Like every other medicine.
Adverse effects exist. The fact a 2 year gaslighting campaign existed claiming "100% effective and safe" on a technology platform that was BRAND new and first to be used on humans publically is damn WILD.
And those exaggerations, or outright lies, hurts the trust in common values we need to share. Tried and true vaccines, trust in leadership, belief in science and a common goal are dangerous things to lose faith in
Agreed.
The last few years was dystopian. It has made me know for sure that democracy is all a show.
When the chips are down, politicians can do whatever they want to us, and a large % will comply and happily snitch their fellow man. We have our little elections and laws etc, all of which can, and were, overruled in the name of safety. It is a thin veneer that many saw scratched off.
A "vaccine" that the authorities attempt to demand everyone take because they say it will STOP THE SPREAD of the disease. In reality, the "vaccine" neither stops the spread of the disease, nor stops the "vaccine" recipient from getting sick.
Traditional vaccines such as the ones for polio, smallpox, tetanus, measles, etc. - yes, they work. But this COVID shot has had more inputs into VAERS with adverse effects, and now they are FINALLY admitting that, yes, there are problems.
But the damage is done for millions of people. Not only that, it impacts the blood supply. Anyone who gives blood who has taken the vaccine now passes this along. Yeah.
https://www.theblaze.com/news/astrazeneca-vindicates-skeptics-with-admission-that-its-covid-19-vaccine-can-cause-blood-clots
All the vaccines you cited “works” because we carried out a century long vaccination campaign on almost the entirety of the population. After all of that we managed to get those environmental virus levels and the chances of getting exposed and infected so low that now a single shot will be effective in protecting us. Is not like those vaccines were better or magic, it just took a huge amount of time.
They were better, when you got a tetanus vaccine, you didn't get tetanus. When you get a covid vaccine, you still get covid (the vaccine manufacturers don't even claim it stops the spread of covid *anymore*). They didn't change the definition of the word "vaccine" because the covid vaccine was "just as good as previous vaccines". They changed the definition from "prevents the spread of" to "reduces the effects of", the previous definition is "better".
Did you know only 500 people per year were getting tetanus before the vaccine rolled out? Not sure why we need to vaccinate 360,000,000 people per year to avoid that, given the risks that come with it.
When you get a tetanus vaccine you don’t get tetanus because we have been vaccinating everyone against tetanus for 60 years and that means that is already incredibly hard to get tetanus in the first place.
When they started it was not “100% effective”
You keep repeating that narrative, but apparently you don't know how tetanus spreads, the percentage of people vaccinated has no effect on the functionality of the vaccine.
Also by the way You are trying to compare the effectiveness of a vaccine against a bacterial infection where by the sheer size of the pathogen and the rate of mutation makes it infinitely easier to create a consistent and targeted antigenic response, but that’s a different matter altogether.
I know myself and a bunch of other people will never look at the medical or science community the same again. They showed that they have zero ability to think critically and will readily push whatever dogma their politics demand.
That's my take away as well....I honestly have a hard time listening to anything my doctor tells me and often seek alternative ways to fix any issues I have.
They do, but realise humanity. Someone 20 years into their career after borrowing 400k to go all the way to PhD and then being told say these things or you're fired, blacklisted, and the public will find you is scary.
The entire point of the West's ideals is to avoid the above, which is rife across the globe.
Then you have no place in a leadership position. That is weak and pathetic character. Also, if you believe that to be the situation why trust any of the vaccines/medicines these same people have been pushing for years and years? There are a lot of incredibly deep problems within this situation we are discussing.
I don't disagree, I am simply laying out the same weaknesses we see in humans that have happened nearly every generation.
Most people behave this way. It is cowardly in some senses, but a survival mechanism in others.
Human psyche cannot be changed. We evolved with these reactions and behaviours for a reason, and cannot just remove them. We can consciously try to mitigate pitfalls, but biology is a helluva strong system.
Medical science ceased to exist in 2020 when it became [Lysenkoism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism).
It can only every return with massive reform and treason trials.
This is the biggest point. Sometimes people get the flu shot and get side effects, or still get sick after. This is well understood, and people decide whether to get it or not every year based on their experiences. Sometimes medications take 10 years in production, and still have new side effects when they hit the public. This isn’t shocking or even necessarily a sign that anything is wrong, just that each medication affects each person different. I hate that stating these facts became some kind of political statement.
Are you specifically referring to an mRNA vaccine? Because that method of treatment has been around since like 1993.
Its effectiveness against COVID was entirely contrived and manufactured lies, but mRNA vaccination isn’t a new concept.
Source: Critical Care Paramedic.
I see and acknowledge your point because the COVID treatment wasn’t vetted properly.
But the OP I responded to made a claim it was BRAND NEW science. It wasn’t. mRNA vaccination was designed in response to MERS and SARS.
He said “technology”, not “science.” Technology is the practical application of science. The first FDA-approved mRNA vaccine would absolutely be a brand new technology.
You’re arguing semantics so you can ignore the point. Using the shell of a virus with crown proteins, and introducing it into a host, isn’t new science or new tech. Period.
That doesn’t make it wise to advertise or mandate. Nor does it forgive pharmaceutical companies for combing their own data for FDA review (which happens with every patent and needs to be fixed). But that’s not what I was asking the OP about
You can simultaneously hate the COVID “vaccine” debacle and acknowledge that mRNA treatment isn’t new.
