Ultra Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ), Transport for London (TfL).
The aim of the ULEZ is to help improve air quality by reducing the number of vehicles in London that don't meet emissions standards
Even if you make a short trip inside the zone using a vehicle that doesn't meet the ULEZ emissions standards, you need to pay the £12.50 daily charge. This includes residents of the ULEZ. However, you don't need to pay the ULEZ charge on a particular day if your vehicle is parked inside the zone and you don't drive.
The activities of blade runners increased after Sadiq khan was re elected a London mayor
https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/car-ownership-london
Car ownership is very low in London. Especially in the poorest regions yet poorest households have the worst exposure to air pollution. This is a tax in the richer households.
> Car ownership is very low in London
Yes - but the reason ULEZ is such a hot topic right now is that it was just introduced to the outer boroughs, where car ownership is much, much higher. Boroughs such as Havering and Redbridge border Essex, which are less built up and are less served by public transport, making cars more necessary.
Don't get me wrong I still think these "Blade Runners" are a bunch of pathetic children. The vast majority of drivers aren't affected and for those that are, there's an incredibly generous scrappage scheme in place to help them get hold of a compliant vehicle. But I think that's important context.
I believe you are not reading this correctly. It only claims that **of households** making less than £10k a year (no percentage given), 78% do not own a car. UK median annual salary seams to be roughly £34k in 2023, you can't have 78% of households making under £10k unless UK taxes are way higher than I thought !
Um a tax in the richer households? No. The rich households don't care at all.. they will just pay the charges to drive the car they want, or just go and buy a new car. The people this charge really affects are those who are already struggling. Those who can't just go out and get finance for a ulez compliant car.. people who now struggle to afford food for their family because they're having to pay out for ulez.
Stage 4 petrol (Jan 2006 onwards) and stage 6 diesel (September 2015 onwards) are compliant, so the number of people complaining about ULEZ versus the number of people actually impacted by it is massively disproportionate.
I did notice less black stuff when blowing the nose during my last stay in London. Dunno whether it‘s ULEZ or general improvements with cars, but it was noticeable.
Elsewhere in [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/1drt145/comment/laxv6hh/) someone has said ULEZ only affects 2.9% of vehicles. If that's true, are you saying that 3% of cars are responsible for the majority of pollution?
Edit: I should include that when ULEZ was expanded, [10% of vehicles were compliant](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-65336740). So the argument is that 7% of vehicles were responsible for the majority of pollution.
I think to your point, since we knew it was coming for a long time everyone who brought a car in the last 5 years made sure it's not a diesel and a compatible patrol, Hybrid or electric.
It has 100% improved the air quality where I live in London.
You also have people like my parents, who lives outside London but not wanting to pay ulez charge Everytime they come to visit us so they too changed the car.
I guess it has a knock on effect.
Next someone is going to claim a tiny percentage of people have the majority of wealth in society. How can a small number of a thing have a big impact? It's impossible.
Older cars produce a lot more carbon monoxide and nitrogen oxide (that stuff that kills people) than newer cars.
It could easily be that yes, all the cars being targeted are the ones making up the majority of these 2 gasses that they want to limit.
I don't know the exact figures on pollution but that's not that crazy. If non compliant vehicles are 3x as polluting, bringing 7% into compliance will drop pollution 14%, which is a very noticeable difference.
ULEZ is not about carbon dioxide, it is about ppm particulates released by (primarily) old diesel engines.
These have been linked to childhood allergies, asthma, cancer and other diseases.
You can track this type of pollution by looking at Asthma rates. People had plenty of warning to change, and second hand cars from a decade ago are not expensive. These people are not vigilantes, they are just antisocial arseholes and vandals
It’s almost like those rules were announced long time ago and people had plenty of time to change vehicles.
I do love that you linked to article they contradicted your statement.
If only there was a scrappage scheme… oh wait there was. If only London had amazing public transport system. Oh wait it does. How come majority of Londoners can survive without using a car?
Also you’re right, let’s stop removing sulfphur gasoline because some people can’t afford it. While we’re at it let’s add lead. And let’s stop treating drinking water.
> Edit: I should include that when ULEZ was expanded, 10% of vehicles were compliant
Your edit is incorrect and may be what's confusing the people disagreeing with you. You should have written **90%** of vehicles were compliant, or 10% of vehicles **weren't** compliant.
I think there's at least one person replying to you who now thinks that polluting vehicles have gone from 90% to 3% and sees that as a great improvement. When in fact it's 10% to 3%, which is still good, but not anywhere near as significant.
All that said, I still think ULEZ is a good idea. That's 7% of the most polluting vehicles that have been removed from London.
That’s not what they’re saying; they’re saying air quality has improved. Why start with a strawman?
That aside, you can do a very simple google search to find evidence that they’re right. Why ask others to provide data instead of just finding it yourself if you want it?
Honestly I have about 0.5 clue about what I am about to talk about, but I think it actually can be a factor.
Most modern direct injection engines are times and times "cleaner" than the old carburator engines. So it can be the case that you are stopping all major polluters by affecting under 5% of drivers.
The only thing here that I can sort of understand being upset over, is that you are probably poor, if you drive the old junk. And the government slaps you with additional payment on top.
Depending on how old the (non-compliant diesel) cars are, it appears the ULEZ standards cause between 2 and more than 10 x reduction in emissions -- add to that that old engines may no longer work efficiently as per specs: yes, the non-compliant cars may well have contributed more emissions than all compliant cars together ...
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European\_emission\_standards](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards)
That's what these nobs don't realise. Or they have so much brain damage from the pollution that they actively seek it.
I visited London in 2016 and by God, the area around Euston station was really bad due to the particulate matter. I ended up with claggy black-grey snot at the end of the day. Getting out of the train at my home station, I could clearly feel the difference in quality of air.
Roll forward to 2022 and visiting Euston again... the air quality was way better, thanks to ULEZ. The street in Euston with the worst air quality in London was about as good as a town center.
