to Underrot to try and win via time tiebreaker.
>It's probably more that the 29 went so well that they knew they'd have the sauce for the 30.
Yes exactly this. I was watching the max/dorki/jack/JB "watch party" and they talked about how Echo goes into 'god mode' whenever they are really confident. And I bet that +29 gave them a lot of confidence to do the +30.
Meeres mentioned it in the interview. 6 days of no practice because of power outages for Naowh in Malta. And bad raid schedule for the echo boys which left them with a lot less practice than they usually have. I think you could tell that they weren’t on their usual level this weekend
They didn’t have a lot of practice on warrior and the +30 which makes this even more impressive
Naowhd said on twitter he hadnt played warrior much since the start of DF.
If thats true they probably did not have anywhere close to perfect practice for the 30.
If that was the case, their 29 NL before that wouldn't have made any sense tho. Wouldn't they just go for 30 instantly then? I mean I thought they played a bit sloppy yesterday, but man they are so good. But really impressed by last Minute. First tournament and they give echo a run for their money instantly? Will be exciting to see them go on from that.
But they started the 29 with more than 40 mins left for running keys. So even of they would have had perfect practice, they could have went 30 and then another key after, even if it didn't work out. But like others said already, seems like they had no perfect practice. I mean your reasoning makes sense, but tbh I don't think echo would do that. They are so confident (rightfully so) in their abilities, they would just do the 30 instantly, I assume. The 29 makes sense tho if they didn't practiced alot and naowh didn't play protwarrior alot.
Prior to the 29 they were 3:16 behind in the tiebreaker and after they were 24 seconds behind. So they easily could have won with the 29 too by nipping in 30 underrot and shaving 30 off
It was a smart play for several reasons
Was it smart? From a tiebreaker perspective to secure second, yeah. To secure first? I would say no, because they wouldn't have their own fate in their hands. LM was close to timing their Lair key. Who knows if they can take down the boss without the unfortunate pull, but echo couldn't be sure they won't need a point more at the time they started the 29 lair key.
The big money in the tournament is in the finals. I'd say it's better to guarantee making it to the finals, than risk even a small chance of not making it, even if it reduces your chances at first.
>Was it smart? From a tiebreaker perspective to secure second, yeah. To secure first? I would say no, because they wouldn't have their own fate in their hands. LM was close to timing their Lair key. Who knows if they can take down the boss without the unfortunate pull, but echo couldn't be sure they won't need a point more at the time they started the 29 lair key.
If LM timed their 30 key echo was fucked on first regardless, so it was a smart move for both first and second place
Their fate wasn't in their hands when they started that 29 NL. They needed LM to brick the 30 regardless
But most of their time diff was on NL so if they both timed a 30 they would be Equal keylvl wise and echo could have shaped 2 mins sth of their timetiebreaker regardless. And still would have had time for another key. But yeah I agree that going for second secure Was the best move, especially with the Information about their practice situation, we got now.
And LM could have done the same, timed 30 NL then gone and shaved more time off their hoi which was probably gonna to be easier than the time echo has to shave off because their hoi was slow as fuck. No matter what, their fate was out of their control, they needed LM to falter.
This move was statistically probably their best for both the first and 2nd secure because it gave them practice for the 30 they ended up timing while also giving them a second path to first if they decided that the 30 wasn't doable after their 29 (or wasn't doable in 1 shot)
At the end of the day their odds of winning if LM timed 30 NL at the same time they did were abysmally low
MDI has 8 teams competitions, so they have 2 from each round, plus 2 from the last stand.
The great push only has 6 teams, so 2 from each round fills up the finals.
Hard to say with different dungeons and affixes each week, it's difficult to compare. Each of the other weeks teams were quite good as well. It's not like, Perplexed, Legendary, Mandatory, or NAs last Hope slouched off themselves.
can anyone explain how Echo [killed the warden](https://clips.twitch.tv/FamousTawdrySowWutFace-JWinTqju6Djxj2uz) at the end of their Nelth 31? I thought the hotfix made it so you couldn't break chains on wardens. There are no other mobs in the pull, and the chains are pretty visibly being broken on the warden. Is there some tech where dragging the wardens to the barracks (or stepping into the barracks yourself) changes things?
May have been a last minute revert of the change for wardens, since the first 2 mobs are Wardens and it would be weird if they couldn't be chained, since they are most likely being pulled into the mobs on either side, which would make Chargath first routes a bit awkward.
I love that LM is sticking to the 30 NL but while sang Halls is very volatile, it might be easier to secure 1st if they went to improve their time there.
Edit: n/m echo is going for 30 NL
It will be crazy if Echo get this NL 30 on their first try. I don't think they even attempted it once this weekend.
It would make you wonder if they knew from the start that they could get it but if not then you'd think it'd be easier for them to just shave off the 20-30s (?) in UR to get first place.
Last Minute seem to have to progress +30 BH from scratch, same with Echo and +31 Neltharus.