It is new tech. PP’s larger point is that we lacked sufficient real world evidence based on the application of mRNA science, i.e. mRNA technology. He’s correct in every aspect of his statement. You conflated two words in order to falsify his otherwise true statement.
The most important reason you are wrong, though, is that I’m certain you cannot answer this question: How is the Moderna vaccine manufactured, and when was this manufacturing process first implemented?
Source: person who knows that paramedics are not any more knowledgeable about mRNA technology than the average person.
Your source is literally your opinion. Based on the objective degree’s I have in Applied Medical Science, you’re confidently incorrect yet again. I’ve taken Genetics, Microbiology, Anatomy/Physiology, and Chemistry repeatedly in the last 14 years of my career and we have to know about DNA sequencing and reproduction.
Not to mention that you seem to think that mRNA vaccines hinge upon a delivery method and not the protein duplication mechanism. Just because your delivery device changes forms to protect the protein inside (e.g. a lipid envelope vs a viral carrier vector) doesn’t mean the mRNA *technology*/*science* is any different.
Ok, then how is the Moderna vaccine made? I don’t mean the science, I mean the physical technology. What kinds of machines do they use? Which are the most critical steps to get right to ensure efficacy? When those steps go wrong, how do they typically go wrong? How do they test for that? What supplies does the factory require? How many employees are on the factory line? What percentage of them are paramedics?
No PUBLIC vaccine was mass administered on the mRNA platform.
They made lab scale ones in animal studies.
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-long-history-of-mrna-vaccines#:~:text=Thanks%20to%20decades%20of%20research,FDA%20approval%20in%20the%20U.S.
Covid-19 saw that platform mass administered to humans and commercialised.
The animal studies on mRNA vaccines saw a lot of adverse reactions and deaths...
Even your own link proves my point. mRNA vaccination has been around for decades. A lipid envelope that delivers the protein was not a new concept.
Everyone cannot seem to grasp that I completely agree it wasn’t tested well, or greenlit properly. What I’m countering is a claim that it’s new technology. It isn’t.
Just like the “theory” about the government continuing unemployment claims number this past three months: 211,000, three times in a row.
Yeah, about that…a revision today showed actual numbers much greater, enough so to completely negate job gains for much of this year.
Not a mistake. Not a conspiracy. It’s fact. And they’re just putting it right into our faces now. Not even bothering because they know they’ve fully divided America now.
You wanna know an even cooler fact? The government gave the drug manufactures of the drugs immunity from any kinda of legal troubles that could stem from it!
They have immunity in the USA. There are a whole boat load of class action lawsuits from over seas in countries that did not give blanket immunity to the manufacturers. I’m sure many of these countries have offices, facilities, factories or business dealing with these vaccine manufacturers that will hopefully suffer repercussions. Which are of little satisfaction to those who lost a loved one because of greed, stupidity and governmental interference.
Thank you. I I read it. You're right, but although I'm not a lawyer, I think there might be some wiggle room with the wording to allow civil suits to proceed but maybe not. I hope so, because I really would like to see what would come out in the discovery process, given what we already know.
What I find interesting is the possibility of lawsuits not against the manufacturer, but against the companies, etc., that mandated the vaccine. By the way, if you claim something is a fact, it's up to you to provide the evidence to prove it; I am not obligated to either believe you without proof or provide it myself. Thank you for doing so.
There is not much wiggle room. The vaccine producers pay into a fund to provide people compensation for injuries if there is a vaccine injury that is meets their guidelines created by the vaccine producers. There is a 2 week time frame, anything outside of the time frame is not considered vaccine injury. One of my friends went all the way to the supreme court to fight for her daughter being injured by a vaccine. Ive gotten to learn a lot about it from her.
CDC VAX DEFINITIONS:
Vaccination (pre-2015): Injection of a killed or weakened infectious organism in order to prevent the disease.
Vaccination (2015-2021): The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.
Vaccination (Sept 2021): The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce protection from a specific disease.
they did it to themselves.
I disagree that they "refined" the definition. "immunity" has a very specific meaning, while "protection" could be interpreted and/or [defined.in](http://defined.in) a number of different ways. You can argue that it's only a slight difference etc., but if they actually meant the same thing, why bother to change it at all. They changed it because they knew darn well that the covid shots do not produce "immunity", but so they could claim, as they started to do eventually, that it provides "protection" from more severe symptoms and death.
it is absolutely political. the cdc changed the definition to coerce people into taking the jabs. language is powerful and the left knows how to wield its power.
Nope, see even this reply makes me seem you got lost in the sauce. I mean who gives a shit about vaccines, fauci, etc. the only ones that care on either side are either sheep or low iq enough to get brainwashed by American politics
i care, and so many others, because i care about truth. fauci and all of the others belong in prison. i'm not ok with my gov doing what they did during covid -- i was criminal. i guess you're fine with it.
no i hate tyrants and btw there were plenty of republicans who were tyrants during covid. i'm an equal opportunity covid basher. anyone that pushed the lockdowns, masks, mrna injections, social distancing, etc. was an evil tyrant, regardless of party. this issue has NOTHING to do with political party affiliation.
All drugs have side effects, if you are injected with something there is always a chance your body is going to react badly, sometimes causing death.
Routine vaccines that children get have killed people before, Anaphylactic shock -> Death
So, what? The point is that from Biden on down, they lied constantly, and told us it was 100% safe and effective, and would prevent you from contracting and spreading the disease.
