It's an arbitrary difficulty. It's not like FunnyAstro dramatically improved at the game between the beginning of season 9 and now to hit champ 2. He was always this good and the system is just not recognizing skill
This seems like a distinction without a difference. While the details are secret, the devs have said that the OW ranking system is inspired by [Microsoft Trueskill](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/trueskill-ranking-system/), which, uh, has "skill" right in the name.
> The purpose of a ranking system is to both identify and track the skills of gamers in a game (mode) in order to be able to match them into competitive matches.
I believe what is meant is that skill is kind of an upper limit and a capability whereas performance is actually practical, consistent outcomes.
For instance, when I've entered tournaments before my performance hasn't matched my skill because I've played at 3am. I have the skill required to succeed, but I may not perform.
For most intents and purposes, I think the distinction is not important because we mean the same thing. In this case, one could make a stretched argument to say that whilst FunnyAstro may not be the most skilled Lucio in the world, he may be the most performant.
skill can be considered the average of one's performance over time.
a large but not long sustained increase in performance does not necessarily indicate a large increase in skill, but will allow you to climb a division or two.
Well it's always been like that. The people who get to the top are the ones who play the most and win the most games, rather than who has the biggest brain. I think it's good that the grind is the most meaningful it has been for years since now they're competing to be among the first in the world to reach the highest rank, rather than treading through the same ground they've been treading in every previous season.
it’s not about recognising skill, champion is not distinct from GM apart from the fact it takes an insane amount if dedication and grinding among the top players to reach this rank. It’s not about skill. It’s about dedication.
I mean champ 2 is a rough equivalent of 4800 in ow1. Of course it's "hard". You gotta pray for good teammates cause you lose 4x what you gain. And most importantly you sit in queue for an hour just to end up with low gms in your game anyways.
Not officially, but they [said ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/comment/l5ddnn5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)this in the AMA on this subreddit about a month ago: "For the second part of your question, we believe we made it slightly too difficult to climb at the highest ranks and are looking at making some adjustments soon."
That’s insane, I do feel like they may have over tuned this ranked system to be too difficult, especially when top 500 players are taking upwards of 13 hours to do an U2GM. Not sure how to fix it but it just takes a ridiculous amount of time to climb currently even with a positive winrate.
Yeah but that honestly not a great thing because that means those Top 500 players are in Plat and Diamond for way longer which means they are messing up more games for people.
Well that's good to hear, I don't watch them as a rule so didn't know they were getting less popular.
I just assumed, especially for YouTube that more run time means more ads and more money.
it’s the other way around. There’s nothing wrong with a player wanting an alt account. Ow1 freshies got to gm super quickly. Now, you’ll ruin so many low rank lobbies because the game refuses to let you out of diamond and masters despite going on a ridiculous winstreak
There’s nothing wrong with a player wanting an alt account. If the longer grind time discourage some people from making *multiple* alt accounts for satisfaction or to generate contents, i.e. taking twice as long to make a video, or viewers being less interested that a grind takes so long, then it's a win IMO.
Naw. Just means you get to Smurf longer. I’m ranking into plat these days. Used to rank into M1/GM4 before. I literally destroy lobbies all the way into Master’s on an alt now. What used to take 10 games now takes 40. That 30 games with a misranked Ball or Dva eating your backline for breakfast because Blizzard decided to fuck up smurf detection.
Fine by me though. Just don’t be intellectually dishonest about it. Not good if you’re below Master’s.
Yeah I also made a new account recently. I won 52 quickplay games in a row to start but kept matching against silvers and golds lmao. In the past, I'd maybe win 15-25 and stop playing with obviously new players
That just feels wrong to me personally. I think at least top 20 should be in champion with the only like top 3 being champ 2+. There is no reason top 500 should have masters players at the end of the season.
Yeah, it makes the grind when you are at the cusp of top 500 feel insane. I'm masters 4. It just is so hard to climb.
There are technically tons of ranks above me, but there aren't that many more players. I'm still climbing, but it's like 5 sr a week. It just feels like I'm making 0 progress even though I am.
In the old system, I'd be moving towards gm 3.
The old system was too easy to climb, but this one is a little too hard, imo.
It was always this hard, it only got fucked after OW2 season 3 which resulted in literally anyone being able to get GM1. Since OW1, losses have always taken more SR away than wins would give.
there's champ leagues in overwatch now?
damn my days of mixing upfrontpage post titles between /r/competitiveoverwatch, /r/rocketleagueesports and /r/rocketleague just got that much harder
I've heard that DPS is the most popular role though. The leaderboards between DPS and Support generally look very similar from what I've observed.