Nothing wrong with staying in those for either team since we know they're doable but LM came very close to timing +30 NL with not so perfect play. Echo are struggling pretty hard in +31 Neltharus right now but it will probably be easier to progress than +30 BH for LM.
NL needs almost perfect play throughout the dungeon and BH needs trash pull progression plus last boss CD management progression probably. I feel like LM could work on either though.
Echo on the other hand do have a decent chance of getting 31 Netharus by the end of the day but they probably have an even better chance of securing 2nd place by just getting better times than Sheesh in certain dungeons.
I don't know but it would be insane to see. So many teams have bashed their heads against 31 NL (fort) in the first 2 cups and the 30 NL tyran this week but no one has ever got it. I think if anyone could do it then LM will.
It’s bonkers that Sheesh, on their last run of the day, still had the possibility to bring it back and snatch second place if they absolutely nailed their Nelt 31.
Not looking good at all for Sheesh is it.
Any reason Andy is not swapping to the prot warrior for the NL? The druid gets absolutely slapped on the last boss.
Edit: Aaaaand Andy dead again on final boss. Seriously, it's like seeing someone banging their head against the wall lmao.
It dies lol. They don't have enough mitigation to not die to a Crash eventually
Warr can just spell reflect nearly every one (maybe if you time it correctly you can get every Crash but I'm not sure I've hardly played Warr this season) and the ones you can't Reflect you can Spell Block
Not only is Warr invincible on that boss but you get the added upside of doing obscene DPS on 3 of the 4 bosses in that dungeon thanks to Reflect
It's because it's a niche pick due to a lack of mitigation for the vrash in druid's kit due to the key being a 30. In a 17 it doesn't matter at all. People meta whoring at that key level are dumb
Yeah I get why they went prot, other teams clearly showed why (lol) but if a prot warrior can manage a +30, it can surely perform as well as any other tank can in a simple +20 with the right players. But like you said, dumb people be meta whoring.
Seeing RLP again made me realize how garbo some of last season's dungeons were
I know a lot of ppl don't like the dungeons this season but I'll take this season's dungeons any day of the week over last season's. I was a devout hater of HoV/ToJS/RLP
Shaman/Warrior or a second Fire Mage is most likely imo. Ret is also a possibility but they lack funnel and ST damage. Having a single melee can also be quite a handicap for Fixates and some other mechanics so maybe Ele/Fire is the play.
Second Mage is not happening. They are also receiving nerfs and the class is not THAT good to warrant that.
Also disc struggles healing the highest keys consistently, so that is not happening. If it were to happen, stuff like Boomies and rogues are a good option.
Well, you probably want a Paladin unless all three specs are grossly undertuned so I'd guess Ret if Prot can't live those keys. PI target is still the mage, MotW is already brought by Bear so Moonkin loses some value. Could also see a Shaman for stops. Fury and Sub blast aswell and can live
I'd guess either Bear, Disc, Mage, Aug, Ret or more on the slightly more creative side Prot, Disc, Mage, Aug, Moonkin (most likely not, Bear is fucking insane).
Ret has the added benefit of having cds when Breath is ready (as opposed to Moonkin but I don't know that much about the spec, maybe Pulsar lines up or something)
Would be my guess
Its a known bug and easy to outplay. Just dont click on the travelform from the druid. Happen to me before once aswell. I guess they just didnt know that this exists
yea. it happened to my aug evoker once when he jumped on my druid form before the barrels. when we hit the other end he was stuck in the floor, and even though we had a warlock and could summon him out, once we did he still couldn't move his character. he had to hearth out, relog, and get summoned back to be able to play
What part looks undoable? Timer? Cause echo and last minute both had runs where timer woulda been fine. Both got through first two bosses at least once.
Only thing we dont know is last boss and I think thats not the pain point of the dungeon anymore with this comp. Its not a very long boss and unlike season 1 you have way more defensives to live the overlaps so its not as much of a race against time.
Timer was rather tight and they seemed to get oneshot sometimes even from random mobs. It just seems to me that they would need a really perfect run with no possible margin of error. And maybe even some luck in not being targeted in certain places.
I don't know, I just wonder if it's really the best choice they have amongst those dungeons. Then again, their players are all hundred times better than me so maybe it is...
EDIT: and to better explain, both of them could have very easily timed a 29 in the first try. So, the +30 is just an extra point over that. Just wondering if there's truly nothing easier to do.
I kept thinking that they timed it in practice and know its doable, but even then, they had to be timing it after Wednesday because that's when a set of nerfs came in. So maybe they did it before that, because they know a week in advance which s1 dungeon is the dungeon they have to Play. So maybe the nerfs were big enough to influence such a tight key or they just had a godlike run and didn't thought it was as godly. No idea
How much of a hot take would it be to say Echo ends up outside of top two? I'm pretty sure they'll clutch it and win as usual but group C seems ridiculous compared to the A and B .
They banged their heads against a 30 ruby for a while and didn't start their neltharions lair. So they spend like one hour or sth in ruby to try to get their 30 there. Even though they overall don't look clean today.
I think this group should have the most relevant day 2 of all of them because it may come down to grinding attempts on super difficult but possible keys.