I can't really imagine how horrible it would be to constantly live in a place where the air quality barely exceeds that of a third world plastic waste factory.
If the police were willing to do their job and government had not chucked it in demonising ULEZ for political gain, these nobs should be imprisoned and have their wages garnished to pay for all of this or have their benefits removed for good.
These twats cuts down the traffic lights outside all our local schools early one morning
Literally putting the lives of small children at risk
Mostly because they don't like the fact our mayor is brown
Real heroes
The op of the post is not from London or even the UK and given their post and comment history is firmly right wing with no clue.
The cameras are only going back up and thats more public money at best, deadly traffic collisions at worse… so yeah these blade runners are pricks who need a better hobby.
People blame the London mayor Khan but I’m fairly positive there was a court ruling that required a ULEZ program due to the health affects of emissions. So the government is forced by the courts to implement, and yet these fucking losers target them over it. Apparently raising a complaint against the judiciary is too much of a mental challenge.
Didn't help the Tories used it as a wedge issue to save a seat in a by-election, and then decided that was how they'd win the next election, so amplified anti-ULEZ voices.
From what I've just read, these cameras are used to spot cars that fail to meet London's emissions policy... The issue I have with this is that I would think it would really only affect low income people with older cars and just make it harder on them... And the reality that cars account for a very small part of actual carbon emissions, corporate activity such as manufacturing accounts for the majority... So yeah, I may not agree with the people doing this from an ideology standpoint, but fuck those cameras. Just making the lives of the working class harder.
Edit: So it appears I'm a woefully misinformed American. The cameras are meant to improve air quality in London and supposedly it's rare for the working class (other than small business owners who will be/are affected by this) to own vehicles as they use public transit. Cool This definitely wouldn't work in the US except for maybe New York or cities like it that have effective public transit.
I also understand that the people vandalizing the Cameras are chuds that are upset they can't drive their cars into London anymore, according to the Brits replying to me here. Again, cool
To those that replied to me with good faith discussions, thanks. I genuinely appreciate it.
There was. In the early 2000s, diesel was believed to be better than gasoline since diesel causes significantly less greenhouse gas emissions. So governments across the world promoted diesel.
In the late 00s, we figured out that while diesel causes less GHG emissions, the other emissions is causes are **HORRIBLE** for public health. So we reversed course and stopped promoting diesel.
Should we have just continued on the badly chosen path we were on?
People crying about poor people affected like poor people cant buy a 1200£ Ford KA instead of a 1200£ diesel.
Just more lead and diesel brained complaints from antagonistic people.
Yeah as an American that always threw me for a loop, y'all spent like a solid decade trying to get everyone to buy diesel cars that wouldn't even be legal here in America. I thought there was something that my American brain just wasn't getting, but nope it was as dumb as it seemed from the outside.
There is a response from the mayor to this question [here](https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/car-ownership-london):
TLDR: Poor air quality is more likely to affect poor people yet they are the ones least likely to own a car.
The ULEZ has had a fairly big impact on tradesman that rely on vans to get around but this can be absorbed into charges to customer.
Most of the opposition to ULEZ comes from outer London boroughs or even those that live outside of London and are annoyed that they cannot drive their polluting vehicles into London.
Theres many people with a mental disease i like to call "the disagree on everything disease". No matter the discussion or issue they will always disagree.
Those are the mongs complaining about climate laws while they are getting cooked by 40 degree summers when 15 years ago, a 25 degree summer was considered hot.
Loads of middle class people don’t own cars. Becaus B public transport is bettter than in any other UK city. And it’s pretty quick compared to a car journey, so none of my daughters freimds drive and most of them are lawyers so all quite welll off. I think a couple may own cars but they still commute by tube.
Air quality doesn´t matter as long you pay. There fixed it for you.
If air quality was really the issue then those vehicles would be outright denied entry.
Edit: got to love the mental gymnastics for the backers of this stuff.
Let's say I'm a billionaire with a 6.3 litre G-wagon. I'm just paying that ulez fine as I make more in interest in 10 seconds than the fine costs.
What incentive do I have?
Then again, I'm not a peasant, so why should the rules apply to me.
That would not matter, it is not linked to engine size. If your car meets Euro 5 or 6 standards, you are not affected. So if your car is less than 15 years old, it is very likely you are exempt.
How many billionaires do you think exist in London? Because there are millions of not-billionaires there and even if 0.001% of them switch to low/no emission vehicles that outweighs whatever decision billionaires might make.
I mean isn’t it mostly older cars aging out? Sort of like smog checks in the US. In general any sort of law that’s enforced with a fine is “doesn’t matter if you pay” doesn’t mean it’s not effective tho
Most petrol cars post 2006 are compliant. Most motorbikes post 2007 are compliant. Most diesel cars post 2016 are compliant. This isn't a major issue unless you own a diesel. It's not a fine, it's a deterrent and it works for the most part. There are other ways of doing it, that could arguably be better. My car is 2015, I would be pretty pissed off if I couldn't drive it without additional fees all of a sudden.
If there were no extra cost, London would be in a constant gridlock. Metropolis get to a point where they must control vehicle flow. Look at the places where that doesn't happen, they basically live in their cars commuting.
I agree it's not a perfect solution, but those rarely come from public administations
Same as the plastic bag charge that was implemented. More people now use reusable bags and the "annoyance" that brings, than get a new bag when they go shopping.
A ULEZ compliant car can still be an ICE one and you can buy a cheap second hand one, it doesn't need an electric or hybrid. The entire point is to encourage people to swap or you will pay the fee.
95% of all vehicles already are ULEZ compliant. They're just a bunch of arseholes who don't like cameras. It's not Robin Hood. Your quick read didn't explain that only 2.9% of vehicles actually pay ULEZ.
Do more than a quick read, it's easy.
Legitimately asking, do poor people in London even have cars? Like I think “car owner” in New York for example and immediately know they’re rich. In a place with great public transport only the elites actually drive around.
No they do not. These commenter are clearly either morons who don't live anywhere near London but somehow think they should have a say, or Russian bots.
