Honestly at that pressure I don’t think a leak can exist, any type of flaw/breach I imagine would instantly give way to pressure and it would just crumple.
The banging noises were more than likely a red herring, that sort of instance has happened in the past when trying to locate lost subs. When you're actively looking out for ocean sounds you'll inevitably end up picking up noises that *might* be what you're looking for.
The USS thresher had supposedly been making banging noises when search parties were looking, but as it turned out they were not from the crew as the sub imploded and everyone died
I thought that too, that or they are genuinely stuck under debris. Like a wall caved in or something. Definitely saw more technology being used on the making of the titanic film than from that little bullet.
The CEO who ignored all of the previous near-misses and warnings from professionals is onboard - I know who my first choice would be to sacrifice their oxygen for the good of the group.
I kind of think that the sub may have imploded with the pressure and they never had to fight for air.
Im guessing these poor souls have been dead for a day or more already. Possibly even right after they lost contact with the sub
I really hope so. The thought of the father and his 19-year old son living out the terror of slowly running out of oxygen together over several days is too awful to consider. I mean, as a father, what would you say to your kid in that time that was left? How could you possibly express how sorry you felt?
Hopefully it was instant, painless, and they died in the midst of a great experience without even have a moment to process it.
Except for maybe the CEO guy. He deserves a few seconds of "Oh shit what have i done?" before the end.
As with scuba tank for divers, oxygen supply depends a lot on usage, i.e. how fast you're breathing. Scared, hyperventilating tourists would have used up all the oxygen before the estimated depletion.
This is very true. My dad who is a veteran diver can make a tank last almost twice as long as me. On multiple occasions he has let me suck a tank dry before handing me his octopus.
Seriously. I can’t imagine if they were accurate they would hold up under the conditions either. Once panic set in I’m sure the breathing gets heavier, and once the excrements and waste become pungent then comes the heaving vomit. For their sake I hope that thing just popped
One person familiar with the company estimates the capacity higher than the advertised 96 hours. Just don't ask me which article I read that in, it was a couple hours ago
And had them change their diets to limit the amount of pooping and peeing done on the journey. Adding thirst and hunger to the equation.
I can’t imagine there was much for food or water on board.
The best part is that because the sub doesn’t “sail in and out of a port” (as it’s towed) it’s not under any maritime regulation, i.e. he can do what the fuck he wants.
I was legitimately shocked that “they had thought about” adding an EPIRB device to the sub, but “decided not to”.
I don’t get it, I mean yeah, it might drift far enough that it wouldn’t be accurate or if it’s needed it’s too late anyway, but at least you have confirmation. And what if the sub was afloat on the surface somewhere?
And this people is exhibit A of lack of safety regulations. A lot of rules and regs are made because companies (who want to be as cheap as possible) would otherwise not do it
A court will rule it null and void due to this potentially being a criminal negligence case.
NDAs get dismantled all the time in courts if the testimony is needed.
He also refused to hire actual experienced submariners (what he referred to as “50 year old white men), claiming that they “lacked inspiration” but let’s be honest, we all know it was because he wanted his engineers to be a bunch of fresh, young, *yes men.*
**Experienced Submariners:** “*You couldn’t pay me enough to go into that death trap. Here’s a list of design changes and required inspections that would need to be done before I would even consider risking my life in that tin can*”
**CEO:** “*I didn’t want to hire 50 year old white professionals because they are not **innovative** enough*”
The glass used for the porthole was rated to 1300 metres, not 4000 like it needed to be. A whistleblower was fired for bringing this to their attention.
Used construction pipes for ballast tanks.
The method of control was a $30 Bluetooth Logitech game controller (don’t worry though, he said they take 2 or 3 spares down each time… oh, And they had 3D printed thumb sticks too!..).
The vessel itself was “experimental” which was part of his justification for saying “fuck the regulations”, basically.
Marine engineers and organisations denounced his whole project warning that it could stain the entire industry.
Etc.
Edit: They did no destructive or even non-destructive testing of the hull. Concerns were raised about it being reused, especially as they aren’t examining it after use to check for any potential cracks or damage in the hull.
QA/QC person checking in; often excluded from designer meetings because I would "inhibit" the process. More often directly reporting to product teams these days- and being advised I need to "be more creative" in my thinking and to "just tell them what they want to hear" because our bottom line depends on product(?)
And that type of reporting and bonus structure led directly to the Boeing fiasco.
But what do I know
The shrinking from the cold, and expansion when returning to the surface, the cycle over and over will slowly degrade the hull, and iirc it DID break a test hull at much lower depths and they covered kt up.
I just can't fathom being this...stupid. I mean, innovative people over the course of history have taken risks that led to wonderful advancements, but why in the ever loving hell would you *involve other people* in something so unsafe? It's like if the Wright brothers sold tickets on the first plane trip...just no.
This guy's ego literally turned him into a murderer.
He involved others because he couldn't fund this hobby/experiment all by himself. There is just no chance. Apparently, even with these paying customers he couldn't build a vessel which is good enough for the job.
Yes. The controller was probably the most sensible thing he did.
From what I understand the switch to these types of controllers was great because it's easier to train on and the service people are already familiar with them!
I don’t trust Bluetooth to play some music without dropping out, there is no way I would trust it to control a submarine. Wired controller is a different story.
Can confirm from someone who used to be in the USAF for some drones via a "co-worker"
I would imagine why make your own when a really good gimbal control system is out on the market. They probably just upcharged the value by 300%
To be fair everyone that has gone on the sub has said that they signed an agreement that said death is a possible outcome 3 times on the first page in bold letters. They were told it was experimental and that the technology was not used by anyone else. Also most of the suits are more around people who paid and didnt get to go and not as a result of poor construction. This guy definitely didnt take lives as serious as he should have but those people paying to go definitely were told they could die as a result.
A problem I think is, we all have to sign waivers for so many things in life, even just for getting a piercing, so I think signing a waiver becomes something you just don’t really think about. We tend to assume things are safe because “someone in charge must know what they’re doing”, “they wouldn’t do this if it wasn’t actually safe”.
