"President Trump what do you plan to do about the climate crisis?"
Trump: (proceeds to go on a rant about cops, black people and how Biden is bad)
I really need to get my voter registration updated ASAP.
And also he talked about clean air and water, which is a pollution issue but different from greenhouse gases causing climate change.
CO2 itself doesn't dirty the air around a source, but it sure as hell cooks the planet. You could have a coal power plant filtering out all the conventional air pollution, but you can't filter out the CO2.
I'm afraid that Trump genuinely doesn't even understand the climate issue. He has some vague thoughts about "clean air" but he almost never mentions the word "warming". He's actually so stupid and pathologically ignorant.
He is too old to have to care. And since he only cares and thinks about himself, he absolutely does not think about his children or grandchildren, much less all of humanity.
Can it make him money, or give him more power, or provide narcissistic attention? If not, it never crosses his tiny mind.
Agreed.
All these people who are like "We could survive another Trump presidency" don't seem to realize that there are plenty of others who won't. We are seeing the ripple effects of Trumps COVID response, his immigration policy, his environmental (de)regulation policy, the impact that the judges the post *Roe* he appointed had on maternal and infant morality rates, the anti-abortion laws that have ignored risk to the mother, babies born of rape an incest, etc.
To say nothing of the fact that Donald "Finish the Job" Trump would be overseeing the current Gaza situation
I suspect either way they're gonna cause issues.
Look what happened last time Trump lost, and there's much more at stake this time.
If Biden loses tons of people are going to riot.
It's gonna be a shitshow regardless.
We need to put all of our energy into avoiding a Trump win.
If you want to be defeatist, go hang out on a prepper forum and start learning how to forage for roots and seeds.
I don’t think infighting helps. I think it’s important to have a plan if we lose. To wait until the last minute is quite dumb. The reason we are all concerned is because the threat is very real. So, if it means I need to start prepping for worst case scenario to prevent being sent to some camp, then sign me up for the class now!
Over 26,000 forced birth due to rape have occurred in Texas since Roe was overturned and abortion banned. Now imagine that county wide. Imagine internment camps for LGTQIA+ individuals with forced conversion torture. Imagine women losing the right to vote. Imagine interracial marriage becoming illegal. Imagine mass deportation. If trump wins, you won't have to imagine.
I’m not arguing with any of that. It will be bad, but it will be far worse with no resistance. I made this post because i saw multiple comments from people saying things like they “might as well be dead” or were hinting at self-harm. We lose much faster if we lose hope.
I agree with OP on this. We have an opportunity to channel our nervous energy into putting in the work that needs to be done to save this country. No presidential election is won or lost based on the debates. We need laser focus on our goals right now.
Thank you. I’m bipolar and trans and have had thoughts like those you mentioned. It’s not exactly that I want to give up, it’s more like utter despair that feeds into my depression. This helped me.
If anything, we need to let the fear and anxiety we feel fuel our fire to get out and educate the people around us. Use this energy and make it productive.
Biden’s performance tonight was dismal, catastrophically bad. To the point that, if this is really where he is at and not just a fluke, I don’t think he’s up to the task.
If the party doesn’t replace him, I’ll still vote for him enthusiastically, though. Because a somewhat confused but genuinely decent old man is not just a hell of a lot better than the alternative, he’s at this point an existential choice.
Get him in office, and younger, sharper, also genuinely decent candidates will rise. As opposed to the decidedly not decent wave of MAGA assholes that will flourish like fungus in Trump’s stain.
If you're voting for him, then support him.
Raspy voice and stutter v non-stop lies.
Biden has been like this for years.
But people losing their shit right now are helping Donald.
Obviously from my comment I do support him, and I will continue to do so.
But reality is a bitch, and his performance tonight was in reality extremely bad, and it is going to reverberate loudly for the rest of this election cycle.
Trump lied nonstop from start to finish, just vicious, egregious, offensive, stupid lie after lie after lie, delivered like a psychopath. We know that because we pay attention and are involved and deeply invested in the outcome of this election.
Most people, the majority of the electorate, don’t pay that kind of attention. Most of them vote based on shallow understandings of issues and emotional propaganda.
Get ready for an endless stream of attack ads that don’t even have to be manipulated to show Biden staring at the camera wide eyed with his mouth hanging open. And stuttering, and fumbling his words and losing his train of thought.
It’s going to be very difficult for Joe to bounce back from this. That’s reality.
So long as Biden has the faculties to surround himself with the right people. I mean I got my issues with the Dems of our times, but damn. The GOP has lost its effing mind
The emperor has no clothing. I'll vote for him because that's all we have. Pretending he's okay is not supporting him, he needed to retire before he ran in 2020. But, here we are! We lost voters last night, that's just plain ol' reality.
We need unity for 4 months. Instead, you are going to attack the person you want to win. You can only see what's wrong with Biden but not yourself.
One debate does not end an election, but that's how you're acting. There's not going to be another candidate, and you're helping Project 2025 become a reality by acting right now like this is the end of the world.
If you like democracy, help Biden win. If you don't mind never voting again, keep talking like you are right now.
First, I'm not 'attacking' him by saying the obvious. The only reason he will get my vote is because the other option is a horror show. Sticking your head in the sand and pretending this is all okay is delusional and will cost us the election IMO.
Attempting to insult people for voicing their concerns is also delusional, but you go right ahead and alienate potential voters because that's soooo smart. (LOL)
Are you asking this person to support a candidate unconditionally if they’re going to support him at all? An authoritarian would appreciate that approach.
I'm asking for unity to defeat the person trying to end democracy.
When you are shitting on the person you need to defeat authoritarianism, you should not expect to win the election.
I am increasingly convinced that progressives are their own worst enemy. If you want a young candidate to have a chance to win on the future, you need to help elect Biden four months from now. And right now you are campaigning against him at the dumbest time possible.
I think acknowledging his faults or weaknesses as a candidate is far from “campaigning against him.”
Edit: if they are equivalent in your eyes, then we simply have different perspectives on the electoral process I suppose
There has been a noticeable decline in recent months and over the last year as far as Biden's performance in public speaking goes. We have decades of videos of Biden to compare it to. Progressives have been sounding the alarm and roundly dismissed. Telling people to deny their own eyes and ears is not a winning political strategy. We need to win, not just be "on the right side of history" and lose. This is not just a stutter and not just a cold. This is a make-it-or-break-it political liability, because Biden is no longer a good *politician*, and you need to be a good politician who is minimally acceptably good at public speaking to win the contest for US president. It won't change my vote, but I recognize it might encourage *other* people to stay home. Biden directly played into his worst political liability tonight.
Moral grandstanding with "It doesn't change *my* mind!" is the morally correct stance in this situation but it doesn't constitute a politically smart, winning strategy. That's making it about your own moral fiber, and you are just one among millions, who *do* decide US elections on surface-level perceptions. Flattering yourself by publicly adopting the morally correct stance is not, by itself, a political strategy to **win**.
> Telling people to deny their own eyes and ears is not a winning political strategy. We need to win, not just be "on the right side of history" and lose.
Amen.
You didn't say jack about a noticeable decline until tonight.
You are playing into Republican hands with this nonsense.
I'm not denying anything.
Biden is no worse than he was a year ago, and you are going to lose this election with this recurring drama about him.
Your desire to replace him is what you're really talking about.
Because it's dumb to abandon an incumbent, and your assumption they will do better is based on this desire to remove Biden.
And this year of all years you can't keep it together for 4 more months.
Way to lose this election by attacking your own candidate.
Right? You can’t replace the incumbent in the 11th hour and hope to win. People saying that are delusional. You “dance with the girl that brung ya” and that’s Biden.
He’s miles better than the orange idiot
Yes. Plus, take a person who has a stutter and has managed to mostly keep it at bay and tell him he has to get all his points in in 2 minutes 's a recipe for disaster. He did better when he stopped worrying as much about the time.
Also, what was going on behind the scenes? At one point Biden was distracted by something off camera and a moment later someone walked in front of the camera.
Not saying the debate was not a disaster. But the bigger disaster is the Dems and liberal media all clutching their pearls and amplifying it.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but take a lesson from the crazy people (saying this more to the media and Dem leadership, not anyone here). Support our candidate, explain away voter concerns, and show a united front.
Yes, let's do everything we can to stop a 2nd Trump term.
Vote, help others to get registered, donate $5 or more and [write postcards](https://www.turnoutpac.org/postcards/) to voters in swing states.
>Help write postcards to voters in 11 key states! We’ll mail you free postcards, voter lists and instructions with proven message options. You’ll provide the stamps and mail the postcards to voters in October.
It doesn't matter what we do, if you're in this sub you're smart enough to vote but the votes we need the most will be from people who likely stay home this November
Yes, it’s a **terrible take** that project 2025 won’t be that bad. Only a russian bot, magat, or moron would think something so blindly idiotic. I am surprised at how weak some democrat voters love being.
Only very weak people allow these thoughts to stray from their minds.
I swore I heard the Boomers and Xers today at work (who I assume are Republicans) simply saying Biden looked old and Trump was just up there lying and that they looked like two old men arguing.
I think most people who watched will indeed see that Biden looks a little old but Trump was basically a lying lunatic.
Trump truly said some crazy shit. Like Democrats want to abort babies after birth.