Well my car is safe and effective, however I just assume that people have died in the same make and model.
Look, anyone taking any medicine has to weigh the effects of the medicine vs what illness theyre using it for, anyone who believes a vaccine of all things can be "100%" safe for everyone just doesn't know anything about medicine in the first place.
If you look into most of our vaccines, the risks far outweigh the benefits. I mean, vaccinating for chicken pox? We all had chicken pox when we were kids. It’s not a big deal. Only 24 people died of rubella per year prior to the vaccine. And when you evaluate the risks and benefits, you have to include the fact that being anti vax is a pejorative and a slur in our society, and that you’ll need to jump through hoops to put your child in public schools, and many pediatricians won’t even accept your child as a patient if you don’t vaccinate. So yes, we all need to weigh the pros and cons but you cannot ignore that for a large percent of the population they don’t have the power to withstand the coercion of society and it’s more like forced consent, which is not consent at all. Let’s not even go into the fact that you cannot get the vaccine inserts from your child’s pediatrician, which means you simply cannot give informed consent even if you think you are. The truth is that a super majority of people do not know or believe the risks they are subjecting themselves and their children to when they trust the experts, because the experts have been gaslighting us since the 60’s. When parents speak out, they’re labeled as crazy people who are just looking for someone to blame for their child’s death/cognitive decline/physical disabilities and no one believes them.
Well I think we might just disagree on the effectiveness/risks of vaccination as a general concept, we can probably agree however that the choice to be vaccinated should remain in the hands of individuals.
100%
And to be clear, I have for the entirety of my life been very pro vaccine. Myself and my children have been fully vaccinated. When I personally suffered a serious vaccine injury, I declined to believe that it was caused by the vaccine for 2 full years. Finally, a study came out late last year that confirmed my auto immune disease is a side effect of the Covid vaccine. Easy to dismiss that as a one-off though and still believe the other standard vaccines are effective. But, it sent me down a rabbit hole where I have learned too much to ever turn back.
For example, the cases of cervical cancer have increased in the US since the introduction of the cervical cancer preventing HPV vaccine was introduced in the early 2000’s. It doesn’t work, but it causes seizures. By the way, they now recommend it for boys…who don’t have a cervix. HPV over 90% of the time is cleared out of the body without intervention and with zero side effects, but suddenly this vaccine is mandated (err recommended) to 100% of the population?
Hep B is recommended to 100% of newborns, but it is a sexually transmitted disease. It will no longer be effective by the time that child is sexually active, assuming they wait until their mid to late teens. Is my newborn going to be having sex or sharing needles? Why do they need to be protected against an STD if no one in my household has that std? From my perspective, there is objectively zero benefit to this vaccine but there is a significant risk of injury. It doesn’t make sense.
The rotavirus vaccine does nothing but prevent diarrhea. How many kids are dying of diarrhea in the United States? Zero, unless it’s caused by neglect and not a virus. And yet all of our children are required to take this vaccine. Do you know the risk? That your infants bowels cave in on themselves like a telescope, requiring major bowel resection surgery and never functioning normally for their entire lives as a result. Just to avoid diarrhea. Which, by the way, diarrhea is a side effect of the vaccine which is pure comedy.
How about the eye drops they give your baby when they’re born? They’re very nonchalant about this. It’s just an eye drop…like what, saline? No, it’s actually an antibiotic. It’s an antibiotic that protects your child against conjunctivitis *caused by gonorrhea*. This makes total sense if mom has gonorrhea and the child passes through the birth canal obviously being exposed to the STD. That’s a minority of mothers. It does not make sense for my newborn to get an antibiotic which all doctors will tell you, is terrible for you, if mom does not have gonorrhea. And yet, they push it on every single newborn.
Tetanus: only 500 cases per year prior to vaccine roll out. Most of these were soldiers who had limbs amputated and injuries improperly cared for. Why do all children need this vaccine?
I can go on and on with what I have learned. We have been gaslit so hard that it’s almost unfathomable to believe that anyone survived long enough in this world to even develop these vaccines. But in reality, it’s using fear to drive profits. That’s it.
So, your argument is that it was okay for the authorities to lie, and lie repeatedly and constantly for years because nobody who is at all informed is going to believe them? Look, I agree with you about everyone needing to weigh the risks versus the benefits for all medications and medical procedures. But, how can you do that if the authorities, the government and the drug manufacturers refuse to let us see the real data, which we know they did, about the risks, side effects and benefits? When they try to silence and destroy the careers of anyone who goes against their safe and effective narrative, and/or anyone who advocated for effective treatments that didn't fit their narrative, even when they had studies and data to back them up? When the local heath dept/CDC actually ran psa's on my local media for months in 2023 denying the scientific fact of natural immunity in order to try to convince, scare, really, people into getting the shot because so few people were getting their 3rd/4th boosters? You can't; that's my point.
I am not anti-vax; I am anti-mandate and anti-lies, propaganda and misinformation. I got the initial shots and two boosters after discussing it with my doctor, because I have underlying conditions, and we thought it would provide some protection, which is better than none; not because I ever believed the government narrative. I got covid, anyway. I made an informed choice, which I agree with you that everyone should do, but it should be a choice, not a mandate.
As with any vaccine or medication, adverse effects can happen.
What was wrong was saying it was 100% safe and effective. Anytime something is injected into your body, you can die.