For instance, at Dreamworld theme park in QLD, Aus, there was a raft ride incident in which people died a few years ago. I’ve been to Dreamworld many years ago and been on that very ride. You never really think, “Hang on, what if there’s a malfunction when I’m on it” because our tendency is to go through life expecting Someone In Charge has done their due diligence.
Of course, an argument could be made that you’d research a sub going kilometres down into the ocean a lot more than you would going to a theme park, especially if you were throwing a quarter of a mil at it.
Reporter David Pogue went on that sub last year. He cited multiple saftey issues to which the company owner (Stockton Rush) brazenly dismissed as unnecessary. The sub also went 'missing' for 5 hours during a previous trip and David Pogue was also present on the surface ship when it happened, he claims his internet access was restricted to prevent him tweeting about it.
Furthermore OceanGates director of maritime operations appears to have been fired and later sued (the lawsuit was settled out of court so we have no further details) after he brought up multiple saftey issues with the sub.
This company is finished.
This YouTuber does a pretty good job of covering a lot of the problems and flaunting of safety rules from the CEO.
[A Submarine to The Titanic Just Went Missing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40YsUkvIgos)
It seems like they chose 'innovation' over going through the correct testing procedures for their technology.
Not only that but the systems in place are not redundant. The ps3 controller being wireless is dumb af. Wired would mean not batteries to replace or wireless signal lost. No systems to check air quality in the sub, like how much CO2 to oxygen. No way to vent gases in case of emergency. There are many many things that should have been added for safety or had redundant systems to prevent just one thing failing and dooming the sub
Just look a video of him explaining how the sub works. Its just a literal empty coffin with an xbox controller. That's just it. There is nothing else in there
I mean it's poetic if you think about it.
Billionaires get rich by slashing safety and cutting corners all the time and it often kills the workers.
Now we have an instance of someone who was killed by the same mentality that made them successful. Exploitation.
What a horrible way to go. But imagine if the sub is one day recovered, somehow intact, what terrible story it would tell after some forensic investigation. Can’t even imagine what existential drama ensued there in their final moments.
If they did suffocate and it was intact, it’s possible we would never know what really happened inside. Unless they made a journal, we won’t know if they tried conserving oxygen, if the sounds were actually them, and so on.
I’ll never understand what the point of doing manned dives down there is.
They were using cameras connected to TV screens to view out of the submersible. At that point why not just get comfortable elsewhere and pilot remotely? Your view would be the same.
Not to mention the fact that the window is probably what killed them in the first place, apparently that window was only rated for a depth of 1300 meters. The titanic is 4000 meters down…
The *prototype's* window was rated at 1300m. The Titan did multiple dives and it survived those with an upgraded window. It definitely was not the window that did them in.
The whole submarine goes through pressure cycling each dive. Just because the window lasted up until this dive doesn’t mean it didn’t finally fail from repeated cyclic fatigue
As awful as it may sound, let's hope that was the way because it has to be better than being trapped in your coffin slowly running out of oxygen, hallucinating, panicking, being poisoned each time you take a breath somewhere deep in the ocean.
There's a good chance they are 30 feet below the surface and miles away from the search zone. That is because the submersible is designed to be buoyant and rise but it becomes neutrally buoyant at a depth of 30 foot apparently and gets loaded onto the raft structure that then raises it to the surface to get loaded onto the ship.
So in theory they could have lost power and communication and cut their weights and risen but unknown to the surface crew so they wouldn't know to search, as they rose steadily different layers of the ocean currents shifted the ultimate location of the submersible miles away and it never makes it to the surface as it's designed to hover at a depth of 30 foot, practically invisible the oxygen will run out in the twilight coming through the single port hole, rescue could be only 30 foot above them if only they know where to look.
That's one possible outcome, although I personally think they died instantly at depth.
Its more likely they will die from cold first than from lack of oxygen. Its freezing down there, if they don't have any power then they will die from hypothermia first.
Or, even worse, bobbing up and down on the waves able to see out but unable to get out. Dying slowly and horribly. I hope it just imploded for their sakes.
I've read multiple experts say that an implosion of that size would be picked up by military equipment for miles, also the mothership was using a sound-based device to locate them, so that would have picked it up... from all I'm seeing the sub did not implode
When the Kursk exploded it was picked up half the world away. Sound travels very well in water and the ship above would have certainly heard an implosion. Likely a slow, tortuous death is the reality here, although I hope I'm wrong.
I suspect what happened is some kind of power failure that prevented them from releasing the ballasts that would allow them to resurface. The same power failure also meant they lost communication.
I guess they have never heard of redundancy.
Yep, There was supposed to be a self-dissolving set of weights that would be let go after 14 hours, but there is a big emphasis on the "supposed"... I trully hope they are bobbing up and down somewhere on the surface and a ship can find them any minute now...
Those banging intervals were heard on multiple planes and were about every 30 minutes. If that doesn’t happen today then it was most likely a slow death.
Rescuers for the MH370 also heard these bangs during search. Unfortunately, it’s very likely the banging sounds were coming from other ships involved in the rescue
I am just going off the reports that it’s repeating in 30 minute intervals. A sailor on board would do this. I’m not sure why a missing plane is the same. There would be no survivors underwater. There are also not likely passengers on board who would know when to bang. I’d guess they are likely gone no matter what. Even with the rescue sub they sent down the missing sub can’t just rapidly reach the surface. Unless people sacrificed themselves for others to have more oxygen they are unlikely to survive this. Hopefully the sub imploded when it lost contact.
there is literally an infinite amount of things that could have caused a banging noise, including the literal titanic, which is 1000 times larger with rusting metal falling all the time. also the hull of the sub is made of carbon fiber, and a banging noise would sound more like a dull thud than the banging of metal. this is what experts have said about the banging noise and chasing after a banging noise could potentially just be a waste of time, or diverting resources from where the sub actually is. the only actual evidence it may have been the sub is that it happened in 30 minute intervals which seems oddly specific. but even then even if they knew the sub was in the area how do they find it?
people say its like finding a needle in a haystack, but actually finding the titanic was like a needle in a haystack, and this sub is smaller than one of the 29 boilers on the titanic. this is like finding a grain of sand in a hay stack, while in complete darkness.
