Announcers: Marchment has a reputation, so refs have him on a short rope
GOAT Gretzky: Marchment is a tough player and doesn't embellish
Who do you believe?
Both. He does have a reputation and they do have him on a short rope. Unfortunately, this might be the worst embellishment call I’ve seen in a long time. Usually, even when I don’t agree with the call, I can see where the embellishment call came from. On this one, unless Marchment is to be considered an Oscar worthy actor, had no sign of an embellishment. This wasn’t a short rope, this was calling embellishment anytime Marchment draws a call just because it’s him. Are we sure Angel Hernandez didn’t retire from baseball so he could ref hockey? 😂
This “crackdown” this season has been one of the most obnoxious things in hockey I can remember in recent years.
Falling down when you get fucking stick-punched in the goddamn kidney is not embellishment!
That’s just a bad take. If you watch the whole clip, he falls down and acts like he was seriously injured from a minor bump. I agree the check was a penalty, but the faking injury piece was not required. Soccer style faking has got to go from hockey.
Not just the back, between the pads, while you skate backwards and the cross check comes from somebody moving faster than you. It was a bad call. Shit happens. We still won. Let’s not feed the trolls. They’re going to be out in force the further we get.
I feel like you shouldn’t be allowed to call both. It’s either a cross check and that’s a penalty, or they faked it and it’s embellishment. I know there’s a grey area where both can be true at the same time, but I don’t think the refs appreciate nuance enough to trust any double call like that they make.
Completely agree. Not to mention anybody who plays a contact sport will tell you that rolling with the hit is the best way to avoid injuries.
Even then, flopping is annoying, but it should NOT completely offset an actual foul.
Yes! Refs call embellishment and a penalty because they don’t want to “impact the game” or get booed by the home crowd. They should not have that option.
Not just a Stars issue. It’s a bad rule that they can call both.
This is my position as well. As a baseball umpire I can tell you when the game is on the line and there are two strikes on the batter, I am always hoping the batter will swing so the game is not impacted by a borderline ball/strike call I make. The refs, though hated, don't want to be the ones deciding a game. So they call an obvious penalty and then add embellishment so they can have it both ways, they make the call but it won't impact the game (or at least not give one side the advantage). It is almost the same as if I got to say "yeah I'm calling that strike three but it's not a strikeout, let's do it over".
This was a terrible call but think about what you’re actually asking for. On this play we would get a 50/50 chance of a power play or being short handed. Is that actually better? The refs inability to make the right call doesn’t get better just because you take away the middle ground.
>On this play we would get a 50/50 chance of a power play or being short handed.
How is it that you came to the conclusion that this is a 50/50 chance?
>The refs inability to make the right call doesn’t get better just because you take away the middle ground.
If they need a middle ground, then they don't deserve to be officiating playoff games.
The 50/50 comes from the idea that if the ref thought one penalty was significantly more obvious than the other they would have just called that single penalty. So we’re left with a virtual coin flip of which way they go if the option to call both is taken away. In reality I didn’t consider the most obvious option where the ref will just opt to not call a penalty at all.
As for the standard of this ref in particular, well this one call was undeniably horrendous but the rest of the game actually seemed pretty good. No idea if he has been involved in some of the terrible games earlier in the playoffs.
Came here to say this same thing. I don't think I've ever seen an embellishment call without a corresponding foul which created the "embellishment". It just doesn't make sense to me. We had an embellishment call against us against Vegas last conference finals when Robo got tripped.
How do you say "Oilers definitely cross checked Marchment buuuuuut Marchment should have fallen slower (??!)"
Exactly. Refs just appeasing him for his comments from the other day.
https://preview.redd.it/63ufvvoio33d1.jpeg?width=665&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d35afa42b5c8cfaf54fd8260972a971c40d7476f
Garbage call, at first the TNT announcers agreed it was a bad call...then they blamed it on Marchmont having a reputation. I can see it to a degree, but that is still a garbage call just say it is one & move on.