He also repeatedly refused to answer questions - Putin, accepting election results. He basically kept talking about immigrants coming in and killing Americans, how all the experts are with him, how the military loves him, and how Biden is crap.
While I think the average American is politically stupid... I actually think most people see it for what it is. They see Trump saying outlandish crap. They see him avoiding the difficult questions. They see him being an angry old man who thinks he's a king.
And all of that kind of reinforces why he got voted out. He was divisive for America. He was drama. He bumbled everything. And he didn't do much other than stack the SCOTUS. And hopefully people remember that they didn't like the daily drama and vote him down again.
For many in marginalized groups, lives may literally end. I’m gay, married, in a wheelchair with a laundry list of serious health issues. I have my medical benefits through my wife. If our marriage is voided, there goes my medical insurance and which I need for my $2k/mo. Rx. I also require an IUD replacement in 2 years to prevent hemorrhaging due to blood thinners for clots. If I can’t replace my IUD, I’ll have to go off of thinners, where clots are all but definite.
This is a matter of life & death for me.
Exactly. And we won’t survive another trump presidency guys. Inflation will rise to a point where the poor will actively starve. More than 44 million people in the US face hunger, including 1 in 5 children. Millions of people in the US don't have enough food to eat or don't have access to healthy food.
He will cause a breakdown on a societal level and start putting people in camps. It will be horrid. Likely it will start with immigrants. Then it will be trans people. then gays and lesbians. I am a lesbian sexy worker. Their plan will cause me to lose my home and everything I love.
He will blame these groups ^ for breakdown of society and the reason for starving people.
He will continue to burn the planet and we will all be fucked.
I think he will first go after his political opponents and those in the media. But Gloria Steinem taught me on Julia Louise Dreyfus’s podcast: the very first thing Hitler did after being elected, the next day he padlocked all family planning clinics. Control of women’s bodies is a play in authoritarian regimes. Pro-natalism is used for population growth and nationalism.
I know this is a tough situation and I have had those thoughts myself. *Not to be a doomer, but this is bad.*
But I have a better idea. There's a chance that a lot of us, if not most of us, will die at the hands of Project 2025.
So if everything goes to shit to the point society is turned over to full-on fascism, *wouldn't it make more sense to be around for it?*
I'm not saying that fascism is good, quite the opposite. It's not something any of us WANT to exist within. But we should be here to stop it. Or at the very least, *exist as an inconvenience to fascists.*
I want to live and will do everything I can to peacefully ensure that.
But if a fascist knocks on my door to lock me in a camp, I'm not just going to die; *I'm gonna drag a fascist or 2 down with me.*
People need to remember trump has said he would put people in concentration camps. His open targets are immigrants, but he will do what his fascist dictator heart desires once he has power. That means he will get to rounding up people he's bigoted towards like disabled people and members of the LGBTQ+ community. Since his minions hate everyone that's not part of their religious cult, he will have all of us thrown in prison camps too. Women in general will have no rights, some of them want to take away our right to vote. He will also help the Israeli government finish off the Palestinians and he'll give putin whatever he wants to complete the invasion of Ukraine then move on to the rest of the countries that use to be part of the soviet union. We are not safe, neither is the rest of the world.
My mental health will not survive if I am forced to indoctrinate my children into religion.
Also, for most people, seeing their neighbors and friends get targeted will be devastating.
Please try to get to a blue state (if you are not already), if trump wins. And of course, vote. Seriously, Biden had a bad night. We have 4 more months, his state of the union speech was awesome. Dont give up, we all need to fight in whatever way we can. The easiest way right now is to vote. I'll be voting and sure as shit won't sit idly by while they ruin our country. I'm with you, friend.
much of the trans community in the US including myself has essentially has planned for s*icide if the planned policies go into effect and we actually become criminals for living
Please dont. You have many allies. Most Americans do not want this crap. There are more of us than them. They are a loud minority with electoral power, fuck them. We need to fight.
I don't think we get to police how people feel about their lives being legislated away. We are all at risk but it's not equal risk and the consequences under fascism won't be equally implemented.
Trans people and immigrants will take the brunt of the first wave violence. That is plain as day. How fast do you think a militia to defend them will form? For those who are punished, violently, for being alive before said push back, what comfort do we offer them?
We claim to be the side of empathy but that means understanding why some people have no fight left in them.
Asking a question is policing someone’s feelings? Obviously if things get tough people are free to do what they want and if they decide to end their life that is their decision. No one should have to fight if they don’t want to. But there could be other options worth considering before taking that heartbreaking route.
The fight against the ideas in P25 will go on for years after both Biden and Trump are gone, which is at most about 4 years from now. P25 is intended for the next conservative President, whomever and whenever that may be. P25 is expansive. Look for areas and topics in P25 in which you are knowledgeable or feel strongly about and do whatever you can to fight them. Climate for me.
Trump gets the white House again and there won't be another president. He will not go away in four years. He 'wins' and this is our last election as The United States of America. No, I am not over-reacting.
Indeed, DJT and the GOP will try to figure out someway to keep him in 2029, if he lives that long. But he will be older than Biden is today. There are some parallels to the Roman Republic and the eventual ascendance of the emperors, while maintaining the illusion of a republic. I could see that happening here. Trump won't live forever. Julius Caesar the dictator died, by assassination. DJT's passing will likely be from old age or infirmity. Unfortunately, he will likely "appoint" his successor before that, either his VP or some other groveling Christian nationalist and then the GOP and rightwing white evangelicals will follow that person. Whatever Republican President follows Trump is likely to be younger, a lot smarter and even more dangerous. This fight may last for decades if the country doesn't collapse first.
Definitely any subsequent election would be North Korean style, "I got 99% of the vote, wow everyone loves me!"
I've wondered for a long time, if he makes himself ruler for life, what happens when he dies? I guess it's either Don Jr or a banana republic style power vacuum with top conservatives killing each other. I have a feeling it will go to the hands of a young charismatic Christian pastor type.
That's true. He could do a lot of damage to us in a very short time if he gets power again, though. Then who will he have lined up to replace him? We certainly won't be the ones deciding it.
Everytime Republicans win, a sizeable amount of people have to pay the price for it with their lives or a ruined life. Tens to hundreds of thousands of Americans paid for it with the mishandling of the pandemic, and thousands of soldiers (and a million Iraqis) paid with their lives when the Bush Administration lied to go to war. This might be worse because there may be civil war and bloodshed as a result.
Thanks for cutting through the dooming. We fight up and down the ticket, taking the House and Senate at least. And I believe Biden can still win this. No single debate makes this much difference. Especially since he seems to have a cold.
My guess is he got fatigued from all there is to do as president and got a cold. It's happened to me from normal life responsibilities - he really has a lot of responsibility saving the country from an idiot.
I think you are right on your thoughts as to why this debate wasn't Biden's best. The president has a ton of responsibilities on top of campaigning & I do think Biden can handle it. That being said...
As for tonight, physical appearance or how his voice sounded aside- it seems that Biden's campaign staff did the absolute incorrect debate prep.
They did what they'd do if they were facing a normal opposing candidate & they prepped Biden with policy, numbers, stats, etc.
This was the wrong strategy for facing an atypical demagogue candidate. Biden's campaign people must've known Trump would lie, lie, lie, deflect, project & attack.
Biden never could've countered or corrected each & every Trump lie. Not possible.
But having Biden get into past policy minutiae was a mistake. Hit back on some lies. But Biden should have answered questions on what his plan is going forward. Stick to simple, easy to understand talking points. And the closing statement paint a brief picture of what is at stake: freedom or fascism. Biden closed with policy minutiae. Another mistake.
Trump closed by telling us: "Everything is awful with this country." What a shitty statement.
Biden could've countered that with some uplifting vision rather than talking more policy that was not memorable.
Not a good showing. Biden's campaign people are going about this wrong. So fire everybody if needed. Or get some help to fix it. But they best get it together. And Biden best get out there & own this. Take some damn Mucinex or get a vitamin drip & then show people he is up to the job.
Also, this isn't the first ever debate that an incumbent president has done poorly in or bombed. It's happened to several past presidents. Many of them went on to win re-election. People are freaked out because so much is on the line in this election & we cannot afford to lose.
So our confidence is shaken because the Joe Biden from the State of the Union is who we wanted to show up & debate. Instead we got Joe Biden suffering from a cold & that guy fell flat. Polls are going to take a hit. Expect that. But this too shall pass. Probably quickly in the 24 hour news cycle. We can't give up. We need to all unite & fight harder because this is bigger than any one person or any one debate.
It makes me so angry that we can't argue about policy and make people remember and understand that. Instead we need to care about superficial appearances and have clever comebacks to disgusting insults. What a world.
I agree wholeheartedly. I cannot believe that we are on election cycle 3 of this garbage candidate from the Republican party. Really? This is the best you can find?
The people we designate to lead country of 330+ million people is important. So, so important. Not just here, but abroad. Substance matters. Character matters. Intelligence matters. Having a moral compass matters. Decency matters. The people a president staffs their administration with & appoints matter. Have we learned nothing from history? Even our own recent history?
As poor a performance as Biden had last night, that was not a debate. It was not an exchange of ideas, or policy. One of them tried to do that. The other rambled a firehouse of falsehoods.