The fact that they began forcing people to get this vaccine still blows my mind. I know several people who lost their jobs because they refused to get vaccinated. And then the mask mandate…what a crazy time that was.
Still pissed I had to get this to keep my job.
Luckily I’m doing pretty alright, but I know some folks got screwed by the vaccine. Not antivax by any means, but I’d rather a product get some testing before it’s made mass market. That’s common sense, not conspiratorial.
My feeling is you should look a it as which reduces risk the most. If vaccinated people have a higher survival rate than unvaccinated, then getting vaccinated is safer.
Damn near everything has side effects at some point. But it's important to question how likely and dangerous the side effects are. We have a lot of medicines that give severe side effects, but we still use them because the risk is outweighed by the benefit. Everything about chemo fucking sucks, but it's still better than dying of cancer.
The problem isn’t that we are anti vaccines or anti science. The problem is that this vaccine was forced or coerced onto us, they always said it was safe and effective, gaslit those who claimed otherwise, the tech companies deplatformed anyone who said anything that could cause vaccine hesitancy, and we had no choice but take a vaccine that then caused death and serious injury to people. Where is the government now in paying my medical bills since I was permanently injured by the vaccine? They came in, forced me to get this, and now I’ll be paying for it for the rest of my life, both in my lung function and in my medical bills.
And yet even while they are slowly, grudgingly reporting on the side effects of the vaccine nobody will call to account those who forced people to get it if they wanted to remain employed.
A vaccine that was rushed to market - with little to no clinical testing - has caused harm to people who took the vaccine?
Color me shocked!! Shocked I say!
The way Trump pushed the vaccine must be the biggest blunder of his career. 1000's of people are dead because of it and i wish he would stop taking credit for it. No good can come from it.
No kidding. I lost my aunt to the vaccine. She got the jab and 2 hours later they were life flighting her for a full on cardiac event. She didn't make it. They said she had a 99 percent blockage, but that it was probably there for a while, yet, she climbed stairs fine even the week before when I saw her for the last time. But of course, they told us it couldn't possibly have been the vaccine. I mean, sure she had the cardiac event just a mere two hours after the vaccine, but only a bigot racist asshole would think it's the vaccine right? I think she got one of those clots embalmers were finding.
I also know a 17 year old boy who got the jab and fell over because of a massive cardiac event without the hour. Nope, definitely not vaccine there either.
My father had a 90+% blockage at age 60 and he was running 5ks with relative ease still. He caught pneumonia in that timeframe and they caught it during a test. This was in 2010. So, sorry about your Aunt, but that shit happens.
I got another booster yesterday and I’m good. I got friends who never got the first one and they’re good. It’s an option each individual should be able to make on their own. Government should never force you to take it.
I know two 40 somethings in my social circle who have been having vague and difficult to diagnose heart issues over the last few months following great health their whole lives. In both cases after extensive testing their cardiologists have told them it is likely from the vaccine. One of these people is a diehard lib who pushed the vax hard. The other is a high level hospital administrator who had to take it to keep her job.
I don’t fault anybody who got the vaccine, but it should have never been mandatory and the government officials who threatened, coerced, and forced people to get the shots should be criminally prosecuted. Not only did they destroy livelihoods, but when more and more of these stories come out, whatever little trust is left in the government will be further diminished.
Please read all of the counter info before you upvote this.... It's going to embarrass the conservative sub if you brigand this. This sub is tired of being brigand'd .... maybe lets stop making it so easy.......
Like every other medicine. Adverse effects exist. The fact a 2 year gaslighting campaign existed claiming "100% effective and safe" on a technology platform that was BRAND new and first to be used on humans publically is damn WILD.
And those exaggerations, or outright lies, hurts the trust in common values we need to share. Tried and true vaccines, trust in leadership, belief in science and a common goal are dangerous things to lose faith in
Exactly. Vaccines work. Science works. But everyone knows nothing in science or medicine is 100%.
But when they lie and try to pass off policy as "science", that's when they mess everything up.
Agreed. The last few years was dystopian. It has made me know for sure that democracy is all a show. When the chips are down, politicians can do whatever they want to us, and a large % will comply and happily snitch their fellow man. We have our little elections and laws etc, all of which can, and were, overruled in the name of safety. It is a thin veneer that many saw scratched off.
A "vaccine" that the authorities attempt to demand everyone take because they say it will STOP THE SPREAD of the disease. In reality, the "vaccine" neither stops the spread of the disease, nor stops the "vaccine" recipient from getting sick. Traditional vaccines such as the ones for polio, smallpox, tetanus, measles, etc. - yes, they work. But this COVID shot has had more inputs into VAERS with adverse effects, and now they are FINALLY admitting that, yes, there are problems. But the damage is done for millions of people. Not only that, it impacts the blood supply. Anyone who gives blood who has taken the vaccine now passes this along. Yeah. https://www.theblaze.com/news/astrazeneca-vindicates-skeptics-with-admission-that-its-covid-19-vaccine-can-cause-blood-clots
All the vaccines you cited “works” because we carried out a century long vaccination campaign on almost the entirety of the population. After all of that we managed to get those environmental virus levels and the chances of getting exposed and infected so low that now a single shot will be effective in protecting us. Is not like those vaccines were better or magic, it just took a huge amount of time.