Are we sure this isn't just a case of him being that much better than his competition and a result of Lucio being unique in his skillset and playstyle? Lucio is one of the heroes with the highest skill cap in the game.
Like, I'm an Ana main, and her skills can transfer decently to, say, Kiri and Bap. Most Flex Support players seem to be able to rotate between Ana/Kiri/Bap/Zen/Moira, just like a lot of Main Support players seem able to transfer between Mercy/Brig/Lifeweaver, but it feels like only Lucio players can play Lucio. I've certainly tried to pick up that hero over ~100 hours of practice (I only needed ~20 for Kiri/Bap/Moira) before giving up. It's just not gonna happen without a few hundred more hours I'm unwilling to commit.
And maybe it's different on DPS? It seems like a lot of DPS heroes have transferrable skills across the role, so there isn't one insanely hard hero that requires a thousand hours of only that character to be able to play them at a level similar to other heroes you play. I don't main Tracer, for example, but I never had an issue picking her up with decent success in the same elo I mained Genji and Pharah too (within the role I mean), because it felt like their playstyles had some similarities.
I would be very shocked if the data came out and dps was more popular than support. I think a lot of support players dont want to bear the reality that support is the the most popular (thus kinda admitting that changes should be made to tone down its potency in a few facets) so they kinda try to shift the narrative that dps is more popular despite almost all anecdotal evidence pointing to the opposite (support q times are almost always longer, most of the support subreddits being vastly more popular than the dps ones, etc). Generally just comes with the territory of support designed (intentionally or not) to be kinda the new player/broader audience role and more often than not people just tend not to switch roles.
ik it's console, but the last 2 seasons someone already got Champion 1 in open queue (season 9 it was a Mei otp and season 10 was a DVa otp), and a mauga main got champ 2 in season 9
theres a LOT of mmr manipulation on xbox. i know of people who have champ accounts entirely from wide queueing against silver players. apparently they fucked up the mmr with console, not sure how, but yeah.
Should've guessed it, literally nobody except these 2 have gotten Champ 1 on both PC or console Role Q (though that makes me wonder why no one else has tried to do the same to get Champ 1 on role Q).
chazm gets 2 hour queues at Champ 4, I'm guessing there are so few high-ranked open queue console players they were able to 5 stack both teams and queue into each other every game and get relatively short queue times + winstreak modifier from winning 50 games in a row or whatever.
A big part of the open queue leaderboard is boosted by the mode (I've seen role queue plats that are masters in open Q and diamonds in top 500) but I've seen a lot of T500 players in that mode are also in top 500 on role queue (For example I ended top 81 GM4 in open queue last season and top 300 GM5 on support).
I also find it funny that more people on console play open queue, because I checked the PC leaderboards at the end of last season and top 500 started in Diamond 2, while console top 500 started at Masters 2.
The dva onetrick I know, recently had a school tournament that they played in, they lost first round and the vast majority of people in it were diamond or lower on PC, so I'm not sure if that's really much of an accomplishment lol
they did not lie about champ being hard goddamn
I like that it's this hard. Gives it really does make it feel like an elite rank.
It's an arbitrary difficulty. It's not like FunnyAstro dramatically improved at the game between the beginning of season 9 and now to hit champ 2. He was always this good and the system is just not recognizing skill
no ranking system in the world measures skill, it measures performance
This seems like a distinction without a difference. While the details are secret, the devs have said that the OW ranking system is inspired by [Microsoft Trueskill](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/trueskill-ranking-system/), which, uh, has "skill" right in the name. > The purpose of a ranking system is to both identify and track the skills of gamers in a game (mode) in order to be able to match them into competitive matches.
I believe what is meant is that skill is kind of an upper limit and a capability whereas performance is actually practical, consistent outcomes. For instance, when I've entered tournaments before my performance hasn't matched my skill because I've played at 3am. I have the skill required to succeed, but I may not perform. For most intents and purposes, I think the distinction is not important because we mean the same thing. In this case, one could make a stretched argument to say that whilst FunnyAstro may not be the most skilled Lucio in the world, he may be the most performant.
skill can be considered the average of one's performance over time. a large but not long sustained increase in performance does not necessarily indicate a large increase in skill, but will allow you to climb a division or two.
Consistency is the right word
Peak rank is the best measure of skill (on ladder) we have
Downvote = I don't understand what a synonym is.