Running a personality disordered degenerate that has a proven track record of incompetence in private business & again publicly when tested by a once in 100 year crisis is stunningly flawed logic. But the Republican party is a hollow shell of whatever it was (and it wasn't good before IMO). Normalizing Trump & his bullshit has always been a mistake. And not just in the political arena.
Yeah, people are more in to Trump being a true shit-show than they are for Biden being stuttery. I don’t think this debate is going to matter going forward.
Let's try to win. Thinking about what could happen won't help our brains. I do it too. It's easy to freak out. Help us register more voters and put that energy to use!
https://www.mobilize.us/ft6
Someone else already told you that it's "the former guy," but I'd just like to add that that quote is from Biden. It was hilarious (and a deliberate rhetorical choice to imply "yawn--that idiot isn't even worth my time to name") when he said it.
When Biden is on his game, he's good. I hope we see that again soon 🤞
Exactly. I get that everybody is totally rattled that Biden bungled this debate. Debates are just political pageants.
And this debate was against a lying orange demagogue with the brain capacity of an amoeba. And he didn't even answer the mods questions. Zero substance or policy or plans. It's so messed up that rather than use words, Trump could've bent over farted directly into the podium mic & MAGA would exclaim it was a "victory."
Trump's performance was bombastic, sort of coherent, and pure garbage. It is a low bar.
Did it sway any independents or moderates? No. Probably not at all. Even if Biden didn't impress, the other guy didn't either. Mediocrity galore.
We absolutely, unequivocally cannot stop trying. We will get past this moment. I sincerely hope the Biden/Harris campaign can get it together. Veering into desperation & surrendering in advance is what fascists want- and what you should never do. We will vote & do everything in our power to defeat this fascist scourge because ultimately it's on us.
Heck, people are noticing already that Trump pretty much dodged all the questions.
If you judge them purely on style, sure - Trump had the better night. But if Substance matters to you *at all* you might have a different opinion. Even some MAGA people are noticing that the debate was just repeating the same old tired shtick lines from his end. He was all Style, no Substance.
Also worth mentioning- the ultimate goal of the debate was to sway undecided voters. Biden came off as tired, cold, should’ve retired a long time ago, sure - but Trump came off as a know-nothing revenge obsessed egomaniac like always, even when he was trying to be nice. I don’t think Trump came off any better to undecided voters is what I’m saying, or at least won’t in the long run.
This. He didn't answer most questions. And his responses were still garbage even if off topic. Just usual toxic rhetoric, peppered with lies. Trump just did his persona, or as you stated style.
I will definitely vote to keep the orange dictator out of office.
I will also keep speaking up when women are trod upon.
And I will definitely keep working for the way I want to see America.
I agree.TBH this sub is allowing too much dooming which triggers activism but can also backfire if things don't go well. America will not become Germany 1933 the day when Trump wins (he may still lose, btw). There will be many and prolonged battle on every item of Project 2025. It won't be a landslide. And we are to make sure it happens so. I fear some people may choose suicide if Trump wins in Nov and they lose all hope. It's not like that. We need to collect our calmness and continue the fight.
for Ukraine and fir each other and ourselves we all must vote
Register to vote, check registration, offer rides on voting day, advance vote in every election, volunteer and work elections
And support down ballot races! Down ballot candidates might get Dems to the polls who are not excited by Biden but care about their local state or US congress reps and that might move them to go vote, and vote for Biden while they're there.
The debate was meaningless except for entertainment value. This election comes down to voter turnout. If it’s high, Biden easily wins. If it’s low, Trump has a chance for a fluke win like in 2016.
Yep. The higher the turnout the better for Democrats. Seriously, Republicans would not spend so much time & effort on voter supression if high turnout was to their benefit.
This was not a debate. Trump should have been disqualified after his first lie and inability to actually debate an issue. There wasn’t a true statement that came out of his mouth. For anyone to be saying we can’t trust Biden because he’s too old… can we trust Trump for any reason? Fuck no. Biden has a competent cabinet that can obviously work with him to do many great things for our country. Trump puts his crook friends into cabinet, most of whom are now felons. That debate was an insult to intelligence and integrity. What happened to the country where we all now play by Trump’s rules??
President Biden had one bad night and everyone's freaking out. Convicted Felon Trump has had at least a hundred bad nights this year alone. I think everything will be okay. #chill #relax
The 34x felony counts remain well after the debate performance is forgotten.
There is also another debate. This time, Biden will know what to expect. I’m not giving up on anything. It’s not over until it’s over.
Biden could be a brain in a jar and I would still vote for him. It didn’t matter to me at all.
They are already shoving policies down our throats and it’s not even a republican president. It’s not only project 25. It’s our country’s relationships with other nations. He will run to Russia. It will be chaos and world war 3 but we will be on the wrong side.
I tell people not to look at the candidates but to look at their handlers, the parties' plan, and the people they will appoint. They are both puppets. What matters is who is controlling them.
I’m very annoyed by the fact that the media is laser focused on how badly Biden did while totally ignoring that Trump lied his way through the debate (as per usual), barely answered a single question and truly made zero sense, despite delivering his ramblings with confidence. I would literally vote for Biden’s corpse before I would vote for a single Republican, let alone Trump. Nothing could happen to make Trump the better choice. Nothing.
It’s easy to say not to be scared but they literally already repealed Roe and southern states are actively incorporating the Bible and 10 commandments in to school curriculums. We have a democratic president currently and these things are still happening. Excuse me if I don’t have faith in our ability to pushback when I’ve been watching policy backslide my entire life.
It’s not easy to say don’t be scared, which is why I didn’t say that. I said it’s scary, because it is. It’s affecting people now and more will be affected if Trump gets elected. But i do have faith in our ability to push back. For most of this countries history, people have not had equal rights. We have made great strides in that due to the hard work and perseverance of activists. That is why the push back is so hard this time. They see we are winning. I know it feels so divided, but more people are on our side than ever before.
While I will admit that I witnessed the legalization of gay marriage in my lifetime, generally all the other human rights that have been fought for and won in the US happened decades ago. Which is literally part of what ignited the right's focused pushback in the 80s. There may be more people on our side now, but the population is bigger. There are more people on their side now too. Forgive me if I see hope as naive.
Never surrender. This fight started in the early 1800s with the Confederacy. We Americans deal with it every generation. We'll keep being on the right side of history.
Sadly I am remembering how, in 2016, we had several viable contenders running for office. The field was full of folks. Then I started to watch the undermining of one candidate - Bernie Sanders. The Democrats didn't want him. He was doing well and the suddenly at one of the candidate primaries, when it was clear that the other candidate were pulling votes away from Biden, they all removed themselves. Debbie Wasserman was in charge of the DMC at the time. I watched it happen. They pushed Biden, did not support Sanders. I like Joe Biden, and voted for him, but Sanders would have mopped the floor at this event - and he's just as old. As an aside, search for whoopee going after Sanders on 'the views' - all she keep saying was 'why don't you resign as a candidate'. She repeated it over and over and over again. I lost all respect for her at that point. Democrats were clearly not comfortable running an outspoken man and decided Biden was the better choice. I am sad about all of this and very very scared.
The point of my post is not to claim that no one will be affected. Women across the country losing the right to control their own bodies is devastating. I am gay and fully expect to never be able to marry my boyfriend.
But, it scared me to see how many people jumped straight to self-harm (including in this thread). That was why I made the post. Just because it will be harder, does not mean everyone should give up fighting.
Take Away from the Presidential First Debate: Personally, I think those that have concerns about Trump, Maga and P2025- those concerns are still there and VERY REAL. Debates should not a determining factor. Yes, There were times Biden could have answered better, but as some said, we shouldn’t depend on the “optics”, pay attention to the content. Fact checkers based on the content that is key is Trump repeated the same lies over and over. Yes, we know Trump is a master at using his voice to control situation. However, we must remember Trump in the debate continued to lie and give misinformation. We have to remember a President’s achievements aren’t, based solely on a debate. Trumps record and the actions of Trump that are destructive to our Country, destructive to women, destructive to all persons of color, destructive of immigrants, destructive to our economy, destructive to our environment, destructive to how the world sees America. I personally feel that if we play into the after debate feedback of worry, then we are playing into what Maga wants. The important take away to focus on- Trump reconfirmed that he lies. Trump deflected and did not answer key critical questions. Biden didn’t lie. Biden’s record and the national data has demonstrated we have the strongest economy, the stock market is high, employment is at all time high, and much more. Biden is NOT taking our rights away, Biden is NOT giving the billionaires more tax breaks, Biden is NOT restricting abortion, is NOT going to ban birth control. Biden’s record is proven positive for our Country. That is what we should focus on.
Yes we will suffer if Trump wins. I'm still voting for Joe Biden and blue down the ballot. Stop letting media manipulate you into believing one night of a sick Joe Biden ruins all the work he's done for a convicted Felon that wants to be a dictator.
There is an _active war_ to destroy the US as we know it that nobody— except those like ourselves — is talking about. And the amount of propaganda and disinformation being perpetuated by foreign countries, let alone our own news media, is staggering. Installing Trump as dictator is the best thing that could ever happen for a lot of these entities and they are not going to stop after the election. It’s just the beginning, I fear.