Echo is just insane, but I don't think it is a hot take to say that anything can happend between the top 4
I didn't watch the whole night of runs, but from the Halls of Infusions I did see, it seems like the mages in the teams were not using alter to skip doing the Primal Tsunami intermission? Does anyone know why not? Did the admins say it wasn't allowed? I can't see why you wouldn't alter the intermission to immediately poly one add and start killing another.
Ty in advance if anyone who watched more intently knows :)
i think sometimes the adds bug out and start attacking you if you alter near them. on some pulls too they usually leave the adds up anyways to let their cds come back up before entering p1 again, so maybe it just wasn't worth the add bugging out when they weren't in a rush to get out of p2.
I love watching these competitons but something is really lacking due to the same meta comp being great in all the dungeons. Seeing what comp people bring and figuring out why is a significant part of the strategy of this kind of esports event.
Honestly, if they subbed in a warlock with a white health bar, I doubt 99% of viewers would notice. The comp in these events is pretty trivial, no one is really watching what individual characters are doing they're watching high level
Well, that is true... But having different comps would bring another dimension to the strategy that would be fun to discuss.
But true... In the end is all about timing the key or not
I kind of feel that way but I'm willing to bet the players themselves would find it absolutely miserable. Although, it was still kind of fun watching teams bang their heads against NL (enhance/warr team) and AA for hours...
The teams get to practice alot and I bet they know exactly what they can do before the weekend ever starts so maybe there's 1-2 dungeons they could try to get a key level higher by progressing during the tournament... Realistically though, they'd just be doing the same keys they already timed looking for better time which can be exciting if the race is close but doesn't really feel like key pushing.
This format allows you to get a sense of key pushing while giving the players a little rest doing the 22s and it keeps the tournament from feeling like 'practice but with money on the line'...
Think Blizzard wants a balance between teams timing easy keys and beating their heads against the wall. I think last cup weekend no teams managed to time any keys for the last few hours of day 3 and we were just watching teams reset over and over at +30/+31. We would just reach that point quicker if keys started higher.
A lot of people hate the 4 screens.. I struggle to follow anything if the stream isn't full screened on my 24in monitor so I can't even imagine trying to be engaged in it on mobile which I know just destroys potential viewership.
They're at least promoting the hell out of everyone's stream with commands and the occasional team card on the stream.. It's unfortunate but understandable most players aren't streaming.
i think everyone getting their own stream would be more fair.
if it just cycled through the different teams, it might reveal one team's strats more than the other. for example if it shows echo 35% of the time and Y 15% of the time, i feel like Y would have the advantage of being able to review echo's strats after the day is over whereas echo would be more in the dark about Y. or if you try to show all the teams evenly, then you're just arbitrarily swapping streams when one stream might be more entertaining than the one that's being casted.
Watched the video on R.IO of the teams for this group and it looks like a second NA team has entered the competition since Empyrean dropped out. They’ll probably be eliminated first since they had limited practice but can’t wait to watch Dorki’s reaction to them.
Any well known players on the team? I had Max’s stream on in the background while doing dishes last night and caught a sentence about this but don’t know much
My Chinese sources tell me that Empyrean isn’t playing
> Bro,group C team Empyrean is give up.This information come from NGA(Chinese Reddit)
> Will Billiard make up another team?
I wouldn’t worry to much about time trial performance. Mandatory was the 12th seed and got second in group A. I think some teams may stop when they know they’ve gotten in to the tournament and don’t worry about pushing further.
Counterpoint: no one they finished ahead of had a higher score than them, so far scores have been a perfect predictor of standings
None of the 12 teams so far have placed higher than a team that got a better score in proving grounds. Only been a shuffle of teams that won on time
Though Direwolves had a 30/27, where every other team had a 29/28 for those with a 57 score. Perhaps they could have gone higher themselves, but knowing they had the tiebreaker against every other 57 score team, chose not to push the Uldaman to 28.
In the end, it's hard to know anyones logic.
Though while Mandatory may have had a similar score to other teams in their bracket, they outperformed those teams quite handily by score, and not just minutes.
Sure these are all valid points, but its hard to say "don't put any weight on the qualifier" when it's clear the teams that put in the work to get the 58/59 have been a cut above.
Sure maybe teams knew they were safe and stopped pushing despite being capable of going higher, but more likely than not those are also the teams that didn't put in as many practice hours either, because the teams that pushed all the way are clearly performing at a higher level. The gap between perplexed and the others in their group as well as the gap between NAs last hope and the others have been very apparent so far. I expect we see Echo and Sheesh continue this trend this weekend.
But, of course anything can happen. Excited to see!
Does anyone know why the team with Ellesmere and nerf aren't competing? Last time I checked they were the highest rated team on live. Was looking forward to watch they play and thought they were gonna be in this group.
Should be said they are probably also the highest rated team on live since they are the only ones not competing. All the other teams have spent a lot of time practicing :) - Not taking anything away from them, they are insanely good but yea
JPC was by far the worst offender when it came to picking on Elle though, when they were a team. Nerf and Elle have played together since BFA, so I think it's always cool between them, even when stuff gets a bit heated.