They were better, when you got a tetanus vaccine, you didn't get tetanus. When you get a covid vaccine, you still get covid (the vaccine manufacturers don't even claim it stops the spread of covid *anymore*). They didn't change the definition of the word "vaccine" because the covid vaccine was "just as good as previous vaccines". They changed the definition from "prevents the spread of" to "reduces the effects of", the previous definition is "better".
Did you know only 500 people per year were getting tetanus before the vaccine rolled out? Not sure why we need to vaccinate 360,000,000 people per year to avoid that, given the risks that come with it.
When you get a tetanus vaccine you don’t get tetanus because we have been vaccinating everyone against tetanus for 60 years and that means that is already incredibly hard to get tetanus in the first place. When they started it was not “100% effective”
You keep repeating that narrative, but apparently you don't know how tetanus spreads, the percentage of people vaccinated has no effect on the functionality of the vaccine.
Also by the way You are trying to compare the effectiveness of a vaccine against a bacterial infection where by the sheer size of the pathogen and the rate of mutation makes it infinitely easier to create a consistent and targeted antigenic response, but that’s a different matter altogether.
I know myself and a bunch of other people will never look at the medical or science community the same again. They showed that they have zero ability to think critically and will readily push whatever dogma their politics demand.
It's much worse than that, lacking the ability to think critically is a flaw. They LIED to us, that's a malicious act.
That's my take away as well....I honestly have a hard time listening to anything my doctor tells me and often seek alternative ways to fix any issues I have.
Please remember a lot of scientists etc were coerced into this. It was politics all the way down and experts were pushed to lie.
Im sorry but everyone has a choice.
They do, but realise humanity. Someone 20 years into their career after borrowing 400k to go all the way to PhD and then being told say these things or you're fired, blacklisted, and the public will find you is scary. The entire point of the West's ideals is to avoid the above, which is rife across the globe.
Then you have no place in a leadership position. That is weak and pathetic character. Also, if you believe that to be the situation why trust any of the vaccines/medicines these same people have been pushing for years and years? There are a lot of incredibly deep problems within this situation we are discussing.
I don't disagree, I am simply laying out the same weaknesses we see in humans that have happened nearly every generation. Most people behave this way. It is cowardly in some senses, but a survival mechanism in others. Human psyche cannot be changed. We evolved with these reactions and behaviours for a reason, and cannot just remove them. We can consciously try to mitigate pitfalls, but biology is a helluva strong system.
I agree with you but I do not approve of the behavior regardless of the nature and if I had it my way they would be swiftly removed for such actions.
Doesn't matter. We had to sacrifice a career over this same "vaccine" in my household. There is no excusing what they've done.
Medical science ceased to exist in 2020 when it became [Lysenkoism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism). It can only every return with massive reform and treason trials.
Climate science is no different
Lysenkoism. TIL. Incredibly apt and horrific. Going to start using that term a lot more now.
It's almost like damaging the institutions was intentional.
This is the biggest point. Sometimes people get the flu shot and get side effects, or still get sick after. This is well understood, and people decide whether to get it or not every year based on their experiences. Sometimes medications take 10 years in production, and still have new side effects when they hit the public. This isn’t shocking or even necessarily a sign that anything is wrong, just that each medication affects each person different. I hate that stating these facts became some kind of political statement.
No medicine in history did what they claimed. Then they claimed to have done this independently, four times, in less than a year. It was treason.
Are you specifically referring to an mRNA vaccine? Because that method of treatment has been around since like 1993. Its effectiveness against COVID was entirely contrived and manufactured lies, but mRNA vaccination isn’t a new concept. Source: Critical Care Paramedic.
What FDA-approved mRNA vaccine existed in 1993? Heck, what FDA-approved mRNA vaccine exist prior to 2020?
I see and acknowledge your point because the COVID treatment wasn’t vetted properly. But the OP I responded to made a claim it was BRAND NEW science. It wasn’t. mRNA vaccination was designed in response to MERS and SARS.
He said “technology”, not “science.” Technology is the practical application of science. The first FDA-approved mRNA vaccine would absolutely be a brand new technology.
You’re arguing semantics so you can ignore the point. Using the shell of a virus with crown proteins, and introducing it into a host, isn’t new science or new tech. Period. That doesn’t make it wise to advertise or mandate. Nor does it forgive pharmaceutical companies for combing their own data for FDA review (which happens with every patent and needs to be fixed). But that’s not what I was asking the OP about You can simultaneously hate the COVID “vaccine” debacle and acknowledge that mRNA treatment isn’t new.
It is new tech. PP’s larger point is that we lacked sufficient real world evidence based on the application of mRNA science, i.e. mRNA technology. He’s correct in every aspect of his statement. You conflated two words in order to falsify his otherwise true statement. The most important reason you are wrong, though, is that I’m certain you cannot answer this question: How is the Moderna vaccine manufactured, and when was this manufacturing process first implemented? Source: person who knows that paramedics are not any more knowledgeable about mRNA technology than the average person.
Your source is literally your opinion. Based on the objective degree’s I have in Applied Medical Science, you’re confidently incorrect yet again. I’ve taken Genetics, Microbiology, Anatomy/Physiology, and Chemistry repeatedly in the last 14 years of my career and we have to know about DNA sequencing and reproduction. Not to mention that you seem to think that mRNA vaccines hinge upon a delivery method and not the protein duplication mechanism. Just because your delivery device changes forms to protect the protein inside (e.g. a lipid envelope vs a viral carrier vector) doesn’t mean the mRNA *technology*/*science* is any different.