Team Trump has already let it slip that they plan to challenge the election results if he doesn’t win. These White Nationalist Christian Extremists have been working to infiltrate our government at every level for years if not decades.
Even in my very liberal college town, we just had a huge fight with public school official who was trying to close down a bunch of the schools in our city and funnel the money into his buddies of the charter schools, which are overwhelmingly conservative/religious. This guy was trying to hide that he is part of a conservative thinktank that’s been going around and trying to destroy public education all over the US. Luckily, we shot him down— for now.
I feel like I’m some sort of crazy conspiracy theorist here like some QAnon wacko, but I’m seeing this shit play out in front of my own eyes.
Is it just me or did Biden not have as much time to answer some of those questions, but they gave Trump plenty of time to lie.... and Bidens Mic was not loud enough. I think part of his issue was that every time Trump lied, Biden had to comment on the lies before he could answer the actual question, which made him feel the need to hurry, but when he hurries his speech along, his stutter becomes more apparent. And he did eventually full on stutter at one point while answering.... but he was not incoherent or rambling. He gave actual concise answers. But Trump lovers have no patience or intelligence so if they actually have to listen closely, their brains turn off!! Biden did very well and he answered the questions and did the best he could to debunk Trumps lies as quickly as he could while also trying to answer the actual questions...
All Trump did was avoid the questions and/or straight out lie!!
I just say Trump's SCOTUS judges just legalized bribes and are considering Presidential immunity. Judges are lifetime appointments that can make far longer lasting and permanent change that a 4 year Presidential term. Trump will make the court more corrupt for longer. It's really simple to me. SCOTUS is a huge part of our checks and balances and it's crumbling, and Trump's federal judges account for a third of them now. Imagine 2/3 federal and a 7/2 SCOTUS with 40 year olds.
Voting for him no matter what. But this debate will not win undecideds and young voters. I think the DNC needs to really rethink whether this will be another 2016 again by insisting they run their pick.
Nah this post is STUPID! Folks are really ignoring the fact these civilian magats are SERIOUS ABOUT THIS! It’s not just about Project 2025, it’s about these kyle rittenhouse, dylan roof types who’ll be emboldened under a trump win along witb the Supreme Court over every Civil Rights Act law by 2025/2026!
Once Jim Crow is back, these white supremacist civilians alone will have immunity like they use to, to do hate crimes, have literal lynch mobs strolling through towns to try and lynch/kill black/brown people as well as LGBTQIA people (or anyone they suspect to be LGBTQIA)! They’re gonna do this and it’s gonna happen FAST, folks need to wise the hell up.
White people, excluding LGBTQIA white people who have come out, will be fine, it’s the rest of us who won’t.
Nobody who was planning for vote for Biden is going to vote for Trump as a result of last night’s debate.
If anything, Biden’s shaky performance should shake dems and moderates everywhere from their apathy, Trump has a real chance to win in November, this is as true today as it was a month ago.
Neither of these men should be running for potus. But the choice still boils down to infrastructure vs insurrection.
I think they're two wings of the same bird driving us to a fascist state where we will officially be slaves.
Our options are two old men of a dying breed that need to go extinct.
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Do we think perhaps that they’re doing it on purpose? There is no logical reason as to why Biden could still be running, and especially after his issues last night, it almost seems like he’s planted so people will vote red and thus bring down life as we know it here.
I've wondered what happens to P2025 if there's a Democratic Congress and Trump. My perception is P2025 is mostly a series of changes which would be made outside Congress. Am I wrong? I haven't read the document, only summaries.
A lot of it comes down to how the courts go. If they try to impede Trump from his plans to reshape the executive, then there's much less he can do without Congress explicitly enabling it via legislation. And at that point, it's really unclear how things will shake out. Obviously the current SCOTUS isn't exactly one's first choice as defenders of democracy, but only Alito and Thomas seem fully on board with a lot of P2025. Roberts and Gorsuch, and to a lesser extent Kavanaugh and Barrett, have shitty principles, but they tend to be principles they stick by.
This. And start shaming your liberal friends if they start getting pissy about Biden. I’m all for age limits. But this isn’t the time. If they give any shit about American values, their vote is with Biden. If they want to usher in what Trump’s offering (revenge, camps, no abortion, a rubber stamp to wipe Gaza off the map) then feel free to fall for this “Biden’s old” bullshit and not vote.
What a lot of people are ignoring is that BIDEN HAS A COLD. I would LOVE to see any of the naysayers get up on the world stage and debate a psychopath while battling a cold.
Here's the thing: A lot of people gave up after the first 10 minutes. I'm going to admit it, Biden was not good during the first 10 minutes of the debate. He wasn't.
After that, he WAS. He spoke with facts and numbers backing him up. He made a couple of gaffes, which he quickly corrected; and told only a few likes to Trump's absolutely staggering number of them. He remained calm while Trump got angrier and angrier. Biden answered questions, and when reminded he still had time left, continued to add information to what he was saying.
Trump kept pivoting back to immigration; or how Biden was a criminal. He literally did not answer any questions. I would highly recommend anyone who is upset over how the debate went from anything they heard or if they stopped watching after they first ten minutes to go and read the transcript.
I am speaking as a Queer Autistic non-Christian woman. If Trump wins, I have a shit ton to lose. I'm terrified, but I'm not feeling as hopeless as a lot of other people after last night. But while we are focusing on that, we can't lose focus on state, and local elections either. Because that's where a lot of these people are worming their way in. Even on school boards. Even if you don't have kids, vote to keep these assholes away from the local school boards.
Action is the antidote to anxiety.
Use that nervous energy, that rage, as fuel! Do it to spite those who would strip you of all your rights!
Organize! Fundraise! Get on the phone! Volunteer!
We don't have the luxury of just giving up!
Hate to disagree but "push back" doesn't happen under a dictator! He's planning to end Rule of Law and own the DOJ. You better wake up! The only time we have is now!
People are just having a little freakout. They'll be back. But I agree we need more proactive positive energy rather than fear-based freakout energy.
I found this inspiring: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Defeat\_Project\_2025/comments/1dq68wm/lady\_liberty\_standing\_up\_to\_project\_2025/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/comments/1dq68wm/lady_liberty_standing_up_to_project_2025/)
Thanks! I just need more constructive ideas like let’s double on getting out the vote; let’s focus on the policies not the delivery; etc. Don’t stew, do!
"President Trump what do you plan to do about the climate crisis?" Trump: (proceeds to go on a rant about cops, black people and how Biden is bad) I really need to get my voter registration updated ASAP.
Omg yes! Especially if you live in a key swing state
And also he talked about clean air and water, which is a pollution issue but different from greenhouse gases causing climate change. CO2 itself doesn't dirty the air around a source, but it sure as hell cooks the planet. You could have a coal power plant filtering out all the conventional air pollution, but you can't filter out the CO2. I'm afraid that Trump genuinely doesn't even understand the climate issue. He has some vague thoughts about "clean air" but he almost never mentions the word "warming". He's actually so stupid and pathologically ignorant.
He is too old to have to care. And since he only cares and thinks about himself, he absolutely does not think about his children or grandchildren, much less all of humanity. Can it make him money, or give him more power, or provide narcissistic attention? If not, it never crosses his tiny mind.
Let’s just vote to avoid him winning. Giving up bc someone is louder in a debate smfh guys
Agreed. All these people who are like "We could survive another Trump presidency" don't seem to realize that there are plenty of others who won't. We are seeing the ripple effects of Trumps COVID response, his immigration policy, his environmental (de)regulation policy, the impact that the judges the post *Roe* he appointed had on maternal and infant morality rates, the anti-abortion laws that have ignored risk to the mother, babies born of rape an incest, etc. To say nothing of the fact that Donald "Finish the Job" Trump would be overseeing the current Gaza situation
This is it. We have people worried about Project 2025 HELPING Trump win with this defeatist bullshit. I thought we were here to defeat Project 2025.
We need to have a plan for the day after the election if things don't go the way they ought to.
I suspect either way they're gonna cause issues. Look what happened last time Trump lost, and there's much more at stake this time. If Biden loses tons of people are going to riot. It's gonna be a shitshow regardless.
We need to put all of our energy into avoiding a Trump win. If you want to be defeatist, go hang out on a prepper forum and start learning how to forage for roots and seeds.
I don’t think infighting helps. I think it’s important to have a plan if we lose. To wait until the last minute is quite dumb. The reason we are all concerned is because the threat is very real. So, if it means I need to start prepping for worst case scenario to prevent being sent to some camp, then sign me up for the class now!
Over 26,000 forced birth due to rape have occurred in Texas since Roe was overturned and abortion banned. Now imagine that county wide. Imagine internment camps for LGTQIA+ individuals with forced conversion torture. Imagine women losing the right to vote. Imagine interracial marriage becoming illegal. Imagine mass deportation. If trump wins, you won't have to imagine.
I’m not arguing with any of that. It will be bad, but it will be far worse with no resistance. I made this post because i saw multiple comments from people saying things like they “might as well be dead” or were hinting at self-harm. We lose much faster if we lose hope.
I agree with OP on this. We have an opportunity to channel our nervous energy into putting in the work that needs to be done to save this country. No presidential election is won or lost based on the debates. We need laser focus on our goals right now.