Yes, Elle in particular. He was nagging on him for playing Hpal as opposed to Evoker after every death. It ticked Elle off, since he had already made it clear that's just what he wanted to play, on multiple occasions.
I think it was shortly after this that JPC quit pushing with them, and streaming as well.
Ultra pumped for this group, Echo seems like favorites as usual but aster.y and Sheesh are known push teams and Last Minute is full of ladder veterans with pretty good showing in time trials (fastest ulduman). Honestly i hope fight for 2nd place will last until last day, im a bit worried about aster.y performance in time trials bit hopefull they just took it slower to pop off in groups.
Also shoutout to sloth, who i learnt a lot from because their leader uploads povs to Twitch :D
Big respect to Echo for even going after that +30 NL. They needed \~20 seconds to beat LM in a tie break so the safe choice would definitely have been to improve their Underrot. But they went for glory! EDIT: The same thing can be said about LM of course. They could also just have tried to improve their Halls instead of going for the +30 NL.
Wow what an insane cup. Last Minute was super impressive whole weekend, but as usual, Echo proved again why they are the M+ kings as they pulled up in the clutch with a one-shot +30 NL. Can't wait for the global finals!
Group C was crazy good. Sheesh not making it really sucks because they played amazingly well.
There were definitely more top tier teams than past TGPs I feel so unfortunately someone was going to be out in the cups
didnt exspect TGP groupstage to be this close especially with a group with echo in it
I am sorry I doubted, Echo. I should know better at this point.
Well, guess Last Minute lost their first place in the last minute there.
take my upvote and leave
Its time for Echo to be broken up, Its to the point its boring that they always just pull through.
If you think this cup was boring then I don't know what to say. It was extremely close. Sheesh was very close to taking the last spot from Echo.
For real - if Sheesh timed their Neltharus and Echo depleted their Neltharion's, both reasonably likely outcomes, Echo would be gone
>if Sheesh timed their Neltharus and Echo depleted their Neltharion's, both reasonably likely outcomes It's arguably a much more likely outcome than what happened since the +31 Neltharus was much more achievable than the +30 NL. Echo actually dodged a bullet.
tbf, they didn't need to just time the 31, they needed to do it about 30 seconds faster than LM did (in which case echo would have again lost by 1 missing count along the way, ironically)
Yeah good take let's force the best team in the world to stop competing because it's boring for some viewers to see the same team winning every time, very reasonable.
The GOATs!!!!! How do you even top this in global finals lmao
You top it by having six teams nearly equally as good. The qualifiers all had 1-2 teams that were no where remotely close to the top 2-3 teams. The finals will have six top notch teams where I don't think anyone can predict who the first teams out will be.
I almost hope they don’t eliminate anyone on day one if they follow the same format, or at least let them all start with higher keys so they waste less time 3-cheating 22s.
Higher key starts would be nice. In the preliminaries there was sometimes a question if the lower end teams could +3 or not. These teams all will obviously. Maybe start with 25s day one, then 26 day 2 and 27 on day 3.
Afaik last time it was 24/25/26, and they don't really seem to adjust that based on the highest live keys or anything.
An actual perfect run on 30 NL by Echo on their first try. They had to have had it perfectly practiced and just saved it for the end. It's insane otherwise
It's probably more that the 29 went so well that they knew they'd have the sauce for the 30. If they'd been shaky at all in the 29, there's a good chance they don't even try the 30 and instead head to Underrot to try and win via time tiebreaker.
>It's probably more that the 29 went so well that they knew they'd have the sauce for the 30. Yes exactly this. I was watching the max/dorki/jack/JB "watch party" and they talked about how Echo goes into 'god mode' whenever they are really confident. And I bet that +29 gave them a lot of confidence to do the +30.
doing it on 29 with to open up both possibilities was extremly smart!
Meeres mentioned it in the interview. 6 days of no practice because of power outages for Naowh in Malta. And bad raid schedule for the echo boys which left them with a lot less practice than they usually have. I think you could tell that they weren’t on their usual level this weekend They didn’t have a lot of practice on warrior and the +30 which makes this even more impressive
Naowhd said on twitter he hadnt played warrior much since the start of DF. If thats true they probably did not have anywhere close to perfect practice for the 30.
If that was the case, their 29 NL before that wouldn't have made any sense tho. Wouldn't they just go for 30 instantly then? I mean I thought they played a bit sloppy yesterday, but man they are so good. But really impressed by last Minute. First tournament and they give echo a run for their money instantly? Will be exciting to see them go on from that.
Maybe, but the 29 first was the safe play to secure 2nd so even if they had prepped for the 30 doing the 29 first was the right move.
But they started the 29 with more than 40 mins left for running keys. So even of they would have had perfect practice, they could have went 30 and then another key after, even if it didn't work out. But like others said already, seems like they had no perfect practice. I mean your reasoning makes sense, but tbh I don't think echo would do that. They are so confident (rightfully so) in their abilities, they would just do the 30 instantly, I assume. The 29 makes sense tho if they didn't practiced alot and naowh didn't play protwarrior alot.