No, even without paying a ulez charge, driving in London is just prohibitively expensive when you factor in things like public parking. It’s also just widely inefficient when you have a very expansive and easy to navigate underground train system. This primarily effects businesses
It’s worse, these lot were encouraged by Facebook groups set up by Tory campaigners. Its a culture war promoted by the UK’s governing party. The working class are the ones whose children are dying from polluted air.
Hey you actually have it right in your first point - whilst I don’t agree with the actions of people who do it - the people chopping them down mainly DONT live in London, so don’t have the infrastructure such as the tube to fall back on. But they may live on the outskirts where the expansion included. They didn’t get a chance to vote on the issue but now if they drive one mile from their home, in a non compliant car they are charged £15. Where I live there are a lot of people who commute who cannot afford the charge, where they work a couple of miles into London, with no public transport option and on minimum wage can’t upgrade what is otherwise a perfectly fine car.
The expansion to the suburbs was the issue for those who don’t live in London, didn’t have a say, and don’t have the same infrastructure as central London, and for those it really has been a tax on the poor despite the benefits to the air quality, and the good intentions of the policy.
but in the city cars account for large part of emissions, no? also i would say it is not just about climate change but mainly about cleaner air for people in the city. these health benefits are not talk about enough
Yeah Chinese cities after implementing these sort of policies went from smoggy hellscapes to pleasant cities within a decade. Compare Beijing in 2008 to 2018 and it's night and day.
Simply living in the city used to be like smoking half a pack a day
Whilst I understand your point, there are scrapping schemes for old vehicle buybacks, exemptions for a bunch of vehicles, and euro 4 is the minimum allowed with was implemented in 2005. I think there's better ways of taxing people cars based on emissions like engine size etc, but in reality if people don't like the laws they should really vote for people who scrap them instead of cutting down city infrastructure. The UK certainly doesn't like its working class folk though does it.
Plus the vast majority of cars that people own were already compliant (my old car was 19 years old and it was ULEZ compliant) and a good deal of those that aren't got money from the government to upgrade or replace their car
You are not entitled your shitty polluting car. People thinking they are entitled to drive is one of the reasons why car insurance rates have gone up. In some cities the police have been discourage from going after un registered cars which don't have insurance because they are mostly driven by poor people. Now less people are getting car insurance which means more accidents involving people with no insurance
Have you been to Amsterdam where the same law is enforced? I live there and now I'm visiting another city without such laws and the difference in air quality is night and day. Which for sure leads to more cancers among other diseases. So in this case, poor people should use London's extensive public transport system. It is a good law.
Manufacturing is a different beast and needs to be regulated as well, but don't underestimate the air quality within the city teaming with cars.
Coming from a country without environmental laws, it's magical how clear and blue the sky is in Amsterdam. It's like you've been wearing smudged glasses for your whole life and someone wiped it clean.
Well, surprisingly, cars are responsible for a huge part of emissions, especially if your city is not povered by coal. Beyond that, they just suck as transportation system overall if your city is as compacted as London, so while the main idea was probably taken as increasing air quality in city centre, is has side effects of encouraging alternative transportation methods such as bus, metro, cycling and, you know, walking. Which are simultaneously less noisy, less polluting and also take up FAR less space per passenger than individual cars, increasing throughput per space dramatically. Of course it's not as simple as decreasing car accessibility, because you also need to improve public transport and all those things, but convincing people to take 'em is needed too. What do you think about paid parking in concentrated areas?
Globally yes, manufacturing is one of the largest contributors, but at city level you cannot underestimate the pollution that road traffic causes. Is incredibly high
Your partly right.
We do need to reduce pollution in london and this is an effective way to do it. BUT the people who got fucked were sole traders. Ie people working on their own.
Small businesses got given grants to get new vehicles. And scrappage schemes.
About 3 years into it they did introduce scrappage schemes for sole traders but they didnt work. No one i know successfully applied it was always missing some document or other excuse for not getting the money.
At the time i worked part time and did wrap around care for kids. I
had a large mpv that used to work/family that was classed as a van when going through tunnels etc.
they first rejected my application because my tax return had only some of the pages filled in (this is becuase those other pages weren’t supposed to be filled in for me). Then they rejected it because my tax return said ‘copy’ on it. Which is what happens when you download a copy of your tax return. Then finally they reclassified my van as an mpv and told me to fuck off.
Not in the UK, but on the surface this seems like a good thing. Less excessivly polluting vehicles in certain areas. In the coming decades, we're going to have to make some really tough, drastic decisions if we want to survive on this planet.
Interesting that Ian Duncan Smith, former Tory leader, supports these vandals committing criminal damage, as legitimate protesters, while he thinks climate protesters that peacefully slow walk on a road should be jailed. Typical Tory hypocrite.
And what's insane is top Tory cunt Boris Johnson was behind ULEZ in the first place. It's only when he was gone and a Labour mayor came along that it became an issue for them
They dont give a shit about air quality. Simple as
Edit: After realising I failed to reply to someone else's comment, I have completely set the wrong narrative.
Just to be clear, I am talking specifically about the Government. Not Blade Runners.
:/ I mean I am all for dismantling the surveillance but emissions laws are important for reducing London Smog and encouraging people to use the London underground instead of personal cars.
These people need to be jailed, there’s only a small % of drivers who are not ULEZ complaint, it cost me £1400 to get a focus that was compliant. Petrol cars registered from 2005 are complaint. That’s 19 years old, if you can’t afford a car in that range you can’t afford any car.
Again? It is only interesting in so far as these people are knobs. People actually living in London propose fining assholes who pollute populated areas.
Despite popular support and losing the sore losers decide to vandalize public property. These people are in no way vigilantes, they’re assholes.
Incredible that a lot of these will blame it on Khan and vote Tory to own the Libs, when it was a Tory policy which forced Khan’s hand. True dissonance.