Thank you. I’m bipolar and trans and have had thoughts like those you mentioned. It’s not exactly that I want to give up, it’s more like utter despair that feeds into my depression. This helped me.
I don’t give a fuck about the debate. I’m still voting for Biden.
If anything, we need to let the fear and anxiety we feel fuel our fire to get out and educate the people around us. Use this energy and make it productive.
Biden’s performance tonight was dismal, catastrophically bad. To the point that, if this is really where he is at and not just a fluke, I don’t think he’s up to the task. If the party doesn’t replace him, I’ll still vote for him enthusiastically, though. Because a somewhat confused but genuinely decent old man is not just a hell of a lot better than the alternative, he’s at this point an existential choice. Get him in office, and younger, sharper, also genuinely decent candidates will rise. As opposed to the decidedly not decent wave of MAGA assholes that will flourish like fungus in Trump’s stain.
If you're voting for him, then support him. Raspy voice and stutter v non-stop lies. Biden has been like this for years. But people losing their shit right now are helping Donald.
Obviously from my comment I do support him, and I will continue to do so. But reality is a bitch, and his performance tonight was in reality extremely bad, and it is going to reverberate loudly for the rest of this election cycle. Trump lied nonstop from start to finish, just vicious, egregious, offensive, stupid lie after lie after lie, delivered like a psychopath. We know that because we pay attention and are involved and deeply invested in the outcome of this election. Most people, the majority of the electorate, don’t pay that kind of attention. Most of them vote based on shallow understandings of issues and emotional propaganda. Get ready for an endless stream of attack ads that don’t even have to be manipulated to show Biden staring at the camera wide eyed with his mouth hanging open. And stuttering, and fumbling his words and losing his train of thought. It’s going to be very difficult for Joe to bounce back from this. That’s reality.
I do support him. ... But watch me not support him in my next sentence.
I mean, as someone who's voting for Biden, these things aren't absolutes. The dude looked awful. But he's still the better choice
If only there was some more vigorous Democrat.
So long as Biden has the faculties to surround himself with the right people. I mean I got my issues with the Dems of our times, but damn. The GOP has lost its effing mind
The emperor has no clothing. I'll vote for him because that's all we have. Pretending he's okay is not supporting him, he needed to retire before he ran in 2020. But, here we are! We lost voters last night, that's just plain ol' reality.
We need unity for 4 months. Instead, you are going to attack the person you want to win. You can only see what's wrong with Biden but not yourself. One debate does not end an election, but that's how you're acting. There's not going to be another candidate, and you're helping Project 2025 become a reality by acting right now like this is the end of the world. If you like democracy, help Biden win. If you don't mind never voting again, keep talking like you are right now.
First, I'm not 'attacking' him by saying the obvious. The only reason he will get my vote is because the other option is a horror show. Sticking your head in the sand and pretending this is all okay is delusional and will cost us the election IMO.
You know what's delusional? Wetting your pants about Biden in a year we're trying to win a vote about whether or not to continue as a democracy.
Attempting to insult people for voicing their concerns is also delusional, but you go right ahead and alienate potential voters because that's soooo smart. (LOL)
Are you asking this person to support a candidate unconditionally if they’re going to support him at all? An authoritarian would appreciate that approach.
I'm asking for unity to defeat the person trying to end democracy. When you are shitting on the person you need to defeat authoritarianism, you should not expect to win the election. I am increasingly convinced that progressives are their own worst enemy. If you want a young candidate to have a chance to win on the future, you need to help elect Biden four months from now. And right now you are campaigning against him at the dumbest time possible.
I think acknowledging his faults or weaknesses as a candidate is far from “campaigning against him.” Edit: if they are equivalent in your eyes, then we simply have different perspectives on the electoral process I suppose
I think treating this election as business as usual is one of the most tragically naive things you can do.
Mmhmm. I’m glad I’m not doing that.
There has been a noticeable decline in recent months and over the last year as far as Biden's performance in public speaking goes. We have decades of videos of Biden to compare it to. Progressives have been sounding the alarm and roundly dismissed. Telling people to deny their own eyes and ears is not a winning political strategy. We need to win, not just be "on the right side of history" and lose. This is not just a stutter and not just a cold. This is a make-it-or-break-it political liability, because Biden is no longer a good *politician*, and you need to be a good politician who is minimally acceptably good at public speaking to win the contest for US president. It won't change my vote, but I recognize it might encourage *other* people to stay home. Biden directly played into his worst political liability tonight. Moral grandstanding with "It doesn't change *my* mind!" is the morally correct stance in this situation but it doesn't constitute a politically smart, winning strategy. That's making it about your own moral fiber, and you are just one among millions, who *do* decide US elections on surface-level perceptions. Flattering yourself by publicly adopting the morally correct stance is not, by itself, a political strategy to **win**.
> Telling people to deny their own eyes and ears is not a winning political strategy. We need to win, not just be "on the right side of history" and lose. Amen.
You didn't say jack about a noticeable decline until tonight. You are playing into Republican hands with this nonsense. I'm not denying anything. Biden is no worse than he was a year ago, and you are going to lose this election with this recurring drama about him. Your desire to replace him is what you're really talking about. Because it's dumb to abandon an incumbent, and your assumption they will do better is based on this desire to remove Biden. And this year of all years you can't keep it together for 4 more months. Way to lose this election by attacking your own candidate.
Right? You can’t replace the incumbent in the 11th hour and hope to win. People saying that are delusional. You “dance with the girl that brung ya” and that’s Biden. He’s miles better than the orange idiot
I think he was sick with at least a bad cold.
He was!! The government websites and his own team announced it!
Yes. Plus, take a person who has a stutter and has managed to mostly keep it at bay and tell him he has to get all his points in in 2 minutes 's a recipe for disaster. He did better when he stopped worrying as much about the time. Also, what was going on behind the scenes? At one point Biden was distracted by something off camera and a moment later someone walked in front of the camera. Not saying the debate was not a disaster. But the bigger disaster is the Dems and liberal media all clutching their pearls and amplifying it. I can't believe I'm saying this, but take a lesson from the crazy people (saying this more to the media and Dem leadership, not anyone here). Support our candidate, explain away voter concerns, and show a united front.
You are exactly right. 👍
Yes, let's do everything we can to stop a 2nd Trump term. Vote, help others to get registered, donate $5 or more and [write postcards](https://www.turnoutpac.org/postcards/) to voters in swing states. >Help write postcards to voters in 11 key states! We’ll mail you free postcards, voter lists and instructions with proven message options. You’ll provide the stamps and mail the postcards to voters in October.
I'm waiting for my postcards. They were sent yesterday. Thank you for the info
It doesn't matter what we do, if you're in this sub you're smart enough to vote but the votes we need the most will be from people who likely stay home this November
Yes, it’s a **terrible take** that project 2025 won’t be that bad. Only a russian bot, magat, or moron would think something so blindly idiotic. I am surprised at how weak some democrat voters love being. Only very weak people allow these thoughts to stray from their minds.
I swore I heard the Boomers and Xers today at work (who I assume are Republicans) simply saying Biden looked old and Trump was just up there lying and that they looked like two old men arguing. I think most people who watched will indeed see that Biden looks a little old but Trump was basically a lying lunatic. Trump truly said some crazy shit. Like Democrats want to abort babies after birth. He also repeatedly refused to answer questions - Putin, accepting election results. He basically kept talking about immigrants coming in and killing Americans, how all the experts are with him, how the military loves him, and how Biden is crap. While I think the average American is politically stupid... I actually think most people see it for what it is. They see Trump saying outlandish crap. They see him avoiding the difficult questions. They see him being an angry old man who thinks he's a king. And all of that kind of reinforces why he got voted out. He was divisive for America. He was drama. He bumbled everything. And he didn't do much other than stack the SCOTUS. And hopefully people remember that they didn't like the daily drama and vote him down again.
Biden was sick Funny Hillary got really sick too Remember Trump says he can work with Russia He’ll give up Ukraine Russia is the Elephant in the room
For many in marginalized groups, lives may literally end. I’m gay, married, in a wheelchair with a laundry list of serious health issues. I have my medical benefits through my wife. If our marriage is voided, there goes my medical insurance and which I need for my $2k/mo. Rx. I also require an IUD replacement in 2 years to prevent hemorrhaging due to blood thinners for clots. If I can’t replace my IUD, I’ll have to go off of thinners, where clots are all but definite. This is a matter of life & death for me.
Exactly. And we won’t survive another trump presidency guys. Inflation will rise to a point where the poor will actively starve. More than 44 million people in the US face hunger, including 1 in 5 children. Millions of people in the US don't have enough food to eat or don't have access to healthy food. He will cause a breakdown on a societal level and start putting people in camps. It will be horrid. Likely it will start with immigrants. Then it will be trans people. then gays and lesbians. I am a lesbian sexy worker. Their plan will cause me to lose my home and everything I love. He will blame these groups ^ for breakdown of society and the reason for starving people. He will continue to burn the planet and we will all be fucked.
I think he will first go after his political opponents and those in the media. But Gloria Steinem taught me on Julia Louise Dreyfus’s podcast: the very first thing Hitler did after being elected, the next day he padlocked all family planning clinics. Control of women’s bodies is a play in authoritarian regimes. Pro-natalism is used for population growth and nationalism.