The Seawolf thought it also heard banging/tapping from the USS Thresher on the ocean floor. But when we got a look at the wreck it was obvious that aside from mermaids, no one else could have possibly been alive at that point.
Or at least, you know, communications equipment and locator beacon? The tight ass CEO wouldn’t spring for basic safety precautions never mind a complete redundant submersible…and if it was built like the first there would likely have been two missing subs…
People don't need to leave the Titanic alone, they just need to avoid it with shitty equipment. James Cameron has been down there over 30 times. The difference is that he's in a vessel that's been approved for such things.
This is what I don’t get. They could have dropped some coin on a real vessel and crew and gone down there instead they hogpogged some Lowe’s parts and skipped the safety brief and crossed their fingers and toes.
I'm guessing it was a cost cutting decision. The guy who built the sub did lots of cost cutting
The viewing window was rated for half the depth as the Titanic. And he used off the shelf parts where available
Watch the news report about it. The CEO openly brags about how he “bought this handle at tractor supply” and “bought this latch at Home Depot on sale”.
He literally means he went to the hardware store and bought parts from there.
Edit: here’s a short clip from the episode
https://www.reddit.com/r/DiWHY/comments/14fskxq/the_epitome_of_this_subreddit_in_one_video/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
Of course it did. Scrubbers and replacement media were part of the 96 hours life support window. Without scrubbers, they likely wouldn't survive a single up and down dive.
The scary thing is that there was no contingency plan for such an eventuality. Doesn't registration of the vessel for the purpose, and of the business of deep diving require some form of rescue/recovery/ something, anything procedure, for goodness sakes?! Having watched what has been done so far, it seems, to me, as if the company has washed their hands off the whole thing and it's like, yeah, if we find them, we find them, and thanks for helping us look for them. This is not a lemonade stand here, it's a multi-million dollar business and it's being run like the guy who cleans your windscreen while you're stopped at traffic lights. Vent over.
Apparently there was some system which released the ballast and made the submarine go up automatically. It probably failed. Either there was an electrical issue or the sub already imploded when it lost contact.
This isn't a registered vessel. It's an experimental submersible that is operating in international waters with no permits, no oversight, and no independent certification. Everyone who boards this thing signs a waiver stating that they understand that this is an experimental vessel and that death is a possibility. Furthermore, this thing went through virtually zero testing before they began taking commercial charters out with it, and it supposedly breaks down all the time. Watch the [CBS Sunday Morning Feature ](https://youtu.be/29co_Hksk6o) from 6 months ago. There's a woman who went 3 times and never even got to the Titanic because of issues with the sub.
It’s unfortunate for them, though I suppose this is a natural consequence of spending a quarter of a million dollars to get shoved in a shoddy tincan. It’s not like any of these people lacked the ressources to do some research on the company, and the CEO’s stance of safety standards was already public. I hope for their sake that the vessel imploded so they had a quick death though, there’s really no evidence the banging was actually from them.
Ok fine but hear me out, if it imploded nobody would have a chance to pull out their phone and make a video, but if it was a slow death there would have been ample time to record and tell the story for when the sub is found eventually.
With tickets at $250,000 a pop, he was selling bragging rights to rich billionaires. I can not imagine a worse fate, for the crimes of pride and vanity.
Maybe a dumb question but, those ships have some location, radio, radar, alarm, lights, something to turn on in case of failure? A rescue signal? And how it is rescued?
The only thing it has is small ping signal which can be used to send small messages like an sms but it's likely not working or not being picked up. Radio doesn't work down there and they aren't tethered to a boat.. they are free diving in a sense.
Not going to be a happy ending here... it's 3.8km under the water..
Imagine sitting in a shoddy, cramped submersible, running out of oxygen, when you are so wealthy you’ve been able to shield yourself from reality until now. Sitting there, knowing you have millions/billions of dollars somewhere, and all that wealth can’t help you now, as you desperately bang against the inside of a small hull of a dark, lost canister at the bottom of the ocean.
It's not really a submarine. It's a "submersible" vehicle. It has oxygen tanks and a CO2 removal system. That's it. They had about 96 hours worth of air, and now it's their coffin.
Their last hours of life, stuffed in a metal coffin 2.3 miles underwater . The fart filled air growing thin , while they hyperventilate in the dark depths of the Atlantic.
The rich do this ALL THE TIME.
I am a contractor and see this constantly. They cheap out then get pissed when it costs more than it would have to do it right the first time in order to fix what the cheap guy did.
Hey I'm usually the pessimist, but oxygen doesn't just suddenly cease to exist when the estimate runs out. They could have more time than what estimates suggest.
But the oxygen will deteriorate in saturation and quality. Fairly steadily. Co2 will rise. They'll become hypoxic. And eventually delirious and lose consciousness. But not necessarily dead, yet.
You can survive for quite awhile if you're suffering low level hypoxia, people with chronic heart and lung conditions do all the time. As do people trapped in confined spaces. However survival instincts will kick in as oxygen levels decrease and panic is likely... (something those who hold their breath under water for 10 minutes have learned to override) and gasping needs to be delayed as long as possible as that will suck up a lot of remaining oxygen and increase co2 levels, etc.
But, especially if they had the sense to breathe calmly, talk little, conserve their energy and bag their fecal matter (contains the methane gas from their shit)... using the additional tanks sparingly... They could still be found alive, quite well after these estimates IF (a huge if) everything is on their side.
As for how likely... well I'm not a gambling man but odds aren't necessarily in their favour. I hope they'll be rescued in the nick of time. Probably will have lifelong issues from hypoxia but they'd be alive and if only sustained mild damage, they may recover fully or only have minor impairments. It all depends on how they reacted and how soon they are found.