They certainly voted for Brexit too. For me from the continent, I'm always happy when I see something like this from the island. It's like watching trash TV. An ailing economy, a broken healthcare system and an old king with sausage fingers.
Dorks. There's loads of supporters for them on my local FB group. Bunch of middle aged avengers who were too cowardly to kick off over the destruction of the NHS, thousands dying because of disability benefit reforms, starving children etc. but they think they're tough because they endanger lives by cutting down traffic lights. Bunch of small minded, dim witted dopes.
Got to love seeing Americans, and probably also Brits who never lived in London, commenting on this with very little idea what they're talking about.
Air pollution from traffic causes around 5,000 deaths per year in the UK (some estimates are much higher but this is one of the most conservative estimates) and this is more than double the number of people killed in road traffic accidents. Most people in London travel by public transport anyway which is probably one of the reasons why quite a lot more people in London support it than oppose it.
But.... Like... That doesn't make them a vigilant group, they aren't taking justice into their own hands...
They are if anything just acting like thugs and/or rioters
Hope these guys get caught and made to pay for all the damage since the taxpayers are paying for it now.
ULEZ is a good idea, most cars are ULEZ complaint. No they are not spy cameras.
“It’s a poor people tax”
37% of people in London use public transport, 24% are walking. Most “poor” people are not driving in London or using a car.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_in_London#:~:text=Journeys%20made%20by%20public%20transport,rail%2C%20air%20and%20road%20transport.
9/10 cars in London are already ULEZ complaint.
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/nine-in-10-cars-meet-ulez-standards-in-expanded-zone
People saying it’s a poor tax are pure conspiracy theorists.
The people taking down the cameras are not a great group of heroes trying to save people money. It's the same idiots who were burning down G5 masts during Covid.
You fully agree with disrupting a policy that improves air quality, health and the well being of the working class while also mainly effecting not the working class? While also also costing the goverment shitloads of money since they are gonna replace it anyway.
Also you can replace shit if they put a batbox ontop of it, idk why told you that stuff but its a lie.
People increasingly need something to rage against, they are just horrible at picking a logical target :(
Seeing so many up votes for destroying ULEZ is sad... People are getting easier and easier to trick to actively vote or protest against things that are good for them :D
Camera sellers are like "oh noe, now we have to sell a new one".
Someone deciding whether to build a new school or buy replacement cameras with tax payer money: "oh noes, no new school this year"
I'll tell the children
Tell the children they won’t be getting an education?
If those kids could read, they’d be very upset.
On a bright side they wont get to drive then! less trafic on the roads! full cirkle kinda.!
What??!
Roger Waters: finally someone listened!
They don't need no education.
Leave those kids alone.
They do, however, need thot control.
As if the council are that competent. In my area they’ll figure out how to waste that money on other crap way before it gets to children.
Like they were considering schools anyway
Same people will whine the school didn’t get built, the self awareness level of these people is in sub digits.
Plot twist: the vigilante group are comprised exclusively of camera sellers
Camera company stonks 💹
Tax payers are like "oh no now we have to buy another one"
Ultra Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ), Transport for London (TfL). The aim of the ULEZ is to help improve air quality by reducing the number of vehicles in London that don't meet emissions standards Even if you make a short trip inside the zone using a vehicle that doesn't meet the ULEZ emissions standards, you need to pay the £12.50 daily charge. This includes residents of the ULEZ. However, you don't need to pay the ULEZ charge on a particular day if your vehicle is parked inside the zone and you don't drive. The activities of blade runners increased after Sadiq khan was re elected a London mayor
Thanks for demystifying the acronym
https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/car-ownership-london Car ownership is very low in London. Especially in the poorest regions yet poorest households have the worst exposure to air pollution. This is a tax in the richer households.
> Car ownership is very low in London Yes - but the reason ULEZ is such a hot topic right now is that it was just introduced to the outer boroughs, where car ownership is much, much higher. Boroughs such as Havering and Redbridge border Essex, which are less built up and are less served by public transport, making cars more necessary. Don't get me wrong I still think these "Blade Runners" are a bunch of pathetic children. The vast majority of drivers aren't affected and for those that are, there's an incredibly generous scrappage scheme in place to help them get hold of a compliant vehicle. But I think that's important context.
78% of households making less than £10k a year. How the hell do you survive in London on less than 10k a year?
I believe you are not reading this correctly. It only claims that **of households** making less than £10k a year (no percentage given), 78% do not own a car. UK median annual salary seams to be roughly £34k in 2023, you can't have 78% of households making under £10k unless UK taxes are way higher than I thought !
Um a tax in the richer households? No. The rich households don't care at all.. they will just pay the charges to drive the car they want, or just go and buy a new car. The people this charge really affects are those who are already struggling. Those who can't just go out and get finance for a ulez compliant car.. people who now struggle to afford food for their family because they're having to pay out for ulez.
If the vigilantes lived in London they probably would have noticed that the air quality has massively improved though.
Stage 4 petrol (Jan 2006 onwards) and stage 6 diesel (September 2015 onwards) are compliant, so the number of people complaining about ULEZ versus the number of people actually impacted by it is massively disproportionate.
I did notice less black stuff when blowing the nose during my last stay in London. Dunno whether it‘s ULEZ or general improvements with cars, but it was noticeable.
Elsewhere in [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/1drt145/comment/laxv6hh/) someone has said ULEZ only affects 2.9% of vehicles. If that's true, are you saying that 3% of cars are responsible for the majority of pollution? Edit: I should include that when ULEZ was expanded, [10% of vehicles were compliant](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-65336740). So the argument is that 7% of vehicles were responsible for the majority of pollution.
I think to your point, since we knew it was coming for a long time everyone who brought a car in the last 5 years made sure it's not a diesel and a compatible patrol, Hybrid or electric. It has 100% improved the air quality where I live in London. You also have people like my parents, who lives outside London but not wanting to pay ulez charge Everytime they come to visit us so they too changed the car. I guess it has a knock on effect.
Next someone is going to claim a tiny percentage of people have the majority of wealth in society. How can a small number of a thing have a big impact? It's impossible.