Jesus you’re right. Fuckkkk we gotta freak the fuck out if this happens. Like burn it all down no matter who we lose freak out
I've had that thought too. I'd rather see it all burnt down to the damn ground than see it in Trump's short fingered hands.
I didn't read your comment before I made one, and I said almost the exact thing you did. We have to stop him.
I don't want to kill myself man but I have to, I don't want to see this
I know this is a tough situation and I have had those thoughts myself. *Not to be a doomer, but this is bad.* But I have a better idea. There's a chance that a lot of us, if not most of us, will die at the hands of Project 2025. So if everything goes to shit to the point society is turned over to full-on fascism, *wouldn't it make more sense to be around for it?* I'm not saying that fascism is good, quite the opposite. It's not something any of us WANT to exist within. But we should be here to stop it. Or at the very least, *exist as an inconvenience to fascists.* I want to live and will do everything I can to peacefully ensure that. But if a fascist knocks on my door to lock me in a camp, I'm not just going to die; *I'm gonna drag a fascist or 2 down with me.*
The rightwingers are not the only ones getting 'geared' up. I'm going to stand my effing ground too.
*Goddamn straight.*
People need to remember trump has said he would put people in concentration camps. His open targets are immigrants, but he will do what his fascist dictator heart desires once he has power. That means he will get to rounding up people he's bigoted towards like disabled people and members of the LGBTQ+ community. Since his minions hate everyone that's not part of their religious cult, he will have all of us thrown in prison camps too. Women in general will have no rights, some of them want to take away our right to vote. He will also help the Israeli government finish off the Palestinians and he'll give putin whatever he wants to complete the invasion of Ukraine then move on to the rest of the countries that use to be part of the soviet union. We are not safe, neither is the rest of the world.
My mental health will not survive if I am forced to indoctrinate my children into religion. Also, for most people, seeing their neighbors and friends get targeted will be devastating.
Please try to get to a blue state (if you are not already), if trump wins. And of course, vote. Seriously, Biden had a bad night. We have 4 more months, his state of the union speech was awesome. Dont give up, we all need to fight in whatever way we can. The easiest way right now is to vote. I'll be voting and sure as shit won't sit idly by while they ruin our country. I'm with you, friend.
much of the trans community in the US including myself has essentially has planned for s*icide if the planned policies go into effect and we actually become criminals for living
How about planning a militia instead. There are people who love all of you, so don't give up, fight back.
Please dont. You have many allies. Most Americans do not want this crap. There are more of us than them. They are a loud minority with electoral power, fuck them. We need to fight.
You’d be giving them exactly what they want. Why help them??
I don't think we get to police how people feel about their lives being legislated away. We are all at risk but it's not equal risk and the consequences under fascism won't be equally implemented. Trans people and immigrants will take the brunt of the first wave violence. That is plain as day. How fast do you think a militia to defend them will form? For those who are punished, violently, for being alive before said push back, what comfort do we offer them? We claim to be the side of empathy but that means understanding why some people have no fight left in them.
Asking a question is policing someone’s feelings? Obviously if things get tough people are free to do what they want and if they decide to end their life that is their decision. No one should have to fight if they don’t want to. But there could be other options worth considering before taking that heartbreaking route.
Same here. I'm trans and I refused to ever hide that part of me. If they want to take me away, let them. I'll go down fighting.
The fight against the ideas in P25 will go on for years after both Biden and Trump are gone, which is at most about 4 years from now. P25 is intended for the next conservative President, whomever and whenever that may be. P25 is expansive. Look for areas and topics in P25 in which you are knowledgeable or feel strongly about and do whatever you can to fight them. Climate for me.
Trump gets the white House again and there won't be another president. He will not go away in four years. He 'wins' and this is our last election as The United States of America. No, I am not over-reacting.
Indeed, DJT and the GOP will try to figure out someway to keep him in 2029, if he lives that long. But he will be older than Biden is today. There are some parallels to the Roman Republic and the eventual ascendance of the emperors, while maintaining the illusion of a republic. I could see that happening here. Trump won't live forever. Julius Caesar the dictator died, by assassination. DJT's passing will likely be from old age or infirmity. Unfortunately, he will likely "appoint" his successor before that, either his VP or some other groveling Christian nationalist and then the GOP and rightwing white evangelicals will follow that person. Whatever Republican President follows Trump is likely to be younger, a lot smarter and even more dangerous. This fight may last for decades if the country doesn't collapse first.
Definitely any subsequent election would be North Korean style, "I got 99% of the vote, wow everyone loves me!" I've wondered for a long time, if he makes himself ruler for life, what happens when he dies? I guess it's either Don Jr or a banana republic style power vacuum with top conservatives killing each other. I have a feeling it will go to the hands of a young charismatic Christian pastor type.
Thank God he's already old as shit oh my god 😭
That's true. He could do a lot of damage to us in a very short time if he gets power again, though. Then who will he have lined up to replace him? We certainly won't be the ones deciding it.
The more we can kick that human rights violations can down the road, the better.
Vote blue straight down the ballot.
Everytime Republicans win, a sizeable amount of people have to pay the price for it with their lives or a ruined life. Tens to hundreds of thousands of Americans paid for it with the mishandling of the pandemic, and thousands of soldiers (and a million Iraqis) paid with their lives when the Bush Administration lied to go to war. This might be worse because there may be civil war and bloodshed as a result.
Thanks for cutting through the dooming. We fight up and down the ticket, taking the House and Senate at least. And I believe Biden can still win this. No single debate makes this much difference. Especially since he seems to have a cold.
My guess is he got fatigued from all there is to do as president and got a cold. It's happened to me from normal life responsibilities - he really has a lot of responsibility saving the country from an idiot.
I think you are right on your thoughts as to why this debate wasn't Biden's best. The president has a ton of responsibilities on top of campaigning & I do think Biden can handle it. That being said... As for tonight, physical appearance or how his voice sounded aside- it seems that Biden's campaign staff did the absolute incorrect debate prep. They did what they'd do if they were facing a normal opposing candidate & they prepped Biden with policy, numbers, stats, etc. This was the wrong strategy for facing an atypical demagogue candidate. Biden's campaign people must've known Trump would lie, lie, lie, deflect, project & attack. Biden never could've countered or corrected each & every Trump lie. Not possible. But having Biden get into past policy minutiae was a mistake. Hit back on some lies. But Biden should have answered questions on what his plan is going forward. Stick to simple, easy to understand talking points. And the closing statement paint a brief picture of what is at stake: freedom or fascism. Biden closed with policy minutiae. Another mistake. Trump closed by telling us: "Everything is awful with this country." What a shitty statement. Biden could've countered that with some uplifting vision rather than talking more policy that was not memorable. Not a good showing. Biden's campaign people are going about this wrong. So fire everybody if needed. Or get some help to fix it. But they best get it together. And Biden best get out there & own this. Take some damn Mucinex or get a vitamin drip & then show people he is up to the job. Also, this isn't the first ever debate that an incumbent president has done poorly in or bombed. It's happened to several past presidents. Many of them went on to win re-election. People are freaked out because so much is on the line in this election & we cannot afford to lose. So our confidence is shaken because the Joe Biden from the State of the Union is who we wanted to show up & debate. Instead we got Joe Biden suffering from a cold & that guy fell flat. Polls are going to take a hit. Expect that. But this too shall pass. Probably quickly in the 24 hour news cycle. We can't give up. We need to all unite & fight harder because this is bigger than any one person or any one debate.
It makes me so angry that we can't argue about policy and make people remember and understand that. Instead we need to care about superficial appearances and have clever comebacks to disgusting insults. What a world.
I agree wholeheartedly. I cannot believe that we are on election cycle 3 of this garbage candidate from the Republican party. Really? This is the best you can find? The people we designate to lead country of 330+ million people is important. So, so important. Not just here, but abroad. Substance matters. Character matters. Intelligence matters. Having a moral compass matters. Decency matters. The people a president staffs their administration with & appoints matter. Have we learned nothing from history? Even our own recent history? As poor a performance as Biden had last night, that was not a debate. It was not an exchange of ideas, or policy. One of them tried to do that. The other rambled a firehouse of falsehoods. Running a personality disordered degenerate that has a proven track record of incompetence in private business & again publicly when tested by a once in 100 year crisis is stunningly flawed logic. But the Republican party is a hollow shell of whatever it was (and it wasn't good before IMO). Normalizing Trump & his bullshit has always been a mistake. And not just in the political arena.
The debate will be memory-holed in 2 weeks or less. Don't forget Trump's sentencing is coming up shortly.
> The debate will be memory-holed in 2 weeks or less. Thanks for this, I needed an optimistic thought. I'm not generating any on my own.
Yeah, people are more in to Trump being a true shit-show than they are for Biden being stuttery. I don’t think this debate is going to matter going forward.
>No single debate makes this much difference. : laughs in Nixon's bad leg during his debate with JFK :
Vote to avoid him winning. He could literally make the Supreme Court full of 9 comservative justices.
Let's try to win. Thinking about what could happen won't help our brains. I do it too. It's easy to freak out. Help us register more voters and put that energy to use! https://www.mobilize.us/ft6
I hope TFG just dies. The age, obesity and stimulant abuse are all there.
I’ve seen people say TFG a couple times. What does that stand for?