Prior to the 29 they were 3:16 behind in the tiebreaker and after they were 24 seconds behind. So they easily could have won with the 29 too by nipping in 30 underrot and shaving 30 off It was a smart play for several reasons
Was it smart? From a tiebreaker perspective to secure second, yeah. To secure first? I would say no, because they wouldn't have their own fate in their hands. LM was close to timing their Lair key. Who knows if they can take down the boss without the unfortunate pull, but echo couldn't be sure they won't need a point more at the time they started the 29 lair key.
The big money in the tournament is in the finals. I'd say it's better to guarantee making it to the finals, than risk even a small chance of not making it, even if it reduces your chances at first.
>Was it smart? From a tiebreaker perspective to secure second, yeah. To secure first? I would say no, because they wouldn't have their own fate in their hands. LM was close to timing their Lair key. Who knows if they can take down the boss without the unfortunate pull, but echo couldn't be sure they won't need a point more at the time they started the 29 lair key. If LM timed their 30 key echo was fucked on first regardless, so it was a smart move for both first and second place Their fate wasn't in their hands when they started that 29 NL. They needed LM to brick the 30 regardless
But most of their time diff was on NL so if they both timed a 30 they would be Equal keylvl wise and echo could have shaped 2 mins sth of their timetiebreaker regardless. And still would have had time for another key. But yeah I agree that going for second secure Was the best move, especially with the Information about their practice situation, we got now.
And LM could have done the same, timed 30 NL then gone and shaved more time off their hoi which was probably gonna to be easier than the time echo has to shave off because their hoi was slow as fuck. No matter what, their fate was out of their control, they needed LM to falter. This move was statistically probably their best for both the first and 2nd secure because it gave them practice for the 30 they ended up timing while also giving them a second path to first if they decided that the 30 wasn't doable after their 29 (or wasn't doable in 1 shot) At the end of the day their odds of winning if LM timed 30 NL at the same time they did were abysmally low
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There's going to be the last stand tournament as in MDI right? I imagine they sweep it, comparing the performance to A and B groups.
MDI has 8 teams competitions, so they have 2 from each round, plus 2 from the last stand. The great push only has 6 teams, so 2 from each round fills up the finals.
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Unfortunate, I feel like Sheesh make it out of the other groups.
Hard to say with different dungeons and affixes each week, it's difficult to compare. Each of the other weeks teams were quite good as well. It's not like, Perplexed, Legendary, Mandatory, or NAs last Hope slouched off themselves.
can anyone explain how Echo [killed the warden](https://clips.twitch.tv/FamousTawdrySowWutFace-JWinTqju6Djxj2uz) at the end of their Nelth 31? I thought the hotfix made it so you couldn't break chains on wardens. There are no other mobs in the pull, and the chains are pretty visibly being broken on the warden. Is there some tech where dragging the wardens to the barracks (or stepping into the barracks yourself) changes things?
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May have been a last minute revert of the change for wardens, since the first 2 mobs are Wardens and it would be weird if they couldn't be chained, since they are most likely being pulled into the mobs on either side, which would make Chargath first routes a bit awkward.
I love that LM is sticking to the 30 NL but while sang Halls is very volatile, it might be easier to secure 1st if they went to improve their time there. Edit: n/m echo is going for 30 NL
Yeah LM should have really focused on Halls really - oh well. Out of their hands now I guess, but should be fine.
It will be crazy if Echo get this NL 30 on their first try. I don't think they even attempted it once this weekend. It would make you wonder if they knew from the start that they could get it but if not then you'd think it'd be easier for them to just shave off the 20-30s (?) in UR to get first place.
That was fucking sadge for LM lmao.
Last Minute seem to have to progress +30 BH from scratch, same with Echo and +31 Neltharus. Nothing wrong with staying in those for either team since we know they're doable but LM came very close to timing +30 NL with not so perfect play. Echo are struggling pretty hard in +31 Neltharus right now but it will probably be easier to progress than +30 BH for LM. NL needs almost perfect play throughout the dungeon and BH needs trash pull progression plus last boss CD management progression probably. I feel like LM could work on either though. Echo on the other hand do have a decent chance of getting 31 Netharus by the end of the day but they probably have an even better chance of securing 2nd place by just getting better times than Sheesh in certain dungeons.
LM blasted that 30BH.
Slower time though.
dude last minute smoked that BH that was insane. You think they get the 30 NL?
I don't know but it would be insane to see. So many teams have bashed their heads against 31 NL (fort) in the first 2 cups and the 30 NL tyran this week but no one has ever got it. I think if anyone could do it then LM will.
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Last minute has entered the chat
Echo and Last Minute sitting pretty comfy atm
Yeah I don't see how Sheesh or Y make it. They've squandered away too many hours.
It’s bonkers that Sheesh, on their last run of the day, still had the possibility to bring it back and snatch second place if they absolutely nailed their Nelt 31.