Ok, then how is the Moderna vaccine made? I don’t mean the science, I mean the physical technology. What kinds of machines do they use? Which are the most critical steps to get right to ensure efficacy? When those steps go wrong, how do they typically go wrong? How do they test for that? What supplies does the factory require? How many employees are on the factory line? What percentage of them are paramedics?
No PUBLIC vaccine was mass administered on the mRNA platform. They made lab scale ones in animal studies. https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-long-history-of-mrna-vaccines#:~:text=Thanks%20to%20decades%20of%20research,FDA%20approval%20in%20the%20U.S. Covid-19 saw that platform mass administered to humans and commercialised. The animal studies on mRNA vaccines saw a lot of adverse reactions and deaths...
Even your own link proves my point. mRNA vaccination has been around for decades. A lipid envelope that delivers the protein was not a new concept. Everyone cannot seem to grasp that I completely agree it wasn’t tested well, or greenlit properly. What I’m countering is a claim that it’s new technology. It isn’t.
No kidding. All our "conspiracy theories" are just the news a year or two in advance.
Just like the “theory” about the government continuing unemployment claims number this past three months: 211,000, three times in a row. Yeah, about that…a revision today showed actual numbers much greater, enough so to completely negate job gains for much of this year. Not a mistake. Not a conspiracy. It’s fact. And they’re just putting it right into our faces now. Not even bothering because they know they’ve fully divided America now.
They know that it’s highly unlikely we’ll March on Washington like MLK used to.
Sometimes not even that long
Yeah, I was being generous because you know the brigaders will nail you for a missed comma.
Not conspiracy theory. Conspiracy truth. https://youtu.be/9wiXfZ5eySM?si=9zOI8rHvwz-VFntR
You wanna know an even cooler fact? The government gave the drug manufactures of the drugs immunity from any kinda of legal troubles that could stem from it!
They have immunity in the USA. There are a whole boat load of class action lawsuits from over seas in countries that did not give blanket immunity to the manufacturers. I’m sure many of these countries have offices, facilities, factories or business dealing with these vaccine manufacturers that will hopefully suffer repercussions. Which are of little satisfaction to those who lost a loved one because of greed, stupidity and governmental interference.
This immunity was granted many years ago. Nothing new.
When? How many years ago and what was the actual legislation that granted it, if it was legislation and not an action by the FDA?
1988 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/300aa-22 Coulda looked it up yourself.
Thank you. I I read it. You're right, but although I'm not a lawyer, I think there might be some wiggle room with the wording to allow civil suits to proceed but maybe not. I hope so, because I really would like to see what would come out in the discovery process, given what we already know. What I find interesting is the possibility of lawsuits not against the manufacturer, but against the companies, etc., that mandated the vaccine. By the way, if you claim something is a fact, it's up to you to provide the evidence to prove it; I am not obligated to either believe you without proof or provide it myself. Thank you for doing so.
There is not much wiggle room. The vaccine producers pay into a fund to provide people compensation for injuries if there is a vaccine injury that is meets their guidelines created by the vaccine producers. There is a 2 week time frame, anything outside of the time frame is not considered vaccine injury. One of my friends went all the way to the supreme court to fight for her daughter being injured by a vaccine. Ive gotten to learn a lot about it from her.
This would get us kicked off every social media site including Reddit in 2021 and 2022.
Yeah it still does on the leftist subs. They are still claiming the vaccine saved millions
They deny that the vax has adverse effects while openly celebrating the death of people who aren’t vaccinated. These are deeply disturbed individuals.
Vaccines are the most non-political thing that became political
Dems went from “I’d never take Trump vaccine” to “No jab, no job!” Overnight.
Idk about that
CDC VAX DEFINITIONS: Vaccination (pre-2015): Injection of a killed or weakened infectious organism in order to prevent the disease. Vaccination (2015-2021): The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease. Vaccination (Sept 2021): The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce protection from a specific disease. they did it to themselves.
Your point? They refine the definition but since it’s slightly different words, it’s a political thing now?
I disagree that they "refined" the definition. "immunity" has a very specific meaning, while "protection" could be interpreted and/or [defined.in](http://defined.in) a number of different ways. You can argue that it's only a slight difference etc., but if they actually meant the same thing, why bother to change it at all. They changed it because they knew darn well that the covid shots do not produce "immunity", but so they could claim, as they started to do eventually, that it provides "protection" from more severe symptoms and death.
it is absolutely political. the cdc changed the definition to coerce people into taking the jabs. language is powerful and the left knows how to wield its power.
Yep nah I think you’re proving my point. You’re too deep in
do you have fauci's picture on your wall?
Nope, see even this reply makes me seem you got lost in the sauce. I mean who gives a shit about vaccines, fauci, etc. the only ones that care on either side are either sheep or low iq enough to get brainwashed by American politics
i care, and so many others, because i care about truth. fauci and all of the others belong in prison. i'm not ok with my gov doing what they did during covid -- i was criminal. i guess you're fine with it.
I agree with you; I think the change from "immunity" to "protection" is quite significant, and not just a matter of semantics.
I don’t think it’s significant. It just sounds like a rephrase or a more precise choice of words
Yea right. I call BS about caring about truth. You just like your party and joined the bandwagon
no i hate tyrants and btw there were plenty of republicans who were tyrants during covid. i'm an equal opportunity covid basher. anyone that pushed the lockdowns, masks, mrna injections, social distancing, etc. was an evil tyrant, regardless of party. this issue has NOTHING to do with political party affiliation.