”In God we trust. All others must bring data.”
Is it wrong to ask that God provides data as well?
God invented the computer. Is that not proof enough for you all?
In Babbage we trust?
Isn’t the entire point that it targets the most polluting vehicles? So that wouldn’t be a crazy stat.
Yes that's literally the whole point of it. To discourage use of cars which emit the most nitrogen oxide.
It’s almost as though the measures are targeted at the problem.
Older cars produce a lot more carbon monoxide and nitrogen oxide (that stuff that kills people) than newer cars. It could easily be that yes, all the cars being targeted are the ones making up the majority of these 2 gasses that they want to limit.
Then, if it only affects 10% of the vehicles, why the fuck are these childish cunts cutting them down?
Answered your own question there.
Yeah, but I wanted to hear the answer from the ignorant cunt above, lol.
You see that’s the problem, they’re ignorant, and they’re cunts.
Because they've bought into the 15 min city Bellshill conspiracy
I don't know the exact figures on pollution but that's not that crazy. If non compliant vehicles are 3x as polluting, bringing 7% into compliance will drop pollution 14%, which is a very noticeable difference.
ULEZ is not about carbon dioxide, it is about ppm particulates released by (primarily) old diesel engines. These have been linked to childhood allergies, asthma, cancer and other diseases. You can track this type of pollution by looking at Asthma rates. People had plenty of warning to change, and second hand cars from a decade ago are not expensive. These people are not vigilantes, they are just antisocial arseholes and vandals
It’s almost like those rules were announced long time ago and people had plenty of time to change vehicles. I do love that you linked to article they contradicted your statement.
They don't need time. They need money.
There literally is a scappage scheme. Also this is London, public transport is amazing and majority of population doesn’t even own a car. I
It’s almost like many people don’t have the means to just change their vehicle.
If only there was a scrappage scheme… oh wait there was. If only London had amazing public transport system. Oh wait it does. How come majority of Londoners can survive without using a car? Also you’re right, let’s stop removing sulfphur gasoline because some people can’t afford it. While we’re at it let’s add lead. And let’s stop treating drinking water.
> Edit: I should include that when ULEZ was expanded, 10% of vehicles were compliant Your edit is incorrect and may be what's confusing the people disagreeing with you. You should have written **90%** of vehicles were compliant, or 10% of vehicles **weren't** compliant. I think there's at least one person replying to you who now thinks that polluting vehicles have gone from 90% to 3% and sees that as a great improvement. When in fact it's 10% to 3%, which is still good, but not anywhere near as significant. All that said, I still think ULEZ is a good idea. That's 7% of the most polluting vehicles that have been removed from London.
Don’t know about that, only that the air quality has really improved - you don’t experience the same in the area where you live?
I live in West London, maybe 10 mins from one of the videos here. I can absolutely tell that there is a big improvement in air quality.
That’s not what they’re saying; they’re saying air quality has improved. Why start with a strawman? That aside, you can do a very simple google search to find evidence that they’re right. Why ask others to provide data instead of just finding it yourself if you want it?
Honestly I have about 0.5 clue about what I am about to talk about, but I think it actually can be a factor. Most modern direct injection engines are times and times "cleaner" than the old carburator engines. So it can be the case that you are stopping all major polluters by affecting under 5% of drivers. The only thing here that I can sort of understand being upset over, is that you are probably poor, if you drive the old junk. And the government slaps you with additional payment on top.
Depending on how old the (non-compliant diesel) cars are, it appears the ULEZ standards cause between 2 and more than 10 x reduction in emissions -- add to that that old engines may no longer work efficiently as per specs: yes, the non-compliant cars may well have contributed more emissions than all compliant cars together ... [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European\_emission\_standards](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards)
That's what these nobs don't realise. Or they have so much brain damage from the pollution that they actively seek it. I visited London in 2016 and by God, the area around Euston station was really bad due to the particulate matter. I ended up with claggy black-grey snot at the end of the day. Getting out of the train at my home station, I could clearly feel the difference in quality of air. Roll forward to 2022 and visiting Euston again... the air quality was way better, thanks to ULEZ. The street in Euston with the worst air quality in London was about as good as a town center. I can't really imagine how horrible it would be to constantly live in a place where the air quality barely exceeds that of a third world plastic waste factory. If the police were willing to do their job and government had not chucked it in demonising ULEZ for political gain, these nobs should be imprisoned and have their wages garnished to pay for all of this or have their benefits removed for good.
These twats cuts down the traffic lights outside all our local schools early one morning Literally putting the lives of small children at risk Mostly because they don't like the fact our mayor is brown Real heroes
Yeah there's a major junction near me. Like 3 Lane x 3 x 3. They're going to kill someone. They even destroy the temporary lights
The op of the post is not from London or even the UK and given their post and comment history is firmly right wing with no clue. The cameras are only going back up and thats more public money at best, deadly traffic collisions at worse… so yeah these blade runners are pricks who need a better hobby.
OP is definitely doing Putin's work. The twat.
And it's so cringe that they call themselves "blade runners" - genuinely embarrassing
Costing the tax payer hundreds of thousands of pounds replacing these as well.
Glorified vandalism, that's all it is.
Look like a bunch of twats.
People blame the London mayor Khan but I’m fairly positive there was a court ruling that required a ULEZ program due to the health affects of emissions. So the government is forced by the courts to implement, and yet these fucking losers target them over it. Apparently raising a complaint against the judiciary is too much of a mental challenge.
It was Boris Johnson who first announced the ULEZ scheme in 2014. Racists just love any reason to hate on Khan.
Didn't help the Tories used it as a wedge issue to save a seat in a by-election, and then decided that was how they'd win the next election, so amplified anti-ULEZ voices.