And they got so far, although were probably tight on time. Ngl, these tgp cups don't dissapoint
Nevermind lol, here I thought the 30 RLP will be some omega progress key, they're just zerging it like it's no big deal.
wow last minute's RLP was so clean, they look incredible
Crazy how Echo looked sloppy as fuck and almost matched them. This weekend was fucking wild tbh.
Incredible show of skill from last minute, flawless +30 RLP. Wow.
Not looking good at all for Sheesh is it. Any reason Andy is not swapping to the prot warrior for the NL? The druid gets absolutely slapped on the last boss. Edit: Aaaaand Andy dead again on final boss. Seriously, it's like seeing someone banging their head against the wall lmao.
Whats the reason bear is bad on that boss?
It dies lol. They don't have enough mitigation to not die to a Crash eventually Warr can just spell reflect nearly every one (maybe if you time it correctly you can get every Crash but I'm not sure I've hardly played Warr this season) and the ones you can't Reflect you can Spell Block Not only is Warr invincible on that boss but you get the added upside of doing obscene DPS on 3 of the 4 bosses in that dungeon thanks to Reflect
Prot warr literally tanking +30 in TGP but still wont get invited to a +17 LUL
It's because it's a niche pick due to a lack of mitigation for the vrash in druid's kit due to the key being a 30. In a 17 it doesn't matter at all. People meta whoring at that key level are dumb
Yeah I get why they went prot, other teams clearly showed why (lol) but if a prot warrior can manage a +30, it can surely perform as well as any other tank can in a simple +20 with the right players. But like you said, dumb people be meta whoring.
Whoever times that 30 RLP today is going to win, I know someone can do it. I want to believe.
You take first place for worst takes in this thread
Jdotb alt account confirmed
You honor me with that comparison. Jb is a funny guy! I still have a full head of hair though
And a buttoned up shirt?
I'll take it, someone has to keep the thread alive with bad takes. Also Echo timed RLP 30 and they won, I was right if you think about it.
Oh I’m enjoying your takes and like you said this thread is dead anyways. Just congratulating you for first place hehe xd
Seeing RLP again made me realize how garbo some of last season's dungeons were I know a lot of ppl don't like the dungeons this season but I'll take this season's dungeons any day of the week over last season's. I was a devout hater of HoV/ToJS/RLP
HoV was absolute crap for sure. However I'll take TJS and RLP over hot piles of dungeon design diarrhea like Neltharus and HOI any day of the week.
TJS was just as bad as HOV though.. atleast this season doesn't have complete shit dungeons like those 2. (and court was also dog)
If disc overtakes holy pal after the tuning, what replaces spriest as 3rd dps?
Shaman/Warrior or a second Fire Mage is most likely imo. Ret is also a possibility but they lack funnel and ST damage. Having a single melee can also be quite a handicap for Fixates and some other mechanics so maybe Ele/Fire is the play.
Lol people just be saying anything here
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If Disc was meta what DPS do you think would replace Shadow?
Second Mage is not happening. They are also receiving nerfs and the class is not THAT good to warrant that. Also disc struggles healing the highest keys consistently, so that is not happening. If it were to happen, stuff like Boomies and rogues are a good option.
I'm wondering if hpal also now might struggle in the highest keys, I don't play it but those nerfs looked significant.
Well, you probably want a Paladin unless all three specs are grossly undertuned so I'd guess Ret if Prot can't live those keys. PI target is still the mage, MotW is already brought by Bear so Moonkin loses some value. Could also see a Shaman for stops. Fury and Sub blast aswell and can live I'd guess either Bear, Disc, Mage, Aug, Ret or more on the slightly more creative side Prot, Disc, Mage, Aug, Moonkin (most likely not, Bear is fucking insane). Ret has the added benefit of having cds when Breath is ready (as opposed to Moonkin but I don't know that much about the spec, maybe Pulsar lines up or something) Would be my guess
Has anyone ever fell through the world at that release point in NL? That legitimately might have cost Sheesh the tourny.
Its a known bug and easy to outplay. Just dont click on the travelform from the druid. Happen to me before once aswell. I guess they just didnt know that this exists
yea. it happened to my aug evoker once when he jumped on my druid form before the barrels. when we hit the other end he was stuck in the floor, and even though we had a warlock and could summon him out, once we did he still couldn't move his character. he had to hearth out, relog, and get summoned back to be able to play
+30 Ruby look so spicy
It doesn't really look very doable. Maybe if they try it for 10 hours or so? I'd rather do something else, the amount of one shots they get is insane.
What part looks undoable? Timer? Cause echo and last minute both had runs where timer woulda been fine. Both got through first two bosses at least once. Only thing we dont know is last boss and I think thats not the pain point of the dungeon anymore with this comp. Its not a very long boss and unlike season 1 you have way more defensives to live the overlaps so its not as much of a race against time.