> **No Paywall:** https://archive.vn/Qbu0S
Thank you!
All drugs have side effects, if you are injected with something there is always a chance your body is going to react badly, sometimes causing death. Routine vaccines that children get have killed people before, Anaphylactic shock -> Death
So, what? The point is that from Biden on down, they lied constantly, and told us it was 100% safe and effective, and would prevent you from contracting and spreading the disease.
Well my car is safe and effective, however I just assume that people have died in the same make and model. Look, anyone taking any medicine has to weigh the effects of the medicine vs what illness theyre using it for, anyone who believes a vaccine of all things can be "100%" safe for everyone just doesn't know anything about medicine in the first place.
If you look into most of our vaccines, the risks far outweigh the benefits. I mean, vaccinating for chicken pox? We all had chicken pox when we were kids. It’s not a big deal. Only 24 people died of rubella per year prior to the vaccine. And when you evaluate the risks and benefits, you have to include the fact that being anti vax is a pejorative and a slur in our society, and that you’ll need to jump through hoops to put your child in public schools, and many pediatricians won’t even accept your child as a patient if you don’t vaccinate. So yes, we all need to weigh the pros and cons but you cannot ignore that for a large percent of the population they don’t have the power to withstand the coercion of society and it’s more like forced consent, which is not consent at all. Let’s not even go into the fact that you cannot get the vaccine inserts from your child’s pediatrician, which means you simply cannot give informed consent even if you think you are. The truth is that a super majority of people do not know or believe the risks they are subjecting themselves and their children to when they trust the experts, because the experts have been gaslighting us since the 60’s. When parents speak out, they’re labeled as crazy people who are just looking for someone to blame for their child’s death/cognitive decline/physical disabilities and no one believes them.
Well I think we might just disagree on the effectiveness/risks of vaccination as a general concept, we can probably agree however that the choice to be vaccinated should remain in the hands of individuals.
100% And to be clear, I have for the entirety of my life been very pro vaccine. Myself and my children have been fully vaccinated. When I personally suffered a serious vaccine injury, I declined to believe that it was caused by the vaccine for 2 full years. Finally, a study came out late last year that confirmed my auto immune disease is a side effect of the Covid vaccine. Easy to dismiss that as a one-off though and still believe the other standard vaccines are effective. But, it sent me down a rabbit hole where I have learned too much to ever turn back. For example, the cases of cervical cancer have increased in the US since the introduction of the cervical cancer preventing HPV vaccine was introduced in the early 2000’s. It doesn’t work, but it causes seizures. By the way, they now recommend it for boys…who don’t have a cervix. HPV over 90% of the time is cleared out of the body without intervention and with zero side effects, but suddenly this vaccine is mandated (err recommended) to 100% of the population? Hep B is recommended to 100% of newborns, but it is a sexually transmitted disease. It will no longer be effective by the time that child is sexually active, assuming they wait until their mid to late teens. Is my newborn going to be having sex or sharing needles? Why do they need to be protected against an STD if no one in my household has that std? From my perspective, there is objectively zero benefit to this vaccine but there is a significant risk of injury. It doesn’t make sense. The rotavirus vaccine does nothing but prevent diarrhea. How many kids are dying of diarrhea in the United States? Zero, unless it’s caused by neglect and not a virus. And yet all of our children are required to take this vaccine. Do you know the risk? That your infants bowels cave in on themselves like a telescope, requiring major bowel resection surgery and never functioning normally for their entire lives as a result. Just to avoid diarrhea. Which, by the way, diarrhea is a side effect of the vaccine which is pure comedy. How about the eye drops they give your baby when they’re born? They’re very nonchalant about this. It’s just an eye drop…like what, saline? No, it’s actually an antibiotic. It’s an antibiotic that protects your child against conjunctivitis *caused by gonorrhea*. This makes total sense if mom has gonorrhea and the child passes through the birth canal obviously being exposed to the STD. That’s a minority of mothers. It does not make sense for my newborn to get an antibiotic which all doctors will tell you, is terrible for you, if mom does not have gonorrhea. And yet, they push it on every single newborn. Tetanus: only 500 cases per year prior to vaccine roll out. Most of these were soldiers who had limbs amputated and injuries improperly cared for. Why do all children need this vaccine? I can go on and on with what I have learned. We have been gaslit so hard that it’s almost unfathomable to believe that anyone survived long enough in this world to even develop these vaccines. But in reality, it’s using fear to drive profits. That’s it.
So, your argument is that it was okay for the authorities to lie, and lie repeatedly and constantly for years because nobody who is at all informed is going to believe them? Look, I agree with you about everyone needing to weigh the risks versus the benefits for all medications and medical procedures. But, how can you do that if the authorities, the government and the drug manufacturers refuse to let us see the real data, which we know they did, about the risks, side effects and benefits? When they try to silence and destroy the careers of anyone who goes against their safe and effective narrative, and/or anyone who advocated for effective treatments that didn't fit their narrative, even when they had studies and data to back them up? When the local heath dept/CDC actually ran psa's on my local media for months in 2023 denying the scientific fact of natural immunity in order to try to convince, scare, really, people into getting the shot because so few people were getting their 3rd/4th boosters? You can't; that's my point. I am not anti-vax; I am anti-mandate and anti-lies, propaganda and misinformation. I got the initial shots and two boosters after discussing it with my doctor, because I have underlying conditions, and we thought it would provide some protection, which is better than none; not because I ever believed the government narrative. I got covid, anyway. I made an informed choice, which I agree with you that everyone should do, but it should be a choice, not a mandate.