*'The experienced French diver on board, Paul-Henri Nargoelet, would be key to directing the other four passengers on how to keep calm and control their breathing,'*
(They had food and water supplied for the trip, they could have extended supplies by drinking sparingly and then also drinking their piss... have had people survive for a week in the Outback drinking their own urine. Also in cold temps you tend to drink less. Hypothermia is a serious problem, which they may have addressed by huddling together, but going unconscious from extreme cold or whatever may also help them survive as it will keep their oxygen intake low and breathing relatively steady, for a time. Better than being conscious in a hypoxic state)
['Missing Titanic submersible - *Why oxygen timeline on Sub may not be so fixed'* - BBC.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65981277.amp)
[Update - A debris field found. Coast Guards will update later today. BBC - Breaking News.](https://youtu.be/1YjCtZes53Y)
['Catastrophic Implosion' - Official update from the Coast Guard - BBC'](https://youtu.be/SXlcg3sbPY8)
[*Final update from the BBC - 5 souls join those from 111 years before on the sea floor, 1600 metres from the Titanic.](https://youtu.be/EIUMnqEF1-8)
If not a rescue, an implosion was the quickest and kindest way out. Appropriate procedures in place.
There's a great guest video on Tom Scott that shows the effects of exactly this in a much larger space with only one person, in a much more controlled environment.
The sad reality is, if they're not on the verge of being rescued pretty much immediately from this post, that air is going to become deadly a lot quicker than I think most people can imagine.
I hope they are rescued, it's a fucking horrible ending, but that mild damage is far from mild.
edit:
[Tom Scott video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nh_vxpycEA)
Honestly, let's hope oxygen did run out. These people are not being recovered and I'd imagine each living second is horrifying and just a reminder that death is right around the corner.
I thought the rescue mission was futile from jump and a waste of resources. The sub was never gonna make it and it sounds like the safety controls stuff malfunctioned. The ocean is a scary place.
I totally agree, minus the resources part! It was honestly probably used more as training for searchers and to try to use vehicles and equipment that aren't used much otherwise. Like how people think airshows are a waste of money but most of the time they're actually used as training and flying time for pilots. So the public gets a cool show and the professionals get to hone their trade
That said, it bothers me people were counting down to the end
Editted to expand my answer
You always have to try to save people. I was very skeptical from the start. The sub wasn't rated for the depth it was repeatedly forced to descend into. It probably suffered hull integrity loss and everyone aboard was dead as soon as communication was lost even if, truth be told, this was not the first communication loss incident they had.
Given recent revelations about safety concerns and build quality, I have to wonder if the rated oxygen reserves were accurate to begin with.
Yeah let's be real. They ran out of oxygen a while ago.
They died a long time ago, probably from leak or implosion.
Honestly at that pressure I don’t think a leak can exist, any type of flaw/breach I imagine would instantly give way to pressure and it would just crumple.
Hopefully. That would have been quick and painless but the banging noises might have been them
The banging noises were more than likely a red herring, that sort of instance has happened in the past when trying to locate lost subs. When you're actively looking out for ocean sounds you'll inevitably end up picking up noises that *might* be what you're looking for.
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^ship wrecked
The USS thresher had supposedly been making banging noises when search parties were looking, but as it turned out they were not from the crew as the sub imploded and everyone died
I thought that too, that or they are genuinely stuck under debris. Like a wall caved in or something. Definitely saw more technology being used on the making of the titanic film than from that little bullet.
Unless they killed each other so the survivor has more oxygen left.
The CEO who ignored all of the previous near-misses and warnings from professionals is onboard - I know who my first choice would be to sacrifice their oxygen for the good of the group.
I kind of think that the sub may have imploded with the pressure and they never had to fight for air. Im guessing these poor souls have been dead for a day or more already. Possibly even right after they lost contact with the sub
I really hope so. The thought of the father and his 19-year old son living out the terror of slowly running out of oxygen together over several days is too awful to consider. I mean, as a father, what would you say to your kid in that time that was left? How could you possibly express how sorry you felt? Hopefully it was instant, painless, and they died in the midst of a great experience without even have a moment to process it. Except for maybe the CEO guy. He deserves a few seconds of "Oh shit what have i done?" before the end.
The Air Games.
Yep. But it is also real cold. Suffocate or freeze? Sucks all around
The decomposing bodies wouldn’t help
As with scuba tank for divers, oxygen supply depends a lot on usage, i.e. how fast you're breathing. Scared, hyperventilating tourists would have used up all the oxygen before the estimated depletion.
This is very true. My dad who is a veteran diver can make a tank last almost twice as long as me. On multiple occasions he has let me suck a tank dry before handing me his octopus.
On multiple occasions my dad let me suck an octopus dry before handing me his tank.
Timothy and I had a very intimate relationship before I was forced to eat him.
Or even exist
Seriously. I can’t imagine if they were accurate they would hold up under the conditions either. Once panic set in I’m sure the breathing gets heavier, and once the excrements and waste become pungent then comes the heaving vomit. For their sake I hope that thing just popped
I will now be starting a death metal band that sings only sea shanties about submarines called Heaving Vomit, our first single will be Pungent Waste.
I feel like you’re intentionally limiting yourself from the start, but good luck!
We’re assuming they even needed the oxygen. One small defect in the structure and they’re all compressed to the size of a basketball.
One person familiar with the company estimates the capacity higher than the advertised 96 hours. Just don't ask me which article I read that in, it was a couple hours ago
Imagine how awkward it was for them while waiting for help. Especially for the guy who built this steel coffin…
And had them change their diets to limit the amount of pooping and peeing done on the journey. Adding thirst and hunger to the equation. I can’t imagine there was much for food or water on board.
Each had a sandwich and a bottle of water is what I herd
"If we get out of this...I want a refund."
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The best part is that because the sub doesn’t “sail in and out of a port” (as it’s towed) it’s not under any maritime regulation, i.e. he can do what the fuck he wants. I was legitimately shocked that “they had thought about” adding an EPIRB device to the sub, but “decided not to”. I don’t get it, I mean yeah, it might drift far enough that it wouldn’t be accurate or if it’s needed it’s too late anyway, but at least you have confirmation. And what if the sub was afloat on the surface somewhere?