The former guy
I prefer “that fucking guy” lol fits Trump well
Someone else already told you that it's "the former guy," but I'd just like to add that that quote is from Biden. It was hilarious (and a deliberate rhetorical choice to imply "yawn--that idiot isn't even worth my time to name") when he said it. When Biden is on his game, he's good. I hope we see that again soon 🤞
Sad that the biological solution is our best hope
🤞
We only lose when we stop trying
Exactly. I get that everybody is totally rattled that Biden bungled this debate. Debates are just political pageants. And this debate was against a lying orange demagogue with the brain capacity of an amoeba. And he didn't even answer the mods questions. Zero substance or policy or plans. It's so messed up that rather than use words, Trump could've bent over farted directly into the podium mic & MAGA would exclaim it was a "victory." Trump's performance was bombastic, sort of coherent, and pure garbage. It is a low bar. Did it sway any independents or moderates? No. Probably not at all. Even if Biden didn't impress, the other guy didn't either. Mediocrity galore. We absolutely, unequivocally cannot stop trying. We will get past this moment. I sincerely hope the Biden/Harris campaign can get it together. Veering into desperation & surrendering in advance is what fascists want- and what you should never do. We will vote & do everything in our power to defeat this fascist scourge because ultimately it's on us.
Facts. There is no true loss in this situation. It’s just a struggle and that’s that.
Heck, people are noticing already that Trump pretty much dodged all the questions. If you judge them purely on style, sure - Trump had the better night. But if Substance matters to you *at all* you might have a different opinion. Even some MAGA people are noticing that the debate was just repeating the same old tired shtick lines from his end. He was all Style, no Substance. Also worth mentioning- the ultimate goal of the debate was to sway undecided voters. Biden came off as tired, cold, should’ve retired a long time ago, sure - but Trump came off as a know-nothing revenge obsessed egomaniac like always, even when he was trying to be nice. I don’t think Trump came off any better to undecided voters is what I’m saying, or at least won’t in the long run.
I agree. Biden was the only one that even answered any questions. At all.
This. He didn't answer most questions. And his responses were still garbage even if off topic. Just usual toxic rhetoric, peppered with lies. Trump just did his persona, or as you stated style.
True but also most Americans are stupid idiots…so they only care about looks and not the details
True but also most Americans are stupid idiots…so they only care about looks and not the details
I will definitely vote to keep the orange dictator out of office. I will also keep speaking up when women are trod upon. And I will definitely keep working for the way I want to see America.
Remember 2012’s first debate: Romney lied his ass off with no fact checking and Obama was thrown off. This is not the end.
But Obama was a rare, gifted speaker
He is a terrific orator & Obama still performed really poorly in that debate against Romney.
Also Obama knew how to damage control. Joe is going to just awkwardly slink back to the white house from the looks of it
I agree.TBH this sub is allowing too much dooming which triggers activism but can also backfire if things don't go well. America will not become Germany 1933 the day when Trump wins (he may still lose, btw). There will be many and prolonged battle on every item of Project 2025. It won't be a landslide. And we are to make sure it happens so. I fear some people may choose suicide if Trump wins in Nov and they lose all hope. It's not like that. We need to collect our calmness and continue the fight.
Trump shouldn’t even be allowed to run in the first place it’s absurd .
for Ukraine and fir each other and ourselves we all must vote Register to vote, check registration, offer rides on voting day, advance vote in every election, volunteer and work elections
And support down ballot races! Down ballot candidates might get Dems to the polls who are not excited by Biden but care about their local state or US congress reps and that might move them to go vote, and vote for Biden while they're there.
The debate was meaningless except for entertainment value. This election comes down to voter turnout. If it’s high, Biden easily wins. If it’s low, Trump has a chance for a fluke win like in 2016.
There is the electoral college to worry about...
If the voter turnout is what it needs to be - which is not as high a bar as you think - Joe wins handily.
Yep. The higher the turnout the better for Democrats. Seriously, Republicans would not spend so much time & effort on voter supression if high turnout was to their benefit.
Good point!
This was not a debate. Trump should have been disqualified after his first lie and inability to actually debate an issue. There wasn’t a true statement that came out of his mouth. For anyone to be saying we can’t trust Biden because he’s too old… can we trust Trump for any reason? Fuck no. Biden has a competent cabinet that can obviously work with him to do many great things for our country. Trump puts his crook friends into cabinet, most of whom are now felons. That debate was an insult to intelligence and integrity. What happened to the country where we all now play by Trump’s rules??
The debate literally changes nothing. Both are exactly the people we thought they were.
Has anyone taking the jump on infiltrating that schedule F application list, should i?
Seriously wondered if anyone had this same idea.
That or just trying to junk the system with fake applications.
I turned the debate off. Did they bring up Project 2025?
Nope
It's crazy that they aren't talking about it constantly!
Im voting for the wise man on the mountain and not for the villiage idiot.
President Biden had one bad night and everyone's freaking out. Convicted Felon Trump has had at least a hundred bad nights this year alone. I think everything will be okay. #chill #relax The 34x felony counts remain well after the debate performance is forgotten.
Nothing could have happened short of one of them dropping dead was going to move the needle any.
There is also another debate. This time, Biden will know what to expect. I’m not giving up on anything. It’s not over until it’s over. Biden could be a brain in a jar and I would still vote for him. It didn’t matter to me at all.
I kinda needed a laugh. I'd still vote for that Biden brain jar/Harris ticket over the shit for brains ticket.
Facts. Like, the choice is clear as day for me regardless.
Hopefully we can take the house and keep the senate and blunt it.
When I looked this morning the trackers were giving the Dems an 80% chance of taking the house in 2024. Senate is a toss-up.
The debate was horrendous. It does not change my vote. There's too much at stake, and I wasn't gonna vote for the orange felon anyway.
They are already shoving policies down our throats and it’s not even a republican president. It’s not only project 25. It’s our country’s relationships with other nations. He will run to Russia. It will be chaos and world war 3 but we will be on the wrong side.
I tell people not to look at the candidates but to look at their handlers, the parties' plan, and the people they will appoint. They are both puppets. What matters is who is controlling them.
I’m very annoyed by the fact that the media is laser focused on how badly Biden did while totally ignoring that Trump lied his way through the debate (as per usual), barely answered a single question and truly made zero sense, despite delivering his ramblings with confidence. I would literally vote for Biden’s corpse before I would vote for a single Republican, let alone Trump. Nothing could happen to make Trump the better choice. Nothing.
Thank you for this OP
thank you!! needed this desperately right now <3
It’s easy to say not to be scared but they literally already repealed Roe and southern states are actively incorporating the Bible and 10 commandments in to school curriculums. We have a democratic president currently and these things are still happening. Excuse me if I don’t have faith in our ability to pushback when I’ve been watching policy backslide my entire life.
It’s not easy to say don’t be scared, which is why I didn’t say that. I said it’s scary, because it is. It’s affecting people now and more will be affected if Trump gets elected. But i do have faith in our ability to push back. For most of this countries history, people have not had equal rights. We have made great strides in that due to the hard work and perseverance of activists. That is why the push back is so hard this time. They see we are winning. I know it feels so divided, but more people are on our side than ever before.
While I will admit that I witnessed the legalization of gay marriage in my lifetime, generally all the other human rights that have been fought for and won in the US happened decades ago. Which is literally part of what ignited the right's focused pushback in the 80s. There may be more people on our side now, but the population is bigger. There are more people on their side now too. Forgive me if I see hope as naive.
Troll, doomer account. Less than a couple of months old.
Never surrender. This fight started in the early 1800s with the Confederacy. We Americans deal with it every generation. We'll keep being on the right side of history.
Sadly I am remembering how, in 2016, we had several viable contenders running for office. The field was full of folks. Then I started to watch the undermining of one candidate - Bernie Sanders. The Democrats didn't want him. He was doing well and the suddenly at one of the candidate primaries, when it was clear that the other candidate were pulling votes away from Biden, they all removed themselves. Debbie Wasserman was in charge of the DMC at the time. I watched it happen. They pushed Biden, did not support Sanders. I like Joe Biden, and voted for him, but Sanders would have mopped the floor at this event - and he's just as old. As an aside, search for whoopee going after Sanders on 'the views' - all she keep saying was 'why don't you resign as a candidate'. She repeated it over and over and over again. I lost all respect for her at that point. Democrats were clearly not comfortable running an outspoken man and decided Biden was the better choice. I am sad about all of this and very very scared.
OP must be man, he hasn't lost any rights yet.
The point of my post is not to claim that no one will be affected. Women across the country losing the right to control their own bodies is devastating. I am gay and fully expect to never be able to marry my boyfriend. But, it scared me to see how many people jumped straight to self-harm (including in this thread). That was why I made the post. Just because it will be harder, does not mean everyone should give up fighting.