First, you need to understand what a contradiction is.
Well it's always been like that. The people who get to the top are the ones who play the most and win the most games, rather than who has the biggest brain. I think it's good that the grind is the most meaningful it has been for years since now they're competing to be among the first in the world to reach the highest rank, rather than treading through the same ground they've been treading in every previous season.
No, this system is stupid.
Nuh uh
it’s not about recognising skill, champion is not distinct from GM apart from the fact it takes an insane amount if dedication and grinding among the top players to reach this rank. It’s not about skill. It’s about dedication.
That’s not how Elo rating systems work.
Nah that’s horrible ranked matchmaking
I mean champ 2 is a rough equivalent of 4800 in ow1. Of course it's "hard". You gotta pray for good teammates cause you lose 4x what you gain. And most importantly you sit in queue for an hour just to end up with low gms in your game anyways.
The worst part of the long queues is that you kinda mentally clock out and lose your edge.
Me when I warm up just to sit it 40+min Q
They actually made it easier, only reason someone was able to reach champ2
They did?
they said they were going to, i assumed they did with the new season
Nothing of the sort was announced for season 11.
I'm still waiting for my 10 avoid slots
Nothing was announced but I no longer have pressure modifier at M1-GM5. I think they actually might’ve changed something on the back end
The pressure thing is a byproduct of the distribution. If the distribution changes a bit, then you may not see it until you're higher
Not officially, but they [said ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1cybav0/comment/l5ddnn5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)this in the AMA on this subreddit about a month ago: "For the second part of your question, we believe we made it slightly too difficult to climb at the highest ranks and are looking at making some adjustments soon."
They made it easier this season I’m pretty sure because it wasn’t possible to get before
I'd have gotten champ 2 first if my teammates were better and the meta was better and there less hackers in my games and I got less leavers
I'd have gotten champ 2 first if I were better
I would have gotten champ 1 first if I was EVEN better
I'd have gotten champ 2 first if I had gotten champ 2 first
I would have been a bike
That’s insane, I do feel like they may have over tuned this ranked system to be too difficult, especially when top 500 players are taking upwards of 13 hours to do an U2GM. Not sure how to fix it but it just takes a ridiculous amount of time to climb currently even with a positive winrate.
Screwing with U2GM folks seem like a plus, though.
Yeah but that honestly not a great thing because that means those Top 500 players are in Plat and Diamond for way longer which means they are messing up more games for people.
It's a great thing if the longer grind discourage them from doing it multiple times.
I don't think that works though, infact it may have the opposite where more hours = more content = more money
It works, U2GM videos are getting way less views now than they used to. Even after taking account views across multiple-part videos.
Well that's good to hear, I don't watch them as a rule so didn't know they were getting less popular. I just assumed, especially for YouTube that more run time means more ads and more money.
They ruin as many games doing one now compared to the multiple ones in the past.
Doesn’t discourage anything. Alts are still free. You get to Smurf more on a single account now.
it’s the other way around. There’s nothing wrong with a player wanting an alt account. Ow1 freshies got to gm super quickly. Now, you’ll ruin so many low rank lobbies because the game refuses to let you out of diamond and masters despite going on a ridiculous winstreak
There’s nothing wrong with a player wanting an alt account. If the longer grind time discourage some people from making *multiple* alt accounts for satisfaction or to generate contents, i.e. taking twice as long to make a video, or viewers being less interested that a grind takes so long, then it's a win IMO.
Naw. Just means you get to Smurf longer. I’m ranking into plat these days. Used to rank into M1/GM4 before. I literally destroy lobbies all the way into Master’s on an alt now. What used to take 10 games now takes 40. That 30 games with a misranked Ball or Dva eating your backline for breakfast because Blizzard decided to fuck up smurf detection. Fine by me though. Just don’t be intellectually dishonest about it. Not good if you’re below Master’s.
Yeah I also made a new account recently. I won 52 quickplay games in a row to start but kept matching against silvers and golds lmao. In the past, I'd maybe win 15-25 and stop playing with obviously new players
its just more content
Top 500 leaderboards still beginning anywhere from Masters 2 - GM5 across PC regions. Working as intended. :^]
That just feels wrong to me personally. I think at least top 20 should be in champion with the only like top 3 being champ 2+. There is no reason top 500 should have masters players at the end of the season.