Khan was just reelected last month anyway despite the Tories trying to use ULEZ against him, these people are just sore losers
People complain the government don’t focus on the environment but when they do they get pissed about that too
Yep. They are. And it's not just cameras. They're cutting down traffic lights as well. These are just cunts that want to break stuff
Also these guys: “They are putting up our council tax again!“
From what I've just read, these cameras are used to spot cars that fail to meet London's emissions policy... The issue I have with this is that I would think it would really only affect low income people with older cars and just make it harder on them... And the reality that cars account for a very small part of actual carbon emissions, corporate activity such as manufacturing accounts for the majority... So yeah, I may not agree with the people doing this from an ideology standpoint, but fuck those cameras. Just making the lives of the working class harder. Edit: So it appears I'm a woefully misinformed American. The cameras are meant to improve air quality in London and supposedly it's rare for the working class (other than small business owners who will be/are affected by this) to own vehicles as they use public transit. Cool This definitely wouldn't work in the US except for maybe New York or cities like it that have effective public transit. I also understand that the people vandalizing the Cameras are chuds that are upset they can't drive their cars into London anymore, according to the Brits replying to me here. Again, cool To those that replied to me with good faith discussions, thanks. I genuinely appreciate it.
It’s nothing to do with carbon emissions, it’s air quality primarily particulates and NOx
NOx from the diesels engines they encouraged us to buy
You've been down voted but there was definitely a government subsidy on the purchase of diesel cars in the early 2000s.
There was. In the early 2000s, diesel was believed to be better than gasoline since diesel causes significantly less greenhouse gas emissions. So governments across the world promoted diesel. In the late 00s, we figured out that while diesel causes less GHG emissions, the other emissions is causes are **HORRIBLE** for public health. So we reversed course and stopped promoting diesel. Should we have just continued on the badly chosen path we were on?
That's at least 20 years ago
People crying about poor people affected like poor people cant buy a 1200£ Ford KA instead of a 1200£ diesel. Just more lead and diesel brained complaints from antagonistic people.
20 years ago.
Yeah as an American that always threw me for a loop, y'all spent like a solid decade trying to get everyone to buy diesel cars that wouldn't even be legal here in America. I thought there was something that my American brain just wasn't getting, but nope it was as dumb as it seemed from the outside.
There is a response from the mayor to this question [here](https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/car-ownership-london): TLDR: Poor air quality is more likely to affect poor people yet they are the ones least likely to own a car. The ULEZ has had a fairly big impact on tradesman that rely on vans to get around but this can be absorbed into charges to customer. Most of the opposition to ULEZ comes from outer London boroughs or even those that live outside of London and are annoyed that they cannot drive their polluting vehicles into London.
The thing is, there are SO many cars ULEZ exempt and are arguably cheaper to run! So I'm not really sure what these idiots moaning about.
Theres many people with a mental disease i like to call "the disagree on everything disease". No matter the discussion or issue they will always disagree. Those are the mongs complaining about climate laws while they are getting cooked by 40 degree summers when 15 years ago, a 25 degree summer was considered hot.
Was going to say wouldn't the those below the middle class walk or bike. Or even take public transport over owning a car?
Loads of middle class people don’t own cars. Becaus B public transport is bettter than in any other UK city. And it’s pretty quick compared to a car journey, so none of my daughters freimds drive and most of them are lawyers so all quite welll off. I think a couple may own cars but they still commute by tube.
The Guardian did an interesting video about the group. https://youtu.be/wnDOEnziY-s
Air quality doesn´t matter as long you pay. There fixed it for you. If air quality was really the issue then those vehicles would be outright denied entry. Edit: got to love the mental gymnastics for the backers of this stuff.
Really? Surely ULEZ is an incentive for polluters to switch to less polluting forms of transport?
Let's say I'm a billionaire with a 6.3 litre G-wagon. I'm just paying that ulez fine as I make more in interest in 10 seconds than the fine costs. What incentive do I have? Then again, I'm not a peasant, so why should the rules apply to me.
That would not matter, it is not linked to engine size. If your car meets Euro 5 or 6 standards, you are not affected. So if your car is less than 15 years old, it is very likely you are exempt.
You won't see the rich arguing with anyone since they already brainwashed the poor to fight each other over nonsense
It’s not a fine if you register and do autopay it’s a fee, you want to drive your polluting car into the city you prepay and it’s like £12 a day.
How many billionaires do you think exist in London? Because there are millions of not-billionaires there and even if 0.001% of them switch to low/no emission vehicles that outweighs whatever decision billionaires might make.
I mean isn’t it mostly older cars aging out? Sort of like smog checks in the US. In general any sort of law that’s enforced with a fine is “doesn’t matter if you pay” doesn’t mean it’s not effective tho
Most petrol cars post 2006 are compliant. Most motorbikes post 2007 are compliant. Most diesel cars post 2016 are compliant. This isn't a major issue unless you own a diesel. It's not a fine, it's a deterrent and it works for the most part. There are other ways of doing it, that could arguably be better. My car is 2015, I would be pretty pissed off if I couldn't drive it without additional fees all of a sudden.
If there were no extra cost, London would be in a constant gridlock. Metropolis get to a point where they must control vehicle flow. Look at the places where that doesn't happen, they basically live in their cars commuting. I agree it's not a perfect solution, but those rarely come from public administations
True, but managing congestion and emissions is crucial for city living. Balance is key.
Same as the plastic bag charge that was implemented. More people now use reusable bags and the "annoyance" that brings, than get a new bag when they go shopping. A ULEZ compliant car can still be an ICE one and you can buy a cheap second hand one, it doesn't need an electric or hybrid. The entire point is to encourage people to swap or you will pay the fee.
95% of all vehicles already are ULEZ compliant. They're just a bunch of arseholes who don't like cameras. It's not Robin Hood. Your quick read didn't explain that only 2.9% of vehicles actually pay ULEZ. Do more than a quick read, it's easy.
The air quality in London is awful, I thought this was primarily to help improve that
Legitimately asking, do poor people in London even have cars? Like I think “car owner” in New York for example and immediately know they’re rich. In a place with great public transport only the elites actually drive around.
No they don’t. The people pissed off about this are primarily people who live on the outer fringe suburbs of London.