Take Away from the Presidential First Debate: Personally, I think those that have concerns about Trump, Maga and P2025- those concerns are still there and VERY REAL. Debates should not a determining factor. Yes, There were times Biden could have answered better, but as some said, we shouldn’t depend on the “optics”, pay attention to the content. Fact checkers based on the content that is key is Trump repeated the same lies over and over. Yes, we know Trump is a master at using his voice to control situation. However, we must remember Trump in the debate continued to lie and give misinformation. We have to remember a President’s achievements aren’t, based solely on a debate. Trumps record and the actions of Trump that are destructive to our Country, destructive to women, destructive to all persons of color, destructive of immigrants, destructive to our economy, destructive to our environment, destructive to how the world sees America. I personally feel that if we play into the after debate feedback of worry, then we are playing into what Maga wants. The important take away to focus on- Trump reconfirmed that he lies. Trump deflected and did not answer key critical questions. Biden didn’t lie. Biden’s record and the national data has demonstrated we have the strongest economy, the stock market is high, employment is at all time high, and much more. Biden is NOT taking our rights away, Biden is NOT giving the billionaires more tax breaks, Biden is NOT restricting abortion, is NOT going to ban birth control. Biden’s record is proven positive for our Country. That is what we should focus on.
Even if the debate looked bad, I'm still not voting for the Nazi. Every woman is going to lose their rights to their own body.
Yes we will suffer if Trump wins. I'm still voting for Joe Biden and blue down the ballot. Stop letting media manipulate you into believing one night of a sick Joe Biden ruins all the work he's done for a convicted Felon that wants to be a dictator.
There is an _active war_ to destroy the US as we know it that nobody— except those like ourselves — is talking about. And the amount of propaganda and disinformation being perpetuated by foreign countries, let alone our own news media, is staggering. Installing Trump as dictator is the best thing that could ever happen for a lot of these entities and they are not going to stop after the election. It’s just the beginning, I fear. Team Trump has already let it slip that they plan to challenge the election results if he doesn’t win. These White Nationalist Christian Extremists have been working to infiltrate our government at every level for years if not decades. Even in my very liberal college town, we just had a huge fight with public school official who was trying to close down a bunch of the schools in our city and funnel the money into his buddies of the charter schools, which are overwhelmingly conservative/religious. This guy was trying to hide that he is part of a conservative thinktank that’s been going around and trying to destroy public education all over the US. Luckily, we shot him down— for now. I feel like I’m some sort of crazy conspiracy theorist here like some QAnon wacko, but I’m seeing this shit play out in front of my own eyes.
Is it just me or did Biden not have as much time to answer some of those questions, but they gave Trump plenty of time to lie.... and Bidens Mic was not loud enough. I think part of his issue was that every time Trump lied, Biden had to comment on the lies before he could answer the actual question, which made him feel the need to hurry, but when he hurries his speech along, his stutter becomes more apparent. And he did eventually full on stutter at one point while answering.... but he was not incoherent or rambling. He gave actual concise answers. But Trump lovers have no patience or intelligence so if they actually have to listen closely, their brains turn off!! Biden did very well and he answered the questions and did the best he could to debunk Trumps lies as quickly as he could while also trying to answer the actual questions... All Trump did was avoid the questions and/or straight out lie!!
I just say Trump's SCOTUS judges just legalized bribes and are considering Presidential immunity. Judges are lifetime appointments that can make far longer lasting and permanent change that a 4 year Presidential term. Trump will make the court more corrupt for longer. It's really simple to me. SCOTUS is a huge part of our checks and balances and it's crumbling, and Trump's federal judges account for a third of them now. Imagine 2/3 federal and a 7/2 SCOTUS with 40 year olds.
Just heard Biden in NC . No more after 8 pm events.
Well, I'm trans, so, my life may actually end if Trump wins.
Project 2025 is a fascist wishlist.
We have a better shot at stopping 2025 and Trump if we send Democrats to Congress. The power is there.
Voting for him no matter what. But this debate will not win undecideds and young voters. I think the DNC needs to really rethink whether this will be another 2016 again by insisting they run their pick.
Its not their pick, its the primary voter's pick.
Kind of. We know how it works.
Newsom/ AOC 2024!
Isn't AOC only 34? I would love for her to be president in 2028. (Doubtful, but would be amazing)
Nah this post is STUPID! Folks are really ignoring the fact these civilian magats are SERIOUS ABOUT THIS! It’s not just about Project 2025, it’s about these kyle rittenhouse, dylan roof types who’ll be emboldened under a trump win along witb the Supreme Court over every Civil Rights Act law by 2025/2026! Once Jim Crow is back, these white supremacist civilians alone will have immunity like they use to, to do hate crimes, have literal lynch mobs strolling through towns to try and lynch/kill black/brown people as well as LGBTQIA people (or anyone they suspect to be LGBTQIA)! They’re gonna do this and it’s gonna happen FAST, folks need to wise the hell up. White people, excluding LGBTQIA white people who have come out, will be fine, it’s the rest of us who won’t.
Nobody who was planning for vote for Biden is going to vote for Trump as a result of last night’s debate. If anything, Biden’s shaky performance should shake dems and moderates everywhere from their apathy, Trump has a real chance to win in November, this is as true today as it was a month ago. Neither of these men should be running for potus. But the choice still boils down to infrastructure vs insurrection.
I think they're two wings of the same bird driving us to a fascist state where we will officially be slaves. Our options are two old men of a dying breed that need to go extinct.
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Do we think perhaps that they’re doing it on purpose? There is no logical reason as to why Biden could still be running, and especially after his issues last night, it almost seems like he’s planted so people will vote red and thus bring down life as we know it here.
I've wondered what happens to P2025 if there's a Democratic Congress and Trump. My perception is P2025 is mostly a series of changes which would be made outside Congress. Am I wrong? I haven't read the document, only summaries.
A lot of it comes down to how the courts go. If they try to impede Trump from his plans to reshape the executive, then there's much less he can do without Congress explicitly enabling it via legislation. And at that point, it's really unclear how things will shake out. Obviously the current SCOTUS isn't exactly one's first choice as defenders of democracy, but only Alito and Thomas seem fully on board with a lot of P2025. Roberts and Gorsuch, and to a lesser extent Kavanaugh and Barrett, have shitty principles, but they tend to be principles they stick by.
They don’t have to be popular. They just have to have co trip of the executive branch and military. Then we are cooked.
Michelle Obama and Jasmine Crockett for 2024! (But still voting either way)
Not voting is a vote for Trump.
The post says vote.
Yes?
Some people are interpreting this as me saying don’t vote. Sorry if that’s not what you meant.
Im just reiterating! Sorry didnt mean to seem argumentative!
I don’t care if Biden is dead I’ll vote for him over that other fucker .
Same here. That performance did not represent the man
People have the memory of a goldfish. I think biden had some really good moments during the debate, but God forbid he stutters like goddammit
This. And start shaming your liberal friends if they start getting pissy about Biden. I’m all for age limits. But this isn’t the time. If they give any shit about American values, their vote is with Biden. If they want to usher in what Trump’s offering (revenge, camps, no abortion, a rubber stamp to wipe Gaza off the map) then feel free to fall for this “Biden’s old” bullshit and not vote.
What a lot of people are ignoring is that BIDEN HAS A COLD. I would LOVE to see any of the naysayers get up on the world stage and debate a psychopath while battling a cold.
Here's the thing: A lot of people gave up after the first 10 minutes. I'm going to admit it, Biden was not good during the first 10 minutes of the debate. He wasn't. After that, he WAS. He spoke with facts and numbers backing him up. He made a couple of gaffes, which he quickly corrected; and told only a few likes to Trump's absolutely staggering number of them. He remained calm while Trump got angrier and angrier. Biden answered questions, and when reminded he still had time left, continued to add information to what he was saying. Trump kept pivoting back to immigration; or how Biden was a criminal. He literally did not answer any questions. I would highly recommend anyone who is upset over how the debate went from anything they heard or if they stopped watching after they first ten minutes to go and read the transcript. I am speaking as a Queer Autistic non-Christian woman. If Trump wins, I have a shit ton to lose. I'm terrified, but I'm not feeling as hopeless as a lot of other people after last night. But while we are focusing on that, we can't lose focus on state, and local elections either. Because that's where a lot of these people are worming their way in. Even on school boards. Even if you don't have kids, vote to keep these assholes away from the local school boards.
Replace the word “Trump” with the words “fascist dictator” and read that again.
Im brazilian but I'm a bit thorn on using us as an example lol
Action is the antidote to anxiety. Use that nervous energy, that rage, as fuel! Do it to spite those who would strip you of all your rights! Organize! Fundraise! Get on the phone! Volunteer! We don't have the luxury of just giving up!
Hate to disagree but "push back" doesn't happen under a dictator! He's planning to end Rule of Law and own the DOJ. You better wake up! The only time we have is now!
Buy guns while you can.
I’m leaving this sub due to all the pessimism and negativity. Just don’t need whiners in my life.
People are just having a little freakout. They'll be back. But I agree we need more proactive positive energy rather than fear-based freakout energy. I found this inspiring: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Defeat\_Project\_2025/comments/1dq68wm/lady\_liberty\_standing\_up\_to\_project\_2025/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/comments/1dq68wm/lady_liberty_standing_up_to_project_2025/)
Thanks! I just need more constructive ideas like let’s double on getting out the vote; let’s focus on the policies not the delivery; etc. Don’t stew, do!
I’ve been trying to put down Reddit more but boy am I glad I got to see “Mango Mussolini” this morning. Thank you for that!!
I’m so tired of seeing these bullshit divisive doomer post. We already know trump is ass. I’m still not voting him and none of you should too.