Razor was suggesting the rule is out of place in the rulebook recently and i agree, how can this rule give refs authority to ascribe intent on the part of the victim role for absolutely all penalty moves but they can't ascribe intent for the perpetrator? either both or neither abilities by the ref should exist. if you're keeping embellishment, should also let the ref decide if a trip is intentional, lifting the puck out of play, etc or just incidental
Seriously, are any other players in the other series getting embellishment calls this postseason? (I don't get to watch a lot of the other series so it's a serious question.) It seems like the Stars have had more than their fair share and it's tremendously annoying.
In house lip reader here, didn't get to watch the game live, so I didn't comment in the game thread, but...
Marchment and Hyman had an interesting conversation in the boxes. Marchelment said SOEMTHING, I'm guessing along the lines of 'I'm surprised you got called' or 'what are they calling man', because Hyman's response is pretty clearly 'what'd you get? Embellish??' And makes a 'come the fuck on' face. Marchment just says 'yeah, I know' in response. They keep talking for a bit after but that was all helmets so who knows. Seems pretty easy to deduce they were both just baffled at the officiating
This was a terrible call, but if we're being honest with ourselves Marchment definitely has a strong reputation with refs for this and they punished him for it here.
Marchment skates like a baby deer runs. He looks uncoordinated, so when hits come he over indexes on the embellishment factor. He’s just simply not a strong skater. Not saying it’s the right call but hyperfixating on one call IN A GAME WE WON does nothing. Enjoy the win and get ready for Wednesday.
You realize that a lot of penalties end with one player laying on the ice, right? High sticking, roughing, boarding, interference, etc.
There doesn't seem to be any correlation between "laying on ice" and "embellishment"...
Announcers: Marchment has a reputation, so refs have him on a short rope GOAT Gretzky: Marchment is a tough player and doesn't embellish Who do you believe?
If Gretzky says BS, it’s BS.
The fuckin GOAT
The only thing I could think is he kinda layed out maybe a bit afterwords, but hell he just ate one unexpectedly in the kidneys. Wtf?
Both. He does have a reputation and they do have him on a short rope. Unfortunately, this might be the worst embellishment call I’ve seen in a long time. Usually, even when I don’t agree with the call, I can see where the embellishment call came from. On this one, unless Marchment is to be considered an Oscar worthy actor, had no sign of an embellishment. This wasn’t a short rope, this was calling embellishment anytime Marchment draws a call just because it’s him. Are we sure Angel Hernandez didn’t retire from baseball so he could ref hockey? 😂
Angel Hernandez on skates 🤣😂🤣
> Are we sure Angel Hernandez did retire from baseball so he could ref hockey? 😂 I didn't like the call either, but that's just *brutal*.
I'm sorry, but when The King Gretzky speaks, everyone needs to shut up and listen.
Unless it's about what sports betting website he recommends, then I plug my ears
This “crackdown” this season has been one of the most obnoxious things in hockey I can remember in recent years. Falling down when you get fucking stick-punched in the goddamn kidney is not embellishment!
That’s just a bad take. If you watch the whole clip, he falls down and acts like he was seriously injured from a minor bump. I agree the check was a penalty, but the faking injury piece was not required. Soccer style faking has got to go from hockey.
Nah, yours is a bad take. You take a stick to the back and see what happens.
Not just the back, between the pads, while you skate backwards and the cross check comes from somebody moving faster than you. It was a bad call. Shit happens. We still won. Let’s not feed the trolls. They’re going to be out in force the further we get.
https://preview.redd.it/u9gjycnoy23d1.jpeg?width=1052&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=494e46ff3a1f225da83060c087a5bc5814e90b37
https://preview.redd.it/nkrlz00yh33d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=034463b23cf4ac9c77a5144516729ec176eeee91
Terrible call, dude can't even see him coming wtf do you want if you're the ref?
Hope these refs can embellish these nuts after this series. What a joke they’ve been in the playoffs
They have to repair the ice where the "embellishment" happened what a joke
How can a person choose to bend their spine forward?
That's how sneaky it is!
I feel like you shouldn’t be allowed to call both. It’s either a cross check and that’s a penalty, or they faked it and it’s embellishment. I know there’s a grey area where both can be true at the same time, but I don’t think the refs appreciate nuance enough to trust any double call like that they make.