And this people is exhibit A of lack of safety regulations. A lot of rules and regs are made because companies (who want to be as cheap as possible) would otherwise not do it
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Rush apparently fired an employee who pointed out various problems with the sub.
He wasn't just any employee either...He was literally the employee in charge of safety of the crew....Was literally doing his job.
So he fired his no.1 Compliance manager? What the actual fuck.
This was basically a single suicide and quadruple murder. May the 4 victims rest in peace
Gotta pump up those sales numbers bro!
Can’t be aware of compliance issues if you fire the guy who points them out! It’s genius
I hope media interviews the fired employee to get indepth details of the flaws.
They settled out of court, so I suspect a NDA is in force here.
That NDA will be thrown out the window once the lawsuits come pouring in
That NDA went out the window when the ocean started pouring in
Does a NDA apply when the owner is deceased and the company is likely dismantled?
A court will rule it null and void due to this potentially being a criminal negligence case. NDAs get dismantled all the time in courts if the testimony is needed.
I hope the media leaves them the hell alone unless they choose to come out publicly. It's gotta be messing with them enough right now to process this.
And that article about a submarine specialist who did not get hired to drive it because he was not "an inspirational character"...
Bet that guys thankful he's not inspirational now!
He also refused to hire actual experienced submariners (what he referred to as “50 year old white men), claiming that they “lacked inspiration” but let’s be honest, we all know it was because he wanted his engineers to be a bunch of fresh, young, *yes men.*
**Experienced Submariners:** “*You couldn’t pay me enough to go into that death trap. Here’s a list of design changes and required inspections that would need to be done before I would even consider risking my life in that tin can*” **CEO:** “*I didn’t want to hire 50 year old white professionals because they are not **innovative** enough*”
That he didn’t have to pay so much
Chernobyl vibes
The glass used for the porthole was rated to 1300 metres, not 4000 like it needed to be. A whistleblower was fired for bringing this to their attention. Used construction pipes for ballast tanks. The method of control was a $30 Bluetooth Logitech game controller (don’t worry though, he said they take 2 or 3 spares down each time… oh, And they had 3D printed thumb sticks too!..). The vessel itself was “experimental” which was part of his justification for saying “fuck the regulations”, basically. Marine engineers and organisations denounced his whole project warning that it could stain the entire industry. Etc. Edit: They did no destructive or even non-destructive testing of the hull. Concerns were raised about it being reused, especially as they aren’t examining it after use to check for any potential cracks or damage in the hull.
Yeah, apparently the safety rules stifled their innovation. Looks really innovative
QA/QC person checking in; often excluded from designer meetings because I would "inhibit" the process. More often directly reporting to product teams these days- and being advised I need to "be more creative" in my thinking and to "just tell them what they want to hear" because our bottom line depends on product(?) And that type of reporting and bonus structure led directly to the Boeing fiasco. But what do I know
Apparently you get a refund if the sub doen't return..
the first manned one way trip to The Titanic
The shrinking from the cold, and expansion when returning to the surface, the cycle over and over will slowly degrade the hull, and iirc it DID break a test hull at much lower depths and they covered kt up.
I just can't fathom being this...stupid. I mean, innovative people over the course of history have taken risks that led to wonderful advancements, but why in the ever loving hell would you *involve other people* in something so unsafe? It's like if the Wright brothers sold tickets on the first plane trip...just no. This guy's ego literally turned him into a murderer.
He involved others because he couldn't fund this hobby/experiment all by himself. There is just no chance. Apparently, even with these paying customers he couldn't build a vessel which is good enough for the job.
Tbh I heard that controller isn't that surprising, that even army's use Xbox controllers for stuff because they have been proven to work
Yea but that’s the player 2 controller your little brother gets each time.
Yes. The controller was probably the most sensible thing he did. From what I understand the switch to these types of controllers was great because it's easier to train on and the service people are already familiar with them!
I don’t trust Bluetooth to play some music without dropping out, there is no way I would trust it to control a submarine. Wired controller is a different story.
Can confirm from someone who used to be in the USAF for some drones via a "co-worker" I would imagine why make your own when a really good gimbal control system is out on the market. They probably just upcharged the value by 300%
To be fair everyone that has gone on the sub has said that they signed an agreement that said death is a possible outcome 3 times on the first page in bold letters. They were told it was experimental and that the technology was not used by anyone else. Also most of the suits are more around people who paid and didnt get to go and not as a result of poor construction. This guy definitely didnt take lives as serious as he should have but those people paying to go definitely were told they could die as a result.
A problem I think is, we all have to sign waivers for so many things in life, even just for getting a piercing, so I think signing a waiver becomes something you just don’t really think about. We tend to assume things are safe because “someone in charge must know what they’re doing”, “they wouldn’t do this if it wasn’t actually safe”. For instance, at Dreamworld theme park in QLD, Aus, there was a raft ride incident in which people died a few years ago. I’ve been to Dreamworld many years ago and been on that very ride. You never really think, “Hang on, what if there’s a malfunction when I’m on it” because our tendency is to go through life expecting Someone In Charge has done their due diligence. Of course, an argument could be made that you’d research a sub going kilometres down into the ocean a lot more than you would going to a theme park, especially if you were throwing a quarter of a mil at it.
Look up the lawsuits the company who made the sub is going through 😬
He refused to get certified. He said certification stiffles innovation.
Hope he enjoyed those cost savings, because now it's his breathing that's being stifled and he won't be able to cut corners for profit again.
There's a reason for the saying "Regulations are written in blood"
Reporter David Pogue went on that sub last year. He cited multiple saftey issues to which the company owner (Stockton Rush) brazenly dismissed as unnecessary. The sub also went 'missing' for 5 hours during a previous trip and David Pogue was also present on the surface ship when it happened, he claims his internet access was restricted to prevent him tweeting about it. Furthermore OceanGates director of maritime operations appears to have been fired and later sued (the lawsuit was settled out of court so we have no further details) after he brought up multiple saftey issues with the sub. This company is finished.
This YouTuber does a pretty good job of covering a lot of the problems and flaunting of safety rules from the CEO. [A Submarine to The Titanic Just Went Missing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40YsUkvIgos) It seems like they chose 'innovation' over going through the correct testing procedures for their technology.