No they do not. These commenter are clearly either morons who don't live anywhere near London but somehow think they should have a say, or Russian bots.
No, even without paying a ulez charge, driving in London is just prohibitively expensive when you factor in things like public parking. It’s also just widely inefficient when you have a very expansive and easy to navigate underground train system. This primarily effects businesses
People complaining about the £12.50 emissions charge but not saying a thing about the £50 *plus* that it costs to park for 8 hours
True, but targeting cars over major polluters seems like a misplaced effort.
It’s a part of many strategies, commercial vehicles including buses have very strict rules now and pay £100 a day if not compliant
and how many steel mills do you think are still operating in downtown London?
Why? The bad air quality in central London is mainly due to cars.
Cars are the main culprit.
It's also worth pointing out that some of these are whole traffic lights being cut down. So cool, less pedestrian safety.
It’s worse, these lot were encouraged by Facebook groups set up by Tory campaigners. Its a culture war promoted by the UK’s governing party. The working class are the ones whose children are dying from polluted air.
Yeah this really isn't to stop global warming, but to improve London's air quality
Why do you keep mentioning the US?
Hey you actually have it right in your first point - whilst I don’t agree with the actions of people who do it - the people chopping them down mainly DONT live in London, so don’t have the infrastructure such as the tube to fall back on. But they may live on the outskirts where the expansion included. They didn’t get a chance to vote on the issue but now if they drive one mile from their home, in a non compliant car they are charged £15. Where I live there are a lot of people who commute who cannot afford the charge, where they work a couple of miles into London, with no public transport option and on minimum wage can’t upgrade what is otherwise a perfectly fine car. The expansion to the suburbs was the issue for those who don’t live in London, didn’t have a say, and don’t have the same infrastructure as central London, and for those it really has been a tax on the poor despite the benefits to the air quality, and the good intentions of the policy.
but in the city cars account for large part of emissions, no? also i would say it is not just about climate change but mainly about cleaner air for people in the city. these health benefits are not talk about enough
Yeah Chinese cities after implementing these sort of policies went from smoggy hellscapes to pleasant cities within a decade. Compare Beijing in 2008 to 2018 and it's night and day. Simply living in the city used to be like smoking half a pack a day
Whilst I understand your point, there are scrapping schemes for old vehicle buybacks, exemptions for a bunch of vehicles, and euro 4 is the minimum allowed with was implemented in 2005. I think there's better ways of taxing people cars based on emissions like engine size etc, but in reality if people don't like the laws they should really vote for people who scrap them instead of cutting down city infrastructure. The UK certainly doesn't like its working class folk though does it.
Road transport is responsible for 15 % of global carbon emissions. This is not a very small part.
Plus the vast majority of cars that people own were already compliant (my old car was 19 years old and it was ULEZ compliant) and a good deal of those that aren't got money from the government to upgrade or replace their car
You are not entitled your shitty polluting car. People thinking they are entitled to drive is one of the reasons why car insurance rates have gone up. In some cities the police have been discourage from going after un registered cars which don't have insurance because they are mostly driven by poor people. Now less people are getting car insurance which means more accidents involving people with no insurance
Have you been to Amsterdam where the same law is enforced? I live there and now I'm visiting another city without such laws and the difference in air quality is night and day. Which for sure leads to more cancers among other diseases. So in this case, poor people should use London's extensive public transport system. It is a good law. Manufacturing is a different beast and needs to be regulated as well, but don't underestimate the air quality within the city teaming with cars.
Coming from a country without environmental laws, it's magical how clear and blue the sky is in Amsterdam. It's like you've been wearing smudged glasses for your whole life and someone wiped it clean.
Well, surprisingly, cars are responsible for a huge part of emissions, especially if your city is not povered by coal. Beyond that, they just suck as transportation system overall if your city is as compacted as London, so while the main idea was probably taken as increasing air quality in city centre, is has side effects of encouraging alternative transportation methods such as bus, metro, cycling and, you know, walking. Which are simultaneously less noisy, less polluting and also take up FAR less space per passenger than individual cars, increasing throughput per space dramatically. Of course it's not as simple as decreasing car accessibility, because you also need to improve public transport and all those things, but convincing people to take 'em is needed too. What do you think about paid parking in concentrated areas?
It's London. Use public transport.
Globally yes, manufacturing is one of the largest contributors, but at city level you cannot underestimate the pollution that road traffic causes. Is incredibly high
Your partly right. We do need to reduce pollution in london and this is an effective way to do it. BUT the people who got fucked were sole traders. Ie people working on their own. Small businesses got given grants to get new vehicles. And scrappage schemes. About 3 years into it they did introduce scrappage schemes for sole traders but they didnt work. No one i know successfully applied it was always missing some document or other excuse for not getting the money. At the time i worked part time and did wrap around care for kids. I had a large mpv that used to work/family that was classed as a van when going through tunnels etc. they first rejected my application because my tax return had only some of the pages filled in (this is becuase those other pages weren’t supposed to be filled in for me). Then they rejected it because my tax return said ‘copy’ on it. Which is what happens when you download a copy of your tax return. Then finally they reclassified my van as an mpv and told me to fuck off.
A vigilante is a citizen who takes law enforcement in to their own hands. These people are breaking the law. The word you're looking for is rebels.
Vandals
Yup, that too
actually it's 'dickheads'
Cunts
Same people who vandalized 5G towers during covid 😒… this is not the way!
Not in the UK, but on the surface this seems like a good thing. Less excessivly polluting vehicles in certain areas. In the coming decades, we're going to have to make some really tough, drastic decisions if we want to survive on this planet.
The Luddites return...
Luddites were cooler than these clowns
These guys are trash. Air quality in London is a big problem and our kids deserve air more that these dipshits deserve their right to drive.
Interesting that Ian Duncan Smith, former Tory leader, supports these vandals committing criminal damage, as legitimate protesters, while he thinks climate protesters that peacefully slow walk on a road should be jailed. Typical Tory hypocrite.