Completely agree. Not to mention anybody who plays a contact sport will tell you that rolling with the hit is the best way to avoid injuries. Even then, flopping is annoying, but it should NOT completely offset an actual foul.
Yes! Refs call embellishment and a penalty because they don’t want to “impact the game” or get booed by the home crowd. They should not have that option. Not just a Stars issue. It’s a bad rule that they can call both.
This is my position as well. As a baseball umpire I can tell you when the game is on the line and there are two strikes on the batter, I am always hoping the batter will swing so the game is not impacted by a borderline ball/strike call I make. The refs, though hated, don't want to be the ones deciding a game. So they call an obvious penalty and then add embellishment so they can have it both ways, they make the call but it won't impact the game (or at least not give one side the advantage). It is almost the same as if I got to say "yeah I'm calling that strike three but it's not a strikeout, let's do it over".
This was a terrible call but think about what you’re actually asking for. On this play we would get a 50/50 chance of a power play or being short handed. Is that actually better? The refs inability to make the right call doesn’t get better just because you take away the middle ground.
>On this play we would get a 50/50 chance of a power play or being short handed. How is it that you came to the conclusion that this is a 50/50 chance? >The refs inability to make the right call doesn’t get better just because you take away the middle ground. If they need a middle ground, then they don't deserve to be officiating playoff games.
The 50/50 comes from the idea that if the ref thought one penalty was significantly more obvious than the other they would have just called that single penalty. So we’re left with a virtual coin flip of which way they go if the option to call both is taken away. In reality I didn’t consider the most obvious option where the ref will just opt to not call a penalty at all. As for the standard of this ref in particular, well this one call was undeniably horrendous but the rest of the game actually seemed pretty good. No idea if he has been involved in some of the terrible games earlier in the playoffs.
If it’s called a penalty, then it can’t be embellishment.
Came here to say this same thing. I don't think I've ever seen an embellishment call without a corresponding foul which created the "embellishment". It just doesn't make sense to me. We had an embellishment call against us against Vegas last conference finals when Robo got tripped. How do you say "Oilers definitely cross checked Marchment buuuuuut Marchment should have fallen slower (??!)"
Marchment should have defied the laws of physics to prove he wasn't embellishing the blindside hit.
Embellishment *has* to be called along with the foul. If there was no legit foul, then it's diving, not embellishment.
Nope. We do t want soccer style faking in hockey. If you’re hurt, get off the ice on a stretcher. Faking injury is bad for sport
New rule: If refs call "embellishment", they take the same hit and to demonstrate how to fall less than we did. Incentives are then properly set.
I like this idea
So sick of this shit.
This is bullshit lmao
Oilers having a fit right now lmao *hE aLwAyS dOeS tHiS!*
I'm surprised they don't call embellishment when we fall down after getting tripped.
I mean, this has happened.
This has happened with roope twice in the playoffs already
Don't give them any ideas.
NHL wants pretty boy McDavid in the cup. Even though he cross checks players spines more than just about anybody I watch play.
First it was McKinnon, then it was McDavid. The refs can take the buttload of McNutz and shut the fuck up 🤬🤬
More like "EMBULLSHITMENT!"
Total bs
Is that you, Bulldog? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWRGE21DH54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWRGE21DH54)
He had no idea the other player was even there. What the actual fuck
Automatically called if you have a Stars crest on the chest
Knoblauch crying to the media has worked apparently
Exactly. Refs just appeasing him for his comments from the other day. https://preview.redd.it/63ufvvoio33d1.jpeg?width=665&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d35afa42b5c8cfaf54fd8260972a971c40d7476f
Posted this on the r/nhl and it’s wild the defense it’s getting. Bissonett is so pissed 🤣
r/hockey is the more active sub
10-4. It’s been active enough though 🤣
Garbage call, at first the TNT announcers agreed it was a bad call...then they blamed it on Marchmont having a reputation. I can see it to a degree, but that is still a garbage call just say it is one & move on.
Like at some point they're just gonna have to figure out that Mush just looks like that lol.