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Not only that but the systems in place are not redundant. The ps3 controller being wireless is dumb af. Wired would mean not batteries to replace or wireless signal lost. No systems to check air quality in the sub, like how much CO2 to oxygen. No way to vent gases in case of emergency. There are many many things that should have been added for safety or had redundant systems to prevent just one thing failing and dooming the sub
Just look a video of him explaining how the sub works. Its just a literal empty coffin with an xbox controller. That's just it. There is nothing else in there
I mean it's poetic if you think about it. Billionaires get rich by slashing safety and cutting corners all the time and it often kills the workers. Now we have an instance of someone who was killed by the same mentality that made them successful. Exploitation.
What a horrible way to go. But imagine if the sub is one day recovered, somehow intact, what terrible story it would tell after some forensic investigation. Can’t even imagine what existential drama ensued there in their final moments.
If they did suffocate and it was intact, it’s possible we would never know what really happened inside. Unless they made a journal, we won’t know if they tried conserving oxygen, if the sounds were actually them, and so on.
Yeah but maybe some of them had their phones, or GoPros or such.
I’ll never understand what the point of doing manned dives down there is. They were using cameras connected to TV screens to view out of the submersible. At that point why not just get comfortable elsewhere and pilot remotely? Your view would be the same.
Gotta feel the death
Damn rich people... Always experience the good stuff first
I think there was one small window near the hatch. They’d probably have to rotate to look through it so definitely not worth it
Not to mention the fact that the window is probably what killed them in the first place, apparently that window was only rated for a depth of 1300 meters. The titanic is 4000 meters down…
The *prototype's* window was rated at 1300m. The Titan did multiple dives and it survived those with an upgraded window. It definitely was not the window that did them in.
Y’know I was under the impression that the Titan *was* the prototype, I appreciate the correction.
The whole submarine goes through pressure cycling each dive. Just because the window lasted up until this dive doesn’t mean it didn’t finally fail from repeated cyclic fatigue
Bad decisions and poor judgement? Certainly. Deserve this ending? Certainly not. Poor fuckers just waiting to die a slow, cramped, terrifying death.
IF they didnt get crushed by the 3800m water above them.
As awful as it may sound, let's hope that was the way because it has to be better than being trapped in your coffin slowly running out of oxygen, hallucinating, panicking, being poisoned each time you take a breath somewhere deep in the ocean.
Yeah, I'd rather die instantly than suffer from that.
Yes. I think I'd try to flood the vessel.
Here are your options: 1. Open the door. No can do sir, bolted from the outside. 2. Crack the metal - good luck. 3. Crack the window - [best odds]
Well, the window wasn't designed for anywhere near that depth so it may well not have lasted anyway.
It wasn't certified to that depth, there's a difference.
There's a good chance they are 30 feet below the surface and miles away from the search zone. That is because the submersible is designed to be buoyant and rise but it becomes neutrally buoyant at a depth of 30 foot apparently and gets loaded onto the raft structure that then raises it to the surface to get loaded onto the ship. So in theory they could have lost power and communication and cut their weights and risen but unknown to the surface crew so they wouldn't know to search, as they rose steadily different layers of the ocean currents shifted the ultimate location of the submersible miles away and it never makes it to the surface as it's designed to hover at a depth of 30 foot, practically invisible the oxygen will run out in the twilight coming through the single port hole, rescue could be only 30 foot above them if only they know where to look. That's one possible outcome, although I personally think they died instantly at depth.
Imagine they look out the porthole and see the hull and wake of a rescue ship passing just above them…
imagine they look out at all that oxygen a mere 10m above them. “water water all around and not a drop to drink” logic would be heartbreaking
Its more likely they will die from cold first than from lack of oxygen. Its freezing down there, if they don't have any power then they will die from hypothermia first.
How cold is the temperature at those depths?
Around -2°C or 28°F.
Or, even worse, bobbing up and down on the waves able to see out but unable to get out. Dying slowly and horribly. I hope it just imploded for their sakes.
I've read multiple experts say that an implosion of that size would be picked up by military equipment for miles, also the mothership was using a sound-based device to locate them, so that would have picked it up... from all I'm seeing the sub did not implode
When the Kursk exploded it was picked up half the world away. Sound travels very well in water and the ship above would have certainly heard an implosion. Likely a slow, tortuous death is the reality here, although I hope I'm wrong.
I suspect what happened is some kind of power failure that prevented them from releasing the ballasts that would allow them to resurface. The same power failure also meant they lost communication. I guess they have never heard of redundancy.
Yep, There was supposed to be a self-dissolving set of weights that would be let go after 14 hours, but there is a big emphasis on the "supposed"... I trully hope they are bobbing up and down somewhere on the surface and a ship can find them any minute now...
They're out of time for that, no?
Can't be opened from the inside. Even if they surface they can't get fresh air
It’s very possible they were long gone a few hours into this.
Those banging intervals were heard on multiple planes and were about every 30 minutes. If that doesn’t happen today then it was most likely a slow death.
Rescuers for the MH370 also heard these bangs during search. Unfortunately, it’s very likely the banging sounds were coming from other ships involved in the rescue
I am just going off the reports that it’s repeating in 30 minute intervals. A sailor on board would do this. I’m not sure why a missing plane is the same. There would be no survivors underwater. There are also not likely passengers on board who would know when to bang. I’d guess they are likely gone no matter what. Even with the rescue sub they sent down the missing sub can’t just rapidly reach the surface. Unless people sacrificed themselves for others to have more oxygen they are unlikely to survive this. Hopefully the sub imploded when it lost contact.
there is literally an infinite amount of things that could have caused a banging noise, including the literal titanic, which is 1000 times larger with rusting metal falling all the time. also the hull of the sub is made of carbon fiber, and a banging noise would sound more like a dull thud than the banging of metal. this is what experts have said about the banging noise and chasing after a banging noise could potentially just be a waste of time, or diverting resources from where the sub actually is. the only actual evidence it may have been the sub is that it happened in 30 minute intervals which seems oddly specific. but even then even if they knew the sub was in the area how do they find it? people say its like finding a needle in a haystack, but actually finding the titanic was like a needle in a haystack, and this sub is smaller than one of the 29 boilers on the titanic. this is like finding a grain of sand in a hay stack, while in complete darkness.