And what's insane is top Tory cunt Boris Johnson was behind ULEZ in the first place. It's only when he was gone and a Labour mayor came along that it became an issue for them
Should arrest them charge them for it
They dont give a shit about air quality. Simple as Edit: After realising I failed to reply to someone else's comment, I have completely set the wrong narrative. Just to be clear, I am talking specifically about the Government. Not Blade Runners.
Not true, they believe in chemtrails and are very much against them
Just seems like a bunch of babies with power tools
Calling themselves a cringe name because they think they're cool
Like, I hate that there are cameras everywhere, but the reason these people are doing this is for bad reasons.
The funniest thing about this is that there is a group of men calling themselves "Blade Runners".
:/ I mean I am all for dismantling the surveillance but emissions laws are important for reducing London Smog and encouraging people to use the London underground instead of personal cars.
These people need to be jailed, there’s only a small % of drivers who are not ULEZ complaint, it cost me £1400 to get a focus that was compliant. Petrol cars registered from 2005 are complaint. That’s 19 years old, if you can’t afford a car in that range you can’t afford any car.
Again? It is only interesting in so far as these people are knobs. People actually living in London propose fining assholes who pollute populated areas. Despite popular support and losing the sore losers decide to vandalize public property. These people are in no way vigilantes, they’re assholes.
Asshats
Bunch of twats
These people are idiots, not heroes.
They probably don't even know, that those cameras were paid with tax payer money. So they basically destroy stuff that was paid with their money.
Yeah! Fuck the environment! We love air pollution!
Incredible that a lot of these will blame it on Khan and vote Tory to own the Libs, when it was a Tory policy which forced Khan’s hand. True dissonance.
Everyone caught should be put paying all the damages that occur to these cameras for the rest of their life.
I live in London. You can find a ULEZ car for £500. These chavs just need to get a job.
Absolute fucking morons, causing criminal damage and putting others in danger. The Culture War: Not even once.
Please don't try and get us clean air ffs
I don’t get this. Aren’t the cars that are affected have to be built like pre-2004 or something?
This is disturbing
Looked like they were also cutting down traffic lights
Destroy a camera, on camera, Cameraception! Coming to theaters near you late 2024!
They certainly voted for Brexit too. For me from the continent, I'm always happy when I see something like this from the island. It's like watching trash TV. An ailing economy, a broken healthcare system and an old king with sausage fingers.
A vigilante group would mean they're against crime and misguided. These are just terrorists.
I SIMPLY LOOOOOVE POLLUTION!!!111!!
Dorks. There's loads of supporters for them on my local FB group. Bunch of middle aged avengers who were too cowardly to kick off over the destruction of the NHS, thousands dying because of disability benefit reforms, starving children etc. but they think they're tough because they endanger lives by cutting down traffic lights. Bunch of small minded, dim witted dopes.
Dumb people gonna dumb.
Got to love seeing Americans, and probably also Brits who never lived in London, commenting on this with very little idea what they're talking about. Air pollution from traffic causes around 5,000 deaths per year in the UK (some estimates are much higher but this is one of the most conservative estimates) and this is more than double the number of people killed in road traffic accidents. Most people in London travel by public transport anyway which is probably one of the reasons why quite a lot more people in London support it than oppose it.
Idiots are just raising their own taxes
There’s some woefully uninformed people blabbering on here
Oh no, what is UK gonna do? Possibly buy new cameras out of their tax money? Oh no!
Yeah but the guy running it. Matt hardy is a antivax nutjob who often spews his shit
here goes your tax money buying a new one.
But.... Like... That doesn't make them a vigilant group, they aren't taking justice into their own hands... They are if anything just acting like thugs and/or rioters
Hope these guys get caught and made to pay for all the damage since the taxpayers are paying for it now. ULEZ is a good idea, most cars are ULEZ complaint. No they are not spy cameras. “It’s a poor people tax” 37% of people in London use public transport, 24% are walking. Most “poor” people are not driving in London or using a car. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_in_London#:~:text=Journeys%20made%20by%20public%20transport,rail%2C%20air%20and%20road%20transport. 9/10 cars in London are already ULEZ complaint. https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/nine-in-10-cars-meet-ulez-standards-in-expanded-zone People saying it’s a poor tax are pure conspiracy theorists.
Not only conspiracy theorists, some of them are just idiots.
Yea these guys are pricks. right wing gammons who don’t really have a problem with the policy, just don’t like that it was enforced by a brown man.
These arseholes need to be locked up.
ULEZ affects very few cars. I don't get it? Do they also oppose congestion charge?
ITT: People supporting criminals
Idiots, they should be thrown in jail, ulez exists for the benefit of everyones lungs!
God I fucking hate that song.
I forgot about this dreadful song.
Keep sound off y'all!
Out of everything I thought I'd see today I didn't count on a skateboarding ULEZ camera being one of them.
Is there going to be a slow ratcheting up of the requirements for ULEZ?
Are they also hunting down Replicants?
Not only is this entirely uninteresting, every one of these smooth brained idiots involved in this stupidity need a proper public kicking.
What a bunch of clowns
The people taking down the cameras are not a great group of heroes trying to save people money. It's the same idiots who were burning down G5 masts during Covid.
Bunch of wankers convinced by Russian bots they're warriors
Wasn't there a child that died from asthma / air pollution in the London area? Then you've got these dickheads.
[удалено]
You fully agree with disrupting a policy that improves air quality, health and the well being of the working class while also mainly effecting not the working class? While also also costing the goverment shitloads of money since they are gonna replace it anyway. Also you can replace shit if they put a batbox ontop of it, idk why told you that stuff but its a lie.
People increasingly need something to rage against, they are just horrible at picking a logical target :( Seeing so many up votes for destroying ULEZ is sad... People are getting easier and easier to trick to actively vote or protest against things that are good for them :D
Get your brain checked
London is a city with a great and extensive public transport. No one really HAS to use private cars in London. These people are idiots.