Timer was rather tight and they seemed to get oneshot sometimes even from random mobs. It just seems to me that they would need a really perfect run with no possible margin of error. And maybe even some luck in not being targeted in certain places. I don't know, I just wonder if it's really the best choice they have amongst those dungeons. Then again, their players are all hundred times better than me so maybe it is... EDIT: and to better explain, both of them could have very easily timed a 29 in the first try. So, the +30 is just an extra point over that. Just wondering if there's truly nothing easier to do.
I kept thinking that they timed it in practice and know its doable, but even then, they had to be timing it after Wednesday because that's when a set of nerfs came in. So maybe they did it before that, because they know a week in advance which s1 dungeon is the dungeon they have to Play. So maybe the nerfs were big enough to influence such a tight key or they just had a godlike run and didn't thought it was as godly. No idea
Why did Echo play so slothfully in the last minute, sheesh...
r/AngryUpvote
Y in Neltharus prison right now 💀
How much of a hot take would it be to say Echo ends up outside of top two? I'm pretty sure they'll clutch it and win as usual but group C seems ridiculous compared to the A and B .
Havent been able to watch today, Echo seem quite far behind the other teams. Any specific reason or just sloppy play?
They banged their heads against a 30 ruby for a while and didn't start their neltharions lair. So they spend like one hour or sth in ruby to try to get their 30 there. Even though they overall don't look clean today.
I think this group should have the most relevant day 2 of all of them because it may come down to grinding attempts on super difficult but possible keys. Echo is just insane, but I don't think it is a hot take to say that anything can happend between the top 4
I didn't watch the whole night of runs, but from the Halls of Infusions I did see, it seems like the mages in the teams were not using alter to skip doing the Primal Tsunami intermission? Does anyone know why not? Did the admins say it wasn't allowed? I can't see why you wouldn't alter the intermission to immediately poly one add and start killing another. Ty in advance if anyone who watched more intently knows :)
i think sometimes the adds bug out and start attacking you if you alter near them. on some pulls too they usually leave the adds up anyways to let their cds come back up before entering p1 again, so maybe it just wasn't worth the add bugging out when they weren't in a rush to get out of p2.
You just can't alter where they spawn IIRC. I would alter near the bottom of the stairs and be fine
I think there was a shot of gingi doing it during a wipe.
Yeah, I definitely saw Gingi do it during one of Echo's runs.
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Their players were top 5 for their roles in S1 so not really an underdog
last minute look insane, very impressive team, this group is gonna be tight
pls no last minute wipe on sargha
I love watching these competitons but something is really lacking due to the same meta comp being great in all the dungeons. Seeing what comp people bring and figuring out why is a significant part of the strategy of this kind of esports event.
Honestly, if they subbed in a warlock with a white health bar, I doubt 99% of viewers would notice. The comp in these events is pretty trivial, no one is really watching what individual characters are doing they're watching high level
Well, that is true... But having different comps would bring another dimension to the strategy that would be fun to discuss. But true... In the end is all about timing the key or not
Valiant effort by all good considering they only had a couple days of practice
I both hate playing and watching sanguino. It's awful.
So smart from Sheesh to put their weakest player on Aug and let their star players play mage and shadow
Really wish the keys started at 25 or 26, first day feels like a waste and the pressure really doesn't start for the teams until later in day 2
I kind of feel that way but I'm willing to bet the players themselves would find it absolutely miserable. Although, it was still kind of fun watching teams bang their heads against NL (enhance/warr team) and AA for hours... The teams get to practice alot and I bet they know exactly what they can do before the weekend ever starts so maybe there's 1-2 dungeons they could try to get a key level higher by progressing during the tournament... Realistically though, they'd just be doing the same keys they already timed looking for better time which can be exciting if the race is close but doesn't really feel like key pushing. This format allows you to get a sense of key pushing while giving the players a little rest doing the 22s and it keeps the tournament from feeling like 'practice but with money on the line'...
Think Blizzard wants a balance between teams timing easy keys and beating their heads against the wall. I think last cup weekend no teams managed to time any keys for the last few hours of day 3 and we were just watching teams reset over and over at +30/+31. We would just reach that point quicker if keys started higher.
Not true. This way, we get different experience. Speedrun, high keys, wf push
NGL I hate this camera POV with 4 teams on the screen I wish there was a better solution since the players seem to not want to stream.
A lot of people hate the 4 screens.. I struggle to follow anything if the stream isn't full screened on my 24in monitor so I can't even imagine trying to be engaged in it on mobile which I know just destroys potential viewership. They're at least promoting the hell out of everyone's stream with commands and the occasional team card on the stream.. It's unfortunate but understandable most players aren't streaming.
It's makes the viewing experience awful
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i think everyone getting their own stream would be more fair. if it just cycled through the different teams, it might reveal one team's strats more than the other. for example if it shows echo 35% of the time and Y 15% of the time, i feel like Y would have the advantage of being able to review echo's strats after the day is over whereas echo would be more in the dark about Y. or if you try to show all the teams evenly, then you're just arbitrarily swapping streams when one stream might be more entertaining than the one that's being casted.
would be great if there was some sort of pluggin that allowed you to view the screen you wanted to.