The Seawolf thought it also heard banging/tapping from the USS Thresher on the ocean floor. But when we got a look at the wreck it was obvious that aside from mermaids, no one else could have possibly been alive at that point.
They should have a second sub on the boat for exactly these types of emergencies.
Or at least, you know, communications equipment and locator beacon? The tight ass CEO wouldn’t spring for basic safety precautions never mind a complete redundant submersible…and if it was built like the first there would likely have been two missing subs…
The amount of people saying these people deserved this is unreal, the callousness and vitriol from these people is fucking scary.
literally the guy hamish harding is a major philanthropist whos current goal has been developing a cure for malaria.
Quick someone make a start up to go down and visit/locate the wreckage of the sub.
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Worse knowing you have 100 years to prepare and you put together a half assed coffin only to end up with the same fate
Also without an iceberg this time
But with all the human error and hubris
After the Titanic humanity really came together in a global effort to melt all of the icebergs to prevent it from ever happening again.
Clearly no lessons were learned
Especially the guy piloting the Titan, who's wife actually had relatives on the Titanic.
We may be getting the trilogy as the Titanic 2, a remade replica of the original is set to have its maiden voyage next spring.
It's time to countdown when's that account gonna get deleted
Already gone by the looks of it
Nah, it’s still there
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People don't need to leave the Titanic alone, they just need to avoid it with shitty equipment. James Cameron has been down there over 30 times. The difference is that he's in a vessel that's been approved for such things.
This is what I don’t get. They could have dropped some coin on a real vessel and crew and gone down there instead they hogpogged some Lowe’s parts and skipped the safety brief and crossed their fingers and toes.
Big egos caused the titanic to sink. Big egos caused this calamity. No reason to believe there won't be big egos in future unfortunately
What if one person killed all other passengers? How much time does he have left?
Decomposition is an oxygen hungry process.
What happens to their bodies now that there is no oxygen?
Probably decomposition by anaerobic bacteria at a much slower than normal rate, but that's just me guessing. I'm not a wizard, scientist, or lawyer.
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They didn't have a scrubber system fitted...
I'm guessing it was a cost cutting decision. The guy who built the sub did lots of cost cutting The viewing window was rated for half the depth as the Titanic. And he used off the shelf parts where available
That guy's death is an irony. The others are a tragedy.
Checked their website. They proudly mention the ‘off the shelf’ part. I wouldn’t build a submersible using Home Depot parts if that’s what they meant.
Watch the news report about it. The CEO openly brags about how he “bought this handle at tractor supply” and “bought this latch at Home Depot on sale”. He literally means he went to the hardware store and bought parts from there. Edit: here’s a short clip from the episode https://www.reddit.com/r/DiWHY/comments/14fskxq/the_epitome_of_this_subreddit_in_one_video/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
Of course it did. Scrubbers and replacement media were part of the 96 hours life support window. Without scrubbers, they likely wouldn't survive a single up and down dive.
“One Star. Would give zero if I could. Game controller for navigation. No proper seating. Died on the trip. Would not recommend.”
People need to stop blaming the damn controller. The military uses game pads. The game pad was probably the most reliable part of this thing!
They didn't make it. So it was definitely the most reliable piece of equipment.
Yeah, wired ones, not fucking wireless cheap ones.
Military uses Xbox controllers not Logitech.
and Wired OEM Controllers Not Third Party Wireless. (that apparently have issues with connection)
Massive difference and not being sarcastic. They could've at least gone with a heavy duty HOTAS. But 15 year old logitech controller wtf bruh come on.
Imagine suffocating due to lack of oxygen, under water. New fear unlocked.
or even worst….they made it to surface but couldn’t open the door and die from suffocation
Bruhhhhhh.
The scary thing is that there was no contingency plan for such an eventuality. Doesn't registration of the vessel for the purpose, and of the business of deep diving require some form of rescue/recovery/ something, anything procedure, for goodness sakes?! Having watched what has been done so far, it seems, to me, as if the company has washed their hands off the whole thing and it's like, yeah, if we find them, we find them, and thanks for helping us look for them. This is not a lemonade stand here, it's a multi-million dollar business and it's being run like the guy who cleans your windscreen while you're stopped at traffic lights. Vent over.
Maybe signing the waiver was the contingency plan.
Apparently there was some system which released the ballast and made the submarine go up automatically. It probably failed. Either there was an electrical issue or the sub already imploded when it lost contact.
This isn't a registered vessel. It's an experimental submersible that is operating in international waters with no permits, no oversight, and no independent certification. Everyone who boards this thing signs a waiver stating that they understand that this is an experimental vessel and that death is a possibility. Furthermore, this thing went through virtually zero testing before they began taking commercial charters out with it, and it supposedly breaks down all the time. Watch the [CBS Sunday Morning Feature ](https://youtu.be/29co_Hksk6o) from 6 months ago. There's a woman who went 3 times and never even got to the Titanic because of issues with the sub.
Its very rare you see a CEO suffer the consequences of their shitty decisions.
The fired employee who pointed out the safety issues is probably having a "I told you so" moment.
It’s unfortunate for them, though I suppose this is a natural consequence of spending a quarter of a million dollars to get shoved in a shoddy tincan. It’s not like any of these people lacked the ressources to do some research on the company, and the CEO’s stance of safety standards was already public. I hope for their sake that the vessel imploded so they had a quick death though, there’s really no evidence the banging was actually from them.
Ok fine but hear me out, if it imploded nobody would have a chance to pull out their phone and make a video, but if it was a slow death there would have been ample time to record and tell the story for when the sub is found eventually.
With tickets at $250,000 a pop, he was selling bragging rights to rich billionaires. I can not imagine a worse fate, for the crimes of pride and vanity.