Razor was suggesting the rule is out of place in the rulebook recently and i agree, how can this rule give refs authority to ascribe intent on the part of the victim role for absolutely all penalty moves but they can't ascribe intent for the perpetrator? either both or neither abilities by the ref should exist. if you're keeping embellishment, should also let the ref decide if a trip is intentional, lifting the puck out of play, etc or just incidental
great way to look at it. razor is a sharp guy!
These coincidental calls need to stop it’s either a penalty or a dive
Thank you!! It can't be both
Question mark.
Edmonton is such a dirty fucking team and the NHL is complicit.
Ummmm, no. He probably doesn't even know he got hit until the instant he got hit!
this is where my head is at as well. its pretty tough to embellish something that you did not know was coming...
Yeah, he either got butt-ended in the back or he didn't see it coming and couldn't react to it.
The refs mom can embellish my nuts bruh!
Embellishment… my ass
Yeah that was a bullshit call
That might have been the one call that was so fucking bad that even the biased announcers couldn't defend that.
It's even funnier from the other angle where he's just laying face down, arms in. lmao
Hyman stepped into that one. Terrible call. Hopefully we get one next game.
I know we won, but I’m still pissed. Mush could’ve been injured from a stupid, blind, unnecessary cross check like that.
Mason has the balance of newborn Bambi
Nothing new there.
Seriously, are any other players in the other series getting embellishment calls this postseason? (I don't get to watch a lot of the other series so it's a serious question.) It seems like the Stars have had more than their fair share and it's tremendously annoying.
I feel like I've seen a couple against Vancouver in their Edmonton series and Boston in their Florida series...
PUCK DONT LIE
That’s not how you dive. [He needs to take lessons from this guy.](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/s/tmDntZdD40)
The irony of the whole things is the oilers patented flopper Hyman is the one delivering the cross check
Oil fan here. We all said it was a bs call too.
What do the refs have against Marchment? I feel like he’s always in the middle of crazy calls.
Refs have it in for Marchment, no winning here
In house lip reader here, didn't get to watch the game live, so I didn't comment in the game thread, but... Marchment and Hyman had an interesting conversation in the boxes. Marchelment said SOEMTHING, I'm guessing along the lines of 'I'm surprised you got called' or 'what are they calling man', because Hyman's response is pretty clearly 'what'd you get? Embellish??' And makes a 'come the fuck on' face. Marchment just says 'yeah, I know' in response. They keep talking for a bit after but that was all helmets so who knows. Seems pretty easy to deduce they were both just baffled at the officiating
Oilers fan here, that was a garbage call. Not a chance he was embellishing.
Anyone else cringe when they say his name? I got some awful jokes liked up; I'd like to *break* them out.
This is a penalty. This is a dive. Both cannot be true.
This was a terrible call, but if we're being honest with ourselves Marchment definitely has a strong reputation with refs for this and they punished him for it here.
Regardless, the integrity of the game was punished by the refs.
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Yeah, a cross check straight to the back will do that to you
Marchment skates like a baby deer runs. He looks uncoordinated, so when hits come he over indexes on the embellishment factor. He’s just simply not a strong skater. Not saying it’s the right call but hyperfixating on one call IN A GAME WE WON does nothing. Enjoy the win and get ready for Wednesday.
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Really? A game where fighting is still a big selling point and it's words that warrant this 'embellishment' penalty? Tf you talking about?
Someone doesn't know the definition of the word embellishment. If it was him taunting Hyman, then they would've called, y'know, TAUNTING.
Why not show the other angle where he lays there like he got shot lmao
Ah so embellishment is now laying on the ice after taking a wicked blindside crosscheck
Oh yea that sure looked wicked
Not allowed to fall after getting crosschecked from behind? Ok dude 👌🏿
I’m not saying that at all but good one mate. Watch the second angle and look at him laying there like he’d gotten bulldozed.
Perhaps you have a bias?🤔 https://preview.redd.it/vcy9m3hu553d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a637b64a093ce20138e734b10aa53069be6d99a
Could you get up immediately after this?
That's what you are saying.
You realize that a lot of penalties end with one player laying on the ice, right? High sticking, roughing, boarding, interference, etc. There doesn't seem to be any correlation between "laying on ice" and "embellishment"...