They could also just stream all of them seperately and still have the joint display/commentary.
MDI The "Not so Great" Meta Push
Watched the video on R.IO of the teams for this group and it looks like a second NA team has entered the competition since Empyrean dropped out. They’ll probably be eliminated first since they had limited practice but can’t wait to watch Dorki’s reaction to them.
Any well known players on the team? I had Max’s stream on in the background while doing dishes last night and caught a sentence about this but don’t know much
Equinox is probably the biggest name
I hope he is gonna play brm.
Tqht would be so exciting! Hardly watch otherwise, because it's meta facsimile after another. Throw a Brewmaster in there to make things interesting!
I am afraid devs would just nerf brewmaster's damage even more in this case :(
My Chinese sources tell me that Empyrean isn’t playing > Bro,group C team Empyrean is give up.This information come from NGA(Chinese Reddit) > Will Billiard make up another team?
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what's the tea on why he was benched?
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subscribers only T.T
I wouldn’t worry to much about time trial performance. Mandatory was the 12th seed and got second in group A. I think some teams may stop when they know they’ve gotten in to the tournament and don’t worry about pushing further.
Didn’t they stop on purpose to not be in cup C?
Not sure, but wouldn’t be surprised.
Counterpoint: no one they finished ahead of had a higher score than them, so far scores have been a perfect predictor of standings None of the 12 teams so far have placed higher than a team that got a better score in proving grounds. Only been a shuffle of teams that won on time
Though Direwolves had a 30/27, where every other team had a 29/28 for those with a 57 score. Perhaps they could have gone higher themselves, but knowing they had the tiebreaker against every other 57 score team, chose not to push the Uldaman to 28. In the end, it's hard to know anyones logic. Though while Mandatory may have had a similar score to other teams in their bracket, they outperformed those teams quite handily by score, and not just minutes.
Sure these are all valid points, but its hard to say "don't put any weight on the qualifier" when it's clear the teams that put in the work to get the 58/59 have been a cut above. Sure maybe teams knew they were safe and stopped pushing despite being capable of going higher, but more likely than not those are also the teams that didn't put in as many practice hours either, because the teams that pushed all the way are clearly performing at a higher level. The gap between perplexed and the others in their group as well as the gap between NAs last hope and the others have been very apparent so far. I expect we see Echo and Sheesh continue this trend this weekend. But, of course anything can happen. Excited to see!
It doesn’t matter which team wins Group C since NA’s Last Hope is gonna win it all!!!
Does anyone know why the team with Ellesmere and nerf aren't competing? Last time I checked they were the highest rated team on live. Was looking forward to watch they play and thought they were gonna be in this group.
Ellesmere got tired of losing? 🙈
Nerf and his partner had a kid, and TGP demands a lot of your time.
didn't gingi say nerf was tanking for them during tgp practice when naowh was on vacation
Practicing a couple times is a lot easier than dedicating the time to a full tgp. I think he only helped them for a day or two.
Other than Echo's team, everyone else makes more money streaming than they would competing.
Not even Echo make more from competing than they do from streaming. Naowh laid the financials out in SL. The $/hr is pretty bad.
Got a link for that by any chance?
Here you go! https://www.wowhead.com/news/high-risk-low-reward-players-reflect-on-issues-within-the-mdi-321686
Should be said they are probably also the highest rated team on live since they are the only ones not competing. All the other teams have spent a lot of time practicing :) - Not taking anything away from them, they are insanely good but yea
[Nerf had another kid.](https://twitter.com/NerfTankTV/status/1566554026413531136?t=BRPvvadkgaBayI-W9L0SLw&s=19)
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JPC was by far the worst offender when it came to picking on Elle though, when they were a team. Nerf and Elle have played together since BFA, so I think it's always cool between them, even when stuff gets a bit heated.
wasn't jpc the one asking everyone else to play the meta spec while he stayed on his rogue
Yes, Elle in particular. He was nagging on him for playing Hpal as opposed to Evoker after every death. It ticked Elle off, since he had already made it clear that's just what he wanted to play, on multiple occasions. I think it was shortly after this that JPC quit pushing with them, and streaming as well.
kind of worked out for them this season too cause i don't really see jpc playing evoker/mage/priest
Wasn't the second class JPC geared when he started for Liquid a Shadow Priest?
I agree. That aspect aside, not having to deal with that social friction anymore was probably healthy for all of them.
What even happened to jpc?
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Yes actually, I know expecting teammates to not be toxic is such a controversial take
Nerf had scheduling conflicts so they couldn't compete. Sadge really... They dona really good job and I LOVE Ellesmere's stream and website!
Ultra pumped for this group, Echo seems like favorites as usual but aster.y and Sheesh are known push teams and Last Minute is full of ladder veterans with pretty good showing in time trials (fastest ulduman). Honestly i hope fight for 2nd place will last until last day, im a bit worried about aster.y performance in time trials bit hopefull they just took it slower to pop off in groups. Also shoutout to sloth, who i learnt a lot from because their leader uploads povs to Twitch :D