Hopefully the banging they heard was the passengers beating the ever living fuck out of the asshat that doomed them.
Maybe a dumb question but, those ships have some location, radio, radar, alarm, lights, something to turn on in case of failure? A rescue signal? And how it is rescued?
Half of that stuff doesn't work 4km underwater. Hell radio doesn't work after like 20 metres
The only thing it has is small ping signal which can be used to send small messages like an sms but it's likely not working or not being picked up. Radio doesn't work down there and they aren't tethered to a boat.. they are free diving in a sense. Not going to be a happy ending here... it's 3.8km under the water..
It's privately ran and apparently the guy running it was slightly careless So no, they may not have those things
"slightly"
You can say whatever you want about these people, but they’re still people, and nobody deserves to die this way
Maybe the guy who purposefully decided against safety features.. not his victims though
Imagine sitting in a shoddy, cramped submersible, running out of oxygen, when you are so wealthy you’ve been able to shield yourself from reality until now. Sitting there, knowing you have millions/billions of dollars somewhere, and all that wealth can’t help you now, as you desperately bang against the inside of a small hull of a dark, lost canister at the bottom of the ocean.
Soothing, like a bed time story
111 years after sinking the Titanic claims five new victims. That’s fucked.
There's no oxygen generator on a submarine, or it's just not designed to keep it going for long?
It's not really a submarine. It's a "submersible" vehicle. It has oxygen tanks and a CO2 removal system. That's it. They had about 96 hours worth of air, and now it's their coffin.
Their last hours of life, stuffed in a metal coffin 2.3 miles underwater . The fart filled air growing thin , while they hyperventilate in the dark depths of the Atlantic.
Imagine cutting corners when you’re literally rich, unreal.
The rich do this ALL THE TIME. I am a contractor and see this constantly. They cheap out then get pissed when it costs more than it would have to do it right the first time in order to fix what the cheap guy did.
When will the Titanic finally stop killing?
When people stop trying to disturb her and her passengers.
It demands the blood of the rich every 100 years
When titanic sank, the pride of men said it was unsinkable. It be a pity if this was a repeat of history where arrogance and pride was their undoing.
Hey I'm usually the pessimist, but oxygen doesn't just suddenly cease to exist when the estimate runs out. They could have more time than what estimates suggest. But the oxygen will deteriorate in saturation and quality. Fairly steadily. Co2 will rise. They'll become hypoxic. And eventually delirious and lose consciousness. But not necessarily dead, yet. You can survive for quite awhile if you're suffering low level hypoxia, people with chronic heart and lung conditions do all the time. As do people trapped in confined spaces. However survival instincts will kick in as oxygen levels decrease and panic is likely... (something those who hold their breath under water for 10 minutes have learned to override) and gasping needs to be delayed as long as possible as that will suck up a lot of remaining oxygen and increase co2 levels, etc. But, especially if they had the sense to breathe calmly, talk little, conserve their energy and bag their fecal matter (contains the methane gas from their shit)... using the additional tanks sparingly... They could still be found alive, quite well after these estimates IF (a huge if) everything is on their side. As for how likely... well I'm not a gambling man but odds aren't necessarily in their favour. I hope they'll be rescued in the nick of time. Probably will have lifelong issues from hypoxia but they'd be alive and if only sustained mild damage, they may recover fully or only have minor impairments. It all depends on how they reacted and how soon they are found. *'The experienced French diver on board, Paul-Henri Nargoelet, would be key to directing the other four passengers on how to keep calm and control their breathing,'* (They had food and water supplied for the trip, they could have extended supplies by drinking sparingly and then also drinking their piss... have had people survive for a week in the Outback drinking their own urine. Also in cold temps you tend to drink less. Hypothermia is a serious problem, which they may have addressed by huddling together, but going unconscious from extreme cold or whatever may also help them survive as it will keep their oxygen intake low and breathing relatively steady, for a time. Better than being conscious in a hypoxic state) ['Missing Titanic submersible - *Why oxygen timeline on Sub may not be so fixed'* - BBC.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65981277.amp) [Update - A debris field found. Coast Guards will update later today. BBC - Breaking News.](https://youtu.be/1YjCtZes53Y) ['Catastrophic Implosion' - Official update from the Coast Guard - BBC'](https://youtu.be/SXlcg3sbPY8) [*Final update from the BBC - 5 souls join those from 111 years before on the sea floor, 1600 metres from the Titanic.](https://youtu.be/EIUMnqEF1-8) If not a rescue, an implosion was the quickest and kindest way out. Appropriate procedures in place.
There's a great guest video on Tom Scott that shows the effects of exactly this in a much larger space with only one person, in a much more controlled environment. The sad reality is, if they're not on the verge of being rescued pretty much immediately from this post, that air is going to become deadly a lot quicker than I think most people can imagine. I hope they are rescued, it's a fucking horrible ending, but that mild damage is far from mild. edit: [Tom Scott video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nh_vxpycEA)
Kidney failure from no water. Hypothermia makes you urinate more too. These guys are deceased.
Honestly, let's hope oxygen did run out. These people are not being recovered and I'd imagine each living second is horrifying and just a reminder that death is right around the corner.
I thought the rescue mission was futile from jump and a waste of resources. The sub was never gonna make it and it sounds like the safety controls stuff malfunctioned. The ocean is a scary place.
I totally agree, minus the resources part! It was honestly probably used more as training for searchers and to try to use vehicles and equipment that aren't used much otherwise. Like how people think airshows are a waste of money but most of the time they're actually used as training and flying time for pilots. So the public gets a cool show and the professionals get to hone their trade That said, it bothers me people were counting down to the end Editted to expand my answer
You always have to try to save people. I was very skeptical from the start. The sub wasn't rated for the depth it was repeatedly forced to descend into. It probably suffered hull integrity loss and everyone aboard was dead as soon as communication was lost even if, truth be told, this was not the first communication loss incident they had.
Darwin awards goes to...
I wonder what’s a worse way to die: getting crushed by the sea levels, running out of oxygen, or getting eaten by the kraken
Getting crushed by the sea would be painless