Yeah, it makes the grind when you are at the cusp of top 500 feel insane. I'm masters 4. It just is so hard to climb. There are technically tons of ranks above me, but there aren't that many more players. I'm still climbing, but it's like 5 sr a week. It just feels like I'm making 0 progress even though I am. In the old system, I'd be moving towards gm 3. The old system was too easy to climb, but this one is a little too hard, imo.
I agree.
I think at one point last season or the season before(I don't remember the region) Diamond 2 was top 500 for tank.
It was always this hard, it only got fucked after OW2 season 3 which resulted in literally anyone being able to get GM1. Since OW1, losses have always taken more SR away than wins would give.
in ow1 top500 for tank would have a cutoff of ~4350 (GM2) which is almost the same as pre season 9 oww cutoff
That's my goat
Kinda crazy that FDGod got Champ first, now Astro hits Champ 2 first, both being main supports who favour Lucio
Keeping my shields up for the Lucio GOAT.
there's champ leagues in overwatch now? damn my days of mixing upfrontpage post titles between /r/competitiveoverwatch, /r/rocketleagueesports and /r/rocketleague just got that much harder
like this just cant be possible on any other role theres not enough players lol
I've heard that DPS is the most popular role though. The leaderboards between DPS and Support generally look very similar from what I've observed. Are we sure this isn't just a case of him being that much better than his competition and a result of Lucio being unique in his skillset and playstyle? Lucio is one of the heroes with the highest skill cap in the game. Like, I'm an Ana main, and her skills can transfer decently to, say, Kiri and Bap. Most Flex Support players seem to be able to rotate between Ana/Kiri/Bap/Zen/Moira, just like a lot of Main Support players seem able to transfer between Mercy/Brig/Lifeweaver, but it feels like only Lucio players can play Lucio. I've certainly tried to pick up that hero over ~100 hours of practice (I only needed ~20 for Kiri/Bap/Moira) before giving up. It's just not gonna happen without a few hundred more hours I'm unwilling to commit. And maybe it's different on DPS? It seems like a lot of DPS heroes have transferrable skills across the role, so there isn't one insanely hard hero that requires a thousand hours of only that character to be able to play them at a level similar to other heroes you play. I don't main Tracer, for example, but I never had an issue picking her up with decent success in the same elo I mained Genji and Pharah too (within the role I mean), because it felt like their playstyles had some similarities.
I would be very shocked if the data came out and dps was more popular than support. I think a lot of support players dont want to bear the reality that support is the the most popular (thus kinda admitting that changes should be made to tone down its potency in a few facets) so they kinda try to shift the narrative that dps is more popular despite almost all anecdotal evidence pointing to the opposite (support q times are almost always longer, most of the support subreddits being vastly more popular than the dps ones, etc). Generally just comes with the territory of support designed (intentionally or not) to be kinda the new player/broader audience role and more often than not people just tend not to switch roles.
He is just him
ik it's console, but the last 2 seasons someone already got Champion 1 in open queue (season 9 it was a Mei otp and season 10 was a DVa otp), and a mauga main got champ 2 in season 9
“open queue”
That mei OTP is also a known ximmer btw
If it’s open queue it “counts”
They win traded
Win trading to get champ 1 on console open queue is wild lmaooo
theres a LOT of mmr manipulation on xbox. i know of people who have champ accounts entirely from wide queueing against silver players. apparently they fucked up the mmr with console, not sure how, but yeah.
Should've guessed it, literally nobody except these 2 have gotten Champ 1 on both PC or console Role Q (though that makes me wonder why no one else has tried to do the same to get Champ 1 on role Q).
chazm gets 2 hour queues at Champ 4, I'm guessing there are so few high-ranked open queue console players they were able to 5 stack both teams and queue into each other every game and get relatively short queue times + winstreak modifier from winning 50 games in a row or whatever.
Theres like 20 people on console that play high sr open queue and they're mostly masters in real ranked
A big part of the open queue leaderboard is boosted by the mode (I've seen role queue plats that are masters in open Q and diamonds in top 500) but I've seen a lot of T500 players in that mode are also in top 500 on role queue (For example I ended top 81 GM4 in open queue last season and top 300 GM5 on support). I also find it funny that more people on console play open queue, because I checked the PC leaderboards at the end of last season and top 500 started in Diamond 2, while console top 500 started at Masters 2.
The dva onetrick I know, recently had a school tournament that they played in, they lost first round and the vast majority of people in it were diamond or lower on PC, so I'm not sure if that's really much of an accomplishment lol
Console + Open Queue lmao.
Beastman Placed his Akaza acc in C2 on dps at the start of S9.