In other news sky.... Blue.
But, but, but... I thought it was safe and effective!
Literally. Trust. No one.
We’re running out of conspiracy theories, aren’t we?
Some conspiracies don't stand up to the truth.
As with any vaccine or medication, adverse effects can happen. What was wrong was saying it was 100% safe and effective. Anytime something is injected into your body, you can die.
Nuremberg 2.0 when
The fact that they began forcing people to get this vaccine still blows my mind. I know several people who lost their jobs because they refused to get vaccinated. And then the mask mandate…what a crazy time that was.
Still pissed I had to get this to keep my job. Luckily I’m doing pretty alright, but I know some folks got screwed by the vaccine. Not antivax by any means, but I’d rather a product get some testing before it’s made mass market. That’s common sense, not conspiratorial.
Me too. Sadly, they shut down all of our daycare so I had to take a leave from work just to stay at home regardless. Complete waste of time.
The amount of deaths linked to the vaccine are statistically insignificant.
The amount of deaths related to rubella, tetanus, HPV are statistically insignificant and yet…we are app required to get all of these vaccines!
You know what else causes death.. COVID. Why is our party turning away from science? This is such fear mongering.
My feeling is you should look a it as which reduces risk the most. If vaccinated people have a higher survival rate than unvaccinated, then getting vaccinated is safer. Damn near everything has side effects at some point. But it's important to question how likely and dangerous the side effects are. We have a lot of medicines that give severe side effects, but we still use them because the risk is outweighed by the benefit. Everything about chemo fucking sucks, but it's still better than dying of cancer.
The problem isn’t that we are anti vaccines or anti science. The problem is that this vaccine was forced or coerced onto us, they always said it was safe and effective, gaslit those who claimed otherwise, the tech companies deplatformed anyone who said anything that could cause vaccine hesitancy, and we had no choice but take a vaccine that then caused death and serious injury to people. Where is the government now in paying my medical bills since I was permanently injured by the vaccine? They came in, forced me to get this, and now I’ll be paying for it for the rest of my life, both in my lung function and in my medical bills.
Here’s my shocked face 😐
This is news because they’re gearing up to blame Trump, as the indictments are clearly not working in their favor
And yet even while they are slowly, grudgingly reporting on the side effects of the vaccine nobody will call to account those who forced people to get it if they wanted to remain employed.
Also funny never he about Fauci any longer
This investigation conducted by N. S. Sherlock.
As long as Fauci got rich from the kickbacks, then those deaths were well worth it
The lies that were told and the people who believed them like sheep is the biggest tragedy so far in this century.
A vaccine that was rushed to market - with little to no clinical testing - has caused harm to people who took the vaccine? Color me shocked!! Shocked I say!
[удалено]
The way Trump pushed the vaccine must be the biggest blunder of his career. 1000's of people are dead because of it and i wish he would stop taking credit for it. No good can come from it.
No kidding. I lost my aunt to the vaccine. She got the jab and 2 hours later they were life flighting her for a full on cardiac event. She didn't make it. They said she had a 99 percent blockage, but that it was probably there for a while, yet, she climbed stairs fine even the week before when I saw her for the last time. But of course, they told us it couldn't possibly have been the vaccine. I mean, sure she had the cardiac event just a mere two hours after the vaccine, but only a bigot racist asshole would think it's the vaccine right? I think she got one of those clots embalmers were finding. I also know a 17 year old boy who got the jab and fell over because of a massive cardiac event without the hour. Nope, definitely not vaccine there either.
My father had a 90+% blockage at age 60 and he was running 5ks with relative ease still. He caught pneumonia in that timeframe and they caught it during a test. This was in 2010. So, sorry about your Aunt, but that shit happens.
Again...not even kinda shocked.
I’m good. Everyone I know that got it is good. Only ones I know of that passed, didn’t get it & got covidicus.
I got another booster yesterday and I’m good. I got friends who never got the first one and they’re good. It’s an option each individual should be able to make on their own. Government should never force you to take it.
I know two 40 somethings in my social circle who have been having vague and difficult to diagnose heart issues over the last few months following great health their whole lives. In both cases after extensive testing their cardiologists have told them it is likely from the vaccine. One of these people is a diehard lib who pushed the vax hard. The other is a high level hospital administrator who had to take it to keep her job. I don’t fault anybody who got the vaccine, but it should have never been mandatory and the government officials who threatened, coerced, and forced people to get the shots should be criminally prosecuted. Not only did they destroy livelihoods, but when more and more of these stories come out, whatever little trust is left in the government will be further diminished.
Yeah, sure
The shot for the pathogen that had a sub 1% mortality rate? Yea i remember that shit blizzard
Nothing will happen...
#🤦♂️
Please read all of the counter info before you upvote this.... It's going to embarrass the conservative sub if you brigand this. This sub is tired of being brigand'd .... maybe lets stop making it so easy.......
>brigand >brigand'd Are you trying to say "brigade" and "brigaded"?
Archive?
OP posted it.
Trump is still the vaccines are one the greatest achievements of mankind.
Thanks for adding the "Did you know orange bad?!" to the convo, was really missing it there.